Re: T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED]
to, 2007-08-16 kello 23:09 -0400, Richard Boehme kirjoitti: Does anyone know how we can get the GTA02 onto this program? It seems like we would be a natural fit, as GTA02 has Wi-Fi. Can any one just contact T-Mobile about it and apply for developer status and say that we want to be a part of the Hotsopt at Home program? There was someone interested in doing that on the #openmoko channel once, and I believe he found out that handover to/from wifi would require access to protocols that the GSM chip doesn't (at least documentedly) provide. One of those things for which you'd want the GSM firmware source... Apparently you'd still need something like a SIP provider that would allow you to route calls to a GSM number if you want to be transparently reachable via both wifi and GSM. None of this fanciness required, of course, for simply having your calls initiate via wifi when available, but then you'll lose the call if you wonder out of range. I believe I saw someone starting work on that on #openmoko. Disclaimer: I'm relaying this information from memory, and don't have personal experience or knowledge of the GSM side of this matter. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 8/16/07, Richard Boehme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know how we can get the GTA02 onto this program? It seems like we would be a natural fit, as GTA02 has Wi-Fi. Can any one just contact T-Mobile about it and apply for developer status and say that we want to be a part of the Hotsopt at Home program? This service requires a UMA/GAN capable phone; I do not believe the TI chipset used by the Neo has this ability. I know more people are probably going to jump on the wifi calling bit, but UMA is decidedly a network-provided service. Whereas wifi calling can be made anywhere with wifi using any SIP provider (of course, the unknown quality of service anywhere not withstanding), actually handing over from GSM to UMA isnt going to happen unless the GSM modem and device software both support it / your operator enables the feature on your account. The alternatives (hosted asterisk providers and the like, doing PBX stuff for you) are out there, but none directly interacting with your cell number. My plan: on my hosted virtual private server (a Xen instance on an 8-core opteron somewhere) I will be setting up asterisk for myself, integrating into it a menu that prompts for voicemail, ring me cos its an emergency, or whatnot, and then based on time of day / call blast lists, it will try and find me. This I plan to use before I get my moko. There should be some way while I'm talking to hit say, #, and get a menu to 'transfer to home/ transfer to #' at which point i could hit that, and hang up my cell; my landline will be ringing soon with the call. With the moko, I am not sure what would be better; either using a SIP client on the moko to link with my 1 asterisk server, or a second asterisk instance on the moko itself, linking with the main asterisk server, and also being used for GSM calls. (I believe this is doable at some point, linking an onboard asterisk process with the gsm audio/signaling, stop me if im wrong!) Heres a few good reads: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/06/27/t-mobile-goes-national-with-hotspot-home-wifi-calling/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network I have yet to read much on Asterisk; that will be a weekend project here soon :) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Release schedule GTA-2
I was wondering when the GTA-2 Neo comes out. Before GTA-1 everyone said it would be October, but after a while it became September. Some wiki pages are still saying September, others October. Is openMoko in September ready for an early mass market release? I'm reading a lot of positive reactions on the mailinglist, but actually nothing about the release schedule. I know there are in The Netherlands quite some people anxious to have one (but only the non-developer type, the GTA-2). Is there some information about the status of the software? Is one month enough for you, developers, to make openMoko ready for the mass market? I hope there will be some more information available. I haven't seen anything on the announce mailinglists and the wiki does not contain a roadmap. I can understand there will be reactions like it's ready when it's ready, but many people like to know a global roadmap of what they can expect. Thanks, Jurian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Message duplicates (was: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?)
On Friday 17 August 2007 07:06, Harald Welte wrote: And 'some mail admin' is unfortunately just me. Ever considered using one of the OSS hosting sites such as Sourceforge or one of the many others? That could offload quit some admin issues, even when it's only used for mailinglists and bugtracking... There is a list on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_hosting_facilities AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there plans to provide a car adapter for the Neo? This is a general problem. Where are USB-Power Adator out there. Also for cars. But most of them just power the 5V line. This is bad with 99% of the bad behaving usb gadgets out there. But Neo is prolite and asks the host if it could draw it's 500mA and if not only takes 100mA out of the bus. This is how the usb specs tell you to do it. But most devices (like usb microovens and the like) just draw power as there would be no tomorrow and don't care how much the host can privice. If your usb-powersupply burns out - bummer. :) So the solutions are: A smart usb power supply. (Never seen any. But should not be so bard to build) A button that puts your Neo in the same i don't care about specs or your usb interface asshole mode other deivces use and just draws it's power. (No idea if that would even work. But i think it might) Has anyone ever seen a smart usb power supply? Maybe the ipod psu? (I could check this some time) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Release schedule GTA-2
On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 12:39:14PM +0200, thus spake Jurian Sluiman: I was wondering when the GTA-2 Neo comes out. Before GTA-1 everyone said it would be October, but after a while it became September. Some wiki pages are still saying September, others October. Is openMoko in September ready for an early mass market release? Isn't September an old estimate, before Sean's New Oceans email? That email (on June 27th) said October and I thought that was still the plan now. However, I must say it seems to me personally that October is looking very optimistic at this point...my money would be on January or February. (And I mean for a reasonably consumer-ready hardware + software stack...perhaps the hardware will be ready by October, but I don't think the software will be.) But hopefully people on the inside know more than I do about all the good progress being made! I'm not an openmoko developer, just a very interested follower on this list eagerly awaiting the chance to buy a GTA02 Neo... Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Message duplicates (was: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?)
