problem booting to NOR?

2008-07-21 Thread Steve Leung
Hi..  I hope someone can point out what I'm doing wrong.

I want to boot into my Freerunner's NOR to try flashing different 
images, but I can't get it to work.  I've followed what's on the wiki, 
and all I get is a brief pop or crackle from the speaker, and then about 
6 seconds later the red LED flashes very briefly.  The screen does not 
light up.

I've tried all combinations of:

- USB connected/disconnected
- holding AUX/POWER for short and long periods of time
- releasing AUX or POWER first
- with/without SIM card installed

I'm assuming there should be some visual confirmation that I've booted 
into NOR - if I plug in the USB cable after following the documented 
process, the device boots normally.

I can get into NAND no problem, and the POWER and AUX buttons both work 
fine during normal use.

Does this happen to anyone else?  Does this indicate some kind of 
problem with the phone?  Would a debug board help fix this?

TIA,
Steve

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Re: openmoko-qtopia Error Loading module

2008-07-21 Thread michael irons
Looks like it is fixed with the 7/21/08 build, but it would be nice to
know what module
 wasn't loading and why (was it simply not there?).  Will have to look
around and see if there is any basic trouble shooting we can do from
the device.

Mike

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Influence of WiFi on GPS readings (200m error)

2008-07-21 Thread Yaroslav Halchenko
Hi All,

Finally I got to play with FR. Flushed todays (0721) dev image and kernel.
Running TangoGPS. While WiFi is on (WEP encrypted. wpa_supplicant
powered ;)) I am having location error (never hit the right spot) around
200-400m with reported speed from 0.5 to 20 km/h (while I am siting
steadily in 1 place).

When I turn WiFi Off (just on my FR, without touching access point or a
laptop from which I am writing) -- location moves to the right spot with
a bias of 10m or so.

Therefore, the question: is that expected? ie that we can't rely on GPS
readings while WiFi is on?  Or from the other side: what is
'documented' precision in GPS readings while WiFi is enabled (and not
actually very actively used, if used at all  since I guess TangoGPS
already had those tiles from OSM downloaded).

Or may be it is just my FR which behaves that way? Did anyone observe
any similar behavior?

-- 
  .-.
=--   /v\  =
Keep in touch// \\ (yoh@|www.)onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko  /(   )\   ICQ#: 60653192
   Linux User^^-^^[17]



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SDR chip candidates

2008-07-21 Thread carmen r
are there any SD adc/exciter combinations which are open source and suitable 
for OpenMoko? i know of the QS1R project off hand..


GTA02 has 4 radios, 3 of which can transmit (BlueTooth, GSM, 802.11) and one 
extremely sensitive to low-power signal (GPS).


im sure the RF coupling / capacitance / crosstalk issues that have plagued GPS 
with SD or Wifi operational, add buzzing to GSM etc will be worked out in due 
time, in fact i'll be buying a future revision myself.. 


eventualy it would be nice to get rid of all the radios and consolidate 
though...

i guess some kind of folded J-pole might have enough bandwidth to work well on 
all the GSMs and 802.11 at once.. 1/4 wl for 850/900 and 3/4 for 802.11..

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Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

2008-07-21 Thread Stefan Fröbe
Hi guys,

as I wrote before ( but the message did apparently not hit the list since I
used a different email address ) I had the hardware fix applied on friday
but used a 0603 cap instead, which fit quite nicely.

After further testing I can only congratulate the OM-team for their quick
and easy fix: whether inside at the window, in a moving train or in narrow
streets, the FR is aquiring a Fix consistenly within about 120s from cold
start under the most difficult conditions, and of course even faster at
consecutive tries ( warm start ).  Under normal conditions, a TTFF of 40s
seems to be the maximum needed even for a cold start, which in my opinion is
exceptionally good!

The SD-Card (4GB) still works as expected by this RF only fix, and there is
no need to unmount it ...

Btw, this was all done with the mwester-andy kernel from 080716...

Big thumbs up to everyone at OM, now let the mapping begin ;-)

Stefan

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Stefan Fröbe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Great work, and I can confirm this to be working just fine !!!

That's an advantage of working in a company in the semiconductor business:
enough people with the skills and tools able to try this modification out on
a lunchbreak - now I get a TTFF from cold boot of 150s under most difficult
conditions:  Clouds / Mist, and  high buildings on two sides.

The previous software-only improvements were of mixed results: only once did
a fix occur, and by far not as fast as the 34s  I got without SD-Card.

Will keep you updated on further results this weekend, but so far it is
great news to see a fix this quickly!

Keep up the great work and spirit,
Cheers,
Stefan


On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Yaroslav Halchenko site-openmoko.org@
onerussian.com wrote:

 hm... or alter clocking pulse sufficiently for unstable SD performance
 with some (or all) SDs... how could we know for sure unless verified
 empirically...  (noone could guess that having SD impacts GPS for quite
 a while, right?)

 I am not yet planing to do this hw mod on my phone, thus I can't really
 compare, and it would be great if anyone having such modded phone (I
 guess OM people) do such a simple test (basic IO testing of SD card
 similar to the ones which were posted to this list before).

 NB It would be really pathetic if then after new 'fixed' units are
 shipped, and new owners start complain that 50% of SD cards do not work
 or get significant performance reduction, right? So why not to make sure
 (I bet they already did smth like that thus it is just for someone from
 OM give results with numbers)

 On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Michael Kluge wrote:

  This additional capacitor has been added between clock and GND for the
  SD card. So it is most probably just there to filter frequencies higher
  than the clock rate itself.

