Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread Matthew Miller
On Wed, Oct 08, 2014 at 12:26:43AM -0400, James Antill wrote: At least one view of the model is that you have atomic upgrades, and thus. rollback/downgrades. This fits perfectly with the f21/f21/f23 release model (although rpm-ostree rebase is very surprising when it deletes your refs, you

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread Colin Walters
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014, at 12:26 AM, James Antill wrote: At least one view of the model is that you have atomic upgrades, and thus. rollback/downgrades. This fits perfectly with the f21/f21/f23 release model (although rpm-ostree rebase is very surprising when it deletes your refs, you can still

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread Joe Brockmeier
On 10/08/2014 08:55 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: I agree. And since we're making the packages from which the Atomic versions will be composed, what's the _downside_ of making releases available as distinct releases? Since it's produced from RPMs that we're making automatically, isn't it basically

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread James Antill
On Wed, 2014-10-08 at 00:41 -0400, Michael Hampton wrote: On 10/08/2014 12:26 AM, James Antill wrote: I would also disagree strongly that RHEL will ever follow this model. I would bet a huge amount of money that if customers are using the official trees at all then enough of them will be

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread Matthew Miller
On Wed, Oct 08, 2014 at 09:19:41AM -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote: I see a few downsides: * Having to test multiple releases. Not sure that quite fits under very little effort. (Maybe someday when we have automated testing, that will be different.) I'm not sure that follows... we'll have to test

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-08 Thread Joe Brockmeier
On 10/08/2014 09:36 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Wed, Oct 08, 2014 at 09:19:41AM -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote: I see a few downsides: * Having to test multiple releases. Not sure that quite fits under very little effort. (Maybe someday when we have automated testing, that will be different.)

Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-07 Thread Joe Brockmeier
Hey all, One of the things that came out of the weekly meeting with infra/releng and folks working on Atomic is what I think may be a mis-match in expectations on upgrades/release process for the Atomic host. As called out in the host definition[1] Atomic is planned as a rolling stream of

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-07 Thread James Antill
On Tue, 2014-10-07 at 17:33 -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote: Hey all, One of the things that came out of the weekly meeting with infra/releng and folks working on Atomic is what I think may be a mis-match in expectations on upgrades/release process for the Atomic host. As called out in the

Re: Atomic Updates - do we follow traditional model or a new one?

2014-10-07 Thread Michael Hampton
On 10/08/2014 12:26 AM, James Antill wrote: I would also disagree strongly that RHEL will ever follow this model. I would bet a huge amount of money that if customers are using the official trees at all then enough of them will be willing to pay for rhel8 after rhel9 goes live that it'll just