Stus-List Re: fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Martin:

 

I feel your Bruckmann-induced pain.

 

Matt

1976 C 42 Custom

 

From: Martin DeYoung via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:30 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; Martin DeYoung

Subject: Stus-List Re: fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

 

Joe,

 

Have you sounded the deck with a tapping hammer?  If the balsa core has
separated from the laminate it will sound dull.

 

The balsa core supplier Baltek has much good info on their web site
regarding the effect of wet balsa.  IIRC the balsa can be quite wet and
still retain significant strength.  Much of Calypso's wet balsa had been
left to its own devices for so long it had created an acetic swampy soup of
rotted balsa and acid attacked polyester.  The liquid was so acetic that it
instantly corroded tools used to removed the damaged laminate. 

 

When I was repairing the aprox 20 sq ft of Calypso's cored deck that had
failed I noticed water ran significant distances along channels between the
balsa sections and where Bruckmann's had run 12v wires through balsa
channels within the deck laminate.  Also, the "stick built" interior
bulkhead attachment process left channels between the plywood bulkhead and
the deck or hull.  Water from various sources traveled through these
channels then wicked up the plywood bulkhead.  We repaired/replaced aprox 14
linear feet of plywood bulkhead.  In most cases the water only wicked up 12"
to 16".

 

I also noticed that the damp balsa around the perimeter of the repair area
only dried where exposed.  If you want to insure all damp balsa is dried or
removed/replaced you may need to expand the repair area.

 

We performed most of Calypso's deck repairs from inside.  As we kept Calypso
in its marina slip during the work we needed to avoid the appearance of
performing "major" repairs in the water.  By staying below deck we reduced
the noise and dust considerably.  If we had been hauled out working from
above would have been easier and faster.

 

Martin DeYoung

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle/Port Townsend's yard

 

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:56 AM
To: Stus-List  
Cc: Della Barba, Joe  
Subject: Stus-List fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

 

I got a Klein moisture meter from Amazon and decided to give it a go. Plenty
of areas I thought might have high readings did not. Most of the deck seems
to be in the 1%-6% range.  The one area with a high reading is not near any
penetrations, I cannot figure it out. Forward of the mast and aft of the
forward hatch there is an area about 1 or 2 square feet that reads high
enough to peg the meter at 40%! The wet area does not extend to either the
mast or the hatch, it does not seem to come from either one. The deck does
not feel obviously mushy either, it just looks crazed in that spot. The only
real way to feel anything different is in the cabin, the liner seems
detached if you press up on it. This is basically in the passageway forward
around the hanging locker.

 

Now the question is what next? Do I cut the deck off from above or repair
from below? My feeling is working from above will be 100 times easier until
the very last step of making the deck look not cup apart at the end. I still
have no idea how water could get there except possibly the vents that are
over the head and hanging locker. The original dorades put in before we got
the boat were very poorly done, I had to do a lot of sealing and filling
with epoxy when I put the solar vents in. It would require water to run
uphill and aft though

 

Joe

Coquina

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: UFO NOISE

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

Jim, I think this may be a hearing issue 

Paul

From: Jim Watts via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 12:41:56 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Jim Watts 
Subject: Stus-List Re: UFO NOISE

I have the same issue, I "fix" it by Velcro lashing an extended boathook up the 
port shrouds. I have to have it just right, otherwise it only reduces it 
slightly.
Drives me nuts.


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 18:24, Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Doug,

Operative words..."only with a wind blowing"...it is most likely the rig 
singing to you so how do you stop itit did on my boat when I was on a 
mooring...first I changed the rig tuning (shroud tension loosened off a 
little)worked for a while but not completelyreset shroud tension and 
then took ordinary white tape and wrapped it around my 4 shrouds (6 to 8 wraps 
per shroud)  approx. 8' feet from the deck...silence.

Probably not a UFO causing your rig singing...now you have to figure out how to 
stop the rig from resonating in the wind?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 2021-05-18 9:18 p.m., Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List wrote:
For the past couple of months I have had a harmonic noise that sounds like a 
UFO. It appears to be coming from the mast, but only with a wind blowing, light 
or otherwise.
Being moored across the bay from Puget Sound Naval Shipyard first few  times I 
heard it, had me looking outside for UFOs. I don't think its wind in the 
rigging.
It just started this year when I got back from my 5 month road trip to Florida.
Is Rebecca Leah punishing me for being gone so long?


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

Doug Mountjoy
Port Orchard YC
Port Orchard,  WA
Rebecca Leah
1988 LF39




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

[Dave S via CnC-List]

I am moved to remark on the wonderful descriptive writing.

