Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
just to mention, I don't think Less works with jruby, so if you use Bootstrap, you have to use the static assets and can't use the generators... On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: I have not used Foundation, but from what I can see, it offers a subset of the features that you get with Bootstrap. I suppose that's what they mean by light framework. The idea that it is designed to be overridden is a bit of a strange claim as I don't see how it's any different from overriding any other base stylesheet. I've been overriding styles in Bootstrap simply by creating an override.css file from the beginning. We are currently in the last stages of the prototype phase for our Finding Aids site and will be going into beta soon. It currently looks like a Bootstrap site, hence the samification that the List Apart article mentions, and I will soon need to Princeton-ify it (aka tiger style). I think that the transition to a custom site that stands out from other Bootstrap sites is not particularly easy if you've been using Bootstrap out of the box and overriding it like I've been doing. This is because there are standard/shared colors and styles that are set as variables in Less. It's a lot more laborious to go through and override these manually than simply change the variables in Less. If you are interested in using Bootstrap, I would recommend designing a style guide (or UI pattern library, as Matthew called it) for your own institution and building it with Less, which is my next step. This guide will provide me and my colleagues custom variations on components, but I plan to maintain the architecture of the Bootstrap site. I just love how organized it is, and how easy it is to simply copy code from the examples. Furthermore, it will be easier to keep such a style guide in sync with future Bootstrap versions. I'm currently putting off upgrading to Bootstrap 2.0 because they changed the default grid and I didn't start the project using Less. Finally, other developers at your institution can use the same custom guide as easily as they would the Bootstrap site for grabbing and quickly implementing their design conventions. I don't regret not using Less out of the gate since it was pretty foreign to me at the time, and I really just wanted to get going quickly with prototyping the architecture. Cheers, Shaun On 5/11/12 9:27 AM, Joseph Gilbert wrote: Hi Jessie, I've used Bootstrap more than Foundation, but both are solid choices. There are some relatively minor differences: Bootstrap uses LESS while Foundation is CSS with an officially supported SASS version; Bootstrap has a few more JS widgets thrown in. One philosophical distinction seems to lie in the it’s designed to be overridden line in the article Tom mentions. Bootstrap looks good right out of the box, but the underlying styles are also a bit more complex and therefore sometimes require a little more effort to tweak. Bootstrap out-of-the-box and without customizations--a bit like jQueryUI before it--is already starting to seem hackneyed, but assuming you all will be doing institutional customizations, either library, I think, will give you a good starting point. Best, Joe -- Joseph Gilbert User Experience Web Developer University of Virginia Library On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Tom Keaystomke...@gmail.com wrote: I read this awhile back. It's by someone associated with the Foundation project. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dive-into-responsive-prototyping-with-foundation/ Both look good. Like you, I looked hard at Bootstrap after the conference, but haven't really done anything with it. I'd be interested which framework you settle on. On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keckjk...@stanford.edu wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library,
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
I read this awhile back. It's by someone associated with the Foundation project. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dive-into-responsive-prototyping-with-foundation/ Both look good. Like you, I looked hard at Bootstrap after the conference, but haven't really done anything with it. I'd be interested which framework you settle on. On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keck jk...@stanford.edu wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
Hi Jessie, I've used Bootstrap more than Foundation, but both are solid choices. There are some relatively minor differences: Bootstrap uses LESS while Foundation is CSS with an officially supported SASS version; Bootstrap has a few more JS widgets thrown in. One philosophical distinction seems to lie in the it’s designed to be overridden line in the article Tom mentions. Bootstrap looks good right out of the box, but the underlying styles are also a bit more complex and therefore sometimes require a little more effort to tweak. Bootstrap out-of-the-box and without customizations--a bit like jQueryUI before it--is already starting to seem hackneyed, but assuming you all will be doing institutional customizations, either library, I think, will give you a good starting point. Best, Joe -- Joseph Gilbert User Experience Web Developer University of Virginia Library On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Tom Keays tomke...@gmail.com wrote: I read this awhile back. It's by someone associated with the Foundation project. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dive-into-responsive-prototyping-with-foundation/ Both look good. Like you, I looked hard at Bootstrap after the conference, but haven't really done anything with it. I'd be interested which framework you settle on. On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keck jk...@stanford.edu wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
Hi Jessie, We've been using Bootstrap for a couple of our projects at Talis and I have been incredibly pleased with it. I have zero design sense (designed by East German engineers for East German engineers - no offense to East German engineers), and Bootstrap manages to make my clumsy, ham-handed, functionality-first-aesthetic-never designs, look decent (even if they *all* look like Twitter's demo app). If I can do nothing else, design-wise, I can add to 12 (usually). I haven't used Foundation, but that being said, looking over the documentation for it, I don't see any fundamental differences between it or Bootstrap functionality-wise. What I *do* see, offhand, is much better documentation regarding the css being introduced. Bootstrap's documentation is (overall) pretty good, but I feel there are TONS of UI thingies in the css that aren't mentioned in the docs and my desire to trawl through the css and try things (or understand by looking at it) just isn't there. So, basically, I think it doesn't make much of a difference either way, but the documentation-thing *seems* (at-a-glance) to possibly favor Foundation (although Bootstrap may be better in the things it has documentation for - not sure). -Ross. On May 10, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keck wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
