[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-16 Thread Mike Morearty
Okay, finally got around to starting this discussion on mozilla
plugin-futures.

- Mike



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
 does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
 manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
 only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
 plugin.


 right


 On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins
 are native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving
 a plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
 permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
 anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
 it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
 API.


 agreed





 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.comwrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek 
 j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


 I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I
 know is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect 
 that
 when Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape
 plugins, or (b) just Flash, and enabled it.


 We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the
 same algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
 plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
 installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.



 As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
 installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
 plugin version.






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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Adam Barth

You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
--disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

Adam


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
 team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
 work even if Chrome is already running.

 Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
 for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
 So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
 click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
 Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
 Builder.

 Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
 The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
 blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
 next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).

 The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
 (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
 message:

    The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
    Would you like to stop it?

 Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
 so.

 I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
 chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
 Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
 Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
 suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
 over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
 tell Chrome to use this flag.)

 I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
 apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
 all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
 Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
 currently implemented as a global setting.

 Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
 I log an enhancement request?

 Thanks,

  - Mike Morearty
    Sr. Computer Scienstist
    Adobe Systems Inc.

 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Morearty
We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
--disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
--disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
--disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
flag for just that one tab.

Thanks!  - Mike


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
  team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
  work even if Chrome is already running.
 
  Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
  for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
  So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
  click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
  Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
  Builder.
 
  Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
  The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
  blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
  next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 
  The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
  (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
  message:
 
 The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
 Would you like to stop it?
 
  Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
  so.
 
  I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
  chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
  Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
  Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
  suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
  over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
  tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 
  I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
  apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
  all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
  Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
  currently implemented as a global setting.
 
  Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
  I log an enhancement request?
 
  Thanks,
 
   - Mike Morearty
 Sr. Computer Scienstist
 Adobe Systems Inc.
 
   
 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
 The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
 blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
 next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).

 The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
 (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
 message:

The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
Would you like to stop it?

 Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
 so.

 I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
 chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
 Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
 Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
 suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
 over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
 tell Chrome to use this flag.)

 I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
 apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
 all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
 Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
 currently implemented as a global setting.

 Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
 I log an enhancement request?


I have the same problem in the GWT Development Mode plugin.  You could set a
breakpoint in your Java code in Eclipse, and as far as the browser sees the
NPAPI plugin is just hanging until the server lets it continue.
It seems like this might be a feature that a number of plugins would like to
control, yet you want to make sure it isn't abused by malicious plugins.
 What about an API call to disable/re-enable it, and control access to that
API with permissions in the manifest?

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Darin Fisher
I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
 Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
-Darin

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
 potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
 in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
 would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
 tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
 would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
 our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

 For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
 --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
 explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
 --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
 also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
 control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
 --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
 flag for just that one tab.

 Thanks!  - Mike



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
  team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
  work even if Chrome is already running.
 
  Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
  for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
  So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
  click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
  Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
  Builder.
 
  Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
  The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
  blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
  next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 
  The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
  (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
  message:
 
 The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
 Would you like to stop it?
 
  Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
  so.
 
  I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
  chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
  Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
  Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
  suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
  over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
  tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 
  I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
  apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
  all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
  Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
  currently implemented as a global setting.
 
  Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
  I log an enhancement request?
 
  Thanks,
 
   - Mike Morearty
 Sr. Computer Scienstist
 Adobe Systems Inc.
 
  
 



 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Evan Martin

I guess there's a precedent in the inspector where you can enable
various development-related bits (like enable resource tracking).
Maybe there's a reasonable place to hook in UI for that there.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:
 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
 -Darin

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
 potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
 in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
 would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
 tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
 would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
 our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

 For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
 --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
 explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
 --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
 also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
 control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
 --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
 flag for just that one tab.

 Thanks!  - Mike


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
  team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
  work even if Chrome is already running.
 
  Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
  for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
  So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
  click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
  Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
  Builder.
 
  Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
  The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
  blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
  next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 
  The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
  (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
  message:
 
     The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
     Would you like to stop it?
 
  Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
  so.
 
