On 2/3/06, Eric Lease Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your comments regarding our initial implementation would be greatly
Could you explain what we're seeing and what we should be looking for
(like, the second digital image
On 2/23/06, Ryan Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Again I'm unsure if we would be looking at mostly small snippets and
functions or full fledged classes/libraries.
Thanks for pointing this out; looks good.
Now with any of this, it not so much the actual libraries and
In our next generation OPAC prototype, we do typed tagging and
comments. (Typed means that there is a difference between a patron
tagging something and a reference librarian; the tags and comments are
fed back into the search engine, and alters relevance ranking) One day
it may see the day of
On 3/9/06, Ed Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lucky you! I've had similar problems in non-library settings, so I
don't think that the library community is any worse at following
software best practices than other communities.
Ok, so what you're saying is that is, for me, an isolated
On 3/9/06, Kevin S. Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's my opinion anyway... not sure this has anything to do with code.
You're right, it hasn't; it was only geek related in the sense that we
probably all face conservativism in liue of new and fancy code. Sorry
for the noise, and thanks for
On 3/28/06, Hickey,Thom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've attached a compressed tar file of compact.xsl, compact.css and
mudlumps.xml, a test record. After you've extracted the files to a
directory you should be able to view mudlumps.xml with a browser and see
I'd like to have a
On 3/29/06, K.G. Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Develop web services (accessible by subscription) to allow a developer to
include some of the LII in an application.
I was going to do exactly this for the Australasian part of the world
(still pending; too much to do). I think the idea is a
On 4/12/06, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you are instead using a formula where an increased
number of records for a given work increases your ranking, all other
things being equal---I'm skeptical.
Ditto; I think the answer to this is that there needs to be some
On 4/12/06, K.G. Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do users actually determine relevance or do they have faith in Google to
provide the best results on the first results page?
I'd say people use a click and try n times, before refine search
until relevance is fulfilled technique. But again,
On 6/6/06, Michael Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We need something. My ILS has decided that their next generation
catalog will be a portal with its own database, etc. I already have one
database with MARC data why do I need another to hold the non-MARC data.
Why isn't my ILS working to
On 6/7/06, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My impression is that there are LOTS of catalogers interested in
discussing this topic---the future of The Catalog.
As much as I would love to disagree with you, I don't. :) My stance on
this is not to let hackers create applications
On 6/7/06, Ross Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That by trotting out their Endeca powered catalog, they've finally
gotten the tangible that we nerds have been unable to get
institutional support for. Now every librarian in the country wants
clustering and faceted search.
Sorry, I'm in
On 7/13/06, Amy M Ostrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or does anyone know about photo galleries and accessibility?
There is a bigger group of people which can both see images and have
accessibility needs; low-vision users (estimated some 30% of all
Having said that, there's really nothing
On 10/18/06, Ross Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See also: http://www.textualize.com/trac/browser/ropenurl
Why? What are we looking at?
Ultimately, all things are known because you want to believe you know.
- Frank Herbert
You may be interested in OpenFRBR:
Its aim is to build a full, free implementation of FRBR, showing
everything it can do, and looking for problems along the way. Everyone's
welcome to get involved in whatever way they wish.
I can't get to that site (is
On 1/18/07, Doran, Michael D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So you may find that there is a well-founded reluctance among
Voyager systems people to get too carried away with the DBA 101 stuff. ;-)
We're routing around the problem by creating a webservice that is
Voyager specific and let other apps
On 3/6/07, Noel Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm finally back the office today and the videos are in process... I'm
not sure where they'll go, but they'll be up somewhere.
BTW, if anybody has any ideas for royalty free title music (a short 3+
second thing), I'm open. I'll whip up something
On 3/24/07, Michael J. Giarlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hmm? What's that you say? Just a sec, but in the meantime, why not sit
down and have some of this delicious Kool-Aid over here? It's Ruby
Red-flavored; I think you'll like it.
Come, now; for those who meddle in things PHP knows that a
On 5/18/07, Patty De Anda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
MANAGER OF DATA SYSTEMS
... and not a word (that I could find) on where in the world - or
where in the assumed USA - this position is held. :)
On 6/30/07, Eric Lease Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are the characteristics of a good Web Service API?
