Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Salve Markus! I'm just a student interested in Openmoko/Neo1973 and I'm no expert for embedded systems - but I think it is so obvious that there will be no Linux running on a XDA in the next time that I think I could give you this anwswer: Markus Stehr schrieb am Dienstag, den 05. Dezember 2006 um 08:37h: Just wanted to know if openmoko will be portable, for example to the XDA Neo. Want to get rid of WinMobile on that device. For such a wish it is not the qustion if openmoko is portable enough, the question is what can you do on/with a XDA: - Do you have Linux GSM, audio driver for XDA? - Do you have a bootloader for the XDA? - Will you convert application build for multi-touchscreen to a phone with single-touch? - How many people will join to hack a XDA? - Why should they do fighting against a propritary system, when there is an open, supported device (Neo1973)? So IMHO it isn't realistic that openmoko will run on a XDA and will used it with GSM functions (no driver, no GSM). I even don't expect that it will run on Motorolas Linux phones in near future Ideas for you when you don't like to join developing with the Neo1973, or also if you can't wait to use a little bit Linux on a mobil: - use floydssh to have SSH (1) via GPRS or Bluetooth http://phoenix.inf.upol.cz/~polakr/ - try to use freenx via Bluetooth or GPRS on your XDA http://freenx.berlios.de/ I hope that this will not disapointed you so much that you are loosing the interest on OpenMoko/Neo1973. - What do you dislike (hate most) with your XDA? - What do you miss most with that device? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Can The Proprietary GPS Daemon Be Removed?
On 12/3/06 10:41 AM, Frode edorfaus at xepher.net wrote: My question is: would it be possible to use non-assisted GPS without the proprietary daemon? Nobody concerned about their privacy will want to use the daemon. In the worst-case scenario you should compute the navigation solution from pseudorange data provided by this chipset. To extract it, the same raw data can be logged simultaneously with a sirf receiver using tools from http://www.ualberta.ca/~ckuethe/gps Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Salve Oleg! Oleg Gusev schrieb am Dienstag, den 05. Dezember 2006 um 14:22h: Am Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2006 13:32 schrieb Robert Michel: I'm no expert for embedded systems - but I think it is so obvious that there will be no Linux running on a XDA in the next time The only reason for no (advanced) Linux on XDA _Neo_ (HTC Prophet http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Prophet) is the undocumented OMAP850 CPU. Many other XDA-type phones already have a working Linux distribution running on them. Look for the HTC phones section here: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SupportedHandheldSummary Oh, so I was wrong - but I feel *much* more comfortable with an project that is open from the beginning - with full support of the hardware and the interest of the hardware producer to have this hardware+SDK as long term stratgie instead of reverse engineering and the danger that next generation of hardware will have some tricks to try to prohibit installing an other OS. But when you know these projects a little bit - do you know some ideas what these hackers whant to make better on this phones - something we could make with Openmoko as well? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Will the OpenMoko repository contain drivers for all supported platforms, or will the drivers be distributed and bundled by the hardware vendor into a specific SDK - in this case FIC for the Neo1973? Or is that still to be decided? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
On 05/12/06, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AFAIK FIC is supporting OpenMoko to build a plattform for their hardware - so why should FIC support developer to publish drivers for Motorola devices inside the OpenMoko SDK? Is this similar to the idea that Apple should license OS X for generic computers, not just their own hardware? -- Regards, Dave ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Salve Dave! Dave Crossland schrieb am Dienstag, den 05. Dezember 2006 um 16:56h: On 05/12/06, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AFAIK FIC is supporting OpenMoko to build a plattform for their hardware - so why should FIC support developer to publish drivers for Motorola devices inside the OpenMoko SDK? Is this similar to the idea that Apple should license OS X for generic computers, not just their own hardware? Not directly - I don't know how many people, but AFAI understood does FIC pay/employ developer to build the OpenMoko SDK. And comparing with Trolltec I do not expect a (expensive) licences to use this SDK. To think about to use this SDK for other phones, just from the beginning is in my eyes a little bit impolite - and thinking of other phones because of a faster CPU or Wi-fi or a camera to shortsighted and egocentric (I like most to play with Wi-fi...) The cooperation with FIC could become a very fruitful symbiose - can you remember to have such a dialog