Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Dan Staley]

I've bought a Think Outside (also known as iGo?) bluetooth keyboard like
this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823203005R
They are a bit cheaper on ebay, but anyway, it will be a good way to
have an external controller (as well as a full keyboard for
programming!)

Also, I just finished heading up a project with several of my classmates
at www.libwiiact.org that interfaces with the wiimote (actually to
implement head tracking) and runs on linux...I'd be interested in
working on some games combining the wiimote and OM.

-Dan Staley

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 09:56 -0400, Mo Abrahams wrote:
> Maybe someone could make a nice gamepad accessory that just snaps onto
> the bottom of the phone? With regards to the wiimote, or any other
> controller for that matter, I can't visualise someone holding the screen
> (phone) in one hand, and the controller in the other.
> 
> On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 14:45 +0100, Ivo Anjo wrote:
> > I myself was planning on (ab)using the usb host feature to connect a
> > real gamepad to the openmoko.
> > No more problems with lack of keys to use on the game :)
> >
> > Ivo
> >
> > P.s.: Also, we have bluetooth, so ps3 remote and wiimote should also be 
> > usable.
> >
> > On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Alexander Frøyseth
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > :D
> > > How are the controlls?
> > > This is a big plus :D
> > > Robert Schuster skrev:
> > >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Alexander Frøyseth schrieb:
> > >
> > >
> > > Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?
> > > If that will go, I will be a very happy man :D
> > >
> > >
> > > Works. I have put 0.6.0 into OE lately.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> 


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

[Shawn]

This is for the Colorado group purchase (10 pack plus 1 debug board). Our Utah 
friend is paying via PayPal and we figured if we could make the lump payment 
that way, we would. If not, I just need to know so we can get all the money 
into one place (: 

Thanks, 
Shawn S


- Original Message 
From: Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:37:57 PM
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

 Well
How are we going to pay anyway?
Talking about single and group.
steve skrev: 
 
I’m not sure
about the paypal. A
long while back when I suggested paypal there was a backlash from 
concerned
people who thought that paypal
was evil because it was American. I’ll check on that.
( not the
evil part, the paypal part)
 
WRT to one
shipment, if you order a 10
pack and debug board  I would be surprised it was split into two
shipments. 
 
 



From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shawn
Sent: Friday, May 09,
2008 6:24 AM
To: List for Openmoko
community
discussion
Subject: Re: questions
for steve
regarding group purchases
 
Hi
steve, 

thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group
purchase: 

Can we pay the group payment via paypal? 
If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we
order that
at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order
that on his
own?

Thanks!
 . . .shawn
- Original Message 
From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM
Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that
persons location.

Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about
this.
And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and
others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up
front
and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will
just
choose to do a single phone. 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases

steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group
purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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RE: Freerunner...when??

[steve]

 You have these stages to go through.

 Production: produce a pile of phones
 Test: test a Pile of phones.
 Pack: pack a pile of phones
 Ship from factory: ship a pile of phones.
 Customs: Phones sit in customs.
 Ship to Disty: phones get a ride in truck.
 Disty: Phones get prepared for shipment.
 web shop opens!
 
Not 1-2 weeks, trust me.

That said, production will commence before may 16.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:41 AM
To: Giorgio M.; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Freerunner...when??

Nobody's 100% sure (not even OM), but it looks like they'll do their
first production run in the next few (e.g. 3-5) days.  Should be
available a little bit after that, say 1-2 weeks?

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:27 AM, Giorgio M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi to everybody,
>
>  i'm new in the community list and I have a simple question:
>  after a lot of time (too many time..), when (finally) Freerunner will be
>  sold exactly??
>
>  thanks
>
>   --
>   Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f
>
>   Sponsor:
>   CONCORSO BEST WESTERN
>  Gioca e vinci! In palio ogni giorno buoni sconto da 50€ per soggiorni in
>  tutto il mondo ed estrazione finale di una Citroen C1
>   Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=7802&d=20080508
>
>
>
>  ___
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>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

[Alexander Frøyseth]

Well
How are we going to pay anyway?
Talking about single and group.
steve skrev:


I'm not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested 
paypal there was a backlash from


concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was 
American. I'll check on that.


