Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: The Wilderness Years and historical truth
Dear Jonah, Many thanks for this most useful indication, of considerable importance. Horrible news, in fact - it means that though Sir Martin was the official historical adviser, the producers did not stick to the facts which he no doubt gave them. I wonder what other people and events are pure fantasy in this TV series which I rated highly until you told us what Sir Martin himself thought of it. I naïvely believed that, since Sir Martin had been the official historical adviser behind the series, everything in it was true to the facts ! This is the eternal problem associated with liars : when can you trust them ? In other words, the rivetting episodes about the Manchester cotton trade association and the India Bill might also be pure fantasy . . . Why on earth do TV and film producers believe that they have a God-given right to take liberties with established facts ? We all know the despicable meaning of being creative with the truth . . . ! Best wishes, A.C. From: Jonah Triebwssser Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 7:34 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill' I had the pleasure of being a guest in Sir Martin's home for tea many years ago. The conversation turned to The Wilderness Years. Sir Martin said that some characters were combined intio one, some events were compressed in time, and some events were pure fantasy. He was not happy with that. Regards-Jonah Sent from my Samsung Galaxy. Original message From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat Date:07/18/2015 6:03 AM (GMT-05:00) To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill' Dear Ms Finnegan, Thanks to the excellent index, as usual, I was able to find the relevant passage almost immediately : it runs from p.131 to p.135. Incidentally, reading that passage again, I noticed that Sir Martin suggests that Ralph Wigram died of polio (bottom of p.133). But in the excellent TV series, _The Wilderness Years_* (for which I seem to remember that Sir Martin was historical adviser), Ralph Wigram is shown as committing suicide. Any lights from List Members on this apparent contradiction ? Best wishes, A.C. *Easily available on DVD, and unreservedly recommended === From: Pat Finnegan Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 10:19 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: stories in 'In Search of Churchill' Hello, Professor Capet-- I think there was one story about how Sir Martin tracked down a man who had secretly given Churchill some reports about what Hitler and the Nazis were doing during the 1930s--without PM Chamberlain's knowledge. The man was afraid that he would be killed--or at least seriously injured--if the truth came out. I don't remember if Sir Martin mentioned the man's name, or gave him a pseudonym. But the gentleman was afraid--even after more than several decades! Now I'll have to re-read 'In Search of Churchill' again! (Ms.) Pat Finnegan On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:01 PM, 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat churchillchat@googlegroups.com wrote: Dear Ms Finnegan, When you write the stories of how he tracked down so many of Churchill's colleagues were both very amusing--and something of a 'spy novel'! I do not know which is your favourite. For my part, I was left speechless when I read how he had tracked down the estate agent (realtor, I think, in American English) who negotiated the transaction for Chartwell - so many years after the event ! This is definitely my favourite story in the book. Best wishes, A.C. = From: PatFinn1940 Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 8:53 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Another Image of Churchill I have that 'warmer' photo by Karsh on my copy of Sir Martin's one-volume Churchill biography (it was the first book Sir Martin sent me, after we began our correspondence in 2006). It's one of my favorite Churchill photos. I wonder how Karsh got him to smile for it, after the 'scowling lion' one was taken? And you are right about 'In Search of Churchill' being a 'masterpiece'. It helped a lot with the background of how the young Martin Gilbert became the 'official' biographer after Randolph Churchill's death. And the stories of how he tracked down so many of Churchill's colleagues were both very amusing--and something of a 'spy novel'! (Ms.) Pat Finnegan On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 4:47:32 PM UTC-4, Antoine Capet wrote: Dear Terry, No harm done in anglicising Adolf - except that the custom among historians is to anglicise the (first) names of kings, emperors and popes : perhaps too great an honour for that man. On a more serious note : I was struck when recently reading the late Sir Martin's masterpiece, _ In Search of Churchill_ (by the way, many thanks to the List Members who wrote it was priority reading - they were absolutely
Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: The Wilderness Years and historical truth
I don't know what the truth is about Ralph Wigram's death, and would like to know. Wikipedia says: Wigram's sudden death is somewhat mysterious. Again, sources disagree, on several points. For one, some say he was found dead at home, but a letter from Churchill says he died in Ava's arms.[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-GuardianArticle-8[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-Gilbert-9 His death certificate recorded the cause of death as pulmonary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_lung haemorrhage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemorrhage, but a letter from [British historian] Henry Pelling indicates he committed suicide while deeply depressed.[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-GuardianArticle-8[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-Manchester-7 The fact that his own parents did not attend his funeral is cited as support for this theory (although Churchill and his family did attend, along with a number of others such as Robert Vansittart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gilbert_Vansittart and Brendan Bracken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Bracken).[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-GuardianArticle-8[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-Manchester-7 Churchill's letters indicate (but only indirectly) that depression and suicide were the cause.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-Manchester-7 Polio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio has also been put forward as a cause by some sources.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wigram#cite_note-ChurchillCentre-5 Source 8 is Thorpe, Vanessa (22 June 2002). The man who told Churchill to take on Hitler. The Guardian. This about controversies over not *The Wilderness Years*, but Albert Finney's BBC production *The Gathering Storm*, and cites its scriptwriter (Hugh Whitemore) saying: Churchill was a natural leader, with no self-doubt, and that was what the nation needed. But Wigram, he was just a normal man and not naturally brave, more like the rest of us. I don't think he could cope. His death certificate says he died of a pulmonary haemorrhage, but if I had to guess I would say it was suicide. His own parents did not attend his funeral. The entire article, which inspires little confidence in the issue of Wigram's death, can be read at http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/23/filmnews.film Source 7 is William Manchester's *The Last Lion*, p. 193. I'm away from home and books, but this is apparently the Henry Pelling reference, and perhaps someone can let us know what it says. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 12:49 PM, 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat churchillchat@googlegroups.com wrote: Dear Jonah, Many thanks for this most useful indication, of considerable importance. Horrible news, in fact - it means that though Sir Martin was the official historical adviser, the producers did not stick to the facts which he no doubt gave them. I wonder what other people and events are pure fantasy in this TV series which I rated highly until you told us what Sir Martin himself thought of it. I naïvely believed that, since Sir Martin had been the official historical adviser behind the series, everything in it was true to the facts ! This is the eternal problem associated with liars : when can you trust them ? In other words, the rivetting episodes about the Manchester cotton trade association and the India Bill might also be pure fantasy . . . Why on earth do TV and film producers believe that they have a God-given right to take liberties with established facts ? We all know the despicable meaning of being creative with the truth . . . ! Best wishes, A.C. From: Jonah Triebwssser Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 7:34 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill' I had the pleasure of being a guest in Sir Martin's home for tea many years ago. The conversation turned to The Wilderness Years. Sir Martin said that some characters were combined intio one, some events were compressed in time, and some events were pure fantasy. He was not happy with that. Regards-Jonah Sent from my Samsung Galaxy. Original message From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat Date:07/18/2015 6:03 AM (GMT-05:00) To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill' Dear Ms Finnegan, Thanks to the excellent index, as usual, I was able to find the relevant passage almost immediately : it runs from p.131 to p.135. Incidentally, reading that passage again, I noticed that Sir Martin suggests that Ralph Wigram died of polio (bottom of p.133). But in the excellent TV series, _The Wilderness Years_* (for which I seem to remember that Sir Martin was historical adviser), Ralph Wigram is shown as committing suicide. Any lights from List Members on