with the hardware producer of a phone before the hardwaredesign is finished? So when we do explain the power of a light sensor - that just turning the device could block incomming calls when you do need to be undisturbed for a moment - Sean could motivate FIC to include such a sensor. Or DECT/PMR or the digital version of PMR, DMR (both range of 1-5km) - when the hardware of thephone is not designed by the wish of the network operators we could profit form this cooperation/symbiose with FIC. The same that I try to motivate Sean/FIC to have one free SPI conector on the board for hardware hackers... We could discuss which Bluetooth chip would have the best (open) driver support so that the Neo1973 would become free of close source binary driver and a real trustworthy enviroment. Even when the fist hardware generation of the Neo1973 wouldn't be so special and other smartphones would be better - the real openess from the begining - and the chance for a long time symbiose with FIC is much more important than just having one phone to run linx with it. Of course FIC will focus on selling hardware and will make profit with doing that - but you are right selling a good distribution for other phones could encrease the power of OpenMoko/FIC - when the hardware is not equal, when FIC does have some sensors or interfaces that normal smartphones (designed for the profit of the network operators) people would my install OpenMoko on their Motorola first and buy then a FIC phone. But untill this (and a dual boot option) would run on the close smartphones from other produceres - so easy that my mum would install a different OS to test it out I don't think this will be happend in 2007 or 2008 - so this would not be so important for the mass market so soon. So IMHO would it be a benefit for us, the OpenMoko comunity, to focus on the Neo1973 for the fist period to start a fruitfull longterm symbiosis with FIC. I could understood the wish to hack linux to run everywhere - but when an open Linux smartphone should become a populare product for the mass market - what does this hacks would help? Wouldn't it worth to focusing on giving FIC a sucess, first? And how efficient are such reverse enginiering hacks? When came the Motorola A760 on the market and what is possible to do with it until today? AFAIK are there still to much restrictions - so hacking and developing on such an device is myabe cool, but inefficient - even for those who like to portate the OpenMoko SDK for other devices. Why doing this? - Weaken the chance of FIC to come as new player on the phone market? - Wasting time to have a me-too on other devices instead of doing new things on the Neo1973? I generate many ideas and do flood the list with them - of course some focuse for the first stepps is necessary and focusing on just one device would be a great help to have a rapid devevlopment for this device. BTW I try to inspire you what all would be possible with Neo1973 v1 - so I don't see the need for another supported devcice (yet). (Ok and some of my ideas are to prevent patents and to give an idea what power next Neo1973 could have when they are not designed in order/instruction of the network operators.) But again - I'm just a student, and try to support the great idea OpenMoko/Neo1973 - but I'm no FIC person, especialy no who cares about strategie. About your OS X idea: When OpenMoko is running *very fine* on the Neo1973 it could be the time to start thinking of the idea to distribute/sell a OpenMoko-distribution for other phones, but not now. Even when FIC would say they would like to see OpenMoko running on other devices - just my 2 cents would be: please let us focus on the Neo1973 for the next month IMHO it would realy worth it to do this! :) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Am Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2006 17:29 schrieb Robert Michel: AFAIK FIC is supporting OpenMoko to build a plattform for their hardware - so why should FIC support developer to publish drivers for Motorola devices inside the OpenMoko SDK? IMHO, you are missing the point of Free Software. FIC is in the hardware business, and they should better think how to match or append the HTC product line. When openmoko code is released, it will not take much time to adapt multiplexing code for the videophone on HTC Universal or port it to HTC Hermes http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview It is interesting how the openmoko team will address these issues. Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Am Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2006 18:43 schrieb Robert Michel: To think about to use this SDK for other phones, just from the beginning is in my eyes a little bit impolite - and thinking of other phones because of a faster CPU or Wi-fi or a camera to shortsighted and egocentric (I like most to play with Wi-fi...) I don't really get your point. Working wifi on a phone already exists. What does openmoko SDK change here ? Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Salve Oleg! Oleg Gusev schrieb am Dienstag, den 05. Dezember 2006 um 18:50h: Am Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2006 17:29 schrieb Robert Michel: AFAIK FIC is supporting OpenMoko to build a plattform for their hardware - so why should FIC support developer to publish drivers for Motorola devices inside the OpenMoko SDK? IMHO, you are missing the point of Free Software. FIC is in the hardware business, and they should better think how to match or append the HTC product line. I do not miss the point of free software. I'm shure that FIC and the OpenMoko team does know about the point - see Sean's presentation and some mails here on the list about the use of LGPL for the GUI. When openmoko code is released, it will not take much time to adapt multiplexing code for the videophone on HTC Universal or port it to HTC Hermes http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview It is interesting how the openmoko team will address these issues. Of course, but why should they publish it already today? And beside the point that GPL software does allow to run on other devices - IMHO there is no need to do it as fast as possible because it is possible. Focusing first on helping FIC to have sucsess will be IMHO more fruitfull than hacking OpenMoko on the HTC Hermes. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
On Tuesday 05 December 2006 19:02, Robert Michel wrote: Focusing first on helping FIC to have sucsess will be IMHO more fruitfull than hacking OpenMoko on the HTC Hermes. AFAIK, FIC and HTC are said to be sister companies. (Which strikes me as somewhat weird considering just how closed HTC is but wel who knows). If that is in fact true, I would expect more OpenMoko hardware quite quickly... Just imagine, an OpenMoko Hermes with VGA screen [1] And while I very well understand why one would want the Hermes to run OpenMoko, I'm not sure if the first version would actually work with a lowly QVGA display very well? [1] Eten (which is believe is one of the rather few companies to actually manufacture PocketPC phones besides HTC?) actually has announced a Hermes like slide qwerty device with VGA screen AND GPS integrated so HTC will (have to) follow quickly with one I guess. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Salve Oleg! Oleg Gusev schrieb am Dienstag, den 05. Dezember 2006 um 18:54h: Am Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2006 18:43 schrieb Robert Michel: To think about to use this SDK for other phones, just from the beginning is in my eyes a little bit impolite - and thinking of other phones because of a faster CPU or Wi-fi or a camera to shortsighted and egocentric (I like most to play with Wi-fi...) I don't really get your point. Working wifi on a phone already exists. What does openmoko SDK change here ? Thinking to use OpenMoko on other phones because this devices has Wi-Fi - instead of developing on Neo1973. IMHO that would be shortsighted and egocentric instead of working on a longterm strategie - OpenMoko would profit when FIC would have succsess. Not only in the way that the hardware would be full supported and open docuemented, not only that I acpect that FIC would react on our hardware wishes - also by give good developers a reduction for the device - consider what normal employee would cost and which potential an open source developer community has. So what would be the sence in hacking a THC windows mobile? To motivate THC to switch to linux? By using OpenMoko? Wouldn't kick THC much more to use OpenMoko when OpenMoko/Neo1973 is a great succsess to the mass-market? I don't think that some hackers solutions for the THC devices would convince THC. And just support for Wi-fi or a camera is no big issue - more usable with core telephone functions beating in this central points Symbian, trolltec and windows mobile that would convice THC or other to use OpenMoko. OK everybody has it's own motivation to hack/develope with OpenMoko, but I would like to compare it with the spirit of debian maintainers - they do care about software that they like, but they work on that other could use this software as easy and reliable as possible. So every maintainer put a small part to let Debian be such a great and powerfull distribution. Now OpenMoko is not totaly equal to Debian - it is part of a strategie of FIC - so FIC is paying (AFAIK) that some good hackers develope the OpenMoko SDK. In the same way that I complain that Motorola is only using GNU/Linux without supporting the community to develope for this phones - in the same way I can't took OpenMoko SDK with a shortsighted and play with it on other phones without giving FIC something back. And when some of my/our ideas/wishes come true - reserve battery - call manager based on light, sound, time, localisation... - different ways to answer a call - ... I would like to see it not only on one device - I would like to see it on a new generation of phones So when the Neo1973 and it's successor will become populare, there is a chance that this plattform will be a growing, long living one. Starting to early to hack it everywhere could demage the sucess of FIC, and so the dream of real open Linux smartphones. So in IMHO it would be a fault to be shortsighted and to waste time with a HTC device, just because it has Wi-Fi or a camera. *WE* could be part of a longterm revolution and by starting a revolution focusing on the most efficent steps is important. Explain me - what would be the long term benefit to run OpenMoko on a THC device in the next month? Do you just like to have a toy for yourself or do you like to revolutionise? What will be your aim? Why wasting time with reverse engineering - when we now have a hardware producer we can talk with *directly*?