Re: customized CPE - Android & Openmoko

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Marcus Bauer wrote:

For all those who have missed it out, there is a company named Koolu
which is going to sell the Neo with Android. [1] CTO of Koolu is Jon
'maddog' Hall, quite a well known personality.

As another note, they just changed availability for developers from
March to June. Thus if Openmoko gets the phone out in April, they still
need more time for Android.


[1] http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/WE-Phone.html


How is this possible? Android actually requires an ARMv5 CPU [1], while 
both neo and freerunner have an ARMv4 CPU [2]!


Any plans about releasing the source code of Android any time soon?

[1] http://tinyurl.com/ytutln
[2] http://tinyurl.com/2ngo8u

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Re: customized CPE - Android & Openmoko

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 01:25 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote:

> Let me use this opportunity to talk a bit about Openmoko and Android.
> First of all we really like Android! We don't see Android as  
> competition, it is complementary to what we are doing and may help us  
> in many ways.

For all those who have missed it out, there is a company named Koolu
which is going to sell the Neo with Android. [1] CTO of Koolu is Jon
'maddog' Hall, quite a well known personality.

As another note, they just changed availability for developers from
March to June. Thus if Openmoko gets the phone out in April, they still
need more time for Android.


[1] http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/WE-Phone.html



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Re: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?

[Michael Shiloh]

Hi Matthew,

I have checked with the experts.

GTA01 debug board will work with GTA02 (Freerunner), with some exceptions:

1. You can not program NOR FLASH
2. I2C and SPI aren’t available on the debug board

The main functions, JTAG and serial console, will be just fine. And you 
CAN program NAND FLASH.


Michael

Crane, Matthew wrote:


 
Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well?   How much 
of a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being?
 
Matt


*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Andros

*Sent:* Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM
*To:* Openmoko List
*Subject:* openmoko on ebay

I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced 
kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can,


It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160226011921 



good luck

--
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O|||O




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Re: Loosing your moko

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Michele Renda ha scritto:

According you is possible to prepare it with an qemu emulated system?
Or is necessary to have the true hardware?


AFAIK you can simply install Openmoko stack in any hardware, also in a 
standard PC, simply follow the wiki [1]!


[1] http://tinyurl.com/6bkfpj

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Denis]

We can also set up a fake-reflashing button so that we will be able to
get information from the device even after 'reflashing'.

2008/4/4, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> About the "we can do nothing if the phone is turned off by the thief
> immediately" - maybe we can do at least something:
>
> - implement the regular shutdown via a hidden menu entry, maybe with a
>   password
> - if the phone is instead turned off via the (hardware) power button of the
>   Neo we just fake a power-off by displaying a shutdown animation and turn
> off
>   the LCD and speaker.
>
> In this case it's even an advantage if the thief tried to turn off the phone
> because then we can be really sure that the phone is in illegitimate hands
> (as it might be that a good soul finds your lost phone and tries to return
> it
> to you/the police).
> After the fake-shutdown, the phone sets the THEFT_IN_PROGRESS flag and does
> all the fancy things you mentioned before:
>
> - encrypting/uploading/erasing the data
> - calling owner/police with GPS/GSM-cell location
> etc...
>
> Some more (exotic) things which came to my mind:
> - record and upload ambience to maybe catch the voice of the thief
> - setting volume to max and play a "The holder of this phone is currently
>   stealing it, the rightful owner and the police have been called 15 minutes
>   ago and know about your current location - drop it now and run like hell
> or
>   face the consequences" :o)
> - auto-accept a voice-call and make hanging-up impossible - that way you
> might
>   get the chance to talk him out of stealing your phone
>
> Of course - if he rips out the battery right after he finds it we really
> can't
> do much about it but if someone is paranoid enough he could probably make it
> very hard to open the case (-> superglue ;o)
>
> And if the thief does not turn off the phone, we could still trigger the
> THEFT_IN_PROGRESS mode by a coded SMS message.
>
> I'm pretty sure that the Neo could be made one of the hardest-to-steal
> phones
> ever :o)
>
> -- beren
>
> ___
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Re: Loosing your moko

[beren]

About the "we can do nothing if the phone is turned off by the thief 
immediately" - maybe we can do at least something:

- implement the regular shutdown via a hidden menu entry, maybe with a
  password
- if the phone is instead turned off via the (hardware) power button of the
  Neo we just fake a power-off by displaying a shutdown animation and turn off
  the LCD and speaker.

In this case it's even an advantage if the thief tried to turn off the phone 
because then we can be really sure that the phone is in illegitimate hands 
(as it might be that a good soul finds your lost phone and tries to return it 
to you/the police).
After the fake-shutdown, the phone sets the THEFT_IN_PROGRESS flag and does 
all the fancy things you mentioned before:

- encrypting/uploading/erasing the data
- calling owner/police with GPS/GSM-cell location
etc...

Some more (exotic) things which came to my mind:
- record and upload ambience to maybe catch the voice of the thief
- setting volume to max and play a "The holder of this phone is currently
  stealing it, the rightful owner and the police have been called 15 minutes
  ago and know about your current location - drop it now and run like hell or
  face the consequences" :o)
- auto-accept a voice-call and make hanging-up impossible - that way you might
  get the chance to talk him out of stealing your phone

Of course - if he rips out the battery right after he finds it we really can't 
do much about it but if someone is paranoid enough he could probably make it 
very hard to open the case (-> superglue ;o)

And if the thief does not turn off the phone, we could still trigger the 
THEFT_IN_PROGRESS mode by a coded SMS message.

I'm pretty sure that the Neo could be made one of the hardest-to-steal phones 
ever :o)

-- beren

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Re: Qemu images for FreeRunner

[Alexander Frøyseth]

Thanks
I will try it when I is in Linux

Michele Renda skrev:

Alexander Frøyseth wrote:

Can you send a link to the image?

I use the qemu image available using:

svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973

then making openmoko/download.sh it download the openmoko image.


