Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-02 Thread Edward M. Corrado
I think Jeremy brings up some good points here about libraries (especially academic ones) becoming provisioning organizations versus collection building ones. In regards to journals, in a number of ways libraries already are. Libraries send checks to Ebsco, Elserver, ProQuest. etc. and out patrons

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-02 Thread Tom Keays
I wonder if Mr Godin, in articulating his vision of the library as a place filled with so many web terminals there's always at least one empty, isn't framing it around the Digital Public Library of America proposal? He didn't specifically name it but, with all the acclaim for the idea in the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-02 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
On 6/1/2011 10:46 PM, Frumkin, Jeremy wrote: that content for the user? If we are indeed trying to meet our users' needs, perhaps we need not to continue to build just-in-case collections, but provide just-in-time access to information resources, regardless of their location, and perhaps even

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-01 Thread Eric Hellman
Karen, The others who have responded while I was off, you know, doing stuff, have done a much better job of answering your question than I would have. I would have said something glib like almost all ways, with respect to open-access digital materials. There's a shift in library mindset that

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-01 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
So, selecting which public domain free on the internet works should be included in the catalog (presumably considering both quality of digital copy and quality/usefulness of the work itself), keeping track of them all of them in their various locations, adding links to them all to our

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-01 Thread Karen Coyle
Eric, The problem with linking open access materials into catalogs isn't entirely simple, and I don't agree that librarians haven't thought about how to do this. I was trying to get a file of MARC records for all of the Internet Archive's open access materials so that those could be

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-01 Thread Alexander Johannesen
Hi, On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: There are some unanswered questions about what the purpose of the catalog is or should be in our users research workflow, and it's not obvious to me whether that purpose will involve putting any possible book or

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-06-01 Thread Frumkin, Jeremy
So, this is quite a good thread, and it is quite interesting to read the different viewpoints about what information resources libraries provide. I'm wondering if we might look at this from a slightly different angle - most of the discussion has been about what libraries include in their

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread graham
Not replying for Eric but I hope he doesn't mind me butting in too.. As a newcomer to (academic) libraries from a software background, some of the things that first struck me were; 1. The amount of money spent on non-free stuff means it has to be emphasized over free stuff in publicity to try to

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Andreas Orphanides
Quoting Karen Coyle 05/19/11 1:32 AM Eric, In what ways do you think that libraries today are not friendly to free stuff? kc From my own (rather limited) experience, I think collection developers see free/open source/open access stuff as a bit of a management challenge: - As Graham

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Mike Taylor
On 19 May 2011 12:31, Andreas Orphanides andreas_orphani...@ncsu.edu wrote: - I think there's a fear of a slippery slope and/or information overload: How do you assess the whole realm of freely-available stuff? I dunno. How do you assess the whole realm of proprietary stuff? Wouldn't the same

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Andreas Orphanides
On 5/19/2011 7:36 AM, Mike Taylor wrote: I dunno. How do you assess the whole realm of proprietary stuff? Wouldn't the same approach work for free stuff? -- Mike. A fair question. I think there's maybe at least two parts: marketing and bundling. Marketing is of course not ideal, and likely

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Bill Dueber
My short answer: It's too damn expensive to check out everything that's available for free to see if it's worth selecting for inclusion, and library's (at least as I see them) are supposed to be curated, not comprehensive. My long answer: The most obvious issue is that the OPAC is traditionally

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Yitzchak Schaffer
On 2011-05-18 20:30, Eric Hellman wrote: Exactly. I apologize if my comment was perceived as coy, but I've chosen to invest in the possibility that Creative Commons licensing is a viable way forward for libraries, authors, readers, etc. Here's a link the last of a 5 part series on open-access

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Another problem with free online resources not just 'collection selection', but maintenance/support once selected. A resource hosted elsewhere can stop working at any time, which is a management challenge. The present environment is ALREADY a management challenge, of course. But consider the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread graham
Replying to Jonathan's mail rather at random, since several people are saying similar things. 1. 'Free resources can vanish any time.' But so can commercial ones, which is why LOCKSS was created. This isn't an insoluble issue or one unique to free resources. 2. 'Managing 100s of paid resources

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Karen Coyle
I wonder if we aren't conflating a diverse set of issues here. - free (no cost) - free and online - free = not peer reviewed - online As Jonathan notes, we already face problems with online materials, even those we subscribe to. And libraries do take in free hard-copy books in the form of

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Mike Taylor
There is no such thing as a zero-cost lunch; but there is such a thing as a freedom lunch. I concur with Karen that (once again) much confusion is being generated here by the English language's lamentable use of the same word free to mean too such different things. -- Mike. On 19 May 2011

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
On 5/19/2011 11:01 AM, graham wrote: Replying to Jonathan's mail rather at random, since several people are saying similar things. 1. 'Free resources can vanish any time.' But so can commercial ones, which is why LOCKSS was created. This isn't an insoluble issue or one unique to free resources.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Luciano Ramalho
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, graham gra...@theseamans.net wrote: 2. It is hard to justify spending time on improving access to free stuff when the end result would be good for everyone, not just the institution doing the work (unless it can be kept in a consortium and outside-world access

