Re: GTA02 Release Date
My intention wasn't a comparison of the iPhone to the Neo. I do run Linux at home and at my office for our servers, I don't even dual boot with Windows anymore because I don't see any reason to use it. I'm well aware of the differences. All I was remarking on is that the iPhone is probably the next best thing, especially if they offer a SDK. The problem I have with this project is that for a long time we were without any information or updates. For quite a while, communication was dead. The big example I already gave, people were expecting the phone to come out in October, even well into the month. That shouldn't happen. If it's going to be delayed, fine, but don't go past your deadline and THEN tell people its going to be months later. Even more strange is that we thought we were so close, within the month, yet here we are 6 months later, with no idea when it will be released. Now, lately it seems we're getting some updates, but I still get a general sense of confusion about the state of the project when I read through emails on the list. We still don't really have any goal date, as far as I know. My concerns don't really have anything to do with the iPhone directly. I'm not questioning which will be a better choice for me, but again, it's really the only comparable phone that I see available. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question: who never wrote an email like this when the iphone project was in progress? Answer: No one. Why? Because the Apple keep all the project under a very strict secret until all was ready. No one know about it and when it went out all was happy to have a customer ready phone. So no one had to cry because the Iphone had delay because no one knew about it. Openmoko decided to took another decision: it decided to share the develop process with the comunity: this mean that before to be ready for production it will be released in different preview only version. Then you have to choose: you 'd like to stay under a bad democracy or in a good monarchy? you are free to choose. If you want a democracy this are the issue you will meet: developer only version, bug that will be corrected only on time, etc. etc. I you like more a monarchy buy an Iphone: it will run soon, is already in production, has some complete application, and has a very big firm that support it. The biggest error that some people do is that they thing Openmoko == Iphone: FALSE Are two different devices, with two different target. In the same way how Linux != Windows And they have different potentiality: freedom has a cost :) So before to buy a freerunner, please think well on what you need. May be you need something else, or is better you will buy in the future. But if you decide to buy, please keep in mind which are the objective of what you buy. Best regards ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
Dnia Monday 07 of April 2008, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano napisał: Just a question, may be it was answered somewhere in th list but why webkit and not the gecko? 1. Memory usage of Gecko (most of leaks got fixed in 1.9) 2. Easy embedding of WebKit 3. Rapid development of WebKit. 4. WebKit developers are easier to cooperate with (my feel) -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant catholic god himself invented autotools just for amusement first there was the great flood, then the plague, now autotools ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Release Date
Stephen Pape ha scritto: My intention wasn't a comparison of the iPhone to the Neo. I do run Linux at home and at my office for our servers, I don't even dual boot with Windows anymore because I don't see any reason to use it. I'm well aware of the differences. All I was remarking on is that the iPhone is probably the next best thing, especially if they offer a SDK. The problem I have with this project is that for a long time we were without any information or updates. For quite a while, communication was dead. The big example I already gave, people were expecting the phone to come out in October, even well into the month. That shouldn't happen. If it's going to be delayed, fine, but don't go past your deadline and THEN tell people its going to be months later. Even more strange is that we thought we were so close, within the month, yet here we are 6 months later, with no idea when it will be released. Now, lately it seems we're getting some updates, but I still get a general sense of confusion about the state of the project when I read through emails on the list. We still don't really have any goal date, as far as I know. My concerns don't really have anything to do with the iPhone directly. I'm not questioning which will be a better choice for me, but again, it's really the only comparable phone that I see available. This discussion sometimes appear and then disapper to come back again under different subject. So to get what you may know from the ml (i read this one and a few other from openmoko but the info usually are here and i'm not one of the guys): Neo is in PVT stage this means that it's at the last stages to test the mass production Neo software is in prealpha/alpha/beta: this means that if you need a cell/pda for the day to day use and if you need to rely on it NOW you can get something different Neo isn't ready, no date given regard this point you can say everything you want, the guys from openmoko / FIC gave some dates some time ago, they passed without the freerunner was ready due to some design problem, this is a plus for us, they simply can say we are working on a linux open phone and when they are ready say ok, we got it working but they choose the open way, communicating with the community, updating us on the state of the phone, discussing with us about hints or what to do, can you see something similar with any company? Personally not so i realy appreciate this. The freerunner is late on the dates that were given by FIC, this is not a problem, i'm still waiting for it. An example is the iphone it's development was secret, there were only some rumors about it, here you can see the progress and the problems! when the neo wil come out it will be ready WRONG!! the HARDWARE will be ready but the software will be usable i hope but won't be ready, you could also use the qtopia images, may be also android when it will be ready, it's up to you Neo is closed due to some NDAs well there are some problems regarding some NDAs (glamo if i'm not wrong) but the guys are working on it but the freerunner is the most open phone you can get now (neo 1973 and the freerunner when it will be out) may be i've forgot something but the latest infos are here i suppose Bye! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: location-oriented services