  Michael
 --
 Yaroslav Halchenko
 Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark
 Student  Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT
 Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171
101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102
 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik

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Re: Influence of WiFi on GPS readings (200m error)

2008-07-21 Thread Russell Sears
I've had this problem when the initial fix was obtained while I'm inside 
a vehicle (such as a bus or car) or near a lot of metal.  Going to a 
complete stop, then moving a few times (in the car) seems to give the 
chipset a better chance to realize it's got a bogus fix.

-Rusty

Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 Finally I got to play with FR. Flushed todays (0721) dev image and kernel.
 Running TangoGPS. While WiFi is on (WEP encrypted. wpa_supplicant
 powered ;)) I am having location error (never hit the right spot) around
 200-400m with reported speed from 0.5 to 20 km/h (while I am siting
 steadily in 1 place).
 
 When I turn WiFi Off (just on my FR, without touching access point or a
 laptop from which I am writing) -- location moves to the right spot with
 a bias of 10m or so.
 
 Therefore, the question: is that expected? ie that we can't rely on GPS
 readings while WiFi is on?  Or from the other side: what is
 'documented' precision in GPS readings while WiFi is enabled (and not
 actually very actively used, if used at all  since I guess TangoGPS
 already had those tiles from OSM downloaded).
 
 Or may be it is just my FR which behaves that way? Did anyone observe
 any similar behavior?
 


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Re: Terminal for ASU

2008-07-21 Thread Sascha Peilicke
 *Will* the ASU have a terminal app that works with the Qtopia environment?
 Or is that something I shouldn't expect to work?

Take a look at qtopia.net, several applications for Qtopia are listed there 
(terminal and file manager for example). Don't know if they work on ASU right 
away because they where written for Qtopia. Hope it helps:

http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=2

-- 
Sascha Peilicke
http://saschashideout.de

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Cédric Berger
Sound quality during calls is indeed not that good.

1. Volume is usually too low, but I think it can be modified via
correct settings.
Seems like people not always hear me at the same level : sometimes
quite ok, often really too low.  I have yet to try more...


2. There also is this annoying noise (sounds like interferences), that
both caller and callee can here.
But what I found very interesting is that sometimes, for a few
seconds, it suddenly totally went away !!
I could talk and hear without this noise, but not for long.

It happened more than once, at different locations. I was not moving,
not near identified sources of perturbation, not running special
background applications, not connected via wifi nor bluetooth (it was
disabled via gui didn't check if it was really off). The person I
called, as far as I can tell didn't do anything special either (was
also not moving).

This was tested with Qtopia (not ASU). (booted from SD)



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 04:55, Greg Bonett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Have there been any developments with this issue?  How many people are
 experiencing this?  I'm experiencing very poor audio quality (lots of
 noise, very low volume for incoming audio).  I'm still not sure if its a
 hardware thing of if I've just got bad gsm.handset.state settings.  I'm
 using the qtopia image right now.

 - -Greg

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my neo

2008-07-21 Thread Pritam, Ghanghas (IE10)
Hi

I have been tracking this project for almost an year now. But its still
not in shape where I can buy it. Two things that I absolutely need are:

Good SMS subsystem
EDGE support

Without these I wont be able to use this as my primary phone. I would
have loved to buy it but seriously my personal budget doesn't allow me
to have this as a secondary phone. I currently own a motorokr E6 just
for the love of Linux but the problem with moto people are they don't
release anything
Ezx sources - no sign and kernel they keep on postponing.

My dream neo is:
OMAP3530
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html
I see lot of benefits from this shift
   Camera interface
   Two USB one of them OTG
   On chip 2D/3D accelerator -- I didn't get much info about glamo
3362 still TI looks better
   Host of other goodies that you can look in the page
   And I don't see drivers to be a very big problem, seems like we
will get another community working  simultaneously
http://beagleboard.org/ and TI is in mood of cooperating in this
venture.
Camera - atleast 2mp -- A camera which can support addon lenses and
filter (as suggested by someone in wiki wishlist) will be awesome
Bigger screen 3.5 or 4
EDGE please if not 3G
USB 2.0 OTG that will automatically come with OMAP3530
A smaller stylus - this stylus is good but not for every one please
provide support in the casing for a smaller stylus  as well
Rectangular casing -- the lower portion I think can be easily flattened
and upper portion can also be done with some effort though. May be a
recess in PCB for GPS antenna than putting it on top of it
3.5mm jack -- my current phone has one
Better battery may be some 2000 or 2300mAh will be cool even if it makes
it a little fatter. A device like this must have good battery backup
The kind of framework the project is going towards I would like more RAM
may be 512MB LPDDR
Last thing I want is expansion option(this one also is there in wiki
wishlist). My idea is to use a ne connector that internally uses USB.
The device can be given to the consumer with a dummy module fitted that
just gives the mini-usb 
 But possibilities are limitless 
   -- removable camera -- user may buy the type of camera he wants from
several modules
   -- extra SD card stack
   -- may be extra battery
   -- special purpose radios
   -- mini projector
   -- projection keyboard
   -- HDD
   -- finger print scanner
   -- smartcard reader
   -- Wi-Max or any other future tech
   -- I won't mind if somebody puts a extra processor in removable
module :-) (forget the last one)

And one more thing I browsed the wiki but couldn't find info about the
status and code of SMS subsystem. I would like to contribut in that. Not
the python one, Standard C/C++ one. I don't know python :-(

Thanks  Regards,
Pritam Ghanghas



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Re: headset with qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Cédric Berger
I tried but it indeed didn't work at all. But I have not yet tried to
play with alsamixer.
(on qtopia too).
- no sound in headset and only big bep with speaker.

