Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Sean Corfield 
That link worked. Thanks. I was on Mac but didn’t have the native app installed 
so Safari just barfed on that link.

 

Confusingly there’s a “clojurians” Discord server and a “Clojurians” server 
too. The former seems to be an old testbed set up last year to try Discord out 
as an alternative.

 

Sean Corfield -- (970) FOR-SEAN -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

 

On 5/25/17, 5:13 PM, "Luke Burton"  wrote:

 

 

On May 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Sean Corfield  wrote:

 

On 5/25/17, 12:43 PM, "Luke Burton"  wrote:


I've added the Discord invite link in this document


I gather that requires an app installed, not just a web browser? I clicked the 
link, clicked to accept the invite, and got an error about a discord:// link 
not being supported.

(this is the sort of discoverability / affordance issue that people complain 
about)

 

There are web, desktop, and mobile versions of Discord. 

 

That's a curious workflow, one I hadn't seen before because I didn't need to 
invite myself to the Discord I made :) On a Mac, here's what happened when I 
tried after clicking the link:

 

- I was bounced to a "you've been invited to join" page (with a scary look Orc 
as the background) 

- I accepted the invite

- Safari popped a "do you want to open the Discord app?" dialog

- I hit cancel

- The Discord page was still there offering me a "Continue to Discord" button 
that opened the web app

 

Not sure what platform you're on, but their attempt to pop a discord:// link is 
surely not going to work in all cases :/ 

 

If it helps, the final resting place of my browser's URL when I made it into 
the web chat is below. It's quite a fearsome URL, I'm not sure if that's a 
session ID or a globally unique link for our server.

 

https://discordapp.com/channels/313110246643990528/313110246643990528

 

Luke.

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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Luke Burton 

> On May 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> 
> On 5/25/17, 12:43 PM, "Luke Burton"  luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:
>> I've added the Discord invite link in this document
> 
> I gather that requires an app installed, not just a web browser? I clicked 
> the link, clicked to accept the invite, and got an error about a discord:// 
> link not being supported.
> 
> (this is the sort of discoverability / affordance issue that people complain 
> about)

There are web, desktop, and mobile versions of Discord. 

That's a curious workflow, one I hadn't seen before because I didn't need to 
invite myself to the Discord I made :) On a Mac, here's what happened when I 
tried after clicking the link:

- I was bounced to a "you've been invited to join" page (with a scary look Orc 
as the background) 
- I accepted the invite
- Safari popped a "do you want to open the Discord app?" dialog
- I hit cancel
- The Discord page was still there offering me a "Continue to Discord" button 
that opened the web app

Not sure what platform you're on, but their attempt to pop a discord:// link is 
surely not going to work in all cases :/ 

If it helps, the final resting place of my browser's URL when I made it into 
the web chat is below. It's quite a fearsome URL, I'm not sure if that's a 
session ID or a globally unique link for our server.

https://discordapp.com/channels/313110246643990528/313110246643990528 


Luke.

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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Oliver George 

Purely technical feature comparison seems good for shortlisting options.

How about making a selection criteria that the solution has been proven 
itself as a primary platform by one of the communities we admire.  

Possible benefits:
* Subtle features inherent in platforms will have played a role in shaping 
the community.  It'd be hard to identify/list/value them otherwise.
* Empirical way to break a tie where feature comparison is inconclusive

