Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[William Denton]

On 9 December 2008, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:

... I think two books can share the same LCC?  But I guess not when you 
include all the trailing 'cutter'-type numbers?


Not in the same library, but there's nothing to stop two different 
libraries from having the same call number for two different books.


Bill
--
William Denton, Toronto : www.miskatonic.org www.frbr.org www.openfrbr.org

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Even if there was a URI for LCC, I wouldn't put it in rft_id unless an 
individual LCC uniquely identifies a particular manifestation--I don't 
_think_ it does, I think two books can share the same LCC?  But I guess 
not when you include all the trailing 'cutter'-type numbers? 

At any rate, there clearly isn't a good place for LCC in a SAP1/2 OpenURL. 

But we should probably take this interesting (to some of us) discussion 
to the OpenURL list.


Jonathan

Hellman,Eric wrote:

True, but sad.

Sent from Eric Hellman's iPhone
1-862-596-0116


On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:20 PM, "Karen Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Eric Hellman wrote:
Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field 
of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not 
clear why

anyone would want to do that.




Well, it could provide some -- dare I say? -- CONTEXT. Having the 
classification could help a resolver route the request to the 
appropriate library catalog if a union catalog isn't available. 
Having the classification could aid a service trying to disambiguate 
author names. Having the classification could provide a library with 
interesting statistics on requests, failed requests, and collection 
development.


Probably none of this is done today, but I think the LCC will become 
more interesting to us as we begin to go beyond bibliographic 
matching to bibliographic data mining.


kc

--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234






--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Hellman,Eric]

True, but sad.

Sent from Eric Hellman's iPhone
1-862-596-0116


On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:20 PM, "Karen Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Eric Hellman wrote:
Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field  
of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not  
clear why

anyone would want to do that.




Well, it could provide some -- dare I say? -- CONTEXT. Having the  
classification could help a resolver route the request to the  
appropriate library catalog if a union catalog isn't available.  
Having the classification could aid a service trying to disambiguate  
author names. Having the classification could provide a library with  
interesting statistics on requests, failed requests, and collection  
development.


Probably none of this is done today, but I think the LCC will become  
more interesting to us as we begin to go beyond bibliographic  
matching to bibliographic data mining.


kc

--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Eric Hellman wrote:

Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not clear why
anyone would want to do that.

  



Well, it could provide some -- dare I say? -- CONTEXT. Having the 
classification could help a resolver route the request to the 
appropriate library catalog if a union catalog isn't available. Having 
the classification could aid a service trying to disambiguate author 
names. Having the classification could provide a library with 
interesting statistics on requests, failed requests, and collection 
development.


Probably none of this is done today, but I think the LCC will become 
more interesting to us as we begin to go beyond bibliographic matching 
to bibliographic data mining.


kc

--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Eric Hellman]

Yep. There's no URI for LCC. You could put LCC in the subject field of a
dublin core profile metadata format ContextObject. But it's not clear why
anyone would want to do that.


On 12/8/08 10:41 AM, "Jonathan Rochkind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> LCCN--Library of Congress Control Number--eg "98013779"--, yes.
> LCC--Library of Congress Classification--eg BF575.H27 W35 1991--I don't
> think so.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> Eric Hellman wrote:
>> just catch up on the discussion here...
>> 
>> for the benefit of those who aren't on the openurl list, it was pointed out
>> that you can put lccn in a ContextObject using info uri's:
>> 
>> rft_id=info:lccn/93004427
>>   
> 

Eric Hellman, Director  OCLC New Jersey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2 Broad St., Suite 208
tel 1-973-509-7800  Bloomfield, NJ 07003
http://nj.oclc.org/

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

LCCN--Library of Congress Control Number--eg "98013779"--, yes.  
LCC--Library of Congress Classification--eg BF575.H27 W35 1991--I don't 
think so.


Jonathan

Eric Hellman wrote:

just catch up on the discussion here...

for the benefit of those who aren't on the openurl list, it was pointed out
that you can put lccn in a ContextObject using info uri's:

rft_id=info:lccn/93004427
  

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Eric Hellman]

just catch up on the discussion here...

for the benefit of those who aren't on the openurl list, it was pointed out
that you can put lccn in a ContextObject using info uri's:

rft_id=info:lccn/93004427

Eric

On 12/1/08 1:28 PM, "Jonathan Rochkind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not sure there's any good way to include a DDC or LCC in an SAP1
> OpenURL for COinS. Same with subject vocabularies. Really, I'm pretty
> sure there is NOT, in fact.  But if there is, sure, throw them in, put
> in anything you've got.
> 
> But this re-affirms my suggestion that there might be a better
> microformat-ish way to embed information in the page in addition to
> OpenURL.  COinS/OpenURL is important because we have an established
> infrastructure for it, but it's actually pretty limited and not always
> the easiest to work with.
> 
> Jonathan
> 


Eric Hellman, Director  OCLC New Jersey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2 Broad St., Suite 208
tel 1-973-509-7800  Bloomfield, NJ 07003
http://nj.oclc.org/

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

I agree with this, as well as just using HTTP for it (Status: 300/Conneg).

Still gets a bit tricky when talking about a 'search results' or
'browse' page (rather than a 'resource' page).

Of course, some other metadata options beside JSON would probably
helpful in this case, since it would take some prior knowledge of the
JSON schema to know what you're looking at, otherwise.

-Ross.

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Ed Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Michael Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From what I've been reading it sounds like  with title is more of a
>> problem than  with title.  So maybe  with title isn't too much
>> of a problem in practice?  I suspect that whether the span is empty doesn't
>> make a difference *if* the screen-reader is set up to read the title
>> attribute of a span.  But having the software set that way seems unlikely(?)
>
> Yeah, the tooltip displaying an ugly serialized ContextObject is kind
> of annoying, but I imagine there are hacks around that. The main
> problem for screen readers, at least according to that BBC article,
> concerns the use of .
>
> I didn't mean to stir up a huge debate. I just think libraries
> sometimes overlook use of the  element to link to alternate
> (more machine readable) representations of a web resource. With the
> notable exception of  auto-discovery for syndicated feeds (Atom, RSS,
> etc).
>
> //Ed
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Michael Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From what I've been reading it sounds like  with title is more of a
> problem than  with title.  So maybe  with title isn't too much
> of a problem in practice?  I suspect that whether the span is empty doesn't
> make a difference *if* the screen-reader is set up to read the title
> attribute of a span.  But having the software set that way seems unlikely(?)