( not the evil part, the paypal part)

 

WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board  I would 
be surprised it was split into two


shipments.

 

 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Shawn

*Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM
*To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
*Subject:* Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

 


Hi steve,

thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group 
purchase:


Can we pay the group payment via paypal?
If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we 
order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should 
he order that on his own?


Thanks!
 . . .shawn

- Original Message 
From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM
Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that
persons location.

Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about 
this.

And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and
others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up 
front

and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just
choose to do a single phone.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson

Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases

steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[JW]

or gta03 was the board for that gps (DASH) thing

hence next phone is gta04

JW
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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

[steve]

I'm not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested paypal
there was a backlash from 

concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was American.
I'll check on that.

( not the evil part, the paypal part)

 

WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board  I would be
surprised it was split into two

shipments. 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

 

Hi steve, 

thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group purchase:


Can we pay the group payment via paypal? 
If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order
that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order
that on his own?

Thanks!
 . . .shawn

- Original Message 
From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM
Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that
persons location.

Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this.
And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and
others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front
and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just
choose to do a single phone. 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases

steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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RE: Stylus Recommendation

[steve]

How do you think I knew about rod holders?  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:47 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: RE: Stylus Recommendation

steve writes:
>haha. this will make you laugh.

Not if you're a fisherman...  though I've got rod holders I like a lot
better.

>Like this in miniature mounted vertically on the back panel. backwoods
geek!
>
>http://www.rodmounts.com/


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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano]

Hugo Mills ha scritto:

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 06:22:00PM +0100, Mo Abrahams wrote:

Hmm, hopefully someone else will shed more light on that. I know
different cultures have numbers that are considered unlucky, for example
13 in a lot of western cultures (not sure why),


   One theory is because it was the number of people present at the
Last Supper.

   Hugo.


Or simply there are 2 ideas that come in my mind:
1) GTA03 as a development release (like the kernel tree, 2.4 usable, 2.5 
development, 2.6 usable)


2) there is another milestone for the GTA02, the mass market phone, 
actually the hardware is fine, but the software still has some bugs and 
it's incomplete in some part



Cya!
Pietro

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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[john]

According to De La Soul it is!

2008/5/10 Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
[snip]
>
> Hmm, hopefully someone else will shed more light on that. I know
> different cultures have numbers that are considered unlucky, for example
> 13 in a lot of western cultures (not sure why), and the number 4 in
> Japanese culture (due to it having the same pronunciation (shi) as the
> word for death)... I think that also applies to chinese... but I have
> never heard of 3 being unlucky.
> Wasn't it meant to be the magic number?

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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Hugo Mills]

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 06:22:00PM +0100, Mo Abrahams wrote:
> Hmm, hopefully someone else will shed more light on that. I know
> different cultures have numbers that are considered unlucky, for example
> 13 in a lot of western cultures (not sure why),

   One theory is because it was the number of people present at the
Last Supper.

   Hugo.

-- 
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===
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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Mo Abrahams]

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 19:04 +0200, Andrea Debortoli wrote:
> I heard about GTA04 on lists but fairly never about GTA03
> btw I heard that numer 3 could be a particular numer that's better to
> skip in naming devices...
> I don't know if it's a religion/culture thingbut I don't careI
> WANT IT!...:)

Hmm, hopefully someone else will shed more light on that. I know
different cultures have numbers that are considered unlucky, for example
13 in a lot of western cultures (not sure why), and the number 4 in
Japanese culture (due to it having the same pronunciation (shi) as the
word for death)... I think that also applies to chinese... but I have
never heard of 3 being unlucky.
Wasn't it meant to be the magic number?


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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Michele Renda]

Mo Abrahams wrote:

This is coming from a person who has never paid more than £20 for a
phone, and has never had a new one (always second hand). I never cared
about mobile phones until openmoko.
  
Same here. In this moment I am using two phone payed 10 Euros (without 
abonament :)

But now I want a phone nice! And I think GTA02 will work fine for me!

Can't for the life of me remember how I first heard about it though =S.