¹ I'm shure the next Neos would have Wi-Fi and a camera - as more sucessfull OpenMoko/Neo1973 will be as faster this version will be there! So hacking OpenMoko solutions to a HTC device would be a cool hack, but *not* smart it would *not* power up OpenMoko - it would weaken OpenMoko/FIC and delay or risk a next Neo version with Wi-Fi and camera. Cheers, rob ¹imagine a GSM smartphone with DECT and PMR ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 19:37 +0100, Robert Michel wrote: Explain me - what would be the long term benefit to run OpenMoko on a THC device in the next month? I'm not a corporate marketing-ologist, but surely the more hardware platforms OpenMoko runs on, the more credibility it will receive. Do you just like to have a toy for yourself or do you like to revolutionise? What will be your aim? I want a sexy toy which I can whip out of my pocket in the street, show off, and do wonderful revolutionary things with. Oh wait, wrong list. The distinction I make is suggesting the lack of distinction between toy and and revolution - in that the revolution will be 'playing' with small application components (toys), to create flexible component networks dynamically without fear of 'breaking' anything. Sure - LEGO comes with instructions and guides, but the fun is the unlimited potential - because the hard work was already done by the LEGO designers to abstract the nuts and bolts of a car into reusable components.. you can make a car or a plane or a...? You're only limited by your imagination. There doesn't exist a platform today which you could just play rather than work with, in the same way. Why wasting time with reverse engineering - when we now have a hardware producer we can talk with *directly*?¹ Does FIC produce hardware components, or package them together/send to manufacturing? I assumed the latter, although, you are right - corporate weight behind a friendly ear to the communities desires.. a good thing. So hacking OpenMoko solutions to a HTC device would be a cool hack, but *not* smart it would *not* power up OpenMoko - it would weaken OpenMoko/FIC and delay or risk a next Neo version with Wi-Fi and camera. It's a strong statement to make - I recall reading somewhere that a goal of OpenMoko was to encourage many different vendors to implement it on their hardware? Certainly, that was one of the positive points which drew me to the project, having never before heard of FIC. I think maybe it's unwise to spend too much time second guessing FICs business strategy - we have an open communication channel with FIC now, and it can work both ways if required. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Conceptual/Data Framework
On 12/5/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I started coding this beast last night. Not much to see, but if it garners any interest I'll chuck up on Sourceforge. There are still plenty of things to be decided, so if you'd like to contribute code or ideas, please do :-) Cheers, Richard P.S. Rereading that first sentence makes me think that Beast is a better name than not having a name, but it's all open. yeah, if you want to put it up somewhere I'd like to give you a hand -- --Jeff What DO you call whitewater when you live in the desert? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is it portable? [scanned]
Hi! Um, folks, didnt want to start a flamewar here with my innocent question :-( @Rober Mitchel: - What do you dislike (hate most) with your XDA? Its running Windows with some o2-branding i strongly dislike. Not some Simlock, wouldnt have bought it then, but branding is something i dislike. For example, might be some mistake from my side but who knows..., when i try to connect to some WiFi and use the IE i can acses exactly one site and then he wants to connect trough GPRS. If i disable the phone part he just refuses to load more than one page. Boomer. Then, why for gods sake do i have to reset it every week? If i dont i get some weird effects, like not recognizing that he not longer gets power from the trafo or just hanging there for 5 seconds till i get into the phone subprogramm. - What do you miss most with that device? I cant develop as i dont want to use some obscure Windows Visual Something SDK for that, i purely develop on Linux as its fast and stable even wehn having to cope with my thousand windows chaoticaly placed over 4 desktops ;) There is some Windows Mobile SDK for linux, but frankly, it sucks. All i can do is developing shell programms that i can only use over a ssh connection. The Neo1973 is a nice thing, if i can get one trough contract extension i will get one. And i have one idea, but thats another thread i will open i a minute ;) Greetings, Markus Stehr ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