Yeah, the tooltip displaying an ugly serialized ContextObject is kind
of annoying, but I imagine there are hacks around that. The main
problem for screen readers, at least according to that BBC article,
concerns the use of .

I didn't mean to stir up a huge debate. I just think libraries
sometimes overlook use of the  element to link to alternate
(more machine readable) representations of a web resource. With the
notable exception of  auto-discovery for syndicated feeds (Atom, RSS,
etc).

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Michael Ang]

Ed Summers wrote:

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: would 
it.
  

BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.



Yeah, if the  is empty I think you're 


From what I've been reading it sounds like  with title is more of 
a problem than  with title.  So maybe  with title isn't too 
much of a problem in practice?  I suspect that whether the span is empty 
doesn't make a difference *if* the screen-reader is set up to read the 
title attribute of a span.  But having the software set that way seems 
unlikely(?)


Do we know anyone who might have real experience with this?  So far my 
thought is to support microformats that use an empty  but not 
those using the  style.


Thanks,
 - mang

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Godmar Back]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Ross Singer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
>> child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
>> a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.
>
> Thinking about this a bit more -- does this leave the COinS in an
> unusable state if some other agent executes after LibX is done?
>

I spoke too soon. We don't touch the 'title' attribute.

But we put content in the previously empty , so there is
a potential problem with a screen reader then. (That content, though,
has its own 'title' attribute.)

 - Godmar

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
> child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
> a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.

Thinking about this a bit more -- does this leave the COinS in an
unusable state if some other agent executes after LibX is done?

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: would 
it.
> BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
> child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
> a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.

Yeah, if the  is empty I think you're OK.

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Oops, good point, display:none might cause problems for COinS using 
user-agents that count on inserting content into the span and having it 
be visible.


Perhaps user-agents should be changed to change the style, removing 
display:none if it's there, maybe that should be reccommended best 
practice.


Jonathan

Ross Singer wrote:

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Not that I know of.

You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
  

No, why would it.



I agree with Godmar -- everything should be using the DOM.  The tag is
still there.  Of course, if the COinS processor is inserting its
output into the span tag, you might have a problem...

-Ross.
  

BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.

 - Godmar



What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
it.

But doesn't exist.

Jonathan

Thomas Dowling wrote:
  

On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:



Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
screen readers. Oops.


  

By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like ''?




--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu

  


  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Ah, thanks Godmar and Thomas. The empty span is probably the key. I 
don't always use empty spans for COinS. For instance, the Code4Lib 
Journal, we put a link inside the span that takes you to a page that 
says "If you had LibX installed, you'd get useful functionality here 
instead of this link." Which seemed like a nice idea, but perhaps not 
worth the trade-offs.


Perhaps empty spans, with CSS setting display:none, should be 
recommended best practice for COinS, and should take care of most 
accessibility concerns. I believe most screen readers succesfully do NOT 
read elements with display:none.


Jonathan

Godmar Back wrote:

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Not that I know of.

You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.



No, why would it.

BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.

 - Godmar

  

What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
it.

But doesn't exist.

Jonathan

Thomas Dowling wrote:


On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:

  

Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
screen readers. Oops.




By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like ''?


  

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu




  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

My Firefox3 does, and my IE7 does too. That's mysterious that yours 
doesn't.


Jonathan

Ross Singer wrote:

Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior?  What
browser displays the "title" for a span?  I haven't run across this.

-Ross.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a COinS
"title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by screen
readers. Oops.

But I think it's still worth putting in, until we come up with something
better. COinS is one of the few useful micro-standards that actually is in
use in our infrastructure.

Jonathan

Ed Summers wrote:


One thing to keep in mind when looking at unAPI, COinS and
Microformats in general is:


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml

//Ed


  

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu




  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Not that I know of.
>>
>> You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
>
> No, why would it.

I agree with Godmar -- everything should be using the DOM.  The tag is
still there.  Of course, if the COinS processor is inserting its
output into the span tag, you might have a problem...

-Ross.
>
> BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
> child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
> a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.
>
>  - Godmar
>
>>
>> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
>> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
>> can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
>> it.
>>
>> But doesn't exist.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> Thomas Dowling wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>>>

 Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
 COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
 screen readers. Oops.


>>>
>>> By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like '>> class="Z3988" style="speak:none" title=...>'?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Rochkind
>> Digital Services Software Engineer
>> The Sheridan Libraries
>> Johns Hopkins University
>> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

Right, one note on that:  http://ocoins.info/#id3205609416

What I was more referring to was this behavior occurring w/r/t to COinS/unAPI.

1)  Is this really happening?
2)  Wouldn't this be an implementation issue?

-Ross.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Thomas Dowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/05/2008 10:45 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
>> Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior?  What
>> browser displays the "title" for a span?  I haven't run across this.
>>
>
> If you tag things as "Some Text", most browsers
> will display the title as a tooltip over "Some Text".  Which is why
> empty spans work well for coins.
>
>
> --
> Thomas Dowling
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Thomas Dowling]

Actually [EMAIL PROTECTED] speech.  :-)



"CSS 2.1 reserves the 'speech' media type (see chapter 7, "Media
types"), but does not yet define which properties do or do not apply to
it...The type 'aural' is now deprecated."

I strongly suspect the current generation of screen readers don't pay
attention to either one, though.


Thomas Dowling
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 12/05/2008 10:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Actually... @media aural :-)
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html#media-types
> 
> But is it supported well enough?
> 
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Not that I know of.
>>
>> You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
>>
>> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
>> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
>> can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
>> it.
>>
>> But doesn't exist.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> Thomas Dowling wrote:
>>> On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
 COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
 screen readers. Oops.


>>> By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like '>> class="Z3988" style="speak:none" title=...>'?
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Rochkind
>> Digital Services Software Engineer
>> The Sheridan Libraries
>> Johns Hopkins University
>> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>>
> 
> 
> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[David Jones]

>>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:31 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jonathan
Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for 
> 'print'.

