Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Rachel Shaevel]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.  You all have confirmed what I thought 
but couldn't properly verbalize.  Hopefully my argument for EAD will be taken 
into consideration by TPTB.

KYLE:  Our finding aids have never been described using EAD.  I don't actually 
work in the special collections department so I can't explain how we ended up 
here.

A lot of things are happening at once:  transitioning to a new CMS, becoming a 
hosted instance of CONTENTdm, upgrading from CONTENTdm 5.4 to 6.x.  

Cheers-
RAS

Rachel Shaevel
Electronic Resources Cataloger
Technical Services/Catalog Department
Chicago Public Library
Harold Washington Library Center
400 S. State St.
Chicago, IL 60605
P: (312) 747-4660
rshae...@chipublib.org


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kyle 
Banerjee
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:24 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke wrote:

> EAD is the appropriate metadata schema for a finding aid. HTML is not 
> a metadata schema.
>
> HTML in no way implies that a computer can read and process your 
> finding aids.  It has nothing to do with metadata.  HTML is about 
> visual display for people.
>

This.

However, EAD is no silver bullet as there are multiple ways you can 
legitimately code the same finding aids. This means that stylesheets and 
translation tools that work for one institution or set of finding aids won't 
necessarily work for another. But it is still clearly the best way to go.

Although MARC has been used to describe archival collections, it is not an 
appropriate tool. For starters, MARC is designed to describe individual items 
where EAD is designed to describe collections of materials. MARC lacks a good 
way to express important archival elements, has technical limitations that 
makes it impossible to encode some things, and it's hopeless for expressing 
complex hierarchical relationships. MARC cannot achieve equivalent 
functionality to EAD (even if it can be used for some
purposes) which is why EAD to MARC crosswalks typically have the MARC tags 
buried right in the EAD -- i.e. the transform is hand coded on a record by 
record basis.

RACHEL: are you positive this stuff really is in HTML and that what you've seen 
isn't simply translated from EAD (i.e. did your archivist say they were just 
doing finding aids in HTML)? I was under the impression that manually HTMLizing 
finding aids fell into disfavor long ago as maintenance is far more difficult 
and incompatibility with the rest of the world is guaranteed.

kyle

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Kyle Banerjee]

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke wrote:

> EAD is the appropriate metadata schema for a finding aid. HTML is not a
> metadata schema.
>
> HTML in no way implies that a computer can read and process your finding
> aids.  It has nothing to do with metadata.  HTML is about visual display
> for people.
>

This.

However, EAD is no silver bullet as there are multiple ways you can
legitimately code the same finding aids. This means that stylesheets and
translation tools that work for one institution or set of finding aids
won't necessarily work for another. But it is still clearly the best way to
go.

Although MARC has been used to describe archival collections, it is not an
appropriate tool. For starters, MARC is designed to describe individual
items where EAD is designed to describe collections of materials. MARC
lacks a good way to express important archival elements, has technical
limitations that makes it impossible to encode some things, and it's
hopeless for expressing complex hierarchical relationships. MARC cannot
achieve equivalent functionality to EAD (even if it can be used for some
purposes) which is why EAD to MARC crosswalks typically have the MARC tags
buried right in the EAD -- i.e. the transform is hand coded on a record by
record basis.

RACHEL: are you positive this stuff really is in HTML and that what you've
seen isn't simply translated from EAD (i.e. did your archivist say they
were just doing finding aids in HTML)? I was under the impression that
manually HTMLizing finding aids fell into disfavor long ago as maintenance
is far more difficult and incompatibility with the rest of the world is
guaranteed.

kyle

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Wilhelmina Randtke]

EAD is the appropriate metadata schema for a finding aid. HTML is not a
metadata schema.

HTML in no way implies that a computer can read and process your finding
aids.  It has nothing to do with metadata.  HTML is about visual display
for people.

The Wikipedia page on the EAD schema gives an overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encoded_Archival_Description  The schema goes
box, folder, item...  It is for describing collections of archival
materials, and making a way to locate documents in that collection (ie. for
making a finding aid).  EAD is for something like all the papers of this
one famous person.  Material that isn't part of a set would get a different
treatment.  It is oriented around preserving the original order of the
materials, and has a background assumption that researchers will make a
physical visit to the archive to access the material.  Some library
oriented CMSes will have a plugin for handling EAD records.  If any
consortium in your area have an Archon install, then that is a good place
to load EAD records so that they will be where researchers are likely to
look.

Since you don't know what EAD is, you should expect to spend some days
dedicated to reading up on metadata in general.  A good place for you to
start would be NISO's Understanding Metadata
http://www.niso.org/publications/press/UnderstandingMetadata.pdf .  You
could also start at the Wikipedia page for metadata.  Then, when you don't
understand things you should read the Wikipedia page for the schema you are
looking at. All of this will be concise material.  Before you actually make
records, pull the actual schema and read it.

The appropriate metadata standard will depend on who you expect to use your
collection and where they will research it, the nature of your archives,
and the staff time you have available for indexing.  Once again, HTML is
not a metadata standard, and is only for visual displays for people, not
for computers to share records with other computers and search systems.