" an acetic swampy soup of rotted balsa and acid attacked polyester"

5 C stars for that one!

Dave



On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 18:30, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Joe,
>
>
>
> Have you sounded the deck with a tapping hammer?  If the balsa core has
> separated from the laminate it will sound dull.
>
>
>
> The balsa core supplier Baltek has much good info on their web site
> regarding the effect of wet balsa.  IIRC the balsa can be quite wet and
> still retain significant strength.  Much of Calypso’s wet balsa had been
> left to its own devices for so long it had created an acetic swampy soup of
> rotted balsa and acid attacked polyester.  The liquid was so acetic that it
> instantly corroded tools used to removed the damaged laminate.
>
>
>
> When I was repairing the aprox 20 sq ft of Calypso’s cored deck that had
> failed I noticed water ran significant distances along channels between the
> balsa sections and where Bruckmann’s had run 12v wires through balsa
> channels within the deck laminate.  Also, the “stick built” interior
> bulkhead attachment process left channels between the plywood bulkhead and
> the deck or hull.  Water from various sources traveled through these
> channels then wicked up the plywood bulkhead.  We repaired/replaced aprox
> 14 linear feet of plywood bulkhead.  In most cases the water only wicked up
> 12” to 16”.
>
>
>
> I also noticed that the damp balsa around the perimeter of the repair area
> only dried where exposed.  If you want to insure all damp balsa is dried or
> removed/replaced you may need to expand the repair area.
>
>
>
> We performed most of Calypso’s deck repairs from inside.  As we kept
> Calypso in its marina slip during the work we needed to avoid the
> appearance of performing “major” repairs in the water.  By staying below
> deck we reduced the noise and dust considerably.  If we had been hauled out
> working from above would have been easier and faster.
>
>
>
> Martin DeYoung
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C 43
>
> Seattle/Port Townsend’s yard
>
>
>
> *From: *Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> *Sent: *Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:56 AM
> *To: *Stus-List 
> *Cc: *Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject: *Stus-List fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot
>
>
>
> I got a Klein moisture meter from Amazon and decided to give it a go.
> Plenty of areas I thought might have high readings did not. Most of the
> deck seems to be in the 1%-6% range.  The one area with a high reading is
> not near any penetrations, I cannot figure it out. Forward of the mast and
> aft of the forward hatch there is an area about 1 or 2 square feet that
> reads high enough to peg the meter at 40%! The wet area does not extend to
> either the mast or the hatch, it does not seem to come from either one. The
> deck does not feel obviously mushy either, it just looks crazed in that
> spot. The only real way to feel anything different is in the cabin, the
> liner seems detached if you press up on it. This is basically in the
> passageway forward around the hanging locker.
>
>
>
> Now the question is what next? Do I cut the deck off from above or repair
> from below? My feeling is working from above will be 100 times easier until
> the very last step of making the deck look not cup apart at the end. I
> still have no idea how water could get there except possibly the vents that
> are over the head and hanging locker. The original dorades put in before we
> got the boat were very poorly done, I had to do a lot of sealing and
> filling with epoxy when I put the solar vents in. It would require water to
> run uphill and aft though
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Joe,

Have you sounded the deck with a tapping hammer?  If the balsa core has 
separated from the laminate it will sound dull.

The balsa core supplier Baltek has much good info on their web site regarding 
the effect of wet balsa.  IIRC the balsa can be quite wet and still retain 
significant strength.  Much of Calypso’s wet balsa had been left to its own 
devices for so long it had created an acetic swampy soup of rotted balsa and 
acid attacked polyester.  The liquid was so acetic that it instantly corroded 
tools used to removed the damaged laminate.

When I was repairing the aprox 20 sq ft of Calypso’s cored deck that had failed 
I noticed water ran significant distances along channels between the balsa 
sections and where Bruckmann’s had run 12v wires through balsa channels within 
the deck laminate.  Also, the “stick built” interior bulkhead attachment 
process left channels between the plywood bulkhead and the deck or hull.  Water 
from various sources traveled through these channels then wicked up the plywood 
bulkhead.  We repaired/replaced aprox 14 linear feet of plywood bulkhead.  In 
most cases the water only wicked up 12” to 16”.

I also noticed that the damp balsa around the perimeter of the repair area only 
dried where exposed.  If you want to insure all damp balsa is dried or 
removed/replaced you may need to expand the repair area.

We performed most of Calypso’s deck repairs from inside.  As we kept Calypso in 
its marina slip during the work we needed to avoid the appearance of performing 
“major” repairs in the water.  By staying below deck we reduced the noise and 
dust considerably.  If we had been hauled out working from above would have 
been easier and faster.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle/Port Townsend’s yard

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:56 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Stus-List fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

I got a Klein moisture meter from Amazon and decided to give it a go. Plenty of 
areas I thought might have high readings did not. Most of the deck seems to be 
in the 1%-6% range.  The one area with a high reading is not near any 
penetrations, I cannot figure it out. Forward of the mast and aft of the 
forward hatch there is an area about 1 or 2 square feet that reads high enough 
to peg the meter at 40%! The wet area does not extend to either the mast or the 
hatch, it does not seem to come from either one. The deck does not feel 
obviously mushy either, it just looks crazed in that spot. The only real way to 
feel anything different is in the cabin, the liner seems detached if you press 
up on it. This is basically in the passageway forward around the hanging locker.

