Re: Thunderbird - Reply to Mail List
Hi. Jonathon Suggs napisa?(a): I feel really stupid asking this, but I am having troubles using Thunderbird. I receive the list in digest mode. For each digest, it will show up as a single messages in my inbox. Also for each digest it will have I was thinking this should be a very easy thing to do (and other mail clients make this easy), but I am pretty much stumped. Any thoughts? Go to mailing list settings https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community and disable digest mode. Regards, -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Department AutoGuard Insurance Ltd. Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: OpenMoko workshop at ETel
Hi I Krysztof and Sean, In reference to Krys email below, I would also like to know what the status of developers should have to get the device? Should they be affiliated to a company, or can student engineer like me, get it on phase 1? I am studying Computer Science focused on mobile software. This is my last year. :) Thanks in advance for your answers. Bruce 2007/2/28, Krzysztof Kajkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2007/2/28, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 17:02 -0500, Alan Ide wrote: So, I am a little confussed still. Are you saying the Refreshed version of the Neo that will be released in June will have A faster CPU, dedicated Graphics Acceleration, AND Wifi?? If so, thats a hell of an upgrade after 3 months. The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later. That's wonderful news Sean! Could you clarify: are there going to be two 'Phases 1' - one for developers at the end of March and the second on June? Could you tell us something about discount for those who buy early Phase1 devices and then want to buy next generation dev? regards cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Bruce Deschamps 1380, route d'Antibes Hameau des Oliviers 06560 Valbonne Mobile: 06 61 68 72 17 Dom.:04 92 98 18 64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: OpenMoko workshop at ETel
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 04:08:39 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: CPU, dedicated Graphics Acceleration, AND Wifi?? If so, thats a hell of an upgrade after 3 months. The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later. Thanks for the comment, it's much appreciated. pgpT58XKX3ahv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
I like the idea. I agree with Cayco, that you cannot ask police to catch the thief. Actually in some contries that might work. :) But sending coords would be very interesting solution. As the GPS coords may be not very accurate I'd extend the idea to bluetooth connection which is a very short range, to point person who owns the stolen phone. The phone might change it's bluetooth device name to some special string (like stolen NEO :-) ) so we might detect it in a short range and point person who owns it. That's a really good idea. Phone after detecting theft should work with thief's SIM card as usual but also send GPS coords. Remember that if you use PIN code thief cannot use your SIM until he types right PIN. He/she should use his own SIM card. Here's the problem: Although it's a good idea that the thief has to use his own SIM (that's what he expects anyway) but it won't be easy to get a GPRS-connection for sending the coordinates. If he is using another provider, the settings will differ. Many providers even demand a password for opening a data-connection... The theft-problem _could_ be solved by the providers. They can locate any cellphone anyway and should be able to give information to the police, when a cellphone with an IMEI that's reported stolen connects to their network. But they don't want to! And a professional thief who is able to change the IMEI somehow will also be able to reflash the Neo1973... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Hi all, In addition to the data suggested to be sent when a phone is in stolen mode, such as GPS, perhaps the phone could even send other data. If the person uses a stolen phone to store contacts, send the contacts. in fact, send the numbers dialed, too. If they use it to manage email, forward the email. What I imagine is the phone passively building a profile of the thief. The more info gathered, the easier to find the phone. I understand this could give rise to privacy concerns, but I think ideally be an issue only for the thief. And with respect to over which connection to send this data, I imagine it would be possible to just rely on the underlying connection manager. It would handle establishing connections, and then kick-off the anti-theft measures as required. Just my thoughts after seeing some of the discussion on this list. Thanks, Chris ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
2007/2/28, Bartłomiej Zdanowski DRP AC2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi. That's the solution! Let thief pay for data transmission :-) How about silently calling 0700 and othe highly price erotic phone lines? :-D cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-mobile bans user's own apps