Thanks I will join this project and try and help out with testing etc. There are suitable differences to make things interesting. I am personally interested in the amounts of network traffic that are generated with these approaches. Looking forward to the code, John. On 07/04/2008, Chia-I Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, There is an on-going work on projects.openmoko.org to provide similar service: http://diversity.projects.openmoko.org/ The server is a jabber server. We use GEOLOC extension for location exchange. Locally, there is a daemon running. It works as a jabber client (and more). The UIs communicate with the daemon through dbus. On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 12:31:29PM +0100, john wrote: Hi. I have been working on a D-Bus location-oriented service. I would like to get some feedback to help direct the development and possibly get some others involved. There are also some important non-technical issues I would like to address. Firstly, the D-Bus service is a server type process to look-up the distance of other users of the system. It has a simple interface which has been designed to be self-clocking. What this means is you need to ping in location to update your local database of distance information. One of the ideas behind this was to encourage updates rather than be dominated by look-ups. A key feature of updating the database in this system is that transferring the data required is done in a very efficient manor. It actually bit packs the data. This makes no assumptions about the quality or cost of the underlying network. So how would this be used? Well, I need some help with ideas and clients. A simple use case would be to match users to your contacts list and alert when they are within a certain distance. There are other D-Bus location-oriented projects which could be integrated or used in some way. Are there any students working on GSOC projects in this area? It is my intention to release all code including server. This brings me to the non-technical issues. Although I don't have any problems running server processes on my own hardware etc I think there are some issues which need to be addressed. I understand the privacy concerns of using these types of services and want to make this as open as possible. Releasing the server code is fine but it does not actually mean the real server is some other code doing something evil and logging your data etc. This is where a trusted third party needs to be involved. If these server processes were run from such a source it would be a step in the right direction. How do others feel about this? I know some people will never use these types of services full stop. That is fine. I know others are interested in using them. I personally am not interested in plotting on a map where I am. I don't mind knowing that I am approximately close to something or someone and vice-versa. Anyway, I think D-Bus provides us with a good opportunity to develop some cool applications in this mobile space. Interested in your thoughts? John (zedstar on IRC). -- Regards, olv ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
Will Opera Mini run on the Freerunner? I asked this before, but didn't get a reply. I assume it depends on how well J2ME works on the Freerunner. IMHO, the Opera Mini design (compressing and optimizing web pages before sending them to the phone) is excellent, because it saves traffic (=money) and speeds up loading. I'm not aware of any open source alternative with the same design. A full-featured web browser is great for full AJAX sites, but I think Opera Mini is sufficient for most web use. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Speeding up browsing and lightening the traffic load
ma, 2008-04-07 kello 11:24 +0200, Erland Lewin kirjoitti: IMHO, the Opera Mini design (compressing and optimizing web pages before sending them to the phone) is excellent, because it saves traffic (=money) and speeds up loading. I'm not aware of any open source alternative with the same design. Over the last weekend, I've been working a bit on a prototype proxy doing streaming html/xml diffs (dubbed mldiffs) based on a shared cache, largely as described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy Sadly, going by track record, I probably will not have the energy to productize the thing, but maybe it'll provide inspiration and/or a basis for someone to do so. I do intend to get at least the mldiffs going (currently just need to debug the interproxy communication, other stuff is done) and hopefully add rdiff support for non-ml content (during testing I found the mldiffs to be notably better for markup content so I started with that). Then I'll put the (python/twisted) source out there (if someone's really interested for it now, feel free to ask). Image crappification support would be good, but I don't know, it would really require inserting javascript or at least mucking with the (x)html to work nicely with a browser knowing nothing of this. (You know, something along the lines of click the image the first time, and you'll get a better version; second time does what it normally does.) I'm not sure if that's something I want to tackle with. OTOH, simple crappification controlled from a configuration key on the client might be doable with my concentration levels, we'll see. Oh yeah, the interproxy communication thing would need some work as well, currently being plain http. My intent is to personally use ssh -C for a transport service, so I'll get for free persistent protocol compression (on top of the ml/rdiff) and encryption for the over-the-air part. Someone more proficient in twisted would likely easily write a nice compact persistent custom protocol with internal async muxing and stuff. Annyway, thought I'd mention this even though, as said, my proxy is in a prototype stage, because, you know, this being an open phone, there's no need for one to limit oneself to proprietary solutions, even if there's not a free one available right this instant. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
Just some questions... Does OpenMoko include a web browser? If yes: Is it included in wurfl[1] file? Does it send x-wap-profile header with a link to a rdf describing its capabilities[2]? Perhaps this could help to implement a Device Description to help web servers to send the right content to the device... Read more about this W3C group[3] Best regards, [1] http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ [2] http://www.developershome.com/wap/detection/detection.asp?page=profileHeader [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C_Device_Description_Working_Group 2008/4/7, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You really might consider using links -g for that. It's blazingly fast (speed is _only_ limitted by the connection!), needs nearby no ressources and it can save some traffic by turning pictures off. Opera Mini uses a kind of transparent proxy to compress the sites - it would be possible to create a own service for that. Some mobile providers offer similar services free of charge. A small problem is, that links lacks a touchscreen-friendly UI (however, it's still usable with a stylus or fingertip) and allows vertical scrolling for some sites. In my honest opinion a iphone-browser is not the solution - it's a tribute to bad webdesign, nothing else. Desktop-like rendering and therefore needed zooming is exhausting and is leading rendering to the point auf absurdity. Rendering is used to make things fit - not to make them look the same whereever it's used. On 4/7/08, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will Opera Mini run on the Freerunner? I asked this before, but didn't get a reply. I assume it depends on how well J2ME works on the Freerunner. IMHO, the Opera Mini design (compressing and optimizing web pages before sending them to the phone) is excellent, because it saves traffic (=money) and speeds up loading. I'm not aware of any open source alternative with the same design. A full-featured web browser is great for full AJAX sites, but I think Opera Mini is sufficient for most web use. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.es ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS refresh maps?