-Wilhelmina Randtke


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> Hello friendly Borg,
>
> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>
> Thanks!
> Rachel
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Tom Keays]

I also found this

http://www.cdlib.org/services/dsc/tools/ead_toolkit.html


On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Tom Keays  wrote:

> The advice to transform EAD to HTML using an xsl transform stylesheet
> seems to still be the best practice.
>
> http://saa-ead-roundtable.github.io/
>
> If you want an example of what the HTML looks like, here's one from
> Syracuse University
>
> http://library.syr.edu/digital/guides/a/aaace.htm
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:
>
>> Hello friendly Borg,
>>
>> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
>> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Rachel
>>
>> Rachel Shaevel
>> Electronic Resources Cataloger
>> Technical Services/Catalog Department
>> Chicago Public Library
>> Harold Washington Library Center
>> 400 S. State St.
>> Chicago, IL 60605
>> P: (312) 747-4660
>> rshae...@chipublib.org
>>
>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Tom Keays]

The advice to transform EAD to HTML using an xsl transform stylesheet seems
to still be the best practice.

http://saa-ead-roundtable.github.io/

If you want an example of what the HTML looks like, here's one from
Syracuse University

http://library.syr.edu/digital/guides/a/aaace.htm


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> Hello friendly Borg,
>
> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>
> Thanks!
> Rachel
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Charles Blair]

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 08:25:05PM -0400, Eric Lease Morgan wrote:
> Create EAD files to describe the collections in your archives
  because EAD is the MARC of the archives world. There are no two ways
  about it.  --ELM

That might not be the best way of putting it given the full extent of
the original question (see below).

EAD vs HTML? No question (EAD). Can MARC be used to describe archival
collections? Fact is, it is.

This leads to a followup question: What is the current uptake of EAD
in the archival world? I did some looking and couldn't find
percentages stated. What I'm asking is, of those archival collections
described using electronic finding aids, what percentage are EAD? What
percentage are MARC? What percentage are other? (I don't care to
distinguish HTML from PDF, for example.) Is anyone doing anything
creative with, say, linked data? (What I really mean is RDF, plain and
simple.)

I realize this is going off topic, but the original topic is pretty
much dead in the water if we confine it to EAD vs HTML. But if we add
the bit about "Or are both [EAD and MARC] going the way of the
dinosaurs?", then the answer is no, not (quite) yet, but I do recall
at the very first DLF meeting, when EAD was presented, mutterings from
about half the audience that this should be a database
application. Since then we've seen more than one viable XML database,
or software than can handle XML nicely (e.g., XTF), so while that
objection disappears, nevertheless I think that the observation
underlying those mutterings still stands: is there a better way to
this (at least, conceptually), and, is anyone working on such a way?
Today EAD is clearly the answer, but if EAD was questionable even
then, I'm wondering what a viable successor might be tomorrow (which
doesn't, of course, affect what implementation decisions we make
today).

-- 
Charles Blair   
Director, Digital Library Development Center, University of Chicago Library
1 773 702 8459 | c...@uchicago.edu | http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~chas/

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Eric Lease Morgan]

Create EAD files to describe the collections in your archives because EAD is 
the MARC of the archives world. There are no two ways about it.  --ELM

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Kaile Zhu]

I am not an archivist, but my understanding is, the term finding aid is used in 
museums or archive collections.  EAD, like Matt said, is a xml-based metadata 
schema and can be used to describe finding aids.  In other words, EAD is not 
finding aids, but finding aids in EAD format are, just in digital or electronic 
format - HTML pages per se.  Look at the page you gave: abbott_seng1.php.  Why 
php is used?  Very likely, some xml parsing techniques are used in php 
programming and rendering the xml file into a HTML page.

I am not sure if I help to explain something.

Kelly Zhu

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Rachel 
Shaevel
Sent: 2013年5月10日 15:56
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

My apologies if my question didn't make sense.  I'm speaking as a cataloger, 
not a coder.  :)  Basically we have some of our finding aids as just plain old 
HTML pages, like this one:  
http://www.chipublib.org/cplbooksmovies/cplarchive/archivalcoll/abbott_seng1.php.
  The choices presented by TPTB were to continue adding HTML finding aid pages 
to our web site (which will soon be run by BiblioCommons) or to mark them up 
using EAD and upload them into CONTENTdm and make them part of our digital 
collections.  I suspect the finding aids in question are those that exist in 
paper format, not those that are already on our web site.

It's not really an either-or kind of thing.  I thought if the finding aids were 
marked up in EAD they would be more computer-actionable.  

Thanks again-

Rachel Shaevel
Electronic Resources Cataloger
Technical Services/Catalog Department
Chicago Public Library
Harold Washington Library Center
400 S. State St.
Chicago, IL 60605
P: (312) 747-4660
rshae...@chipublib.org


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew 
Sherman
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 3:43 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

Rachel,

EAD is just a metadata schema, which can be made to be read via html web pages 
though xslt, or some scripting that pulls out the relevant field data and makes 
it displayed nicer, usually in an HTML wrapper.  So I guess it would be helpful 
if you could elaborate on your question a bit more so we can give you some 
useful feedback.