I installed the version of qalsamixer from qtopia via the feed
http://qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.3.2/
But it is not adapted to the screen in portrait orientation ! Not easy to use...
Does anyone know if it can be configured for different resolution ?



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 07:34, thewtex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Has anyone got the headset that comes with the Freerunner group purchase 
 working
 with the qtopia.net images?  There seems to be a small amount of sound coming
 out somewhere.  And speakerphone goes wacky.  Maybe alsamixer settings?


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Re: Wiki editors

2008-07-21 Thread BrendaWang
+0.75
I am not quite agree the no. 4
In the typical Chinese company, everything we need supervisor's 
permission. Supervisor always make the decision , them, we just follow it.
If our supervisor doesn't make the devision, one thing you can do , is 
GUESS or remind him. But most of Chinese like guess than remind.
:-D

Brenda




Marek Lindner ??:
 On Thursday, 17. July 2008 20:34:40 digger vermont wrote:
   
 - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the
 Eastern style.
   
 I'm curious, what would be the Eastern style?
 

 Eastern people try to avoid all public discussions for various reasons:
 - They don't want make other people loose their face. 
 - They are educated not no say what they think.
 - They are afraid that they get fired (Openmoko one of the few exceptions 
 here).
 - Often they have the feeling that their supervisor should make the decision 
 and not them. So they wait in front of the problem, ignore it and hope it 
 goes away.

 In contrast to that rumors and guessing is very popular here.  :-)


 Marek

 PS: All that is a bit extreme but should you give a feeling.  ;-)

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

2008-07-21 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:11:38 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight.
 ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance.

 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47

What does “strength” mean in this context? Voltage?


-- 
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: pre-flash backup fails

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 05:32:01PM -0700, Jim Morris wrote:
| I followed the directions here
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Pre-Flash_Backup
|
| I could backup the kernel of my GTA02 but trying to use that method
to backup the rootfs failed
| several times
|
| I had similar problems (see [1]), although I got error -84 most of the
| time instead of -110. Unfortunately, I never solved this problem.
| After several unsuccessful tries and no feedback from the list I gave up
| on this backup method.
|
| Does anyone else have ideas?

Yes dfu-util can be a bit promiscuous about which USB device it will try
to work with, I recall it trying to flash my device when I first met it
by talking to USB bluetooth device on that laptop.

I changed it to add

- -d 0x1d50:0x5119

to the dfu-util commandline and it was able to discriminate the
Freerunner USB device properly.

If that's the problem it should help.

- -Andy
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:11:38 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight.
| ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance.
|
|
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47
|
| What does “strength” mean in this context? Voltage?

No, it will refer to the amount of current allowed to the drive the
output transistors in the Glamo's SD-related IO cells.  If they are
starved of current, it affects the rise and fall time of the output, it
is the sharpness of the edges that creates the higher frequency energy
that makes trouble at 1.5GHz we suspect.

Running at strength 0 worked fine here on the SD Card we ship and should
significantly affect those high harmonics.  I eyeballed the clock signal
that results and it's not so degraded.

Basically stopping the clock when idle attacks it the bulk of the time
when we don't talk to the device and the strength setting attacks it
even when we are talking to the SD Card.

- -Andy
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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Dotan Cohen
2008/7/21 Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 see:
 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1781
 /j

 Product not found?


Make sure that the URL ends in 1781, and not 17. The link as quoted
fromSeattle Web Creations' email had the end cut off

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-21 Thread Roland Mas
Andy Green, 2008-07-20 18:50:02 +0100 :

 Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take
 care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read
 packet: that what happens on resume.  I added a patch to stable
 branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same
 SD_CLK performance with or without resumes.

Based on a handful of tests, and without tweaking the new parameter, I
can confirm that the GPS problem seems fixed for me, even after
suspending, even indoors.  Let me get this straight: Andy, you rock.
Others @openmoko: you rock too.  So there.

  Now this gets me wondering whether the Freerunner could sustain an
Openstreetmap editor for realtime map-making :-)

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Homme qui plus rien à dire, citer proverbe chinois.
  -- Proverbe chinois.

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Re: pre-flash backup fails

2008-07-21 Thread Jim Morris
Andy Green wrote:

 
 Yes dfu-util can be a bit promiscuous about which USB device it will try
 to work with, I recall it trying to flash my device when I first met it
 by talking to USB bluetooth device on that laptop.
 
 I changed it to add
 
 - -d 0x1d50:0x5119
 
 to the dfu-util commandline and it was able to discriminate the
 Freerunner USB device properly.
 
 If that's the problem it should help.

In my case that is not the problem, it actually gets quite a long way through 
uploading the rootfs 
to my host via USB, before this happens. How far through it gets seems to vary 
each time I try it.

