Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
Actually, licenses with the vendor for the electronic journal generally determine if you can use it for ILL. This is in addition to Copyright restrictions that apply for articles in any format. Copyright may allow it, through Fair Use or paying CCC fees, but if the license does not, then you are in violation of the contract if you use it for ILL. Electronic format adds a fun layer of contract law to the Copyright discussion. ALIAS (Article Licensing Information Availability Service) is a generic license database that is loaded with publicly available licenses from most of the publishers and providers. If you are interested in seeing ALIAS, please go to the IDS Project page and download one of the presentations: http://www.idsproject.org/Tools/ALIAS.aspx ALIAS is also available for any ILLiad library through the use of the Serials Solutions or SFX Addons: https://prometheus.atlas-sys.com/display/ILLiadAddons/Addons+Directory . Additionally, these addons can be configured to use the Copyright Clearance Center's Get It Now Service: The Toolkit entry on it: http://workflowtoolkit.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/ccc-getitnow-service-and-workfst low/ http://workflowtoolkit.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/ccc-getitnow-service-and-workfst%20low/ The CCC Get-It-Now website is: http://www.copyright.com/content/cc3/en/toolbar/productsAndSolutions/getitnow.html The Get It Now Service is a Purchase on Demand service from CCC and gives libraries another option instead of paying Copyright fees which may be higher than purchasing the article. Hope that helps a little bit, Mark Mark Sullivan Systems Administrator for the College Libraries 1 College Circle SUNY Geneseo Geneseo, NY 14454 (585) 245-5698 On 5/7/2011 3:52 PM, Simon Spero wrote: On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 7:06 AM, karim boughidakbough...@gmail.com wrote: Don't be dismissive so fast. You may go back and do your homework. Check with your Counsel or literature. What's happening here is a work around LEGAL realities. [I am not a lawyer.] It's always a good idea to check with counsel, but it's a good idea to make sure that you talk to the right person in counsel's office since this is a relatively niche area of copyright law, and restrictions on single article ILL are more likely to arise in contract rather than under copyright, in which case they may have to check the specific provisions for each publisher. The right to make a copy of a single article from a periodical or collection for ILL are granted under 17 USC § 108 (d) and (g). The only specific restriction on the use of digital formats comes in section (b) (which covers unpublished works). It's hard to see how printing then scanning helps make legal anything that would be otherwise illegal under 108, so it would seem to be a licensing issue. Exit question: printing an article creates one perfected copy; scanning the printout creates a second copy, both as part of the same transaction. 108 (d)/(g) only authorize a single copy in this situation. Is this relying on fair use to cover the printed copy (which I assume is immediately destroyed unread once the scanning is complete?) Simon
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
Don't be dismissive so fast. You may go back and do your homework. Check with your Counsel or literature. What's happening here is a work around LEGAL realities. Karim Boughjida Twitter: @kboughida kbough...@gmail.com kbough...@library.gwu.edu On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Andrew Shuping ashup...@gmail.com wrote: Copyright rules would apply regardless of format and general counsel interpretations wouldn't really apply to this scenario. Andrew Shuping Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:17 PM, karim boughida kbough...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that it is also related to copyright restrictions and general counsel interpretations. If you print and re-scan. You're safer. photocopy rules apply and not electronic copy. Don't ask me more. I'm not a lawyer. Karim Boughida Twitter:kboughida kbough...@gmail.com kbough...@library.gwu.edu On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Shuping ashup...@gmail.com wrote: Ranti is correct in what she says about publishers. As an ILL person it drives me nuts that there are so many loopholes just to be able to send stuff from our databases via ILL. Some of them say you can but you have to download it, print it, and then scan it again. It isn't the ILL practices that need improvement, its bringing publishers into the 21st century. And as far as making it searchable its just not an option for a lot of library ILL departments when they have to rescan the document. There are only two sending programs for ILL software (Ariel and Odyssey) outside of email and Ariel is a huge pain in the butt as to what type of scanners work with it. And while Odyssey can support more scanners a number of ILL departments just don't have the money to buy a scanner/software to make it OCR compatible documents. Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies Services/Interlibrary Loan Jack Tarver Library, Macon, GA Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ranti Junus ranti.ju...@gmail.com wrote: It depends on the license agreement between the publisher and the lending library. Many publishers do not allow library ILL to simply download the PDF directly from their journal article page and send it to the requestor. A lot of publishers allow the lending library to download and print the article, and then send it to the borrowing library as paper copy. There are also publishers who allow to send article as print-scan-send. That is, we have to print out the PDF, scan it (back to the PDF), and send it as a file. Do ask me why the publisher want that kind of silliness. That's what I'm told when I complaint about exactly the same thing. It is my understanding the scan-to-pdf is the problematic one; ILL unit will need to have OCR-capable scanner and that might add another burden to them if the OCR result is not good. YMMV. ranti. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format. -- Bulk mail. Postage paid. --