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Luciano Ramalho
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Andreas Orphanides andreas_orphani...@ncsu.edu wrote: - As Graham says, there's a sunk-cost issue: you're going to prioritize the stuff you paid for over free stuff since you've already invested resources in it. Everybody who believes in sunk-cost should

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-19 Thread Ryan Engel
There are some who argue that if it's valuable to others, then others should pay for it (even when the improved access benefits your institution first and foremost, and distribution of the improvements is an arguably beneficial side effect) . Why should one institution carry the financial

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-18 Thread Eric Hellman
Some ebooks, in fact some of the greatest ever written, already cost less than razor blades. Eric (who just finished writing a chapter on open-access e-books) On May 16, 2011, at 7:52 PM, Luciano Ramalho wrote: 1) Why quote the ebook price in 1962 dollars? The reality in 2011 is that Kindle

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-18 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Do you mean ones not under copyright? On 5/17/2011 3:16 PM, Eric Hellman wrote: Some ebooks, in fact some of the greatest ever written, already cost less than razor blades. Eric (who just finished writing a chapter on open-access e-books) On May 16, 2011, at 7:52 PM, Luciano Ramalho wrote:

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-18 Thread David Friggens
Some ebooks, in fact some of the greatest ever written, already cost less than razor blades. Do you mean ones not under copyright? Those, plus Creative Commons etc.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-18 Thread Eric Hellman
Exactly. I apologize if my comment was perceived as coy, but I've chosen to invest in the possibility that Creative Commons licensing is a viable way forward for libraries, authors, readers, etc. Here's a link the last of a 5 part series on open-access ebooks. I hope it inspires work in the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-18 Thread Karen Coyle
Quoting Eric Hellman e...@hellman.net: Exactly. I apologize if my comment was perceived as coy, but I've chosen to invest in the possibility that Creative Commons licensing is a viable way forward for libraries, authors, readers, etc. Here's a link the last of a 5 part series on

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
On 5/16/2011 7:52 PM, Luciano Ramalho wrote: And then we need to consider the rise of the Kindle. An ebook costs about $1.60 in 1962 dollars. A thousand ebooks can fit on one device, 1) Why quote the ebook price in 1962 dollars? The reality in 2011 is that Kindle books in general are too

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Roy Zimmer
I think 50 cents would be right in the ballpark. My earliest scifi paperbacks cost me that much, mid-60's. Roy Zimmer Waldo Library Western Michigan University On 5/17/2011 11:18 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: On 5/16/2011 7:52 PM, Luciano Ramalho wrote: And then we need to consider the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Keith Jenkins
I always get suspicious when an author converts current prices into 1962 dollars for no apparent reason, and without explanation. Keith On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Roy Zimmer roy.zim...@wmich.edu wrote: I think 50 cents would be right in the ballpark. My earliest scifi paperbacks cost

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Matt Amory
On 5/17/11, Keith Jenkins k...@cornell.edu wrote: I always get suspicious when an author converts current prices into 1962 dollars for no apparent reason, and without explanation. Keith On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Roy Zimmer roy.zim...@wmich.edu wrote: I think 50 cents would be right

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Matt Amory
I think the 1962 dollars and the razor blades point both serve to paper over the main problem with the argument: Netflix is not free, and libraries are not driven by profit motive. On 5/17/11, Keith Jenkins k...@cornell.edu wrote: I always get suspicious when an author converts current prices

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Richard, Joel M
It's obvious, isn't it? 1962 was the Best. Year. Ever. And it's all be downhill since then. :) --Joel On May 17, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Keith Jenkins wrote: I always get suspicious when an author converts current prices into 1962 dollars for no apparent reason, and without explanation. Keith

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-17 Thread Walter Lewis
On 17 May 2011, at 11:18 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: On 5/16/2011 7:52 PM, Luciano Ramalho wrote: And then we need to consider the rise of the Kindle. An ebook costs about $1.60 in 1962 dollars. A thousand ebooks can fit on one device, 1) Why quote the ebook price in 1962 dollars? The

[CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-16 Thread Mike Taylor
Seth Godin is not a library professional -- he's a marketing guru with a string of best-selling books and a blog that manages to be both insightful AND brief on an astonishingly consistent basis. (http://sethgodin.typepad.com/ -- highly recommended). So he's outside the library world, looking in,

Re: [CODE4LIB] Seth Godin on The future of the library

2011-05-16 Thread Luciano Ramalho
Mike, thanks for the link to Seth's excellent post. I do take issue with this paragraph, though: And then we need to consider the rise of the Kindle. An ebook costs about $1.60 in 1962 dollars. A thousand ebooks can fit on one device, easily. Easy to store, easy to sort, easy to hand to your