Also... why is it going from GTA02 to GTA04 ? Won't the next phone be
GTA03 (even if it is a developer model like GTA01 was)?

Mo.

  

Right, where is GTA03? :)

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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Andrea Debortoli]

I heard about GTA04 on lists but fairly never about GTA03
btw I heard that numer 3 could be a particular numer that's better to skip
in naming devices...
I don't know if it's a religion/culture thingbut I don't careI WANT
IT!...:)

2008/5/10 Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 18:17 +0200, Andrea Debortoli wrote:
> > also days of 399$ Freerunner will go:)
> > and GTA04 is already under early development...I think I'll wait a bit
> > more to purchase
>
>
> You are a lot more patient than I am.
>
> The only reason I didn't get the GTA01 is because I knew wifi was on
> it's way. I have been watching this project since pretty much the
> beginning, dreaming of when I will have one of these phones in my hand.
> This is coming from a person who has never paid more than £20 for a
> phone, and has never had a new one (always second hand). I never cared
> about mobile phones until openmoko.
> Can't for the life of me remember how I first heard about it though =S.
>
> Also... why is it going from GTA02 to GTA04 ? Won't the next phone be
> GTA03 (even if it is a developer model like GTA01 was)?
>
> Mo.
>
>
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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Mo Abrahams]

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 18:17 +0200, Andrea Debortoli wrote:
> also days of 399$ Freerunner will go:)
> and GTA04 is already under early development...I think I'll wait a bit
> more to purchase


You are a lot more patient than I am.

The only reason I didn't get the GTA01 is because I knew wifi was on
it's way. I have been watching this project since pretty much the
beginning, dreaming of when I will have one of these phones in my hand.
This is coming from a person who has never paid more than £20 for a
phone, and has never had a new one (always second hand). I never cared
about mobile phones until openmoko.
Can't for the life of me remember how I first heard about it though =S.

Also... why is it going from GTA02 to GTA04 ? Won't the next phone be
GTA03 (even if it is a developer model like GTA01 was)?

Mo.


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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Andrea Debortoli]

also days of 399$ Freerunner will go:)
and GTA04 is already under early development...I think I'll wait a bit more
to purchase

2008/5/10 Kunal Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi SK,
>
>   Just to clarify, iPhone 8 GB (including the this 8 GB memory) is 399 US$.
>
>   Of course the other issues like service provider agreement is an added
> pain.
>   But the days of US$700 iPhone are gone.
>  Regards,
> Kunal
>
> Shakthi Kannan wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> --- Kunal Singh wrote:
>> | Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
>> | This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
>> \--
>>
>> Actually, the iPhone is costlier (around INR 27-28k, or USD 700) than
>> the FreeRunner (INR 20k, or USD 500). But, one cannot compare price
>> with software freedom ("priceless").
>>
>> http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/apr/16apple.htm
>>
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/18/vodafone-will-reportedly-carry-iphone-in-india-in-september
>>
>> http://www.iphonenirvana.net/
>>
>> ---
>> | And the reason why I want to participate in open source development
>> \--
>>
>> ... in which case the iPhone is out of the question. So, why bother
>> about the cost?
>>
>> Even if you imported hardware development boards from China/Taiwan to
>> India, you will end up paying 70% of the product prise for
>> customs+tax. If you want to do it as business, then, add some
>> percentage for your profit, which, will again increase the consumer
>> price.
>>
>> Or, do it the usual way. Buy it in US/Europe/Singapore, and if someone
>> known to you is flying down to India (which always happens), ask them
>> to hand-carry it.
>>
>> SK
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Kunal Singh]

Hi SK,

   Just to clarify, iPhone 8 GB (including the this 8 GB memory) is 399 
US$.


   Of course the other issues like service provider agreement is an 
added pain.

   But the days of US$700 iPhone are gone.
  
Regards,

Kunal

Shakthi Kannan wrote:

Hi,

--- Kunal Singh wrote:
| Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
| This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
\--

Actually, the iPhone is costlier (around INR 27-28k, or USD 700) than
the FreeRunner (INR 20k, or USD 500). But, one cannot compare price
with software freedom ("priceless").