Thanks

-- 
Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Andy Green, 2008-07-20 18:50:02 +0100 :
|
| Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take
| care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read
| packet: that what happens on resume.  I added a patch to stable
| branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same
| SD_CLK performance with or without resumes.
|
| Based on a handful of tests, and without tweaking the new parameter, I
| can confirm that the GPS problem seems fixed for me, even after

Great... an aside from your email, I think this Debian stuff on
Freerunner rocks... it's a working distro port that does not need Open
Embedded, I only wish I heard about it earlier: evidently my fault for
missing it.

When I get some time I will try to bring X up on it and get a feel for
just how heavy the real deal is on this platform, but regardless
having a full proper OS on there obviously meets some usage cases for
this device already.

Before that I will also try to meddle around and install some more
packages like wpa_supplicant on that default install and publish an SD
image somewhere so it is easier to try, assuming this doesn't make
license trouble (and it didn't exist already).

|   Now this gets me wondering whether the Freerunner could sustain an
| Openstreetmap editor for realtime map-making :-)

Somebody did some work in this direction but I don't have the URL.

- -Andy
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=/YIr
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Re: pre-flash backup fails

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Andy Green wrote:
|
| Yes dfu-util can be a bit promiscuous about which USB device it will try
| to work with, I recall it trying to flash my device when I first met it
| by talking to USB bluetooth device on that laptop.
|
| I changed it to add
|
| - -d 0x1d50:0x5119
|
| to the dfu-util commandline and it was able to discriminate the
| Freerunner USB device properly.
|
| If that's the problem it should help.
|
| In my case that is not the problem, it actually gets quite a long way
through uploading the rootfs
| to my host via USB, before this happens. How far through it gets seems
to vary each time I try it.

Sounds like U-Boot DFU / USB support being crashy under stress, in your
other mail you mentioned it reboots.  I have used dfu-util in the other
direction, sending a new rootfs image, many times though and it worked OK.

Until Mike Montour noticed it the other day, our distribution package
for U-Boot was coming from months old sources.  Today or tomorrow the
U-Boot package in the repo should jump ahead many patches (although I
don't remember any for DFU).  One of the packages allows ext2 / 3 boot
from SD Card, if you are backing up your NAND rootfs so you can try ASU
or another image, you will be able to do it shortly from SD Card boot
fairly easily (after that U-Boot update).

- -Andy

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Al Johnson
On Monday 21 July 2008, Cédric Berger wrote:
 Sound quality during calls is indeed not that good.

 1. Volume is usually too low, but I think it can be modified via
 correct settings.
 Seems like people not always hear me at the same level : sometimes
 quite ok, often really too low.  I have yet to try more...

Volume can be adjusted vi a alsamixer, and the mic can be routed via a 
compressor and noise gate. Audio routing is far from simple - see the wiki:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem
The route indicated for voice calls on the wiki is via the compressor / noise 
gate (ALC) but the state file (2007.2 after opkg upgrade) skips that part. 

Assuming there is sufficient difference in level between voice level and the 
level from the earpiece it should be possible to set the noise gate so that 
it only triggers when you are actually speaking, stopping the echo. The 
compressor should even out the variations in level.

I don't know yet whether the assumption is true; it maybe that the ALC is 
skipped from the state file because it was difficult or impossible to find 
settings that reliably blocked echo, but passed voice. 

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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Al Johnson
On Monday 21 July 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 see:
 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id
=1781 /j

It mentions automatic mode switch from client to host. Is this applicable to 
the Freerunner too?

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Re: Terminal for ASU

2008-07-21 Thread Sven Klomp
On Monday 21 July 2008 05:30:09 Ken Restivo wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 08:20:46PM -0700, Brian C wrote:
  Ken Restivo wrote:
  1. It's an open platform, so it's inevitable that it will have a
  terminal.
 
  2. If it were not possible to have a terminal on ASU, then OpenMoko
  should just abandon ASU immediately.
 
  Therefore, you should feel free to open the bug.

 I'll wait to see if anyone responds with Sure, it has one, or you can use
 any terminal with it, here's how you get it to work, get it into the
 menu/icon/illume thing, make it use the keyboard, blah blah blah.

Hm, I'm using the openmoko-terminal2 without problems on ASU. The tricky part 
was to use the Illume keyboard with GTK applications. At freeyourphone.de was 
a hint that you have to install ONLY  matchbox-keyboard-im (see 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner) and 
GTK applications will start Illume keyboard. I know, it is strange. However 
it worked :-)

Sven

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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Monday 21 July 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
| see:
|
http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id
| =1781 /j
|
| It mentions automatic mode switch from client to host. Is this
applicable to
| the Freerunner too?

We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.  You need to
provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to push it between
host and device modes.

# tell the USB stack the USB socket is logically a host now

~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode

# get the Freerunner to provide 5V out on the USB socket

~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode

set them to device and 0 to go back to being a USB gadget.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkiEVcYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp+OwCePsmB3ST7Km6V7HM1OlmoWPQo
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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Seattle Web Creations, LLC

A good piece of advice*

DO an ifconfig usb0 down first!

On 7/21/08 2:24 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Somebody in the thread at some point said:
 | On Monday 21 July 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 | see:
 |
 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id
 | =1781 /j
 |
 | It mentions automatic mode switch from client to host. Is this
 applicable to
 | the Freerunner too?
 
 We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.  You need to
 provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to push it between
 host and device modes.
 
 # tell the USB stack the USB socket is logically a host now
 
 ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
 
 # get the Freerunner to provide 5V out on the USB socket
 
 ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode
 
 set them to device and 0 to go back to being a USB gadget.
 
