Re: Some feedback from using the neo as a phone for a day

2007-10-18 Thread Björn Martensen

On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 20:05 -0500, Mark Arvidson wrote:
 
  UI:
  - The current keyboard is highly unusable. I know it's intended to be
  used with a stylus, and it's fine for that, but it's completely
  unreasonable to expect a user to have a stylus for activities like
  SMS, or entering a new contact. And even with pretty small fingers
  it's pretty hard for me to type on the keyboard.
 
 I totally agree.  I can sometimes hit the right key with my
 fingernail, but backspace is difficult.  The keys also have quite a
 bit of dead space between them, so you have to hit it right on.

I know, not another iPhone comparison, but it seems that the iPhone's
keyboard is actually usable and i hope to get something similar with the
neo, so how about a cleaner keyboard with less and bigger keys? Is it
even possible on the smaller screen of the neo? Maybe the keyboard would
be more usable in landscape mode, detected by the accelerometers, gta02
will have?

  - The dialer application has the hangup button on the top right of
  the screen when in a call. When you actually talk on the phone it's
  _really_ easy to touch that part of the screen with your face, which
  results in 3-4 accidental hangups per call. Oops. :-)
 
 Same here.  Maybe I need to shave closer.

Maybe the hang up action could be reworked to a slide action instead of
a button, like the iPhone (i know... ;D) and qtopia have for locking the
phone. Like in qtopia you have to slide a key into a lock, you could
have to move a phone onto the base part (sorry, don't know the correct
english terms of those parts atm...)

greets,
Björn


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Neo to act as a bluetooth remote control?

2007-10-18 Thread Björn Martensen
Hi,
I'm sorry if this is somewhere in the wiki already, but i don't have an
internet connection atm as i'm moving and can only send and receive some
email once a day, so i'd like to ask this: Are there any plans to make
the Neo a usable bluetooth remote control for a media center pc for
example? As there aren't any restrictions to hardware buttons, you could
really create some nice rc, imho.

greets,
Björn


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Re: Neo1973 drawings

2007-10-18 Thread Alexey Feldgendler

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:33:12 +0200, Doug Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Would be great if somebody did a really thorough job of documenting the  
Neo case.  In other words, disassemble a Neo as described here:


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973

and make nice orthographic images of all the case parts, from all angles  
  --  back, front, edge-on, etc.


As far as I know, the GTA02 case would be different from GTA01 inside,  
though the outer shape doesn't change.



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Re: Neo1973 drawings

2007-10-18 Thread Robin Paulson
On 18/10/2007, Sébastien Lorquet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If someone gives me left-top-front etc views of a neo case... I can try to
 do something with SolidEdge (academic version of SolidWorks). I can't
 promise exactly when, maybe this weekend.

 (And it would be helpful if neo's curves were circles and not complicated
 splines... :D )

i assume solidedge can output in some friendly, non-proprietary format?

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Subject: Re: the volume of this group

2007-10-18 Thread Oliver Uvman
Timbo wrote:
Question 2: Is it possible to pre-order the final version?

Not yet, but subscribe to the announce list to find out when you can.

/Oliver
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Re: Neo1973 drawings

2007-10-18 Thread Sébastien Lorquet
 i assume solidedge can output in some friendly, non-proprietary format?


eh eh eh... not sure...
At least jpeg/png is OK :). I hope it can do DXF or something like that.
I'll check this evening.

Sébastien LORQUET
Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007
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Another question about OpenMoko sourcecode....

2007-10-18 Thread Zalunin Pavel
Where I can get (if I can) OpenMoko archived sources, because I have broken
internet, and I can't download all sources
But I very want to setup OM to my Palm TX:)
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GNUstep/Objective-C SDK for OpenMoko --- jffs2 on MacOS X?

