Dear Jon,
Many thanks for these "leads".
I have Pelling's History of British Trade Unionism, but not his Churchill.
The good news, however, is that I have The Caged (not Last) Lion, and indeed there are several paragraphs on pages 192-193
discussing Wigram's death.
W. Manchester gives the Pelling quote : "depression overtook him and he committed suicide", and he accepts this as final : he does
not even mention the polio hypothesis. In fact, he then accuses WSC of being "less than generous" in blaming Wigram for having
"deserted his post in his country's hour of need". This is from an interpretation of his correspondence with CSC over this sad
event. W. Manchester also recalls Boothby's judgement that WSC could be cruel.
Incidentally, in "Herbert Henry Asquith", published in 1928 and reprinted in _Great Contemporaries_, WSC wrote about Gladstone's
saying that "a PM should be a good butcher", as applied by Asquith, who never spared his political friends. WSC concludes : "But
how else can States be governed?" thus supporting Boothby's judgement.
So the puzzle - why Sir Martin only spoke of polio - remains intact.
Best,
A.C.
============
From: Jon Lellenberg
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 9:45 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: "The Wilderness Years" and historical truth
I don't know what the truth is about Ralph Wigram's death, and would like to
know. Wikipedia says:
Wigram's sudden death is somewhat mysterious. Again, sources disagree, on several points. For one, some say he was found dead at
home, but a letter from Churchill says he died in Ava's arms.[8][9] His death certificate recorded the cause of death as pulmonary
haemorrhage, but a letter from [British historian] Henry Pelling indicates he committed suicide while deeply depressed.[8][7] The
fact that his own parents did not attend his funeral is cited as support for this theory (although Churchill and his family did
attend, along with a number of others such as Robert Vansittart and Brendan Bracken).[8][7] Churchill's letters indicate (but only
indirectly) that depression and suicide were the cause.[7] Polio has also been put forward as a cause by some sources.[5]
Source 8 is Thorpe, Vanessa (22 June 2002). "The man who told Churchill to take on Hitler". The Guardian. This about
controversies over not The Wilderness Years, but Albert Finney's BBC production The Gathering Storm, and cites its scriptwriter
(Hugh Whitemore) saying: "Churchill was a natural leader, with no self-doubt, and that was what the nation needed. But Wigram, he
was just a normal man and not naturally brave, more like the rest of us. I don't think he could cope. His death certificate says
he died of a pulmonary haemorrhage, but if I had to guess I would say it was suicide. His own parents did not attend his funeral."
The entire article, which inspires little confidence in the issue of Wigram's death, can be read at
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/23/filmnews.film
Source 7 is William Manchester's The Last Lion, p. 193. I'm away from home and books, but this is apparently the Henry Pelling
reference, and perhaps someone can let us know what it says.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 12:49 PM, 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat
<churchillchat@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Dear Jonah,
Many thanks for this most useful indication, of considerable importance.
Horrible news, in fact - it means that though Sir Martin was the official historical adviser, the producers did not stick to the
facts which he no doubt gave them.
I wonder what other people and "events" are "pure fantasy" in this TV series which I rated highly until you told us what Sir
Martin himself thought of it.
I naïvely believed that, since Sir Martin had been the official historical adviser behind the series, everything in it was "true
to the facts" !
This is the eternal problem associated with liars : when can you trust them ? In other words, the rivetting episodes about the
Manchester cotton trade association and the India Bill might also be "pure fantasy" . . .
Why on earth do TV and film producers believe that they have a God-given right
to take liberties with established facts ?
We all know the despicable meaning of "being creative with the truth" . . . !
Best wishes,
A.C.
========
From: Jonah Triebwssser
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 7:34 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill'
I had the pleasure of being a guest in Sir Martin's home for tea many years ago. The conversation turned to "The Wilderness Years.
Sir Martin said that some characters were combined intio one, some events were compressed in time, and some events were pure
fantasy. He was not happy with that. Regards-Jonah
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Original message --------
From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat
Date:07/18/2015 6:03 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: secret informants in 'In Search of Churchill'
Dear Ms Finnegan,
Thanks to the excellent index, as usual, I was able to find the relevant
passage almost immediately : it runs from p.131 to p.135.