Thanks Marcus, We're currently showing the Openmoko to a lot of people to create interest in a number of different projects; TangoGPS is always *the* app that gets demoed. Cheers, Joseph On 07/04/2008, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 16:16 -0700, John Locke wrote: Fantastic work on TangoGPS--it's seen more use than anything else on my Neo... and today I just tested out the tracking feature, following Marcus's instructions to upload my map to openstreetmap.org for some trails in a local park... great fun! That brings up a question, though--when my contributions reach the map, how do I refresh the maps I've already downloaded? Is there a setting to make TangoGPS check to see if there's a newer version of a tile? I'm not set up for GPRS, and I've got quite a few tiles downloaded to the sd card I'd rather not lose... Hi John, inspired by your mail and Sean's latest blog post, I released version 0.7.98 - which does exactly what you want :o) Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
thomasg wrote: In my honest opinion a iphone-browser is not the solution - it's a tribute to bad webdesign, nothing else. Desktop-like rendering and therefore needed zooming is exhausting and is leading rendering to the point auf absurdity. Rendering is used to make things fit - not to make them look the same whereever it's used. My opinion is just the opposite. There where many attempts to create something like a mobile web. And all failed miserably. (wap, imode, crappy limited browsers) I think it is time to stop making futile attempts to change the web and begin to change mobile browsers and how they are used. The iPhone browser is a good example and by far not the only one. Since mobile browsers take the web as it is, they suddenly became cool. There is nothing wrong with optimizing the data stream for mobile usage (compression, image crappyfication) as long as the page layout stays the same. But even this constraint begins to fade away since UMTS. (Ok, not for the Neo/Feedrunner) Neo has enough horsepower and pixels to provide a decent web experience. I have tested the built in browser (with usb net not GPRS) and it works just fine. Stable layout, wonderful text rendering courtesy of the extremely high dpi of the screen. It just needs some usability tweaks. Like scrolling without the scrollbars. Like Opera does (not opera mini) on the Nokia N770 and successors. Which are by the way a good example for a really good mobile browsing experience. They have a larger screen, but not much more pixels than we. Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
2008/4/7, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My opinion is just the opposite. There where many attempts to create something like a mobile web. And all failed miserably. (wap, imode, crappy limited browsers) Yes, that's the reason for One Web[1]: One Web means making, as far as is reasonable, the same information and services available to users irrespective of the device they are using. However, it does not mean that exactly the same information is available in exactly the same representation across all devices. The context of mobile use, device capability variations, bandwidth issues and mobile network capabilities all affect the representation. Furthermore, some services and information are more suitable for and targeted at particular user contexts I think it is time to stop making futile attempts to change the web and begin to change mobile browsers and how they are used. The iPhone browser is a good example and by far not the only one. Since mobile browsers take the web as it is, they suddenly became cool. I am not sure about that: - A handheld device won't be bigger than my hand, so text and images usually get resized to very small fonts, not readable, so I need to do zoom in specific zones. And when I don't know the site, I need to move right/left/down/up all the time. Not very usable after all. - A handheld device doesn't have (and won't have) my deskotp device horsepower... Maybe it supports complex JavaScript, but then intense javascript webpages will take too much to load, i.e. And what about flash? - A handheld device hasn't got a mouse, It uses other pointer resources.. just think about those cool mouse events available for desktop versions Neo has enough horsepower and pixels to provide a decent web experience. I have tested the built in browser (with usb net not GPRS) and it works just fine. Stable layout, wonderful text rendering courtesy of the extremely high dpi of the screen. Yes, nice hardware. But as I said before, I think this device should be included in mobile browsers databases to let content adaptions server switch to an optimized version of the site if the user request it. It just needs some usability tweaks. Like scrolling without the scrollbars. Like Opera does (not opera mini) on the Nokia N770 and successors. Which are by the way a good example for a really good mobile browsing experience. They have a larger screen, but not much more pixels than we. On my Maemo devices I usually use 'mobile' versions of some websites because they provide better user experience (it loads faster i. e. compare how much take to load google reader) [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/#OneWeb -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.es ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner [1] http://blog.automated.it/2008/04/07/is-3g-an-important-feature/ Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote: 2008/4/7, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It just needs some usability tweaks. Like scrolling without the scrollbars. Like Opera does (not opera mini) on the Nokia N770 and successors. Which are by the way a good example for a really good mobile browsing experience. They have a larger screen, but not much more pixels than we. On my Maemo devices I usually use 'mobile' versions of some websites because they provide better user experience (it loads faster i. e. compare how much take to load google reader) Mobile versions for certain pages are a reasonable choice. But nothing you can depend on. The Web[tm] just is not mobile. At least not yet. This is the reason why there is no alternative to a full blown working browser. And there is a clear trend for mobile sites. They are not some WAP crap with no layout at all but full html with limited design. Like no 3 column layout, default fonts maybe smaller pictures and so on. This is technology that scales. That's just design optimized for mobile usage based on current technology. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it is a good idea. But changing the web on the browser side (too much) is plain stupid. So i think it is just futile do argument which feature a mobile browser should support and which not. (besides some minor .css aadjustments to reflect the limited screen estate) It just needs to be complete. Crippling pages can only be optional. There will always be a page that just needs to be rendered as it was intended. There is for example nothing wrong with a mobile site that uses AJAX. And a stupid complex site which does not work well on mobile devices is probably more defect after converting it so some limited mobile rendering as it would be with just leaving it as it is. Just my 2 Eurocents Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Monday 07 April 2008 14:00:42 Federico Lorenzi wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner Depends on what you mean by 3G? If you mean 3G as in HSPA then yes, it's a useful feature to have when out of range of WiFi, and it's got reasonable deployment (in the UK anyway... don't know about other countries). It also depends on timescales. Given the Freerunner should last us a few years, it might be better to see who wins out in the WiMAX vs LTE battle that's about to be waged and include the victor. (My money's on LTE BTW, certainly in the EU). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Product Update
May the test gods be with you. This product will leapfrog the iPod and provide pleasure to all five of your senses. The user can download pictures, smells, tastes and celebrity tickling patterns. The test group preferred it over eating. They're all dead. It has the coolness factor. - Dilbert and The Boss -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:44 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: Product Update It's the final push people so everybody keep your good humour. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Loosing your moko
Sebastian Billaudelle wrote: Hi there! I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen... I got the following idea: If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a special keyword/passphrase to your moko. It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a server. So you can see it's position. cheers Sebastian Hi, My view on the topic is the following : 1) Passive GPS tracker - saves the position each hour (e.g.) 2) sends these positions each day (e.g.) in combination with IMEI (or anything constant to the phone (no matter the flash or the SIM) 3) to a server (OpenMoko of user's) 4) via SMS/GPRS (if possible : free) [maybe try each way...] 5) should be configurable, but have a working in-flash configuration with default destination server (track.openmoko.com ?) 6) The default destination server would allow access to the original buyer which will have received its connection settings on paper with his phone. Details : 2) allows a phone-unique identification and low network overhead 4) The way (and the frequency) should be configurable by the user so as to minimize its impact on communication costs. The default configuration should silently try even without SIM on all possible network accesses. 5)+3) should allow a skilled user (or communities) to install their own server if they don't trust OpenMoko enough [free software] 6) would need a default install by OpenMoko and a link from hardware to the material being finally sent. So... I don't know if this is coherent, but I think it would be the more resistant way of being steal-proof. * If I loose or let my Moko being stolen, I can find my connection parameters (on the paper) and go to track.openmoko.com and there I can find 24 coordinates a day. This could help me find it back or help the police find it back. Of course, if the Moko is turned off, it won't be possible to track it. But as soon as it is turned on again (even if flashed with default image), it will restart to send coordinates to the default server with its SIM-change and flash-change prone ID. * I as user can take the freedom to deactivate it to protect my positions and/or save money (depending on the costs induced by the GPS tracker) Regards, Didier Raboud ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?
