Re: Web Browser?
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM, enaut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Shannon schrieb: I would think it would be as simple as having a toggle button that toggles from touching the screen to scroll around (up, down, left, right), and interacting with a webpage. If your in interaction mode, then have the tiny scroll bars, else leave them off. in your proposal there is not too much difference between clicking a tiny Button or using a tiny scroll bar... It sounds like maybe you are thinking about this button being displayed on the screen? What about if this button was an actual hardware button, that acted as a modifier key, which altered the effects of touchscreen input, as long as it is held down. Doesn't the Neo have a button that could be used for this? I think this could greatly add to the usability of a touchscreen to have modifier keys like this, possibly even two or three modifiers in future hardware revisions. I think this would give the touchscreen the same functionality and flexibility that a multi-button mouse has on a desktop. I know that some websites make use of interfaces which allow clicking and dragging of HTML elements(with the help of javascript), so it would be nice to have this option toggling between dragging to scroll(or other browser-specific interactions), and interacting directly with the page and it's javascript in a natural way(page-specific interactions). -Hans Loeblich I disagree. We only have one AUX button and I think we need it for other reasons. And I don't want to load web sites that enables drag-n-drop feature. Wouldn't it take too much ram and cpu? If I want a full featured web browser, I can use my laptop. I want to use the Freerunner when I do not have my laptop with me. In those cases, I don't need drag'n drop support. But I would like java and javascript support for the browser. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories. I agree to Open accessories. Thinks I would like to see in the box: - Charger - USB-Cable - Headset I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus - Pouch - MicroSD maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for 80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may not be a useful size for me. there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come back the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at dick smiths, or are unique to the neo personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote: There will be two products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of course) This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks. The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1. and yes, this is a always an issue in volume sales. Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in pricing terms. -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh well), but include *something*. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.
I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.
By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?
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Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
Hans L wrote: This thread gave me an idea which I haven't seen discussed before, though it's probably not useful for the situation the original poster had in mind. Although the transfer of audio data over cell phone audio is very lossy, there is at least one standard, proven way of transferring data by phone: DTMF(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTMF). This idea seems to me very attractive! This tiny URI could enrich the audio stream (from phone, FM,...) like a paper can be enriched with QR code, or a video with asterpix: http://www.asterpix.com Great! Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
if it could work with Weston UM2 :) or any Shure ;)
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.
I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.
By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass
audio output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?
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Re: Buying the lunchbox
Thanks Steve. That's the right way! On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Marc Verwerft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a philsophy and business approach that makes sense for you and for me! Thanks Steve On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:21 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another way to look at it. Openmoko is going to focus on the areas where we add VALUE. Buying the lunchbox from Company A, and reselling it to you, is of marginal value. Plus one lunchbox doesn't fit ALL. If you want or need a secure carrying case, then go to the guys Who are expert in that and you will end up with a better deal all around. The exact case you need. A cheaper price, and openmoko can focus on open source hardware and software. Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A USB charger is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall charger or a car charger. If you go to ebay and type in usb charger you get plenty of hits starting from a few dollars. The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB protocol and thus can't say hey, you can take as much as you want and I'll give you as much as I have. They simply offer voltage and current on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug. So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one from Apple or one from eBay. best, marcus On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
That's really great news! And by the way, Steve, thank you for the constant updates (and the whole bunch of updates of today), it feels great beeing informed! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, all, On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. : So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild results are good. Thanks for the update! I'm really looking forward to swiping my PayPal account :-) Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
El Saturday, 12 de April de 2008 23:13:40 Ajit Natarajan va escriure: A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector. It is a sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen. When affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off. Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner? Or does the Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating? If a protector is needed, will there be an option to purchase it? I Use a A4 sheet of laser printer for overhead projectors film. I printed a grid 46 mm x 60mm on the sheet the I cut the protectors on demand. They fit nicely if the are inserted first on the left side of the neo. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
So you could use that interrupt to stop the music and begin the call? On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Fr 11. April 2008 schrieb Flemming Richter Mikkelsen: On 4/11/08, Jens Fursund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Freerunners! I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call (as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of course). This is a great idea. I think the the headset only have one button for muting the mic. But not sure. The headset button does mute the mic. It's main function however is to trigger a hardware interrupt to the CPU, which can be used to start the actions you need to take a pending call. This IRQ function is not depending on on the mute, but mute is just a side effect of the way the button inside the headset works. cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
I agree I love to buy my NEO soon, lets hope they don't break them xD ramsesoriginal skrev: That's really great news! And by the way, Steve, thank you for the constant updates (and the whole bunch of updates of today), it feels great beeing informed! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, all, On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. : So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild results are good. Thanks for the update! I'm really looking forward to swiping my PayPal account :-) Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The headset button does mute the mic. It's main function however is to trigger a hardware interrupt to the CPU, which can be used to start the actions you need to take a pending call. This IRQ function is not depending on on the mute, but mute is just a side effect of the way the button inside the headset works. Which is unforunately not working at all on GTA01 - and has not been for some months. In fact, I've never heard anyone say they'd ever had it working. No interrupt, nothing on /dev/input/eventn, nothing. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly to it), I think it should be included. [SNIP] Now that's a good idea. +1 on this one! -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
to it), I think it should be included.
I also agree with including the charger. As for the pouch and the stylus,
they would be nice, but if needed they can be cut off.
Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really
really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so
it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy
a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself).
Ivo
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
if it could work with Weston UM2 :) or any Shure ;)
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.
I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but
the key thing is that standard items really do work well.
