Turning Off The Display

[Thomas Gstädtner]

Hey there,

does somebody know if it is possible to turn off the Neo's display?
Currently only the backlight is disabled and the display still stays on
(what's totally useless and a waste of energy).
I tried to use xset, but the driver seems not to support dpms.
Any hints?
To recognize that the display stays on when the backlight is off you need a
high-contrast background (the screenlock-background has nearby no contrast,
so you won't see it, but you can open the vkeyboard which stays opened even
if the Neo is locked) and a flashlight. :)

Greetings,

thomasg
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Re: Case Schematics

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Gabriel Ambuehl writes:
>On Wednesday 26 December 2007 21:11:18 Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>
>> The main reason IIRC is that some of the chips came with NDAs that
>> prevent us from doing so.
>>
>You have chips in the case? oOOOo

Well, the original request was phrased strangely -- the case wouldn't
*have* schematics!  Presumably what was meant was dimensional drawings
(which also haven't been released, for reasons that escape me).


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Re: Network questions

[Thomas Gstädtner]

My routing looks like this:
PC: eth0=192.168.0.25 usb0=192.168.0.200
Router: 192.168.0.1
Neo: usb0=192.168.0.202

Routes:
Neo: default gw 192.168.0.200 / route to 192.168.0.1 via 192.168.0.200 /
nameserver 192.168.0.1
PC: default gw 192.168.0.1 / route to 192.168.0.1 via eth0 / route to
192.168.0.202 via usb0
Router: route to 192.168.0.202 via 192.168.0.25

Works fine that way.


On 12/23/07, Nicolas Linkert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:15:50 -0500, "Nick Guenther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> said:
> > On Dec 22, 2007 12:38 PM, Nicolas Linkert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am geting confused with the network settings:
> > >
> > > - my PC has IP 192.168.0.2
> > > - my router has IP 192.168.0.1
> > > - my printer has IP 192.168.0.10
> > >
> > > Now I am, supposed to set usb0 to 192.168.0.202. Does that work with
> my
> > > current configuration? Or do I need to have
> > >
> > > 192.168.0.100 PC
> > > 192.168.0.101 router
> > > 192.168.0.102 printer
> > > 192.168.0.200 usb0
> > > 192.168.0.202 phone
> >
> > You're probably getting confused because you don't realize that your
> > PC will have *two* IPs. The network card with .2 is different then the
> > network interface that the neo presents. The PC will have two
> > addresses: .2 (ethernet) and .200 (usb0) and the neo has .202 (it
> > already has it, in the default configuration).
> > You will also have to make sure the PC is bridging packets from usb0
> > to the other interfaces. The details of how to do this depend on your
> > OS.. it sounds like you have Ubuntu?
>
> Almost: Debian.
>
> Best regards,
> Nicolas
>
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Re: Case Schematics

[Gabriel Ambuehl]

On Wednesday 26 December 2007 21:11:18 Michael Shiloh wrote:

> Yes, I'm afraid we are not able to open source the schematics. I think
> Harald or Werner explained this in a post somewhere - I'll see if I can
> find it.
>
> The main reason IIRC is that some of the chips came with NDAs that
> prevent us from doing so.
>
You have chips in the case? oOOOo


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Re: Circuit Diagram

[Michael Shiloh]

Esben Stien wrote:

Been looking on the wiki, but I cannot find neither the circuit
diagram, block diagram, component list nor the pcb layout
schematics. 

Any pointers as to where I can look?. 



Hi Esben,

I think this is the best place to start:


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware

Michael

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Re: Case Schematics

[Michael Shiloh]

Esben Stien wrote:

I want to make a steel Neo case, but I need the schematics. Any
reasons these are being held back?.



Hi Esben,

Yes, I'm afraid we are not able to open source the schematics. I think 
Harald or Werner explained this in a post somewhere - I'll see if I can 
find it.


The main reason IIRC is that some of the chips came with NDAs that 
prevent us from doing so.


Michael

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Circuit Diagram

[Esben Stien]

Been looking on the wiki, but I cannot find neither the circuit
diagram, block diagram, component list nor the pcb layout
schematics. 