 - -Andy
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAkiEVcYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp+OwCePsmB3ST7Km6V7HM1OlmoWPQo
 31YAnjv/5C/ZyY7HyTkGda/y7dV+QQ99
 =nS1b
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
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-- 
Gino O'Donnell / Director
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206.883.7601
SeattleWebCreations.com
Website Design with Search Engines in Mind



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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Mikko Rauhala
ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti:
 We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will. 

Funky.

 You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to
 push it between host and device modes.
 ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
 ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode

There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host
mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some
special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard
cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer.
Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this?

-- 
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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Mikko Rauhala
ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti:
 We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will. 

Funky.

 You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to
 push it between host and device modes.
 ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
 ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode

There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host
mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some
special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard
cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer.
Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this?

-- 
Mikko Rauhala   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/
Transhumanist   - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/
Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/




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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone? / Audio Codec meddling info

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Monday 21 July 2008, Cédric Berger wrote:
| Sound quality during calls is indeed not that good.
|
| 1. Volume is usually too low, but I think it can be modified via
| correct settings.
| Seems like people not always hear me at the same level : sometimes
| quite ok, often really too low.  I have yet to try more...
|
| Volume can be adjusted vi a alsamixer, and the mic can be routed via a
| compressor and noise gate. Audio routing is far from simple - see the
wiki:
|   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem
| The route indicated for voice calls on the wiki is via the compressor
/ noise
| gate (ALC) but the state file (2007.2 after opkg upgrade) skips that
part.
|
| Assuming there is sufficient difference in level between voice level
and the
| level from the earpiece it should be possible to set the noise gate so
that
| it only triggers when you are actually speaking, stopping the echo. The
| compressor should even out the variations in level.
|
| I don't know yet whether the assumption is true; it maybe that the ALC is
| skipped from the state file because it was difficult or impossible to
find
| settings that reliably blocked echo, but passed voice.

I don't know why we go around it, but when I looked mic - GSM routing
some weeks ago I also found a very direct analogue path.  If you're
interested to meddle with this, I have some meddling hints.  First, the
datasheet is open:

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/WM8753.pdf

We have fitted 100n in the external ALC path (between ACOP / ACIN)
instead of 1uF recommended, I guess it will impact low end, but in
telephony the low end as well as the high end are chopped out anyway.
Soon, as steve told, you'll be able to see this stuff (and our mistakes)
on the schematics for yourself.

You can dump the actual codec registers using

# cat /sys/devices/platform/soc-audio/codec_reg

and you can meddle with them like this

# echo 3d 20  /sys/devices/platform/soc-audio/codec_reg_write

first one is the register address in hex, second is value to write in
hex.  I don't really know what those dozens of alsamixer settings are
doing either, I found it easier to read the datasheet and interpret /
meddle with the codec registers directly.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: Can you help the Openmoko booth at Linuxworld, August 4-7, in San Francisco?

2008-07-21 Thread Joseph Reeves
I'd give my big toe to be there, but am on the wrong side of the
Atlantic. I'll be sending positive mental energy across the pond to
you all!

Joseph



2008/7/17 Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Openmoko will be at Linuxworld, and needs to staff two booths: One in
 the main vendor area, and another in the Linux Garage.

 As we are a small understaffed team, we would love it if some of you
 could commit to helping us.

 If you are on this mailing list, you already know enough to answer the
 most common question: What is Openmoko?.

 As for more technical questions, don't worry - you already know a lot,
 and you can always defer questions to one of us.

 In return we plan some sort of appreciation, perhaps in the form of
 T-shirts or some other Openmoko swag, and you will be the proud owner of
 our undying gratitude :-) You will also be able to ask Steve all those
 difficult questions you've been saving up.

 It's also a great opportunity for us to get to know you, no matter how
 much or little time you can commit to helping.

 LinuxWorld is August 4-7, in San Francisco.

 Please let me know right away so that I can arrange for badges.

 Passes for the exhibit hall are free! Register at
 http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/register//SN335015

 If there is interest we will also hold a BoF session.

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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti:
| We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.
|
| Funky.
|
| You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to
| push it between host and device modes.
| ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
| ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode
|
| There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host
| mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some
| special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard
| cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer.
| Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this?

Yes, you should set only usb_mode = host if you give external power
too.  If you set the hostmode guy additionally, it does three things:

~ 1) makes freerunner generate 5V for USB socket to power the device

~ 2) disables charging battery (otherwise we try to charge with the power
we generated from battery :-) )

~ 3) enables 15K pulldowns on USB D+ and D-

When we give external power but want logical host mode, we want 3) but
not 1) and 2).  So the answer is to not set hostmode to 1 in that
case, and add external 15K pulldowns on USB D+ and D-.

Then you have logical host mode that can work with external USB device,
you do not generate 5V for it because you provide it, and you do not
disable charging from this external power you are giving.  This is the
scheme for Joerg's Y Cable concept (which somebody actually made with
success I saw the other week).

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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1BgAn2/iNjW1ALM+uPBTmqHaRKrqPi18
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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Florian Hackenberger
On Friday 18 July 2008, Ole Kliemann wrote:
 Not sure whether I missed something. I am looking for a way to import
 VCF into qtopia. I could only find the discussion on this list,
 which, as far as I understand, covers importing VCF to the GTK
 addressbook only.
Importing the contacts via bluetooth works on the stock qtopia images 
BTW. I recon it should be possible to get it to work on ASU as well. I 
simply did a pairing of the FR with my old phone and sent all contacts 
via bluetooth. The FR popped up a dialogue asking to confirm the import 
and voilá, everything was there.

