On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
>> Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this information
>> in your original e-mail:
>
> No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was
> the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told
>
On 12 Jan 2009, at 7:39 pm, Donnie Lee wrote:
Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to
emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by
itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls.
Mate, honestly. Just get over this irrational fear and use BWTool
On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
Plus, this thread has been more entertaining than paying diligent
attention in my Principles of Statistics class... ;)
What, you're reading cocoa-dev instead of doing what you're SUPPOSED
to be doing? I'd tell you how shocked I am, but my boss
None taken. I really "got" Cocoa while working on iPhone, so
understanding what ButtonCells actually do and how they work are still
things I haven't gotten to yet. That's why my first idea (after
understanding the question) was to go look at firstResponder stuff.
Plus, this thread has bee
No offense, Dave -- you've been very generous with your time and
advice (while also, of course, satisfying your own curiosity :)) --
but I personally would use I. Savant's original "too dirty"
suggestion, which can be implemented in three lines:
@implementation MyButton
- (void)drawRect:(
Anyone who has been developing Apple/Mac software for more than a few years
can attest that Apple occasionally changes the way that some UI elements
look, in some ways very subtle and in other ways major, and relying upon a
current side-effect of one UI element to look like another element can caus
Donnie Lee wrote:
Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this
information
in your original e-mail:
No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. ...
The problem is, that when you go to people more experienced than you
are to ask a "simple technical question" and peopl
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> Some people told me something like "Don't do it because I don't like that
> you do it.
Nobody said any such thing.
Those who told you not to do it gave *valid technical reasons* why
this is a bad idea (one of which you acknowledged) and
>>> Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl.
>>
>> Looks nice, but how to align an image in segment, how to implement
>> imageDimsWhenDisabled and how to choose button style (I need a pop-up
>> button there, I found how to add a menu to segment but triangle is not
>> appears)?
>
> H
On 12 Jan 2009, at 20:56:56, Donnie Lee wrote:
Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl.
Looks nice, but how to align an image in segment, how to implement
imageDimsWhenDisabled and how to choose button style (I need a pop-up
button there, I found how to add a menu to segment b
While my answer may be "best", now that I know what you're planning to
do with it, I would still suggest that you use something like
Brandon's BWToolkit. Your phobia of third-party controls will just
make life difficult for you. For example: you just spent 10 hours
trying to replicate a
Kind regards and gratitude, Dave!
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
> From what I understand about responders, removing first responder guarantees
> that the control will never be able to accept the focus, because accepting
> the focus would make the control first responder. S
> Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this information
> in your original e-mail:
No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was
the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told
me something like "Don't do it because I don't like that you
> Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl.
Looks nice, but how to align an image in segment, how to implement
imageDimsWhenDisabled and how to choose button style (I need a pop-up
button there, I found how to add a menu to segment but triangle is not
appears)?
_
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to
> emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by
> itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls.
Look at NSSegmentedControl.
--Kyle Sluder
_
From what I understand about responders, removing first responder
guarantees that the control will never be able to accept the focus,
because accepting the focus would make the control first responder.
So no; nothing would be able to make this behave as normal button.
Dave
On Jan 12, 2009
It's exactly what I need, Dave. Thank you!
A small question: there is "Enable access for assistive devices" in
Universal Access, what do you think, can any of these devices treat my
fake button as a real button (even if the button don't accepts "first
responder")? Or removing first responder from a
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> Using gradient buttons is much easier because the controls is already
> there, so I don't need to create controls by myself or use 3rd party
> code.
...
> Yes, but, as I said before, the controls is already there and I
> planned to use them to
> He's also a little hung up on premature optimization. Knuth would not be
> pleased.
>
> Donnie,
>
> What "system resources" are you trying to "free up" ?? And why??
Don't take it to heart. It was just a hypothesis that I can save some
resources by setting the button to disabled state. People her
@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of
Donnie Lee
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:45 PM
To: Jean-Daniel Dupas
Cc: Cocoa Developers
Subject: Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
> Then the window object try to resolve the target responder.