Does it not work with the NOR because some chip selects or other similar #define type thing needs to be updated? Or is it not ever going to work with NOR flash? Thanks, Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:18 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2? Hi Matthew, I have checked with the experts. GTA01 debug board will work with GTA02 (Freerunner), with some exceptions: 1. You can not program NOR FLASH 2. I2C and SPI aren't available on the debug board The main functions, JTAG and serial console, will be just fine. And you CAN program NAND FLASH. Michael Crane, Matthew wrote: Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well? How much of a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being? Matt *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Andros *Sent:* Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM *To:* Openmoko List *Subject:* openmoko on ebay I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can, It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 good luck -- Jeff O|||O ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Release Date
The biggest error that some people do is that they thing Openmoko == Iphone: FALSE I think comparisons with the iPhone are inevitable and, when discussing the consumer market, absolutely justified. Speaking to someone that isn't into FOSS, you might start by saying well, it's a small phone form factor, like a PDA - but the display takes up most of the front. You can phone people, text, check your email, it has an on-screen keyboardLike an iPhone?. What's the distinction, the philosophy behind the operating system? Hardly visible to the average customer. Whether or not the Moko came first, who had the idea first, who began working on it first, isn't really relevant. The iPhone is a smartphone carrying out many of the same functions as the Moko, and is the product everyone has heard of. For the average user, when the Moko is released consumer-ready, say, early next year - it will probably be entirely justified for the consumer to respond - but why not just buy a third gen iphone? or why not buy some of the competition that O2, Sony, Nokia and the rest will probably produce in the next few months? Nokia have already produced some fantastic Linux-based devices with the N800 and N810. The only thing they don't do is receive phonecalls! Sean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
2008/4/7, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mobile versions for certain pages are a reasonable choice. But nothing you can depend on. True The Web[tm] just is not mobile. At least not yet. The Web shouldn't be mobile neither desktop... it should be ubiquos This is the reason why there is no alternative to a full blown working browser. Who wants an alternative to full blown working browser? Browsers should describe their capabilities somehow, that's all. And there is a clear trend for mobile sites. They are not some WAP crap with no layout at all but full html with limited design. Like no 3 column layout, default fonts maybe smaller pictures and so on. This is technology that scales. That's just design optimized for mobile usage based on current technology. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it is a good idea. But changing the web on the browser side (too much) is plain stupid. Yes, it should be the servers what adapt the content to the context the request has been made. For example: - If I have a my locale set to spanish, I expect a spanish version of the site - If I use a mobile without javascript, or it is disabled, I expect a site that works whitout any javascript So i think it is just futile do argument which feature a mobile browser should support and which not. (besides some minor .css aadjustments to reflect the limited screen estate) It just needs to be complete. Crippling pages can only be optional. There will always be a page that just needs to be rendered as it was intended. There is for example nothing wrong with a mobile site that uses AJAX. And a stupid complex site which does not work well on mobile devices is probably more defect after converting it so some limited mobile rendering as it would be with just leaving it as it is. Right, webkit is complete, the idea is 'tell somewhere' what features it supports. Best regards, -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.es ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
I cannot agree. We're not talking about the tries to create a mobile web, like wap and co. did. They had some good ideas, but the concept was useless, because nobody wanted to have a second, way smaller net. We're talking about rendering normal webpages to make them fit the devices screen. The neo has a damn good screen and a pretty high resolution, but this will not be enough for all the crappy designed websites out there. Where ever you go, you'll find sites with requires minimum 1024x768... - this means they expect you to have your browser window at least 1000 pixel wide. The neo can do 640 in landscape-, 480 in portrait-mode (I bet the last will be used most of the time), so there is just no chance to browse w/o zooming or scrolling in 2D (imho both sucks). The other thing is, that the neo doesn't have enough horsepower like you said. In fact the neos cpu is so far behind the iphones (and other powerful arm11 devices) that you won't see a light. Check it out yourself with openmoko-browser or midori (both gtk-webkit) - the samsung will run at 100% while rendering and it takes some seconds for every site - even simple sites like google.com. Not to mention the heavy use of ram (at least 15 mb without tabs). Running the cpu at 100% means heaving very high power consumption - also not that good for a mobile device. If possible try the iphones browser, too. It's far more optimized than the webkit-browsers we have on openmoko, it's executed on an arm11 with over 500 Mhz (kicks the samsungs ass) and supported by an dedicated powervr graphics chip. Even this browser needs some time for rendering - and if you zoom and scroll it will continuously have to reload tiles. Then check links. It ignores most of the rendering what kills many of the fancy layouts with many pictures - but it loads every page in less than a second (as long the network is fast enough) without tile-refreshing and things like this. If the webmasters did their job fine, you wouldn't even have to scroll vertically. There also is no need to zoom, because the textsize is like you want it. After all, I think different people like different solutions - but I want to read, not to wait - scroll - wait - scroll - zoom - watch fancy graphics - zoom again, ... On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thomasg wrote: In my honest opinion a iphone-browser is not the solution - it's a tribute to bad webdesign, nothing else. Desktop-like rendering and therefore needed zooming is exhausting and is leading rendering to the point auf absurdity. Rendering is used to make things fit - not to make them look the same whereever it's used. My opinion is just the opposite. There where many attempts to create something like a mobile web. And all failed miserably. (wap, imode, crappy limited browsers) I think it is time to stop making futile attempts to change the web and begin to change mobile browsers and how they are used. The iPhone browser is a good example and by far not the only one. Since mobile browsers take the web as it is, they suddenly became cool. There is nothing wrong with optimizing the data stream for mobile usage (compression, image crappyfication) as long as the page layout stays the same. But even this constraint begins to fade away since UMTS. (Ok, not for the Neo/Feedrunner) Neo has enough horsepower and pixels to provide a decent web experience. I have tested the built in browser (with usb net not GPRS) and it works just fine. Stable layout, wonderful text rendering courtesy of the extremely high dpi of the screen. It just needs some usability tweaks. Like scrolling without the scrollbars. Like Opera does (not opera mini) on the Nokia N770 and successors. Which are by the way a good example for a really good mobile browsing experience. They have a larger screen, but not much more pixels than we. Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