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Re: customized CPE - Android & Openmoko

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On 4/4/08, Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
> If you look at the Android software stack, you will notice that they
> basically only use the Linux kernel and a few traditional 'helper'
> libraries, written in C (jpg, png, etc).
> But the bulk of the system is written from scratch. They even have their own
> libc! Their own Java virtual machine, their own graphics system, etc. etc.
> I do believe all of this is very healthy. Fresh blood. Take the Dalvik
> virtual machine for example. Basically they kick Sun somewhere, but that may
> turn out to be a nice wake-up call for something like HotSpot and similar
> established Java projects. IcedTea, GNU Classpath, etc.
> At the same time they ignore pretty much everything the FOSS community built
> over the last 10-20 years.
> No X, no d-bus, no standard packaging system, ...
> It's a fundamentally different approach from Openmoko.
...

Great summary! Very well written! :)

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

Sorry for replying to my own post. I just noticed that I quoted the wrong mail:(

What I meant to quote was:
> Is possible to implement a system to get all these data to the server
> (one time it is allarmed) and to delete the phone copy.

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Re: customized CPE

[Nick Guenther]

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:32 PM, khang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Taiwan  CPE  developers of  WiMax (etc..) are  looking  for  a new
> OS/plateform ,
> so  their  applications  won't   be  limited .
>   We  are  planning
> 1.City  surveillance (live  project) ---  installing  digital  camera
> wirelessly  sending  " clear "  image  back  to  control  center.
> 2.Remote  medical  care --- sending  medical  data / warning  signals
> wirelessly  to  Hospital / doctors
> 3.Home  security   ---  remote  monitoring  home  status  including  old
> people  and  child  safty
>   using   WiMax  network ( mobile  Internet ) .
> Is  OpenMoko CPE   a  good  choice  for  niche  or  special   applications
> or  not ???
> Any  ideas ?
> If   not , many   of  the  developers  will   go  for  Android .  That  is
> not  good .

Let them. I don't particularly want our community work to be used to
implement Big Brother.
-Nick

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Re: customized CPE - Android & Openmoko

[Lucas Bonnet]

Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Dear khang,
>
> Let me use this opportunity to talk a bit about Openmoko and Android.
> First of all we really like Android! We don't see Android as
> competition, it is complementary to what we are doing and may help us
> in many ways.



Thanks for this summary, allow me to reuse it next time I present
Openmoko to people outside the Free Software world :)


-- 
Lucas Bonnet
Bearstech - http://bearstech.com

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

The phone needs an application where we can configure which of all
these ideas we want to use (sending coordinates & phone no, detecting
if out of reach from BT device, etc).

I would like my phone to log the GPS info + current phone no to my
server, where the information would be stored in a mysql DB with a
timestamp.
It should always send the information when free internet is available.
I would also like it to send the same information over an SMS to a
preconfigured phone no if current_sim is not in the allowed_sim_cards
list

allowed=0;
for (i=0;i wrote:
> One of the really cool ideas is the bluetooth one as mentioned before.
> You can pick up a cheap bluetooth headset for next to nothing, and all
> you do is carry it around with you. When / if the neo detects it is
> out of range / past a specific RSSI, then it will start making noise.
> Not necessarily screaming 'I AM BEING STOLEN' but maybe play a song at
> full volume and start vibrating like crazy. You could also have it so
> if it goes past a specific RSSI it sends a message to the headset, to
> be discrete :)
>
> Cheers,
> Federico

If we should use this, we should not delete the data on the server. It
is much better to use a versioning system like svn or cvs on the
server for two reasons:
1) If you mess up some config files or delete something, you can
always get it back
2) It would be less information to sync

Setting up a svn server is very easy.
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Re: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?

[Jeff Andros]

according to mickey on sept 15 2007:

> It will definitely be compatible w/ GTA02. As for the successor
> models, we can't make a definitive answer yet (there is not even
> schematics nor silicon for those anyways ;), but of course we'll
> try to make it compatible...

granted that was a long time ago, but It doesn't sound like they've made any
major hardware revisions since then.

anyways, since the board uses a separate flexible ribbon connector there's a
chance of an adaptor being made if it's not 100% compatible

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well?   How much of
> a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being?
>
> Matt
>
>  --
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Andros
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM
> *To:* Openmoko List
> *Subject:* openmoko on ebay
>
> I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced
> kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can,
>
> It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160226011921
>
> good luck
>
> --
> Jeff
> O|||O
>
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>
>


-- 
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O|||O
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Re: Qemu images for FreeRunner

[Michele Renda]

Alexander Frøyseth wrote:

Can you send a link to the image?

I use the qemu image available using:

svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973

then making openmoko/download.sh it download the openmoko image.

I undestand that to have an Freerunner emulator I have to apply the 
/openmoko/linux-gta02-pseudo.patch

It is right?
/



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Re: Qemu images for FreeRunner

[Alexander Frøyseth]

Can you send a link to the image?
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Re: Loosing your moko

[Michele Renda]

According you is possible to prepare it with an qemu emulated system?
Or is necessary to have the true hardware?

ramsesoriginal wrote:

I too am (some sort of) developer. I tried to mess around a bit with
soem simple openmoko programming some months ago (pre-GTA01), but
since then we've gotten a long way. as far as I can understand it,
most of this options ould'nt be difficult, and if the correct bindings
are provided, could even be handled by some lines of python/ruby/...

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Hello
 I am a programmer, and I possible I will have some of the technical
capacity to develop something like this.
 I don't have any experience about OpenMoko programming, so, is very
possible I will not have success.
 But I will try to do, when I will buy my first FreeRunner ( I hope it will
come out as soon as possible).

 I will try, if I will not have sucess, no one will know! :)



 Sean Anderson wrote:



I think this thread of discussion is getting a little bit bogged down
with random ideas (not that I haven't contributed to that, it's fun!)
but does anyone have any technical insight into how easily these ideas
could be implemented on the Moko?

You know, if all else fails, it would probably be pretty cool. Most
GPS-related things are.

Sean.


