Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
I understand that the people that created DNA need to be compensated but Cisco decided to build or acquire a product that not very many people want due to how much better the free tools are. So that seems like an issue for the C-suite at Cisco and not something that you force people to bail you out of. Also if the pricing on the hardware was reasonable and DNA was simply 'yet another tax' then that would be fine, but the hardware cost is elevated and on top of that they force you to purchase DNA. Thanks, -Drew -Original Message- From: Jared Mauch Sent: Friday, January 6, 2023 2:43 PM To: Drew Weaver Cc: Paul ; Gert Doering ; cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it? I mean a lot of it is discovery based on what you may know, people leak, etc.. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ebay.com_itm_334605205968-3Fhash-3Ditem4de80641d0-3Ag-3A2mcAAOSwgSFihATj-26amdata-3Denc-253AAQAHoFS6a5FMPKMFewpCgtU23dVU0SQFQ-252BDr46sAaS19QJn2vSCgqcG-252BN6yyHrRh0IDsAGIeG7Dz2twn-252FdTtCy7a-252BKayr837Q5G6DtQ5wSecZpCxQE45s8vx7CBvrackFH-252FNJqIMimw-252Bci2v57-252BNMEjpVOJMRs4Ne5BPUtExJ416nVmYslj8lFgmXbkQ9S9vCmfU0wOapWkgN5BzWJx4FXnOw5k-253D-257Ctkp-253ABk9SR8LdvomxYQ=DwIFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=C_YA3qOb_mEq1Tm_VEA3JjfCxAe328SFqdLSDWcV8wE=l2Bzc4SPUxiUUktnkFdFz4NByz7Ekrm48V1pZOYlZB8= Is an item that (for example) I can tell you I’ve seen vendors license their software to run on. There’s software that you can run on top of SONIC etc as well to get features you might want/need as well. Keep in mind the sw + hw devs for new products do need to be fed and the vendors often have hybrid ways to collect the monies, free hardware but pay in opex (support, RMA etc) or buy for higher price but get support free. That discovery process takes awhile, but if you have volume and options to go elsewhere it may be possible to determine it. - Jared > On Jan 6, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp > wrote: > > Also is there any way to figure out what this stuff should cost? > > The resellers could just be trying to take way too much out of us. I'm not > sure and I have no idea how to find out. > > Thanks, > -Drew > > > -Original Message- > From: cisco-nsp On Behalf Of Drew > Weaver via cisco-nsp > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2023 9:02 AM > To: 'Paul' ; 'Gert Doering' > Cc: 'cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net' > Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll > never use it? > > If the price of the hardware wasn't already juiced beyond belief then maybe > it would make sense but ... yeah I am just going to have to find another > vendor. > > Thanks, > -Drew > > > -Original Message- > From: Paul > Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 3:58 PM > To: Gert Doering ; Drew Weaver > > Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll > never use it? > > I'm with you on that one, licensing kills any interest in it for us too. > Goes for a large number of cisco products now , where before was only limited > to a few. > > It's sad because I love cisco switches and routers, but it's a huge > deterrent now with the forced licensing and support > > On 1/4/2023 10:50 AM, Gert Doering via cisco-nsp wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:45:51PM +, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: >>> I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. >> Cisco licensing shit has made us decide that we're just not going to >> buy any new Cisco products. Period. >> >> Yes, these really look nice, and the base price is quite attractive >> (guess why)... >> >> gert >> >> ___ >> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_ >> m >> ailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5 >> A >> _CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qO >> O >> hUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=uqRG1Eseinm6yrxQLDY48bSAwK0fsRe8 >> 6 >> 8NE_ofnpqE= archive at >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_p >> i >> permail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_Cdpgn >> V >> fiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZs >> F >> nCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=6it9k1UOikBdQrvqhRCve41ZJJGAgA88MDdg_93 >> V >> JA0= > > -- > GloboTech Communications > Phone: 1-514-9
Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