  I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
  chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
  Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
  Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
  suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
  over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
  tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 
  I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
  apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
  all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
  Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
  currently implemented as a global setting.
 
  Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
  I log an enhancement request?
 
  Thanks,
 
   - Mike Morearty
     Sr. Computer Scienstist
     Adobe Systems Inc.
 
  
 





 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Erik Kay

Also, the inspector already disables the hang monitor dynamically when
it stops at a breakpoint since the renderer is stopped at that point,
so this may just be a case of exposing this on-off switch via some
API.

Erik


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Evan Martin e...@chromium.org wrote:

 I guess there's a precedent in the inspector where you can enable
 various development-related bits (like enable resource tracking).
 Maybe there's a reasonable place to hook in UI for that there.

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:
 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
 -Darin

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
 potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
 in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
 would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
 tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
 would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
 our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

 For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
 --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
 explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
 --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
 also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
 control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
 --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
 flag for just that one tab.

 Thanks!  - Mike


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
  team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
  work even if Chrome is already running.
 
  Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
  for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
  So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
  click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
  Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
  Builder.
 
  Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
  The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
  blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
  next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 
  The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
  (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
  message:
 
     The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
     Would you like to stop it?
 
  Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
  so.
 
  I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
  chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
  Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
  Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
  suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
  over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
  tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 
  I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
  apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
  all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
  Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
  currently implemented as a global setting.
 
  Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
  I log an enhancement request?
 
  Thanks,
 
   - Mike Morearty
     Sr. Computer Scienstist
     Adobe Systems Inc.
 
  
 





 


 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Scott Hess

Could it be like incognito mode, where the window is special and the
tabs cannot be pooled with other modes?  Then we'd know you were done
when all your plugin-dev tabs were gone.

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:
 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
 -Darin

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
 potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
 in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
 would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
 tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
 would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
 our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

 For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
 --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
 explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
 --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
 also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
 control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
 --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
 flag for just that one tab.

 Thanks!  - Mike


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
  team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
  work even if Chrome is already running.
 
  Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
  for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
  So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
  click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
  Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
  Builder.
 
  Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
  The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
  blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
  next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 
  The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
  (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
  message:
 
     The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
     Would you like to stop it?
 
  Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
  so.
 
  I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
  chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
  Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
  Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
  suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
  over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
  tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 
  I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
  apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
  all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
  Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
  currently implemented as a global setting.
 
  Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
  I log an enhancement request?
 
  Thanks,
 
   - Mike Morearty
     Sr. Computer Scienstist
     Adobe Systems Inc.
 
  
 





 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.


I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
method names):
NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
processSocketMessages();
NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);

and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
permission in the manifest would fail.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Morearty
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.


 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);

 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.


That would work for us too.  Seems pretty good -- an easy way for a plugin
to say, Temporarily disable the hang monitor, because we are going to be
deliberately hung for a little while.

But I don't understand how the manifest would work.  I get that you want to
prevent malicious plugins from abusing this, but how does a plugin become
trusted?  What sort of manifest is this, and where is it (is it in the
plugin, or in Chrome, or somewhere else)?

I'm also fine with the other suggestions, such as making it a bit like
incognito mode, but that seems like potentially quite a lot more work.

P.S.  I'll log this as soon as this initial discussion slows down.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 That would work for us too.  Seems pretty good -- an easy way for a plugin
 to say, Temporarily disable the hang monitor, because we are going to be
 deliberately hung for a little while.

 But I don't understand how the manifest would work.  I get that you want to
 prevent malicious plugins from abusing this, but how does a plugin become
 trusted?  What sort of manifest is this, and where is it (is it in the
 plugin, or in Chrome, or somewhere else)?


In 
manifest.jsonhttp://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/common/extensions/docs/manifest.html#permissions,
you already have a permissions entry.  If that were extended to include a
disable-plugin-warning permission, then presumably at install time the
installer would warn you that the extension was requesting this ability,
much like installing an Android app.   If you are installing something that
you don't think should need that ability, then you might think twice about
installing it.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
I think this adds a lot of complexity.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Scott Hess sh...@chromium.org wrote:


 Could it be like incognito mode, where the window is special and the
 tabs cannot be pooled with other modes?  Then we'd know you were done
 when all your plugin-dev tabs were gone.

