Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-21 Thread Bastien
Samuel Aaron samaa...@gmail.com writes:

 To me at least, this is a worthwhile endeavour.

It certainly is!

Here is a quick intro to Overtone with Emacs and Org:
  http://bzg.fr/emacs-org-babel-overtone-intro.html

... as a thank you for this great expression medium.

-- 
 Bastien

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-20 Thread Rich Morin
On Dec 19, 2013, at 18:15, Sean Corfield wrote:
 If you think that discussion is inappropriate for this list (and I
 agree - it is), then why do you think this discussion is appropriate:
 
 Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
 make a positive impact?
 
 It seems to me this is bound to be a political or at least a very
 subjective one based on people's own moral compass and their ideology?
 As such I don't think it's a particularly useful discussion on what is
 primarily a technical list.  Perhaps post the question on Quora?  That
 seems to be very friendly toward political / moral discussions...

My problem with the Monsanto topic is not that it is political or
subjective, but that it is likely to be contentious and negative.  Other
candidates for doing something worthwhile may be arguable, but at
least they start on a positive note.

FWIW, I like John Wiseman's take on this:
 Suggestions of endeavors using clojure for something worthwhile itself
 seems like an entirely worthwhile discussion if people can resist the
 temptation to debate what worthwhile means and to disagree with other
 people's concept of worthwhile.  For example, here's a recipe for a
 useful discussion: If you know of activity X that you in good faith
 believe is worthwhile or, more specifically, (and I'm guessing at
 Rich's original intention so I could be wrong) philanthropic then
 post about X.  If you disagree with a poster about whether X is
 worthwhile, do not post.



Getting on to the question of non-technical questions on the list,
my reactions are that (a) this seems like the best place to find
information on the question I posed and (b) this is a mailing list
of Clojurists, not just a mailing list about Clojure, per se.  So,
I don't feel guilty about adding a few messages to the list.

-r

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-20 Thread Rich Morin
My initial attempts at finding an article failed, so I didn't list one
on my initial posting.  However, but it turns out that Tim O'Reilly has
a blog entry (from early 2009) on this topic:

  Work on Stuff that Matters: First Principles
  http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/01/work-on-stuff-that-matters-fir.html

FYI, his major points are:

  Work on something that matters to you more than money.

  Create more value than you capture.

  Take the long view.

-r

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-20 Thread Samuel Aaron
I personally believe that Overtone is a worthwhile project.

Whilst I totally want to see more projects that help us at least maintain and 
ideally improve the harmony of the world, I also value projects that dare to 
take us in new directions.

With Overtone, I'm attempting to ask the question can we enrich the way we 
communicate?. Live Coding with Overtone, for me at least, is a new way for me 
to communicate (via sounds) parts of me that words struggle to represent. Sure, 
I bet I could do a much richer job with a traditional musical instrument. 
However, by opening up a window to the music world for programmers, I'm 
hopefully broadening the number of people (including myself) that will be able 
to communicate in this way. Also, I'm driven by the idea that using programming 
languages as musical interfaces can take us to extraordinary places that 
traditional instruments can't currently reach.

To me at least, this is a worthwhile endeavour. 

Sam

---
http://sam.aaron.name

On 20 Dec 2013, at 20:01, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:

 My initial attempts at finding an article failed, so I didn't list one
 on my initial posting.  However, but it turns out that Tim O'Reilly has
 a blog entry (from early 2009) on this topic:
 
  Work on Stuff that Matters: First Principles
  http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/01/work-on-stuff-that-matters-fir.html
 
 FYI, his major points are:
 
  Work on something that matters to you more than money.
 
  Create more value than you capture.
 
  Take the long view.
 
 -r
 
 -- 
 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm   Rich Morin   r...@cfcl.com
 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resumeSan Bruno, CA, USA   +1 650-873-7841
 
 Software system design, development, and documentation
 
 
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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Phillip Lord

Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com writes:
 This makes me wonder about the number of Clojure-driven projects that
 meet Tim O'Reilly's notions of doing something worthwhile:

   “Pursue something so important that even if you fail,
the world is better off with you having tried.”


I never understood how flog books about technology came into that
category.

 Full disclojure: I'd love to find a Clojure-related position that meets
 this test.  More generally, however, I'd like to know about any projects
 that do so.  Suggestions, anyone?

I have done several things in my life where, at least, I am sure that
the world would not have been better off if I hadn't tried. I think this
is enough to hope for.

Phil

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Daniel Higginbotham


 I have done several things in my life where, at least, I am sure that 
 the world would not have been better off if I hadn't tried. I think this 
 is enough to hope for. 


I'm fooling around with Weather Jerk (http://www.weatherjerk.com/) in my 
spare time. It uh... solves the problem of having too many friends? 
Actually, I'm pretty sure the world would have been better if I hadn't 
tried on this one.