By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass
audio output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Hi, On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:56:10 +0100 Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly to it), I think it should be included. as far as I understand, the Y-cable was needed when you want to power your neo at the same time you want to connect an external device to it. So the cable is not needed if you just want to attach an usb device. Greetings Andreas Kemnade signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 12:36 +0200, Andreas Kemnade wrote: It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly to it), I think it should be included. as far as I understand, the Y-cable was needed when you want to power your neo at the same time you want to connect an external device to it. So the cable is not needed if you just want to attach an usb device. AFAIK the Freerunner provides only 100mA. If you want to connect an external usb-powered harddrive you need another power source. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
count on my vote on this one, Y cable must be a must ;) --- ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly to it), I think it should be included. [SNIP] Now that's a good idea. +1 on this one! -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Tu correo también desde el móvil. Descárgate gratis Yahoo! Go. http://es.mobile.yahoo.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I have some devices that can only be loaded over usb and some who can also use a proprietary charger. I mostly use usb, because I have a dozend chargers for that. I agree that a charger should be included, but at least we have to know if it will. Also there's still the fast_cccv issue, means you have to explicitly allow the device to charge at a high rate if the charger isn't a usb-host. As there will be no charger included, I think this should be activated in the official distribution by default to allow charging without hacks. It should also be clear, that there is warranty for this method of charging, as there is no officially allowed solution included. On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
Jose Luis Perez Diez wrote: I Use a A4 sheet of laser printer for overhead projectors film. I printed a grid 46 mm x 60mm on the sheet the I cut the protectors on demand. They fit nicely if the are inserted first on the left side of the neo. That kind of sheets are generally thicker, but how they look on the screen? Are they invisible as the (best) lcd protector are? How do you attach it to the phone? Btw, if you can share your grid-sheet... :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
2008/4/14, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. Sounds good, I'm satisfied! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ivo Anjo wrote: Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself). I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
Hi, In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host (according to the OTG spec), only has a USB Mini-B interface (black jack). This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that jack, what causes that USB-OTG cables can't be used. The Freerunner is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey jack), means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). It is only as small issue - the electric layout of both jacks is basically the same (means the Mini-B-jack can be replaced without changing layout or something else with Mini-AB) - but it has some major sideeffects: 1. The Freerunner will _not_ be USB-OTG-compliant, means this great feature can't be advertised for enduser products (as you may have noticed: most vendors advertise USB-OTG heavily if their product supports it). 2. It will be hard to use the OTG-feature at all, because a standard-compliant adapter is mostly mini-A to standard-B (or similar). There might be some cheap mini-B to standard-B adapters, but they are not standard-compliant and may cause problems with some specific devices. 3. Without being able to advertise the feature endusers won't even know that this device can act as USB-OTG-host, because the black mini-B jack implies that the device is only a client. Like said before: it would be possible to change the jack without changing the board layout at all. But as the mini-AB-jack has a minimal different shape it would need to change the breakout in the case, so I don't see any chance to get this done in the current stage. We just wanted to point that out, to give OM Inc. a chance to fix this issue. Greetings, thomasg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi, | | In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host | (according to the OTG spec), only has a USB Mini-B interface (black | jack). This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that | jack, what causes that USB-OTG cables can't be used. The Freerunner | is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey jack), | means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a | OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). It is only as small issue - | the electric layout of both jacks is basically the same (means the | Mini-B-jack can be replaced without changing layout or something else You're right. The apeture on the case is correct only for mini USB, so it isn't quite painless. The OTG socket has a different profile. Micro AB: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/99722.pdf Mini B: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/83318.pdf The plastic case apeture conforms closely to the Mini B profile shape. The thing does work OK as USB host, as you say the cables are going to be an issue. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgDRQMACgkQOjLpvpq7dMop/QCgjc+wJyEUwmBOIZNWVbRJ0yvc yfcAn27FND91JONJ8N/ndiSex6ZaANJe =VY0C -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
steve wrote: [...] your feedback Here are my 2 cents: Must have: Neo ;) Stylus Optional: Charger (Would be useful, at least for end user, so he's sure he doesn't stress a normal usb charger too much (500mA)) Not want: Headset (Most of them are crap and I don't even open the plastic bag anymore, but unless the hardware gets fixed it probably doesn't matter, because you want a battery-sucking Bluetooth headset to get hifi sound) MicroSD (I think everyone has specific needs for his own and personally I don't want to pay extra for a MicroSD card I will never use) Things I'd like to purchase separatly: - Car charger/holder - Y-USB-Cable for hostmode/charging ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: locale the openmoko
I was set up chinese hieroglyphics visibility in my Neo1973 by downloading SimHei font from this location: http://www.webpagepublicity.com/free-fonts/s/SimHei.ttf placing this one to /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ directory of OpenMoko file structure and system rebooting. В Вск, 13/04/2008 в 17:02 +0800, 赵经纬 пишет: hi: first thank you for your reply! i run the openmoko on the qemu. and I followed your steps 1,export LANG=zh_CN.UTF-8 2.Entry to /usr/share/Application and modify openmoko-calculator as follow: Name=Calculator Name[fr]=Calculatrice Name[it]=Calcolatrice Name[ru]=Калькулятор Name[sv]=Miniräknare Name[zh_CN]=计算器 Name[zh_TW]=計算機 Comment=Perform simple calculations Comment[ru]=Выполняет простейшие вычисления Comment[zh_CN]=执行计算 Comment[zh_TW]=進行計算 Encoding=UTF-8 Version=1.0 Type=Application Exec=openmoko-calculator Icon=openmoko-calculator Terminal=false Categories=GTK;Application;Office SingleInstance=true StartupNotify=true but i can't find some chinese characters on the screen. the icon of calculator is still english and don't display 计算器 under your help, i believe that we can let it display chinese! thanks! 2008/4/10, Oleg Sadov [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's possible, but it's not very simple :( We have the same problem with OpenMoko localization in Russia and working for resolving them for Russian (and not only) language. Quickdirty localization way: 1. Setting up of system locale at the beginning of startup script /usr/bin/x-window-manager. For example, Simplified Chinese for Continental China: export LANG=zh_CN.UTF-8 or Traditional Chinese for Taiwan: export LANG=zh_TW.UTF-8 2. Append localization strings to desktop files at /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/matchbox/vfolders. For example, changed openmoko-calculator.desktop: [Desktop Entry] Name=Calculator Name[fr]=Calculatrice Name[it]=Calcolatrice Name[ru]=Калькулятор Name[sv]=Miniräknare Name[zh_CN]=计算器 Name[zh_TW]=計算機 Comment=Perform simple calculations Comment[ru]=Выполняет простейшие вычисления Comment[zh_CN]=执行计算 Comment[zh_TW]=進行計算 Encoding=UTF-8 Version=1.0 Type=Application Exec=openmoko-calculator Icon=openmoko-calculator Terminal=false Categories=GTK;Application;Office SingleInstance=true StartupNotify=true Be careful: don't translate Name field in contacts.desktop, openmoko-dates.desktop, openmoko-dialer.desktop and openmoko-messages.desktop. It seems like strange feature (or bug) of openmoko-today, but c'est la vie -- corresponding buttons at main screen will not be clickable :(... 3. If stars will have good positions in the sky, you can see chinesefied application descriptions after OpenMoko starting ;). Best wishes! --Oleg В Срд, 09/04/2008 в 19:32 +0800, 赵经纬 пишет: Hi I am an newbi, i want to display the openmoko in chinese not in english, and run it on qemuarm. first,i want to know whether we can change the openmoko from english to chinese ? next, if we can , how to do? looking forward to your reply! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I would say that it must have: - the phone - the fancy stylus - headset Optionally: - extra battery - Y-cable Not: - SD card - charger ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Custom cable and custom charger (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