2007-10-18 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Dear all Mac based developers and GTA01 owners,


after Apple has announced an SDK for native applications on the  
iPhone (I assume it will allow to write .app bundles with Xcode), I  
think I should mention (again?) that we are already working on a  
Cocoa compatible Objective-C based SDK for the Neo.  The project is  
called mySTEP/QuantumSTEP (http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php? 
page=About) and is based on GNUstep (with heavy modifications to make  
it work nicely on a FPU-less ARM system).  You can download the SDK  
and track for updates e.g. through Versiontracker: http:// 
www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20581


Together with Xtoolchain you can compile existing (pure Cocoa based)  
applications in just 5 minutes:  you just have to add a Shell Script  
Run Phase to the project target, configure a little and build the  
application.  The result is an .app bundle that includes an ARM-Linux  
binary ready to run on the real hardware (BTW: the resulting ARM  
binaries are typically very small - in the 16-100kByte range).


To really run this bundle on the Neo, a runtime system needs to be  
installed.  This process is currently still quite difficult through  
ssh (and we have in addition some severe show-stopping bugs in the  
first boot phases).  But we intend announce a first snapshot rootfs  
for the GTA01 soon.


For that purpose I have a question:  does anybody know how to create  
a .jffs2 rootfs image directly on MacOS X (without running Open  
Embedded in a VM)?  I have not found a FUSE module.



Nikolaus Schaller

PS: If you are interested in contributing and beta-testing, please  
send me a private mail.



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Buchenstr. 3
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Digital Tools for Independent People
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Re: Some feedback from using the neo as a phone for a day

2007-10-18 Thread Daniel Mewes

On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 21:52 +0200, Josef Wolf wrote:
 Apropos: does the neo have a MMU?

Sure, there's an ARM9 core inside :-)

Regards, Daniel

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Mobile: +49 (0) 160 8577603
Pager: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Neo1973 drawings

2007-10-18 Thread Doug Jones

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:33:12 +0200, Doug Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Would be great if somebody did a really thorough job of documenting 
the Neo case.  In other words, disassemble a Neo as described here:


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973

and make nice orthographic images of all the case parts, from all 
angles   --  back, front, edge-on, etc.


As far as I know, the GTA02 case would be different from GTA01 inside, 
though the outer shape doesn't change.






If this is true, then the GTA02 case should be documented in the same 
way, when we get our hands on it.  (I am planning to do this myself in 
December, if the current schedule holds.)


But the GTA01 should be documented too.  And the sooner this is done, 
the sooner we will be able to finish the designs of things like 
ExpansionBack and ExpansionSpacer, which should work equally well with 
GTA01 and GTA02.


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Re: Neo to act as a bluetooth remote control?

2007-10-18 Thread Pranav Desai
On 10/17/07, Björn Martensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 I'm sorry if this is somewhere in the wiki already, but i don't have an
 internet connection atm as i'm moving and can only send and receive some
 email once a day, so i'd like to ask this: Are there any plans to make
 the Neo a usable bluetooth remote control for a media center pc for
 example? As there aren't any restrictions to hardware buttons, you could
 really create some nice rc, imho.


You might want to give this a try.
http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/btremote/

Its still under development. I will try to clean it up a bit and post
some screenshots maybe later this week.

-- Pranav


 greets,
 Björn

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Re: NetBSD/evbarm NEO1973 netboot (roadmap)

2007-10-18 Thread Noud de Brouwer

Congrats! What are your plans to integrate this and to provide more drivers?



Christos and all,

obvious a certain person needs cvs commit ;) to integrate

plans..what i'd like to see is:

-debug usb_add and my usb_add setup..
i crash after some minutes (but that's just the emulator side)

-debug the boot on real hardware
i don't have any but, 1 person does testboots and has different results.
so far he's done them w/o console, but he's getting closer to his debug 
board,

there maybe having console.

we're now at the point all tooling is there.

-hope to get an X desktop this weekend or at the least know how much
wscons wsdisplay there is using lcd0.