That you refrain from the notion of an API. :)
Seriously, before you do anything, read the book Restful WebServices
by Sam Ruby and Leonard Richardson
On 7/20/07, Andrew Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent stuff, and thanks for the open-source effort.
Three things ;
1. Will there be efforts towards a development community outside your library?
2. http://www.vufind.org/demo/Record/56179 has serious problems in
On Nov 9, 2007 7:42 AM, Carl Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm seeking some help understanding here. From my perspective
(again, that of a long time vendor of commercial software having
recently moved to commercial service for OSS software) this is
exactly what a number of us
On Jan 16, 2008 7:08 AM, Aaron Swartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent initiative! Joined, and I'll forward the information around
to other communities I know do this type of work.
Let's try the litmus test for enterprisey business bullshit : porridge ;
Recommendations for Users
* Look for a sustainable community that has a critical mass of skills
* Look for a cultural match between the porridge community and
your internal developers and user
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 7:51 PM, K.G. Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, Alexander, I disagree.
What, is that allowed!? :)
Gartner may sound creaky but under the starchy
language, this is pretty revolutionary advice.
I can't agree with the revolutionary advice part; business leaders,
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:45 AM, D Chudnov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...at the risk of upsetting *everybody*...
It's a bit depressive that once we get an interesting discussion going
on this list which normally has such low volume, and which is
*definitely* on-topic, someone comes along and
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:06 PM, K.G. Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I feel self-conscious about seeing posts reflected in the planet that
are not related to library technology, only because I'm not willing to
break up my blog into sub-blogs and don't know if oysters and pace
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 13:42, Nicole Engard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am missing something right in front of my eyes. I'm rusty on my
PHP, I'm wondering if someone can help me with this error:
Warning: gmmktime() expects parameter 3 to be long, string given in
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 17:04, Eric Lease Morgan emor...@nd.edu wrote:
Can somebody say MARCXML or MODS complete with a schema?
Well, we can say it, and I think we *have* said it for a very long
time, but it doesn't seem to change anything. Damn those words.
Such solutions offer at least
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 17:09, Ardie Bausenbach a...@loc.gov wrote:
Since that time, many other national libraries have moved from
their national formats to MARC 21, including (among others),
the UK, Germany, Finland, and Spain.
I know a few more, but another point worth, er, screaming about,
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 18:56, Kyle Banerjee kyle.baner...@gmail.com wrote:
There are arguments to do so, but the business case is not strong.
Well, I'd say the future of the library world is a good business case,
and I know several people (high and low) fully aware of it, but I
think it's hard
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:29, Rebecca S Guenther r...@loc.gov wrote:
It is interesting though that a study of different metadata
formats at Los Alamos National Labs a few years ago
concluded that MARCXML was the richest and most robust.
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 15:55, Rebecca S Guenther r...@loc.gov wrote:
Yes, better late than never (we're a small office and stretched thin).
You're not *that* small, no? :)
Also we want to explore MARC/RDF. We also have to keep in mind
that MARC is also used by non-AACR2 users (and
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 21:43, Rebecca S Guenther r...@loc.gov wrote:
Patrick is right that an XML schema such as MODS or MARCXML would be text/xml.
I would strongly advise against text/xml, as it is an oxymoron (text
is not XML XML is not text even if it is delivered through a text
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 22:32, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
Didn't we finish having this conversation last week? We talked about all
this stuff being brought up now last week.
We did indeed, and your summary is better than what my retort could
have been; spot on.
I guess it's hard
One question we haven't asked is if we really need a MIME type for
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 23:28, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
PPS: Yes, it has been asked, and it's pretty obvious to me that we do.
I wasn't asking for technical reasons; I was more having a stab at how
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:44, Mike Taylor m...@indexdata.com wrote:
Going back to someone's point about living in the real
world (sorry, I forget who), the Inconvenient Truth is that 90% of
programs and 99% of users, on seeing an http: URL, will try to treat
it as a link. They don't know any
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 22:38, Dr R. Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote:
I would encourage looking at rdf triplestores seriously, if the graph
approach is the direction that you want to go in.