IIRC, the custom cable is actually part of the charger, i.e. charger and cable is one unit. If you think about it, this makes sense: If the cable were a separate unit, you might plug the cable by accident into a charger (or worse, your laptop) that could not deliver 1 Amp, the phone would think it was hooked up to our custom charger and would start sucking 1 Amp. At best, it wouldn't work, worse, it would damage your charger, worse yet, it would damage the USB circuitry in your computer, very worst, it would start a fire. So the only safe place to install the custom ID resistor is in a charger or charger+cable assembly that is known to be able to safely source 1 Amp. I will document how to create such a custom cable, and I will provide sources and part numbers for the connectors, but users will have to be careful that this cable isn't inadvertently used with a charger not capable of providing 1 Amp. Michael Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Lowell Higley ha scritto: 1) include the custom (closed) cable or at least make it an option I do agree with this... Also if the cable is sold only by Openmoko it should be there, since it's a so important thing for using the phone as a standard phone (I not always have my PC around, and neither I should have electronics knowledge to build my own cable). If some people doesn't agree with its philosophy, he could simply choose not to include it on the pack, or simply, to resell it... Imho it would be a too closed view, btw! 2) ensure the manual includes that a standard USB cable will work. Be sure to list the limitations of said cable. (I think the wiki has this but it needs to be in the docs that go with the phone.) Ok, this could be a workaround, but just a workaround for me... 3) publish the pinout / construction of the custom cable. Maybe publish the BOM and your source of those items. Perhaps a 3rd party could make a small ebay fortune out of this item. Of course for keeping up our idea and to help who loves self-making you'll have absolutely to publish these informations! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger?
Marcus Bauer wrote: So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one from Apple or one from eBay. Well, and if I've no idea of what's doing my charger (and most of users don't know it) what shall I answer!? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye. :-) steve wrote: Ha, Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one. Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better then nothing. i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway... JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options
Can I ask that the US product website support either PayPal or Amex in addition to MC/Visa? Thanks, Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:13 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first few thousand buyers. If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great because at every trade show when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update and no more stylus ? On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB host compatible devices
openmoko wrote: I have a question about the USB host feature ... Could it be possible to use a traditional USB keyboard with this feature ? (Enough power ? Compatible plugs ?) I figure this is possible... Can we get an adapter to be able to plug any traditional USB devices ? (USB storage key ...) Well, this should be an item to be added to the package imho... Standard-usb to mini-usb device isn't so easy to found... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I think the only thing in that list I would want with the Freerunner is the USB cable (as I don't have many mini-USB cables). I already have a nice bluetooth headset and MicroSD card. Any of those included with the Freerunner would be useless for me and would seem a waste of money to me, personally. Obviously this is only my opinion. I suppose to others, the USB cable is useless but they really need a headset or something. Everyone will have different needs, so I don't think you should even try to make everyone happy. I say only include the minimum required for the phone to be usable. Everything else can be purchased separately. -Steven On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Joseph Jon Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:13:16 -0700 I think the issue is that the neo1973 came with some items, * Headset * Neo pouch * Kickass 4-in-1 Stylus * Lanyard * MicroSD * USB Cable * Neo Tools (in Advance kit) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB host compatible devices
On 4/14/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a question about the USB host feature ... Could it be possible to use a traditional USB keyboard with this feature ? (Enough power ? Compatible plugs ?) Yes. But maybe not all. A normal keyboard should not draw too much power. But I didn't test this, so it should be confirmed. Can we get an adapter to be able to plug any traditional USB devices ? (USB storage key ...) That is where the Y-cable comes in (to supply with additional power) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Not providing SD card could take off taxes about private copy or other bullshits like that from RIAA and friends... as I said in a previous mail. To me charger should be provided, with stylus, headset and pouch at least. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On ma, 2008-04-14 at 13:29 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... I have a 8 GB one (Sandisk) in my Neo right now. Well, not mini. Micro. Different things. The SDHC spec theoretically goes up to 2048 GB, however an arbitrary cap of 32 GB has been (at least for now) set by the SD Card Association according to Wikipedia. Go figure. Anyway, at least up to the 32 GB mark new cards should work, let's see if they'll break the spec again at that point to sell new devices... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On ma, 2008-04-14 at 13:29 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... I have a 8 GB one (Sandisk) in my Neo right now. Well, not mini. Micro. Different things. The SDHC spec theoretically goes up to 2048 GB, however an arbitrary cap of 32 GB has been (at least for now) set by the SD Card Association according to Wikipedia. Go figure. Anyway, at least up to the 32 GB mark new cards should work, let's see if they'll break the spec again at that point to sell new devices... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB host compatible devices
Hi, I have a question about the USB host feature ... Could it be possible to use a traditional USB keyboard with this feature ? (Enough power ? Compatible plugs ?) Can we get an adapter to be able to plug any traditional USB devices ? (USB storage key ...) Thanks for your answers. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
El Monday, 14 de April de 2008 13:16:40 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) va escriure: Jose Luis Perez Diez wrote: I Use a A4 sheet of laser printer for overhead projectors film. I printed a grid 46 mm x 60mm on the sheet the I cut the protectors on demand. They fit nicely if the are inserted first on the left side of the neo. That kind of sheets are generally thicker, but how they look on the screen? Are they invisible as the (best) lcd protector are? How do you attach it to the phone? I will take some some pictures later this evening. Btw, if you can share your grid-sheet... :P I am using 46mm x 61mm cells now they have more forstability for finger based ballistic scrolling ;) It is in http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/7/7b/Protector.pdf ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Mon Apr 14 12:58:04 CEST 2008 Jay Vaughan wrote: But you still have to hack up a cable to make it work. Thus, it should be included in the Freeruner, in my opinion .. It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory business. The only thing that the the custom charger does is include a resistor that provides GTA0x a way to recognize the charger so that it automatically draws the full amount and [2] isn't needed. Opening the accessory business is A Good Thing. Including a charger is not necessary. [1] http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11566 [2] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/thunder/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I just want a free phone