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Re: Loosing your moko

[ramsesoriginal]

I too am (some sort of) developer. I tried to mess around a bit with
soem simple openmoko programming some months ago (pre-GTA01), but
since then we've gotten a long way. as far as I can understand it,
most of this options ould'nt be difficult, and if the correct bindings
are provided, could even be handled by some lines of python/ruby/...

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello
>  I am a programmer, and I possible I will have some of the technical
> capacity to develop something like this.
>  I don't have any experience about OpenMoko programming, so, is very
> possible I will not have success.
>  But I will try to do, when I will buy my first FreeRunner ( I hope it will
> come out as soon as possible).
>
>  I will try, if I will not have sucess, no one will know! :)
>
>
>
>  Sean Anderson wrote:
>
> > I think this thread of discussion is getting a little bit bogged down
> > with random ideas (not that I haven't contributed to that, it's fun!)
> > but does anyone have any technical insight into how easily these ideas
> > could be implemented on the Moko?
> >
> > You know, if all else fails, it would probably be pretty cool. Most
> > GPS-related things are.
> >
> > Sean.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
>
>  ___
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Qemu images for FreeRunner

[Michele Renda]

Hello

I'd like to know if there is a qemu image of freerunner.
Now I am using qemu-neo1973: the software conteined in this release is 
the same software that it will be present in freerunner?


This image contains also the GPS emulation?

Thank you

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Re: A few questions on the GSOC

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On 4/4/08, Steven Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday 03 April 2008 11:25:17 pm Joseph Jon Booker wrote:
>
> > > 3. What is required to deem the project complete?
> >
> > http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_evaluations <
> > the evaluations determine if you get paid is the closest to what you're
> > thinking of, after all, good projects never complete ;)
>
> What is the expectation for this project? I do not have the time to waste if
> the expectations are beyond what is possible.
>
> > > 5. If a working copy on the phone is required will I be given an
> > > OpenMoko phone to make sure this works (if so will this be for borrow
> > > or to keep)? 5.5 Will I be provided with a prepaid SIM? (I'm American
> > > so that would be either AT&T or TMobile)
> >
> > It's been said before on the list you will be provided with a
> > freerunner, even if it's a prototype. I don't recall any discussion
> > about providing you with cellphone service, and you really don't need
> > to do that for the noise detection project
>
> Out of couriousity what is a freerunner?

To put it simple (and maybe not entirely correct), the upcomming
hardware from Openmoko, GTA02, has been given the name Freerunner.

> I figured that a working sim would be
> nesicary for the final live tests if it is necessary to get it working on the
> mobile for completition.

Don't you know anyone that owns a sim card??? I think it sounds
strange that you need a sim card for this project. If it was a
"seamless switching between VoIP and GSM" type of project, I could
better understand.
>
> -Steven
>
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RE: Loosing your moko

[Crane, Matthew]

A phone can always receive a call.  The number itself is information and can be 
acted on, without answering the call.   I think there's a couple of ways to 
send a cue in a similar way, maybe.

Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan 
(Treviño)"
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:14 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Loosing your moko


Crane, Matthew ha scritto:
> An application only tx/rx'ing periodic and small amounts of data may work 
> better running on top of sms.  

Well, ok... Btw the question remains... Since I haven't a GPRS/SMS/Call 
flat I'd like the phone to send such informations only if I've requested 
them remotely...

A way to make this possible? SMS of course, then (to get also a ssh 
connection, for example)?

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Re: customized CPE - Android & Openmoko

[Wolfgang Spraul]

Dear khang,

Is  OpenMoko CPE   a  good  choice  for  niche  or  special
applications  or  not ???

Any  ideas ?
If   not , many   of  the  developers  will   go  for  Android .   
That  is  not  good .


Let me use this opportunity to talk a bit about Openmoko and Android.
First of all we really like Android! We don't see Android as  
competition, it is complementary to what we are doing and may help us  
in many ways.


If you look at the Android software stack, you will notice that they  
basically only use the Linux kernel and a few traditional 'helper'  
libraries, written in C (jpg, png, etc).
But the bulk of the system is written from scratch. They even have  
their own libc! Their own Java virtual machine, their own graphics  
system, etc. etc.
I do believe all of this is very healthy. Fresh blood. Take the Dalvik  
virtual machine for example. Basically they kick Sun somewhere, but  
that may turn out to be a nice wake-up call for something like HotSpot  
and similar established Java projects. IcedTea, GNU Classpath, etc.
At the same time they ignore pretty much everything the FOSS community  
built over the last 10-20 years.

No X, no d-bus, no standard packaging system, ...
It's a fundamentally different approach from Openmoko.

From outside you first have to decide: Do you go with Android and  
step outside of 90% of what the FOSS community has built? Or do you go  
with Openmoko, which is a lot closer to something like Ubuntu?


There are many things to learn from Android. I like their 'intent'  
system for example. Lots of great software will become available as  
Open Source, and will find its way into many places, one of them being  
Openmoko.
Getting the complete Android to run side-by-side with GTK or  
Enlightenment will be a lot harder than it is with Qtopia for example.  
That's because even though Qtopia can be seen as one large monolithic  
code base, it is still relatively well connected to many other FOSS  
standards. Android is not connected at all, just sitting on top of the  
Linux kernel, and several times larger than Qtopia.


Bottom line: We hope the Android sources will be releaesed soon. We  
think Android is a great piece of software, will become really  
successful, maybe even become the long-awaited 'Linux desktop' one  
day? The future looks good for Android.
Openmoko will benefit in many ways, from Google pushing chip vendors  
to become more open to lots of high-quality Apache-licensed source  
codes being set free, allowing us to cherry-pick from Android into  
Openmoko.
Additionally, you can either play with Android itself, or run Openmoko  
software on hardware that was opened up thanks to Android.