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 7:06 AM, karim boughida kbough...@gmail.com wrote: Don't be dismissive so fast. You may go back and do your homework. Check with your Counsel or literature. What's happening here is a work around LEGAL realities. [I am not a lawyer.] It's always a good idea to check with counsel, but it's a good idea to make sure that you talk to the right person in counsel's office since this is a relatively niche area of copyright law, and restrictions on single article ILL are more likely to arise in contract rather than under copyright, in which case they may have to check the specific provisions for each publisher. The right to make a copy of a single article from a periodical or collection for ILL are granted under 17 USC § 108 (d) and (g). The only specific restriction on the use of digital formats comes in section (b) (which covers unpublished works). It's hard to see how printing then scanning helps make legal anything that would be otherwise illegal under 108, so it would seem to be a licensing issue. Exit question: printing an article creates one perfected copy; scanning the printout creates a second copy, both as part of the same transaction. 108 (d)/(g) only authorize a single copy in this situation. Is this relying on fair use to cover the printed copy (which I assume is immediately destroyed unread once the scanning is complete?) Simon
[CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format.
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
What do you mean by digital format exactly? Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies/Interlibrary Loan Library Jack Tarver Library, Mercer University Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format.
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
Sounds like he wants to request a searchable PDF as opposed to one composed of only images. --jody What do you mean by digital format exactly? Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies/Interlibrary Loan Library Jack Tarver Library, Mercer University Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format.
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
It depends on the license agreement between the publisher and the lending library. Many publishers do not allow library ILL to simply download the PDF directly from their journal article page and send it to the requestor. A lot of publishers allow the lending library to download and print the article, and then send it to the borrowing library as paper copy. There are also publishers who allow to send article as print-scan-send. That is, we have to print out the PDF, scan it (back to the PDF), and send it as a file. Do ask me why the publisher want that kind of silliness. That's what I'm told when I complaint about exactly the same thing. It is my understanding the scan-to-pdf is the problematic one; ILL unit will need to have OCR-capable scanner and that might add another burden to them if the OCR result is not good. YMMV. ranti. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format. -- Bulk mail. Postage paid.
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
Ranti is correct in what she says about publishers. As an ILL person it drives me nuts that there are so many loopholes just to be able to send stuff from our databases via ILL. Some of them say you can but you have to download it, print it, and then scan it again. It isn't the ILL practices that need improvement, its bringing publishers into the 21st century. And as far as making it searchable its just not an option for a lot of library ILL departments when they have to rescan the document. There are only two sending programs for ILL software (Ariel and Odyssey) outside of email and Ariel is a huge pain in the butt as to what type of scanners work with it. And while Odyssey can support more scanners a number of ILL departments just don't have the money to buy a scanner/software to make it OCR compatible documents. Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies Services/Interlibrary Loan Jack Tarver Library, Macon, GA Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ranti Junus ranti.ju...@gmail.com wrote: It depends on the license agreement between the publisher and the lending library. Many publishers do not allow library ILL to simply download the PDF directly from their journal article page and send it to the requestor. A lot of publishers allow the lending library to download and print the article, and then send it to the borrowing library as paper copy. There are also publishers who allow to send article as print-scan-send. That is, we have to print out the PDF, scan it (back to the PDF), and send it as a file. Do ask me why the publisher want that kind of silliness. That's what I'm told when I complaint about exactly the same thing. It is my understanding the scan-to-pdf is the problematic one; ILL unit will need to have OCR-capable scanner and that might add another burden to them if the OCR result is not good. YMMV. ranti. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format. -- Bulk mail. Postage paid.