For CSS3, the working group feels that screen readers should combine screen and 
speech media types as that is what they actually are doing. They read a screen 
and then speak it. Which is why they dropped the 'reader' type early on.

http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work#reader
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work#speech
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work#aural

Whether or not any of the various screen readers will follow suit, we just have 
to wait and see, but they could use the limited aural function set of 2.1 to do 
it now.

HTH,
David




_
David Jones mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Library Systems Manager  http://www.scu.edu/library/
University Library   fax:   408-551-1805
Santa Clara Universityphone: 408-551-7167
500 El Camino Real
Santa Clara CA 95053-0500
_
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
-- Philip K. Dick

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[bill]

Actually... @media aural :-)

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html#media-types

But is it supported well enough?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not that I know of.
>
> You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
>
> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
> can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
> it.
>
> But doesn't exist.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Thomas Dowling wrote:
>>
>> On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
>>> COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
>>> screen readers. Oops.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like '> class="Z3988" style="speak:none" title=...>'?
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>



-- 
Bill Dueber
Library Systems Programmer
University of Michigan Library

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Godmar Back]

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not that I know of.
>
> You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.

No, why would it.

BTW, I don't see why screen readers would stumble over this when the
child of the  is empty. Do they try to read empty text?  And if
a COinS is processed, we fix up the title so tooltips show nicely.

 - Godmar

>
> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
> can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
> it.
>
> But doesn't exist.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Thomas Dowling wrote:
>>
>> On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
>>> COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
>>> screen readers. Oops.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like '> class="Z3988" style="speak:none" title=...>'?
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Thomas Dowling]

On 12/05/2008 10:45 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior?  What
> browser displays the "title" for a span?  I haven't run across this.
> 

If you tag things as "Some Text", most browsers
will display the title as a tooltip over "Some Text".  Which is why
empty spans work well for coins.


-- 
Thomas Dowling
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Chad Fennell]

On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Tom Habing wrote:

http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi 
" />


Yes, forgot to mention this piece.

http://ethicshare.org/unapi 
" />

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

Wait, has there actually been confirmation of this behavior?  What
browser displays the "title" for a span?  I haven't run across this.

-Ross.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a COinS
> "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by screen
> readers. Oops.
>
> But I think it's still worth putting in, until we come up with something
> better. COinS is one of the few useful micro-standards that actually is in
> use in our infrastructure.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Ed Summers wrote:
>>
>> One thing to keep in mind when looking at unAPI, COinS and
>> Microformats in general is:
>>
>>
>>  
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml
>>
>> //Ed
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

I know of no uses other than browser plug-ins. For microformats in 
general, browser plugins (or other user-agent behavior--at one point 
there was talk of supporting microformats in FF3 without a plugin, but 
it didn't make it in) are the most common use case.


I know of no way for you to auto-detect if a user-agent wants to do 
something COinS, and I think requiring a user to manually turn it on in 
some kind of OL preferences would largely defeat the purpose of it.


So it's a trade-off, at this point. Is possible interference with some 
screen-reading user-agents of enough concern to outweigh the potential 
utility of COinS?


Either way, as a bunch of us have been saying, we reccommend that you 
don't _limit_ your efforts to provide machine-discoverable/usable 
representations of your citations to COinS.  I think it is useful, but 
not sufficient. But supporting LibX for redirection to my link resolver 
to retrieve library services for the citation is a VERY useful use case 
to me and my patrons.


Incidentally, unAPI suffers from the same potential problem with some 
screen-reading user-agents, being based on the  tag. Zotero uses 
unAPI (as well as COins), but oh well, same thing.


Apparently RDFa does not suffer from the same problems, I've heard. I 
don't know enough about RDFa to know for sure, or to know how hard it 
would be to implement a useful RDFa solution here. At present, LibX, 
Zotero, etc., do not, as far as I know, use RDFa. But that's the future, 
is my guess. 

There are also other methods of auto-discovery of machine-readable data, 
one I think suggested by Ed in this thread, that don't suffer from this 
problem--but also won't currently be used by LibX, Zotero, etc.


Jonathan

Michael Ang wrote:

Hmm so there's no implementation of COinS that doesn't interfere with
screen readers that have "read title tag" turned on?

It sounds like that isn't the default setting in JAWS but some people do
turn it on: http://www.standards-schmandards.com/2005/browsing-habits/

Are there automated (e.g. NOT a browser plugin) uses of COinS?  I'm not
talking theoretical use but actual bots/spiders/import scripts.  One way
we could support COinS on OL would be for COinS users to explicitly turn
it on.  Or possibly it could be automatic if we detect COinS support
(maybe it's passed in the browser agent?)

  - mang

  

Not that I know of.

You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.

What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like
you can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right
way to do it.

But doesn't exist.

Jonathan

Thomas Dowling wrote:


On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:

  

Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used
by
screen readers. Oops.




By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like ''?


  

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886
rochkind (at) jhu.edu




  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The metadata needs to be related to some element on the page, such as
> the text in a reference. The most natural way to do this (and COinS
> allows this) is to place the COinS next to (for instance) the
> reference to which it refers.

If you want to enable a browser plugin that injects links to a local
OpenURL resolver at the right place then I agree.

But if you want to simply make machine readable data available to an
application like Zotero then the relation of that chunk of metadata to
an element in the page isn't really important.

So I guess it depends on what you are trying to do (requirements in
management speak).

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Michael Ang]

Hmm so there's no implementation of COinS that doesn't interfere with
screen readers that have "read title tag" turned on?

It sounds like that isn't the default setting in JAWS but some people do
turn it on: http://www.standards-schmandards.com/2005/browsing-habits/

Are there automated (e.g. NOT a browser plugin) uses of COinS?  I'm not
talking theoretical use but actual bots/spiders/import scripts.  One way
we could support COinS on OL would be for COinS users to explicitly turn
it on.  Or possibly it could be automatic if we detect COinS support
(maybe it's passed in the browser agent?)

  - mang

> Not that I know of.
>
> You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.
>
> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like
> you can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right
> way to do it.
>
> But doesn't exist.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Thomas Dowling wrote:
>> On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
>>> COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used
>>> by
>>> screen readers. Oops.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like '> class="Z3988" style="speak:none" title=...>'?
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886
> rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Keith Jenkins]

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for
> 'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like you
> can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right way to do
> it.
>
> But doesn't exist.