Hope this helps, everything is moving so this is just a snapshot in  
time.
Feedback very welcome, a lot of this is driven by what the community  
wants to do. Often people show us how things should be done, not the  
other way round ;-)

Wolfgang

On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:32 AM, khang wrote:

Taiwan  CPE  developers of  WiMax (etc..) are  looking  for  a new   
OS/plateform ,

so  their  applications  won't   be  limited .
  We  are  planning
1.City  surveillance (live  project) ---  installing  digital   
camera  wirelessly  sending  " clear "  image  back  to  control   
center.
2.Remote  medical  care --- sending  medical  data / warning   
signals   wirelessly  to  Hospital / doctors
3.Home  security   ---  remote  monitoring  home  status  including   
old  people  and  child  safty

  using   WiMax  network ( mobile  Internet ) .
Is  OpenMoko CPE   a  good  choice  for  niche  or  special
applications  or  not ???

Any  ideas ?
If   not , many   of  the  developers  will   go  for  Android .   
That  is  not  good .


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Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On 4/3/08, Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Hervé,
> here is my perspective:
> Most chip vendors see their business in selling chips. Documentation is just
> a necessary evil to them, they are trying to get away with the minimum
> amount of documentation that will still sell the chip.
> Unless in very few cases, chip vendors do not see good documentation as a
> strategic asset that will help sell their chips. Maybe down the road we are
> lucky and Intel becomes a vendor that sees documentation like this, but I
> will believe it when I see it. NXP also came around to us in a very nice
> way.
> We would like to publish documentation for the Toshiba ASIC in our LCM, very
> hard with Toshiba (I'm not complaining, it's a big company and we are a
> minuscule customer).
> Samsung seems to be going closed, even though they joined the Open Handset
> Alliance and are a big supporter of Android!
>
> Why that? Well, let's think from their perspective: Again - they are selling
> chips, not books or PDF files.
> In the case of Samsung, the legal department may look at a given PDF file
> (say 1000 pages long) and see LOTS OF RISKS! When their lawyers read this
> document (and they won't understand most of the technical stuff in there),
> they are very concerned that the document will provide grounds for lawsuits
> against Samsung later on.
> If they just sell the chips as-is, those risks are reduced.
> Plus they will say "why do we have to release THIS particular PDF?" Why not
> a much shorter version, say a 2-page high-level overview, which the legal
> department can carefully check word-by-word before release? And if it has to
> be this specific PDF, why not release even much more? Samsung certainly has
> another 100,000 pages documentation for each chip, internally.
>
> If you think about it from their perspective documentation is a very random
> thing. You cannot easily convince them that if they release a 1000-page PDF
> file about the say 6400 chip, they will sell this many more chips compared
> to just releasing a 2-page PDF file.
>
> So we at Openmoko need to be smart, and accept realities out there:
>
> ---1
> The current model: We try to convince vendors to open up documentation to
> the public, ideally allowing us (or even better everyone else) to
> redistribute the documentation. Like Intel is doing with Creative Commons
> now.
>
> ---2
> We can try to 'buy' chips+documentation, make the PDF file part of the
> purchase. We would then put the PDF file behind a click-through license,
> which says that the PDF behind the click-through license is just part of the
> Neo product, and does not guarantee product behavior. The legal
> effectiveness of such a click-through license is debatable, and we would
> still need the vendor to like the idea and agree to give us documents under
> these terms.
>
> ---3
> We can sign traditional NDAs and alert our vendors that we are legally
> hiring respected FOSS engineers on a nominal basis (say 1 USD/month), in
> order to give them access to the documents we have under NDA and allow them
> to write FOSS software same as our traditional, fully-paid engineers can.
> Again we could only do this with vendors who understand what we are doing,
> trust us, and generally agree to the idea. We would not mass-hire thousands
> of people this way, say having a form on the web where you can 'hire'
> yourself, then download all docs. It all has to be reasonable and ideas and
> intentions must not be ridiculed. But I could imagine that this is doable,
> first with a few selected people, later maybe dozens or even hundreds of
> people? The bigger we make this the more our own legal department will get
> concerned :-)
>
> ---4
> We can become much more aggressive in documenting our source codes. Most
> vendors would actually like that! Remember what I said above that the legal
> departments see documentation THEY publish as a risk! But if we publish
> something we wrote ourselves they usually don't care, in fact they like if
> someone does free work for them. We can say whatever we want about a
> vendor's chips, worst case we will get sued, not them :-) So maybe we should
> just go ahead and EXTENSIVELY document source codes, to the point that you
> basically have long lists of well-documented defines in header files, long
> commented-out texts describing certain chip behavior, more or less based on
> what we read in the documentation (just rewritten), etc. Same as always, we
> would only do this with vendors that understand & agree to this, but as with
> #2 and #3 there is actually a good chance many vendors would be supportive.
>
> There is no perfect solution to cover all cases. We need to work case by
> case (vendor by vendor) to open up documentation, so that we Free The Phone,
> as we have set out to do.
> I see a big tendency to write 'pseudo' open source codes, where it's
> nominally written say in C, but actually it's just long lists of writing
> magic 32-bit values in

Re: Loosing your moko

[joerg]

Am Fr  4. April 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño):
> Just a question: can I have a "passive" GPRS connection: I mean, I call 
> my or newer number "asking it" to connect to somewhere...

Of course you may trigger GPRS-register e.g. by sending some magic sms,
but there is no such thing as a GPRS call. 
GPRS is "always online" data transmitted between mobile and base station, with 
a different protocol than GSM-calls. If your sim doesn't allow for GPRS, no 
call will help.
You may place GSM-data calls to a mobile special data number by using a modem 
(or via ISDN by setting data-service flag), same way you can fax. Anyway this 
is limited to 9600/14400 b/s datarate.

cheers
jOERG

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Michele Renda]

Hello
I am a programmer, and I possible I will have some of the technical 
capacity to develop something like this.
I don't have any experience about OpenMoko programming, so, is very 
possible I will not have success.
But I will try to do, when I will buy my first FreeRunner ( I hope it 
will come out as soon as possible).


