Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
I had another thought (ouch... hurts...) which is this: if OCLC had to open up its data, then it would have to improve its services to survive. K.G. Schneider On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:28:14 -0600, Danielle Plumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Kevin Kelly had an interesting post on The Technium last week about these sorts of issues (http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/01/better_than_fre.php), and his conclusion is exactly along the lines of Karen's post. His assumptions are: When copies are super abundant, they become worthless. When copies are super abundant, stuff which can't be copied becomes scarce and valuable. So he concludes: When copies are free, you need to sell things which can not be copied. The things which cannot be copied are services -- he lists eight generatives that have value. These are immediacy, personalization, interpretation, authenticity, accessibility, embodiment, patronage, and findability. Trust is also mentioned as a intangible asset with significant value. I find that this is a compelling argument, and it seems to be in line with things I hear coming out of OCLC Research, at least, and from the folks at Open Library, too. It will take time for an organization with as much inertia as OCLC has to change its modus operandi, but I think it will come. However, unlike others, I tend to be an optimist in the morning and a cynic by nightfall, so we'll see... Danielle Cunniff Plumer, Coordinator Texas Heritage Digitization Initiative Texas State Library and Archives Commission 512.463.5852 (phone) / 512.936.2306 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:04 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library Maybe Roy will answer that one -- but I doubt its that difficult to guess. OCLC's primary value is its bibliographic database and the information about its member's holdings. Nearly all of it's services are built around this. If they gave that information up to the Open Library, it would most certainly undermine their ILL, Cataloging and Grid Services initiatives. However, if a handful of members in relation to their membership participate in the program -- its no skin off their noses. --TR You know, I realize that's the going-in thinking, and OCLC has shared that with me. I fully understand the need for OCLC to protect its services. But I remember with a previous job that people (even some very important people) thought our product was our data, but it really wasn't: it was the services we wrapped around the data, including maintenance, delivery, affiliated products, etc. It's true that the data had to be good, but that goodness didn't come with a core dump of one-time static data. Keeping our data closed ultimately harmed us, perhaps perniciously, and I wish I had done a better job of championing a different path. I didn't have the skills or vocabulary and to this day I regret that. Karen G. Been there, done that, got the teeshirt Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
Kevin Kelly had an interesting post on The Technium last week about these sorts of issues (http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/01/better_than_fre.php), and his conclusion is exactly along the lines of Karen's post. His assumptions are: When copies are super abundant, they become worthless. When copies are super abundant, stuff which can't be copied becomes scarce and valuable. So he concludes: When copies are free, you need to sell things which can not be copied. The things which cannot be copied are services -- he lists eight generatives that have value. These are immediacy, personalization, interpretation, authenticity, accessibility, embodiment, patronage, and findability. Trust is also mentioned as a intangible asset with significant value. I find that this is a compelling argument, and it seems to be in line with things I hear coming out of OCLC Research, at least, and from the folks at Open Library, too. It will take time for an organization with as much inertia as OCLC has to change its modus operandi, but I think it will come. However, unlike others, I tend to be an optimist in the morning and a cynic by nightfall, so we'll see... Danielle Cunniff Plumer, Coordinator Texas Heritage Digitization Initiative Texas State Library and Archives Commission 512.463.5852 (phone) / 512.936.2306 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:04 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library Maybe Roy will answer that one -- but I doubt its that difficult to guess. OCLC's primary value is its bibliographic database and the information about its member's holdings. Nearly all of it's services are built around this. If they gave that information up to the Open Library, it would most certainly undermine their ILL, Cataloging and Grid Services initiatives. However, if a handful of members in relation to their membership participate in the program -- its no skin off their noses. --TR You know, I realize that's the going-in thinking, and OCLC has shared that with me. I fully understand the need for OCLC to protect its services. But I remember with a previous job that people (even some very important people) thought our product was our data, but it really wasn't: it was the services we wrapped around the data, including maintenance, delivery, affiliated products, etc. It's true that the data had to be good, but that goodness didn't come with a core dump of one-time static data. Keeping our data closed ultimately harmed us, perhaps perniciously, and I wish I had done a better job of championing a different path. I didn't have the skills or vocabulary and to this day I regret that. Karen G. Been there, done that, got the teeshirt Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. How would that work? Most of the records in OhioLINK are probably derived from OCLC Worldcat. Isn't sharing such records a no-no? Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqjmq4+t4qSfPIHIRAqggAKDGoUmRO/7tcmdTn7f8YEnaBTbhQQCfYSBy yJU+FrMcWRUGURJk29iDx5w= =CEg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