Hi there, I read some discussions about the accessories to GTA02. In my humble opinion the community should not expect the OpenMoko Inc to provide all the accessories, as soon as the phone is released, especially for the non-consumer version yet. For now i would be happy to get the phone itself, and would bare with the inconvienience of searching for accessories in ebay, or anywhere else. I hope the communyti will start building and documenting whatever accesories are available. It might take some time, but the FreeRunner will popup in the local phone shops after a while, and then I would expect to have a full range of compatible accesories avalable locally. Regards, Breakable ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory business. I want this cable not for charging, but for using USB devices with the Freerunner / neo1973 .. so in that instance, it shouldn't be included? I feel its a bit dodgy expecting customers to hack up their own cable to use USB devices - unless there is a cable that can be purchased out there already that will give us this capability? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
steve wrote: 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while. Don't ask me what a while is. I'll talk about the software release late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release and what will come later. This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for release of software? Are you developing a new release of the software on closed doors and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about testing kernel and other low-level softwares? So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild results are good. This is a really happy news btw...! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
Jose Luis Perez Diez wrote: El Monday, 14 de April de 2008 13:16:40 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) va escriure: Jose Luis Perez Diez wrote: I Use a A4 sheet of laser printer for overhead projectors film. I printed a grid 46 mm x 60mm on the sheet the I cut the protectors on demand. They fit nicely if the are inserted first on the left side of the neo. That kind of sheets are generally thicker, but how they look on the screen? Are they invisible as the (best) lcd protector are? How do you attach it to the phone? I have question about this. What about detachment. Is any glue involved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I totally agree with you, Marco! But I would like to add two important things: -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it, because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit. -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). Two notices for optional gadgets: -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part, and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part) -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve ha scritto: Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are: - AC Charger (better if custom) - Headset (with mic?) - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!) - Stylus Optional: - MicroSD - USB Cable - Lanyard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:47:38 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve wrote: 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while. Don't ask me what a while is. I'll talk about the software release late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release and what will come later. This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for release of software? Are you developing a new release of the software on closed doors and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about testing kernel and other low-level softwares? I guess he's speaking about the factory software ;) Not the neo one. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I am one of those crazy people who use the neo 1973 as their everyday phone, and I NEVER use the pouch. Does any current every day user use the pouch or lanyard? I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) For me, the must have list would be just the charger. However, to me this seems like a super-simple problem to solve! By default (after the 'goodies' release, of course), you just get the phone. Anything else may be useless junk to any particular customer, destined for a landfill. By default, you just get the phone, but you are given a little list of all the extras with a checkbox for each to see if you want it in your package. They are reasonably priced, and shipped in the same packaging as the phone. There is clear text that you will need a Neo specific charger to automatically get fast charge, and that only a 2.5 mm headphone compatible with X mobile phone will work. Something like this: Your shopping cart: 1 $399 Neo FreeRunner Would you like any of the following add-ons? [ ] $9.99 Wall charger (the Neo can only fast charge from a Neo compatible charger or a computer USB cable) (*What is this?*) [ ] $3.99 USB to mini-A cable (*What is this?*) [ ] $9.99 powered USB host cable (*What is this?*) [ ] $2.99 cool Neo FreeRunner lanyard (*What is this?*) ... Of course, I'm sure other answers seem just as obviously correct to others :-) Bobby Not providing SD card could take off taxes about private copy or other bullshits like that from RIAA and friends... as I said in a previous mail. To me charger should be provided, with stylus, headset and pouch at least. -- Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Göring at the Nuremberg trials ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
My opinion: + USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice with a self-made cable... + pouch + lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...) - no stylus - no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive) - no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...) cheers Sebastian Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: I totally agree with you, Marco! But I would like to add two important things: -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it, because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit. -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). Two notices for optional gadgets: -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part, and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part) -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve ha scritto: Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are: - AC Charger (better if custom) - Headset (with mic?) - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!) - Stylus Optional: - MicroSD - USB Cable - Lanyard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie 1. kein ISO Standard sind, 2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und 3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind! Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen - auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I think my main concern is I see USB Cable and USB Charger used interchangeably in these messages. They are not one and the same. So which is that we are talking about? On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A USB charger is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall charger or a car charger. If you go to ebay and type in usb charger you get plenty of hits starting from a few dollars. The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB protocol and thus can't say hey, you can take as much as you want and I'll give you as much as I have. They simply offer voltage and current on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug. So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one from Apple or one from eBay. best, marcus On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Hi, I think you are right. There are two main opinions on getting the phone. The geek way and the end user way. Geeks have other needs or wishes than end users have. What about addon packs to a basic phone with charger? Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a computer, it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a month. I am a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't always have the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense? I'm going to change the topic a little bit. I'm a little concerned about the direction of these messages. It seems like the thought that goes into them isn't that consumer focused. It's more personal opinion based than anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy. I know for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech toys. But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would want to buy? I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted effort to make this a consumer device one day. That was what I was trying to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger. Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of the Neo1973. You want to know what I hear? Man, that's ugly! That's what I hear every time. Now you're thinking so what? it's functional. You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do. I'm guessing no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created. It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the customer. I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a great job pioneering the first freed phone. Just maybe the consumer isn't their/our focus? And if not, will it ever be? The bottom line is who is the target market for this product? That's who I am always going to answer questions for. Anyways, I digress. I'm sure I'll get a few barbs/flames out of this one. L ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a computer, it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a month. I am a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't always have the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense? And I only charge my current phone from my laptop. An extra charger is no use to me. I'm going to change the topic a little bit. I'm a little concerned about the direction of these messages. It seems like the thought that goes into them isn't that consumer focused. It's more personal opinion based than anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy. I know for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech toys. But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would want to buy? I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted effort to make this a consumer device one day. That was what I was trying to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger. Right now we are focusing on the developer release. That is for geeks, not consumers. Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of the Neo1973. You want to know what I hear? Man, that's ugly! That's what I hear every time. Now you're thinking so what? it's functional. You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do. I'm guessing no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created. It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the customer. I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a great job pioneering the first freed phone. Just maybe the consumer isn't their/our focus? And if not, will it ever be? I love the design. People have different taste. The bottom line is who is the target market for this product? That's who I am always going to answer questions for. Anyways, I digress. I'm sure I'll get a few barbs/flames out of this one. I think the focus on a market product can really begin when all the developers got their phone. Now the focus must be on the developers. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:02 PM, NeoSleg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:47:38 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve wrote: 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while. Don't ask me what a while is. I'll talk about the software release late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release and what will come later. This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for release of software? Are you developing a new release of the software on closed doors and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about testing kernel and other low-level softwares? I guess he's speaking about the factory software ;) Not the neo one. Hmm, I interpreted it as the (final) Openmoko firmware that would be flashed onto the device at manufacturing? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neat GPS
I don't know how much you watch XKCD but this comic was drawn few days ago. http://xkcd.com/407/ Maybe this is feature request for TangoGPS? Or other GPS programs in openmoko. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
Then I'll shut up. BTW, I don't hate or love the visual look of the Neo. It's more function than anything else to me. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a computer, it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a month. I am a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't always have the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense? And I only charge my current phone from my laptop. An extra charger is no use to me. I'm going to change the topic a little bit. I'm a little concerned about the direction of these messages. It seems like the thought that goes into them isn't that consumer focused. It's more personal opinion based than anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy. I know for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech toys. But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would want to buy? I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted effort to make this a consumer device one day. That was what I was trying to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger. Right now we are focusing on the developer release. That is for geeks, not consumers. Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of the Neo1973. You want to know what I hear? Man, that's ugly! That's what I hear every time. Now you're thinking so what? it's functional. You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do. I'm guessing no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created. It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the customer. I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a great job pioneering the first freed phone. Just maybe the consumer isn't their/our focus? And if not, will it ever be? I love the design. People have different taste. The bottom line is who is the target market for this product? That's who I am always going to answer questions for. Anyways, I digress. I'm sure I'll get a few barbs/flames out of this one. I think the focus on a market product can really begin when all the developers got their phone. Now the focus must be on the developers. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
thomasg writes: In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host (according to the OTG spec), Will Freerunner be OTG? NEO could do either host or device, but didn't follow OTG spec to do it. only has a USB Mini-B interface (black jack). This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that jack, what causes that USB-OTG cables can't be used. The Freerunner is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey jack), means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). According to the wiki, it will have a Mini-AB ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | thomasg writes: | | In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host (according | to the OTG spec), | | Will Freerunner be OTG? NEO could do either host or device, but | didn't follow OTG spec to do it. It doesn't currently react to the ID status, but it is just a matter of tying the loose ends together in a daemon I believe. It can definitely be host or device by hand. | only has a USB Mini-B interface (black jack). | This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that jack, what causes | that USB-OTG cables can't be used. | The Freerunner is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey | jack), means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a | OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). | | According to the wiki, it will have a Mini-AB Yes that's true, it's a 5-pin mini AB, sorry. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgDiyYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMquOACfecryT/KQi/UdSu9kbnzvDBiP YXQAmwVSG3d2CiQf8Noxk8ry9aiAg3tq =bLxC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I just want a free phone
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Breakable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I read some discussions about the accessories to GTA02. In my humble opinion the community should not expect the OpenMoko Inc to provide all the accessories, as soon as the phone is released, especially for the non-consumer version yet. For now i would be happy to get the phone itself, and would bare with the inconvienience of searching for accessories in ebay, or anywhere else. I hope the communyti will start building and documenting whatever accesories are available. It might take some time, but the FreeRunner will popup in the local phone shops after a while, and then I would expect to have a full range of compatible accesories avalable locally. Regards, Breakable +1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
Exactly, that's the idea of it all. Am Mo 14. April 2008 schrieb Jens Fursund: So you could use that interrupt to stop the music and begin the call? On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Fr 11. April 2008 schrieb Flemming Richter Mikkelsen: On 4/11/08, Jens Fursund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Freerunners! I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call (as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of course). This is a great idea. I think the the headset only have one button for muting the mic. But not sure. The headset button does mute the mic. It's main function however is to trigger a hardware interrupt to the CPU, which can be used to start the actions you need to take a pending call. This IRQ function is not depending on on the mute, but mute is just a side effect of the way the button inside the headset works. cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neat GPS