On Thursday, 25 May 2017 09:18:41 UTC+10, Sean Corfield wrote:
>
> I agree. There’s been a lot of hand-wringing about the potential impending 
> “Slackpocalypse” and it seems like some people think this is a problem that 
> needs to be “solved” (by consensus) – but, despite a lot of conversations 
> (in the #community-development channel on the Clojurians Slack primarily), 
> no “perfect solution” has yet been agreed… and to be honest that’s very 
> unlikely to happen: different people have different criteria for what is 
> acceptable.
>
>  
>
> Putting on my Clojurians Admin Hat, what I’d like to see happen here is 
> for each proposed “solution”:
>
>  
>
> Post a new thread on this mailing list with a subject “Slack alternative? 
> ” – with a brief overview of what the system 
> is, what platforms it runs on (including native mobile if available) and, 
> *most 
> importantly*, how to sign up and try it out for Clojure-related chatter. 
> Please include links to the service/product and other stuff you think is 
> relevant ☺
>
>  
>
> Until folks actually go and sign up and try out each service, we’re not 
> going to make progress.
>
>  
>
> As folks try each service, they can provide feedback in the relevant 
> thread – both *positive* as well as negative (constructively) please!
>
>  
>
> We’re almost certainly not going to find a *replacement* for Slack (or 
> any other communications medium) but we may find several *new, additional* 
> ways to communicate as a community.
>
>  
>
> Sean Corfield -- (970) FOR-SEAN -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
>  
>
> On 5/23/17, 6:22 PM, "Colin Yates"  on behalf of colin...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>  
>
> I've only been skimming this but "analysis paralysis" comes to mind :-). 
> What is the harm in establishing a presence in matrix (bagsy the "neo" 
> handle) and letting people know? As has been said, people will vote with 
> their feet so if in a months time matrix is a Clojure ghost town then 
> lesson learned. 
>
>  
>
> Or, if I have missed some pertinent fact then by all means, sigh, tut and 
> mutter "sheesh, these drive by commenters are annoying" :-).
>
> On Wednesday, 24 May 2017, Herwig Hochleitner  > wrote:
>
> 2017-05-23 23:04 GMT+02:00 Colin Fleming :
>
> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner  > wrote:
>
> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>
>  
>
> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> What I'm saying is, that the whole community isn't in a single place 
> anyway. Slack happens to be most popular, right now, but we are spread 
> across IRC, gitter / github, slack, mailing lists, discord, stack overflow, 
> reddit and probably many more.
>
>  
>
> IMO trying to move everybody to one thing is an exercise in futility, but 
> consuming / producing to / from all those places through a generic protocol 
> is a realistic hope, as matrix is proving right now. 
>
>  
>
> It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians, 
> though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed 
> difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is 
> also a pretty bad experience.
>
>  
>
> Granted, matrix' search facilities are far from optimal, as of now. But 
> unlike the alternatives, just about everybody could be (and somebody 
> probably is) improving on that.
>
>  
>
> There has been some talk of making a Clojure-related room directory in an 
> external webpage or something but it's still a kludge. I'm not sure to what 
> extent this would be fixed if we ran our own room server, but then someone 
> has to maintain that.
>
>  
>
> Same. This is currently being worked on: 
> https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/2454
>
>  
>
> I'd just like to mention, that in the year or so, that I've been using 
> matrix, the stream of improvements has been pretty steady. So while it 
> might not currently do everything we need, it's the best hope for bridging 
> the community across all the various services that (will continue to) exist.
>
>  
>
> 2017-05-23 23:31 GMT+02:00 Alan Moore :
>
> I watched the matrix video linked above and it seems there is a Slack 
> bridge that would allow Slack fans to stay put and others to choose their 
> own

SymbolHound search engine

2017-05-25 Thread Alex Miller 
Created an issue: https://github.com/clojure/clojure-site/issues/181

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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Sean Corfield 
On 5/25/17, 12:43 PM, "Luke Burton"  wrote:
> I've added the Discord invite link in this document

I gather that requires an app installed, not just a web browser? I clicked the 
link, clicked to accept the invite, and got an error about a discord:// link 
not being supported.

(this is the sort of discoverability / affordance issue that people complain 
about)

Sean



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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Gregg Reynolds 
On May 25, 2017 2:43 PM, "Luke Burton"  wrote:


I put together this "survey" a few days ago in the hope of starting to
collect some structured feedback on the pros and cons of each service. Very
much along the lines of what you're saying – I expect the end result would
be "people have diverse needs and each service satisfies a different need",
but it's nice to go through an exercise like this anyway, to proactively
think about what those needs are.

Unfortunately I have not had time to drive this further, but if anyone
would like to jump in and help that would be cool.

https://gist.github.com/hagmonk/284b1f2a6e5162f5b5a1b54cfa821318


here's a free hug for you ({[]}).

-g

p.s.  could we pretty please not top post?

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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

2017-05-25 Thread Luke Burton 

I put together this "survey" a few days ago in the hope of starting to collect 
some structured feedback on the pros and cons of each service. Very much along 
the lines of what you're saying – I expect the end result would be "people have 
diverse needs and each service satisfies a different need", but it's nice to go 
through an exercise like this anyway, to proactively think about what those 
needs are.

Unfortunately I have not had time to drive this further, but if anyone would 
like to jump in and help that would be cool.

https://gist.github.com/hagmonk/284b1f2a6e5162f5b5a1b54cfa821318

I've added the Discord invite link in this document in case people missed it 
the first time.

A minor Discord update:

- we have about 200 people who signed up, and around 20 people online right 
now. So, not too many folks have gone out and experimented as yet. I encourage 
people who haven't experimented to give Discord a try, it has distinct 
strengths and weaknesses compared to Slack.

- we currently feel that Discord won't elegantly scale from a UI perspective to 
many hundreds of channels, since there is no notion of "joining" a channel – 
you see all of them all the time (grouped channels are landing soon, however). 
This promotes a different channel structure compared to Slack.

- the REPL bot code is Clojail'd and the code is up on GitHub (see channel for 
link). Discord's bot capabilities are pretty slick and high speed, there's a 
ton of cool stuff we could do. I genuinely think the repl-bot is territory 
worth exploring. It would not be too hard to give it almost notebook-like 
capabilities by allowing it to render images, as bots can attach arbitrary 
documents.

- default notifications have been fixed - people were getting buzzed by default 
way too much.

Ping me in Discord at @hagus if you would like settings changed, have 
questions, want to set up your own bot, etc!


