True, but sad.
Sent from Eric Hellman's iPhone
1-862-596-0116
On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Karen Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric Hellman wrote:
Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field
of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not
Even if there was a URI for LCC, I wouldn't put it in rft_id unless an
individual LCC uniquely identifies a particular manifestation--I don't
_think_ it does, I think two books can share the same LCC? But I guess
not when you include all the trailing 'cutter'-type numbers?
At any rate, there
On 9 December 2008, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
... I think two books can share the same LCC? But I guess not when you
include all the trailing 'cutter'-type numbers?
Not in the same library, but there's nothing to stop two different
libraries from having the same call number for two different
LCCN--Library of Congress Control Number--eg 98013779--, yes.
LCC--Library of Congress Classification--eg BF575.H27 W35 1991--I don't
think so.
Jonathan
Eric Hellman wrote:
just catch up on the discussion here...
for the benefit of those who aren't on the openurl list, it was pointed out
Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not clear why
anyone would want to do that.
On 12/8/08 10:41 AM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
LCCN--Library of Congress Control Number--eg
Eric Hellman wrote:
Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not clear why
anyone would want to do that.
Well, it could provide some -- dare I say? -- CONTEXT. Having the
classification could help
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Michael Ang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From what I've been reading it sounds like abbr with title is more of a
problem than span with title. So maybe span with title isn't too much
of a problem in practice? I suspect that whether the span is empty doesn't
make a
I agree with this, as well as just using HTTP for it (Status: 300/Conneg).
Still gets a bit tricky when talking about a 'search results' or
'browse' page (rather than a 'resource' page).
Of course, some other metadata options beside JSON would probably
helpful in this case, since it would take
just catch up on the discussion here...
for the benefit of those who aren't on the openurl list, it was pointed out
that you can put lccn in a ContextObject using info uri's:
rft_id=info:lccn/93004427
Eric
On 12/1/08 1:28 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not sure there's
Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior? What
browser displays the title for a span? I haven't run across this.
-Ross.
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a COinS
On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Tom Habing wrote:
link rel=unapi-server type=application/xml title=unAPI href=http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi
/
Yes, forgot to mention this piece.
link rel=unapi-server type=application/xml title=unAPI href=http://ethicshare.org/unapi
/
On 12/05/2008 10:45 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior? What
browser displays the title for a span? I haven't run across this.
If you tag things as span title='foo'Some Text/span, most browsers
will display the title as a tooltip over Some
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not that I know of.
You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
No, why would it.
BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the span is empty. Do they
Actually... @media aural :-)
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html#media-types
But is it supported well enough?
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not that I know of.
You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
What is
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:31 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jonathan
Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
'print'.
For CSS3, the working group feels that screen readers should combine screen and
speech media types as
Actually [EMAIL PROTECTED] speech. :-)
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/aural.html
CSS 2.1 reserves the 'speech' media type (see chapter 7, Media
types), but does not yet define which properties do or do not apply to
it...The type 'aural' is now deprecated.
I strongly suspect the current generation
Right, one note on that: http://ocoins.info/#id3205609416
What I was more referring to was this behavior occurring w/r/t to COinS/unAPI.
1) Is this really happening?
2) Wouldn't this be an implementation issue?
-Ross.
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Thomas Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not that I know of.
You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
No, why would it.
I agree with Godmar -- everything
My Firefox3 does, and my IE7 does too. That's mysterious that yours
doesn't.
Jonathan
Ross Singer wrote:
Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior? What
browser displays the title for a span? I haven't run across this.
-Ross.
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Jonathan
Ah, thanks Godmar and Thomas. The empty span is probably the key. I
don't always use empty spans for COinS. For instance, the Code4Lib
Journal, we put a link inside the span that takes you to a page that
says If you had LibX installed, you'd get useful functionality here
instead of this link.
Oops, good point, display:none might cause problems for COinS using
user-agents that count on inserting content into the span and having it
be visible.
Perhaps user-agents should be changed to change the style, removing
display:none if it's there, maybe that should be reccommended best
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: would
it.
BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the span is empty. Do they try to read empty text? And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.
Yeah, if
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the span is empty. Do they try to read empty text? And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.
Thinking about this
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Ross Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the span is empty. Do they try to read empty text? And if
a COinS is
Ed Summers wrote:
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: would
it.
BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the span is empty. Do they try to read empty text? And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips
For the DLF Aquifer portal (http://www.dlfaquifer.org/), we have
implemented unAPI as follows.
In the html head there is a link:
link rel=unapi-server type=application/xml title=unAPI
href=http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi; /
which identifies the base URL for the unAPI service, then
On Dec 3, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I
was a bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten
it:
I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just
coins) is basically just a formatted
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Ed Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
COinS are still needed, in particular in situations in which multiple
resources are displayed on a page (like, for instance, in the search
results pages of
Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS title shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
screen readers. Oops.
But I think it's still worth putting in, until we come up with something
better. COinS is one of the few useful micro-standards
On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS title shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
screen readers. Oops.
By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like 'span
class=Z3988
Not that I know of.
You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like
you can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That
I know of no uses other than browser plug-ins. For microformats in
general, browser plugins (or other user-agent behavior--at one point
there was talk of supporting microformats in FF3 without a plugin, but
it didn't make it in) are the most common use case.