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:12 AM, christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how much you watch XKCD but this comic was drawn few days ago. http://xkcd.com/407/ Maybe this is feature request for TangoGPS? Or other GPS programs in openmoko. Hehe, this sort of idea could possibly be used for a fun hide-and-seek game. Instead of hot/cold, would be awesome to do the classic beeping(beep frequency increases as you get closer) homing device that you see in movies. Write some software that has the ability to retrieve the location of the target, but the interface does not allow to see the actual location, only gives an idea of how close. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
I guess the interrupt is disabled by default, to avoid IRQ storms while resume/boot. From schematics it looks fine and there should be no issue in *normal* use (enable this interrupt while inbound_call headset_connected). Driver (=software) issue jOERG Am Mo 14. April 2008 schrieb Jens Fursund: Any news on GTA02? Is it working there? On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The headset button does mute the mic. It's main function however is to trigger a hardware interrupt to the CPU, which can be used to start the actions you need to take a pending call. This IRQ function is not depending on on the mute, but mute is just a side effect of the way the button inside the headset works. Which is unforunately not working at all on GTA01 - and has not been for some months. In fact, I've never heard anyone say they'd ever had it working. No interrupt, nothing on /dev/input/eventn, nothing. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
El Monday, 14 de April de 2008 13:16:40 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) va escriure: That kind of sheets are generally thicker, but how they look on the screen? Are they invisible as the (best) lcd protector are? How do you attach it to the phone? I have uploaded a video to youtube http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=9enAgqLWeX0 The video is prety static ( it was made with my macbook integrated cam) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the pouch since I took them out of the box. But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning, because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part of the Neo I find it a hinderance. I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory. I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would be passing unneeded expense to the customer. What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated. I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently high level of quality. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
Andy Green andy at openmoko.com wrote on Mon Apr 14 13:50:27 CEST 2008 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi, | | In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host | (according to the OTG spec), only has a USB Mini-B interface (black | jack). This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that | jack, what causes that USB-OTG cables can't be used. The Freerunner | is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey jack), | means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a | OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). It is only as small issue - | the electric layout of both jacks is basically the same (means the | Mini-B-jack can be replaced without changing layout or something else You're right. The apeture on the case is correct only for mini USB, so it isn't quite painless. The OTG socket has a different profile. Micro AB: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/99722.pdf Mini B: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/83318.pdf The plastic case apeture conforms closely to the Mini B profile shape. The thing does work OK as USB host, as you say the cables are going to be an issue. - -Andy -- This is a problem with the Nokia Internet Tablets as well. The main feature of the USB-OTG spec is that it *automatically* puts the device in host mode when the cable is inserted. (OTG compliant devices also allow swapping host peripheral modes at any time during the connection, but I haven't yet seen any examples where that's particularly useful. There's also a USB power control aspect, but again the usefulness in actual practice is limited.) As the Mini A to standard A female adapters/cables are difficult to find (Mini B to standard A female are much more common), I just spliced together a couple of cables I had lying around to make my own adapter cable. It works like a charm. I have to change to host or OTG mode manually, but that's no big deal. USB-OTG devices should work fine as a standard USB peripheral. It's possible, although a bit more tricky, to make your own OTG cable with whatever plugs you need. If the device that's acting has host doesn't supply enough current for the peripheral, you can use a powered hub between them, although that results in regular USB connections (you lose OTG when going through a hub). In short, USB-OTG is more of an issue with relatively dumb devices than it is with devices that are basically full-blown computers in their own right (like the Neo and Internet Tablets). More info: http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/ http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm?appnote_number=1822CMP=WP-3 Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Sorry, I want to keep things as simple as possible for our shipping folks. So, that's the current plan. I'll make rational adjustments as time goes forward. Think about the 10 pack as a bulk product. That's what it is. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:30 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote: There will be two products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of course) This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks. The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1. and yes, this is a always an issue in volume sales. Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in pricing terms. -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Battery time?
At the Openmoko wiki I have found some info about the battery life for the GTA01 but almost nothing about GTA02 (Freerunner). At least someone must have tested how long the battery last before a recharge is needed? And how long will you be able to talk before the battery runs out, anyone who knows from experience? /tomplast ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB host compatible devices
openmoko at tsleg.com openmoko at tsleg.com wrote on Mon Apr 14 15:12:50 CEST 2008 --- Hi, I have a question about the USB host feature ... Could it be possible to use a traditional USB keyboard with this feature ? (Enough power ? Compatible plugs ?) Can we get an adapter to be able to plug any traditional USB devices ? (USB storage key ...) Thanks for your answers. --- I can't speak for the Neo (since I haven't been able to get my hands on one), but in the case of the Nokia N800 there's enough power to run USB keyboards (even a Gyration wireless keyboard/mouse receiver!) but not enough to run my MicroSD thumb drive. The solution is to use a powered hub. That's not very mobile-friendly, though. You can make your own adapter cable, and while you're at it add a connector to the cable that lets you inject power from a battery pack or USB power supply. I'm going to attempt to hack up a portable battery-powered hub so I can have multiple fully-powered USB jacks on the go. Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
yes, I am trying to balance all of these issues and keep the ordering process and fulfillment process simplified. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:33 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories. I agree to Open accessories. Thinks I would like to see in the box: - Charger - USB-Cable - Headset I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus - Pouch - MicroSD maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for 80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may not be a useful size for me. there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come back the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at dick smiths, or are unique to the neo personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El Monday, 14 de April de 2008 13:16:40 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) va escriure: That kind of sheets are generally thicker, but how they look on the screen? Are they invisible as the (best) lcd protector are? How do you attach it to the phone? I have uploaded a video to youtube http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=9enAgqLWeX0 The video is prety static ( it was made with my macbook integrated cam) Thanks for the video. Now I see how this lcd protector works. I thought that its some kind of colorless sticker. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time?