Well, as stupid that sounds, without signing a contract, you won't get a SIM from them. And I do know, that there are really stupid carriers (e.g. drei.at) that insist on the 24-months contract binding time, even if you don't take the subsidy. Guess the US carriers are even more evil, because they in fact have no regulation nor competition to reign them in. (btw, using a prepaid card involves legally speaking a contract too, it's just that the contract is not signed, only executed by doing. Plus prepaid data costs are not very attractive.) Andreas * Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070228 15:05]: Why would you sign a contract? My understanding was that the only benefit to a contract was a subsidized phone. If you're using the Neo1973, you're not going to need that crippled, subsidized phone. Then, since you're not bound by a ridiculous contract, you could switch to another provider if they tried to restrict your data usage. -Steven On 2/27/07, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The part that scares me about the Data Connect is the wording at the top-level data page that includes the phrase Requires usage with a Cingular Wireless PDA. http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-plans/data-cell-phone-plans.jsp?_requestid=82997_requestid=104169 Data Connect Access your e-mail, corporate intranet, and the Internet while on the go by wirelessly connecting your PDA to the Internet. Requires usage with a Cingular Wireless PDA. Service is not available at all times in all places. View Map and Coverage Limitations. View all 4 Data Connect Cingular Plans I'm a bit worried that they will accept the 2-contract only to turn around after a few weeks and point out that this plan only allows me to use a Cingular PDA. The Smartphone Connect only talks about browsing the internet. That has the potential liability that they only allow a proxied port-80/tcp connection and nothing else. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I recall the same thing happened with cable internet service. Running a server initially just meant running a server that was serving lots of people. Before the year was over it came to mean running your own sendmail which only accepted mail for yourself. -wolfgang Steven ** writes: Seems like you'd want either the Data Connect plan (http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service//cell-phone-plans/data-connect-plans.jsp) or the Smartphone Connect plan (http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service//cell-phone-plans/smartphone-connect-plans.jsp). I'd go with the Smartphone Connect unlimited for $20. -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ISN: 6001*308 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-mobile bans user's own apps
* Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070228 00:06]: Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yep saw that in Slashdot, bit of confusion are they cracking down on existing data levels for cheaper data offerings (something called TZones or similar) or if totally banning. Point is, vote with your feet and go to cingular or someone else. I tried my best to understand the 8+ different Cingular data offerings and it seems at first glance that each of them either requires using a device bought from Cingular or approved by name (eg. the various Blackberry planes) http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-plans/data-cell-phone-plans.jsp?_requestid=82997 Well, the Smartphone, Data and Laptop plans should work. OTOH, it's basic stupidity, because they seem to sell the same product unlimited internet access with different prices depending upon which device you insert your SIM card into. So IANAL, but I guess you should be ok to use the Smartphone plan, as the Neo is a smartphone ;) The problem, why this is stupid, is the fact that many smartphones allow sharing the internet access to a laptop via Bluetooth. They can disable this on their own enhanced brand phones, but buying the same phone from the manufacturer will include this subversive features. (btw, that makes sometimes sense, because my phone has better reception than my UMTS data card.) GPRS/UMTS offers basically one way to differate data offerings, by offering different APNs (access point names). E.g. my phone offers basically three APNs (Blackberry, T-Mobile MMS, Internet). Blackberry will probably connect you to a special network garden, that allows for pushing email. MMS allows sending/receiving MMS. And internet is basically a NAT-ed internet access. Now offering the same network destination (Internet) with different prices attached depending upon the device used is a creative way for the legal department, but it's hard to implement network-wise. The only thing would be that Cingular only allows connecting via pre-authenticated EMEI-identified phones. Haven't heard yet that they do this to their customers. The alternate way would be to log the EMEI, decode (if that's at all possible) what device it is, and later sue your customer. (If that's their strategy, I guess that they had help from some SCO managers on the dole ;) ) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Bartłomiej Zdanowski DRP AC2 wrote: I asked my colleagues for a solution. For non-existent or disabled GPRS connection our devices use SMS messages for reporting current status and position. That's the solution! Let thief pay for data transmission :-) well, of course. didn't think of that. how was that with the forest and the trees? :) you can pack a lot of information into 160bytes - it doesn't have to be human-readable - and SMS are almost realtime as long as the provider doesn't have problems. and if you have an sms-email-gateway somewhere that solves the problem where to send the data (since your phone is gone). IMO sms should be the standard-method, because it should always work. Christian. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
[EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): Locking the phone and receiving GPS position is great but how do you find your Neo in a crowd when the thief as it in is pocket. I would add 2 more options to the list. It was solved a few answers ago via bluetooth. How will you detect the bluetooth stolen name if you don't have a phone anymore ?. Not all phones have bluetooth and not everybody uses it. Bluetooth enable phones don't look for devices indefinitely and bluetooth is not always on and being on all the time is considered a security hole. So i wonder how someone loosing or getting is Neo stolen can retrieve it via bluetooth without having to get a bluetooth phone or enabled device capable of reading the tag. The idea is great and should be kept but how don't see myself running to the closest cellphone dealer to get a 50$ bluetooth enable cellphone to pinpoint my 400$ Neo. Sounds illogical to me ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Bartłomiej Zdanowski DRP AC2 writes: I like the idea. I agree with Cayco, that you cannot ask police to catch the thief. But sending coords would be very interesting solution. As the GPS coords may be not very accurate I'd extend the idea to bluetooth connection which is a very short range, to point person who owns the stolen phone. The phone might change it's bluetooth device name to some special string (like stolen NEO :-) ) so we might detect it in a short range and point person who owns it. And when your bluetooth headset gets near enough it could start screaming help! I'm stolen! at the top of its 1 watt lungs :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New site about open mobiles: ideas and suggestions
Ole Tange has provided a Xvid video of the FOSDEM OpenMoko speech by Sean. I have uploaded it to the MobiLiberty.com and Archive.org. It's a 350MB file so Archive.org is probably a better option since their bandwidth is more redundant than ours. :) Here are the links: http://www.archive.org/details/OpenMoko_speech_FOSDEM2007_video (recommended) http://www.mobiliberty.com/files/SNV38175.AVI And the post on MobiLiberty entry: http://www.mobiliberty.com/sean_moss_putz_openmoko_speech_fosdem_2007 Regards Danijel On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 06:15:31 + Danijel Orsolic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings everyone A few weeks ago I have announced an idea about a web site that would focus on open mobile communications and related devices, like OpenMoko's Neo1973, offering a friendly entrance point for the general population and curious geeks which are not developers in this area to the world of open Free Software and Free Standards powered mobiles. The site is being built at http://www.MobiLiberty.com and at this point we you are offered a chance to make your suggestions and ideas and hence possibly influence what the final site will look like. All Libervis Network sites have been developed with welcome community input from the very start, without development happening behind the closed doors and then being opened up at the launch date. You can participate in shaping this one up too. Feel free to visit http://www.mobiliberty.com/shaping_concept to see where we are currently standing with ideas and concepts and make your own suggestions, ideas, questions, anything. :) On a sidenote, we are here and there are some hosting resources to be spared, so if you believe that it would be a good idea to host something related to OpenMoko (and further) on a third party site, you can make your suggestions known here about that as well. I really wish for this site to be a valuable addition to the community and maybe even a movemen that is forming behind the concept of Free Software/Free Standards powered mobile devices. Best regards Danijel Orsolic http://www.libervis.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