CSS 2 and 2.1 have aural stylesheets:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/aural.html

But I have no idea if any current screen readers actually use it.

Keith

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Not that I know of.

You can say display:none, but that'll probably hide it from LibX etc too.

What is needed is a CSS @media for screen readers, like one exists for 
'print'. So you could have a seperate stylesheet for screenreaders, like 
you can have a seperate stylesheet for print. That would be the right 
way to do it.


But doesn't exist.

Jonathan

Thomas Dowling wrote:

On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
  

Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
screen readers. Oops.




By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like ''?

  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Thomas Dowling]

On 12/04/2008 02:02 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
> Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a
> COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by
> screen readers. Oops.
> 

By any chance, do current screen readers honor something like ''?

-- 
Thomas Dowling
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Yeah, I had recently noticed indepedently, been unhappy with the way a 
COinS "title" shows up in mouse-overs, and is reccommended to be used by 
screen readers. Oops.


But I think it's still worth putting in, until we come up with something 
better. COinS is one of the few useful micro-standards that actually is 
in use in our infrastructure.


Jonathan

Ed Summers wrote:

One thing to keep in mind when looking at unAPI, COinS and
Microformats in general is:

  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml

//Ed

  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Godmar Back]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Ed Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> COinS are still needed, in particular in situations in which multiple
>> resources are displayed on a page (like, for instance, in the search
>> results pages of most online systems or on pages such as
>> http://citeulike.org, or in a list of references such as in the
>> "references" section of many Wikipedia pages.)
>
> JSON is perfectly capable of returning a list of things.
>

True, but that's besides the point.

The metadata needs to be related to some element on the page, such as
the text in a reference. The most natural way to do this (and COinS
allows this) is to place the COinS next to (for instance) the
reference to which it refers.

 - Godmar

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Chad Fennell]

On Dec 3, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I  
was a bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten  
it:


I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just  
coins) is basically just a formatted string imbedded in the html  
that will be used by an external program. There is no service that  
the OL site needs to provide other than popping the context object  
in there in the right format. Very low effort, from the open  
library's point of view.


unAPI appears to require some lightweight services that would have  
to be added to the OL site: basically, responding to the three  
possible unapi requests. So we can't *just* add an unAPI to the html  
pages -- there's a bit more work that needs to be done.


Yes, you are correct. unAPI does require that you implement some kind  
of unAPI "server".





Is this correct?

Thanks,
kc

Chad Fennell wrote:

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be  
in the . What would be useful?


kc




I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a  
Drupal module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  
 tags are used there.  Ex:


http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications

embedded on the page, you'll find things like: 


There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there  
as well.  Ex,


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are  
available on the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what  
formats are available for a given resource.


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of self- 
explanatory.



Hope that helps a little...

Cheers,
-Chad





--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Tom Habing]

For the DLF Aquifer portal (http://www.dlfaquifer.org/), we have 
implemented unAPI as follows.


In the html head there is a link:

href="http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi"; />


which identifies the base URL for the unAPI service, then throughout 
various web pages we have abbr tags, such as this:




My understanding is that an unAPI processor should take the base URL 
from the link and concatenate the title value from the abbr to create 
the URL used to retrieve first the list of formats available:


http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi?id=251639

And then create another URL to retrieve the specific format of interest, 
such as this:


http://www.dlfaquifer.org/unapi?id=251639&format=mods

What Chad has described might also work, but I know that the above does 
work with Zotero, at least.


Kind regards,
Tom




Chad Fennell wrote:

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be in 
the . What would be useful?


kc




I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal 
module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  tags are 
used there.  Ex:


http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications

embedded on the page, you'll find things like: title='http://ethicshare.org/unapi/374360'>


There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there as 
well.  Ex,


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are available 
on the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what formats 
are available for a given resource.


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of 
self-explanatory.



Hope that helps a little...

Cheers,
-Chad



--
Thomas G. Habing
Research Programmer
Grainger Engineering Library Information Center
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

One thing to keep in mind when looking at unAPI, COinS and
Microformats in general is:

  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Godmar Back <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> COinS are still needed, in particular in situations in which multiple
> resources are displayed on a page (like, for instance, in the search
> results pages of most online systems or on pages such as
> http://citeulike.org, or in a list of references such as in the
> "references" section of many Wikipedia pages.)

JSON is perfectly capable of returning a list of things.

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

This is correct.  I'd bet it'd be like 10 lines of PHP or less, though.

-Ross.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Karen Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I was a
> bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten it:
>
> I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just coins) is
> basically just a formatted string imbedded in the html that will be used by
> an external program. There is no service that the OL site needs to provide
> other than popping the context object in there in the right format. Very low
> effort, from the open library's point of view.
>
> unAPI appears to require some lightweight services that would have to be
> added to the OL site: basically, responding to the three possible unapi
> requests. So we can't *just* add an unAPI to the html pages -- there's a bit
> more work that needs to be done.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks,
> kc
>
> Chad Fennell wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
>>
>>> I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be in the
>>> . What would be useful?
>>>
>>> kc
>>>
>>
>>
>> I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal
>> module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  tags are used
>> there.  Ex:
>>
>> http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications
>>
>> embedded on the page, you'll find things like: > title='http://ethicshare.org/unapi/374360'>
>>
>> There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there as
>> well.  Ex,
>>
>> http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are available on
>> the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...
>>
>> http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what formats are
>> available for a given resource.
>>
>> http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of
>> self-explanatory.
>>
>>
>> Hope that helps a little...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Chad
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> 
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Yes, that's correct.

However, if you already offer persistent URLs for item data in one or 
more machine-readable formats (like MARC, or DC in XML), the additional 
work that needs to be done is likely just a fairly small amount of 
'glue' to make those alternate formats discoverable via unAPI.  As other 
machine-readable formats are made available in the future, they can be 
incorporated into the unAPI "glue" advertising them as well.  unAPI 
makes no requirements about _which_ machine-readable formats are made 
available, it's just a way of advertising their association, basically.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I 
was a bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten it:


I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just coins) 
is basically just a formatted string imbedded in the html that will be 
used by an external program. There is no service that the OL site 
needs to provide other than popping the context object in there in the 
right format. Very low effort, from the open library's point of view.


unAPI appears to require some lightweight services that would have to 
be added to the OL site: basically, responding to the three possible 
unapi requests. So we can't *just* add an unAPI to the html pages -- 
there's a bit more work that needs to be done.