I will try, if I will not have sucess, no one will know! :)

Sean Anderson wrote:

I think this thread of discussion is getting a little bit bogged down
with random ideas (not that I haven't contributed to that, it's fun!)
but does anyone have any technical insight into how easily these ideas
could be implemented on the Moko?

You know, if all else fails, it would probably be pretty cool. Most
GPS-related things are.

Sean.


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Re: Power Management on Neo1973

[Tim Niemeyer]

Hallo Fredrik,

* Fredrik Markström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [04-04-08 12:59]:
>I'm getting an uneasy feeling about the GTA01 power management issues, the
>questions has been asked more then once in this forum, but I havn't seen
>any answeres. Is openmoko trying to "put the lid on" or what ?
I think all are in GTA02 elation, ... [ :-) & :-( ]

But i also want clearness!

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-January/012456.html
Huh? Doesn't used qtopia the same kernel as openmoko at that time/date?

Resume works! But not ever, this remembers me on my old notebook, with
bad drivers... I found the driver by using this pm-trace feature for
i386 hardware. Isn't it possible to port this to the neo?
Or are there other ways to debug the resume? I really want to work on
it, but i don't know how!

I don't know the power usage in suspend, but if the device doesn't wake
up every time, we don't need to talk about power usage!

And to give this GTA01-PM thing a new mind:
I think with working power management, we are all better capable in
testing software!

> 
>/Fredrik
> 
>On Thu, Feb 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Tim Niemeyer
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  Hello,
> 
>  as i understood correctly in GTA02 are new PCF and CPU. So it's possible
>  that the problems in GTA01 aren't in GTA02.
> 
>  But the question from frederik is still unansweared. Michael any news?
> 
>  * Fredrik Markstro:m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [27-01-08
>  17:28]:
>  >
>  >Michael, any progress on this issue ?  Will the GTA-01 ever be
>  usable as
>  >an everyday-phone, or
>  >is the hardware to broken ?
>  >
>  >/Fredrik
> 
>  Tim Niemeyer
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
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>  SBV30RIBgRmuHPipE1wsUYA=
>  =DJTH
>  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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RE: Loosing your moko

[Sean Anderson]

I think this thread of discussion is getting a little bit bogged down
with random ideas (not that I haven't contributed to that, it's fun!)
but does anyone have any technical insight into how easily these ideas
could be implemented on the Moko? 

You know, if all else fails, it would probably be pretty cool. Most
GPS-related things are.

Sean.


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RE: Loosing your moko

[Tim Newsom]

All of this also pre-supposes that the phone is somewhere that gps can actually 
function.  You might also consider using cell tower location (i can't remember 
what its called) to at least get a general area. I saw a demo of this concept 
in the moble google maps application.

Another way to prevent your secret data from being stolen off the phone would 
be to implement something like a web services based storage provider. The os 
could use it like a relatively slow file sytem, over an encrypted link and 
cache it locally and temporarily. Have it sync periodically and auto wipe if 
the wrong password is entered at boot or waking up from sleep / etc. No loss of 
data except what may have been changed since the last sync before you lost it. 
Shouldn't be that hard to implement. Obviously its not for everyone, lack of a 
flat rate or 'unlimited' plan would make it unsuitable. There is probably no 
universal solution.

--Tim

-Original Message-
From: Sean Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:45 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Subject: Re: Loosing your moko

It's certainly prudent to realise that this is far from a full-proof
phone theft prevention system. I realise it's a little redundant to say
"aaw, but no security is airtight anyway!", but it's worth pointing out
nonetheless.

Encrypted data, a device that phones home... these are all flawed but
noticeable barriers for the potential thief. It is also worth noting
that the data stored on a phone like the Moko (emails, passwords, ssh
keys) is significantly more valuable than the type of data stored on
ordinary cellphones at the moment ("hey, how r u? <3" x 500, some
pictures of people being hit by bins) so it is more important that the
owners of the devices, and the developers, think more seriously about
how to protect the valuable data that is being stored.

The Moko has the hardware and the flexibility, so I doubt it would be a
great deal of trouble to implement a little GPS app that phones home
when it gets lost. 

My main point: the system may also be useful if the user has simply
misplaced the phone and would like to find out if they've left it at a
friend's house or at the pub. GPS is getting accurate enough to
determine which area of the house it is in. It could eliminate the
possibility of it being stolen if it turns up in a familiar location.
How is the Moko user going to tell if they have dropped their phone on
the train and it is sitting unclaimed at the lost & found depot of the
train station? GPS, of course :)

Sean.

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 12:43 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off  
> > the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change  
> > the internal sim, before to turn on it.
> 
> This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are  
> stolen or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off  
> and throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring  
> several phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays  
> them maybe a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them  
> to get their needle.
> 
> The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run  
> an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the  
> phone or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone  
> with someone's data on it that would be crying out loud “I'm a stolen  
> phone”. They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the  
> IMEI in those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone  
> is a second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that  
> the phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are  
> in fact stolen.
> 
> Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market  
> where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes  
> them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone.  
> Of course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the  
> phones are stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of  
> this situation, the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI  
> (which is often impossible to change) to track down or at least deny  
> service to phones reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Federico Lorenzi]

One of the really cool ideas is the bluetooth one as mentioned before.
You can pick up a cheap bluetooth headset for next to nothing, and all
you do is carry it around with you. When / if the neo detects it is
out of range / past a specific RSSI, then it will start making noise.
Not necessarily screaming 'I AM BEING STOLEN' but maybe play a song at
full volume and start vibrating like crazy. You could also have it so
if it goes past a specific RSSI it sends a message to the headset, to
be discrete :)

