Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Hi, On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Galen Charlton wrote: > - organizing itself and setting some deadlines The first meeting will take place tomorrow (1 July) at noon EDT; the agenda (which is entirely concerned with bootstrapping the IG) and a link to the Google Hangout

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Just want to thank Galen and Coral for setting this up and the IG (whoever gets involved and contributes) for their interest and efforts in moving this discussion forward. On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Galen Charlton wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Coral

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > I'm rather surprised that nobody has suggested contacting: > - the American Library Association (particularly the LITA division) > I have not made the offer because I think c4l should approach LITA and not

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I could be a resource for this conversation. I have been slow to jump into this conversation, as I have been involved in many past discussions on this topic, to no end. I was deeply involved in the organizing of DrupalCons and the formation and governance of the Drupal Association. I don’t

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I have some experience being on the fiscal agent side of an MOU arrangement and hammering those out, and would like to help. Beatrice Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Eric Lease Morgan wrote: > >> On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:01 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:01 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: > Now, there kind of is. By my count, we have 4 volunteers. Chad, Tom, Galen, > and me. Anyone else? Coral, please sign me up. I’d like to learn more. —Eric Lease Morgan

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On 6/14/16 12:43 PM, Kyle Banerjee wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: I'm rather surprised that nobody has suggested contacting: - the American Library Association (particularly the LITA division) - the Internet Archive Or... the Tides

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > I'm rather surprised that nobody has suggested contacting: > - the American Library Association (particularly the LITA division) > - the Internet Archive > > Or... the Tides Foundation (tides.org in San

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

age- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Ross Singer > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:51 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? > > I kind of agree with Shaun's point: why on eart

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I'm rather surprised that nobody has suggested contacting: - the American Library Association (particularly the LITA division) - the Internet Archive Or... the Tides Foundation (tides.org in San Francisco) has been known to act as fiscal agent and "umbrella" for small non-profit

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

See again my post from 6/8 on this idea. Kari Smith -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ross Singer Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:51 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? I kind of agree

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I kind of agree with Shaun's point: why on earth would some organization want to assume this? In the interest of not limiting ourselves to one solution to this problem, I'll throw another possibility that I haven't seen raised (and definitely has downsides, but they all do): what if we to set

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

++ interesting recording of their talk on youtube, including a (brief) one on 501c3 vs. 501c6 vs. no profit corp entity Carol Carol Bean beanwo...@gmail.com On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 5:55 AM, BWS Johnson wrote: > Salvete! > > Anyone thinking about this might want

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Salvete! Anyone thinking about this might want to plug in 0wn the Con + Shmoocon into the Google Machine.[TM] If anything, that's a larger Conference. They can be very granular with technology needs. Just don't copy their fanboy atmosphere, please. Cheers, Brooke

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

> Does anyone else want to self-nominate, to join a group to investigate > making Code4Lib fiscally sustainable? Does someone want to *organize* that > group? (Put the group on some communications medium, make deadlines, keep > people on task -- stuff like that.) To be clear: nobody is proposing

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

If we wait to start talking about it until conference 2017, that means conference committee 2018 will have to find its own temporary fiscal agent. Or 2018 could just not happen at all, I guess. Even if we do all the pre-work and just wait to make the decision at the conference, that doesn't leave

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

al Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward M. Corrado Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 11:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? Generally speaking, what the fiduciary agent normally would get rewarded

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

gent, and wouldn't their role > therefore have to be, to some degree, permanent? > > Sorry, but just wondering... > > Laura > > -----Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Salazar, Christina > Sent: Frida

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Salazar, Christina > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 5:26 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? > > Yes I think it's time to do so and I also felt that there was

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

, but just wondering... Laura -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Salazar, Christina Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 5:26 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? Yes I think it's time to d

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Hello, There needs to be an organization with the people who are apart of Code4lib that does the same things and more. Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS LFCA CIO Casanova Information Services 850 Brook Forest Ave Unit E Shorewood, Illinois (779) 205-3105 http://casanovainfo.com

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

r > Systems Librarian > John Spoor Broome Library > California State University, Channel Islands > 805/437-3198 > > > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of > Brian Rogers > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:38 P

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

5/437-3198 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Rogers Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:38 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? Never hurts to have a working group for 2018 and beyond.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Never hurts to have a working group for 2018 and beyond.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I think it's quite likely that we will have at least one proposal for 2017 -- perhaps more. I don't think we need to worry about 2017. Roy On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Brian Rogers wrote: > Agreed on the wording. Because, while at this point I'm guessing we'll be > able