Any pointers as to where I can look?. 

-- 
Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s  a 
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   sip:b0ef@   e e 
   jid:b0ef@n n

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Re: Phase 2 hardware: when?

[Michael Shiloh]

Hi Mike,

Mike wrote:

On Mon December 24 2007, Michael Shiloh wrote:

Hi Mike,

Year's end is not very likely. I'll correct that. Can you tell me where
you saw that?

It's on the commercial site: 


http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html



Why so it is. I think I wrote that (a long time ago!). It's certainly 
wrong. I'll get that fixed - thanks for pointing it out.





I don't know if you have control over that.


Not directly, but close enough.





For the latest on our schedule please see
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page



Thanks, Michael!


Thanks Mike!






Michael

Mike wrote:

Hello --

Does anyone know when will phase 2 (Consumer grade + Wi-Fi etc.) hardware
be available? The website says "by the ear's end" and it's getting pretty
close. I shall make efforts to file software bugs and help fix them, but
I want to have the basic functions (telephony, and Wi-Fi browsing)
working with no problems. So, what's the timetable and how realistic is
it?

Mike

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Case Schematics

[Esben Stien]

I want to make a steel Neo case, but I need the schematics. Any
reasons these are being held back?.

-- 
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Re: Phase 2 hardware: when?

[Mike]

On Mon December 24 2007, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Year's end is not very likely. I'll correct that. Can you tell me where
> you saw that?
>
It's on the commercial site: 

http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html

I don't know if you have control over that.

> For the latest on our schedule please see
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
>

Thanks, Michael!


> Michael
>
> Mike wrote:
> > Hello --
> >
> > Does anyone know when will phase 2 (Consumer grade + Wi-Fi etc.) hardware
> > be available? The website says "by the ear's end" and it's getting pretty
> > close. I shall make efforts to file software bugs and help fix them, but
> > I want to have the basic functions (telephony, and Wi-Fi browsing)
> > working with no problems. So, what's the timetable and how realistic is
> > it?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ___
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Re: Phase 2 hardware: when?

[Mike]

Thanks for the pointers, Tim!


On Mon December 24 2007, Tim Niemeyer wrote:
> Hallo Mike,
>
> * Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [22-12-07 20:51]:
> > Does anyone know when will phase 2 (Consumer grade + Wi-Fi etc.) hardware
> > be available? The website says "by the ear's end" and it's getting pretty
> > close. I shall make efforts to file software bugs and help fix them, but
> > I want to have the basic functions (telephony, and Wi-Fi browsing)
> > working with no problems. So, what's the timetable and how realistic is
> > it?
>
> The Topic of the IRC Channel:
>   [Topic] Topic for channel #openmoko is The OpenMoko Project -
>   http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01
>   on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about
>   GTA02 (Maybe March as of last update -
>   yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam).
>   Latest official update is at
>   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
>
>
>
> Tim Niemeyer



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Re: Apologies for spam - we will blacklist that account right away

[Harish Pillay]

> > May I make a suggestion to whoever is running this mailing list to add
> > the greylist technique to it as well?  I have had milter-greylist
> > running on
> > my main email servers for over 12 months now, and the amount of spam
> > reaching my users/mailing lists has gone down to almost zero.
> >
> I know greylisting works and is stopping spam very effective (for now).
>
> However this behaviour puts high volume mailservers in a lot of stress.
> Also I am experiencing, that spammers are adapting to greylisting and
> are connecting multiple times to mailservers. Supposedly in order to
> pass greylisting.
> Thus, the administrators of these high volume mailservers  have to get
> rid of several thousands incoming connections per minute from a single
> spammer (think of a botnet DDoS you) and delayed outgoing connections
> for your customers.
> You therefore have a higher deferr rate outgoing  (doubling outgoing
> connections) and therefore have a bigger mailqueue, additionally you
> have more incoming connections (spam) blocking your available TCP ports
> permanently only for the cause to reject them.