Or, Topic Maps which is *not* a triplestore, closer to the OO model
(basically a meta data model),
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 14:33, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
That's not an entirely useful comparison on topic maps and RDF.
If I indented to be useful I'd write something substantial, backed up
with stuff other than humour. I'll give that a go the next time. :)
We currently use
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 23:34, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
The difference between URIs and URLs? I don't believe that URL is
something that exists any more in any standard, it's all URIs. Correct me if
Sure it exists: URLs are a subset of URIs. URLs are locators as
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 07:10, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
RDF, unlike topic maps, is being used by substantial numbers of people who
we interact with in the real world and would like to interoperate with. If
we used RDF rather than topic maps internally, that interoperability
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:32, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
Yes, we mint something very similar (see http://authority.nzetc.org/52969/
for mine), but none of our interoperability partners do. None of our local
libraries, none of our local archives and only one of our local
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 00:20, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
Can you show me where this definition of a URL vs. a URI is made in any
RFC or standard-like document?
From http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3986.html ;
1.1.3. URI, URL, and URN
A URI can be further classified as a
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 01:10, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
It stands in the way of using them in the fully realized sem web vision.
Ok, I'm puzzled. How? As the SemWeb vision is all about first-order
logic over triplets, and the triplets are defined as URIs, if you can
With Topic Maps it's been solved years and years ago, and it's the
part of it that the RDF world didn't think of until recently (and
applied their kludges). I'm not going to bang my gong on this, just
urge you to read up on PSIs.
Another nail in the library coffin, especially the academic ones ;
Organisations and people are slowly turning into data producers, not
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 23:25, Joe Hourcle onei...@grace.nascom.nasa.gov wrote:
You're forgetting the 5th Law:
The library is a growing organism.
Not forgotten, I just don't believe it anymore. And, taken to its
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 22:44, Andreas Orphanides
You say that as though libraries are all about books.
Libraries still have the word biblio as their primer, and it
certainly is the written word on paper that occupies most of our time,
no? Sure libraries around
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 18:44, Mike Taylor m...@indexdata.com wrote:
Can't you just tell us?
Sorry, but surely you must be tired of me banging on this gong by now?
It's not that I don't want to seem helpful, but I've been writing a
bit on this here already and don't want to be marked as spam for
On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 00:32, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
I don't understand from your description how Topic Maps solve the
identifying multiple versions of a standard problem.
It's the mechanism of having multiple identifiers for Topics, so, in pseudo ;
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 16:04, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote:
* One namespace is used to define two _totally_ separate sets of
elements. There's no reason why this can't be done.
As opposed to all the reasons for not doing it. :) This is crap design
of a higher magnitude, and the
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 19:34, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
In the real world, we use things when they solve the problem in front of us
in as easy a way as possible
And somehow you're suggesting that I don't live in the real-world? :)
Good try, but as far as I've experienced,
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 17:35, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote:
For example, the owl:sameAs predicate is used to express that the
subject and object are the same 'thing'. Then the application can infer
that if a owl:sameAs b, and a x y, then b x y.
Yes, but there's a snag; as RDF
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 17:45, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote:
I'll quote Mike (and most common approaches to the problem):
Don't Do That Then.
Oh, for sure. :) But these are very subtle things that are hard to
understand, and certainly the long-term implications, so
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:07, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote:
- without competition, Google (with the agreement of the registry, whose
purpose is to garner as much income as possible for rights holders) will
charge a price that is more than some institutions will be able to afford;
I guess I'm the one who's got to step up to the self-slaughtering
altar, but the fact that a lot of our systems break or don't know how
to handle HTML is despicable. I'm sure you guys are familiar with RSS
/ Atom, and because in there we *expect* HTML and therefore make sure
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 15:16, Roy Tennant tenna...@oclc.org wrote:
Could you elaborate a bit? In my mind, the only semantic web technology of
any note is linked data.
