Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step? At the risk of starting a framework holy war, I'd say that if you're in the I've learned some PHP and now I'm ready for the next level camp, I'd recommend at least trying Ruby on Rails. Having written both a lot of Ruby (and Rails) and Python (and Django) code, I can say that unless I'm doing heavy math lifting, Ruby is nicer to work with -- to me, the language just flows better and is more consistent. And while in the past, Django had some more polished edges, Rails 3 has pretty much closed that gap. Again, though, don't stress the choice too much. Both are very solid products that will serve you well. Have fun! Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
Congratulations on discovering python. It will serve you much better than php, or any other scripting language. Skipping to the punch-line, you should dive into python before you dive in django: http://diveintopython.org/ You will have a very much more easy time if you learn how to debug a script in the shell (rather than running a program endless times with different print statements), use introspection, slice lists and basic OOP. I also learned php first, inorder to add a shopping cart onto my friend's website. However, I switched to this other scripting language, python, because it could do things php cant. For instance, my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before windows heard about it. Then I kept discovering amazing things python can do that php cant. I helped write a non-sequential optical ray tracer in python. When it needed to be faster there were several libraries for writing C code directly in a pythonic syntax. Python has hooks into everything, like optical character recognition, electronic music sequeuencing/generation, serial port i/o. Gnucash, an opensource quicken like accounting package, has python bindings. when there were no decent free unRARing programs available, I discovered python could do it easily. And if you decide you need to use the parallel vector processeors of your nvida graphic card's onboard multicore GPU, there is a package for that: PyCuda. And they all weave together seamlessly. Django could use PyCuda in a custom form validation method to determine if an archived folder of pictures you have uploaded has an image of a car with a decipherable licence plate. Anyways, python is great, and by extension I expect Django is also (just learning it myself). good luck, Elliot
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Elliot Hallmark permafact...@gmail.com wrote: However, I switched to this other scripting language, python, because it could do things php cant. Not to start a flame, but that's a rather big statement which I think A) needs backing up, and B) is probably untrue. For instance, my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before windows heard about it. Then I kept discovering amazing things python can do that php cant. For instance, PHP can do this fine. Was there something in particular you're thinking of that PHP can't do? I helped write a non-sequential optical ray tracer in python. When it needed to be faster there were several libraries for writing C code directly in a pythonic syntax. Python has hooks into everything, like optical character recognition, electronic music sequeuencing/generation, serial port i/o. Again, PHP the same. For the sophisticated hacker, most languages can be tweaked to solve almost any problem. And I'm not even suggesting that you use PHP. Happy hacking. Alex -- Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps --- http://shelter.nu/blog/ -- -- http://www.google.com/profiles/alexander.johannesen ---
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
For instance, my first project in python involved capturing keyboard input before windows heard about it. Then I kept discovering amazing things python can do that php cant. For instance, PHP can do this fine. Was there something in particular you're thinking of that PHP can't do? Yes, It was irresponsible for me to make a blanket statement like that without having very much experience with php. I used php to make a website from data in a database. Other things beyond that seemed awkward, difficult, or impossible from what I knew. python immediately jumped out to me as a tool more suited to these tasks. I guess it was just the way I came across things, my own personal history. From my experience, it seemed php was a server side scripting language. Can you write a php script that gets key presses and doesn't pass them along to windows to process? I thought the OS would have to process the key press, pass it along to the php server and then php could process it. (pyhook) Also, how would you go about using a GPU from a graphics card in php? (python cuda in google gives many results) Has anyone written a scientific computing package along the lines of matlab in php (scipy, numpy, matplotlib)? Or a non-sequential optical raytracer? if you wanted to write a web interface for GNU cash or another well established accounting program, could you do it? (GNU cash has python bindings to its internal functions, I believe no other scripting language can access the things python can. This is the case with many programs, python bindings but nada for php). please feel free to point me to the php equivilants of pyhook, pycuda, scipy, numpy and some examples of widely used programs with php bindings. For the sophisticated hacker, most languages can be tweaked to solve almost any problem. I am sure that is true. Though, I feel many for many tasks php would require quite a bit more tweaking than python, with much less community support behind it (I mean, google comes up with fewer helpful links to the problems I sited above). Maybe Php can accomplish many things by calling external programs. Is that the case? and then are you limited to whatever commandline options the external program has? My impression, based on very little experience with php, is that if you asked in a forum about using php for advanced scientific computing, or writing music generation/sequencing software, knowledgeable folks would first ask: are you sure you want to do this in php? how about java or python? That said, php may be superior for generating websites from databases. That is why it is difficult to find help through google about php, because all the searches turn up websites generated by php, not written about it. I'll be more careful about my praising of python over other scripting languages in the future. Thanks, Elliot
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the revised edition for 1.0) The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ Did you try those already? On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
I'd start here: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ There are some tutorials in there as well. -Mike On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:19, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... For resources, learn django in Google shows a bunch of promising hints. Methodology-wise: Start with a fairly concrete, well-defined problem. Have a product in mind before you start. Work hard with the tool you choose to make your product. Don't stress about whether you've chosen the best tools (you haven't) or whether you're doing it perfectly (you aren't). Make the thing. You can spend months looking over example code and tutorials and blog posts and not learn nearly as much as you would attacking the problem. Plus, you've gotten closer to solving the problem as you've learned. Or, DHH says it a bit better: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2582-how-do-i-learn-to-program Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step? Best, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the revised edition for 1.0) The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ Did you try those already? On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
Agreed on the docs at the website. If you can't figure something out from those, dig into the source. Happy hacking! On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: I'd start here: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ There are some tutorials in there as well. -Mike On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:19, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
If you already know PHP you might want to check out Symfony or another PHP framework to get the hang of web frameworks, then move onto other languages from there. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal jti...@citytech.cuny.edu wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step? Best, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the revised edition for 1.0) The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ Did you try those already? On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
Django is a web framework; Python is the language. If you don't know the difference, I'd suggest sticking with PHP and going with one of the frameworks available to you there. On 2010-10-25, at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step? Best, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the revised edition for 1.0) The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ Did you try those already? On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
I know the difference. Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 4:40 PM Django is a web framework; Python is the language. If you don't know the difference, I'd suggest sticking with PHP and going with one of the frameworks available to you there. On 2010-10-25, at 4:25 PM, Junior Tidal wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I haven't actively looked for resources since I'm busy doing collection development. However, I came across an advertisement for a Django book and figured it would be a useful language to learn. I already know php, so it seems logical that django is the next step? Best, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu Andrew Hankinson andrew.hankin...@gmail.com 10/25/2010 10:23 AM There's the Django Book: http://www.djangobook.com/ (Make sure you choose the revised edition for 1.0) The Django docs, with some intro tutorials: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/ Did you try those already? On 2010-10-25, at 10:19 AM, Junior Tidal wrote: Hello Code4Lib, Does anyone have any recommendations for learning Django? Books, websites, video tutorials, etc. ... thanks, Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street Brooklyn, NY 11210 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Django
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Gabriel Farrell gsf...@gmail.com wrote: If you already know PHP you might want to check out Symfony or another PHP framework to get the hang of web frameworks, then move onto other languages from there. I've been using Django for a couple of years now, and have been tasked to introduce Django to a team in my current employer. Two of the developers here, both experienced in PHP but just learning Python, told me that they've found Django much simpler and easier to learn than Symfony. Besides the original Django Book, my colleagues have also enjoyed Python Web Development with Django, which includes half a dozen simple and diverse example applications. http://www.amazon.com/Python-Development-Django-Jeff-Forcier/dp/0132356139 -- Luciano Ramalho programador repentista || stand-up programmer Twitter: @luciano