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/apr/16apple.htm

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/18/vodafone-will-reportedly-carry-iphone-in-india-in-september

http://www.iphonenirvana.net/

---
| And the reason why I want to participate in open source development
\--

... in which case the iPhone is out of the question. So, why bother
about the cost?

Even if you imported hardware development boards from China/Taiwan to
India, you will end up paying 70% of the product prise for
customs+tax. If you want to do it as business, then, add some
percentage for your profit, which, will again increase the consumer
price.

Or, do it the usual way. Buy it in US/Europe/Singapore, and if someone
known to you is flying down to India (which always happens), ask them
to hand-carry it.

SK

  




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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Mo Abrahams]

Maybe someone could make a nice gamepad accessory that just snaps onto
the bottom of the phone? With regards to the wiimote, or any other
controller for that matter, I can't visualise someone holding the screen
(phone) in one hand, and the controller in the other.

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 14:45 +0100, Ivo Anjo wrote:
> I myself was planning on (ab)using the usb host feature to connect a
> real gamepad to the openmoko.
> No more problems with lack of keys to use on the game :)
> 
> Ivo
> 
> P.s.: Also, we have bluetooth, so ps3 remote and wiimote should also be 
> usable.
> 
> On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Alexander Frøyseth
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > :D
> > How are the controlls?
> > This is a big plus :D
> > Robert Schuster skrev:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Alexander Frøyseth schrieb:
> >
> >
> > Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?
> > If that will go, I will be a very happy man :D
> >
> >
> > Works. I have put 0.6.0 into OE lately.
> >
> > Regards
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Ivo Anjo]

I myself was planning on (ab)using the usb host feature to connect a
real gamepad to the openmoko.
No more problems with lack of keys to use on the game :)

Ivo

P.s.: Also, we have bluetooth, so ps3 remote and wiimote should also be usable.

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Alexander Frøyseth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :D
> How are the controlls?
> This is a big plus :D
> Robert Schuster skrev:
>
> Hi.
>
> Alexander Frøyseth schrieb:
>
>
> Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?
> If that will go, I will be a very happy man :D
>
>
> Works. I have put 0.6.0 into OE lately.
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
>
>
> 
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>
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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Alexander Frøyseth]

:D
How are the controlls?
This is a big plus :D
Robert Schuster skrev:

Hi.

Alexander Frøyseth schrieb:
  

Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?
If that will go, I will be a very happy man :D


Works. I have put 0.6.0 into OE lately.

Regards
Robert

  



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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Kunal Singh]

Hi all,

 thanks for so much of information. Now I have a better knowledge of 
what extra I am going to get with Free-runner:


   (1) no contract with service provider
   (2) no hidden costs like i-tunes
   (3) openness; freedom to experiment
  
In addition I will be supporting open source.


another point which I wanted to reply to
> Michele wrote:
> Open-source development doesn't mean that the programmer work for 
free! This is a common error that a lot of person do.
> In Openmoko there are a lot of talented persons that has a family and 
they need a salary.

Hi Michele, fully agree with you on both the facts.
   (1) Open-source development does not mean free. But effective cost 
come down as (a) As there will be some contributors (though it will be 
very less % of total, and this type of free support will mainly come 
during later stages of the project) working for free (b) making big 
profits is generally not the goal of open-source projects (again i say 
generally, there will be exceptions), whereas profit is the sole 
objective with other projects. the open-source projects have other 
motivations (in addition to profit)
   (2) There are lot of talented persons on project - hats off to them. 
They have developed a phone which is comparable to any other smart phone 
in the world. Those phones have hundreds of developer working on it with 
budget of hundreds of millions US$. And they take years to perfect their 
designs. openMoko is a wonderful product.


Regards,
Kunal
enaut wrote:

Kunal Singh schrieb:
  

Hi,

   I am located in India, and I have decided to go for Free-runner.
   But, I am really wondering about why this phone is so costly?
   Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
   This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
(free-runner is currently available for $500 in India).
   Also, it looks to me that iPhone has much more features (it has 8
GB memory - I could not see similar in Free-runner).
   On a plus side, iPhone is fully tested. Their is official
performance rating for each feature.