What do you mean by linked data? I work in fields of semantic web
technology where there's very little linked data (ie.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 16:19, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
I'm guessing that Roy meant linked data in the sense of
http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html and http://linkeddata.org/
I'm pretty sure he did, too. I guess I was trying to smoke out his
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 22:47, Walker, David dwal...@calstate.edu wrote:
I would suggest it's more because, once you step outside of the
primary use case for OpenURL, you end-up bumping into *other* standards.
These issues were raised all the back when it was created, as well. I
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 04:17, Jakob Voss jakob.v...@gbv.de wrote:
But all the flaws of XML can be traced back to SGML which is why we now use
JSON despite all of its limitations.
Hmm, this is wrong on so many levels. First, SGML was pretty darn good
for its *purpose*, but it was a geeks dream
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:54, Eric Hellman e...@hellman.net wrote:
May I just add here that of all the things we've talked about in these
threads, perhaps the only thing that will still be in use a hundred years
from now will be Unicode. إن شاء الله
May I remind you that we're still using
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 18:47, Owen Stephens o...@ostephens.com wrote:
Could you expand on how you think the problem that OpenURL tackles would
have been better approached with existing mechanisms?
As we all know, it's pretty much a spec for a way to template incoming
and outgoing URLs,
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 20:29, Owen Stephens o...@ostephens.com wrote:
However I'd argue that actually OpenURL 'succeeded' because it did manage to
get some level of acceptance (ignoring the question of whether it is v0.1 or
v1.0) - the cost of developing 'link resolvers' would have been much
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 06:59, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait.
Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote:
... people took Simon's comment seriously?
Language is a funny thing ; some times the things that are being said
is taken seriously. And the script-haters are spread far and wide, so
there was no reason not to take him seriously. Should the
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Nate Vack njv...@wisc.edu wrote:
Switching to an XML format doesn't help with that at all.
I'm willing to take it further and say that MARCXML was the worst
thing the library world ever did. Some might argue it was a good first
step, and that it was better
Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress r...@loc.gov wrote:
It really is possible to make your point without being quite so obnoxious.
Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Walker, David dwal...@calstate.edu wrote:
Your criticisms of MARC-XML all seem to presume that MARC-XML is the
goal, the end point in the process. But MARC-XML is really better seen as a
utility, a middle step between binary MARC and the real goal, which is
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Bill Dueber b...@dueber.com wrote:
Here, I think you're guilty of radically underestimating lots of people
around the library world. No one thinks MARC is a good solution to
our modern problems, and no one who actually knows what MARC
is has trouble
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Bill Dueber b...@dueber.com wrote:
Sorry. That was rude, and uncalled for. I disagree that the problem is
easily solved, even without the politics. There've been lots of attempts to
try to come up with a sufficiently expressive toolset for dealing with
Political? For sure. Engineering? Not so much.
Ok. Solve it. Let us know when you're done.
Wow, lamest reply so far. Surely you could muster a tad bit better? I
was excited about getting a list of the hardest problems, for example,
I'd love to see that. Then by that perhaps you could explain
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:44 AM, Doran, Michael D do...@uta.edu wrote:
Can that limit threshold be raised? If so, are there reasons why it should
not be raised?
Is it to throttle spam or something? 50 seems rather low, and it's
rather depressing to have a lively discussion throttled like
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Elliot Hallmark permafact...@gmail.com wrote:
However, I switched to this other scripting
language, python, because it could do things php cant.
Not to start a flame, but that's a rather big statement which I think
A) needs backing up, and B) is probably untrue.
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
Pretty sure it wasn't depressing to the vast majority of the listserv
audience. That was/is a discussion that benefited from a timeout period,
like you give the pre-schoolers.
Given we're adults, and not in pre-school,
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:58 AM, Chris Fitzpatrick cf...@stanford.edu wrote:
+1 to the this discussion is really depressing me camp.
Ok, ok, I get the message. This is no place to voice strong opinions
about bad library tech, and my (different, but not bad) language nor
Elliot Hallmark permafact...@gmail.com wrote:
Other things beyond that seemed
awkward, difficult, or impossible from what I knew. python immediately
jumped out to me as a tool more suited to these tasks.
The fact that Python has a looping run-time environment is, of course,
Olá, como vai?
