Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-28 Thread Nate Vack
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote:
 Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources 
 since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an 
 advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to 
 learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step?

At the risk of starting a framework holy war, I'd say that if you're
in the I've learned some PHP and now I'm ready for the next level
camp, I'd recommend at least trying Ruby on Rails.

Having written both a lot of Ruby (and Rails) and Python (and Django)
code, I can say that unless I'm doing heavy math lifting, Ruby is
nicer to work with -- to me, the language just flows better and is
more consistent. And while in the past, Django had some more polished
edges, Rails 3 has pretty much closed that gap.

Again, though, don't stress the choice too much. Both are very solid
products that will serve you well.

Have fun!
Cheers,
-Nate


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-27 Thread Elliot Hallmark
Congratulations on discovering python.  It will serve you much better
than php, or any other scripting language.

Skipping to the punch-line, you should dive into python before you
dive in django:

http://diveintopython.org/

You will have a very much more easy time if you learn how to debug a
script in the shell (rather than running a program endless times with
different print statements), use introspection, slice lists and basic
OOP.

I also learned php first, inorder to add a shopping cart onto my
friend's website.  However, I switched to this other scripting
language, python, because it could do things php cant.  For instance,
my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before
windows heard about it.  Then I kept discovering amazing things python
can do that php cant.

I helped write a non-sequential optical ray tracer in python.  When it
needed to be faster there were several libraries for writing C code
directly in a pythonic syntax.  Python has hooks into everything, like
optical character recognition, electronic music
sequeuencing/generation, serial port i/o.  Gnucash, an opensource
quicken like accounting package, has python bindings.  when there were
no decent free unRARing programs available, I discovered python could
do it easily. And if you decide you need to use the parallel vector
processeors of your nvida graphic card's onboard multicore GPU, there
is a package for that: PyCuda.

And they all weave together seamlessly.  Django could use PyCuda in a
custom form validation method to determine if an archived folder of
pictures you have uploaded has an image of a car with a decipherable
licence plate.

Anyways, python is great, and by extension I expect Django is also
(just learning it myself).

good luck,
Elliot


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-27 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Elliot Hallmark permafact...@gmail.com wrote:
 However, I switched to this other scripting
 language, python, because it could do things php cant.

Not to start a flame, but that's a rather big statement which I think
A) needs backing up, and B) is probably untrue.

  For instance,
 my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before
 windows heard about it.  Then I kept discovering amazing things python
 can do that php cant.

For instance, PHP can do this fine. Was there something in particular
you're thinking of that PHP can't do?

 I helped write a non-sequential optical ray tracer in python.  When it
 needed to be faster there were several libraries for writing C code
 directly in a pythonic syntax.  Python has hooks into everything, like
 optical character recognition, electronic music
 sequeuencing/generation, serial port i/o.

Again, PHP the same. For the sophisticated hacker, most languages can
be tweaked to solve almost any problem.

And I'm not even suggesting that you use PHP. Happy hacking.


Alex
-- 
 Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
--- http://shelter.nu/blog/ --
-- http://www.google.com/profiles/alexander.johannesen ---


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-27 Thread Elliot Hallmark
  For instance,
 my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before
 windows heard about it.  Then I kept discovering amazing things python
 can do that php cant.

 For instance, PHP can do this fine. Was there something in particular
 you're thinking of that PHP can't do?

Yes, It was irresponsible for me to make a blanket statement like that
without having very much experience with php.  I used php to make a
website from data in a database. Other things beyond that seemed
awkward, difficult, or impossible from what I knew. python immediately
jumped out to me as a tool more suited to these tasks.

I guess it was just the way I came across things, my own personal
history.  From my experience, it seemed php was a server side
scripting language.  Can you write a php script that gets key presses
and doesn't pass them along to windows to process?  I thought the OS
would have to process the key press, pass it along to the php server
and then php could process it. (pyhook)

Also, how would you go about using a GPU from a graphics card in php?
(python cuda in google gives many results)

Has anyone written a scientific computing package along the lines of
matlab in php (scipy, numpy, matplotlib)?  Or a non-sequential optical
raytracer?

if you wanted to write a web interface for GNU cash or another well
established accounting program, could you do it? (GNU cash has python
bindings to its internal functions,  I believe no other scripting
language can access the things python can.  This is the case with many
programs, python bindings but nada for php).

please feel free to point me to the php equivilants of pyhook, pycuda,
scipy, numpy and some examples of widely used programs with php
bindings.

  For the sophisticated hacker, most languages can
 be tweaked to solve almost any problem.

I am sure that is true. Though, I feel many for many tasks php would
require quite a bit more tweaking than python, with much less
community support behind it (I mean, google comes up with fewer
helpful links to the problems I sited above).

Maybe Php can accomplish many things by calling external programs.  Is
that the case?  and then are you limited to whatever commandline
options the external program has?