this also looks like these things can be categorized into different groups. First, there are events or situations that set off the stolen-mode (such as wrong pin, owner sending a message to the phone, possibly even getting close to a gps coordinate, etc.). Then there are actions to be taken: emit noise, turn off calling features, phone home, send email home, broadcast message over bluetooth, etc. Then, it's just a matter of letting the user determine which actions to kick off when an event occurs, which should be pretty simple to configure/understand for even the non-tech savy users. Semi-related: Does anyone know of a page on the wiki that deals with this anti-theft discussion? Perhaps someone could add a page if it doesn't? (I don't know how restricted the wiki is). It seems like a good place to keep track of the ideas in addition to this list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 11:13 -0500, Christopher Tokarczyk wrote: Semi-related: Does anyone know of a page on the wiki that deals with this anti-theft discussion? Perhaps someone could add a page if it doesn't? (I don't know how restricted the wiki is). It seems like a good place to keep track of the ideas in addition to this list. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Tracking_lost_phone (I think I created that page same day I mailed idea, but should have done other way around: create page and then mail ;-) -- Aloril [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 15:09:47 Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: 2007/2/28, Bartłomiej Zdanowski DRP AC2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi. That's the solution! Let thief pay for data transmission :-) How about silently calling 0700 and othe highly price erotic phone lines? Improving on the idea: get someone to operate one of those 0900 numbers in each country (usualy they dont really work cross country very well) who will then give the proceeds to the owner of the stolen phone so he can buy a new one... Or even just sending over priced SMS, that's even less obvious. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarification: ETel social gathering
I've been reminded to point out that this is open to everyone, not only ETel attendees If you can not join us for dinner, you are more than welcome to join us later for drinks. You are welcome to call me to confirm our location and how much longer we'll be there, in case you have a long drive and want to make sure we'll still be there when you arrive. My phone number is on the wiki on the event page M On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Sean suggested we meet for dinner on Thursday, then carry on to the bar later. You are welcome whenever, but please let us know on the wiki so we can reserve the appropriate size table http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ETel#Social_Gathering 2. I took a video of Sean's presentation this morning. Sean has the tapes and will upload as soon as he can. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Once the phone goes into Stolen Mode the Bluetooth radio could be turned on continuously. You don't need to use another phone to detect Bluetooth, many laptops (most Macs) have built-in BT and if they don't you can get a dongle. -Aaron On Feb 28, 2007, at 7:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): Locking the phone and receiving GPS position is great but how do you find your Neo in a crowd when the thief as it in is pocket. I would add 2 more options to the list. It was solved a few answers ago via bluetooth. How will you detect the bluetooth stolen name if you don't have a phone anymore ?. Not all phones have bluetooth and not everybody uses it. Bluetooth enable phones don't look for devices indefinitely and bluetooth is not always on and being on all the time is considered a security hole. So i wonder how someone loosing or getting is Neo stolen can retrieve it via bluetooth without having to get a bluetooth phone or enabled device capable of reading the tag. The idea is great and should be kept but how don't see myself running to the closest cellphone dealer to get a 50$ bluetooth enable cellphone to pinpoint my 400$ Neo. Sounds illogical to me ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
This seems like it would encourage the thief to destroy the phone, remember, he/she stole it it isn't worth much to them. Now if the audible message were something like, I'M LOST, HELP ME FIND MY OWNER the the thief might be guilted into giving the phone back and might not be as likely to smash the thing under their heal. An option would be to have the owner record what ever message they want. On Feb 28, 2007, at 6:22 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This way not only will the thief will be surprised it would obviously alarm everyone around him and the only way to turn the msg off would be to remove the battery. Either way the thief would stand out from the crowd and be more easy to spot. *Better yet why not modify the phone to incorporate a small watch battery under a screwed cover to keep the Stolen Mode active even if the thief manages to pry open the back panel and remove the primary battery. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
A new approach to Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
