Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
Hi, I'm not sure how Mr. Montgomery essentially saying 'let's wait and see' is either insecure or any sort of 'screed' to take offense to. I'm also not sure what all the negative comments are good for with regards to the existing developers and those who have supported the new CV domain and hosting during a period of uncertainty with fractured communications exacerbated by a malfunctioning mailing list. Is improvement and 'new life' needed in this project... unequivocally yes! Are some more current and effective means for both developers and users to access information needed...absolutely! I for one am deeply appreciative for all of the core developers and supporters of the CV branch whose hard work and determination have made Cinelerra accessible and usable to myself and numerous others for years now especially during the years when Mr. Williams despite his obvious brilliance seemed completely ambivalent to whether people could use and enjoy his work for themselves... People naturally fear the unknown, the people that are left and still reading this are here because they love Cinelerra and therefore I don't think it should come as too much of a surprise (or be taken personally at all) that there is some concern about what the intentions of the owner of their former domain are... I think everyone in both camps should cut each other a bit of slack and think about what is best for both branches of Cinelerra in the future, that is just an opinion from a supporter, distributor and packager of Cinelerra-CV so take it or leave it, Best Regards, Glen MacArthur - AV Linux Maintainer > The recent insecure screed from Mr. Montgomery is very peculiar. When I > "grabbed" Cinelerra.Org, it was a website which which was literally > abandoned and about to go to a Domain Auction since none of you on the > list, over a several month period, refused to "grab" and do something with > it on your own. So, Mr. Montgomery is clearly wrong on that count. > > Now, regarding not doing anything in the first few weeks after the > transfer, I made it clear from the beginning that the re-build was going > to take some time and the plan was to release it before an important media > convention in April. Since none of you showed any interest to update it on > your own, I did not see any reason to make any immediate changes for your > benefit. The plan to release the first stage of the re-write for a > specific purpose at the trade show is still in effect. Considering nobody > from the list has really bothered to extend themselves with any ideas or > direction, except in a somewhat cursory fashion to me since my opening > statements on the website itself and in a few e-mails directed to the most > recent "active" list members I am assuming everyone is following Mr. > Montgomery's lead and sitting back and watching. My specific purpose in > contacting so-called active members of the list ahead of time is because I > have a significant commitment from a major sponsor which I will release > over the next month to responsible parties working on important pieces of > Cinelerra. If no one has any openness nor cooperative nature towards me > and the direction I want to take things here, I wont bother you. So, I > will hold off on pursuing that level of cooperation as everyone would > prefer to follow Mr. Montogomery's lead and "watch". > > Finally, considering that Cinelerra as a concept was originally an idea, > which I first suggested to Adam Williams as the next stage of his already > published Broadcast 2000, I am not going to apologize to anyone for > "grabbing" a moribund and failed project and trying to breath life into > it on my own time, money, and support. Particularly, since I have > personal stake in Cinelerra which pre-dates any of the efforts of anyone > on the list, except for Adam himself. I do recall with a big splash that > many of you left Cinelerra entirely to start a new project which stalled > to a halt quite a while ago. So, maybe that option is still out there for > those who don't like me or my style. The only key element you will never > have is the far-reaching and inspired leadership of a great and historic > inventor and innovator like Adam Williams. > > Developers I have worked with for years here on the West Coast have a > strong interest in supporting a new direction for Cinelerra which will > include extensive support for Adam's work and also from members of the > community who will likely be new members and older members after they have > stopped "watching". After these first few weeks I can see why the site was > dead and I can see why Adam's response to so much of what has gone on > here is probably and usually a very generous "meh". > > >> When I said 'I didn't mind' it was more 'doesn't really affect me'. >> >> I haven't seen Michael do anything yet aside from grab the domain and >> send mail. If he turns out to pour time and energy into Cinelerra, >> then we can decide if it's good for t
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
I think Michael has a point; nothing happened to Cinelerra cv for how long ? The simple fact he grabbed the domain shows that nobody was sadly following up on the project, including me ! A lot of development and efforts (documentation, .deb or rpms) have been put into the project, there has been at least 2 important (to me) plugins (blue banana and C41) which have been released and nowhere to be seen on, for say, packman repos because there is no one to put them into an official git repo. There is probably more code that is missing out. Grab the gits : Well really ? I am not a developer and I don't crack a woody compiling code. I can't bother spending endless hours trying to figure out how to compile them and why it works on Ubuntu and not Debian etc... How many people are put off by this step ? Most people I know here in Wellington can't bother getting into the code side of things. They just want a software that works. Why do you think Mac platforms are so popular for video editing? Now... what is the point of having several gits with plenty of new code to be ignored by main distros ??? People are afraid of many cinelerra cv versions ? Well, it's already done isn't it ? Conversely if it is to turn the cv version into a commercial venture, then there is the version from A. Williams who has been complaining of being flat broke for the last many years. So Michael if that's the case and since you seem to know Adam why don't you work with him on his version ? This is where I don't understand your interest in the CV project. Alternative ? there is Kdenlive but nowhere as efficient (no renderfarm, video specific formats, low end colour correction, crappy stabilisation, limited colour space etc ..) As for Lumiera... I hope it's not gonna be obsolete by the time it is released. Blender ?? Good luck ... That was an end user point of view. Cheers Ed On 17/03/14 10:28, Michael Collins wrote: Again, I thank everyone for their past and future efforts. But, it is time for Cinelerra to grow up and reach its potential. I think we can agree on that point. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