Cheers.
Florian

-- 
DI Florian Hackenberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.hackenberger.at

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Re: problem booting to NOR?

2008-07-21 Thread Al Johnson
On Monday 21 July 2008, Steve Leung wrote:
 Hi..  I hope someone can point out what I'm doing wrong.

 I want to boot into my Freerunner's NOR to try flashing different
 images, but I can't get it to work.  I've followed what's on the wiki,
 and all I get is a brief pop or crackle from the speaker, and then about
 6 seconds later the red LED flashes very briefly.  The screen does not
 light up.

 I've tried all combinations of:

 - USB connected/disconnected
 - holding AUX/POWER for short and long periods of time
 - releasing AUX or POWER first
 - with/without SIM card installed

 I'm assuming there should be some visual confirmation that I've booted
 into NOR - if I plug in the USB cable after following the documented
 process, the device boots normally.

 I can get into NAND no problem, and the POWER and AUX buttons both work
 fine during normal use.

 Does this happen to anyone else?  Does this indicate some kind of
 problem with the phone?  Would a debug board help fix this?

I remember taking several tries to get it going initially, but now I can't 
work out why I had trouble.

Press Aux and hold
Press Power and hold
Hear tick from speaker
See red light flash on Aux
See uBoot screen
Release buttons

Timing doesn't appear to be much of an issue so long as the Aux button is down 
when the power button is pressed. From pressing Power to uBoot screen is 
between 1 and 2 seconds.


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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Al Johnson
On Monday 21 July 2008, Mikko Rauhala wrote:
 ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti:
  We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.

 Funky.

  You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to
  push it between host and device modes.
  ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
  ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode

 There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host
 mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some
 special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard
 cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer.
 Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this?

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware

See the USB Host section - 47k from ID to ground, 15k from D+ to ground, 15k 
from D- to ground, and only do the first echo.

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order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Daniel Selinger

Hi,

I have a small question. I ordered a freerunner @ pulster on 27th of
june. Until now i just got an autoreply from their orderingsystem. Got
no paying info, information when i can expect the phone or
anything else.
I tried to write a reply to them one week ago begging for some info,
no answer either.
Can any of you, who ordered about the same time, confirm this lack of
info, or is it just me?

regards daniel

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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Al Johnson
On Monday 21 July 2008, Andy Green wrote:
 Somebody in the thread at some point said:
 | On Monday 21 July 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 | see:

 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id

 | =1781 /j
 |
 | It mentions automatic mode switch from client to host. Is this

 applicable to

 | the Freerunner too?

 We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.

This is the bit I was interested in. Is the ID resistor value standardised? I 
know we have 47k for the 1A charger and for the Y cable.

 You need to 
 provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to push it between
 host and device modes.

 # tell the USB stack the USB socket is logically a host now

 ~  echo host  /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode

 # get the Freerunner to provide 5V out on the USB socket

 ~  echo 1  /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode

 set them to device and 0 to go back to being a USB gadget.


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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Alexander Steinert
Daniel Selinger, Mon 2008-07-21 12:16 CEST:
 I have a small question. I ordered a freerunner @ pulster on 27th of
 june. Until now i just got an autoreply from their orderingsystem. Got
 no paying info, information when i can expect the phone or
 anything else.

Same for me. The autoreply was sent 2008-06-27 19:06 CEST.


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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread kazaam
I ordered it the same day. I wrote them two weeks after the automatic response 
message and got a reply telling that I would get it asap and I should sent the 
money already.

Be sure to write him to the correct address (I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and 
wait a few days for a reply.

bye

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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Ilja O.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Alexander Steinert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Daniel Selinger, Mon 2008-07-21 12:16 CEST:
  I have a small question. I ordered a freerunner @ pulster on 27th of
  june. Until now i just got an autoreply from their orderingsystem. Got
  no paying info, information when i can expect the phone or
  anything else.

 Same for me. The autoreply was sent 2008-06-27 19:06 CEST.


Same here too. Jul 1, 2008 at 7:04 PM
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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Masoom Alam
What does this means, Have you already got the openmoko or still waiting...

I have heard that the new stock will be available on 25th of July, May be
that is the reason.

MM Alam

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 4:39 PM, kazaam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I ordered it the same day. I wrote them two weeks after the automatic
 response message and got a reply telling that I would get it asap and I
 should sent the money already.

 Be sure to write him to the correct address (I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
 and wait a few days for a reply.

 bye

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Regards,
MM Alam
SERG Pakistan
http://serg.imsciences.edu.pk
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Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?

2008-07-21 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will.
|
| This is the bit I was interested in. Is the ID resistor value
standardised? I
| know we have 47k for the 1A charger and for the Y cable.

You either leave ID open or tie it to 0V to signal depending on if you
are a host or device cable.  Not sure which way around is which.

We do have 47K to 0V on ID for charger, but it isn't actually the
standard, which came out after it was too late for us.  Chargers are
meant to tie D+ and D- lines together to show they are a charger.

- -Andy
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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Wolfgang Silbermayr
Daniel Selinger wrote:

 Can any of you, who ordered about the same time, confirm this lack of
 info, or is it just me?