A lot of ideas have been written on anti theft protection, but much of it from a geek/user's standpoint, and almost completely forgetting the possible ramifications of the suggested techniques. First of all, none of the techniques presented PROTECT your phone from being stolen (they fall more to the find-your-lost-phone category). Second, in most countries I know of you cannot act on your own without the help/presence of law enforcement persons. Although this may sound strange and ineffective at first, it makes a lot of sense from a police perspective. What would you do if you confronted a criminal who stole your phone ? What if he is dangerous ? What if you get hurt in the process ? What if the person who has the phone and whom you are shouting at/calling a thief is actually innocent and knows nothing of the origin of the phone ? Which brings us to the next concern - stolen phones usually do not get regularly used by the persons who actually stole them, and most certainly not used by their money - their SIMs are just as stolen. They might drain your account with expensive calls, but chances are high that the phone will soon get sold through ads and/or ebay. If the persons in charge do this 'professionally' they will surely flash the phone (the Neo1973 is here at a little advantage by not being a widespread/common phone). Thus there is no guarantee that you are spending the thiefs money - in fact, it is much more probable that you are tracking and wasting an unsuspecting victims money. How would you feel if you bought a slightly used Neo1973 only to find out that it is sending expensive foreign/roaming SMS-es because the previous owner 'forgot' to turn off a silent alarm/anti theft application ? As you can see the problem of phone theft is not that simple as relaying coordinates back to yourself - a much broader topic must be analysed to tackle this issue - and although the GPS might help a little, it is not really a silver bullet in this matter. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Le mercredi 28 février 2007 à 18:00 +0100, Gabriel Ambuehl a écrit : snip Improving on the idea: get someone to operate one of those 0900 numbers in each country (usualy they dont really work cross country very well) who will then give the proceeds to the owner of the stolen phone so he can buy a new one... Or even just sending over priced SMS, that's even less obvious. snip That's exactly what I'm thinking too :-) Globally, the idea to protect the phone against the theft has already been expressed many time before: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/002910.html And even much more before (12 Dec 2006): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000748.html It could be good to summarize on the wiki all these ideas expressed before on this mailing list (google: site:openmoko.org phone thief). It seem to me that two ideas are news: - the overtaxed calling number (for the profit of the victim) - bluetooth localisation (with the headset or another phone) Regards, ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
True but most cellphone get lost mostly on the bus, metro, restaurants,etc. Misplacing the phone home is not as dramatic as losing it in a public place. Looking for it with your laptop at home maybe the solution but is it most viable for the metro or the restaurant or any public places ?What i don't like is the idea that a must pay to find my lost phone. Sure it's better to pay a small amount and recover your phone but i don't find the idea practical.- Original Message -From: Aaron Coats [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 2:38 pmSubject: Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protectionTo: community@lists.openmoko.org Once the phone goes into Stolen Mode the Bluetooth radio could be turned on continuously. You don't need to use another phone to detect Bluetooth, many laptops (most Macs) have built-in BT and if they don't you can get a dongle. -Aaron On Feb 28, 2007, at 7:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:[EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): Locking the phone and receiving GPS position is great but how do you find your Neo in a crowd when the thief as it in is pocket. I would add 2 more options to the list. It was solved a few answers ago via bluetooth. How will you detect the bluetooth stolen name if you don't have aphone anymore ?. Not all phones have bluetooth and not everybody uses it. Bluetooth enable phones don't look for devicesindefinitely and bluetooth is not always on and being on all thetime is considered a security hole. So i wonder how someone loosingor getting is Neo stolen can retrieve it via bluetooth withouthaving to get a bluetooth phone or enabled device capable ofreading the tag. The idea is great and should be kept but how don't see myselfrunning to the closest cellphone dealer to get a 50$ bluetoothenable cellphone to pinpoint my 400$ Neo. Sounds illogical to me ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Aaron Coats writes: This seems like it would encourage the thief to destroy the phone, remember, he/she stole it it isn't worth much to them. Now if the Remember, my version of the stolen behavior called for the phone to pretend it's a brick (while sending SMS messages giving its position, as somebody else suggested), and not crying for help until it's *within* range of the owner's bluetooth. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