I think that has been one of the top unanswered questions on many peoples minds. I don't think we've gotten a solid answer yet, but I'm sure it will come in time. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Tomas Gustavsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the Openmoko wiki I have found some info about the battery life for the GTA01 but almost nothing about GTA02 (Freerunner). At least someone must have tested how long the battery last before a recharge is needed? And how long will you be able to talk before the battery runs out, anyone who knows from experience? /tomplast ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
That's a good idea, but for the most part that approved stamp can be fulfilled through the wiki. I'm sure there is already list of compatible hardware / devices that work with the NEO. I suggest you add your iGo charger to that list. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the pouch since I took them out of the box. But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning, because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part of the Neo I find it a hinderance. I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory. I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would be passing unneeded expense to the customer. What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated. I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently high level of quality. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Good question. I have copied Michael Shiloh on this mail. He's on travel now. If I tried to answer your question I would just beclown myself. So, Michael, can you recap the charger technical details. perhaps an update on the Wiki. Charger FAQS. etc. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. I fully sympathise and agree with using easily accessible hardware, but if standard chargers take this long, perhaps the next hardware generation should use something like easily available Nokia chargers or similar. If it were possible to inexpensively construct some adapter cable to existing commodity chargers to charge the Freerunner at 1 amp, that would of course be an option too. I realize this wouldn't be ready for the upcoming developer release. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you attach it to the phone? I have uploaded a video to youtube http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=9enAgqLWeX0 So you're simply putting the protector under the phone case? Doesn't it move around? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I'll add it at some point. The reason I haven't is because right now the Fast Charge applet isn't part of the Openmoko stack. A default image of Openmoko doesn't support this charger in fast mode (which is the ONLY think I'm concerened about, frankly). And... This might show my own biases, but I can't STAND wiki. The general consensus among commoners is that, because wiki can be changed by anyone, they're unreliable. I know this isn't the case, and i do assume that the vast majority of people are doing things with good intention, but having OFFICIAL documentation on a wiki is about as good for the average consumer as having no documentation at all. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a good idea, but for the most part that approved stamp can be fulfilled through the wiki. I'm sure there is already list of compatible hardware / devices that work with the NEO. I suggest you add your iGo charger to that list. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the pouch since I took them out of the box. But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning, because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part of the Neo I find it a hinderance. I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory. I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would be passing unneeded expense to the customer. What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated. I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently high level of quality. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
Am 14.04.2008 um 18:07 schrieb Lowell Higley: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a computer, it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a month. I am a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't always have the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense? I'm going to change the topic a little bit. I'm a little concerned about the direction of these messages. It seems like the thought that goes into them isn't that consumer focused. It's more personal opinion based than anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy. I know for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech toys. But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would want to buy? I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted effort to make this a consumer device one day. That was what I was trying to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger. Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of the Neo1973. You want to know what I hear? Man, that's ugly! That's what I hear every time. I have made the same observations when showing the Neo. An additional feedback came from a former key account manager who had sold millions of phones to Vodafone and other MNOs: it is impossible to sell this industrial design to any mobile network operator because they are fashion and not technology driven. My hope is that the GTA03 will have a much more appealing redesign (i.e. new industrial design, going through some focus groups). Otherwise there will never be a mass market version since there will be no support of any MNO. Look how the iPhone has raised the bar and how the whole industry is following because the mass market starts to take the iPhone as the reference. Why is the iPhone such a success? Because of technology? Not really. There are devices out there with comparable (or even better) feature set (e.g. higher screen resolution, UMTS). It is because it has really new appearance, interaction and materials. The Neo is good and really good hardware quality (I have seen many devices which are much worse) but it is not at all outstanding. Except its Linux openness. But that is something only a very very small target group is interested per se. Anyway, it is too late to change anything with the GTA02. Now you're thinking so what? it's functional. You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do. I'm guessing no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created. It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the customer. I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a great job pioneering the first freed phone. Just maybe the consumer isn't their/our focus? And if not, will it ever be? Let's hope so. The bottom line is who is the target market for this product? That's who I am always going to answer questions for. Anyways, I digress. I'm sure I'll get a few barbs/flames out of this one. For GTA01 and GTA02 it is clearly the Linux hacker who likes to install his own kernels and wants to help developing and fixing the Openmoko software (by spending his spare time). No end-user/consumer. IT departments of large enterprises? No. Just my 2ct from being an engineer by education who has worked 10 years in product management and product strategy/roadmap development of a large mobile phone manufacturer... Nevertheless I see the Freerunner as a project that needs to be supported (just for idealistic reasons). -- hns PS: we work with Openmoko to redistribute the Freerunner in Europe so that you don't have to care about import taxes and missing or complicated warranties. We are already taking preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ok, Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh well), but include *something*. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Thanks Erland,
I'm getting more info on the audio performance. I'll have samples arrive
in a couple of days and test the audio myself.
Bass for music was reported as a potential weakspot. So, I have to listen to
it. Then I have to make my input.
WRT the big CAP. I don't track the passive component changes on the board.
I'm marketing. I track the performance.
So, I'll have a listen and then make my input before we go ahead.
_
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.
I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.
By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.html
we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?' discussion on kernel list again) won't make
it into the Freerunner mass production?
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ATT Sims in US
Hello all, Short version: Will the firmware on the Neo FreeRunner work with all ATT SIM cards? Long version: I've been following this mailing list for over a year and am patiently waiting for the FreeRunner to be available. In the mean time I have purchased (with a contract discount) a new phone from ATT and with this new phone I received a new SIM. The new SIM card I received is one of the cards listed at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT as not working. So I am just curious if I need to stick with the old SIM card I already have (and am using in the new phone) or if I can start using this new card. Now I know that Openmoko has received an updated firmware for the GSM chip that is meant to get these SIM cards working. I also know that Michael Shiloh has updated the firmware on several peoples phones to test out that it works. So my question is does the updated firmware (which I assume will be on the FreeRunner) allow all ATT SIM cards to work (or atleast my specific one)? (The specific SIM card I am worried about is the 71234 G 3022.) Oh and of course thank you to everybody that has put in work on this project. Keep up the great work. Waiting to purchase my Neo FreeRunner, tomjoad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. In the days of Henry Ford, it made sense to say You can have any color you like, as long as it's black. The next year, competitors went wild with colors, leading to the frenzy of of new-car-year style changes that we put up with today. :-) OTOH, today it does make sense to say it, because the CAD files are up. And while nobody could afford to build their own Model T, today many people that can afford a FreeRunner and that want fancy colors can in fact build a RepRap (see http://theories.darwinsys.com/2008/03/09/120508800.html) and make their own cases. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