Is this correct?

Thanks,
kc

Chad Fennell wrote:

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be 
in the . What would be useful?


kc




I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal 
module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  tags 
are used there.  Ex:


http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications

embedded on the page, you'll find things like: title='http://ethicshare.org/unapi/374360'>


There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there 
as well.  Ex,


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are 
available on the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what 
formats are available for a given resource.


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of 
self-explanatory.



Hope that helps a little...

Cheers,
-Chad







--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Thanks, Chad, it does help. And I think it helps me understand why I was 
a bit confused by the suggestion, but let me see if I've gotten it:


I asked about COinS. COinS (drat, hate uplow, from now on just coins) is 
basically just a formatted string imbedded in the html that will be used 
by an external program. There is no service that the OL site needs to 
provide other than popping the context object in there in the right 
format. Very low effort, from the open library's point of view.


unAPI appears to require some lightweight services that would have to be 
added to the OL site: basically, responding to the three possible unapi 
requests. So we can't *just* add an unAPI to the html pages -- there's a 
bit more work that needs to be done.


Is this correct?

Thanks,
kc

Chad Fennell wrote:

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be in 
the . What would be useful?


kc




I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal 
module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  tags 
are used there.  Ex:


http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications

embedded on the page, you'll find things like: title='http://ethicshare.org/unapi/374360'>


There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there as 
well.  Ex,


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are available 
on the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what formats 
are available for a given resource.


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of 
self-explanatory.



Hope that helps a little...

Cheers,
-Chad





--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Chad Fennell]

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be  
in the . What would be useful?


kc




I put together a pretty basic unAPI interface (technically, a Drupal  
module) for our EthicShare project; you can see how the  tags  
are used there.  Ex:


http://ethicshare.org/publications/ethics?sc=publications

embedded on the page, you'll find things like: title='http://ethicshare.org/unapi/374360'>


There are a few other pieces, but you can see these in action there as  
well.  Ex,


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/ -tells clients what formats are available  
on the sever - I've only implemented RIS so far...


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360 - tells the client what formats  
are available for a given resource.


http://ethicshare.org/unapi/?id=374360&format=ris - kind of self- 
explanatory.



Hope that helps a little...

Cheers,
-Chad

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

I've looked at unAPI, but I can't get a handle on what needs to be in 
the . What would be useful?


kc

Ere Maijala wrote:

Gabriel Farrell wrote:

COinS would be great, but unAPI would be useful also. In the case of
Zotero, for example, more information can be passed along with unAPI
than with COinS.


I agree. They are not mutually exclusive and can be used for quite 
different purposes. In my experience COinS is great for getting the 
data for OpenURL linking, but unAPI is much better for saving records 
and gives the client the power to decide what information it needs.


--Ere




--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Godmar Back]

Having a per-page link to get an alternate representation of a
resource is certainly helpful for some applications, and please do
support it, but don't consider the problem solved.

The primary weakness of this approach is that it works only if a page
is dedicated to a single resource.

COinS are still needed, in particular in situations in which multiple
resources are displayed on a page (like, for instance, in the search
results pages of most online systems or on pages such as
http://citeulike.org, or in a list of references such as in the
"references" section of many Wikipedia pages.)

 - Godmar

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Ed Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Karen Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I asked about COinS because it's something I have vague knowledge of. (And I
>> assume it isn't too difficult to implement.) However, if there are other
>> services that would make a bigger difference, I invite you (all) to speak
>> up. It makes little sense to have this large quantity of bib data if it
>> isn't widely and easily usable.
>
> Sorry to be overwhelming. I guess the main thing I wanted to
> communicate is that you could simply add:
>
>   href="http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}"; />
>
> to the  element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
> would go a long way to making machine readable data for books
> discoverable by web clients.
>
> //Ed
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ere Maijala]

Gabriel Farrell wrote:

COinS would be great, but unAPI would be useful also. In the case of
Zotero, for example, more information can be passed along with unAPI
than with COinS.


I agree. They are not mutually exclusive and can be used for quite 
different purposes. In my experience COinS is great for getting the data 
for OpenURL linking, but unAPI is much better for saving records and 
gives the client the power to decide what information it needs.


--Ere

--
Ere Maijala (Mr.)
IT Research Specialist
The National Library of Finland

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[mang]

Does any software currently look for links with type application/json?  I
could see that being useful, but only if we also specify the "schema" for
the returned JSON object.

i.e. instead of a link of type application/json a link something more like
application/book+json where the returned JSON object has a known
structure.

This would be similar to how RSS feeds can be indicated using a link of
type application/rss+xml.  If the link were just application/xml how would
you know it was RSS?

Open Library already has its own JSON "book" schema but a metadata format
is not so useful if it's just used on one site!

  - mang

> The use case is that software that's looking at that page can easily see
> that there's a json representation of it available, and where to get it.
> This is not for raw human use, it's for software use.
>
> Examples of software that might be 'looking' at an OpenLibrary item
> detail page include:
> *  a browser plug-in like LibX, looking over the user's shoulder as he
> browses the web.
> * A web spider of some kind
> * An OAI-PMH client of an OAI-PMH feed that includes OpenLibrary pages.
> (feed provided by OL/IA itself, or an OAI-PMH feed provided by a third
> party but indexing OL content).
> * Many more uses that we can't predict right now, but which people will
> come up with when the architecture is there.
>
> The link that Ed suggests is to advertise in a standard
> software-understandable way "There is a JSON representation of this
> resource available." A button that can be seen by humans may or may not
> be a good idea, depending on if you think humans are interested in
> clicking to get a JSON representation (I doubt it).  The link Ed
> suggests is for a different purpose, for automated discovery of the json
> representation of the resource represented by the url.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Karen Coyle wrote:
>> Ed Summers wrote:
>>> I guess the main thing I wanted to
>>> communicate is that you could simply add:
>>>
>>>   >> href="http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}"; />
>>>
>>> to the  element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
>>> would go a long way to making machine readable data for books
>>> discoverable by web clients.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Ed, the first thing that comes to my mind when I see this is: button.
>> Unless folks will be blindly crawling the OL* I don't know how they'll
>> get to a particular page to execute this code, except by being a
>> person searching and getting the web page. (If they are using the
>> search API they get back a list of IDs from which they'd create one or
>> more 'get' commands like this one.) A download button on the page
>> would make sense, but mainly if it downloaded into a usable format
>> (EndNote, MARC). All this to say that I don't get what the use case is
>> for this particular bit of code -- but I'm assuming you had one in
>> mind. Please do tell!
>>
>> * If anyone wants the whole OL database, json dumps are available:
>> http://openlibrary.org/dev/docs/jsondump
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886
> rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

The use case is that software that's looking at that page can easily see 
that there's a json representation of it available, and where to get it. 
This is not for raw human use, it's for software use.