   Why is the Free-runner cost so high?
   With open-source development, the cost of devices should in fact
come down (that is my thinking - correct me if I am wrong). At least
be at par with the commercial products.

   Is the high cost due to the low volume production? Or something
related to the location of production units?
   If the cost is high because of above (or similar) factors, I assume
that costs will come down in long run.
   In such a scenario, does any one have a (rough) idea about what the
final (appx) costs would be?
   Will it be any better than the commercial products?

   My interest in openMoko is purely from a developer's point of view
(I guess every one currently using it is has similar interests).
   And the reason why I want to participate in open source development
is that I want technology to proliferate and become affordable to the
common masses.
   If this objective is not going to be satisfied, I am going to feel
a bit dis-appointed with the loss of time which I spend on my efforts.

   Also, I really find the Free-runner too expensive just for the
development purpose. I am hoping that if I can use it as my
cell-phone, I can feel a little better. In case the phone is not
practically usable (very poor battery performance, or loosing
networks, going to infinite sleep etc), that will add to
dis-appointment too.

   Another possibility - is it that Free-runner is much beyond iPhone
in feature list (which I have failed to capture)?



I think the cost is that high because you get an Iphone usually with
acontract to a specific firm.
the other thing is that the Iphoneis closed sothey make the real money
by selling music and stuff like that.

for the "hardware features" i think they are pretty even.
the iphone has multituch but no GPS and lower resolution.

but the big feature of om is, that you are independent. you can do what
you want with it. Iphone contracts dont allow you that.

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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Mikko Rauhala]

la, 2008-05-10 kello 11:06 +0200, Tomas Gustavsson kirjoitti:
> I do not know if this is true but I read somewhere that dosemu wins over
> dosbox in performance any day. Does anyone knows if this is true?

It is true.

The reason it is true is that dosemu runs the program code natively on
the host processor, whereas dosbox does emulation.

On an ARM cpu, the former approach is unlikely to work.

-- 
Mikko Rauhala   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/>
Transhumanist   - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/>
Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/>




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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[rakshat hooja]

Just to clarify the Rs 2/- price in India includes shipping to your
address in India, customs and VAT duties, a 30 days return policy (We added
to the Openmoko DOA return policy at our own risk as we want the initial
lots of phones to go to people who are aware that the software needs
polishing and are comfortable using the phone; this is something that no
other phone company is offering in India though is a norm abroad) and a one
year warranty ( we are again keeping 5% of our stock in reserve to deal with
warranty returns that can not be repaired that adds to our costs).

Keeping the above in mind Rs 2/- looks like a reasonable price.

On another note I have used the GTA01  as my main phone for some time and on
qtopia and (as far as I know) on mwester's suspend resume worked kernel  I
don't get calls that don't wake up suspend as long as I do a full shut down
and boot up every morning.

Battery life is a problem (5-6 hours if you talk a lot or dont talk at all)
but I keep a spare battery and almost always am near a wall socket, car or
computer (HTC Universal chargers seem to work for me - not too sure if fast
charge is actually enabled but the phone charges up).


Rakshat

www.idasystems.net



-- Forwarded message --
> From: Kunal Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:43:22 +0530
> Subject: Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life,
> Shipping Date
> Hi,
>
>   I am located in India, and I have decided to go for Free-runner.
>   But, I am really wondering about why this phone is so costly?
>   Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
>   This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
> (free-runner is currently available for $500 in India).
>   Also, it looks to me that iPhone has much more features (it has 8 GB
> memory - I could not see similar in Free-runner).
>   On a plus side, iPhone is fully tested. Their is official performance
> rating for each feature.
>
>   Why is the Free-runner cost so high?
>   With open-source development, the cost of devices should in fact come
> down (that is my thinking - correct me if I am wrong). At least be at par
> with the commercial products.
>
>   Is the high cost due to the low volume production? Or something related
> to the location of production units?
>   If the cost is high because of above (or similar) factors, I assume that
> costs will come down in long run.
>   In such a scenario, does any one have a (rough) idea about what the final
> (appx) costs would be?
>   Will it be any better than the commercial products?
>
>   My interest in openMoko is purely from a developer's point of view (I
> guess every one currently using it is has similar interests).
>   And the reason why I want to participate in open source development is
> that I want technology to proliferate and become affordable to the common
> masses.
>   If this objective is not going to be satisfied, I am going to feel a bit
> dis-appointed with the loss of time which I spend on my efforts.
>
>   Also, I really find the Free-runner too expensive just for the
> development purpose. I am hoping that if I can use it as my cell-phone, I
> can feel a little better. In case the phone is not practically usable (very
> poor battery performance, or loosing networks, going to infinite sleep etc),
> that will add to dis-appointment too.
>
>   Another possibility - is it that Free-runner is much beyond iPhone in
> feature list (which I have failed to capture)?
>
> Regards,
> Kunal Singh
> www.singhkunal.com
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Tomas Gustavsson]