I think the disagreement over what the phone ideally should do when stolen is even more support for the proposition that there should be a way for the owner to configure this behavior. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A new approach to Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Caveat emptor. Possession of stolen property is still a crime where I live, even if you didn't do the actual stealing. That said, I agree that attempting to rack up a large bill will not prevent theft nor lead to the return of the phone. Any anti-theft mechanisms should focus on locating the phone. We could maybe have the option of disabling the phone. But the only way to disable this open-source phone would be with some hardware lock. I don't particularly like the idea that my phone could be locked. Even if it should only happen to a thief, if it has the capability, it could be abused. We're treading too closely to the blasphemous idea of trusted computing. -Steven On 2/28/07, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of ideas have been written on anti theft protection, but much of it from a geek/user's standpoint, and almost completely forgetting the possible ramifications of the suggested techniques. First of all, none of the techniques presented PROTECT your phone from being stolen (they fall more to the find-your-lost-phone category). Second, in most countries I know of you cannot act on your own without the help/presence of law enforcement persons. Although this may sound strange and ineffective at first, it makes a lot of sense from a police perspective. What would you do if you confronted a criminal who stole your phone ? What if he is dangerous ? What if you get hurt in the process ? What if the person who has the phone and whom you are shouting at/calling a thief is actually innocent and knows nothing of the origin of the phone ? Which brings us to the next concern - stolen phones usually do not get regularly used by the persons who actually stole them, and most certainly not used by their money - their SIMs are just as stolen. They might drain your account with expensive calls, but chances are high that the phone will soon get sold through ads and/or ebay. If the persons in charge do this 'professionally' they will surely flash the phone (the Neo1973 is here at a little advantage by not being a widespread/common phone). Thus there is no guarantee that you are spending the thiefs money - in fact, it is much more probable that you are tracking and wasting an unsuspecting victims money. How would you feel if you bought a slightly used Neo1973 only to find out that it is sending expensive foreign/roaming SMS-es because the previous owner 'forgot' to turn off a silent alarm/anti theft application ? As you can see the problem of phone theft is not that simple as relaying coordinates back to yourself - a much broader topic must be analysed to tackle this issue - and although the GPS might help a little, it is not really a silver bullet in this matter. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Global MVNO listing
Not sure if this URL passed thru the list before, but I think it is germain to some of the discussions that have been taking place here recently. http://www.telecompaper.com/research/mvnos/ Alan McSwain mail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: OpenMoko workshop at ETel
On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 08:49 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later. That's wonderful news Sean! Could you clarify: are there going to be two 'Phases 1' - one for developers at the end of March and the second on June? Could you tell us something about discount for those who buy early Phase1 devices and then want to buy next generation dev? Sorry but we haven't figured all this out yet. I promise to update everyone at the earliest date possible. (For sure before we start selling phase 1 phones)... -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A new approach to Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 21:29, kkr wrote: out that it is sending expensive foreign/roaming SMS-es because the previous owner 'forgot' to turn off a silent alarm/anti theft application Is the same for car alarm... When you sold something, you do have to do the necessary action (in other case, you're too responsive for the damage) It seems I have been a bit too cryptic - I put the word forgot in '' exactly because that way a Neo seller can fraud you by _intentionally_ doing this. Image the suggestion in a previous message in this context: overtaxed calling number (for the profit of the victim). If someone sells you a phone with that enabled _on purpose_, so he would get both the price of the phone AND some money frauded from the unsuspecting buyer (and claim later that he either did not get any money or that the theft alarm was not on on purpose). If he does this on a small scale, he could even get away unnoticed for months or years sipping a few $ per month from the real victim which is in that case the new owner of the phone. That's one of the main reasons why proactive theft reactions, especially financial, are NOT really an option. In this case, when you buy on ebay, you do have to receive the prove that the phone is not stolen, in other case (even if I'm not a lower), the buyer is too in fault... Since in our case it is already a second hand item proof of purchase is not readily available on most of the ebay items in that category - not many customers keep the papers, or even boxes that came with the phone. Sure, you can say that it is unwise or even illegal, but many of the used items on ebay have absolutely no 'proof of ownership' (do you ask proof of ownership on a garage sale or a flea market ?). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A new approach to Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 21:44, Steven ** wrote: Caveat emptor. Possession of stolen property is still a crime where I live, even if you didn't do the actual stealing. All I'm saying (IANAL of course) that for many of those items (especially on places like ebay) it is very hard for the buyer to establish whether the good is actually stolen or not (receipts and boxes can be photoshopped all too easy), and he has to rely on a level of reasonable doubt (based on seller rating, price, provided images, etc) to determine whether he is getting the good from a trustworthy source. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: OpenMoko workshop at ETel
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, denis wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb: On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 17:02 -0500, Alan Ide wrote: So, I am a little confused still. Are you saying the Refreshed version of the Neo that will be released in June will have A faster CPU, dedicated Graphics Acceleration, AND Wifi?? If so, thats a hell of an upgrade after 3 months. The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Thank you for the clear statement. Ok your are not a normal hardware manufacturer. :) We need a place on the wiki to capture quotes like this. The approach FIC is taking with OpenMoko is incredibly unusual, and I think will be an important part of success of the project. People trying to understand the essence of OpenMoko (No, it's not just a new cellphone) need to understand this as well. The success of OpenMoko has very little to do with whether the Neo 1973 is better than the iPhone, and everything to do with whether people understand Sean's vision. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Linux Forum Copenhagen
On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 08:32 +0100, Martin Heick Hansen wrote: First let me introduce myself since this is my first post. I've been following OpenMoko and the mailing list for the last month or so. Then I started to wonder why nobody in Denmark new anything about this revolution which is starting to evolve. I felt that this we have to do something about. Thanks! Please everyone _help_ us scale ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Bluetooth Headset - Voice Commands
I know we never came to an official conclusion on the voice command question, but I'm going to intentionally jump ahead and ask another question concerning Bluetooth. So for the sake of the question, lets assume we have a program called VoiceControl that handles taking spoken commands and taking appropriate action...and we'll assume its an awesome program too. When there is no call currently in progress, can we press the button on the headset and have that do two things. First, route the audio input and output to the Bluetooth headset and secondly call VoiceControl? That way when driving/walking I could have the phone docked/cradled/in my pocket and when I wanted to make a phone call, I could simply press the bluetooth headset button and say Call [whoever] and the phone automatically dial [whoever]. The reason that I ask is that on my PocketPC phone (iMate PDA2K), there is supposedly a hardware limitation that will not allow for this to occur. It can have the bluetooth headset button initiate the program, but it cannot use the bluetooth headset to transfer the audio to the program. It has to use the built-in microphone for routing audio to the voice command software. I don't remember specifics, but I think it was because the bluetooth module tied to the gsm module in hardware or something along those lines. All of that to ask, is the bluetooth implementation on this device going to have that same limitation? I was looking through the wiki and noticed the bluetooth is connected to the USB Host Controller...so I am hopeful it won't suffer the same limitation. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
DSP, Yet Another HW wish list item :-)
Lurking her more than a while, I strangely not seen this HW request. A reasonably general digital signal processor on the phone. Opening possibility's for all kind of things. accelerated decoders/encoders for audio and video, voice recognition and fingerprint, 2D graphic acceleration, 3D graphic acceleration, accelerated image (think gimp filters) or just any advanced operation... or just making up for missing FPU. While probably more power hungry then respective dedicated chip, it's probably a lot more efficient then the ordinary CPU... and more powerful and flexible. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: DSP, Yet Another HW wish list item :-)