If you ask me: drop wifi, add hsdpa. But nobody asks me. :( Wimax won't be of any relevance for mobile devices in the future, so no need to deal with it. I think it's too early to talk about LTE yet, let's stay with what we have: HSDPA. Phase 4 is coming, means up to 10 mbit/s gross (maybe 8 mbit/s net) and Phase 2 (about 2.8 mbit/s net in my personal tests) is pretty common and already used in some mobiles. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Tom Cooksey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 14:00:42 Federico Lorenzi wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner Depends on what you mean by 3G? If you mean 3G as in HSPA then yes, it's a useful feature to have when out of range of WiFi, and it's got reasonable deployment (in the UK anyway... don't know about other countries). It also depends on timescales. Given the Freerunner should last us a few years, it might be better to see who wins out in the WiMAX vs LTE battle that's about to be waged and include the victor. (My money's on LTE BTW, certainly in the EU). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Hey Are you trying to influence the poll? No, 3g is essential won't register... a popup tells me to select a valid choice :) -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Monday 07 April 2008 15:56, Brad Midgley wrote: Hey Are you trying to influence the poll? No, 3g is essential won't register... a popup tells me to select a valid choice :) hehe, if I was trying to do that you'd have : Is 3g important... 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. It looks to me as if your vote was accepted : No. 3g is essential.xxx.xxx.xxx.215 xxx.comcast.net Did you click twice? Do you have javascript on? Does it tell you that you already voted? Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
I'd happily trade wifi for 3G. Well, that is... Until Openmoko begins offering a wifi service for under $20 a month that allows me to do streaming internet radio in my car. :) Wifi is worthless with 110 mile daily commute. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 15:56, Brad Midgley wrote: Hey Are you trying to influence the poll? No, 3g is essential won't register... a popup tells me to select a valid choice :) hehe, if I was trying to do that you'd have : Is 3g important... 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. It looks to me as if your vote was accepted : No. 3g is essential.xxx.xxx.xxx.215 xxx.comcast.net Did you click twice? Do you have javascript on? Does it tell you that you already voted? Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Dnia Monday 07 of April 2008, thomasg napisał: If you ask me: drop wifi, add hsdpa. But nobody asks me. :( HSDPA has sense IF you can have unlimited transfer. Here all operators sell few GB pack after which all you get is 16-32kbps. So I would prefer WiFi probably. But my next phone will rather be Windows Mobile powered as I do not think that Freerunner will be good enough to replace current phone. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Real programmers don't document. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote: 2008/4/7, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mobile versions for certain pages are a reasonable choice. But nothing you can depend on. True The Web[tm] just is not mobile. At least not yet. The Web shouldn't be mobile neither desktop... it should be ubiquos This is the reason why there is no alternative to a full blown working browser. Who wants an alternative to full blown working browser? The Thread was develping in this direction. :) Browsers should describe their capabilities somehow, that's all. That is what you meant. Others really think mobile browsers should be crippled. Or that is at least what i understood. :) Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Monday 07 April 2008 16:27, Brad Midgley wrote: Andy 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push polling? You would need to load the question too. The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from Florida. Shame, we could have had pregnant Brad's ;) Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Monday 07 April 2008 16:46, Andy Powell wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 16:27, Brad Midgley wrote: Andy 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push polling? You would need to load the question too. The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from Florida. Shame, we could have had pregnant Brad's ;) Andy Apologies for the ' Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Andy 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push polling? You would need to load the question too. The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from Florida. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
I think you should reply and apologize for the double post too :p On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 16:46, Andy Powell wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 16:27, Brad Midgley wrote: Andy 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push polling? You would need to load the question too. The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from Florida. Shame, we could have had pregnant Brad's ;) Andy Apologies for the ' Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Monday 07 April 2008 17:07, Federico Lorenzi wrote: I think you should reply and apologize for the double post too :p On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 16:46, Andy Powell wrote: On Monday 07 April 2008 16:27, Brad Midgley wrote: Andy 1. Yes. 2. No and I kill kittens. yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push polling? You would need to load the question too. The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from Florida. Shame, we could have had pregnant Brad's ;) Andy Apologies for the ' Andy Only if you apologise for top posting :P Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On ma, 2008-04-07 at 14:00 +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner Interesting choice of words; this discourages everyone who doesn't think 3G is essential from voting, even though the vote itself has other choices. :] Personally, for my two cents, for the successor it pretty much is essential. I will buy at least one if not two Freerunners into my family (having already one 1973). The GPRS will provide basic connectivity well enough; having a slow net is infinitely better than none at all. For the successor to be an attractive enough _upgrade_ to that, it'll pretty much have to have 3G (UMTS). EDGE, not really worth it, unless it's somehow a lot sexier in other ways. And there is the thing that they're already starting to talk about running down the 2G networks here in Finland... (Sure, it'll be just talk for years, but anyway, for confidence in longevity and all that jazz.) Oh yeah, in light of what they're talking about replacing it in rural areas, 900 MHz support for UMTS would be nice as well ;P Now, for HSDPA, it isn't really essential (though obviously _nice_). Basic old-school 384k UMTS would be quite an okay tradeoff. Anyway, for now, still anxious for the Freerunner. Cheerio. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:00 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner I'll miss Edge when I swap my blackberry for the FreeRunner. Wifi will hopefully mean I won't notice. Either way I still want UMTS in the next version. If the next version doesn't have UMTS, I don't know what it could offer which would make me upgrade, short of my old one wearing out. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a US resident, 3G is pretty useless to me. Mostly because it costs AT LEAST an additional $30 a month to utilize it. I'm also not sure it's available in my area. I'm also a US resident and the unlimited plan on my carrier is $19.99 a month. WiFi, on the other hand, is free when it's available (which is admittedly scarce in some areas). The main trade offs between wifi and 3G, IMO, are consistancy. In this area, 3G is EVERYWHERE but there are few if ANY wifi services that can handle a 50 mile radius without a drop. I see no point in having a mobile internet connecting if you can't actually connect to the internet while moving. -Steven On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner [1] http://blog.automated.it/2008/04/07/is-3g-an-important-feature/ Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web Browser?
ewanm89 wrote: On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:07:27 +0200 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: The current browser is based on webkit and has Javascript, DOM etc. However, the CPU is to slow and the screen to small. Much more fun is 'links' which does have a graphics mode and simply ignores most CSS. But it is blazingly fast and many pages are better readable with it - thanks to the fact that most websites have no longer table based layout but a div based. Thus pages get simply shown sequentially - one div after the next. Even wikipedia becomes very readable on the small screen. I'd like to have something like the browser that iphone has, btw those are my few suggestions [1]. Is this possible? Webkit is the rendering engine of safari (including iphone version). I knew this, that's why I asked if it was (easily) possible :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hardware update
PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
I think the only option would be having _both_, i can't live without WiFI as i would use my phone alot at work and there's a building wide wireless network setup, though having 3G would be nice when not at a place with a wifi service, i'd not want to buy a phone without wifi these days. The nice thing about wifi is that it's free, wherever you can find a open network you have access to everything at no cost, but with 3G you have to pay. For my part costs like 20 nok (norwegian kroners) per MB downloaded, which is insane. Kristoffer Kevin Dean skrev: On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a US resident, 3G is pretty useless to me. Mostly because it costs AT LEAST an additional $30 a month to utilize it. I'm also not sure it's available in my area. I'm also a US resident and the unlimited plan on my carrier is $19.99 a month. WiFi, on the other hand, is free when it's available (which is admittedly scarce in some areas). The main trade offs between wifi and 3G, IMO, are consistancy. In this area, 3G is EVERYWHERE but there are few if ANY wifi services that can handle a 50 mile radius without a drop. I see no point in having a mobile internet connecting if you can't actually connect to the internet while moving. -Steven On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner [1] http://blog.automated.it/2008/04/07/is-3g-an-important-feature/ Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
No, you can chose between 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? or? thomasg skrev: No, you can chose between 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
It never was, from what I recall. The original plan was for a quad-band phone, but due to manufacturing issues, they ended up needing to do two tri-band phones. -- Jacob Thebault-Spieker Cell: (207) 717-5114 Alexander Frøyseth wrote: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? or? thomasg skrev: No, you can chose between 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Talk on OpenMoko at T-DOSE (Netherlands)
I have been invited to speak at T-DOSE (http://www.t-dose.org/t-dose/). However, there is a risk, that I will be going to Singapore at that time. Would anyone be able to fill out for me if I cannot make it? /Ole ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I think you're confusing concepts. We're talking cellular bands. Are you talking 400/500 cpu frequency? -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Okey Now I feel pretty stupid When I am hearing MHz I am thinking CPU and not GSM xD Hehe Sorry about that Jacob Thebault-Spieker skrev: It never was, from what I recall. The original plan was for a quad-band phone, but due to manufacturing issues, they ended up needing to do two tri-band phones. -- Jacob Thebault-Spieker Cell: (207) 717-5114 Alexander Frøyseth wrote: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? or? thomasg skrev: No, you can chose between 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Alexander Frøyseth writes: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I've never heard any projection that openmoko was ever going to run on 400 or 500 MHz -- in fact, I'd never heard of that GSM band, and googled to find it! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Yes xD I discovered for some minutes ago. I feel pretty stupid xD Sorry for that. Steven Kurylo skrev: On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I think you're confusing concepts. We're talking cellular bands. Are you talking 400/500 cpu frequency? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Alexander Frøyseth wrote on 04/07/2008 09:20 PM: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? or? thomasg skrev: No, you can chose between 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo I can choose from 400/500 MHz and 850/900 MHz when I buy the phone? Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Steven Kurylo: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. -- Steven Kurylo AFAIK, PVT is done for an equal amount of 850MHz and 900MHz devices. Also think I remember some statement saying start of purchase is same day worldwide. HTH jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I think you're mixing up the CPU frequenzy with the frequenzy the GSM chip uses! 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 MHz concerns the GSM chip on the Neo (to connect to your telephone provider) and 400MHz is the Speed of the CPU! _ Georg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Alexander Frøyseth wrote on 04/07/2008 09:44 PM: Yes xD I discovered for some minutes ago. I feel pretty stupid xD Sorry for that. Steven Kurylo skrev: On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I think you're confusing concepts. We're talking cellular bands. Are you talking 400/500 cpu frequency? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Don't worry, you're not the first one.. There've been some others who posted about the same thing to the list some time ago.. _Georg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Any updates on the PVT status?
