Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Jony Hudson jonyepsi...@gmail.com writes: On Thursday, 15 May 2014 14:58:50 UTC+1, Phillip Lord wrote: Again, based on the dubious ID that an DOI makes things citable. A URL is already citable! Well, there's no shortage of broken links out there to suggest that people have trouble keeping content associated with stable URLs. The main value of DOI, IMHO, is they're an explicit commitment to make something persistently available - just what you want for citations. Actually, they don't. I've broken quite a few DOIs in my time. What they offer is the guarantee that a DOI will not be handed out twice. So, you avoid the situation where a domain name is unregistered, someone else buys it, and the links are replaced with porn. Now, there is an explicit commitment from crossref (one of the nine bodies that hands out DOIs) over the way that the DOI resolves and what is resolves to. But the strength of this commitment comes from a social and legal agreement, not a technological one. So, URIs such as http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ offer the same guarantee of stability. Indeed, the display standard for representing DOIs is that is represented as a URI. So URIs are not intrinsincally unstable. And the W3C URL has the *big* advantage that it does not require a two-step resolution. So, the URI that you see in your browser is the URI that you use. With a DOI, the URI is a passing, ephemeral thing. DOIs are treated as some sort of magic -- figshare use the make data citable tagline largely on the basis of hey, it's got a DOI; I find this over-simplistic. DOIs have their place, but it is not everywhere, and they are not automatically better than a URI. Phil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
On Thursday, 15 May 2014 14:58:50 UTC+1, Phillip Lord wrote: Again, based on the dubious ID that an DOI makes things citable. A URL is already citable! Well, there's no shortage of broken links out there to suggest that people have trouble keeping content associated with stable URLs. The main value of DOI, IMHO, is they're an explicit commitment to make something persistently available - just what you want for citations. Jony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Hello, On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 4:42 AM, vrak...@gmail.com wrote: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? loosely related to this old thread, today I have read that github has worked out a way to stick a DOI ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier ) to a repository: https://github.com/blog/1840-improving-github-for-science it was on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7744735 . Cheers, GGhh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Giovanni Gherdovich g.gherdov...@gmail.com writes: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? loosely related to this old thread, today I have read that github has worked out a way to stick a DOI ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier ) to a repository: https://github.com/blog/1840-improving-github-for-science it was on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7744735 . Again, based on the dubious ID that an DOI makes things citable. A URL is already citable! Phil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Ben Wolfson wolf...@gmail.com writes: The idea that you can't cite websites is a conceit that ensures that academics continue to spend a 1000s of pounds a paper on puplication costs, when you can achieve much the same with a blog, some metadata and archive.org. Ah, that was good, I feel better now! The woes of academic publishing have nothing to do with the idea that you can't cite websites; MLA and Chicago style both have provisions for citing websites and I'm sure less widespread style guides do as well. Of course, it's possible to do this technically, it's a social issue mostly. Anyway, I was ranting, don't take it too seriously. Phil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Cite the URL. It's the correct identifier, it's got the relevant data on it, and it's archived in archive.org. If the journal editor or other academic tells you that you need a proper academic reference, just ignore them, because they are wrong. Phil vrak...@gmail.com writes: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? Or could a recommendation for a citation for both (especially EDN) be proposed if there isn't one currently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
I have never had to cite Clojure, but I have cited other software packages that didn't have publications. In general, if there is an actual academic publication, it's best to cite that. Frequently there isn't of course, and in those cases I've cited the web address. Cheers Chris On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:19:29 AM UTC-7, Phillip Lord wrote: Cite the URL. It's the correct identifier, it's got the relevant data on it, and it's archived in archive.org. If the journal editor or other academic tells you that you need a proper academic reference, just ignore them, because they are wrong. Phil vra...@gmail.com javascript: writes: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? Or could a recommendation for a citation for both (especially EDN) be proposed if there isn't one currently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Actually, I am not sure I would agree. For example, there are quite a few publications on Scala but most of the academic publications are about something; so, the semantics of it's type system, or the blending of function and OO or so on. So, which should you cite? Well, you could pick the language spec, of course, and scala has a very nice one (well, long anyway, haven't read it). But even this is about the semantics of the language, and not Scala as in I used Scala to do this which is about the language, the runtime and the tool chain. The idea that you can't cite websites is a conceit that ensures that academics continue to spend a 1000s of pounds a paper on puplication costs, when you can achieve much the same with a blog, some metadata and archive.org. Ah, that was good, I feel better now! Phil Christopher Small metasoar...@gmail.com writes: I have never had to cite Clojure, but I have cited other software packages that didn't have publications. In general, if there is an actual academic publication, it's best to cite that. Frequently there isn't of course, and in those cases I've cited the web address. Cheers Chris On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:19:29 AM UTC-7, Phillip Lord wrote: Cite the URL. It's the correct identifier, it's got the relevant data on it, and it's archived in archive.org. If the journal editor or other academic tells you that you need a proper academic reference, just ignore them, because they are wrong. Phil vra...@gmail.com javascript: writes: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? Or could a recommendation for a citation for both (especially EDN) be proposed if there isn't one currently? -- Phillip Lord, Phone: +44 (0) 191 222 7827 Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk School of Computing Science, http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord Room 914 Claremont Tower, skype: russet_apples Newcastle University, twitter: phillord NE1 7RU -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Phillip Lord phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.ukwrote: The idea that you can't cite websites is a conceit that ensures that academics continue to spend a 1000s of pounds a paper on puplication costs, when you can achieve much the same with a blog, some metadata and archive.org. Ah, that was good, I feel better now! The woes of academic publishing have nothing to do with the idea that you can't cite websites; MLA and Chicago style both have provisions for citing websites and I'm sure less widespread style guides do as well. -- Ben Wolfson Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks, which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks for pleasure. [Larousse, Drink entry] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