The RapRep doesn't have the precision needed to build a Neo case, and last I checked, didn't have varied enough base materials to make a study, opaque, and APPEALING case. Put simply multi-colored cases are purely a looks thing. The CAD files are out there and someone who wanted to sell after market cases and felt that there was sustainable demand to be profitable doing it, could. I'm willing to bet that in typical mobile phone fashion there will be a wide variety of stickers and shells for the device long before there are new case kits. For a single unit, it would probably be cheaper to buy a spare case and have an automotive body expert paint it. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. In the days of Henry Ford, it made sense to say You can have any color you like, as long as it's black. The next year, competitors went wild with colors, leading to the frenzy of of new-car-year style changes that we put up with today. :-) OTOH, today it does make sense to say it, because the CAD files are up. And while nobody could afford to build their own Model T, today many people that can afford a FreeRunner and that want fancy colors can in fact build a RepRap (see http://theories.darwinsys.com/2008/03/09/120508800.html) and make their own cases. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Still, poor Freerunners... :'( On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Thanks Lowell. The phone will ship with a wall charger. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update) I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/brando_workshop_ultra_clear_protector_plus_screen_protector -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:57:02PM -0500, Hans L wrote: Although the transfer of audio data over cell phone audio is very lossy, there is at least one standard, proven way of transferring data by phone: DTMF(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTMF). please note though, that if you send DTMF over your mobile phone, the DTMF tone is generated by the network, _NOT_ inside the phone. Your phone is required to generate the tone, too. But that tone is only played through the ear speaker to the user, it is not sent over the voice channel. AFAIR, the DTMF key press is encoded and send over the Um (air) interface to the BTS/BSC/MSC and then in the end converted into actual audible sounds. Please see Page 22 of http://www.chu.edu.tw/~lhyen/wc/gsm.pdf for a graphical illustration how this works. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 01:39:24PM +0200, thomasg wrote: Hi, In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host (according to the OTG spec), only has a USB Mini-B interface (black jack). While the GTA01 and GTA02 can both operate as USB host, they boat are NOT an OTG compliant USB OTG host and therefore doesn't have a OTG compliant Mini-AB socket. Please complain to Samsung for producing SoCs with such a lack of USB functionality :) OTG is more than the software stack, more than the hardware jack mechanics and more than supplying power to the socket. OTG has fairly complex electrical level requirements, too. Those have to be handled in a OTG compliant USB transceiver chip. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)
Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation at potentially multiple locations during the call. There might be one or multiple transcoders of the voice codec along the road. If you can manage to design a modulation and coding scheme that survives all (or even most) of the stages above, I think you have achieved something great. I doubt you will get more than 300bps though :) -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version. Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy dance. He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Ivo Anjo wrote: Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself). I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Sort of off topic here (very) but i think the GTAV3 (or whatever next model) should have some form of firewire, would prove extremely handy whenever your around locked windows machines and feel that urge to poke around ^_^ ontopic: I personally haven't owned a Neo yet, but i think the pouch would probably be most used for travelling and moving abouts, me for instance would most likely use the pouch to protect the screen when going back and forth to work/school in my backpack. But this is ofcourse up to each person what they want to do, as for the stylus: I feel that it should be a part of the package, but for the future maybe some sort of sleeve you can fit around the phone with some accessories could be made? With a stylus holder ( a smaller stylus) along with whatever other goodies one might need? About the headset, i dont know, it's illegal to drive and talk on the phone without a headset here in Norway but shipping some really cheap headset that 99% of the buyers might not use is rather pointless, instead there could just be recommendations on the website or on the wiki about which ones give good sound quality and work well with the phone. Regards Kristoffer steve skrev: Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
How to develop such a phone sock? OK, my mother is quite good at knitting, but... ;-) I could post some design proposals... cheers Sebastian P.S.: I asked my mother and some neighbours: - charger - pouch - lanyard nothing else... Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 12:36 -0700 schrieb steve: Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie 1. kein ISO Standard sind, 2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und 3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind! Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen - auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of the Neo1973. You want to know what I hear? Man, that's ugly! That's what I hear every time. Now you're thinking so what? it's functional. You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do. I'm guessing no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created. It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what consumers want. IIRC the neo came about because a company went to FIC and asked them to build a prototype device (purpose unknown) but never went ahead with the idea, so FIC had this design and Sean Moss-pultz suggested to management that they could sell it as a completly open linux phone. I could, of course, be completly wrong ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 20:06 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I have made the same observations when showing the Neo. An additional feedback came from a former key account manager who had sold millions of phones to Vodafone and other MNOs: it is impossible to sell this industrial design to any mobile network operator because they are fashion and not technology driven. My personal view is looking at the Neo as a Linux computer and not just as a phone - this opens a completely different perspective: as such the Neo is an absolutely unique device. There is only one similar device which is the N810 but it lacks the GSM modem. I know that there are HTC devices with similar hardware specs but the important differnc is that the Neo does have full vendor support. Thus when the Neo is sold there runs Linux on it already. No reverse engineering needed to get all the hardware to run properly. It is a Linux computer that simply fits into your pocket. Whoever just wants a phone has plenty of choice already. But looking at it like the *world's smallest linux laptop* sheds another light on the battery endurance too. It runs just five hours while in full use? So what, a battery is just 20 grams - just take a couple with you. If a stand-by time of twenty days is needed then there are many phones out there just not smart ones. My first computer was an AT286/16MHz with 1MB RAM and 40MB harddisk, EGA color monitor with 640x350 resolution. No network, no internet. 5,25 floppy for data exchange. Weight: 30kg (very sturdy case): Now I can put into my pocket: - 266 MHz CPU - 128 MB RAM - up to 8GB storage - have USB device and host mode - 640x480 display - Wifi, bluetooth - GPS and GSM, GPRS To me this is just exciting. And it runs Linux instead of DOS :-P As Sean said in the very begining of the project: this opens a new era. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Haha. I remember that. I use chopsticks and squizzle sticks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:51 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye. :-) steve wrote: Ha, Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one. Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better then nothing. i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway... JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)
Harald Welte wrote: Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation at potentially multiple locations during the call. There might be one or multiple transcoders of the voice codec along the road. If you can manage to design a modulation and coding scheme that survives all (or even most) of the stages above, I think you have achieved something great. I doubt you will get more than 300bps though :) Somebody already has. May I point you towards the paper Real Time End to End Secure Voice Communications over GSM Voice Channel by N.N. Katugampala, K.T. Al-Naimi, S. Villette, and A.M. Kondoz [1]. The authors claim to have achieved a throughput of 3 kbps with a 2.9% BER. By adding error correction codes the throughput went down to 1.2 kbps with a BER of 0.03%. Unfortunately they have not released any code and I could not find much detail beyond a couple more papers found at [2]. Nevertheless highly interesting to read :) -Adrian [1] - http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/N.Katugampala/pubs/eusipco05.pdf [2] - http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/N.Katugampala/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)
Harald Welte wrote: Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation at potentially multiple locations during the call. There might be one or multiple transcoders of the voice codec along the road. If you can manage to design a modulation and coding scheme that survives all (or even most) of the stages above, I think you have achieved something great. I doubt you will get more than 300bps though :) It has been done - for the minimal case of going through two actual real phones. 1300bps. Basically a voice synthesizer driven by data, and a voice recognition system on the other end. It uses the very properties that GSM/... codecs for speech are intended to preserve in the face of small amounts of bit errors - synthesizing an artificial throat, and exciting this model with data, so you don't get into parts of the codec that are chaotic or horribly lossy. Unfortunately, I can't find the original paper I found. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