I can confirm that, same for me.

Greetings, Wolfgang.

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openmoko calendar2

2008-07-21 Thread Michael Kluge
Hi all,

has anyone an idea how to change the alarm settings for the calendar app in OM 
2007.2 ? Is it even possible to have an alarm like '5 minutes before due 
time'?


Michael


Michael Kluge, M.Sc.

Technische Universität Dresden
Center for Information Services and
High Performance Computing (ZIH)
D-01062 Dresden
Germany

Contact:
Willersbau, Room HRSK 151
Phone:  (+49) 351 463-32424
Fax:(+49) 351 463-37773
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:http://www.tu-dresden.de/zih

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Why is Qtopia much faster?

2008-07-21 Thread Yorick Moko
This might be a stupid question, but it isn't the first and will not
be the last stupid one I ask :).
I have glimpsed at the 2007.2, ASU and qtopia image (the latest
builds) and a very noticable difference is the speed.
Will this improve in the ASU and the 2007.2 or should I not get my
hopes on? Qtopia just responds and seems to load everything faster.

Kind regards,
Yorick

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Re: order from pulster

2008-07-21 Thread mickey
Hello,

Daniel Selinger schrieb:
 Got
 no paying info, information when i can expect the phone or
 anything else.

 Can any of you, confirm this lack of
 info

i was in the same situation and called their support hotline to gain any
more details about the status of my order.

The guy was very friendly and told me that they are somewhat slashdoted
by all the orders and requests for openmoko. :-)

Right after that call i finally recieved another email with payment
instructions and my ordered items arrived 2 days after (wow!)

Just give it some patience or call that hotline, too.

Regards,

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Why is Qtopia much faster?

2008-07-21 Thread Ben Wilson
I don't really know for sure but if i had to guess id say it's probably
because Qtopia has been around much longer and so is more optimised.
Probably has much less debug code enabled as well..

Ben.

Yorick Moko wrote:
 This might be a stupid question, but it isn't the first and will not
 be the last stupid one I ask :).
 I have glimpsed at the 2007.2, ASU and qtopia image (the latest
 builds) and a very noticable difference is the speed.
 Will this improve in the ASU and the 2007.2 or should I not get my
 hopes on? Qtopia just responds and seems to load everything faster.

 Kind regards,
 Yorick

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Re: Why is Qtopia much faster?

2008-07-21 Thread Tilman Baumann
Yorick Moko wrote:
 This might be a stupid question, but it isn't the first and will not
 be the last stupid one I ask :).
 I have glimpsed at the 2007.2, ASU and qtopia image (the latest
 builds) and a very noticable difference is the speed.
 Will this improve in the ASU and the 2007.2 or should I not get my
 hopes on? Qtopia just responds and seems to load everything faster.

Qtopia has a more integrated aproach. They load plugins for different 
features. (AFAIK)
And the other systems launch new programs for each task. Sometimes even 
based on different frameworks. (e,gtk,qt)
There are ideas how to speed them up. Like pre-loading or integrating 
the basic phone apps into one binary.

If you want speed now, take qtopia. What you get is a phone.
The other systems go a few steps further...

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Re: headset with qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Ole Kliemann
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 05:34:47AM +, thewtex wrote:
 Has anyone got the headset that comes with the Freerunner group purchase 
 working
 with the qtopia.net images?  There seems to be a small amount of sound coming
 out somewhere.  And speakerphone goes wacky.  Maybe alsamixer settings?

I am using this version: 

qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash-07172049.tgz

When I plug in the headset while playing something with mediaplayer, I
only get sound on one channel on the headset, speaker still sounds
normal.

There is a alsamixer control `Amp Spk'; if you turn it off, speaker goes
off and headset has both channels.

Now question would be, how to make qtopia to recognize the headset has
been plugged in and change mixer settings accordingly. The .state files
in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios are in place but don't seem to be used.

Ole


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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Cédric Berger
What about Qtopia Desktop (application for the PC) ?
Would it fit to manage synchronisation ?

Since download from qtopia website (
http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qtopia/desktopdownloads ) has
been disabled (they told me this was not intended for this application
-not GPL- and it would be put back soon), I could only get an old (?)
version, and anyway could not have it connect to qtopia
synchronisation on my freerunner...



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:49, Florian Hackenberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Importing the contacts via bluetooth works on the stock qtopia images
 BTW. I recon it should be possible to get it to work on ASU as well. I
 simply did a pairing of the FR with my old phone and sent all contacts
 via bluetooth. The FR popped up a dialogue asking to confirm the import
 and voilá, everything was there.

 Cheers.
Florian

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Re: Alternative stylus - Group Buy

2008-07-21 Thread Jose Torres
I'm in.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Steven ** 
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Anyone interested in a different group buy?
 I want one of these:
 http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=303

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Re: order from Pulster

2008-07-21 Thread W. B. Kranendonk
--- On Mon, 7/21/08, Christoph Pulster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The stock (..)new delivery on 15.08. (..)
Thanks for the update. Does it mean that the 25.07 stock has been sold out as 
well?

I also only got the automatic reply so far. Is there a way to find out whether 
one is on the 25.07 or 15.08 list?

Kind regards,

Boudewijn


  

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Re: Alternative stylus - Group Buy

2008-07-21 Thread Chris Wright
2008/7/19 Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Anyone interested in a different group buy?
 I want one of these:
 http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=303

I'm with you, too.