Actually, intuitively, it seems to be putting a lot of stress to the
servers.  But
if you look at what happens, each mail whose domain is not on the whitelist,
gets an "ack" of sorts telling it to come back an unspecified time
later.  Genuine
email servers that implement the SMTP protocol WILL retry (and generally
do so for upto 5 days).

When a mail is received and is not on the whitelist AND not on a "previously
seen list", a triple gets stored on the server - the sender ID, recipient ID and
sender's IP#.  That's it.  That incoming SMTP get acked and closed off.
If it was a genuine SMTP server, it will retry and when it does AFTER some
timeout period (which is not known to both ends), and the receiving SMTP
server matches the triple (sender ID, recipient ID and sender IP#), then that
mail is accepted and processed.  If it came back within the timeout period,
it will be rejected.  It is true that some legitimate SMTP servers WILL retry
almost immediately, but that load is and behaviour is OK for it is usually
not spambots.

> So my advice would be to not use greylisting, as it pushes the problem
> to other parts of the internet and is effective only for a limited time
> (if anyone is using it).

It pushes the problem to the source NOT the receiver.  A very large percentage
of these sources are spambots and is therefore perfectly acceptable to have
the push back.

> My thought is, that it would be much more effective to block
> subscription by sophisticated captchas (take care of XSS vulnerabilities
> ) . Also it might be effective to block subscriptions by using lists of
> compromised hosts like CBL ().
> Try to identify which IPs are causing trouble and do match them with
> several blacklists. The lists do not always work in the same way as it
> does for others. Sometimes also only a mix of several lists are working.
>  might help you there.

milter greylist that I use on my sendmail smtp servers use RBL lists and others
in addition to greylist.  So, it is not just one solution.

> If you dont have enough samples, be conservative. It is more a hassle to
> gain legitimate listmembers back, who you have been lost during
> subscription, as blocking fake accounts afterwards.
>
> Have an eye on your subscriptions. Too many new listmembers is certainly
> not a cause of marketing.
>
> I might have come a little off topic, but perhaps it helps someone.
>
> I am now getting back to my cookies, ice cream, cake and teas ;-)

Thanks for the comments and challenges.  You are welcome to take the
suggestion and try it out.  Nothing to loose I say.  It has worked for me on
the server I run (which serves a 20K userbase) and the machine is a lowly
Cobalt Qube with 64MB RAM.  It runs the latest sendmail and is also a
webserver (low volume sites btw).

Harish

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Re: Apologies for spam - we will blacklist that account right away

[Harish Pillay]

> After reading about the greylist which apparently bounces everyones
> email for a while, I would suggest no unless you are going to whitelist
> all current subscribers and make it only greylist new emailers.

Yes, that is true.  What I have done on the servers I run - which serves
a userbase of about 20k, is to add the obvious ones to a whitelist.  LIke
gmail.com, hotmail.com and big name companies like sony.com, ibm.com
redhat.com, sun.com, oracle.com.

I had it with spammers who were sending email from botnets that when
I got this setup going late last year, the email I got was from the 20k users
who were now wondering why is it that they don't have much in their spam
folders and they did not need to spend 10-30 minutes each morning clearing
spam that ended up in their inboxes.

I have been running it for now 12 months, and in my whitelist of my
greylist config file, I have about 20 domains autowhitelisted.  All others will
be randomly delayed and autowhitelisted if they show up.  My real world
experience has been that no email that was legitimate EVER got missed
out.

Perhaps I should mention here for completeness that, I had to spend some
minimal time reinforcing the idea that email is NOT instantaneous and that
one has to expect delays.  The SMTP protocol amply explains this principle.
We have gotten spoilt thinking that email is immediate, when it is best efforts.
So, all things considered, the technique works well with spam bots (who get
paid by the # of mail SENT and not by tje # RECEIVED).

Harish

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Re: Neo unusable for playing ogg

[Mikko Rauhala]

ke, 2007-12-26 kello 17:07 +0100, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen kirjoitti:
> As far as I know, Vorbis supports real time scaling of the quality.

I don't know about that. Theoretically, one hears, it supports bitrate
peeling, but AFAIK nobody's implemented that anywhere.

