Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On May 19, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Ken Irwin wrote: With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? IMDB has cover art for films, but I haven't looked to see if they provide an API to get to them /a la/ Google Books. Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFIMbUK4+t4qSfPIHIRAkWCAJsEmCwDdOUbxpDY1oH0rc0432sNHwCfegC+ V+B6IFaBbNsu3q5bpFYL/BQ= =S3LY -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Haven't tried any of this... http://www.trynt.com/trynt-movie-imdb-api/ James M. Gilbert Systems Librarian Whitehall Township Public Library 3700 Mechanicsville Road Whitehall, PA 18052 610-432-4339 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://whitehall.lib.pa.us -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Irwin Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:39 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Peter Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMDB has cover art for films, but I haven't looked to see if they provide an API to get to them /a la/ Google Books. I don't think IMDB is an option... All pictures and videos found on our site (including movie stills, headshots, photo galleries and trailers) are licensed to IMDb only and we are not permitted to sublicense them onwards or grant permission for other to use them, sorry. From: http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?usephotos Keith
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:36:18PM -0400, Ken Irwin wrote: I suppose I'm more concerned with copyright than harvesting -- I can have a minion harvest the images by hand if they're legal to use. Is that even an issue? I would've thought you'd be covered under the Arriba Soft ruling: http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr0006.html --peter keane Ken Peter Murray wrote: IMDB has cover art for films, but I haven't looked to see if they provide an API to get to them /a la/ Google Books. Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
On Mon, 19 May 2008, Gavin Spomer wrote: Interesting thread topic. There's a donationware application for Macs called Fennel DVDManager (http://dvdmanager.free.fr/) that will download cover artwork from IMDB and Amazon. Wonder if they're doing it legally? You could also sniff the traffic to see how Delicious Library gets their covers: http://www.delicious-monster.com/ -Joe
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:39:06AM -0400, Ken Irwin wrote: With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? I've had some success with UPCs and worldcat.org for the Drexel Libraries Video Search[1]. A lot of our records lack an 024, though, so I fall back to ISBNs on Amazon, but the hit rate isn't as good there. For a collection the size of our video collection, we've considered just scanning them ourselves. Neither IMDB nor Netflix have public APIs yet. Gabriel [1] http://www.library.drexel.edu/video/
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
An application called i-Covers polls this list: http://www.i-covers.net/en_bases.htm for covers/posters. -Ross. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Gabriel Sean Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:39:06AM -0400, Ken Irwin wrote: With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? I've had some success with UPCs and worldcat.org for the Drexel Libraries Video Search[1]. A lot of our records lack an 024, though, so I fall back to ISBNs on Amazon, but the hit rate isn't as good there. For a collection the size of our video collection, we've considered just scanning them ourselves. Neither IMDB nor Netflix have public APIs yet. Gabriel [1] http://www.library.drexel.edu/video/
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Hi All- Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947 Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947 I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not copyrightable, but rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't read it closely, but if you look at the case and some of the description it's talking about the thumbnail images created by Google itself to represent another source. The key words here are highly transformative. Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived work for a non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright. Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same. After all, you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying it. How do you what you are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have read in these documents. Jon Gorman Original message Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Hi All- Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images, is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless there is clear and obvious proof otherwise. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:50:35PM -0500, Jonathan Gorman wrote: Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947 I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not copyrightable, but rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't read it closely, but if you look at the case and some of the description it's talking about the thumbnail images created by Google itself to represent another source. The key words here are highly transformative. Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived work for a non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright. Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same. After all, you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying it. How do you what you are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have read in these documents. Jon Gorman Original message Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Hi All- Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Syndetics/Bowker makes money in selling media cover image thumbnails. Does Bowker has a license from the publishers to do that? I think so, I think the publisher's make some money off it. Therefore there is some commercial value in cover images, and effect on the commercial value of those copyrighted cover images to give away thumbnails for free. Therefore, there is some commercial value to the copyright holders in cover images, which might mean that a judge would decide different in a case about cover images. Or might not. Commercial impact/value is just ONE of the four criteria of fair use in the US. There is seldom any black and white in copyright in the 21st century. Jonathan Peter Keane wrote: Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images, is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless there is clear and obvious proof otherwise. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:50:35PM -0500, Jonathan Gorman wrote: Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947 I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not copyrightable, but rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't read it closely, but if you look at the case and some of the description it's talking about the thumbnail images created by Google itself to represent another source. The key words here are highly transformative. Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived work for a non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright. Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same. After all, you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying it. How do you what you are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have read in these documents. Jon Gorman Original message Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Hi All- Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