On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 01:06:53PM +0800, thus spake Harald Welte: [...] It's actually a crashing spamassassin, which then causes the DATA section of an incoming SMTP transfer to time out, which again causes some sending email servers, such as gmail, who have a short timeout, to transfer the message again. I see. So it sounds like a spamassassin bug? If there isn't a bug fix available to download, I'm not sure what's the best thing to do about it. Perhaps the list software could be configured to accept a message if spamassassin crashes? Since we haven't seen a lot of spam duplicated to the list like we've seen normal messages, doing this probably wouldn't start letting a lot of spam through to the list. And a question for anyone: do you know whether most MTAs use timeouts longer than RFC 2821 suggests? (See section 4.5.3.2 of http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html for minimum timeouts.) I'm pretty sure Gmail doesn't use shorter timeouts, but since it's the main source of duplicated messages that makes me wonder if everyone else jacks up the timeouts by a bunch. And 'some mail admin' is unfortunately just me. We all know you're overworked and overstressed, and we all appreciate everything you do very much! Thanks for taking a bit of time to look into this. If the spamassassin crashes could be prevented or worked around somehow, that would be a great solution to this problem. Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tilman Baumann wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there plans to provide a car adapter for the Neo? This is a general problem. Where are USB-Power Adator out there. Also for cars. But most of them just power the 5V line. This is bad with 99% of the bad behaving usb gadgets out there. But Neo is prolite and asks the host if it could draw it's 500mA and if not only takes 100mA out of the bus. This is how the usb specs tell you to do it. But most devices (like usb microovens and the like) just draw power as there would be no tomorrow and don't care how much the host can privice. If your usb-powersupply burns out - bummer. :) Don't know if I understood right. Do you mean, the Neo asks the power supply how much power it's able to provide? Why should the Neo do this? Like I described below I guess the Neo uses the 5V channel only for charging, and so the 500mA are always okay. Why not use a normal 500mA power supply then? The USB specification only guarantees 100ma available to each client-mode device (in theory the Neo can be host or client, though currently only client mode is functional). If a device wants to draw more power it is required to ask permission from the host/hub. Many simple [non-compliant] devices skip this step and just assume that they can draw as much power as they want, which leads to problems of overloading the host/hub. The Neo will not draw more than 100ma until it has gotten permission. There is one exception - the neo can detect its own 'dumb' charger by the presence of 48kOhm resistance between USB pin 5 and ground. In this case the power mgmt unit will allow the full 500ma power draw. So if you have a decently noise-free 5V USB car charger, it would be fairly simple to solder in a 48k resistor (note that it should be low-tolerance - 1%) and have the neo pull 500mA for fast charging. As for forcing the neo to ignore USB power negotiation, I don't know if this is a kernel driver issue (hackable) or a USB chipset issue (less hackable)... -Rusty A button that puts your Neo in the same i don't care about specs or your usb interface asshole mode other deivces use and just draws it's power. (No idea if that would even work. But i think it might) Does this mean, if we push this button, it's not possible anymore to use a second USB device at the same time? I guess that doesn't change anything because if I understood right, the 5V channel is used only for charging the Neo, (No power output for attached devices) what is the reason for why we need those external powered USB hub. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Thank you for that wonderful explanation! BTW: Where is my own e-mail in the list? I still did not receive it, but it seems you did?! Somethings strange in that list... Am I right that I would need to solder some more things to make this whole construction work? I mean, I have to spend these 5V to the Neo for charging, and still need the other pins for transferring data from the USB drive to the Neo. So I would have to split the cable, right? Rusty Chris wrote: device (in theory the Neo can be host or client, though currently only client mode is functional). *But this feature will hopefully be added in GTA2?