> On May 24, 2017, at 4:18 PM, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> 
> I agree. There’s been a lot of hand-wringing about the potential impending 
> “Slackpocalypse” and it seems like some people think this is a problem that 
> needs to be “solved” (by consensus) – but, despite a lot of conversations (in 
> the #community-development channel on the Clojurians Slack primarily), no 
> “perfect solution” has yet been agreed… and to be honest that’s very unlikely 
> to happen: different people have different criteria for what is acceptable.
>  
> Putting on my Clojurians Admin Hat, what I’d like to see happen here is for 
> each proposed “solution”:
>  
> Post a new thread on this mailing list with a subject “Slack alternative? 
> ” – with a brief overview of what the system is, 
> what platforms it runs on (including native mobile if available) and, most 
> importantly, how to sign up and try it out for Clojure-related chatter. 
> Please include links to the service/product and other stuff you think is 
> relevant ☺
>  
> Until folks actually go and sign up and try out each service, we’re not going 
> to make progress.
>  
> As folks try each service, they can provide feedback in the relevant thread – 
> both positive as well as negative (constructively) please!
>  
> We’re almost certainly not going to find a replacement for Slack (or any 
> other communications medium) but we may find several new, additional ways to 
> communicate as a community.
>  
> Sean Corfield -- (970) FOR-SEAN -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ 
> 
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>  
> On 5/23/17, 6:22 PM, "Colin Yates"   on behalf of colin.ya...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>  
> I've only been skimming this but "analysis paralysis" comes to mind :-). What 
> is the harm in establishing a presence in matrix (bagsy the "neo" handle) and 
> letting people know? As has been said, people will vote with their feet so if 
> in a months time matrix is a Clojure ghost town then lesson learned. 
>  
> Or, if I have missed some pertinent fact then by all means, sigh, tut and 
> mutter "sheesh, these drive by commenters are annoying" :-).
> 
> On Wednesday, 24 May 2017, Herwig Hochleitner  > wrote:
>> 2017-05-23 23:04 GMT+02:00 Colin Fleming < <>colin.mailingl...@gmail.com 
>> >:
>>> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner < <>hhochleit...@gmail.com 
>>> > wrote:
 I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>>>  
>>> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>>>  
>>  
>> What I'm saying is, that the whole community isn't in a single place anyway. 
>> Slack happens to be most popular, right now, but we are spread across IRC, 
>> gitter / github, slack, mailing lists, discord, stack overflow,

SymbolHound search engine

2017-05-25 Thread Alex Miller 
There has been some talk of updating this and adding it as a guide on 
clojure.org as a guide, which I think would be great. That would require 
permission from the author or alternately could be a clean rewrite with the 
same approach. I think it's a useful inverted complement to the reader 
reference page.

Would be happy to see this as a submission!

Alex

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Evaluation of exercises for clojure's software transactional memory

2017-05-25 Thread dlink . survey 
 

for my research project of my university, I have created some exercises I 
want to use in a learning workshop. The subject is clojure's software 
transactional memory. The exercises target people who are familar with 
programming in generel, concurrent programming and the basics of clojure. I 
only want to cover clojure's high level interfaces of the STM. I also want 
to cover the persistent data structures, atoms, watches and validators.

Now I'm searching for experts with those subjects to help me evaluate my 
exercises. I also created a survey for those who want to help me. You can 
download the survey and the exercises here: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/46qzdstltnk2cbn/Evaluation.rar?dl=0

If you want to evaluate the exercises, please keep in mind to read the 
thoroughly. Then fill out the survey and send it to my email: 
dlink.sur...@gmail.com

For those who want to help thank you.

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Re: SymbolHound search engine

2017-05-25 Thread Andy Fingerhut 
Yep, useful things, those.

"The weird and wonderful characters of Clojure" article is also linked from
the Clojure Cheat Sheet, in the Special Characters section, the link called
"tutorial":

https://clojure.org/api/cheatsheet
http://jafingerhut.github.io

Andy


On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Alan Thompson  wrote:

> Hi - Just came across a reference to a search engine *symbolhound.com
> * which explicitely *does not* ignore special
> characters.  This could be very useful in searching for Clojure literals
> like *#{}* & reader macros like *#' *which are difficult to search for
> using Google et al.
>
> Enjoy!
> Alan
>
> P.S.  If you haven't seen it yet, don't forget this nice summary:
> https://yobriefca.se/blog/2014/05/19/the-weird-and-
> wonderful-characters-of-clojure/
>
>
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SymbolHound search engine

2017-05-25 Thread Alan Thompson 
Hi - Just came across a reference to a search engine *symbolhound.com
* which explicitely *does not* ignore special
characters.  This could be very useful in searching for Clojure literals
like *#{}* & reader macros like *#' *which are difficult to search for
using Google et al.

Enjoy!
Alan

P.S.  If you haven't seen it yet, don't forget this nice summary:
https://yobriefca.se/blog/2014/05/19/the-weird-and-wonderful-characters-of-clojure/

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