Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Hallo, On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:43 PM, Ivan Raikov ivan.g.rai...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently, there is also a Common Lisp implementation of readline (MIT-licensed): http://common-lisp.net/project/linedit/ It looks baroque, but perhaps bits and pieces can be scavenged for a minimal Chicken readline. It would probably be easier to steal something from Gambit-C's gsi. -- -alex http://www.artisancoder.com/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Dear Chickeneers, with the workshop having been yesterday I thought I'd report back on how it went. First of all I'd like to thank the CCC Cologne for providing the space and equipment for the workshop, it's always nice to be a guest in your rooms. Also thanks to all participants for attending despite the very nice weather -- I was a bit afraid that I'd spend the afternoon with only one or two people but after all about 15 showed up which was even more than I expected! I started the meeting by giving an introductionary talk about Lisp and its history which took about an hour (the slides are available at http://moritz.twoticketsplease.de/files/lisp.pdf). Afterwards I encouraged everyone to try for themselves what was heard before. Most people chose Chicken as their Lisp since that was what I presented and I could offer the most substantial help for, of course :-) This mostly went very well and I could resolve most issues that arose (we even managed to get Chicken running on a Windows 7 machine with the help of the excellent chicken-iup installer). A few people were inclined to give Emacs a try after I quickly demonstrated how paredit and SLIME integration really help writing parenthesized code. One thing almost every participant wondered about was that csi didn't provide readline support out of the box. Installing and configuring the readline egg is easy (although we had serious trouble to install libreadline on one of the OS X machines, evantually gave up and just went with the linenoise egg) but it seems to be considered common-place and in fact most other interactive interpreters come with some readline-like support by default. Maybe it's worth investigating what could be done about that at the Chicken Weekend! After a while everyone was up and running and started hacking away: familiarizing themselves with the syntax, trying to port some code they had written in other languages, solving Project Euler problems etc. The test egg was enjoyed by a few attendees and some even gave coops a spin (I pointed them to Christian's excellent introductionary article about it at http://pestilenz.org/~ckeen/blog/posts/oo-in-scheme.html which did quite a good job of explaining the basic concepts). I had the general impression that most people really tried to understand what I was trying to present at the beginning - what is so special about Lisp and why it is so much fun to program. After 5 hours of hacking and some intensive discussion I was pretty exhausted; but seeing that it seemed to have caught on for at least some participants more than made up for it :-) Some people approached me to institute some kind of Lisp user group for meeting regularly which I am seriously considering. More on that soon! Also, I got invited to hold the workshop again at the CCC FFM (https://ccc-ffm.de/) in the near future. I'll let you know if and when. Thanks for the invitation! Also, if anyone would like to do something like this in their area, feel free to contact me about it and/or re-use my presentation material! All the best Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Moritz Heidkamp scripsit: One thing almost every participant wondered about was that csi didn't provide readline support out of the box. The answer is that supplying readline by default would require csi to be released under the GPL. There are two ways around this problem that I can think of: 1) We could use editline (aka libedit) by default rather than readline. 2) We could supply two versions of the csi main program, one with readline support under the GPL, and one without under the BSD. This is what Pure http://pure-lang.googlecode.com does. It has to be done by the copyright holder, because a licensee can't just remove the feature from a program that requires it to be under the GPL and make it not GPL any more, but the licensor can violate their own license if they want. -- John Cowan co...@ccil.org http://www.ccil.org/~cowan One time I called in to the central system and started working on a big thick 'sed' and 'awk' heavy duty data bashing script. One of the geologists came by, looked over my shoulder and said 'Oh, that happens to me too. Try hanging up and phoning in again.' --Beverly Erlebacher ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
* John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org [110313 21:33]: Moritz Heidkamp scripsit: One thing almost every participant wondered about was that csi didn't provide readline support out of the box. The answer is that supplying readline by default would require csi to be released under the GPL. There are two ways around this problem that I can think of: 1) We could use editline (aka libedit) by default rather than readline. 2) We could supply two versions of the csi main program, one with readline support under the GPL, and one without under the BSD. This is what Pure http://pure-lang.googlecode.com does. It has to be done by the copyright holder, because a licensee can't just remove the feature from a program that requires it to be under the GPL and make it not GPL any more, but the licensor can violate their own license if they want. These are all valid points. I would like to add some already existing possibilities: 1. external tools like rlwrap 2. the readline egg 3. the linenoise egg I am also not sure if we break some existing code by enabling a unit that fiddles with stdin by default. Kind regards, Christian ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