-usb keyboard for wscons wskbd should be there(?)
but usb keyboard on a neo-on-the-go looks a bit odd..so i'll try touch 
screen first


-NAND file system has been mentioned a few times in
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-embed/
and recently in
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/
so i stay off that
whilst .. http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/drivers/mtd/nand/
is a good starting point ;) and would be doable if i succeed the 
touchscreen(?).

but/and mind.. already multiple people have stated they have
private implementations willing to share .. so we could have nand soon

-http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/AUX_button
-http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Button

-(SDHC) sd card
-agps, audio, gsm/gprs

-vibrator, backlight, accelerometer, etcetera

-pkgsrc additions
-pkgsrc/meta-pkgs/openmoko
-pkgsrc/wm/matchbox-moko
-pkgsrc/*/etcetera-moko

think it's an interesting target (personal) machine w/ much modern appliance
so others should join-in. (could be a hackaton subject,
and good pr ..NetBSD endorses OpenMoko and Neo1973 in a week)
--noud

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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread Ortwin Regel
This discussion has been had before. The conclusion was that you should get
a better email app.

On 10/18/07, David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,

 New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still
 new so i'm mainly lurking for now.

 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list
 descriptor
 like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by
 the
 list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to
 sort my mailbox by hand daily.

 David

 p.s. I'm not really a developer, but would be interested in learning about
 how to develop apps or other modules for openmoko.  I did take some
 programming classes in uni (mainly C++), but I find that if I can get a
 handle of syntax, i can figure out the way programs work.Anyways,
 anyone
 have a recommendation where to start (learn)?


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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread Joshua Layne


On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:59:41 -0600, David Shanks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still
 new so i'm mainly lurking for now.
 
 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list
 descriptor
 like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by
 the
 list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to
 sort my mailbox by hand daily.
 
I don't know what you are using to sort your incoming mail, but in exim,
this is very simple.  If you are using a 'real' user account, simply set up
a .forward in your home directory with the following contents:

---
if
  $header_to: CONTAINS lists.openmoko.org
or
  $header_cc: CONTAINS lists.openmoko.org
then
 save $home/Maildir/.Listservs.openmoko/ # use your own path
 finish
endif
---

HTH,
josh


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Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread David Shanks

Hi All,

New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still 
new so i'm mainly lurking for now.


I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list descriptor 
like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by the 
list.
It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to 
sort my mailbox by hand daily.


David

p.s. I'm not really a developer, but would be interested in learning about 
how to develop apps or other modules for openmoko.  I did take some 
programming classes in uni (mainly C++), but I find that if I can get a 
handle of syntax, i can figure out the way programs work.Anyways, anyone 
have a recommendation where to start (learn)? 



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RE: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread David Shanks
OK,  i had setup my filter for addresses that contained community.  Now i've 
made the change as you suggested (dunno why i didn't think to do that).  
Hopefully this works better now.  
This should work as a good test 
And sorry for the foolish question, i feel dumb now 
David 



 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:13:26 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title  Hi 
 David,  just sort your mails by To: community@lists.openmoko.org; is 
 your mailclient able to do this?  hope to help!  Ric   On Thu, 18 Oct 
 2007 14:59:41 -0600 David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Hi All, 
New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  
 Still new so i'm mainly lurking for now.I suppose this is directed to 
 the list moderators/admins.  I was wondering if there is a way to have 
 openmoko or some list  descriptor like community added in front of the 
 subject of the  emails sent out by the list.  It would make sorting my 
 emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced  to sort my mailbox by hand 
 daily.David
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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread Robin Paulson
On 19/10/2007, David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi All,

 New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still
 new so i'm mainly lurking for now.

 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list descriptor
 like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by the
 list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to
 sort my mailbox by hand daily.

this has been discussed to death here, with much flaming and arguing,
and will probably not be done.

the easiest way to do this for yourself, is to set up a folder and a
filter. the filter should look at the 'to address' and re-direct all
those to the openmoko list to that folder, then they will all be
separate from your other inbox mails.

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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread David Lefty Schlesinger
David Shanks wrote:

 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list
 descriptor like community added in front of the subject of the
 emails sent out by the list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced
 to sort my mailbox by hand daily. 
Why don't you use Thunderbird, and simply set up a message filter on the
To: address?

Manual sorting is for people who don't have computers.




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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread Clinton Ebadi
David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list
 descriptor like community added in front of the subject of the
 emails sent out by the list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced
 to sort my mailbox by hand daily.

List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion community.lists.openmoko.org

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