>
> Each NSView is a responder. I really don't understand how
>> I planned to use it to emulate
>> gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in
>> Mail.app.
>
> Is THAT all?! :-D
>
> In an attempt to avoid using your own (or third-party) code that
> very specifically and efficiently addresses the problem (because of
> some strange phobia)
On 12 Jan 2009, at 19:39:29, Donnie Lee wrote:
I see there is unavoidable problem with my "fake" button and
Accessibility tools which may happens. I planned to use it to emulate
gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in
Mail.app. I created three buttons, two gradient action
He's also a little hung up on premature optimization. Knuth would not
be pleased.
Donnie,
What "system resources" are you trying to "free up" ?? And why??
Rob
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:47 AM, I. Savant wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
I am curious to know more about
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
>> So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything?
>
> Exactly.
>
>> In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything...
>
> Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers
> to save syst
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> Are you 100% sure that disabled and enabled buttons takes
> identical amount of system resources?
YES.
--
I.S.
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On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> I planned to use it to emulate
> gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in
> Mail.app.
Is THAT all?! :-D
In an attempt to avoid using your own (or third-party) code that
very specifically and efficiently addresses the
I'll also point out that this will work for any NSButton flavor
(checkboxes, help, recessed, etc). I just did some further testing to
make sure that these buttons refuse the focus, and they definitely
don't accept being first responder. I created an interface with a
bunch of normal button
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
>> I am curious to know more about theses "system observers". Can you explain
>> us what is it ?
>
> Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc.
You should probably read this:
http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Cocoa/C
> Then the window object try to resolve the target responder.
>
> Each NSView is a responder. I really don't understand how you're trying to
> reduce system resource usage.
Hmm, I don't know internals of Cocoa, I hypothesized that putting a
button in a disabled state can remove focus areas handled
> There is a reason *why* disabled buttons have a different appearance. The
> members of this list are curious as to why you would want to override that.
> And yes, if you don't have a good reason they will certainly point that out.
I see there is unavoidable problem with my "fake" button and
Acc
Le 12 janv. 09 à 20:24, Donnie Lee a écrit :
I am curious to know more about theses "system observers". Can you
explain
us what is it ?
Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc.
Hardware event are received by the kernel that send them to the window
server that forw
> I am curious to know more about theses "system observers". Can you explain
> us what is it ?
Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc.
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> But it will still visually respond to mouse clicks, which is not desired, in
> my interpretation of the problem statement. [[theButton cell]
> setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask] presumably takes care of that -- but then the
> user might still be able to select the button by tabbing to it.
Hmm, this
Le 12 janv. 09 à 19:43, Donnie Lee a écrit :
So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything?
Exactly.
In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything...
Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers
to save system resources pu
Aha, I see what you're saying. Well, I just played around with this,
and subclassing an NSButton as follows will create a button that looks
enabled but won't respond to mouse clicks and also won't allow users
to tab to the button (ie, disallows the focus):
@interface FakeButton : NSButton
On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:57:54, Donnie Lee wrote:
The main problem that people think that I try something stupid.
Instead of technical discussion they try to teach me what should I do
and how should I do it. Like a religious zombies, seriously.
Donnie.
If someone was trying to build a car with
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Donnie Lee wrote:
The main problem that people think that I try something stupid.
Instead of technical discussion they try to teach me what should I do
and how should I do it. Like a religious zombies, seriously.
But they did ask valid questions, because you are
There is a reason *why* disabled buttons have a different appearance.
The members of this list are curious as to why you would want to
override that. And yes, if you don't have a good reason they will
certainly point that out.
-rob.
On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
Because
On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:54:19, Donnie Lee wrote:
You read too much Tolkien. It's hard to me to trace which messages
sent to list and which is not because crazy lists.apple.com software
didn't provide "reply-to" field and I enter "to" address manually.
PS: Now only "reply to all" button.
Ever h
But it will still visually respond to mouse clicks, which is not
desired, in my interpretation of the problem statement. [[theButton
cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask] presumably takes care of that --
but then the user might still be able to select the button by tabbing
to it.