Incidentally, reading that passage again, I noticed that Sir Martin suggests
that Ralph Wigram died of polio (bottom of p.133).
But in the excellent TV series, _The Wilderness Years_* (for which I seem to
remember that Sir Martin was historical adviser),
Ralph Wigram is shown as committing suicide.
Any lights from List Members on this apparent contradiction ?
Best wishes,
A.C.
*Easily available on DVD, and unreservedly recommended
===========
From: Pat Finnegan
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 10:19 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: stories in 'In Search of Churchill'
Hello, Professor Capet--
I think there was one story about how Sir Martin tracked down a man who had
secretly given Churchill some reports about what
Hitler and the Nazis were doing during the 1930s--without PM Chamberlain's
knowledge. The man was afraid that he would be
killed--or at least seriously injured--if the truth came out.
I don't remember if Sir Martin mentioned the man's name, or gave him a
pseudonym. But the gentleman was afraid--even after more
than several decades!
Now I'll have to re-read 'In Search of Churchill' again!
(Ms.) Pat Finnegan
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:01 PM, 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat
<churchillchat@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Dear Ms Finnegan,
When you write "the stories of how he tracked down so many of Churchill's
colleagues were both very amusing--and something of a
'spy novel'!" I do not know which is your favourite.
For my part, I was left speechless when I read how he had "tracked down" the
estate agent (realtor, I think, in American English)
who negotiated the transaction for Chartwell - so many years after the event !
This is definitely my favourite story in the book.
Best wishes,
A.C.
=====
From: PatFinn1940
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 8:53 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Another Image of Churchill
I have that 'warmer' photo by Karsh on my copy of Sir Martin's one-volume
Churchill biography (it was the first book Sir Martin
sent me, after we began our correspondence in 2006). It's one of my favorite
Churchill photos. I wonder how Karsh got him to
smile for it, after the 'scowling lion' one was taken?
And you are right about 'In Search of Churchill' being a 'masterpiece'. It
helped a lot with the background of how the young
Martin Gilbert became the 'official' biographer after Randolph Churchill's
death. And the stories of how he tracked down so many
of Churchill's colleagues were both very amusing--and something of a 'spy
novel'!
(Ms.) Pat Finnegan
On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 4:47:32 PM UTC-4, Antoine Capet wrote: Dear Terry,
No harm done in anglicising Adolf - except that the custom among historians is
to anglicise the (first) names of kings, emperors
and popes : perhaps too great an honour for "that man".
On a more serious note :
I was struck when recently reading the late Sir Martin's masterpiece, _ In
Search of Churchill_ (by the way, many thanks to the
List Members who wrote it was priority reading - they were absolutely right)
that he said why he had rejected that world-famous
portrait in favour of a warmer one (albeit also by Karsh at the same session)
for the photograph on his dust cover. Was he
influenced by Clementine's opinion (which he no doubt knew) ? - that will
remain forever an interesting question.
Best,
A.C.
==================
From: Terry Reardon
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 9:57 PM
To: church...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Another Image of Churchill
OOPS!
Before someone comments - of course it should be Adolf.
Terry Reardon
From: Terry Reardon
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:53 PM
To: church...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Another Image of Churchill
We clearly know the opinion of Winston and Clementine on the Graham Sutherland
painting, but what was their opinion of the
“Roaring Lion” photograph by Yousuf Karsh?
While to the best of my knowledge Winston Churchill is not on record as having
given an opinion, we do have his reaction by way of
Clementine. As I said in my book (take every opportunity!) on Churchill &
Mackenzie King, the diary of King of May 6, 1944
recorded a conversation with Clementine. “She (Clementine) does not like the
Karsh picture, neither does Churchill himself. She
said ‘He really has a more playful expression about his mouth.’”
Now I wonder if Adolph Hitler ever commented on it!
Terry Reardon
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