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Svara till: List for Openmoko community discussion

Till: List for Openmoko community discussion

Ämne: Re: Gaming on Openmoko?
Datum: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:55:02 +0100

p

I do not know if this is true but I read somewhere that dosemu wins over
dosbox in performance any day. Does anyone knows if this is true?
Because, if it's that way then we should really ditch dosbox and focus
on dosemu for our nostalgia ;).

/tomplast


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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- Kunal Singh wrote:
| Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
| This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
\--

Actually, the iPhone is costlier (around INR 27-28k, or USD 700) than
the FreeRunner (INR 20k, or USD 500). But, one cannot compare price
with software freedom ("priceless").

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/apr/16apple.htm

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/18/vodafone-will-reportedly-carry-iphone-in-india-in-september

http://www.iphonenirvana.net/

---
| And the reason why I want to participate in open source development
\--

... in which case the iPhone is out of the question. So, why bother
about the cost?

Even if you imported hardware development boards from China/Taiwan to
India, you will end up paying 70% of the product prise for
customs+tax. If you want to do it as business, then, add some
percentage for your profit, which, will again increase the consumer
price.

Or, do it the usual way. Buy it in US/Europe/Singapore, and if someone
known to you is flying down to India (which always happens), ask them
to hand-carry it.

SK

-- 
Shakthi Kannan
http://www.shakthimaan.com

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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Mo Abrahams]

You are right, I was joking... doesn't mean I'm not disappointed though!
Sounds like you are doing amazing work though, keep it up =D

On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 08:59 +0200, Robert Schuster wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Mo Abrahams schrieb:
> > I like the idea of dosbox... any chance of dungeon keeper? Or is that
> > being a bit too optimistic?
> You're joking. :)
> 
> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=5
> 
> I added latest dosbox to OE lately and tested it on the Neo and the
> N800. On the much more advanced N800 hardware Dune2 was barely playable
> (4-5 frameskip, no sound). Ask again in 5 years. ;)
> 
> Regards
> Robert
> 
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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[enaut]

Kunal Singh schrieb:
> Hi,
>
>I am located in India, and I have decided to go for Free-runner.
>But, I am really wondering about why this phone is so costly?
>Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
>This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner
> (free-runner is currently available for $500 in India).
>Also, it looks to me that iPhone has much more features (it has 8
> GB memory - I could not see similar in Free-runner).
>On a plus side, iPhone is fully tested. Their is official
> performance rating for each feature.
>
>Why is the Free-runner cost so high?
>With open-source development, the cost of devices should in fact
> come down (that is my thinking - correct me if I am wrong). At least
> be at par with the commercial products.
>
>Is the high cost due to the low volume production? Or something
> related to the location of production units?
>If the cost is high because of above (or similar) factors, I assume
> that costs will come down in long run.
>In such a scenario, does any one have a (rough) idea about what the
> final (appx) costs would be?
>Will it be any better than the commercial products?
>
>My interest in openMoko is purely from a developer's point of view
> (I guess every one currently using it is has similar interests).
>And the reason why I want to participate in open source development
> is that I want technology to proliferate and become affordable to the
> common masses.
>If this objective is not going to be satisfied, I am going to feel
> a bit dis-appointed with the loss of time which I spend on my efforts.
>
>Also, I really find the Free-runner too expensive just for the
> development purpose. I am hoping that if I can use it as my
> cell-phone, I can feel a little better. In case the phone is not
> practically usable (very poor battery performance, or loosing
> networks, going to infinite sleep etc), that will add to
> dis-appointment too.
>
>Another possibility - is it that Free-runner is much beyond iPhone
> in feature list (which I have failed to capture)?
>
I think the cost is that high because you get an Iphone usually with
acontract to a specific firm.
the other thing is that the Iphoneis closed sothey make the real money
by selling music and stuff like that.