If a sing
More often than not, optimizing a user's experience should be the
larger concern than worrying about an NSButton's memory footprint.
-rob.
On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything?
Exactly.
In that case, just don't
> Because, to be blunt, it appears that you're trying to do something
> stupid, and the people on this list are trying to help you find a
> better way to do whatever it is that you're trying to do.
The main problem that people think that I try something stupid.
Instead of technical discussion they
You read too much Tolkien. It's hard to me to trace which messages
sent to list and which is not because crazy lists.apple.com software
didn't provide "reply-to" field and I enter "to" address manually.
PS: Now only "reply to all" button.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Andy Lee wrote:
> On Jan
> So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything?
Exactly.
> In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything...
Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers
to save system resources putting it in disabled state.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
>> As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish?
>
> I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button
> :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and
> more???!!!
Because, to be blunt, it app
On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
Maybe people ask because they're trying to help?
Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your
questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in
list.
Please don't reply to me on the list when I've specific
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> That's not better than my way.
...
> Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your
> questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in
> list.
Ugh ... READ: http://www.slash7.com/pages/vampires
--
s.apple.com
[mailto:cocoa-dev-bounces+jmunson=his@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of
Donnie Lee
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:21 PM
To: Cocoa Developers
Subject: Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
> As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish?
I try to create a dis
So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything?
In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything...
Dave
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Donnie Lee wrote:
That's not better than my way. I never need to handle events from
this button.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button
> :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and
> more???!!!
Seriously?
A solution has already been handed to you - one which you rejected
because it doe
> Maybe people ask because they're trying to help?
Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your
questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in
list.
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Plea
That's not better than my way. I never need to handle events from this button.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
> Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then override
> the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following:
...
> Do the same for mouseUp,
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Donnie Lee wrote:
As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish?
I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button
:))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and
more???!!!
Because, frankly, that doesn't make a
Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then
override the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following:
-(void)mouseDown:(NSEvent*)event{
if (fakeEnabled==NO){
[super mouseDown:event];
}
}
Do the same for mouseUp, and just have a getter and setter for
fakeE
> As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish?
I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button
:))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and
more???!!!
Donnie.
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On Jan 12, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
"The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to
interact
with a user at all."
This is exactly the point Ricky was making. If a button never works
*by design*, a button is the wrong choice for a UI element
I don't like to discuss i
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
>> you'd need to override the button's
>> drawing to always draw the enabled state, ignoring the control's
>> actual state.
>
> Too "dirty" solution.
>
:-D That's immensely entertaining.
--
I.S.
>> "The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact
>> with a user at all."
>
> This is exactly the point Ricky was making. If a button never works
> *by design*, a button is the wrong choice for a UI element
I don't like to discuss ideological part of the thing, I ask only
a
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
> I again forgot that "reply" button reply to sender not to the list,
> crazy lists.apple.com! Here is my answer to Ricky:
>
> "The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact
> with a user at all."
This is exactly the poi
I again forgot that "reply" button reply to sender not to the list,
crazy lists.apple.com! Here is my answer to Ricky:
"The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact
with a user at all."
Cocoa Developers
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Luca wrote:
> I agree with Ricky.
I agree with Ricky. Why do you need this?
By the way, think the better way is to subclass the NSButton,
overriding the -mouseDown method. Do not call -[super mouseDown:], and
it's done - your button will not be drawed.
-- Luca C.
On 12 Jan 09, at 13:46, Ricky Sharp wrote:
Do not do this. U
Do not do this. Users will be very frustrated when they cannot
interact with that button.
Why do you think you need this?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:55 AM, Donnie Lee wrote:
Hi!
I'd like to create a disabled button that looks like enabled. If I
just set enabled to "no", I g
Hi!
I'd like to create a disabled button that looks like enabled. If I
just set enabled to "no", I got grayed button. Instead I do
[[theButton cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask]; and it looks like
disabled but continues to receive events. Is there a way to make a
disabled button that looks like e
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