But I would agree that it is our duty as libraries to be pushing the boundaries of these grey areas in a world where much of copyright _is_ currently a gray area, not automatically taking the most expansive perspective with regard to copyright holders rights, out of fear. Not just society, but I think we have a special duty as libraries whose mission involves expanding access to information. [That is, all public and most academic libraries; a private or corprate library may not share this mission and this duty.]. I wish our administrators agreed. Jonathan Peter Keane wrote: Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images, is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless there is clear and obvious proof otherwise. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:50:35PM -0500, Jonathan Gorman wrote: Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947 I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not copyrightable, but rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't read it closely, but if you look at the case and some of the description it's talking about the thumbnail images created by Google itself to represent another source. The key words here are highly transformative. Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived work for a non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright. Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same. After all, you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying it. How do you what you are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have read in these documents. Jon Gorman Original message Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Hi All- Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images, is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. I'm not trying to argue against the heart of your argument, just perhaps suggesting that we should be careful about terminology. Fair use of something is not the same as saying the source is not copyrightable. It's an important distinction to keep. It is, after all, how licenses are enforced. It's fair use for me to cite a passage. I may even be able to reproduce the whole work under the conditions of a license. This does not immediately propagate downstream to those who might copy my work. It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless there is clear and obvious proof otherwise. I agree that many have let fear blind themselves or make themselves hesitate from providing certain services. But at the same time there still is a lot that is undefined or tenuous. It doesn't help to cite material that talks about creating thumbnails as fair use and then take another step and claim thumbnails are not copyrightable. If you're going to make that next step, it would be nice to see material supporting it. I agree we have a responsibility to our users and I do feel that universities and other academic organizations should be fighting even on legal fronts to protect reasonable use (such as using thumbnails and automatically derived metadata). However, as reasonable individuals we also do have to evaluate the best ways to do this and likelihood of legal ramifications and their costs. If you believe in this there are plenty of ways as well as possible civil disobedience. You can lobby congress and the copyright office to establish laws and policies to protect this use. Certainly, risking an institution's financial and legal status this day and age should be carefully considered. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. At what point does something become a thumbnail? 50%? 75%? 100% but with poor resolution? If it's cropped? Missing colors? I would also point out there are many who include the work itself as metadata, in which case it most certainly falls under copyright. Certain visualizations may also fall into a gray area, regardless if the source is text or an image. The cases seem to to me to point to two important poitns. First, Google is not responsible when it creates fair use thumbnails of someone else who has already infringed. The infringement only applies to the original person who copied the image. I'm not sure how this compares to other case law at this point. I'm also not sure how it would deal with a service that refused to take down the derived thumbnail if the original image is illegal or violating copyright. Second, if someone used Google's service to profit on their own end (took the images and then sold them) the judge might regard that as not fair use. But again, I'm not a lawyer. So I'm going to stop thinking about this particular issue right now. Jon Gorman
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
I'm puzzling through all of this too. Could it be the case that the acquisition of the images would be problematic (the files are owned or licensed by other companies) but that the use of the images is ok? That would be a particularly annoying snarl: if you've got it, you can use it, but you can't get it... Ken Peter Keane wrote: Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images, is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless there is clear and obvious proof otherwise. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. --peter keane
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
One could embed the actual cataloging record data in the thumbnails using steganography... On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. --peter keane
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 05:29:38PM -0400, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
But I would agree that it is our duty as libraries to be pushing the
boundaries of these grey areas in a world where much of copyright _is_
currently a gray area, not automatically taking the most expansive
perspective with regard to copyright holders rights, out of fear. Not
just society, but I think we have a special duty as libraries whose
mission involves expanding access to information. [That is, all public
and most academic libraries; a private or corprate library may not share
this mission and this duty.].
I would say it's something of a moral obligation (in the academic/public
side) to go ahead and use the thumbnails ('cause it's the right
thing to do AND models good information practices), in the face of
fear/uncertainty/doubt.
I wonder what the effect of this very thread will be on folks wondering
it they should or shouldn't use thumbnails? Honestly, folks, this is our
profession. (Where's Larry Lessig when you need him... ;-).
cheers-
peter keane
I wish our administrators agreed.
Jonathan
Peter Keane wrote:
Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the
Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images,
is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there
is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
copyrighted work.
It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA
action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright
issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate
our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information
not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information
getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that
information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless
there is clear and obvious proof otherwise.
Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata,
and you cannot copyright metadata.
--peter keane
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:50:35PM -0500, Jonathan Gorman wrote:
Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able:
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947
I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not
copyrightable, but rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't
read it closely, but if you look at the case and some of the description
it's talking about the thumbnail images created by Google itself to
represent another source. The key words here are highly transformative.
Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived work for a
non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way
traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright.
Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same.
After all, you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying
it. How do you what you are then printing/publishing counts as
transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is
not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For
example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings
inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on
copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright.
Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I
have read in these documents.
Jon Gorman
Original message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500
From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Hi All-
Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I
doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty
as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright
issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest
possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false
and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement.
--peter keane
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote:
I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but
you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your
url would look something like this:
http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images
Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can
choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API
service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN
and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small,
medium (default) and large images are available by adding s
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
Well, I think that if you think it's completely clear and obvious that
it IS legal to use thumbnails without permission from the copyright
holder, OR if you think it's completely clear and obvious that it's
NOTin either case you are probably mistaken. Copyright in the 21st
century is seldom completely clear and obvious.
But yeah, in my idea world, libraries would invest in some legal advice
to figure out the most legally defensible way to do it, and band
together to do it.