Cheers,
Federico

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't want to say this is the solution for all the problems:
>
>
> > As cool as all the solutions sound, we have to think of some
> > problems/implications:
> > 1) What happens if the sim gets changed?
> >
> >
>  It continue to run, because the program is not sim related. Whe it see a
> tcp/ip connection it send a data packet to openmoko serve.
>  The sim credential is used only to identify who use the phone.
>
>
> > 2) What happens if the phone gets flashed?
> >
> >
>  To this, I think we can do nothing. I hope it is sold without to be
> flashed. Freerunner is not a so common phone for now.
>
>
> > 3) What's with my data (stored e-mail passwords, wifi-passwods, web
> > history, session cookies, e-mails, and so on)?
> >
> >
>  Is possible to implement a system to get all these data to the server (one
> time it is allarmed) and to delete the phone copy.
>
>
> > 4) What if I only loose the phone?
> >
> >
>  You can access to openmoko server without make a stealt alarm, but only a
> lose allarm
>
>
> > 5) What if I lend the phone to a friend? Do I have to follow a
> > two-hour setup procedure to avoid my phone calling the police?
> >
> >
> >
>  Is forbidden to call policy with an automatic system
>
>
>
> > There are many solutions, but each one has it's flaws. The idea that
> > the phone reports back in some way is pretty cool: at each sim change,
> > send an sms to a preconfigured number, saying "Hi, i'm name, this is
> > my new number". A good utility for keeping your buddies up to date,
> > and for having always the newest number. another good idea is to have
> > configure the phone to play some sort of alarm and encrypt the files
> > (but still allowing access to the phone, so that the thief keeps on
> > using it) when it's more then.. 2 meters away from a configured
> > bluetooth device (your headset/bluetooth keyboard/whatever). An
> > intresting idea is to trace the gps position each minute, store them,
> > and send a log per e-mail as soon as a connection is possible (open
> > wifi, gprs, logged in into wifi, ..). Also a program that sends to all
> > bluetooth devices it reaches wich accept it something like "Help Me!
> > I'm a stolen phone. I belong to $name, $adress. My actual phone number
> > is $number, please contact the police". One out of many people maybe
> > will contact the police. Also the client/server setup is an intresting
> > idea, allowing one to install its own server, and sending coordinates
> > and phone number in periodical intervals. Maybe one could even make a
> > buisness providing this client/server setup.
> > And if the card is taken out, and the phone flashed? Well.. if the
> > phone is already shut down, you've lost your phone. The only
> > possibility would be to have some sort of trackback of the serial
> > numbers of all flashed devices.. but the security and privacy
> > implications of this would be too great..
> >
> > Just my two cents
> >
> >
> >
>  Yes, I think your ideas are good!
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Loosing your moko

[Michele Renda]

I don't want to say this is the solution for all the problems:

As cool as all the solutions sound, we have to think of some
problems/implications:
1) What happens if the sim gets changed?
  
It continue to run, because the program is not sim related. Whe it see a 
tcp/ip connection it send a data packet to openmoko serve.

The sim credential is used only to identify who use the phone.

2) What happens if the phone gets flashed?
  
To this, I think we can do nothing. I hope it is sold without to be 
flashed. Freerunner is not a so common phone for now.

3) What's with my data (stored e-mail passwords, wifi-passwods, web
history, session cookies, e-mails, and so on)?
  
Is possible to implement a system to get all these data to the server 
(one time it is allarmed) and to delete the phone copy.

4) What if I only loose the phone?
  
You can access to openmoko server without make a stealt alarm, but only 
a lose allarm

5) What if I lend the phone to a friend? Do I have to follow a
two-hour setup procedure to avoid my phone calling the police?

  

Is forbidden to call policy with an automatic system

There are many solutions, but each one has it's flaws. The idea that
the phone reports back in some way is pretty cool: at each sim change,
send an sms to a preconfigured number, saying "Hi, i'm name, this is
my new number". A good utility for keeping your buddies up to date,
and for having always the newest number. another good idea is to have
configure the phone to play some sort of alarm and encrypt the files
(but still allowing access to the phone, so that the thief keeps on
using it) when it's more then.. 2 meters away from a configured
bluetooth device (your headset/bluetooth keyboard/whatever). An
intresting idea is to trace the gps position each minute, store them,
and send a log per e-mail as soon as a connection is possible (open
wifi, gprs, logged in into wifi, ..). Also a program that sends to all
bluetooth devices it reaches wich accept it something like "Help Me!
I'm a stolen phone. I belong to $name, $adress. My actual phone number
is $number, please contact the police". One out of many people maybe
will contact the police. Also the client/server setup is an intresting
idea, allowing one to install its own server, and sending coordinates
and phone number in periodical intervals. Maybe one could even make a
buisness providing this client/server setup.
And if the card is taken out, and the phone flashed? Well.. if the
phone is already shut down, you've lost your phone. The only
possibility would be to have some sort of trackback of the serial
numbers of all flashed devices.. but the security and privacy
implications of this would be too great..

Just my two cents

  

Yes, I think your ideas are good!



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Re: Loosing your moko

[ramsesoriginal]

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Sean Anderson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's certainly prudent to realise that this is far from a full-proof
>  phone theft prevention system. I realise it's a little redundant to say
>  "aaw, but no security is airtight anyway!", but it's worth pointing out
>  nonetheless.
>
>  Encrypted data, a device that phones home... these are all flawed but
>  noticeable barriers for the potential thief. It is also worth noting
>  that the data stored on a phone like the Moko (emails, passwords, ssh
>  keys) is significantly more valuable than the type of data stored on
>  ordinary cellphones at the moment ("hey, how r u? <3" x 500, some
>  pictures of people being hit by bins) so it is more important that the
>  owners of the devices, and the developers, think more seriously about
>  how to protect the valuable data that is being stored.
>
>  The Moko has the hardware and the flexibility, so I doubt it would be a
>  great deal of trouble to implement a little GPS app that phones home
>  when it gets lost.
>
>  My main point: the system may also be useful if the user has simply
>  misplaced the phone and would like to find out if they've left it at a
>  friend's house or at the pub. GPS is getting accurate enough to
>  determine which area of the house it is in. It could eliminate the
>  possibility of it being stolen if it turns up in a familiar location.
>  How is the Moko user going to tell if they have dropped their phone on
>  the train and it is sitting unclaimed at the lost & found depot of the
>  train station? GPS, of course :)
>
>  Sean.
>
>
>
>  On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 12:43 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
>  > On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  > > When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off
>  > > the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change
>  > > the internal sim, before to turn on it.
>  >
>  > This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are
>  > stolen or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off
>  > and throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring
>  > several phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays
>  > them maybe a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them
>  > to get their needle.
>  >
>  > The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run
>  > an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the
>  > phone or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone
>  > with someone's data on it that would be crying out loud "I'm a stolen
>  > phone". They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the
>  > IMEI in those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone
>  > is a second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that
>  > the phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are
>  > in fact stolen.
>  >
>  > Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market
>  > where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes
>  > them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone.
>  > Of course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the
>  > phones are stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of
>  > this situation, the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI
>  > (which is often impossible to change) to track down or at least deny
>  > service to phones reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.
>
>
I'm not an expert of the matter, but if it's possible to detect the
distance of some bluetooth-device, then a simple headset (remains
always on your ear) or even a "bacon" in your wallet is enough to
prevent loosing/getting your phone stolen: if more then 2 meters
distance, make a loud noise. That's it.