* If a device wants to draw more power it is required to ask permission from the host/hub. Many simple [non-compliant] devices skip this step and just assume that they can draw as much power as they want, which leads to problems of overloading the host/hub. The Neo will not draw more than 100ma until it has gotten permission. There is one exception - the neo can detect its own 'dumb' charger by the presence of 48kOhm resistance between USB pin 5 and ground. In this case the power mgmt unit will allow the full 500ma power draw. So if you have a decently noise-free 5V USB car charger, it would be fairly simple to solder in a 48k resistor (note that it should be low-tolerance - 1%) and have the neo pull 500mA for fast charging. As for forcing the neo to ignore USB power negotiation, I don't know if this is a kernel driver issue (hackable) or a USB chipset issue (less hackable)... -Rust ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Brad Midgley wrote: Hi But most of them just power the 5V line. This is bad with 99% of the bad behaving usb gadgets out there. But Neo is prolite and asks the host if it could draw it's 500mA and if not only takes 100mA out of the bus. this excessive politeness rules out hand-crank charger, solar cell, battery-to-usb, and every auto-usb adapter out there. It's overkill. the usb spec requires the hub to reply to the request for more power. no reply within xx ms means there is no hub to ask. At this point it should be pragmatic and just use the @#* 500mA. I tried to hunt this down in the source and I think it's in two places--uboot when off and the kernel when on. It was very hard to figure out who drives the control. Three places. There is hardware policy, which is set by uboot/the kernel, in the power control chip. Well - four places - some of it is configured by resistors on the board. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Hi But most of them just power the 5V line. This is bad with 99% of the bad behaving usb gadgets out there. But Neo is prolite and asks the host if it could draw it's 500mA and if not only takes 100mA out of the bus. this excessive politeness rules out hand-crank charger, solar cell, battery-to-usb, and every auto-usb adapter out there. It's overkill. the usb spec requires the hub to reply to the request for more power. no reply within xx ms means there is no hub to ask. At this point it should be pragmatic and just use the @#* 500mA. I tried to hunt this down in the source and I think it's in two places--uboot when off and the kernel when on. It was very hard to figure out who drives the control. brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for that wonderful explanation! BTW: Where is my own e-mail in the list? I still did not receive it, but it seems you did?! Somethings strange in that list... Am I right that I would need to solder some more things to make this whole construction work? I mean, I have to spend these 5V to the Neo for charging, and still need the other pins for transferring data from the USB drive to the Neo. So I would have to split the cable, right? Or buy one from a vendor. (coming soon) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Issues getting started
On 17 Aug 2007, at 21:30, Casten wrote Without having made any changes, I am wondering if I should just scrap Fedora. I really don't care which distro I use. My goal is just to get up and compiling and running. Ubuntu was a doddle to get running. It's whatever you're comfy with really. I've used Kubuntu and Gentoo the most. I don't like RPM at all. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I right that I would need to solder some more things to make this whole construction work? I mean, I have to spend these 5V to the Neo for charging, and still need the other pins for transferring data from the USB drive to the Neo. So I would have to split the cable, right? I recently bought an APC UPB10 portable USB battery -- see http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UPB10 When the Neo gets its kernel support for USB host mode, I'm going to try to wire it up as an auxiliary power source for USB peripherals like thumb drives. Look at this picture: http://www.apc.com/products/moreimages.cfm?partnum=UPB10aPos=5 As you will see, it has a female mini-B socket from which it charges itself, and a female full-size A socket to which it supplies power. Right now I haven't figured out how it's internally wired -- whether the data lines on those two sockets go anywhere. I'd like to wire them together (as a sort of USB-thru adapter), and also build a mini-B to mini-B cable with the power lines disconnected. With this setup, in theory, I could put the Neo in host mode, hook the custom cable up to the Neo and the battery brick, and plug a thumb drive directly into the power brick. The thumb drive would get power from the brick and at the same time the data lines would go through to the Neo. I don't know whether this will function as I hope, but I'm going to give it a shot. I'll put something on the wiki (and post again here) if it works out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: compile problem: OOM when compiling
On 17 Aug 2007 14:48:05 +0200, Andreas Jellinghaus wrote: When compiling busybox (from memory need to check) cc1 started eating 900M and soon my system was no longer useable. I tried this several times last I had the same thing using Feisty. The busybox compile just needs way more memory than I had, so the system started swapping like crazy and locked. After upgrading RAM from 512MB to 1.5GB it ran fine. Dave pgpoeLJxGHfe2.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