I'm not disagreeing with you. When you're talking about a language, and none of the papers specifically points to the language as a whole - that's fine. But in the case of specific software packages/programs, I think it is often better to cite a paper if it exists. For example, if I write a paper that uses BEAST in an analysis, I'm going to cite the paper for BEAST, not the BEAST website. But if I cite R, I'll cite the website (as running `citation()` from the command line suggests I should). However, I think you're generalizing a bit too strongly when it comes to academic publications. For example, BEAST2 was published in an Open Access, online only journal called PLoS ( http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003537). No paper need apply, and all of the content is CC :-) That's not to say that PLoS isn't an island of refuge in sea of ossified stodginess, or that even it couldn't be better in ways. But it's not *all* so bad, and does serve *some* purpose. Something to consider is this - citing a paper (if it exists) could be more beneficial professionally for the authors of the paper, as those things are (I think) tracked more closely. Lastly, sometimes formats have publications. For example - http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0031009. I don't know if Edn does or not though. I would just search around for one, or cite the website if you don't find it. Chris On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Ben Wolfson wolf...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Phillip Lord phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk wrote: The idea that you can't cite websites is a conceit that ensures that academics continue to spend a 1000s of pounds a paper on puplication costs, when you can achieve much the same with a blog, some metadata and archive.org. Ah, that was good, I feel better now! The woes of academic publishing have nothing to do with the idea that you can't cite websites; MLA and Chicago style both have provisions for citing websites and I'm sure less widespread style guides do as well. -- Ben Wolfson Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks, which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks for pleasure. [Larousse, Drink entry] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/pLxZPvlPHBw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
Here's a good citation for Clojure: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1408682 Thanks, Ambrose On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Christopher Small metasoar...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. When you're talking about a language, and none of the papers specifically points to the language as a whole - that's fine. But in the case of specific software packages/programs, I think it is often better to cite a paper if it exists. For example, if I write a paper that uses BEAST in an analysis, I'm going to cite the paper for BEAST, not the BEAST website. But if I cite R, I'll cite the website (as running `citation()` from the command line suggests I should). However, I think you're generalizing a bit too strongly when it comes to academic publications. For example, BEAST2 was published in an Open Access, online only journal called PLoS ( http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003537). No paper need apply, and all of the content is CC :-) That's not to say that PLoS isn't an island of refuge in sea of ossified stodginess, or that even it couldn't be better in ways. But it's not *all* so bad, and does serve *some* purpose. Something to consider is this - citing a paper (if it exists) could be more beneficial professionally for the authors of the paper, as those things are (I think) tracked more closely. Lastly, sometimes formats have publications. For example - http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0031009. I don't know if Edn does or not though. I would just search around for one, or cite the website if you don't find it. Chris On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Ben Wolfson wolf...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Phillip Lord phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk wrote: The idea that you can't cite websites is a conceit that ensures that academics continue to spend a 1000s of pounds a paper on puplication costs, when you can achieve much the same with a blog, some metadata and archive.org. Ah, that was good, I feel better now! The woes of academic publishing have nothing to do with the idea that you can't cite websites; MLA and Chicago style both have provisions for citing websites and I'm sure less widespread style guides do as well. -- Ben Wolfson Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks, which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks for pleasure. [Larousse, Drink entry] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/pLxZPvlPHBw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
citing Clojure and EDN?
For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? Or could a recommendation for a citation for both (especially EDN) be proposed if there isn't one currently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: citing Clojure and EDN?
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but the EDN spec is https://github.com/edn-format/edn and was written by Rich Hickey. Seems like that is what you should cite. I don't know what it would mean to cite Clojure - it is software, written by many people over a period of years. Rich Hickey is the sole or join copyright holder on all of it. I don't know how software like this is cited but here's one thread suggesting some ideas: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1230811. On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:42:05 PM UTC-5, vra...@gmail.com wrote: For the purposes of academic publications (in areas well outside of SIGPLAN and such), are there any preferred citations for Clojure and EDN? Or could a recommendation for a citation for both (especially EDN) be proposed if there isn't one currently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