-- 
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Sean Anderson]

It's certainly prudent to realise that this is far from a full-proof
phone theft prevention system. I realise it's a little redundant to say
"aaw, but no security is airtight anyway!", but it's worth pointing out
nonetheless.

Encrypted data, a device that phones home... these are all flawed but
noticeable barriers for the potential thief. It is also worth noting
that the data stored on a phone like the Moko (emails, passwords, ssh
keys) is significantly more valuable than the type of data stored on
ordinary cellphones at the moment ("hey, how r u? <3" x 500, some
pictures of people being hit by bins) so it is more important that the
owners of the devices, and the developers, think more seriously about
how to protect the valuable data that is being stored.

The Moko has the hardware and the flexibility, so I doubt it would be a
great deal of trouble to implement a little GPS app that phones home
when it gets lost. 

My main point: the system may also be useful if the user has simply
misplaced the phone and would like to find out if they've left it at a
friend's house or at the pub. GPS is getting accurate enough to
determine which area of the house it is in. It could eliminate the
possibility of it being stolen if it turns up in a familiar location.
How is the Moko user going to tell if they have dropped their phone on
the train and it is sitting unclaimed at the lost & found depot of the
train station? GPS, of course :)

Sean.

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 12:43 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off  
> > the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change  
> > the internal sim, before to turn on it.
> 
> This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are  
> stolen or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off  
> and throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring  
> several phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays  
> them maybe a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them  
> to get their needle.
> 
> The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run  
> an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the  
> phone or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone  
> with someone's data on it that would be crying out loud “I'm a stolen  
> phone”. They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the  
> IMEI in those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone  
> is a second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that  
> the phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are  
> in fact stolen.
> 
> Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market  
> where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes  
> them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone.  
> Of course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the  
> phones are stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of  
> this situation, the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI  
> (which is often impossible to change) to track down or at least deny  
> service to phones reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Crane, Matthew ha scritto:
An application only tx/rx'ing periodic and small amounts of data may work better running on top of sms.  


Well, ok... Btw the question remains... Since I haven't a GPRS/SMS/Call 
flat I'd like the phone to send such informations only if I've requested 
them remotely...


A way to make this possible? SMS of course, then (to get also a ssh 
connection, for example)?


--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Michele Renda ha scritto:
When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off 
the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change 
the internal sim, before to turn on it.


Well, this is true but sending data on next power-on could help.
BTW, here we're talking about stealing; this is an important issue, but 
thread talked generally about "loosing", so I think that we should first 
implement "non-paranoia" features that simply you could use when you 
can't find your phone but it's alive and "ringing" (reachable via GPS at 
least).

I think (hope) it will be more used than an anti-theft feature.

About data securyt... I've already mentioned, but isn't there a way to 
use an encrypted filesystem by default on Openmoko? Actually they 
perform like the standard filesystems [1], but they would give us more 
security if someone has taken our phone and he wants to access to our 
data. Another gain of using a such thing would be that we don't need to 
create a security feature for each used application.
Of course, I guess there's a bad thing: if you have an already running 
phone you can't block the user to access to some data (am I right, isn't 
it?).


[1] http://tinyurl.com/657wmo

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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: Loosing your moko

[Crane, Matthew]

An application only tx/rx'ing periodic and small amounts of data may work 
better running on top of sms.  

Matt 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan 
(Treviño)"
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:10 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Loosing your moko


Mike Baroukh wrote:
> Very good Idea !
> just :  if it has been stolen, the sim card will be changed. So may be,
> each time the sim card is changed, an sms could automatically be send to
> another number (so you have the new phone number and can continue to
> communicate with it ...). Or, if gprs works, maybe a post can be made to
> a server ...

Of course, with GPS position, if available!

Just a question: can I have a "passive" GPRS connection: I mean, I call 
my or newer number "asking it" to connect to somewhere...

-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Loosing your moko

[ramsesoriginal]

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Alexey Feldgendler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off the
> phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change the
> internal sim, before to turn on it.
> >
>
>  This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are stolen
> or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off and
> throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring several
> phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays them maybe
> a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them to get their
> needle.
>
>  The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run
> an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the phone
> or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone with
> someone's data on it that would be crying out loud "I'm a stolen phone".
> They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the IMEI in
> those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone is a
> second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that the
> phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are in fact
> stolen.
>
>  Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market
> where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes
> them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone. Of
> course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the phones are
> stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of this situation,
> the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI (which is often
> impossible to change) to track down or at least deny service to phones
> reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.
>
>
>  --
>  Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com
>
>
>
>  ___
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>

As cool as all the solutions sound, we have to think of some
problems/implications:
1) What happens if the sim gets changed?
2) What happens if the phone gets flashed?
3) What's with my data (stored e-mail passwords, wifi-passwods, web
history, session cookies, e-mails, and so on)?
4) What if I only loose the phone?
5) What if I lend the phone to a friend? Do I have to follow a
two-hour setup procedure to avoid my phone calling the police?