I thought I did an update on this, so let me repeat the update, and add some details. The DVT run, the design verification was completed a bit ago and the design has been verified. For a short Time I had some worries about landscape mode, but Engineering figured out that the issue was driver setting. PVT is proceeding. At least 3 PVT runs are planned and phones from PVT are headed back to Tiawan. During PVT there are always minor tweaks. This PVT will be no different than any other PVT. You build 100 phones, you find out that 85 work, you tweak the process to improve that. You build another batch. Since DVT is passed all that is left is production details. Running the lines, tuning the process. Trust me This is not a time to bug an engineer and ask is done yet? are we there yet? So what happens from here on out. First we have to complete PVT. That means we have to review all the PVT builds And then we have to decide to start Mass Production. And then we have to schedule our start date. Finally, if people want an early sample and can convince me that they have a good business idea, send me mail. I have a very small number of samples headed my way and I want to make sure I listen to ideas and proposals I havent heard. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Federico Lorenzi Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:00 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Any updates on the PVT status? Hello, Just wondering, is there any news regarding the status of the PVT runs? Will a new design be needed / is the current one good for mass production / minor tweaks needed / whatever? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko project future
OpenMoko is a brilliant concept. I hope to buy a Freerunner when it's relatively safe to go in the water. Before we jump down the throats of those who express some frustration about how the release schedule has taken longer than we all hoped, here's my non-emotional comment in support of those who are frustrated. I do no know why, but the OpenMoko project (Hardware and software) objectively is dragging out. From the sidelines, it is difficult to judge whether this VIRTUOUS project will or will not achieve liftoff, or will crash off the end of the runway. yes, absolutely, developing in a fully open environment means everybody knows each and every wart along the way. Apple and Steve Jobs did not have that burden, nor do Nokia, or LG, Samsung, Motorola. BUT the OpenMoko project likely does not have enough financial capital and human resource to accomplish its lofty ambitions. I passionately hope I am TOTALLY WRONG. But the track record to date is dodgy at best. -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com http://twitter.com/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
depends which country you're in as to which form is best. for highest coverage in Australia you'd need Telstra's proprietary NextG format, for the cheaper (10x cheaper) carriers you'd need whatever they are using. i think rather than making any particular network inbuilt in the phone, an add-in module that could be swapped would be a much better way to go. all i really care about is: * makes and receives phone calls * Bluetooth (for headset to comply with driving laws here, and data transfer) * some sort of PDA functionality (organiser, todo list, etc.) I am yet to find a device which does all of those without crashing/stuffing up/being incompatible with next release/not syncing with my Linux or Mac computers. If I want to browse the net while I'm out - well that's what I've got two laptops and wireless broadband for. If I need something quickly, I'm not going to appreciate it on a tiny screen anyway - I don't count the latest YouTube video as a need. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner [1] http://blog.automated.it/2008/04/07/is-3g-an-important-feature/ Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS refresh maps?
On 07/04/2008, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That brings up a question, though--when my contributions reach the map, how do I refresh the maps I've already downloaded? Is there a setting to make TangoGPS check to see if there's a newer version of a tile? I'm not set up for GPRS, and I've got quite a few tiles downloaded to the sd card I'd rather not lose... Hi John, inspired by your mail and Sean's latest blog post, I released version 0.7.98 - which does exactly what you want :o) awesome work marcus, tango is progressing at a fantastic rate regarding the download of tiles, would it be possible to get some feedback on progress of this process? a traditional % complete bar would be ideal. i realise the size of the download can vary wildly depending upon the complexity of the tiles, but either a guess at size, or a report on the number downloaded would be great? or both? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko project future
The difference between OpenMoko and other companies is the transparency. Remember the iPhone? Nobody knew it was happening, aside from rumors. We didn't know how the manufacturing process was going, we didn't know how the software was coming along, we didn't know anything. Same goes for 99.9% of devices out there, the manufacturing/development process is closed. I'm sure it took apple a long time to get the iPhone to where it is. This is party of the beauty of the OpenMoko project, which also seems to be people's frustration. We hear about the manufacturing processes, we know what state the software is in. We know about the things that go wrong with the manufacturing/testing processes, and yet, we do know that the Neo FreeRunner is coming. We know it's coming soon, once the manufacturing process get's tweaked enough for mass production. Please guys, be patient. I'm pretty sure it'll happen, and I'm pretty sure it'll happen soon. If it weren't going to happen, we'd have known, presumably. I highly doubt OpenMoko as an organization would string it's users/customers along, and then just shut the door on them. I don't think any of us can understand what goes into making this happen, unless we've had a lot of manufacturing experience. I for one am willing to be patient. Please join me :) -- Jacob Thebault-Spieker Cell: (207) 717-5114 Ron K. Jeffries wrote: OpenMoko is a brilliant concept. I hope to buy a Freerunner when it's relatively safe to go in the water. Before we jump down the throats of those who express some frustration about how the release schedule has taken longer than we all hoped, here's my non-emotional comment in support of those who are frustrated. I do no know why, but the OpenMoko project (Hardware and software) objectively is dragging out. From the sidelines, it is difficult to judge whether this VIRTUOUS project will or will not achieve liftoff, or will crash off the end of the runway. yes, absolutely, developing in a fully open environment means everybody knows each and every wart along the way. Apple and Steve Jobs did not have that burden, nor do Nokia, or LG, Samsung, Motorola. BUT the OpenMoko project likely does not have enough financial capital and human resource to accomplish its lofty ambitions. I passionately hope I am TOTALLY WRONG. But the track record to date is dodgy at best. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko project future