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Agreed on the wording. Because, while at this point I'm guessing we'll be able to find a physical home for 2017... if per chance that doesn't happen... the rollover money from last year's conference presumably has to go somewhere, in the interim.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Islands 805/437-3198 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Rogers Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:20 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? Since the Chattanooga Planning Committee inadvertently

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Since the Chattanooga Planning Committee inadvertently prompted this newest round of conversations around some degree of formalization, would it be useful if we threw together a follow-up survey for the community, to test the waters around support (or lack there of) for the notion of

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

Thank you, Coral and Tom. I'd also like us to: 1. stop characterizing regional meetings as DIY, as if we have outsourced the organizing of the national meeting somehow without doing it ourselves. Many people worked hard to put the 2016 meeting (and all the others) on, and they don't deserve to

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

___ From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU> on behalf of Tom Johnson <johnson.tom+code4...@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 08:38 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy] Eric, I appreciate that you're trying to make a call to act

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

Eric, I appreciate that you're trying to make a call to action, but this latest email is stunningly condescending. As I'm sure you must know, people in this community do hold regional meetings. These meetings take substantial effort to arrange. The wiki is full of documentation, advice, and

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: > One note about what we're discussing: when we talk about just doing the > regional events (and I mean beyond 2017, which will be a special case if a > host city can't step in), we need to realize that we have a lot

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

One note about what we're discussing: when we talk about just doing the regional events (and I mean beyond 2017, which will be a special case if a host city can't step in), we need to realize that we have a lot of members who aren't in a Code4Lib region. You might think I'm talking about Alaska,

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Eric Lease Morgan wrote: > > Hosting a local/regional meeting is not difficult and relatively > inexpensive. While I find the intent to make code4lib more "distributed" through localized meetings, I find this statement incredibly belittling and

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

I believe the distillation of Code4Lib’s value into enabling “communication and sharing” is accurate, but I think this should be further focused. Showcasing what we’ve done and how we’ve done it is wonderful, but only goes so far since many of our open source solutions still require a loads of

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

at mit.edu http://libraries.mit.edu/archives/ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric Hellman Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 2:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy] Since we're

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

Eric, Thanks for tossing these ideas out there. A number of these ideas had not occurred to me, even though I've been wanting to see more local events. What you and Kyle are saying is resounding far more than I would have initially thought. I think in general one of the great things with

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

Since we're brainstorming... In addition to regional meetings, how about having some smaller, national or even international thematic Code4Lib meetings. For example, I see an aching need for a "Code4Lib:Privacy". Eric Hellman President, Free Ebook Foundation Founder, Unglue.it

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? [diy]

On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:55 AM, Kyle Banerjee wrote: > My recollection is that in the bad 'ol days, c4l was much more about sharing > ideas to solve practical problems… Nowadays, the conference (which has become > like other library conferences) has become an end in

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Salazar, Christina < christina.sala...@csuci.edu> wrote: > Having gone to C4L in 2007 in Athens, when it was I think 150 people (ha! > Let's be honest: 145 men and 5 women) and then again in 2015 in Portland > and 2014 in Raleigh, the Code 4 Lib that once was is no

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I’ve been wondering if Code4Lib could consider applying for membership + fiscal sponsorship through Fractured Atlas, which is a non-profit that provides fiscal sponsorship for non-commercial arts (/cultural sector?) organizations that do not have 501 c 3 status. Here’s their page about fiscal

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Having been through something like this in the past that went very badly, a small bit of advice: If the impetus for forming a company is protection from liability for the Annual Conference, form it solely for that purpose. Leaving it open-ended will bring in everyone's ideas. Many of them will

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Terry Reese Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:37 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? >> Fiscal agents are ultimately responsible for the contracts they are >> going to be signing

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Thanks for the information Peter (and best of luck at Index Data). Edward On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Peter Murray wrote: > I did look at this while I was at LYRASIS a few years ago. (I'm now at > Cherry Hill -- soon to be at Index Data -- http://dltj.org/p27236 ). At >

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

ore about what you expect "the emotional and bureaucratic >> > expense" to be? >> > >> > -Mike >> > >> > ________ >> > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU> on behalf of Eric >>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

+1 Terry Shirley On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Terry Reese wrote: > >> Fiscal agents are ultimately responsible for the contracts they are > >> going to be signing. In the case of this conference, that is easily > well over $200K. > > I think that this is the first

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I did look at this while I was at LYRASIS a few years ago. (I'm now at Cherry Hill -- soon to be at Index Data -- http://dltj.org/p27236 ). At the time they had an "association management" division that did this sort of thing. They disbanded that division before I left, but they are under

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Fwiw over here at the Metropolitan New York Library Council we might be able to help from an organizational perspective. I'd certainly be open to the idea. Not sure exactly what it means though. Nate On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: > I think this

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

>> Fiscal agents are ultimately responsible for the contracts they are >> going to be signing. In the case of this conference, that is easily well >> over $200K. I think that this is the first pertinent question for the community to decide. The conference wasn't always this big, this

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

V.ND.EDU> on behalf of Eric > > Lease Morgan <emor...@nd.edu> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 13:49 > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? > > > > > I'm also interested in investigating how to forma

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:09 PM, Eric Lease Morgan <emor...@nd.edu> wrote: > On Jun 7, 2016, at 10:53 PM, Mike Giarlo <mjgia...@stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > Can you say more about

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I'm pretty new to C4L, mostly just an evesdropper. Sounds though what the group is looking for is to form a lightweight as possible NGO / Non Profit style entity that can operate as an organization independent of its constituent parts for purposes of liability. A business law expert, more

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:09 PM, Eric Lease Morgan wrote: > On Jun 7, 2016, at 10:53 PM, Mike Giarlo wrote: > > > > > Can you say more about what you expect "the emotional and bureaucratic > expense" to be? > > Bureaucratic and emotional expenses include

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Eric, I agree that I wouldn't want to have an organization that existed to govern all things Code4lib - but I don't think that's what's on the table here. What I'm hearing is a call for a persistent entity that can do things like sign contracts and hold funds from year to year, pursuant to

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I would take issue with the idea that "an existing library non-profit might be able to do this without that much overhead." I think that we, as a community, severely underestimate the amount of work it takes to coordinate a conference like ours. Fiscal agents are ultimately responsible for the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

> The inside will make decisions and the outside won’t understand and feel left out. This happens in all groups at a certain size, regardless of their structure or organizational mechanism. > Somebody will always come forward. It will just happen. That's a faith I wish I shared. The liability

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

On Jun 7, 2016, at 10:53 PM, Mike Giarlo wrote: >>> I'm also interested in investigating how to formalize Code4Lib as an >>> entity, for all of the reasons listed earlier in the thread… >> >> -1 because I don’t think the benefits will outweigh the emotional and >>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

expense" to be? >> >> -Mike >> >> >> From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU> on behalf of Eric >> Lease Morgan <emor...@nd.edu> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 13:49 >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

hat you expect "the emotional and bureaucratic >> expense" to be? >> >> -Mike >> >> >> From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU> on behalf of Eric >> Lease Morgan <emor...@nd.edu> >> Sent: Tuesday, J

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

__ > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU> on behalf of Eric > Lease Morgan <emor...@nd.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 13:49 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? > > > I'm also interested in investigatin

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? I don't think there is any Hydra legal entity (hence the need for a financial host), and the MOU is signed on behalf of the leadership committee. So I think it boils down to being organized enough for the financial host to be c

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

016 13:49 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib? > I'm also interested in investigating how to formalize Code4Lib as an > entity, for all of the reasons listed earlier in the thread… -1 because I don’t think the benefits will outweigh the emotional and bureaucra

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

> I'm also interested in investigating how to formalize Code4Lib as an > entity, for all of the reasons listed earlier in the thread… -1 because I don’t think the benefits will outweigh the emotional and bureaucratic expense. We already have enough rules. — ELM

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

We are establishing a relationship with the DLF for email purposes. Might they be willing to be our organization? Ralph -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Esmé Cowles Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 3:41 PM To:

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

At one point Lyrasis offered to do this when Peter Murray was there. I don't remeber to what degree this was investigated but at the time the community generally wasn't in favor. I have no idea if Lyrasis would be interested (and Peter is now elsewhere, I believe) but it might be somethign to look

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I don't think there is any Hydra legal entity (hence the need for a financial host), and the MOU is signed on behalf of the leadership committee. So I think it boils down to being organized enough for the financial host to be comfortable entering into an agreement with them. I can ask the

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

This sounds like an intriguing option. What is "Hydra" that it is able to enter into an MOU - is the steering group an incorporated entity? On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Esmé Cowles wrote: > I remember another option being brought up: picking an official >

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

Thanks Carol! And +1. Apart from any concern for the the relative benefits or pitfalls of any kind of *-ocracy, it seems abundantly clear that in order to continue to hold a large scale national conference each year we need someone to "do" a stable fiscal agent for that purpose. It would be wise

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

I remember another option being brought up: picking an official organizational home for C4L that would handle being the financial host for the conference, and possibly other things (conference carryover, scholarship fundraising, holding intellectual property, etc.). An existing library