I know of no way for you to
On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be
in the abbr. What would be useful?
kc
I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal
module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the abbr tags
Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I was
a bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten it:
I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just coins) is
basically just a formatted string imbedded in the html that will be used
by an
Yes, that's correct.
However, if you already offer persistent URLs for item data in one or
more machine-readable formats (like MARC, or DC in XML), the additional
work that needs to be done is likely just a fairly small amount of
'glue' to make those alternate formats discoverable via unAPI.
This is correct. I'd bet it'd be like 10 lines of PHP or less, though.
-Ross.
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Karen Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I was a
bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten it:
I
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Godmar Back [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
COinS are still needed, in particular in situations in which multiple
resources are displayed on a page (like, for instance, in the search
results pages of most online systems or on pages such as
http://citeulike.org, or in a
One thing to keep in mind when looking at unAPI, COinS and
Microformats in general is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml
//Ed
Ed Summers wrote:
I guess the main thing I wanted to
communicate is that you could simply add:
link rel=alternate type=application/json
href=http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}; /
to the head element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
would go a long way to
Gabriel Farrell wrote:
COinS would be great, but unAPI would be useful also. In the case of
Zotero, for example, more information can be passed along with unAPI
than with COinS.
I agree. They are not mutually exclusive and can be used for quite
different purposes. In my experience COinS is
Having a per-page link to get an alternate representation of a
resource is certainly helpful for some applications, and please do
support it, but don't consider the problem solved.
The primary weakness of this approach is that it works only if a page
is dedicated to a single resource.
COinS are
I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be in
the abbr. What would be useful?
kc
Ere Maijala wrote:
Gabriel Farrell wrote:
COinS would be great, but unAPI would be useful also. In the case of
Zotero, for example, more information can be passed along with unAPI
than
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
Does anyone think they might make use of them?
Thanks,
kc
--
Having COinS embedded in the Open Library would be useful. Zotero would
have made use of such COinS -- but because they were absent, a custom
translator was written to grab the bibliographic metadata from OL.
-Raymond
Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and
Coyle
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:08 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages
Not just the book pages, I might add! Wikipedia probably has the most
non-book COinS deployed; Worldcat is the premier site for book COinS.
A recent but impressive addition to the COinSiverse is ResearchBlogging- see
http://ResearchBlogging.org
Eric
On 12/1/08 11:08 AM, Karen Coyle [EMAIL
: +44 (0)20 7594 8829
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Karen Coyle
Sent: 01 December 2008 16:08
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks
Yes. A COinS object could/would allow users using LibX to be directed
to my link resolver, to find an alternate licensed ebook copy of that
book, to issue an ILL request for a print version, or to find a print
version on the local libraries shelves.
It is important that the COinS object
Thanks, Eric (and all!) - by non-book you mean other formats (films,
music, etc.?) OL doesn't have records for those (yet). There is an
author record, but I'm not sure how it might be used (it doesn't have a
link to LCNA). I supposed a COinS with the author name and dates would
be of some
Thanks for the specifics. I'll definitely include those. We also have
things like DDC and LCC -- I'm not sure those help in the OpenURL world
although I'm always hoping that someone will find a good use for them
since they are rich bits of information. And we have lots of subjects,
but I guess
I'm not sure if a COinS with just author information, rather than a
citation to a particular bibliographic resource, is actually of use.
The OpenURL SAP profiles, which COinS works with, wasn't really designed
for that. I'd work up a clear use case before expending development
energy on it.
I'm not sure there's any good way to include a DDC or LCC in an SAP1
OpenURL for COinS. Same with subject vocabularies. Really, I'm pretty
sure there is NOT, in fact. But if there is, sure, throw them in, put
in anything you've got.
But this re-affirms my suggestion that there might be a
Definitely useful.
Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 08:08 -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
At Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:15:24 -0800,
Raymond Yee wrote:
Having COinS embedded in the Open Library would be useful. Zotero would
have made use of such COinS -- but because they were absent, a custom
translator was written to grab the bibliographic metadata from OL.
Zotero also supports Unapi,
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:08:15AM -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
Does anyone think they
PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Karen Coyle
Sent: 01 December 2008 16:08
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't
quite
figure out where
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:53 PM, John Miedema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Definitely useful.
Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.
Depending on the metadata format used (I figure pretty
Of course, if the software providing the structured data does already
know how to seperate firstname and lastname, that will be quite useful
to the client who is receiving it. But if all you've got is a name
string and don't know what is firstname and what is lastname, yeah, the
OpenURL
Hi Karen:
I definitely think adding COinS to OpenLibrary pages could make sense.
I'm curious what everyone's use case is. Is it mainly browser plugins
that can inject links to a relevant OpenURL router so that you can
find books in your local context? If so I think use of COinS in
OpenLibrary
John Miedema wrote:
Definitely useful.
Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.
We've still got the input records with last, first, and they are linked
to the OL record. But I also
Thanks, Ed. Some of this is a bit over my head, but I'll pass it along
to those to whom it will make sense.
There is every intention to make the OL data available in
machine-readable formats -- there's the usual problem of not having
enough time to implement everything with a small
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Karen Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I asked about COinS because it's something I have vague knowledge of. (And I
assume it isn't too difficult to implement.) However, if there are other
services that would make a bigger difference, I invite you (all) to speak
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