Also, Grateful Place (http://gratefulplace.com/). Clojure w/ liberator for 
the api server, datomic for the db, angular for the frontend and writeup 
at 
http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/building-a-forum-with-clojure-datomic-angular/.
 
I've read about studies that say taking a few minutes to express gratitude 
every day is one of the easiest ways to become happier. As programmers, we 
spend a lot of time trying to find out what's broken. Taking time for 
gratitude reorients mindset to look for positive things.

My favorite post so far is this 
one, http://gratefulplace.com/#/topics/17592186047726, which expresses 
gratitude for Pedestal documentation that makes sense ;)

Daniel

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Rich Morin
On Dec 19, 2013, at 02:36, Phillip Lord wrote:
 I never understood how flog books about technology came into that
 category.


The books are simply an artifact and technology is only one domain.
Tim has spent decades promoting the interchange of well-chosen ideas.  
For example, although Christine Peterson came up with the term Open
Source, Tim pulled together a group of key developers to discuss it,
choose it as a new meme, define talking points, etc.  He also ran a
number of industry-wide conferences (OSCON), bringing together folks
from different language communities.  He made money doing this, but
I don't hold that against him; it indicates that he was giving value.

That said, each person has to decide what things are important.  My
own career has ranged from scientific programming and documentation
to publication of free software collections.  I'm a fanboi for both
science and open source, so this fits my criteria.  YMMV.

-r

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Bruno Kim Medeiros Cesar
Being acquired by Monsanto does not invalidate The Climate Corporation's 
work, which I find extremely exciting and valuable. In fact, why would 
their work be worthwhile by your worthiness definition? They are just 
insurance sellers, after all.

Clojure itself is the ultimate worthwhile project. Even if it fails, by 
some measure of failure, the world is better with a sufficiently-functional 
language, an inspiration for future Lisp users, and a target for future JVM 
languages to aim.

On Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:49:37 AM UTC-2, Rich Morin wrote:

 I found Doug Selph's talk at Clojure/conj to be quite inspiring, in 
 that he is clearly (IMHO) doing something that is of great potential 
 value to humanity.  I used to have similar feelings about The Climate 
 Corporation, but their recent acquisition by Monsanto troubles me. 

 This makes me wonder about the number of Clojure-driven projects that 
 meet Tim O'Reilly's notions of doing something worthwhile: 

   “Pursue something so important that even if you fail, 
the world is better off with you having tried.” 

 Full disclojure: I'd love to find a Clojure-related position that meets 
 this test.  More generally, however, I'd like to know about any projects 
 that do so.  Suggestions, anyone? 

 -r 

  -- 
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 r...@cfcl.comjavascript: 
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 Software system design, development, and documentation 




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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Ben Wolfson
Why is a programming language---which one would think is in itself neutral,
being a tool that can be put to a variety of uses---more obviously
worthwhile (let alone the ultimate worthwhile thing!) than sellers of
insurance, who, after all, do, if they're honest, insulate people from what
would otherwise be inconvenient-to-catastrophic events (and thereby make
certain risks more feasible)?


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Bruno Kim Medeiros Cesar 
brunokim...@gmail.com wrote:

 Being acquired by Monsanto does not invalidate The Climate Corporation's
 work, which I find extremely exciting and valuable. In fact, why would
 their work be worthwhile by your worthiness definition? They are just
 insurance sellers, after all.

 Clojure itself is the ultimate worthwhile project. Even if it fails, by
 some measure of failure, the world is better with a sufficiently-functional
 language, an inspiration for future Lisp users, and a target for future JVM
 languages to aim.

 On Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:49:37 AM UTC-2, Rich Morin wrote:

 I found Doug Selph's talk at Clojure/conj to be quite inspiring, in
 that he is clearly (IMHO) doing something that is of great potential
 value to humanity.  I used to have similar feelings about The Climate
 Corporation, but their recent acquisition by Monsanto troubles me.

 This makes me wonder about the number of Clojure-driven projects that
 meet Tim O'Reilly's notions of doing something worthwhile:

   “Pursue something so important that even if you fail,
the world is better off with you having tried.”

 Full disclojure: I'd love to find a Clojure-related position that meets
 this test.  More generally, however, I'd like to know about any projects
 that do so.  Suggestions, anyone?

 -r

  --
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-- 
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Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks, which
may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family and social
life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks for pleasure.
[Larousse, Drink entry]

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Rich Morin
On Dec 19, 2013, at 16:02, Bruno Kim Medeiros Cesar wrote:
 Being acquired by Monsanto does not invalidate The Climate
 Corporation's work, which I find extremely exciting and
 valuable.  In fact, why would their work be worthwhile by
 your worthiness definition?  They are just insurance sellers,
 after all.

I have no argument with The Climate Corporation's business model;
my problems are with Monsanto.  That said, I don't want to dive
off into that discussion.  In fact, my comment about them should
probably have been left out of my initial posting.

Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
make a positive impact?

-r

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Sean Corfield
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:
 I have no argument with The Climate Corporation's business model;
 my problems are with Monsanto.  That said, I don't want to dive
 off into that discussion.  In fact, my comment about them should
 probably have been left out of my initial posting.

If you think that discussion is inappropriate for this list (and I
agree - it is), then why do you think this discussion is appropriate:

 Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
 make a positive impact?

It seems to me this is bound to be a political or at least a very
subjective one based on people's own moral compass and their ideology?
As such I don't think it's a particularly useful discussion on what is
primarily a technical list. Perhaps post the question on Quora? That
seems to be very friendly toward political / moral discussions...
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Alex Baranosky
Yep, positive impact is pretty much entirely opinion-based.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:
  I have no argument with The Climate Corporation's business model;
  my problems are with Monsanto.  That said, I don't want to dive
  off into that discussion.  In fact, my comment about them should
  probably have been left out of my initial posting.

 If you think that discussion is inappropriate for this list (and I
 agree - it is), then why do you think this discussion is appropriate:

  Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
  make a positive impact?

 It seems to me this is bound to be a political or at least a very
 subjective one based on people's own moral compass and their ideology?
 As such I don't think it's a particularly useful discussion on what is
 primarily a technical list. Perhaps post the question on Quora? That
 seems to be very friendly toward political / moral discussions...
 --
 Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
 An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
 World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

 Perfection is the enemy of the good.
 -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread John Wiseman
Suggestions of endeavors using clojure for something worthwhile itself
seems like an entirely worthwhile discussion if people can resist the
temptation to debate what worthwhile means and to disagree with other
people's concept of worthwhile.  For example, here's a recipe for a useful
discussion: If you know of activity X that you in good faith believe is
worthwhile or, more specifically, (and I'm guessing at RIch's original
intention so I could be wrong) philanthropic then post about X.  If you
disagree with a poster about whether X is worthwhile, do not post.

John



On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:
  I have no argument with The Climate Corporation's business model;
  my problems are with Monsanto.  That said, I don't want to dive
  off into that discussion.  In fact, my comment about them should
  probably have been left out of my initial posting.

 If you think that discussion is inappropriate for this list (and I
 agree - it is), then why do you think this discussion is appropriate:

  Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
  make a positive impact?

 It seems to me this is bound to be a political or at least a very
 subjective one based on people's own moral compass and their ideology?
 As such I don't think it's a particularly useful discussion on what is
 primarily a technical list. Perhaps post the question on Quora? That
 seems to be very friendly toward political / moral discussions...
 --
 Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
 An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
 World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

 Perfection is the enemy of the good.
 -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-19 Thread Alex Baranosky
Fair enough :)


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 10:09 PM, John Wiseman jjwise...@gmail.com wrote:

 Suggestions of endeavors using clojure for something worthwhile itself
 seems like an entirely worthwhile discussion if people can resist the
 temptation to debate what worthwhile means and to disagree with other
 people's concept of worthwhile.  For example, here's a recipe for a useful
 discussion: If you know of activity X that you in good faith believe is
 worthwhile or, more specifically, (and I'm guessing at RIch's original
 intention so I could be wrong) philanthropic then post about X.  If you
 disagree with a poster about whether X is worthwhile, do not post.

 John



 On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:
  I have no argument with The Climate Corporation's business model;
  my problems are with Monsanto.  That said, I don't want to dive
  off into that discussion.  In fact, my comment about them should
  probably have been left out of my initial posting.

 If you think that discussion is inappropriate for this list (and I
 agree - it is), then why do you think this discussion is appropriate:

  Can we get back to talking about folks who are using Clojure to
  make a positive impact?

 It seems to me this is bound to be a political or at least a very
 subjective one based on people's own moral compass and their ideology?
 As such I don't think it's a particularly useful discussion on what is
 primarily a technical list. Perhaps post the question on Quora? That
 seems to be very friendly toward political / moral discussions...
 --
 Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
 An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
 World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

 Perfection is the enemy of the good.
 -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Who is doing something worthwhile in Clojure?

2013-12-18 Thread Rich Morin
I found Doug Selph's talk at Clojure/conj to be quite inspiring, in
that he is clearly (IMHO) doing something that is of great potential
value to humanity.  I used to have similar feelings about The Climate
Corporation, but their recent acquisition by Monsanto troubles me.

This makes me wonder about the number of Clojure-driven projects that
meet Tim O'Reilly's notions of doing something worthwhile:

  “Pursue something so important that even if you fail,
   the world is better off with you having tried.”

Full disclojure: I'd love to find a Clojure-related position that meets
this test.  More generally, however, I'd like to know about any projects
that do so.  Suggestions, anyone?

-r

 -- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm   Rich Morin   r...@cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resumeSan Bruno, CA, USA   +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation


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