Luciano Ramalho luci...@ramalho.org wrote:
Actually, Python is a general purpose programming language. It was not
created specifically for server side scripting like PHP was. But it is
very suitable to that task.
I'm not sure talking about what something used to be is as
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Bradley Allen
Mark- I would highly recommend looking at Tornado
(http://www.tornadoweb.org) as an alternative to using Django without
I'd second that one. Has used it for a couple of projects, and it
seriously cut down
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
I would be very unlikely to use someone's homegrown library specific
scripting language. However, if you want to make a library for an existing
language that handles your specific domain well, I'd be
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:
There are some unanswered questions about what the purpose of the catalog is
or should be in our users research workflow, and it's not obvious to me
that purpose will involve putting any possible book or
Just my two bobs ;
We're going through various stages of testing out tablets for both
kiosks *and* portable workstations (for nurses and staff), and have
tried out iPads and various Androids, and our current favorite is
actually the Asus Eee Pad Transformer, a vanilla (but good quality)
Is it okay to just use the classes I need or should I include the super
classes which they belong to?
I think we also need to define a few concepts here. What do you mean,
include? As far as I can tell, you want to say something like
Here's a few concepts we're using, and their
I could give you tons of advice, most of it specific to some
technological domain or another, but over the years I've more or less
settled on one thing that beat out all the other ;
Once you grok data models, what they are, how they work, and all the
extended family (schemas,
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Nate Vack njv...@wisc.edu wrote:
A more productive task is to understand the who, how, when, and
thenceforth of what tasks actual people want to accomplish with their
Understanding this is not disconnected from designing data models
Kyle Banerjee wrote:
Starting with data modeling is like trying to learn a new spoken language
by focusing on grammar [...]
Hmm. It seems that a lot of people are, shall we say, somewhat
misguided to what data modelling is, even mighty WikiPedia who makes
it into a formal process of sorts, and
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:49 PM, stuart yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz wrote:
As much as I have nothing against anyone on this list, isn't it a little
US-centric? Didn't we make that mistake before?
I wouldn't worry. A dream-team have no basis in reality, hence the
dream part. I'd like to see a
Richard Wallis richard.wal...@talis.com wrote:
Your are not the only one who is looking for a better term for what is
being created - maybe we should hold a competition to come up with one.
A named graph gets thrown around a lot, and even though this is
technically correct, it's neither nice
Richard Wallis richard.wal...@talis.com wrote:
Collection of triples?
Yes, no baggage there ... :) Some of us are doing this completely without a
single triplet, so I'm not sure it is accurate or even politically correct.
A classic example of only being able to describe/understand the
I'm in the middle of creating a meta data management system (including
merging and persistent identifier management) for a somewhat different
domain (intranets and business integration), but it's based on Topic Maps
and so is well suited to other means of meta data handling / mangling. It's
and will not contain
any Unicode, if you were hoping to include that as part of your testing.
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:36 AM
--What project management software are you using?
Semantic MediaWiki, xSiteable
--What made you choose the system?
Most project management software is written by geeks, not for humans. They
all propose some methodology to go with their model, but either their model
is inflexible (and
I love the Trove from the National Library of Australia ;
Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
--- http://shelter.nu/blog/ --
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote:
Eric, I really don't see how RDF or linked data is any more difficult to
grasp than a database design
Well, there's at least one thing which makes people tilt; the flexible
structures for semantics (or, ontologies) in
Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote:
This is definitely where RDF outclasses almost every alternative*, because
each serialization (besides RDF/XML) works extremely well for specific
Hmm. That depends on what you mean by alternative to RDF
serialisation. I can think of a
Robert Sanderson azarot...@gmail.com wrote:
c) I've never used a Topic Maps application. (and see (a))
How do you know?
There /are/ challenges with RDF [...]
But for the vast majority of cases, the problems are solved (JSON-LD) or no
one cares any more (httpRange14).
What are you
Hmm. So, I'm a big fan of WikiPedia and would still go that way even
if the data can be haphazard. WikiPedia has a lot of classics with a
section called Lead characters (Pride and Prejudice included) where
the focus is the novel first, which should be easy to call and then
trim with some simple
Mail list logo