In Solaris 10, you can use enhance which was built using the tecla library( http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~mcs/tecla/index.html) On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Christian Kellermann ck...@pestilenz.orgwrote: * John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org [110313 21:33]: Moritz Heidkamp scripsit: One thing almost every participant wondered about was that csi didn't provide readline support out of the box. The answer is that supplying readline by default would require csi to be released under the GPL. There are two ways around this problem that I can think of: 1) We could use editline (aka libedit) by default rather than readline. 2) We could supply two versions of the csi main program, one with readline support under the GPL, and one without under the BSD. This is what Pure http://pure-lang.googlecode.com does. It has to be done by the copyright holder, because a licensee can't just remove the feature from a program that requires it to be under the GPL and make it not GPL any more, but the licensor can violate their own license if they want. These are all valid points. I would like to add some already existing possibilities: 1. external tools like rlwrap 2. the readline egg 3. the linenoise egg I am also not sure if we break some existing code by enabling a unit that fiddles with stdin by default. Kind regards, Christian ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
We should not limit ourselves to libraries written in C! Ocaml has the same issue with readline, since it uses a funky French license, and one of their solutions is ledit, an rlwrap-like program implemented entirely in Ocaml. Chicken already has all the bindings to the core C I/O functions, so it might not be too much work to implement some minimal command-line history. -Ivan John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: Moritz Heidkamp scripsit: One thing almost every participant wondered about was that csi didn't provide readline support out of the box. The answer is that supplying readline by default would require csi to be released under the GPL. There are two ways around this problem that I can think of: 1) We could use editline (aka libedit) by default rather than readline. 2) We could supply two versions of the csi main program, one with readline support under the GPL, and one without under the BSD. This is what Pure http://pure-lang.googlecode.com does. It has to be done by the copyright holder, because a licensee can't just remove the feature from a program that requires it to be under the GPL and make it not GPL any more, but the licensor can violate their own license if they want. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Apparently, there is also a Common Lisp implementation of readline (MIT-licensed): http://common-lisp.net/project/linedit/ It looks baroque, but perhaps bits and pieces can be scavenged for a minimal Chicken readline. -Ivan John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: 1) We could use editline (aka libedit) by default rather than readline. 2) We could supply two versions of the csi main program, one with readline support under the GPL, and one without under the BSD. This is what Pure http://pure-lang.googlecode.com does. It has to be done by the copyright holder, because a licensee can't just remove the feature from a program that requires it to be under the GPL and make it not GPL any more, but the licensor can violate their own license if they want. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Chicken already has all the bindings to the core C I/O functions, so it might not be too much work to implement some minimal command-line history. -Ivan Keep in mind, though, that readline provides a lot more than just history (like completion, or my beloved vi mode...). Seems like a lot of functionality to reinvent IMO... Though perhaps editline or linenoise provide these? Evan ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Of course, you will always be able to install the readline egg. This is about providing minimal readline functionality to new users who don't know yet about chicken-install, and who run csi expecting to have command history and perhaps completion available to them. I don't think we have to reinvent all of the readline functionality. -Ivan Evan Hanson vnh...@gmail.com writes: Chicken already has all the bindings to the core C I/O functions, so it might not be too much work to implement some minimal command-line history. -Ivan Keep in mind, though, that readline provides a lot more than just history (like completion, or my beloved vi mode...). Seems like a lot of functionality to reinvent IMO... Though perhaps editline or linenoise provide these? Evan ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] German Lisp Workshop at the CCC in Cologne
Fellow Chickenauts, I would like to point the attention of our German readers to the Chaos Computer Club Cologne Café taking place next Saturday in (you guessed it) Cologne, Germany. Yours truly will talk a bit about the history and merits of Lisp in general and then dive into a Chicken powered hands-on part. Participation is free, a detailed announcement can be found at http://koeln.ccc.de/updates/2011-03-05_C5_Lisp.xml Thanks for your attention, looking forward to seeing you there Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