for the "hardware features" i think they are pretty even.
the iphone has multituch but no GPS and lower resolution.

but the big feature of om is, that you are independent. you can do what
you want with it. Iphone contracts dont allow you that.

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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Michele Renda]

Hello

I am not a phone production expert, but I will try to explain my point 
of view.


Kunal Singh wrote:

Hi,

   I am located in India, and I have decided to go for Free-runner.
   But, I am really wondering about why this phone is so costly?
   Apple will be releasing the iPhone in India later this year.
   This phone is likely to be priced much cheaper than free-runner 
(free-runner is currently available for $500 in India).
I don't know how cost the iphone in India. I can do the comparation with 
the US price of Iphone.
The iphone cost 499$ for 4 Gb version and 599$ for 8 Gb version. (please 
correct me if I am wrong) + 1 abbonament of 1 year (or 2, I don't 
remember with an Operator).
Also this is a cost because by fact limit the possibility to activate 
the abonament with the operator that you prefer. May be you will like 
also, but it is a cost.


The FreeRunner cost 399$ + expedition (that in europe are around 70 $) + 
taxes (but they are valid also with Iphone). So I think it is a bit cheaper.


In every case this kind of comparation is a bit senseless because we are 
comparatin two different type of device.


1. IPhone want to be a phone easy of use, powerfull, styled (they used 
the best designer to create it), closed (you can use only firmware 
released by Apple), protected (the program you can install must to pass 
by apple store.


2, FreeRunner want to be (for now) a more Power user phone, powerfull, 
very open (in every this, from source code of Firmware to cad files), 
where the user has all the freedom to install and to develop the program 
that it want. You can put your had in it, to customize it in a way that 
I phone don't permit.

If you want you can change also the operative system.

It is like comparating PC compatible with a Mac. Are devices can not to 
be comparated. There is who want to be able to build his pc piece by 
piece, and who want that it just run.


If you want to put your hands in or to partecipate as viewer to an 
opensource developent or you have some ethical reason (like me), I think 
is good for you a Freerunner.


If you want it just run (and well), that is styled, that use wallet 
garden services, and IPhone is ok for you.


I was able to explain?
   Also, it looks to me that iPhone has much more features (it has 8 
GB memory - I could not see similar in Free-runner).
It is expandible with micro sd bigger that 8 Gb, but you can do it only 
if you need. Freerunner is not very usable as video playback device. 
Than Openmoko is trying to use when is possible device with open 
specification, and this is not very easy for a firm. Doing me they are 
doing a lot to bring chip firms to open their specification, and this, 
according me, help to make a better world!
   On a plus side, iPhone is fully tested. Their is official 
performance rating for each feature.

They can not to test all the feature possible, because it is a open box :)


   Why is the Free-runner cost so high?
   With open-source development, the cost of devices should in fact 
come down (that is my thinking - correct me if I am wrong). At least 
be at par with the commercial products.
Open-source development doesn't mean that the programmer work for free! 
This is a common error that a lot of person do.
In Openmoko there are a lot of talented persons that has a family and 
they need a salary. Openmoko, with difference of Apple, take money only 
on the sell of Freerunner, not also, like Apple, on the sales of the 
music that they sell with I Tunes. Is normal that in case of Freerunner 
the price go up


   Is the high cost due to the low volume production? Or something 
related to the location of production units?
   If the cost is high because of above (or similar) factors, I assume 
that costs will come down in long run.
   In such a scenario, does any one have a (rough) idea about what the 
final (appx) costs would be?

   Will it be any better than the commercial products?