 -scott


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:
  I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
 if
  there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
   Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
  -Darin
 
  On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com
 wrote:
 
  We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could
 be
  potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were
 launching
  in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing
 this
  would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open
 another
  tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit,
 he
  would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the
 one in
  our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
 
  For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
  --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
  explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
  --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I
 might
  also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
  control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
  --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects
 that
  flag for just that one tab.
 
  Thanks!  - Mike
 
 
  On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth aba...@chromium.org
 wrote:
 
  You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
  of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
  --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
 
  Adam
 
 
  On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com
 wrote:
  
   Hi,
  
   I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex
 Builder)
   team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor
 to
   work even if Chrome is already running.
  
   Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
   for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
   So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
   click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
   Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
   Builder.
  
   Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
   The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
   blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
   next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
  
   The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
   (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
   message:
  
  The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
  Would you like to stop it?
  
   Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
   so.
  
   I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to
 launch
   chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
   Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.
  If
   Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
   suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
   over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
   tell Chrome to use this flag.)
  
   I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
   apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
   all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
   Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
   currently implemented as a global setting.
  
   Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
   I log an enhancement request?
  
   Thanks,
  
- Mike Morearty
  Sr. Computer Scienstist
  Adobe Systems Inc.
  
   
  
 
 
 
 
 
  
 

 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
For reference, something similar is done for popups:
void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);

Perhaps we can do the same thing here:

void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.


 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);

 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.

 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google

 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
 there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.


 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);

 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.


I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the advantage
of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via extensions.



 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google

 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Scott Hess

Another alternative would be a ping type call to say I'm
unresponsive, and I mean it.  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
together enough to call the watchdog.

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:
 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
 if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.

 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.

 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google




 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the advantage
 of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via extensions.


How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't think
you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist, and copy
the file there, and you don't want to have to write a platform-specific
installer to do that either.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Scott Hess sh...@chromium.org wrote:

 Another alternative would be a ping type call to say I'm
 unresponsive, and I mean it.  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
 could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
 together enough to call the watchdog.


That would be awkward, but doable, as in my case I couldn't use blocking
socket reads but would have to do polling so I could call the heartbeat
function.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Mammarella

Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
don't notify me again. If you click that, then it will disable the
hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
terminates.)

That avoids the need to have a plugin be trusted in any way, but keeps
the UI simple unless the plugin knows it wants to display it and get
debugged. You'd still have to deal with the dialog once but after that
it would get out of your way.

--Mike

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Scott Hess sh...@chromium.org wrote:

 Another alternative would be a ping type call to say I'm
 unresponsive, and I mean it.  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
 could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
 together enough to call the watchdog.

 -scott


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:
 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
 if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.

 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.

 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google




 


 


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Mike Mammarella m...@chromium.org wrote:

 Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
 could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
 don't notify me again. If you click that, then it will disable the
 hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
 becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
 terminates.)


In the case of debugging something remote, I don't think that buys you
anything over the current model unless it is for the lifetime of the plugin.
 Also, I think it will be annoying to users who expect when they are using
debugging the Java code associated with their app that the browser side is
going to hang (and better than other browsers where the UI locks up
entirely) -- I still think some way for it to always be disabled for the
given plugin with the user's consent.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Scott Hess

Since the hang dialog comes up in the future after you've shifted your
focus elsewhere, if we did any sort of user interaction at all I'd
rather the plug-in could say Ask user for permission to disable hang
monitor for this context right now.  The plug-in hits the breakpoint,
calls that function, and on successful return falls into the blocking
mode.  The browser could cache the response so that the user only has
to be asked once per tab (or browser session).

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Mike Mammarella m...@chromium.org wrote:
 Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
 could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
 don't notify me again. If you click that, then it will disable the
 hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
 becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
 terminates.)