Jonathan
Peter Keane wrote:
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 05:29:38PM -0400, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
But I would agree that it is our duty as libraries to be pushing the
boundaries of these grey areas in a world where much of copyright _is_
currently a gray area, not automatically taking the most expansive
perspective with regard to copyright holders rights, out of fear. Not
just society, but I think we have a special duty as libraries whose
mission involves expanding access to information. [That is, all public
and most academic libraries; a private or corprate library may not share
this mission and this duty.].
I would say it's something of a moral obligation (in the academic/public
side) to go ahead and use the thumbnails ('cause it's the right
thing to do AND models good information practices), in the face of
fear/uncertainty/doubt.
I wonder what the effect of this very thread will be on folks wondering
it they should or shouldn't use thumbnails? Honestly, folks, this is our
profession. (Where's Larry Lessig when you need him... ;-).
cheers-
peter keane
I wish our administrators agreed.
Jonathan
Peter Keane wrote:
Actually, this is one of a number of links out there (esp. regarding the
Arriba Soft case) suggesting that fair use, regarding thumbnail images,
is quite often the applicable standard, the key (often) being that there
is no Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
copyrighted work.
It's just depressing to me that the society, in the shadow of DCMA, RIAA
action, etc. has essentially cowered in the face of these copyright
issues, and I would go so far as to say the we librarians often abrogate
our duty. I mean it is our job to *create* access to information
not *prevent* it. Right? Geez, nothing like the free flow of information
getting privatized. My aim is just to promote the idea of assuming that
information wants to be free and proceed under that assumption unless
there is clear and obvious proof otherwise.
Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata,
and you cannot copyright metadata.
--peter keane
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:50:35PM -0500, Jonathan Gorman wrote:
Another link about thumbnail images not being copyright-able:
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/947
I don't think this particular case is saying thumbnail images are not copyrightable, but
rather that the creation of them is fair use. I haven't read it closely, but if you look
at the case and some of the description it's talking about the thumbnail images created
by Google itself to represent another source. The key words here are highly
transformative. Google is transforming an existing work and creating a derived
work for a non-competitive purpose (as the judge ruled). Much in the similar way
traditionally creating indexes and the like are protected by copyright.
Just copying another source's thumbnail does not seem to be quite the same. After all,
you are then not doing anything to the thumbnail, just copying it. How do you what you
are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new
work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who
originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a
series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be
infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright.
Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have
read in these documents.
Jon Gorman
Original message
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500
From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Hi All-
Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I
doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty
as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright
issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest
possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false
and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement.
--peter keane
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote:
I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but
you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your
url would look something like this:
http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
are then printing/publishing counts as transformative work or that the new work derived from the existing one is not in itself copyrighted to the person who originally transformed it? For example, were I to compose a play and then you made a series of paintings inspired by it, it's different enough I would probably not be infringing on copyright. That doesn't mean my paintings are now not under copyright. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem a leap to make off of what I have read in these documents. Jon Gorman Original message Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:49 -0500 From: Peter Keane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images? To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Hi All- Perhaps for some reason these precedents do not apply here (although I doubt it) -- I am no lawyer. But I DO think that it is our responsibilty as librarians and educators to *not* shy away from cases where copyright issues are not clear and obvious. It is our job to provide the highest possible service to our users, not to be timid in the face of false and/or faulty claims about copyright infingement. --peter keane On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 03:00:08PM -0500, Charles Ledvina wrote: I know my suggestion is probably filled with copyright infringements but you could use your Amazon API to get links to all of their images. Your url would look something like this: http://webservices.amazon.com/onca/xml?Service=AWSECommerceServiceSubscriptionId=[your_api_code]Operation=ItemSearchSearchIndex=BlendedKeywords=[upc_code]ResponseGroup=Images Using the 024 will usually generate a unique result and then you can choose from a variety of image sizes. I have a kind of API of an API service running at chopac.org as an example. Simply enter a UPC or ISBN and you get back an xml file with cover link and product link. Small, medium (default) and large images are available by adding s, m or l at the end of the UPC. Examples: Simspons Movie-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271 Simpsons Movie (small image)-- http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/upc2image.pl?024543484271s The product link is supplied to somewhat fulfill Amazon's requirements to link to their items. Later, Charles Ledvina infosoup.org chopac.org Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, With some limitations, the Google Books API allows folks to access book covers for free. (How's that working out? Anyone having luck with it?) -- what about movie/DVD/VHS covers? Are there any free sources for those images? I'd like to work up a virtual-browsing interface for our library's pretty small collection of feature films, and I'd love to include covers. Any ideas on how I might get them? Anyone else doing this? Thanks Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] free movie cover images?
All, This has been an interesting discussion and frankly it is not uncommon in my experience for these kinds of questions to arise. Not sure I have anything to add in terms of answers, but see my response below to one part of Peter Keane's recent message. Looked at another way: a thumbnail is just a bit of visual metadata, and you cannot copyright metadata. Well, it's been tried before. In the mid-80s there was a big hullabaloo over what was seen or interpreted as OCLC copyrighting all MARC records in its WorldCat database. See the following informative website that goes into the context and history of the incident: Guidelines for the Use and Transfer of OCLC-Derived Records [OCLC] http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/ Steve