My impression, based on very little experience with php, is that if
you asked in a forum about using php for advanced scientific
computing, or writing music generation/sequencing software,
knowledgeable folks would first ask: are you sure you want to do this
in php?  how about java or python?

That said, php may be superior for generating websites from databases.
 That is why it is difficult to find help through google about php,
because all the searches turn up websites generated by php, not
written about it.

I'll be more careful about my praising of python over other scripting
languages in the future.

Thanks,
Elliot


[CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Junior Tidal
Hello Code4Lib,

Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
video tutorials, etc. ...

thanks,

Junior Tidal
Assistant Professor
Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
300 Jay Street
Brooklyn, NY 11210
718.260.5481
 
http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Andrew Hankinson
There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the 
revised edition for 1.0)
The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: 
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/

Did you try those already?


On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote:

 Hello Code4Lib,
 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...
 
 thanks,
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Michael J. Giarlo
I'd start here:

   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/

There are some tutorials in there as well.

-Mike



On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:19, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote:
 Hello Code4Lib,

 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...

 thanks,

 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481

 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu



Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Nate Vack
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote:

 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...

For resources, learn django in Google shows a bunch of promising hints.

Methodology-wise: Start with a fairly concrete, well-defined problem.
Have a product in mind before you start. Work hard with the tool you
choose to make your product. Don't stress about whether you've chosen
the best tools (you haven't) or whether you're doing it perfectly (you
aren't). Make the thing.

You can spend months looking over example code and tutorials and blog
posts and not learn nearly as much as you would attacking the problem.
Plus, you've gotten closer to solving the problem as you've learned.

Or, DHH says it a bit better:

http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2582-how-do-i-learn-to-program

Cheers,
-Nate


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Junior Tidal
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources 
since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an 
advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to 
learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step?

Best,  

Junior Tidal
Assistant Professor
Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
300 Jay Street
Brooklyn, NY 11210
718.260.5481
 
http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


 Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM 
There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the 
revised edition for 1.0)
The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: 
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ 

Did you try those already?


On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote:

 Hello Code4Lib,
 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...
 
 thanks,
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Gabriel Farrell
Agreed on the docs at the website. If you can't figure something out
from those, dig into the source. Happy hacking!

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Michael J. Giarlo
leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote:
 I'd start here:

   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/

 There are some tutorials in there as well.

 -Mike



 On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:19, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote:
 Hello Code4Lib,

 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...

 thanks,

 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481

 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu




Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Gabriel Farrell
If you already know PHP you might want to check out Symfony or another
PHP framework to get the hang of web frameworks, then move onto other
languages from there.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote:
 Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources 
 since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an 
 advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to 
 learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step?

 Best,

 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481

 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


 Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM 
 There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the 
 revised edition for 1.0)
 The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: 
 http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/

 Did you try those already?


 On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote:

 Hello Code4Lib,

 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...

 thanks,

 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481

 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu



Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Andrew Hankinson
Django is a web framework; Python is the language.

If you don't know the difference, I'd suggest sticking with PHP and going with 
one of the frameworks available to you there.


On 2010-10-25, at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal wrote:

 Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources 
 since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an 
 advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to 
 learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step?
 
 Best,  
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
 
 
 Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM 
 There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the 
 revised edition for 1.0)
 The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: 
 http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ 
 
 Did you try those already?
 
 
 On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote:
 
 Hello Code4Lib,
 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...
 
 thanks,
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Junior Tidal
I know the difference. 

 Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 4:40 PM 
Django is a web framework; Python is the language.

If you don't know the difference, I'd suggest sticking with PHP and going with 
one of the frameworks available to you there.


On 2010-10-25, at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal wrote:

 Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources 
 since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an 
 advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to 
 learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step?
 
 Best,  
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu 
 
 
 Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM 
 There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the 
 revised edition for 1.0)
 The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: 
 http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ 
 
 Did you try those already?
 
 
 On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote:
 
 Hello Code4Lib,
 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, 
 video tutorials, etc. ...
 
 thanks,
 
 Junior Tidal
 Assistant Professor
 Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
 New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
 300 Jay Street
 Brooklyn, NY 11210
 718.260.5481
 
 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


Re: [CODE4LIB] Django

2010-10-25 Thread Luciano Ramalho
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Gabriel Farrell gsf...@gmail.com wrote:
 If you already know PHP you might want to check out Symfony or another
 PHP framework to get the hang of web frameworks, then move onto other
 languages from there.

I've been using Django for a couple of years now, and have been tasked
to introduce Django to a team in my current employer. Two of the
developers here, both experienced in PHP but just learning Python,
told me that they've found Django much simpler and easier to learn
than Symfony.

Besides the original Django Book, my colleagues have also enjoyed
Python Web Development with Django, which includes half a dozen
simple and diverse example applications.

http://www.amazon.com/Python-Development-Django-Jeff-Forcier/dp/0132356139

-- 
Luciano Ramalho
programador repentista || stand-up programmer
Twitter: @luciano