 That avoids the need to have a plugin be trusted in any way, but keeps
 the UI simple unless the plugin knows it wants to display it and get
 debugged. You'd still have to deal with the dialog once but after that
 it would get out of your way.

 --Mike

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Scott Hess sh...@chromium.org wrote:

 Another alternative would be a ping type call to say I'm
 unresponsive, and I mean it.  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
 could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
 together enough to call the watchdog.

 -scott


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:
 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher da...@chromium.org wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
 if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.

 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.

 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google




 


 



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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:

 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);

 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:

 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);


Sounds fine to me.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Scott Hess sh...@chromium.org wrote:

 Since the hang dialog comes up in the future after you've shifted your
 focus elsewhere, if we did any sort of user interaction at all I'd
 rather the plug-in could say Ask user for permission to disable hang
 monitor for this context right now.  The plug-in hits the breakpoint,
 calls that function, and on successful return falls into the blocking
 mode.  The browser could cache the response so that the user only has
 to be asked once per tab (or browser session).


I still like the plugin being in control of when the warning is disabled --
let's say the user has code which actually has an infinite loop in JS which
gets called by the plugin -- even if I am debugging the Java code and know
the plugin will be unresponsive during that time, I still want to catch the
hang in what to me is user code.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Morearty
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);

 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:

 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);


 Sounds fine to me.


Me too.

As for a ping solution, my response is the same as John's: I could make
that work if necessary, but it would be awkward. Having an NPN_... API seems
like a cleaner solution.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Morearty
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
(b) just Flash, and enabled it.

As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
plugin version.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?


Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or the
toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).


 I don't think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't
 exist, and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


 I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
 is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
 Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
 (b) just Flash, and enabled it.


We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.



 As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
 installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
 plugin version.


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 For reference, something similar is done for popups:
 void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);

 Perhaps we can do the same thing here:

 void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
 void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);


 Sounds fine to me.


 Me too.


If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).



 As for a ping solution, my response is the same as John's: I could make
 that work if necessary, but it would be awkward. Having an NPN_... API seems
 like a cleaner solution.


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:

 If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
 discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
 https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).


Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they don't
have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Tamplin
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:

 Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or the
 toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).


So are you suggesting there is a better way to package an NPAPI plugin for
Chrome than to build a CRX?  On Firefox, NPAPI plugins can be installed via
XPI files just like XPCOM components, so it seems appropriate to use the
analogous construct here.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:34 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or
 the toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).


 So are you suggesting there is a better way to package an NPAPI plugin for
 Chrome than to build a CRX?  On Firefox, NPAPI plugins can be installed via
 XPI files just like XPCOM components, so it seems appropriate to use the
 analogous construct here.


crx/xpi are two possible convenient ways of doing it.  But if a program like
Flash Builder installs an NPAPI plugin alongside, then there's no need to
use either of those.




 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:32 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
 discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
 https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).


 Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they
 don't have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?


Firefox and Safari (at least on Mac) are also moving towards out of process
plugins.



 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google


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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Evan Martin

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:45 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:32 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org
 wrote:

 If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
 discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list
 (https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).

 Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they
 don't have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?

 Firefox and Safari (at least on Mac) are also moving towards out of process
 plugins.

And as a recent thread on there brought up, Opera does them out of
process as well.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Morearty
So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
plugin.

On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins are
native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving a
plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
API.



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.org wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


 I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
 is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
 Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
 (b) just Flash, and enabled it.


 We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
 algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
 plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
 installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.



 As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
 installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
 plugin version.




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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

2009-09-11 Thread John Abd-El-Malek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:

 So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
 does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
 manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
 only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
 plugin.


right


 On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins are
 native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving a
 plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
 permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
 anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
 it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
 API.


agreed





 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek j...@chromium.orgwrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty m...@morearty.com wrote:



 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek 
 j...@chromium.orgwrote:

 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.


 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.


 I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I
 know is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that
 when Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape
 plugins, or (b) just Flash, and enabled it.


 We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
 algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
 plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
 installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.



 As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
 installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
 plugin version.





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