Am Mo 7. April 2008 schrieb Ron K. Jeffries: BUT the OpenMoko project likely does not have enough financial capital and human resource to accomplish its lofty ambitions. I passionately hope I am TOTALLY WRONG. But the track record to date is dodgy at best. Yes I think you are wrong. http://www.fic.com.tw/ (look at upper right side, above download center!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_International_Computer (en) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIC (de) About FIC: Founded in 1980, First International Computer, Inc (FIC) is a world leader in the design and production of computer motherboards, graphics cards, PC systems, notebooks, mobile solutions, and other electronic devices. Publicly listed on the Taiwan Stock Exchange (TSE 3701), FIC has a workforce of over 5000 employees spread amongst 6 supplier hubs, 10 manufacturing/assembly sites and 7 branch offices. As an OEM/ODM supplier to many of the leading brands in North America, Asia and Europe, FIC has established itself as a pioneer of innovative products, supplying engineering expertise, advanced RD and logistical services throughout the world. You think this looks like limited capital or human resources? You're kidding. jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Speeding up browsing and lightening the traffic load
Mikko Rauhala ha scritto: ma, 2008-04-07 kello 11:24 +0200, Erland Lewin kirjoitti: IMHO, the Opera Mini design (compressing and optimizing web pages before sending them to the phone) is excellent, because it saves traffic (=money) and speeds up loading. I'm not aware of any open source alternative with the same design. Over the last weekend, I've been working a bit on a prototype proxy doing streaming html/xml diffs (dubbed mldiffs) based on a shared cache, largely as described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy I've found a video about links2 in OpenMoko [1]. It seems cool, but not exactly usable with fingers (neither with stylus, really!). [1] http://tinyurl.com/5uexmp -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a US resident, 3G is pretty useless to me. Mostly because it costs AT LEAST an additional $30 a month to utilize it. I'm also not sure it's available in my area. WiFi, on the other hand, is free when it's available (which is admittedly scarce in some areas). WiFi's useful for a lot of things. But, 3G may get cheaper in the states. When the 3G iPhone comes out, Apple may coerce ATT to provide cheap data for it. Perhaps within the existing $20 data plan. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
mtn: network error:(my network is good)
I use openmoko Makefile setup openmoko development enviroment; [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/openmoko1$ make [ -e OE.mtn ] || \ make OE.mtn [ -e stamps/OE.mtn ] || \ ( mtn --db=OE.mtn db migrate \ mtn --db=OE.mtn pull monotone.openmoko.org '*' ) mtn: calculating migration... mtn: no migration performed; database schema already up-to-date mtn: doing anonymous pull; use -kKEYNAME if you need authentication mtn: connecting to monotone.openmoko.org mtn:network error:failed to connect:connection timed out make:***[setup-mtn] Error 1 -- ben ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any updates on the PVT status?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 1. Thank you for the info. 2. I don't know, if someone else asked this question before. I did register ti the mailing-list just e few days before, but I haven't seen an answer to it anywhere. What is done with the 85 working phones? Greetings Bastian P.s.: This is my first mail, so hi at all steve schrieb: | I thought I did an update on this, so let me repeat the update, and add some | details. | | The DVT run, the design verification was completed a bit ago and the design | has been verified. For a short | Time I had some worries about landscape mode, but Engineering figured out | that the issue was driver setting. | PVT is proceeding. At least 3 PVT runs are planned and phones from PVT are | headed back to | Tiawan. During PVT there are always minor tweaks. This PVT will be no | different than any other PVT. You build | 100 phones, you find out that 85 work, you tweak the process to improve | that. You build another batch. | Since DVT is passed all that is left is production details. Running the | lines, tuning the process. Trust me | This is not a time to bug an engineer and ask is done yet? are we there | yet? | | So what happens from here on out. First we have to complete PVT. That means | we have to review all the PVT builds | And then we have to decide to start Mass Production. And then we have to | schedule our start date. | Finally, if people want an early sample and can convince me that they have a | good business idea, send me mail. | | I have a very small number of samples headed my way and I want to make sure | I listen to ideas and proposals I havent heard. | | Steve | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Federico Lorenzi | Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:00 AM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Any updates on the PVT status? | | Hello, | Just wondering, is there any news regarding the status of the PVT runs? Will | a new design be needed / is the current one good for mass production / minor | tweaks needed / whatever? | | Cheers, | Federico | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+tx5lYiDScJJ+7QRArgBAKDLwa//1iigMr/J+kGRfvIw+ENSTwCgl6g1 z7miLRiLAdVfOYpGUFkpgao= =1nP6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Guys It shouldn't be treated like an either-or for wifi and 3g. The phone should have both. Most other smart phones are doing this. It's amazing Apple is able to pull off a phone limited to edge cell speeds successfully. They are unique and probably planned all along to have their loyal crowd upgrading to the next unit anyway. I don't think anyone else in the industry has this kind of power over their customers. We've seen into a lot of the process in making the gta02 and the openmoko platform. It's been very revealing. However one thing I don't think we saw into was making the design tradeoff decisions. When dropping hsdpa/umts/edge from consideration for the radio, some uses for the phone had to be ruled out. Someone determined that the cost and effort of choosing a cell radio with more data features wasn't worth the uses of the phone that required it. This tradeoff has to be weighed again for GTA03. A number of us are just hoping they will determine it is worth the cost and effort to go with a much faster data option on the cell radio. Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