Isn't sharing such records a no-no? No, OCLC's guidelines for transfer (http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/default.htm) specifically give unrestricted transfer rights to libraries and non-commercial entities. The Open Library is both. It's a registered library in California and a non-profit. So in either situtation, it's not a problem. --TR *** Terry Reese Cataloger for Networked Resources Digital Production Unit Head Oregon State University Libraries Corvallis, OR 97331 tel: 541-737-6384 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http: http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset *** From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Peter Murray Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 2:50 PM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. How would that work? Most of the records in OhioLINK are probably derived from OCLC Worldcat. Isn't sharing such records a no-no? Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqjmq4+t4qSfPIHIRAqggAKDGoUmRO/7tcmdTn7f8YEnaBTbhQQCfYSBy yJU+FrMcWRUGURJk29iDx5w= =CEg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
For the record, I've clarified this with OCLC itself. It's exactly as Terry Weese says. Karen G. Schneider Isn't sharing such records a no-no? No, OCLC's guidelines for transfer (http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/def ault.htm) specifically give unrestricted transfer rights to libraries and non-commercial entities. The Open Library is both. It's a registered library in California and a non-profit. So in either situtation, it's not a problem. --TR *** Terry Reese Cataloger for Networked Resources Digital Production Unit Head Oregon State University Libraries Corvallis, OR 97331 tel: 541-737-6384 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http: http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset *** From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Peter Murray Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 2:50 PM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. How would that work? Most of the records in OhioLINK are probably derived from OCLC Worldcat. Isn't sharing such records a no-no? Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqjmq4+t4qSfPIHIRAqggAKDGoUmRO/7tcmdTn7f8YEnaBTbhQQCfYSBy yJU+FrMcWRUGURJk29iDx5w= =CEg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
Be careful to stay on the right side of the language about magnetic tape. Tim On 2/6/08, Reese, Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't sharing such records a no-no? No, OCLC's guidelines for transfer (http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/default.htm) specifically give unrestricted transfer rights to libraries and non-commercial entities. The Open Library is both. It's a registered library in California and a non-profit. So in either situtation, it's not a problem. --TR *** Terry Reese Cataloger for Networked Resources Digital Production Unit Head Oregon State University Libraries Corvallis, OR 97331 tel: 541-737-6384 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http: http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset *** From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Peter Murray Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 2:50 PM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. How would that work? Most of the records in OhioLINK are probably derived from OCLC Worldcat. Isn't sharing such records a no-no? Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqjmq4+t4qSfPIHIRAqggAKDGoUmRO/7tcmdTn7f8YEnaBTbhQQCfYSBy yJU+FrMcWRUGURJk29iDx5w= =CEg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
That's just a synonym for Internet tubes. Karen G. Schneider Be careful to stay on the right side of the language about magnetic tape. Tim On 2/6/08, Reese, Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't sharing such records a no-no? No, OCLC's guidelines for transfer (http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/def ault.htm) specifically give unrestricted transfer rights to libraries and non-commercial entities. The Open Library is both. It's a registered library in California and a non-profit. So in either situtation, it's not a problem. --TR *** Terry Reese Cataloger for Networked Resources Digital Production Unit Head Oregon State University Libraries Corvallis, OR 97331 tel: 541-737-6384 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http: http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset *** From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Peter Murray Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 2:50 PM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. How would that work? Most of the records in OhioLINK are probably derived from OCLC Worldcat. Isn't sharing such records a no-no? Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqjmq4+t4qSfPIHIRAqggAKDGoUmRO/7tcmdTn7f8YEnaBTbhQQCfYSBy yJU+FrMcWRUGURJk29iDx5w= =CEg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] Records for Open Library
I proposed this to our bigwigs. We'll see. ranti. On Feb 5, 2008 1:27 PM, John Furfey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Karen, The MBLWHOI Library sent our records. -John On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:11 PM, K.G. Schneider wrote: Has your library considered contributing records to Open Library ( http://www.openlibrary.org/ )? If so I'd like to hear from you on or off list. Thanks! Karen G. Schneider College Center for Library Automation http://www.cclaflorida.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Furfey Digital Systems and Services Coordinator MBLWHOI Library Woods Hole MA 02543 USA PHONE: 508-289-7435 EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mblwhoilibrary.org -- Bulk mail. Postage paid.