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Lars Hallberg wrote: Lurking her more than a while, I strangely not seen this HW request. A reasonably general digital signal processor on the phone. Opening possibility's for all kind of things. accelerated decoders/encoders for audio and video, voice recognition and fingerprint, 2D graphic acceleration, 3D graphic acceleration, accelerated image (think gimp filters) or just any advanced operation... or just making up for missing FPU. While probably more power hungry then respective dedicated chip, it's probably a lot more efficient then the ordinary CPU... and more powerful and flexible. Welcome Lars! I'm pretty sure it was discussed extensively. Have you checked the mailing list archives? Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DSP, Yet Another HW wish list item :-)
Lars... Enabling perhaps a personal home dialup internet gateway via a GSM voice connection? (If the mobile operators tighten their grips on authorized GPRS traffic?) (If your mobile operators don't offer prepaid access to GPRS/internet period?) Alan Lurking her more than a while, I strangely not seen this HW request. A reasonably general digital signal processor on the phone. Opening possibility's for all kind of things. accelerated decoders/encoders for audio and video, voice recognition and fingerprint, 2D graphic acceleration, 3D graphic acceleration, accelerated image (think gimp filters) or just any advanced operation... or just making up for missing FPU. While probably more power hungry then respective dedicated chip, it's probably a lot more efficient then the ordinary CPU... and more powerful and flexible. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
Christopher Tokarczyk writes: I think the disagreement over what the phone ideally should do when stolen is even more support for the proposition that there should be a way for the owner to configure this behavior. In addition, it would be very useful if the phone was reconfigurable *after* it was stolen. It would be very frustrating to have a good idea and then not be able to implement it because the phone could only be programed while having physical access to it. Personally I like the idea of periodic SMS messages with the lat/lon/altitude. When in stolen mode, having the phone receive SMS msgs containing commands for the phone would seem to be very useful. Something as simple as having a way of remotely submitting a short shell script would do the trick. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko-devel posting problems
I have previously posted to the community and openmoko-devel lists without problems. Posted a message to -devel last night and again earlier today, and neither has showed up on the list in my in-box, nor in the archives, although others have. I can log in to the subscriber pages for all the lists to which I am subscribed. There seems to be a gap in the -devel archives between Mon Feb 26 21:18:43 CEST 2007, the last February date, and Thu Mar 1 01:21:34 CEST 2007. Has anyone else encountered these problems? Phil ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth Headset - Voice Commands
On 2/28/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reason that I ask is that on my PocketPC phone (iMate PDA2K), there is supposedly a hardware limitation that will not allow for this to occur. It can have the bluetooth headset button initiate the program, but it cannot use the bluetooth headset to transfer the audio to the program. It has to use the built-in microphone for routing audio to the voice command software. I don't remember specifics, but I think it was because the bluetooth module tied to the gsm module in hardware or something along those lines. All of that to ask, is the bluetooth implementation on this device going to have that same limitation? I was looking through the wiki and noticed the bluetooth is connected to the USB Host Controller...so I am hopeful it won't suffer the same limitation. I'm going out on a limb here and hypothesizing again, however it may shed some light: My understanding of how the OpenMoko software stack works, is that it will be using some a software audio routing interface, either direct ALSA or gstreamer (tied into ALSA as the audio access method). The audio can go between the mic/speaker thru the wolfson codec, or you can switch it to the bluetooth device. By being connected to the USB bus, this works exactly like every current Linux computer with bluetooth: as of now, the BlueZ stack can do SCO / headset, and they are working daily on properly working A2DP (advanced audio) stereo codec support both as alsa modules. It would then be my guess, that all the OpenMoko software would have to do, is change the alsa input/output by responding handsfree button or avrcp commands (for stereo headsets). Furthermore, it is definitely plausible that the bluetooth controller in your pocketpc is somehow intertwined with the GSM chipset. If this chip has no provision of routing audio into the software, and only considers bluetooth a voice service, then it would talk directly to the wireless interface and its GSM chip. The windows mobile/ppc software can't grab it. Please keep in mind, this is speculation, however knowing how my linuxbox works with bluetooth audio is the background for my educated guess :) The pocketpc routing is probable, but again speculation. If I'm wrong, please let me know :) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