There are many solutions, but each one has it's flaws. The idea that
the phone reports back in some way is pretty cool: at each sim change,
send an sms to a preconfigured number, saying "Hi, i'm name, this is
my new number". A good utility for keeping your buddies up to date,
and for having always the newest number. another good idea is to have
configure the phone to play some sort of alarm and encrypt the files
(but still allowing access to the phone, so that the thief keeps on
using it) when it's more then.. 2 meters away from a configured
bluetooth device (your headset/bluetooth keyboard/whatever). An
intresting idea is to trace the gps position each minute, store them,
and send a log per e-mail as soon as a connection is possible (open
wifi, gprs, logged in into wifi, ..). Also a program that sends to all
bluetooth devices it reaches wich accept it something like "Help Me!
I'm a stolen phone. I belong to $name, $adress. My actual phone number
is $number, please contact the police". One out of many people maybe
will contact the police. Also the client/server setup is an intresting
idea, allowing one to install its own server, and sending coordinates
and phone number in periodical intervals. Maybe one could even make a
buisness providing this client/server setup.
And if the card is taken out, and the phone flashed? Well.. if the
phone is already shut down, you've lost your phone. The only
possibility would be to have some sort of trackback of the serial
numbers of all flashed devices.. but the security and privacy
implications of this would be too great..

Just my two cents

-- 
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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Re: Power Management on Neo1973

[Fredrik Markström]

I'm getting an uneasy feeling about the GTA01 power management issues, the
questions has been asked more then once in this forum, but I havn't seen any
answeres. Is openmoko trying to "put the lid on" or what ?

/Fredrik

On Thu, Feb 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Tim Niemeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> as i understood correctly in GTA02 are new PCF and CPU. So it's possible
> that the problems in GTA01 aren't in GTA02.
>
> But the question from frederik is still unansweared. Michael any news?
>
> * Fredrik Markström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [27-01-08
> 17:28]:
> >
> >Michael, any progress on this issue ?  Will the GTA-01 ever be usable
> as
> >an everyday-phone, or
> >is the hardware to broken ?
> >
> >/Fredrik
>
>
> Tim Niemeyer
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFHqi7lGbn/Eak8UZYRAspZAJ9V6gSyEFeU+4RLNLnWHPJREBQNzwCcDpiT
> SBV30RIBgRmuHPipE1wsUYA=
> =DJTH
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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>
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Re: Loosing your moko

[Alexey Feldgendler]

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off  
the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change  
the internal sim, before to turn on it.


This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are  
stolen or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off  
and throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring  
several phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays  
them maybe a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them  
to get their needle.


The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run  
an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the  
phone or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone  
with someone's data on it that would be crying out loud “I'm a stolen  
phone”. They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the  
IMEI in those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone  
is a second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that  
the phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are  
in fact stolen.


Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market  
where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes  
them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone.  
Of course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the  
phones are stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of  
this situation, the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI  
(which is often impossible to change) to track down or at least deny  
service to phones reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.



--
Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: customized CPE

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| 1.City  surveillance (live  project) ---  installing  digital  camera
...
|   using   WiMax  network ( mobile  Internet ) .

| Is  OpenMoko CPE   a  good  choice  for  niche  or  special
| applications  or  not ???

Just considering existing GTA02 it is a good choice for "niche or
special applications", with normal X and decent processor and USB Host,
but the elements you need here are missing: Camera and WiMax.

If what you want doesn't exist in a better form, you could use USB
12Mbps to get camera images and USB WiMax adapter maybe.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkf17ooACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpfhQCfbuJ/Kx1qsO+HaLedu/FFu3fm
pfUAni+xTJ6VzhmDrTG1CrNzGNzyD+WZ
=ri2h
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Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)

[herve couvelard]

Wolfgang Spraul wrote:

Dear Hervé,
here is my perspective:

>[...;]
Most chip vendors see their business in selling chips. Documentation is 
engineers can. Again we could only do this with vendors who understand 
what we are doing, trust us, and generally agree to the idea. We would 


That is exactly the meaning of my "fair". If vendors fully agrees with 
what is decided, i'm fully happy with that. I understand manufacture 
world is not wonderland, what i was saying is "free world must do what 
he is _supposed_ doing", not finding ways around.


If the vendor agrees about letting someone(s) use the nda "under the 
responsibility of om" i am fully satisfied with it and i fully support 
that fact as a "middle of the river position".


openmokko is really a great project that would show the world that 
openness is a real possibility not only a sweet dream.


i always by open products, even if could do without it (for exemple 
gp2x, and down om


hervé


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Re: Accelerometer brainstorming

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hello,

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Alexey Feldgendler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Are roundabouts in tunnels an April fool? Never encountered one.

No, roundabouts in tunnels are real - we even have one or two such
tunnels here in Norway.
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen
Norway

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Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)

[herve couvelard]

Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:

I think it would be the best way...

And why is it not fair?
He would be a "real" part of the project. What's wrong with that?


Well, why not. i'm not concerned. just to be asked to the chip vendor.


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Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)

[herve couvelard]

I bet if you could name such a device, they would have no problem in using it for future products. 



I bet that if my incomes would exclusively depend on producing such a 
device, i would use time to search for it.
Everything i do, or sale, depends on free software (even for drivers), 
even if that means less features and less velocity.


As i am "just" a customer and latter on, maybe, a contributor as il 
would develop and give the community my work, and do want to lose time 
on that.


i know that it is not easy to find 'open' chips, but if open company 
'buy' closed chips there will not be 'open' chips at all.


It's a shame that project like olpc use that new 
low-consuming-close-source-wifi-chip without able to obtain open specs 
for it : they'll manufacture a large number of it. How could someone ask 
the chip vendor to open there specs if even in "free-world" people use 
them "as is". [this is the same with the broadcom chip on freebox(c) ]


But in free-world we must be "fair" and do what we says _always_

hervé


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