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
It seems that it is also related to copyright restrictions and general counsel interpretations. If you print and re-scan. You're safer. photocopy rules apply and not electronic copy. Don't ask me more. I'm not a lawyer. Karim Boughida Twitter:kboughida kbough...@gmail.com kbough...@library.gwu.edu On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Shuping ashup...@gmail.com wrote: Ranti is correct in what she says about publishers. As an ILL person it drives me nuts that there are so many loopholes just to be able to send stuff from our databases via ILL. Some of them say you can but you have to download it, print it, and then scan it again. It isn't the ILL practices that need improvement, its bringing publishers into the 21st century. And as far as making it searchable its just not an option for a lot of library ILL departments when they have to rescan the document. There are only two sending programs for ILL software (Ariel and Odyssey) outside of email and Ariel is a huge pain in the butt as to what type of scanners work with it. And while Odyssey can support more scanners a number of ILL departments just don't have the money to buy a scanner/software to make it OCR compatible documents. Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies Services/Interlibrary Loan Jack Tarver Library, Macon, GA Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ranti Junus ranti.ju...@gmail.com wrote: It depends on the license agreement between the publisher and the lending library. Many publishers do not allow library ILL to simply download the PDF directly from their journal article page and send it to the requestor. A lot of publishers allow the lending library to download and print the article, and then send it to the borrowing library as paper copy. There are also publishers who allow to send article as print-scan-send. That is, we have to print out the PDF, scan it (back to the PDF), and send it as a file. Do ask me why the publisher want that kind of silliness. That's what I'm told when I complaint about exactly the same thing. It is my understanding the scan-to-pdf is the problematic one; ILL unit will need to have OCR-capable scanner and that might add another burden to them if the OCR result is not good. YMMV. ranti. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format. -- Bulk mail. Postage paid. --
Re: [CODE4LIB] How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?...
Copyright rules would apply regardless of format and general counsel interpretations wouldn't really apply to this scenario. Andrew Shuping Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:17 PM, karim boughida kbough...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that it is also related to copyright restrictions and general counsel interpretations. If you print and re-scan. You're safer. photocopy rules apply and not electronic copy. Don't ask me more. I'm not a lawyer. Karim Boughida Twitter:kboughida kbough...@gmail.com kbough...@library.gwu.edu On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Shuping ashup...@gmail.com wrote: Ranti is correct in what she says about publishers. As an ILL person it drives me nuts that there are so many loopholes just to be able to send stuff from our databases via ILL. Some of them say you can but you have to download it, print it, and then scan it again. It isn't the ILL practices that need improvement, its bringing publishers into the 21st century. And as far as making it searchable its just not an option for a lot of library ILL departments when they have to rescan the document. There are only two sending programs for ILL software (Ariel and Odyssey) outside of email and Ariel is a huge pain in the butt as to what type of scanners work with it. And while Odyssey can support more scanners a number of ILL departments just don't have the money to buy a scanner/software to make it OCR compatible documents. Andrew Shuping Emerging Technologies Services/Interlibrary Loan Jack Tarver Library, Macon, GA Robert Frost - In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ranti Junus ranti.ju...@gmail.com wrote: It depends on the license agreement between the publisher and the lending library. Many publishers do not allow library ILL to simply download the PDF directly from their journal article page and send it to the requestor. A lot of publishers allow the lending library to download and print the article, and then send it to the borrowing library as paper copy. There are also publishers who allow to send article as print-scan-send. That is, we have to print out the PDF, scan it (back to the PDF), and send it as a file. Do ask me why the publisher want that kind of silliness. That's what I'm told when I complaint about exactly the same thing. It is my understanding the scan-to-pdf is the problematic one; ILL unit will need to have OCR-capable scanner and that might add another burden to them if the OCR result is not good. YMMV. ranti. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, don warner saklad don.sak...@gmail.com wrote: How do you request digital format for a pdf interlibrary loan journal article where a digital format is available for the article?... not the image format if available in digital. Guidelines for interlibrary loan practices need to distinguish digital pdf from image pdf where journal articles are available in digital format. -- Bulk mail. Postage paid. --