Matt Sherman


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> Hello friendly Borg,
>
> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>
> Thanks!
> Rachel
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org<mailto:rshae...@chipublib.org>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Trevor Thornton]

Hi Rachel-

If you encode your finding aids in EAD you will have much more flexibility
to do other things with them in the future, including conversion to HTML
and crosswalking to other metadata formats as needed. Highly recommended
over simply marking them up as HTML.

-Trevor Thornton


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> My apologies if my question didn't make sense.  I'm speaking as a
> cataloger, not a coder.  :)  Basically we have some of our finding aids as
> just plain old HTML pages, like this one:
> http://www.chipublib.org/cplbooksmovies/cplarchive/archivalcoll/abbott_seng1.php.
>  The choices presented by TPTB were to continue adding HTML finding aid
> pages to our web site (which will soon be run by BiblioCommons) or to mark
> them up using EAD and upload them into CONTENTdm and make them part of our
> digital collections.  I suspect the finding aids in question are those that
> exist in paper format, not those that are already on our web site.
>
> It's not really an either-or kind of thing.  I thought if the finding aids
> were marked up in EAD they would be more computer-actionable.
>
> Thanks again-
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Matthew Sherman
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 3:43 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids
>
> Rachel,
>
> EAD is just a metadata schema, which can be made to be read via html web
> pages though xslt, or some scripting that pulls out the relevant field data
> and makes it displayed nicer, usually in an HTML wrapper.  So I guess it
> would be helpful if you could elaborate on your question a bit more so we
> can give you some useful feedback.
>
> Matt Sherman
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel  >wrote:
>
> > Hello friendly Borg,
> >
> > Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> > HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Rachel
> >
> > Rachel Shaevel
> > Electronic Resources Cataloger
> > Technical Services/Catalog Department
> > Chicago Public Library
> > Harold Washington Library Center
> > 400 S. State St.
> > Chicago, IL 60605
> > P: (312) 747-4660
> > rshae...@chipublib.org<mailto:rshae...@chipublib.org>
> >
>



-- 
Trevor Thornton
Senior Applications Developer, NYPL Labs
The New York Public Library
phone: 212-621-0287
email: trevorthorn...@nypl.org

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Rachel Shaevel]

My apologies if my question didn't make sense.  I'm speaking as a cataloger, 
not a coder.  :)  Basically we have some of our finding aids as just plain old 
HTML pages, like this one:  
http://www.chipublib.org/cplbooksmovies/cplarchive/archivalcoll/abbott_seng1.php.
  The choices presented by TPTB were to continue adding HTML finding aid pages 
to our web site (which will soon be run by BiblioCommons) or to mark them up 
using EAD and upload them into CONTENTdm and make them part of our digital 
collections.  I suspect the finding aids in question are those that exist in 
paper format, not those that are already on our web site.

It's not really an either-or kind of thing.  I thought if the finding aids were 
marked up in EAD they would be more computer-actionable.  

Thanks again-

Rachel Shaevel
Electronic Resources Cataloger
Technical Services/Catalog Department
Chicago Public Library
Harold Washington Library Center
400 S. State St.
Chicago, IL 60605
P: (312) 747-4660
rshae...@chipublib.org


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew 
Sherman
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 3:43 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

Rachel,

EAD is just a metadata schema, which can be made to be read via html web pages 
though xslt, or some scripting that pulls out the relevant field data and makes 
it displayed nicer, usually in an HTML wrapper.  So I guess it would be helpful 
if you could elaborate on your question a bit more so we can give you some 
useful feedback.

Matt Sherman


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> Hello friendly Borg,
>
> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>
> Thanks!
> Rachel
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org<mailto:rshae...@chipublib.org>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Matthew Sherman]

Rachel,

EAD is just a metadata schema, which can be made to be read via html web
pages though xslt, or some scripting that pulls out the relevant field data
and makes it displayed nicer, usually in an HTML wrapper.  So I guess it
would be helpful if you could elaborate on your question a bit more so we
can give you some useful feedback.

Matt Sherman


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rachel Shaevel wrote:

> Hello friendly Borg,
>
> Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs.
> HTML?  Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?
>
> Thanks!
> Rachel
>
> Rachel Shaevel
> Electronic Resources Cataloger
> Technical Services/Catalog Department
> Chicago Public Library
> Harold Washington Library Center
> 400 S. State St.
> Chicago, IL 60605
> P: (312) 747-4660
> rshae...@chipublib.org
>

[CODE4LIB] EAD vs. HTML for finding aids

[Rachel Shaevel]

Hello friendly Borg,

Does anyone have anything thoughts about using EAD for finding aids vs. HTML?  
Or are both going the way of the dinosaurs?

Thanks!
Rachel

Rachel Shaevel
Electronic Resources Cataloger
Technical Services/Catalog Department
Chicago Public Library
Harold Washington Library Center
400 S. State St.
Chicago, IL 60605
P: (312) 747-4660
rshae...@chipublib.org