My history and my interest were always made transparent and clear. If it wasn't clear from the opening messages I placed on the website and directed to Herman personally, hopefully for responsible dissemination to the "back-channel" (Herman's words) , then you weren't paying attention anyways. Seriously, if someone has a problem getting support and payment for important contributions to the future of Cinelerra, don't present your ideas nor apply yourself to its future development. If you would like to know how you can receive support, prepare a plan and please contact us in April. Seriously. Montgomery does admit one thing, which is telling. The website was dead under his and the communal leadership model (no surprise) and was about to become irretrievable since he and the rest of the "back-channel" team did nothing to save it on their own. So, he is right, what difference does his interest make anyways? I don't care what he does. So, to anyone who has their feelings hurt about the changes or my directness, try to ignore me or please respond to what was and is a sincere professional outreach to other professionals. It is about improving oneself in this noble and important pursuit of improving Cinelerra. Again, I thank everyone for their past and future efforts. But, it is time for Cinelerra to grow up and reach its potential. I think we can agree on that point. Thank you, Michael Collins michael.coll...@cinelerra.org > Heh, well, now we have a pretty clear impression of what's going on > here. Good luck to Mr. Collins, as he's probably going to need it. > > I still wouldn't mind if he actually succeeds in reinvigorating > Cinelerra, and I'll still believe it when I see it. In the meantime, > I don't really see how it affects us. > > Cheers, > Monty > -- Sincerely, Mike Michael Collins Site Director Cinelerra.Org michael.coll...@cinelerra.org Phone - 855.562.3456 x804 ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
The recent insecure screed from Mr. Montgomery is very peculiar. When I "grabbed" Cinelerra.Org, it was a website which which was literally abandoned and about to go to a Domain Auction since none of you on the list, over a several month period, refused to "grab" and do something with it on your own. So, Mr. Montgomery is clearly wrong on that count. Now, regarding not doing anything in the first few weeks after the transfer, I made it clear from the beginning that the re-build was going to take some time and the plan was to release it before an important media convention in April. Since none of you showed any interest to update it on your own, I did not see any reason to make any immediate changes for your benefit. The plan to release the first stage of the re-write for a specific purpose at the trade show is still in effect. Considering nobody from the list has really bothered to extend themselves with any ideas or direction, except in a somewhat cursory fashion to me since my opening statements on the website itself and in a few e-mails directed to the most recent "active" list members I am assuming everyone is following Mr. Montgomery's lead and sitting back and watching. My specific purpose in contacting so-called active members of the list ahead of time is because I have a significant commitment from a major sponsor which I will release over the next month to responsible parties working on important pieces of Cinelerra. If no one has any openness nor cooperative nature towards me and the direction I want to take things here, I wont bother you. So, I will hold off on pursuing that level of cooperation as everyone would prefer to follow Mr. Montogomery's lead and "watch". Finally, considering that Cinelerra as a concept was originally an idea, which I first suggested to Adam Williams as the next stage of his already published Broadcast 2000, I am not going to apologize to anyone for "grabbing" a moribund and failed project and trying to breath life into it on my own time, money, and support. Particularly, since I have personal stake in Cinelerra which pre-dates any of the efforts of anyone on the list, except for Adam himself. I do recall with a big splash that many of you left Cinelerra entirely to start a new project which stalled to a halt quite a while ago. So, maybe that option is still out there for those who don't like me or my style. The only key element you will never have is the far-reaching and inspired leadership of a great and historic inventor and innovator like Adam Williams. Developers I have worked with for years here on the West Coast have a strong interest in supporting a new direction for Cinelerra which will include extensive support for Adam's work and also from members of the community who will likely be new members and older members after they have stopped "watching". After these first few weeks I can see why the site was dead and I can see why Adam's response to so much of what has gone on here is probably and usually a very generous "meh". > When I said 'I didn't mind' it was more 'doesn't really affect me'. > > I haven't seen Michael do anything yet aside from grab the domain and > send mail. If he turns out to pour time and energy into Cinelerra, > then we can decide if it's good for the project or not. Or maybe > that's the last we're going to hear from him. In which case, the > proper reaction is probably an Adam-like 'meh'. > > My take is send mail, say hello, and go about our business for now. > > Monty > -- Sincerely, Mike Michael Collins Site Director Cinelerra.Org michael.coll...@cinelerra.org Phone - 855.562.3456 x804 ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