I mean a lot of it is discovery based on what you may know, people leak, etc.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/334605205968?hash=item4de80641d0:g:2mcAAOSwgSFihATj=enc%3AAQAHoFS6a5FMPKMFewpCgtU23dVU0SQFQ%2BDr46sAaS19QJn2vSCgqcG%2BN6yyHrRh0IDsAGIeG7Dz2twn%2FdTtCy7a%2BKayr837Q5G6DtQ5wSecZpCxQE45s8vx7CBvrackFH%2FNJqIMimw%2Bci2v57%2BNMEjpVOJMRs4Ne5BPUtExJ416nVmYslj8lFgmXbkQ9S9vCmfU0wOapWkgN5BzWJx4FXnOw5k%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8LdvomxYQ Is an item that (for example) I can tell you I’ve seen vendors license their software to run on. There’s software that you can run on top of SONIC etc as well to get features you might want/need as well. Keep in mind the sw + hw devs for new products do need to be fed and the vendors often have hybrid ways to collect the monies, free hardware but pay in opex (support, RMA etc) or buy for higher price but get support free. That discovery process takes awhile, but if you have volume and options to go elsewhere it may be possible to determine it. - Jared > On Jan 6, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp > wrote: > > Also is there any way to figure out what this stuff should cost? > > The resellers could just be trying to take way too much out of us. I'm not > sure and I have no idea how to find out. > > Thanks, > -Drew > > > -Original Message- > From: cisco-nsp On Behalf Of Drew Weaver > via cisco-nsp > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2023 9:02 AM > To: 'Paul' ; 'Gert Doering' > Cc: 'cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net' > Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll > never use it? > > If the price of the hardware wasn't already juiced beyond belief then maybe > it would make sense but ... yeah I am just going to have to find another > vendor. > > Thanks, > -Drew > > > -Original Message- > From: Paul > Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 3:58 PM > To: Gert Doering ; Drew Weaver > Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll > never use it? > > I'm with you on that one, licensing kills any interest in it for us too. > Goes for a large number of cisco products now , where before was only limited > to a few. > > It's sad because I love cisco switches and routers, but it's a huge deterrent > now with the forced licensing and support > > On 1/4/2023 10:50 AM, Gert Doering via cisco-nsp wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:45:51PM +, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: >>> I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. >> Cisco licensing shit has made us decide that we're just not going to >> buy any new Cisco products. Period. >> >> Yes, these really look nice, and the base price is quite attractive >> (guess why)... >> >> gert >> >> ___ >> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_m >> ailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A >> _CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOO >> hUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=uqRG1Eseinm6yrxQLDY48bSAwK0fsRe86 >> 8NE_ofnpqE= archive at >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_pi >> permail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnV >> fiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsF >> nCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=6it9k1UOikBdQrvqhRCve41ZJJGAgA88MDdg_93V >> JA0= > > -- > GloboTech Communications > Phone: 1-514-907-0050 x 215 > Toll Free: 1-(888)-GTCOMM1 > Fax: 1-(514)-907-0750 > p...@gtcomm.net > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gtcomm.net=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=bzG0UW9Xxt9sq-f4YcJ6dZGUuBUNSpiDYCfDTxTZeAY= > > ___ > cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_mailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=0nakOEayskiDCF77b4CWL-Ta1iGVs_fHDq2fl4vGQpk=DVGzTsPYCcpLTVhO4q3wUaHf42b8MBVuss_8vNx-rnc= > archive at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_pipermail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=0nakOEayskiDCF77b4CWL-Ta1iGVs_fHDq2fl4vGQpk=innpoqNaWDw_UQ3HzzBf9AiAJY2eCiI5ohiUPd0bTms= > ___ > cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp > archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
On 06/01/2023 14:15, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: Also is there any way to figure out what this stuff should cost? It's some variant of Broadcom Trident chipset, right? Trident3-X5? Though remember that the value of hardware packaging around the ASIC is extremely variable. Poor cooling designs, poor PSUs, etc. YMMV. -- Tom ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
Also is there any way to figure out what this stuff should cost? The resellers could just be trying to take way too much out of us. I'm not sure and I have no idea how to find out. Thanks, -Drew -Original Message- From: cisco-nsp On Behalf Of Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp Sent: Friday, January 6, 2023 9:02 AM To: 'Paul' ; 'Gert Doering' Cc: 'cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net' Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it? If the price of the hardware wasn't already juiced beyond belief then maybe it would make sense but ... yeah I am just going to have to find another vendor. Thanks, -Drew -Original Message- From: Paul Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 3:58 PM To: Gert Doering ; Drew Weaver Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it? I'm with you on that one, licensing kills any interest in it for us too. Goes for a large number of cisco products now , where before was only limited to a few. It's sad because I love cisco switches and routers, but it's a huge deterrent now with the forced licensing and support On 1/4/2023 10:50 AM, Gert Doering via cisco-nsp wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:45:51PM +, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: >> I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. > Cisco licensing shit has made us decide that we're just not going to > buy any new Cisco products. Period. > > Yes, these really look nice, and the base price is quite attractive > (guess why)... > > gert > > ___ > cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_m > ailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A > _CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOO > hUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=uqRG1Eseinm6yrxQLDY48bSAwK0fsRe86 > 8NE_ofnpqE= archive at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_pi > permail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnV > fiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsF > nCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=6it9k1UOikBdQrvqhRCve41ZJJGAgA88MDdg_93V > JA0= -- GloboTech Communications Phone: 1-514-907-0050 x 215 Toll Free: 1-(888)-GTCOMM1 Fax: 1-(514)-907-0750 p...@gtcomm.net https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gtcomm.net=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=bzG0UW9Xxt9sq-f4YcJ6dZGUuBUNSpiDYCfDTxTZeAY= ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_mailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=0nakOEayskiDCF77b4CWL-Ta1iGVs_fHDq2fl4vGQpk=DVGzTsPYCcpLTVhO4q3wUaHf42b8MBVuss_8vNx-rnc= archive at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_pipermail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=0nakOEayskiDCF77b4CWL-Ta1iGVs_fHDq2fl4vGQpk=innpoqNaWDw_UQ3HzzBf9AiAJY2eCiI5ohiUPd0bTms= ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
If the price of the hardware wasn't already juiced beyond belief then maybe it would make sense but ... yeah I am just going to have to find another vendor. Thanks, -Drew -Original Message- From: Paul Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 3:58 PM To: Gert Doering ; Drew Weaver Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it? I'm with you on that one, licensing kills any interest in it for us too. Goes for a large number of cisco products now , where before was only limited to a few. It's sad because I love cisco switches and routers, but it's a huge deterrent now with the forced licensing and support On 1/4/2023 10:50 AM, Gert Doering via cisco-nsp wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:45:51PM +, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: >> I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. > Cisco licensing shit has made us decide that we're just not going to > buy any new Cisco products. Period. > > Yes, these really look nice, and the base price is quite attractive > (guess why)... > > gert > > ___ > cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_m > ailman_listinfo_cisco-2Dnsp=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A > _CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOO > hUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=uqRG1Eseinm6yrxQLDY48bSAwK0fsRe86 > 8NE_ofnpqE= archive at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puck.nether.net_pi > permail_cisco-2Dnsp_=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnV > fiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsF > nCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=6it9k1UOikBdQrvqhRCve41ZJJGAgA88MDdg_93V > JA0= -- GloboTech Communications Phone: 1-514-907-0050 x 215 Toll Free: 1-(888)-GTCOMM1 Fax: 1-(514)-907-0750 p...@gtcomm.net https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gtcomm.net=DwICaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=OPufM5oSy-PFpzfoijO_w76wskMALE1o4LtA3tMGmuw=PRv3_-qOOhUOMZsFnCFG4uVQnPsgYPCtQl0BB_XxHpg=bzG0UW9Xxt9sq-f4YcJ6dZGUuBUNSpiDYCfDTxTZeAY= ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
Hi, On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:45:51PM +, Drew Weaver via cisco-nsp wrote: > I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. Cisco licensing shit has made us decide that we're just not going to buy any new Cisco products. Period. Yes, these really look nice, and the base price is quite attractive (guess why)... gert -- "If was one thing all people took for granted, was conviction that if you feed honest figures into a computer, honest figures come out. Never doubted it myself till I met a computer with a sense of humor." Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Gert Doering - Munich, Germany g...@greenie.muc.de signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] DNA -- How do I justify the expense to mgmt when we'll never use it?
Hello, I'm trying to put together an order for some Cisco switches. We finally settled on this one: C9300X-48TX-A and the pricing is mostly fine but then there is this line item: C9300-DNA-A-48-3Y We don't want that or at a minimum we don't want to pay for it, but the reseller (and I guess Cisco) is forcing them to sell it to us. That pushes the pricing way out of our budget per unit. Has anyone found any actual value to the DNA product? I need to justify why we're paying for something we'd never use. Off-list is fine. I know nobody wants to be like "AHhhh it's useless" on a public forum. Thanks, -Drew ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