It is volume related, it is target related, openess related, etc. I hope 
it will become "other device" comparable in a short future, I hope a 
lot, but for now, it can be comparated only thinking well which are 
their particular characteristics.
   My interest in openMoko is purely from a developer's point of view 
(I guess every one currently using it is has similar interests).
   And the reason why I want to participate in open source development 
is that I want technology to proliferate and become affordable to the 
common masses.
   If this objective is not going to be satisfied, I am going to feel 
a bit dis-appointed with the loss of time which I spend on my efforts.


   Also, I really find the Free-runner too expensive just for the 
development purpose. I am hoping that if I can use it as my 
cell-phone, I can feel a little better. In case the phone is not 
practically usable (very poor battery performance, or loosing 
networks, going to infinite sleep etc), that will add to 
dis-appointment too.


   Another possibi

Cost. (was Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date)

[Ted Schundler]

>   Also, it looks to me that iPhone has much more features (it has 8 GB
> memory - I could not see similar in Free-runner).
As per the SDHC thread, any standard microSDHC card will work. I think
the plan is to include 512MB by default. But you can buy an 8GB card
on your own, then you've got 8GB. And as I understand, 16GB cards will
be on the market soon.

>   Why is the Free-runner cost so high?
>   With open-source development, the cost of devices should in fact come down
> (that is my thinking - correct me if I am wrong). At least be at par with
I'm not sure why you're focusing exclusively on the iPhone. It is a
Smart Phone, so that includes iPhone, Blackberry, Dash, etc. all in
that class. Such phones seem to be generally in the $300-$600 USD
range (purchased separately from a contract), so $400 USD doesn't seem
too unreasonable to me. Maybe the Indian market is different.

Then there's the simple supply and demand issue. OpenMoko's current
audience is techies and developer types. It doesn't quite seem ready
for mainstream anyway. And since it's inherently unlocked, I wouldn't
expect to see it as an option from any cell provider until/unless the
concept catches on more widely. So, the demand is tiny compared to the
iPhone. And it doesn't have a well established foothold for businesses
like BlackBerry.

I'd love cheaper too. But, I'm OK with paying the current price, since
I'm interested in supporting this project from a political
perspective. There have to be early adopters to get such an initiative
really off the ground.

Ted

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Re: A few questions about the games

[Robert Schuster]

Hi,

Mo Abrahams schrieb:
> I notice that the game "kobodeluxe" is in the applications menu, not the
> games one. Is there a reason for this?
IMO sdl.bbclass which generates the .desktop file is broken. There is no
possibility to set the displayed program name (it is taken from the
package name) and sets this:

Type=Application
Categories=Games


Apart from that I think that the APPNAME variable is an unfortunate name
for a thing that is called Exec in the .desktop file:

Exec=${APPNAME}

Regards
Robert



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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Robert Schuster]

Hi,

Mo Abrahams schrieb:
> I like the idea of dosbox... any chance of dungeon keeper? Or is that
> being a bit too optimistic?
You're joking. :)

http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=5

I added latest dosbox to OE lately and tested it on the Neo and the
N800. On the much more advanced N800 hardware Dune2 was barely playable
(4-5 frameskip, no sound). Ask again in 5 years. ;)

Regards
Robert



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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Robert Schuster]

Hi.

Alexander Frøyseth schrieb:
> Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?
> If that will go, I will be a very happy man :D
Works. I have put 0.6.0 into OE lately.

Regards
Robert



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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Robert Schuster]

Hi.

David Samblas Martinez schrieb:
> There  are some good java games for movile phone out there  than can be
> executed with jlimo.
s/jlimo/jalimo/ I suppose. :)

I am currently in the process of bringing MIDPath 0.3 into OE. So you
will soon have it in OM, too.

Regards
Robert




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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

[Robert Schuster]

Hi,

ramsesoriginal schrieb:
> I just watched 
> http://gizmodo.com/388688/raging-thunder-iphone-racing-game-shows-tons-of-potential,
> and asked myself what sorts of games are tested/planned/running on the
> freerunner: For example, is planet Penguin Racer Working?
kobodeluxe! :D

There are tons of good games in your average GNU/Linux distro. Just do a
little porting work and add them to OE. Someone fumbled with wesnoth
lately...

Regards
Robert




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