Jessie, Bootstrap and Foundation were a bit overkill for our needs, so we rolled our own UI pattern library for CSS based on the MailChimp UI Pattern Library: http://gvsu.edu/library/ui It's on Github, if you want a closer look: https://github.com/gvsulib/UI-Patterns -- --- Matthew Reidsma Web Librarian @ gvsu.edu/library 616-331-3577 :: @mreidsma Why is this email so short? :: http://matthewreidsma.com/email On Friday, May 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ross Singer wrote: Hi Jessie, We've been using Bootstrap for a couple of our projects at Talis and I have been incredibly pleased with it. I have zero design sense (designed by East German engineers for East German engineers - no offense to East German engineers), and Bootstrap manages to make my clumsy, ham-handed, functionality-first-aesthetic-never designs, look decent (even if they *all* look like Twitter's demo app). If I can do nothing else, design-wise, I can add to 12 (usually). I haven't used Foundation, but that being said, looking over the documentation for it, I don't see any fundamental differences between it or Bootstrap functionality-wise. What I *do* see, offhand, is much better documentation regarding the css being introduced. Bootstrap's documentation is (overall) pretty good, but I feel there are TONS of UI thingies in the css that aren't mentioned in the docs and my desire to trawl through the css and try things (or understand by looking at it) just isn't there. So, basically, I think it doesn't make much of a difference either way, but the documentation-thing *seems* (at-a-glance) to possibly favor Foundation (although Bootstrap may be better in the things it has documentation for - not sure). -Ross. On May 10, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keck wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
I have not used Foundation, but from what I can see, it offers a subset of the features that you get with Bootstrap. I suppose that's what they mean by light framework. The idea that it is designed to be overridden is a bit of a strange claim as I don't see how it's any different from overriding any other base stylesheet. I've been overriding styles in Bootstrap simply by creating an override.css file from the beginning. We are currently in the last stages of the prototype phase for our Finding Aids site and will be going into beta soon. It currently looks like a Bootstrap site, hence the samification that the List Apart article mentions, and I will soon need to Princeton-ify it (aka tiger style). I think that the transition to a custom site that stands out from other Bootstrap sites is not particularly easy if you've been using Bootstrap out of the box and overriding it like I've been doing. This is because there are standard/shared colors and styles that are set as variables in Less. It's a lot more laborious to go through and override these manually than simply change the variables in Less. If you are interested in using Bootstrap, I would recommend designing a style guide (or UI pattern library, as Matthew called it) for your own institution and building it with Less, which is my next step. This guide will provide me and my colleagues custom variations on components, but I plan to maintain the architecture of the Bootstrap site. I just love how organized it is, and how easy it is to simply copy code from the examples. Furthermore, it will be easier to keep such a style guide in sync with future Bootstrap versions. I'm currently putting off upgrading to Bootstrap 2.0 because they changed the default grid and I didn't start the project using Less. Finally, other developers at your institution can use the same custom guide as easily as they would the Bootstrap site for grabbing and quickly implementing their design conventions. I don't regret not using Less out of the gate since it was pretty foreign to me at the time, and I really just wanted to get going quickly with prototyping the architecture. Cheers, Shaun On 5/11/12 9:27 AM, Joseph Gilbert wrote: Hi Jessie, I've used Bootstrap more than Foundation, but both are solid choices. There are some relatively minor differences: Bootstrap uses LESS while Foundation is CSS with an officially supported SASS version; Bootstrap has a few more JS widgets thrown in. One philosophical distinction seems to lie in the it’s designed to be overridden line in the article Tom mentions. Bootstrap looks good right out of the box, but the underlying styles are also a bit more complex and therefore sometimes require a little more effort to tweak. Bootstrap out-of-the-box and without customizations--a bit like jQueryUI before it--is already starting to seem hackneyed, but assuming you all will be doing institutional customizations, either library, I think, will give you a good starting point. Best, Joe -- Joseph Gilbert User Experience Web Developer University of Virginia Library On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Tom Keaystomke...@gmail.com wrote: I read this awhile back. It's by someone associated with the Foundation project. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dive-into-responsive-prototyping-with-foundation/ Both look good. Like you, I looked hard at Bootstrap after the conference, but haven't really done anything with it. I'd be interested which framework you settle on. On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Jessie Keckjk...@stanford.edu wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
[CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Jessie Keck jk...@stanford.edu wrote: style-guids You mean like this? 6f62d22-9aff-11e1-9b04-dc2b61fffec6
Re: [CODE4LIB] Bootstrap vs Foundation
Whoops, sorry guys, sent this message before I saw http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/ (I'm so behind times) Clearly the jury is already out on this one. - Jessie On May 10, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Jessie Keck wrote: Hi all, We are about to develop a set of style-guids and templates for our locally developed applications that will have a unified look and feel. One manifestation of this will be a ruby gem that we will use for all of our rails apps (including Blacklight and Hydra applications). As we were discussing the approaches we may take for this, the question of basing our designs on a library such as Bootstrap or Foundation came up. I have heard a lot about Bootstrap in the C4L community, but very little about Foundation. Does anybody here have extensive experience w/ both libraries and would recommend one over the other? We are already leaning towards Bootstrap as many in the Blacklight and Hydra communities have expressed interest or are using it already. Also, some folks locally who have used or investigated both libraries have had positive experiences in either case. Understanding that this may be boil down to a simple matter of taste, I wonder what opinions you all have. Thank you, - Jessie Keck Stanford University