Now the question is what next? Do I cut the deck off from above or repair from 
below? My feeling is working from above will be 100 times easier until the very 
last step of making the deck look not cup apart at the end. I still have no 
idea how water could get there except possibly the vents that are over the head 
and hanging locker. The original dorades put in before we got the boat were 
very poorly done, I had to do a lot of sealing and filling with epoxy when I 
put the solar vents in. It would require water to run uphill and aft though

Joe
Coquina

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

[John Christopher via CnC-List]

I am a licensed plumber - you would be very surprised how determined water is 
at getting “up” into things using the right wind angle, etc.


/John

> On May 20, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I got a Klein moisture meter from Amazon and decided to give it a go. Plenty 
> of areas I thought might have high readings did not. Most of the deck seems 
> to be in the 1%-6% range.  The one area with a high reading is not near any 
> penetrations, I cannot figure it out. Forward of the mast and aft of the 
> forward hatch there is an area about 1 or 2 square feet that reads high 
> enough to peg the meter at 40%! The wet area does not extend to either the 
> mast or the hatch, it does not seem to come from either one. The deck does 
> not feel obviously mushy either, it just looks crazed in that spot. The only 
> real way to feel anything different is in the cabin, the liner seems detached 
> if you press up on it. This is basically in the passageway forward around the 
> hanging locker.
>  
> Now the question is what next? Do I cut the deck off from above or repair 
> from below? My feeling is working from above will be 100 times easier until 
> the very last step of making the deck look not cup apart at the end. I still 
> have no idea how water could get there except possibly the vents that are 
> over the head and hanging locker. The original dorades put in before we got 
> the boat were very poorly done, I had to do a lot of sealing and filling with 
> epoxy when I put the solar vents in. It would require water to run uphill and 
> aft though
>  
> Joe
> Coquina
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List fun with moisture meter and how/if to fix wet spot

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I got a Klein moisture meter from Amazon and decided to give it a go. Plenty of 
areas I thought might have high readings did not. Most of the deck seems to be 
in the 1%-6% range.  The one area with a high reading is not near any 
penetrations, I cannot figure it out. Forward of the mast and aft of the 
forward hatch there is an area about 1 or 2 square feet that reads high enough 
to peg the meter at 40%! The wet area does not extend to either the mast or the 
hatch, it does not seem to come from either one. The deck does not feel 
obviously mushy either, it just looks crazed in that spot. The only real way to 
feel anything different is in the cabin, the liner seems detached if you press 
up on it. This is basically in the passageway forward around the hanging locker.

Now the question is what next? Do I cut the deck off from above or repair from 
below? My feeling is working from above will be 100 times easier until the very 
last step of making the deck look not cup apart at the end. I still have no 
idea how water could get there except possibly the vents that are over the head 
and hanging locker. The original dorades put in before we got the boat were 
very poorly done, I had to do a lot of sealing and filling with epoxy when I 
put the solar vents in. It would require water to run uphill and aft though

Joe
Coquina
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: An Introduction

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My foredeck cow was abducted by a UFO, so there is that.

Joe
Coquina
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: UFO NOISE

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I have the same issue, I "fix" it by Velcro lashing an extended boathook up
the port shrouds. I have to have it just right, otherwise it only reduces
it slightly.
Drives me nuts.


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 18:24, Robert Abbott via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Doug,
>
> Operative words..."only with a wind blowing"...it is most likely the rig
> singing to you so how do you stop itit did on my boat when I was on
> a mooring...first I changed the rig tuning (shroud tension loosened off a
> little)worked for a while but not completelyreset shroud tension
> and then took ordinary white tape and wrapped it around my 4 shrouds (6 to
> 8 wraps per shroud)  approx. 8' feet from the deck...silence.
>
> Probably not a UFO causing your rig singing...now you have to figure out
> how to stop the rig from resonating in the wind?
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - #277
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2021-05-18 9:18 p.m., Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List wrote:
>
> For the past couple of months I have had a harmonic noise that sounds like
> a UFO. It appears to be coming from the mast, but only with a wind blowing,
> light or otherwise.
> Being moored across the bay from Puget Sound Naval Shipyard first few
> times I heard it, had me looking outside for UFOs. I don't think its wind
> in the rigging.
> It just started this year when I got back from my 5 month road trip to
> Florida.
> Is Rebecca Leah punishing me for being gone so long?
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> Doug Mountjoy
> Port Orchard YC
> Port Orchard,  WA
> Rebecca Leah
> 1988 LF39
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: An Introduction

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Welcome, Hans

Good to see you found the list.

We're not all that much into UFO's.  We much prefer to discuss foredeck
cows.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 10:40 PM David Risch via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Welcome Hans.  Ignore the UFO believers.  We just humor them and they
> eventually settle down.
>
> Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.
>
> --
> *From:* M. Hans Liebert via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:33:23 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* M. Hans Liebert 
> *Subject:* Stus-List An Introduction
>
> Hello Skippers,
>
> Thank you for allowing us to join the group. We are on the hard for the
> summer, repairing our storm damaged boat. For now, Ill just share, we have
> not had any UFO sounds aboard.
>
> ~Hans
> SV Inconceivable
> Corvette 31 #138
> Brooklyn, NY
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu