Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-14 Thread Mike Taylor
Alexander Johannesen writes: Anyway, I'm suspecting I don't see what the problem seems to be. To create the best identifier for things seems a bit of a strange notion to me, but is this based on that there is only (or rather, that you're trying to create) one identifier for any one thing?

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-14 Thread Rob Sanderson
RDF is fine with one 'thing' having multiple identifiers, it just hands the problem up a level to the application to deal with. For example, the owl:sameAs predicate is used to express that the subject and object are the same 'thing'. Then the application can infer that if a owl:sameAs b, and a

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-14 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 17:35, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote: For example, the owl:sameAs predicate is used to express that the subject and object are the same 'thing'.  Then the application can infer that if a owl:sameAs b, and a x y, then b x y. Yes, but there's a snag; as RDF

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-14 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 17:45, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote: I'll quote Mike (and most common approaches to the problem):        Don't Do That Then. :) Oh, for sure. :) But these are very subtle things that are hard to understand, and certainly the long-term implications, so

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-14 Thread Eric Lease Morgan
[ /me is creating an email filter/rule against the Code4Lib mailing list to automatically delete messages whose subject lines contain One Data Format Identifier because he has acquired carpal tunnel syndrome after pressing the delete key so often. ] -- Earache Least Moron

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-12 Thread Jakob Voss
Ross Singer wrote: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? formats xmlns=http://unapi.info/; format name=foaf uri=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1// /formats I generally agree with this, but what about formats that aren't XML or RDF based? How do I also say that you can grab my text/x-vcard? Or my

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-12 Thread Ross Singer
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Jakob Voss jakob.v...@gbv.de wrote: Ross Singer wrote: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? formats xmlns=http://unapi.info/;  format name=foaf uri=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1// /formats I generally agree with this, but what about formats that aren't XML or RDF

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-12 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Ross Singer wrote: My point is that there's a step before that, possibly, where the theory behind unAPI, Jangle, whatever, is tested to even see if it's going in the right direction before writing it up formally as an RFC. I don't think the lack of adoption of unAPI has anything to do with the

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Jakob Voss
Hi, I summarized my thoughts about identifiers for data formats in a blog posting: http://jakoblog.de/2009/05/10/who-identifies-the-identifiers/ In short it’s not a technology issue but a commitment issue and the problem of identifying the right identifiers for data formats can be reduced

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Rob Sanderson
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 11:31 +0100, Jakob Voss wrote A format should be described with a schema (XML Schema, OWL etc.) or at least a standard. Mostly this schema already has a namespace or similar identifier that can be used for the whole format. This is unfortunately not the case. For

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 16:04, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote: * One namespace is used to define two _totally_ separate sets of elements.  There's no reason why this can't be done. As opposed to all the reasons for not doing it. :) This is crap design of a higher magnitude, and the

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Rob Sanderson
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 12:02 +0100, Alexander Johannesen wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 16:04, Rob Sanderson azar...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote: * One namespace is used to define two _totally_ separate sets of elements. There's no reason why this can't be done. As opposed to all the reasons for

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Alexander Johannesen wrote: Yeah, don't use MODS in general; it's a hack. It's even crazier still that many versions have the same namespace. What were they thinking?! Um, MODS is awfully useful for a bunch of reasons. I'm not going to stop using it because they've used namespaces in a

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Ross Singer
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Jakob Voss jakob.v...@gbv.de wrote: 2) require some laborious and lengthy submission and review process to just say hey, here's my FOAF available via UnAPI The identifier for FOAF is http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/. Forget about identifiers that are not URIs.

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-11 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 19:34, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: In the real world, we use things when they solve the problem in front of us in as easy a way as possible And somehow you're suggesting that I don't live in the real-world? :) Good try, but as far as I've experienced,

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-08 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
I don't understand from your description how Topic Maps solve the identifying multiple versions of a standard problem. Which was the original question, right? Or have I gotten confused? I didn't think the original question was even about topic vocabularies, but about how to best provide an

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-08 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 00:32, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: I don't understand from your description how Topic Maps solve the identifying multiple versions of a standard problem. It's the mechanism of having multiple identifiers for Topics, so, in pseudo ; Topic MARC21 psi

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-07 Thread Alexander Johannesen
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 18:44, Mike Taylor m...@indexdata.com wrote: Can't you just tell us? Sorry, but surely you must be tired of me banging on this gong by now? It's not that I don't want to seem helpful, but I've been writing a bit on this here already and don't want to be marked as spam for

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-06 Thread Mike Taylor
Alexander Johannesen writes: With Topic Maps it's been solved years and years ago, and it's the part of it that the RDF world didn't think of until recently (and applied their kludges). I'm not going to bang my gong on this, just urge you to read up on PSIs. Can't you just tell us? _/|_

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-03 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Singer [rossfsin...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:16 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All I agree that most software probably won't do it. But the data will be there and free and relatively easy to integrate

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-03 Thread Alexander Johannesen
With Topic Maps it's been solved years and years ago, and it's the part of it that the RDF world didn't think of until recently (and applied their kludges). I'm not going to bang my gong on this, just urge you to read up on PSIs. Alex --

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-02 Thread Riley, Jenn
01, 2009 9:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All I agree that most software probably won't do it. But the data will be there and free and relatively easy to integrate if one wanted to. In a lot ways, Jonathan

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Mike Taylor
Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress writes: Thanks, Ross. For SRU, this is an opportune time to reconcile these differences. Opportune, because we are approaching standardization of SRU/CQL within OASIS, and there will be a number of areas that need to change. Agreed. Looking at the

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Mike Taylor
Jonathan Rochkind writes: Crosswalk is exactly the wrong answer for this. Two very small overlapping communities of most library developers can surely agree on using the same identifiers, and then we make things easier for US. We don't need to solve the entire universe of problems. Solve

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Peter Noerr
solutions, and so on.) Peter -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Taylor Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 02:36 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All Jonathan

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Ross Singer
, the unhelpfulness of compromises for joint solutions, and so on.) Peter -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Taylor Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 02:36 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Peter Noerr
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All Jonathan Rochkind writes:   Crosswalk is exactly the wrong answer for this. Two very small   overlapping communities of most library developers can surely agree   on using the same identifiers

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
: Friday, May 01, 2009 13:40 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All Ideally, though, if we have some buy in and extend this outside our communities, future identifiers *should* have fewer variations, since

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Mike Taylor
13:40 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All Ideally, though, if we have some buy in and extend this outside our communities, future identifiers *should* have fewer variations, since people can find

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-05-01 Thread Ross Singer
Message-   From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of   Ross Singer   Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 13:40   To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU   Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule   Them All     Ideally, though, if we

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-04-30 Thread Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress
Thanks, Ross. For SRU, this is an opportune time to reconcile these differences. Opportune, because we are approaching standardization of SRU/CQL within OASIS, and there will be a number of areas that need to change. Some observations. 1. the 'ofi' namespace of 'info' has the advantage that

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-04-30 Thread Peter Noerr
Some further observations. So far this threadling has mentioned only trying to unify two different sets of identifiers. However there are a much larger number of them out there (and even larger numbers of schemas and other

Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All

2009-04-30 Thread Jonathan Rochkind
Noerr [pno...@museglobal.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:37 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] One Data Format Identifier (and Registry) to Rule Them All Some further observations. So far this threadling has mentioned only trying to unify two different sets