Anyway, on the larger issue of playing ogg, the pulseaudio sound server
seemed to take quite a lot of CPU when I tried playing music, though
this was a long while ago... ogg123 from command line using direct alsa
was a lot better. Wonder if something could be optimized here without
losing functionality?

-- 
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Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/>


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Re: Neo unusable for playing ogg

[Jeffrey Thomas]

> 64kbps (which is simular to a mp3 in 128kbps) without reencoding;
> which should be good enough for most of us.

It really isn't very good, and I wouldn't consider (a) reencoding files just 
for use on the Neo, nor (b) starting future encoding at this low rate.  I like 
my music and video at a high quality so that i can use it on multiple devices 
and not notice major compression!  Files encoded on my home computer are likely 
going to be used on that computer, also on the Neo, also on laptops, also 
streamed to my television...

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Re: Apologies for spam - we will blacklist that account right away

[Thomas Szukala]

Harish Pillay wrote:

May I make a suggestion to whoever is running this mailing list to add
the greylist technique to it as well?  I have had milter-greylist 
running on

my main email servers for over 12 months now, and the amount of spam
reaching my users/mailing lists has gone down to almost zero.
  

I know greylisting works and is stopping spam very effective (for now).

However this behaviour puts high volume mailservers in a lot of stress. 
Also I am experiencing, that spammers are adapting to greylisting and 
are connecting multiple times to mailservers. Supposedly in order to 
pass greylisting.
Thus, the administrators of these high volume mailservers  have to get 
rid of several thousands incoming connections per minute from a single 
spammer (think of a botnet DDoS you) and delayed outgoing connections 
for your customers.
You therefore have a higher deferr rate outgoing  (doubling outgoing 
connections) and therefore have a bigger mailqueue, additionally you 
have more incoming connections (spam) blocking your available TCP ports 
permanently only for the cause to reject them.


So my advice would be to not use greylisting, as it pushes the problem 
to other parts of the internet and is effective only for a limited time 
(if anyone is using it).


My thought is, that it would be much more effective to block 
subscription by sophisticated captchas (take care of XSS vulnerabilities 
) . Also it might be effective to block subscriptions by using lists of 
compromised hosts like CBL ().
Try to identify which IPs are causing trouble and do match them with 
several blacklists. The lists do not always work in the same way as it 
does for others. Sometimes also only a mix of several lists are working. 
 might help you there.


If you dont have enough samples, be conservative. It is more a hassle to 
gain legitimate listmembers back, who you have been lost during 
subscription, as blocking fake accounts afterwards.


Have an eye on your subscriptions. Too many new listmembers is certainly 
not a cause of marketing.


I might have come a little off topic, but perhaps it helps someone.

I am now getting back to my cookies, ice cream, cake and teas ;-)

Cheers Thomas


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Re: Neo unusable for playing ogg

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

> I tried installing the ipkgs for ogg-lib, vorbis-lib and vorbis-tools
> and run ogg123 from the command line, without X running.  It's taking
> between 75-80% CPU according to top.  So there isn't much headroom for
> GUI updating.  Well it's a 192kbps encoded file...

As far as I know, Vorbis supports real time scaling of the quality. So
if it is 192kbps there shouldn't be any problem doing the playback in
64kbps (which is simular to a mp3 in 128kbps) without reencoding;
which should be good enough for most of us.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

Flemming

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Re: Apologies for spam - we will blacklist that account right away

[GWMobile]

After reading about the greylist which apparently bounces everyones 
email for a while, I would suggest no unless you are going to whitelist 
all current subscribers and make it only greylist new emailers.


On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:41 am, Michael Shiloh wrote:

Thanks Harish,

I'll forward your suggestion to our IT person.

Regards,
Michael

Harish Pillay wrote:

May I make a suggestion to whoever is running this mailing list to add
the greylist technique to it as well?  I have had milter-greylist 
running on

my main email servers for over 12 months now, and the amount of spam
reaching my users/mailing lists has gone down to almost zero.
Thanks.
[1]http://hcpnet.free.fr/milter-greylist/
[2]http://harishpillay.livejournal.com/2007/01/17/
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www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles.


www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

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