Examples of software that might be 'looking' at an OpenLibrary item 
detail page include:
*  a browser plug-in like LibX, looking over the user's shoulder as he 
browses the web.

* A web spider of some kind
* An OAI-PMH client of an OAI-PMH feed that includes OpenLibrary pages. 
(feed provided by OL/IA itself, or an OAI-PMH feed provided by a third 
party but indexing OL content).
* Many more uses that we can't predict right now, but which people will 
come up with when the architecture is there.


The link that Ed suggests is to advertise in a standard 
software-understandable way "There is a JSON representation of this 
resource available." A button that can be seen by humans may or may not 
be a good idea, depending on if you think humans are interested in 
clicking to get a JSON representation (I doubt it).  The link Ed 
suggests is for a different purpose, for automated discovery of the json 
representation of the resource represented by the url.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:

Ed Summers wrote:

I guess the main thing I wanted to
communicate is that you could simply add:

  http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}"; />

to the  element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
would go a long way to making machine readable data for books
discoverable by web clients.


  
Ed, the first thing that comes to my mind when I see this is: button. 
Unless folks will be blindly crawling the OL* I don't know how they'll 
get to a particular page to execute this code, except by being a 
person searching and getting the web page. (If they are using the 
search API they get back a list of IDs from which they'd create one or 
more 'get' commands like this one.) A download button on the page 
would make sense, but mainly if it downloaded into a usable format 
(EndNote, MARC). All this to say that I don't get what the use case is 
for this particular bit of code -- but I'm assuming you had one in 
mind. Please do tell!


* If anyone wants the whole OL database, json dumps are available: 
http://openlibrary.org/dev/docs/jsondump




--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Ed Summers wrote:

I guess the main thing I wanted to
communicate is that you could simply add:

  http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}"; />

to the  element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
would go a long way to making machine readable data for books
discoverable by web clients.


  
Ed, the first thing that comes to my mind when I see this is: button. 
Unless folks will be blindly crawling the OL* I don't know how they'll 
get to a particular page to execute this code, except by being a person 
searching and getting the web page. (If they are using the search API 
they get back a list of IDs from which they'd create one or more 'get' 
commands like this one.) A download button on the page would make sense, 
but mainly if it downloaded into a usable format (EndNote, MARC). All 
this to say that I don't get what the use case is for this particular 
bit of code -- but I'm assuming you had one in mind. Please do tell!


* If anyone wants the whole OL database, json dumps are available: 
http://openlibrary.org/dev/docs/jsondump


--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Karen Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I asked about COinS because it's something I have vague knowledge of. (And I
> assume it isn't too difficult to implement.) However, if there are other
> services that would make a bigger difference, I invite you (all) to speak
> up. It makes little sense to have this large quantity of bib data if it
> isn't widely and easily usable.

Sorry to be overwhelming. I guess the main thing I wanted to
communicate is that you could simply add:

  http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/{open-library-id}"; />

to the  element in OpenLibrary HTML pages for books, and that
would go a long way to making machine readable data for books
discoverable by web clients.

//Ed

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Thanks, Ed. Some of this is a bit over my head, but I'll pass it along 
to those to whom it will make sense.


There is every intention to make the OL data available in 
machine-readable formats -- there's the usual problem of not having 
enough time to implement everything with a small programming staff. 
There's a lot of focus on the Archive's digitized books and creating 
good reading software, among other things. The current APIs are "least 
effort" services for that very reason.


I asked about COinS because it's something I have vague knowledge of. 
(And I assume it isn't too difficult to implement.) However, if there 
are other services that would make a bigger difference, I invite you 
(all) to speak up. It makes little sense to have this large quantity of 
bib data if it isn't widely and easily usable.


kc

Ed Summers wrote:

Hi Karen:

I definitely think adding COinS to OpenLibrary pages could make sense.
I'm curious what everyone's use case is. Is it mainly browser plugins
that can inject links to a relevant OpenURL router so that you can
find books in your local context? If so I think use of COinS in
OpenLibrary makes a lot of sense.

There is an orthogonal use case of making structured metadata
available via a book display. I'd personally prefer to see web pages
for books include auto-discovery links for alternate machine readable
representations. This is how blogs are typically tied to their atom
and/or rss syndication feeds.

For example if the web page for Weaving the Web [1] could include
something like:

  
  http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/OL7290708M"; />
  http://openlibrary.org/b/OL7290708M.rdf"; />
  ...
  

The JSON one works now of course, the RDF one is hypothetical. A
consuming application like Zotero (or a web crawler) could then use
simple auto-discovery to find the machine readable data. Another
alternative would be to use RDFa to interleave metadata into the HTML
display itself. We have nice things like the Bibliographic Ontology,
and the emerging RDA vocabulary that you are working on which would
fold right into these RDF representations. This machine readable
metadata could also link to things like the PDF, table-of-contents,
etc where appropriate.

It would be great if Brewster's idea of "a web-page for every book"
could also mean machine readable metadata for every book. OpenLibrary
has a rich database available behind it it, and it seems a shame not
to expose it in the HTML in a web-friendly way.

//Ed

[1] http://openlibrary.org/b/OL7290708M


  



--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

John Miedema wrote:
Definitely useful. 


Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.

