I'm a bit curious. My immediate reaction was to ask what you use instead of
Spring (none?), Hibernate (datomic?) and what did you use to provide the
plumbing for web apps (assuming you needed it and didn't just write it all
from scratch).
My second thought was then what is the difference
Hello all!
First i would like to mention that I'm very new to Clojure, and still
learning the language/functional programming. Mostly I'm doing web stuff,
with the usual suspects (php,ruby,python) and im usually using a framework
for RAD development.
Frameworks as they are usually implemented
I've been giving a lot of thought to frameworks and tempates lately, so
I'll share my thoughts. The goal of frameworks and templates, in my mind,
is repeatable assembly. Small, focused libraries don't get in the way of
that design goal. Frameworks and templates sit on top of the language.
Let me add a couple more thoughts. I hung out on the TurboGears project a
few years ago because I thought they were heading in a good direction.
They use templating engines (Genshi), and I like that idea. One framework;
many templates. They also made a major redesign decision mid stream, so
Great points. Also take RoR as an example: ruby, dynamic as it may be,
still relies on the notion of a class as code owner which means that the
class is the namespacing unit for all code that wants to participate in
operating on a specific data structure, such as a hash or array.
After 20-30
+1, excellent summary of the key points.
We got rid of Spring, Hibernate et cie for the same reasons. They were somewhat
needed in Java but in Clojure we found that they were cumbersome to use and
brought little value.
We realized along the way that some generated Java code (Hibernate is a good
I think there is value, but we as a community are not yet ready for it.
The problem is that the full stack endgoal is itself shifting in
definition, towards single-page apps.
There is not much appetite for the creation of a RoR clone, when the
landscape in which RoR was created has shifted so
On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:33:15 PM UTC-5, Eric MacAdie wrote:
Is there a page that gives Clojure web recipes? It would be great for
beginners if you could have one place that says To make a web app, you
need X, Y and Z, and here are libraries that fulfil each of these needs.
Maybe have
Hi Clojures, I'm new and thought I'd chime in. :-) I've been playing with
Clojure for a few weeks, built a quick Markov Chain Generator and started
rebuilding https://github.com/46Bit/_46bit my blog with Compojure.
I think there's a philosophical bent in the Clojure community toward
small,
The Clojure tradition of mixing-and-matching small libraries rather than
relying on large frameworks like Spring did not emerge by accident. The
Java language itself causes library authors to create their own types
thereby creating an impedance mismatch with other libraries. Spring (and
I've been experimenting with Clojure web services recently, and posting the
work on GitHub https://github.com/3rddog/doitnow and my
bloghttp://internistic.blogspot.ca/search/label/clojure
.
When putting this test app together, it occurred to me that most other
languages have a full-stack API
On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:52:05 PM UTC, Paul Umbers wrote:
For example, the latest vesion of Compojure (1.1.3) uses Ring 1.1.5 and
not the latest version of Ring (1.1.6) which has significantly better util
functions available - but I can't use them until Compojure catches up.
Ring 1.1.6
My oopsie. You're right, it is 1.2.0. I was looking at the current head of
master, which I guess is 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT.
As long as all projects stick to semantic versioning (a lot do), that
problem is not so great.
The other problem though is that of which libraries to choose for a
particular
I think there's a philosophical bent in the Clojure community toward
small, composable libraries, rather than monolithic pre-built
combinations - across all domains. This has come up in discussions
before, mostly around the full-stack web framework issue, and the
consensus each time seems to be
IMO there is little value in big dependency hair-balls and gui tools
leakily abstracting devop taks.
There is, however, value in curated sets of independent libriaries that
work well together. Also in having declarative syntax available for common
tasks.
Still IMO, Clojure's web story is still
I think a lot of the issues can be addressed via a good template which sets
up all the boiler plate, demonstrates idiomatic usage, and defaults to some
common libraries. I'm actively working on filling this gap with the
Luminushttp://www.luminusweb.net/,
which aims to make it easy to get
I'm somewhat allergic to ORM, favoring thin, simple data mappers instead :)
You are not alone: ORM, together with the idea of a persistent state
manager is a beautifully paved road---to hell. In the prototype phase it
gives the impression of an ideal solution: code looks just like it's
Is there a page that gives Clojure web recipes? It would be great for
beginners if you could have one place that says To make a web app, you
need X, Y and Z, and here are libraries that fulfil each of these needs.
- Eric MacAdie
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Sean Corfield
There's a pretty good page at
herokuhttps://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/clojure-web-application.
There's also this classic pagehttp://brehaut.net/blog/2011/ring_introduction:
aging, but still very relevant.
On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:33:15 PM UTC+1, Eric MacAdie wrote:
Is there a page
Thanks for the info. I will look this over, and perhaps finally build my
world-changing Clojure app. Or maybe just Hello World.
- Eric MacAdie
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Marko Topolnik marko.topol...@gmail.comwrote:
There's a pretty good page at
On Friday, 11 January 2013 12:17:35 UTC-7, Herwig Hochleitner wrote:
There is, however, value in curated sets of independent libriaries that
work well together. Also in having declarative syntax available for common
tasks.
Still IMO, Clojure's web story is still somewhat lacking on those.
Though the Clojure community has traditionally gone with smaller libraries
rather than large frameworks, there is a full-stack web framework for
Clojure called Conjure: https://github.com/macourtney/Conjure
On Friday, January 11, 2013 11:52:05 AM UTC-5, Paul Umbers wrote:
I've been
You could just do:
lein new fw1 myapp
cd myapp
lein run
assuming you have nothing running on port 8080 already - otherwise:
PORT=8123 lein run
Noir also has a simple Leiningen template (although Noir is deprecated now):
lein new noir noirapp
cd noirapp
lein run
(same caveat applies regarding
A good thought/discussion provoking post, thanks.
I find myself between two camps here. On one side and coming from the
position of both learning Clojure and coming back to web development after
a long period of mainly working on large backend database apps, the
suggestion of a nicely bundled
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