Hi there people, I'm loosely folowing all the trouble, but just put simple, what does all this means for cinelerra-cv users (btw, I'm completelly without time to code to cinelerra)? Which website should we rely on? And no lightworks source code published yet... :/ Best regards, Rafael Diniz > Heh, well, now we have a pretty clear impression of what's going on > here. Good luck to Mr. Collins, as he's probably going to need it. > > I still wouldn't mind if he actually succeeds in reinvigorating > Cinelerra, and I'll still believe it when I see it. In the meantime, > I don't really see how it affects us. > > Cheers, > Monty ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
Heh, well, now we have a pretty clear impression of what's going on here. Good luck to Mr. Collins, as he's probably going to need it. I still wouldn't mind if he actually succeeds in reinvigorating Cinelerra, and I'll still believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I don't really see how it affects us. Cheers, Monty ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
So how to proceed? Diverting the cinelerra community even further will certainly be the death of the community project. IMO the only ones who can decide on this are the people who are actually involved with the project. Recently that are Einar and Monty because they did some coding and Raffa as she holds the cinelerra-cv.org domain. Anyone else? just speak up if you feel to be ignored. I think only one site should remain, either we redirect cinelerra-cv.org to cinelerra.org and let Michael handle the stuff, shutting our server down, or we ask him to collaborate with us and forward cinelerra.org to our server. Did I miss any other option? Monty told on IRC that he won't mind if Michael takes over. Einar and Raffa, what do you think? I kept the Server running (even if it was poorly paied) because I don't want the project die. Michaels action now changed the situation. Now letting the project split up may make it worse. This case should be settled ASAP. Awaitung your opinions. Christian I'm definitely not active, but you said "just speak up." The last time I used Cinelerra was 3 years ago, but have fond memories and wish to use it again. To your credit, you are all taking the high road with - lets wait and see what Michael has planned. My thoughts: if he had really good intentions he would have gone about this in a different way. Yes, snag the domain but before unveiling a new direction... he needed to become part of the community. Freevo, another FOSS project that I was a great advocate of, has officially been halted based on lack of development. It died from being too difficult to setup and having much easier (but less flexible) alternatives. A dependable Cinelerra, was always a trick to get setup for me. When Pitivi and friends are just a few clicks away in Ubuntu/Mint, it takes a special person or need for folks to find Cinelerra and get it working. The flavors of Cinelerra tend to make it more diluted in the market of FOSS NLE. When a person doesn't know where to go to "get Cinelerra", it looks like a dying project. :( I can help a little with this project, but that's a different subject I'll leave for later. -Scott ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
Ciao! I agree the present situation (doubled sites/projects) is unacceptable and a decision must be taken soon. In fact I'm trying to better understand the idea behind the new cinelerra.org project but I'm having technical problems communicating with Michael. As soon as I will become more informed on the matter I'll be able to speak up and give you my opinion. So far I only have an opinion on the lack of good communication between the two projects. But (if it is worth) that can be fixed. Ciao Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
When I said 'I didn't mind' it was more 'doesn't really affect me'. I haven't seen Michael do anything yet aside from grab the domain and send mail. If he turns out to pour time and energy into Cinelerra, then we can decide if it's good for the project or not. Or maybe that's the last we're going to hear from him. In which case, the proper reaction is probably an Adam-like 'meh'. My take is send mail, say hello, and go about our business for now. Monty ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCV] Announcement from Michael Collins (the new registrant of cinelerra.org)
Am Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:32:58 +0100 schrieb "Herman Robak" : >** Michael Collins asked me to forward this to the list ** > > > To all Cinelerra List members: March 8, 2014 > > > We intend to rebuild the user list and efforts through the > establishment of a collaborative network on a new site design > oriented towards modern development collaboration and messaging > methods. If you have anything you wish to do with Cinelerra in the > near and planned future, let us know: > > l...@cinelerra.org > > Please feel free to contact me through this e-mail or through a new > list being established to be merged with the old list. > > My direct e-mail is michael.coll...@cinelerra.org > > Yes, my methods are for communication is a little different, but, I am > open and willing to listen and to collaborate. So, if you have any > ideas about tools, UI, networking, kernel coding, marketing, sales, > user support, developer support, web site, or anything you can think > of and is important to you, let me know. > > > My direct e-mail is michael.coll...@cinelerra.org > > Thanks > > Mike Collins So how to proceed? Diverting the cinelerra community even further will certainly be the death of the community project. IMO the only ones who can decide on this are the people who are actually involved with the project. Recently that are Einar and Monty because they did some coding and Raffa as she holds the cinelerra-cv.org domain. Anyone else? just speak up if you feel to be ignored. I think only one site should remain, either we redirect cinelerra-cv.org to cinelerra.org and let Michael handle the stuff, shutting our server down, or we ask him to collaborate with us and forward cinelerra.org to our server. Did I miss any other option? Monty told on IRC that he won't mind if Michael takes over. Einar and Raffa, what do you think? I kept the Server running (even if it was poorly paied) because I don't want the project die. Michaels action now changed the situation. Now letting the project split up may make it worse. This case should be settled ASAP. Awaitung your opinions. Christian > > skype is michaelalancollins2 > google is michaelalancollins > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://lists.skolelinux.org/listinfo/cinelerra