  
We've still got the input records with last, first, and they are linked 
to the OL record. But I also think that the original names might be 
tucked away somewhere in the database... In any case, thanks for the 
heads up.


kc

--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ed Summers]

Hi Karen:

I definitely think adding COinS to OpenLibrary pages could make sense.
I'm curious what everyone's use case is. Is it mainly browser plugins
that can inject links to a relevant OpenURL router so that you can
find books in your local context? If so I think use of COinS in
OpenLibrary makes a lot of sense.

There is an orthogonal use case of making structured metadata
available via a book display. I'd personally prefer to see web pages
for books include auto-discovery links for alternate machine readable
representations. This is how blogs are typically tied to their atom
and/or rss syndication feeds.

For example if the web page for Weaving the Web [1] could include
something like:

  
  http://openlibrary.org/api/get?key=/b/OL7290708M"; />
  http://openlibrary.org/b/OL7290708M.rdf"; />
  ...
  

The JSON one works now of course, the RDF one is hypothetical. A
consuming application like Zotero (or a web crawler) could then use
simple auto-discovery to find the machine readable data. Another
alternative would be to use RDFa to interleave metadata into the HTML
display itself. We have nice things like the Bibliographic Ontology,
and the emerging RDA vocabulary that you are working on which would
fold right into these RDF representations. This machine readable
metadata could also link to things like the PDF, table-of-contents,
etc where appropriate.

It would be great if Brewster's idea of "a web-page for every book"
could also mean machine readable metadata for every book. OpenLibrary
has a rich database available behind it it, and it seems a shame not
to expose it in the HTML in a web-friendly way.

//Ed

[1] http://openlibrary.org/b/OL7290708M

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Of course, if the software providing the structured data does already 
know how to seperate firstname and lastname, that will be quite useful 
to the client who is receiving it. But if all you've got is a name 
string and don't know what is firstname and what is lastname, yeah, the 
OpenURL formats normally used by COinS allow you to send that along as is.


Jonathan

Ross Singer wrote:

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:53 PM, John Miedema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Definitely useful.

Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.



Depending on the metadata format used (I figure pretty much everything
is using 'journal' or 'book'), you could use rft.au=firstname+lastname
(or lastname+firstname, or whatever).

-Ross.

  



On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 08:08 -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:


I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.

Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
Does anyone think they might make use of them?

Thanks,
kc

  


  


--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Ross Singer]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:53 PM, John Miedema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Definitely useful.
>
> Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
> Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
> solution.

Depending on the metadata format used (I figure pretty much everything
is using 'journal' or 'book'), you could use rft.au=firstname+lastname
(or lastname+firstname, or whatever).

-Ross.

>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 08:08 -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
>> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
>> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
>>
>> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
>> Does anyone think they might make use of them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> kc
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Godmar Back]

Correct.

Right now, COinS handling in LibX 1.0 is primitive and always links to
the OpenURL resolver. However, LibX 2.0 will allow customized handling
so that, for instance, ISBN COinS can be treated differently than
dissertation COinS or article CoinS.  The framework for this is
already partially in place, so ambitious JavaScript programmers can
implement such custom handling for their extension; with LibX 2.0,
every LibX maintainer will be able to choose their own preferred way
of making use of COinS.

When you place COinS, don't assume it'll only be used by tools that
simply read the info from it - place it in a place in your DOM where
there's some white space, or where placing a small link or icon would
not destroy the look and feel of your interface.

 - Godmar

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Stephens, Owen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> LibX uses COinS as well I think - so generally be useful in taking
> people from the global context (Open Library) to the local (via LibX)
>
> Owen
>
> Owen Stephens
> Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources
> Central Library
> Imperial College London
> South Kensington Campus
> London
> SW7 2AZ
>
> t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Karen Coyle
>> Sent: 01 December 2008 16:08
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?
>>
>> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't
>> quite
>> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
>>
>> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open
>> Library?
>> Does anyone think they might make use of them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> kc
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
>> ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
>> fx.: 510-848-3913
>> mo.: 510-435-8234
>> 
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Gabriel Farrell]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:08:15AM -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite  
> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
>
> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?  
> Does anyone think they might make use of them?

COinS would be great, but unAPI would be useful also. In the case of
Zotero, for example, more information can be passed along with unAPI
than with COinS.


Gabriel

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Erik Hetzner]

At Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:15:24 -0800,
Raymond Yee wrote:
>
> Having COinS embedded in the Open Library would be useful.  Zotero would
> have made use of such COinS -- but because they were absent, a custom
> translator was written to grab the bibliographic metadata from OL.

Zotero also supports Unapi, which in my opinion is a much better
system for getting bibliographic metadata from web sites than COinS.

best,
Erik Hetzner
;; Erik Hetzner, California Digital Library
;; gnupg key id: 1024D/01DB07E3


pgptmLUp83fHi.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[John Miedema]

Definitely useful. 

Minor note. COinS appears to separate first and last name for authors.
Open Library has them as a single field. I'm sure you'll find a
solution.




On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 08:08 -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite 
> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
> 
> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library? 
> Does anyone think they might make use of them?
> 
> Thanks,
> kc
> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

I'm not sure there's any good way to include a DDC or LCC in an SAP1 
OpenURL for COinS. Same with subject vocabularies. Really, I'm pretty 
sure there is NOT, in fact.  But if there is, sure, throw them in, put 
in anything you've got.


But this re-affirms my suggestion that there might be a better 
microformat-ish way to embed information in the page in addition to 
OpenURL.  COinS/OpenURL is important because we have an established 
infrastructure for it, but it's actually pretty limited and not always 
the easiest to work with.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
Thanks for the specifics. I'll definitely include those. We also have 
things like DDC and LCC -- I'm not sure those help in the OpenURL 
world although I'm always hoping that someone will find a good use for 
them since they are rich bits of information. And we have lots of 
subjects, but I guess I should just think in terms of the traditional 
bibliographic identification. Anyway, I'll try some out and let people 
know when there's something to see.


And thanks to all for the enthusiastic response. I thought it would be 
a good idea, but wasn't really sure. Now I am.


kc

Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
Yes.  A COinS object could/would allow users using LibX to be 
directed to my link resolver, to find an alternate licensed ebook 
copy of that book, to issue an ILL request for a print version, or to 
find a print version on the local libraries shelves.


It is important that the COinS object includes ISBN, LCCN and/or 
OCLCnum, if those identifiers are available for a given record. It is 
also useful it it contains a rfr_id identifying Open Library as the 
source.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't 
quite figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.


Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open 
Library? Does anyone think they might make use of them?


Thanks,
kc








--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

I'm not sure if a COinS with just author information, rather than a 
citation to a particular bibliographic resource, is actually of use.  
The OpenURL SAP profiles, which COinS works with, wasn't really designed 
for that. I'd work up a clear use case before expending development 
energy on it.


There might be a better microformat-ish way to embed author information 
in a structured way in XML, perhaps RDFa (says he who knows almost 
nothing about RDFa).


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
Thanks, Eric (and all!) - by non-book you mean other formats (films, 
music, etc.?) OL doesn't have records for those (yet). There is an 
author record, but I'm not sure how it might be used (it doesn't have 
a link to LCNA). I supposed a COinS with the author name and dates 
would be of some use... ? If anyone is interested, the list of 
elements are at: http://openlibrary.org/type


Each "type" could have its own COinS if it makes sense.

kc

Eric Hellman wrote:

Not just the book pages, I might add! Wikipedia probably has the most
non-book COinS deployed; Worldcat is the premier site for book COinS.

A recent but impressive addition to the COinSiverse is 
ResearchBlogging- see

http://ResearchBlogging.org

Eric


On 12/1/08 11:08 AM, "Karen Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't 
quite

figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.

Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open 
Library?

Does anyone think they might make use of them?

Thanks,
kc



Eric Hellman, Director  OCLC New Jersey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2 Broad St., Suite 208
tel 1-973-509-7800  Bloomfield, NJ 07003
http://nj.oclc.org/


  





--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Thanks for the specifics. I'll definitely include those. We also have 
things like DDC and LCC -- I'm not sure those help in the OpenURL world 
although I'm always hoping that someone will find a good use for them 
since they are rich bits of information. And we have lots of subjects, 
but I guess I should just think in terms of the traditional 
bibliographic identification. Anyway, I'll try some out and let people 
know when there's something to see.


And thanks to all for the enthusiastic response. I thought it would be a 
good idea, but wasn't really sure. Now I am.


kc

Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
Yes.  A COinS object could/would allow users using LibX to be directed 
to my link resolver, to find an alternate licensed ebook copy of that 
book, to issue an ILL request for a print version, or to find a print 
version on the local libraries shelves.


It is important that the COinS object includes ISBN, LCCN and/or 
OCLCnum, if those identifiers are available for a given record. It is 
also useful it it contains a rfr_id identifying Open Library as the 
source.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't 
quite figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.


Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open 
Library? Does anyone think they might make use of them?


Thanks,
kc






--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

Thanks, Eric (and all!) - by non-book you mean other formats (films, 
music, etc.?) OL doesn't have records for those (yet). There is an 
author record, but I'm not sure how it might be used (it doesn't have a 
link to LCNA). I supposed a COinS with the author name and dates would 
be of some use... ? If anyone is interested, the list of elements are 
at: http://openlibrary.org/type


Each "type" could have its own COinS if it makes sense.

kc

Eric Hellman wrote:

Not just the book pages, I might add! Wikipedia probably has the most
non-book COinS deployed; Worldcat is the premier site for book COinS.

A recent but impressive addition to the COinSiverse is ResearchBlogging- see
http://ResearchBlogging.org

Eric


On 12/1/08 11:08 AM, "Karen Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.

Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
Does anyone think they might make use of them?

Thanks,
kc



Eric Hellman, Director  OCLC New Jersey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2 Broad St., Suite 208
tel 1-973-509-7800  Bloomfield, NJ 07003
http://nj.oclc.org/


  



--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Yes.  A COinS object could/would allow users using LibX to be directed 
to my link resolver, to find an alternate licensed ebook copy of that 
book, to issue an ILL request for a print version, or to find a print 
version on the local libraries shelves.


It is important that the COinS object includes ISBN, LCCN and/or 
OCLCnum, if those identifiers are available for a given record. It is 
also useful it it contains a rfr_id identifying Open Library as the source.


Jonathan

Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't 
quite figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.


Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open 
Library? Does anyone think they might make use of them?


Thanks,
kc



--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Stephens, Owen]

LibX uses COinS as well I think - so generally be useful in taking
people from the global context (Open Library) to the local (via LibX)

Owen

Owen Stephens
Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources
Central Library
Imperial College London
South Kensington Campus
London
SW7 2AZ
 
t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Karen Coyle
> Sent: 01 December 2008 16:08
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?
> 
> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't
> quite
> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
> 
> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open
> Library?
> Does anyone think they might make use of them?
> 
> Thanks,
> kc
> 
> --
> ---
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Eric Hellman]

Not just the book pages, I might add! Wikipedia probably has the most
non-book COinS deployed; Worldcat is the premier site for book COinS.

A recent but impressive addition to the COinSiverse is ResearchBlogging- see
http://ResearchBlogging.org

Eric


On 12/1/08 11:08 AM, "Karen Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite
> figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.
> 
> Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?
> Does anyone think they might make use of them?
> 
> Thanks,
> kc

Eric Hellman, Director  OCLC New Jersey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2 Broad St., Suite 208
tel 1-973-509-7800  Bloomfield, NJ 07003
http://nj.oclc.org/

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Jodi Schneider]

Yes, Karen, COinS from OL would be great. Several browser extensions use
COinS to pull information about local holdings. 
http://journal.code4lib.org/coins  links to a few such extensions. 

-Jodi

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Karen Coyle
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:08 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite

figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.

Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library?

Does anyone think they might make use of them?

Thanks,
kc

-- 
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234

Re: [CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Raymond Yee]

Having COinS embedded in the Open Library would be useful.  Zotero would 
have made use of such COinS -- but because they were absent, a custom 
translator was written to grab the bibliographic metadata from OL.


-Raymond

Karen Coyle wrote:
I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't 
quite figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.


Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open 
Library? Does anyone think they might make use of them?


Thanks,
kc

[CODE4LIB] COinS in OL?

[Karen Coyle]

I have a question to ask for the Open Library folks and I couldn't quite 
figure out where to ask it. This seems like a good place.


Would it be useful to embed COinS in the book pages of the Open Library? 
Does anyone think they might make use of them?


Thanks,
kc

--
---
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234