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Re: order from Pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Sander van Grieken
 Hallo,

 my excuses to each of you waiting for his order to be confirmed.

Hehe I guess you mean 'apologies'? I know in german or dutch excuses means 
apologies,
but in english it means something else, which might pzz off ppl :)

 We still work hard to come back to each of you.
 Anyway feel free to send another mail asking about the status of your
 order, I will check and come back in time now.
 Everybody who made an order based on our initial special offer
 of 299 EUR for a Freerunner will pay this discount price and no more.

 The stock situation is getting much better now, we have a new delivery
 on 15.08. and everybody who ordered a Freerunner will get one.

I ordered when delivery was said to be 25-7. Can I expect the FR to arrive 1 or 
days
later? Or has my order been delayed to 15-8?

Sander



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Re: Special Letters?

2008-07-21 Thread Ole Holm Frandsen
Sounds great that it will be possible to create better support for  
Danish and other non-english languages. Does anyone know when the  
SVN build might become stabile?
But there is no way at the moment du fix this issue?

Den 20/07/2008 kl. 17.59 skrev Michele Renda:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 in the end i imagine people might do custom layouts for a language  
 (eg german
 would only have ä, ö, ü and ß). romainian some other set, danish  
 another set.

 I think i can help we collect a series of layout to ship with  
 Freerunner.

 If we collect a person for every country we can provide a full set of
 keyboard layout (we can see the key are available in our keyboard).  
 They
 are text file so them will not take too much space.
 We need something to easily swith from a layout to the other (if it
 doesn't exist yet).

 Regards
 Michele
Sounds like a great idea Michele and if made correctly it wouldn´t be  
that difficult to implant in the SVN build that Carsten Haitzler is  
talking about.


 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iEYEARECAAYFAkiDYOUACgkQSIAU/I6SkT1AcwCfZqoDOohHCzChP8Pxr0XU0gA8
 kGIAn3R9F2oDJLZXJXQEJ7ZC9SdZOEfg
 =uDgl
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Venlig Hilsen/Kind Regards
Ole Holm Frandsen


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Re: problem booting to NOR?

2008-07-21 Thread Steve Leung
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:35:13PM +0200, Roger Luethi wrote:
 Maybe it's this:
 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1568

Indeed.  Silly me, only searched through the wiki and mail archives.  
I'll update the wiki at least, and then try to find me a debug board.

Thanks!

Steve

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Re: order from Pulster

2008-07-21 Thread Dr. Morpheus
Am Montag, den 21.07.2008, 12:54 + schrieb Sander van Grieken:
  Hallo,
 
  my excuses to each of you waiting for his order to be confirmed.
 
 Hehe I guess you mean 'apologies'? I know in german or dutch excuses means 
 apologies,
 but in english it means something else, which might pzz off ppl :)

Oh yes, I think Ausflüchte and Ausreden was not meant by Christoph;
I think he dropped a brick :-)

  We still work hard to come back to each of you.
  Anyway feel free to send another mail asking about the status of your
  order, I will check and come back in time now.
  Everybody who made an order based on our initial special offer
  of 299 EUR for a Freerunner will pay this discount price and no more.

Thanks!

mfg
Morpheus.
-- 
My choice is what I choose to do,
and if I'm causin' no harm, why should it bother you?
Your choice is who you choose to be,
and if you'r causin' no harm, you are right to me.


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Re: anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Corey Young
From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
I use mine. My kids used theirs till I gave it away to somebody else.

That said, some people have expereince audio issues. Engineering is 
on the issue.

Steve
  
  wow...  wish my Dad had your job... that way I'd get to play with cool
  phones!  haha j/k.  I love my dad. ^_^
  

  Corey
  
  I will tell you story. My father was a printer and Saturday he had
  to work
  the graveyard shift.
  So, he would come home at 1AM Sunday and bring Sundays' paper with
  him. So I
  was the first kid
  To get to read Sundays' paper. Hours before dawn we would sit there
  reading
  the paper together,
  eating Nestle crunch bars
  
  That was as cool as any new phone.
  
   
  
  Steve

Steve,
I totally agree.  Nothing is better than times such as those!
I Didn't mean anything by my post.  I wouldn't trade my father for all
the tea in china.   Memories are wonderful things, aren't they?  Thank
you for the story, I enjoyed hearing it. ^_^

Corey


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Re: Influence of WiFi on GPS readings (200m error)

2008-07-21 Thread C R McClenaghan
I'm not sure where the fault lies, but with tangogps, I seem to get a  
scatter plot displayed for my position. Initially the fix seems  
accurate, then it starts to wander, although I may not be. If I am  
moving, the trial doesn't seem to follow the route I've taken. I think  
it may be tangogps, but I thought I'd try using my garmin bluetooth in  
a side by side kind of test to see whether it is tangogps or the gps  
radio.

Chris

On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Russell Sears wrote:

 I've had this problem when the initial fix was obtained while I'm  
 inside
 a vehicle (such as a bus or car) or near a lot of metal.  Going to a
 complete stop, then moving a few times (in the car) seems to give the
 chipset a better chance to realize it's got a bogus fix.

 -Rusty

 Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
 Hi All,

 Finally I got to play with FR. Flushed todays (0721) dev image and  
 kernel.
 Running TangoGPS. While WiFi is on (WEP encrypted. wpa_supplicant
 powered ;)) I am having location error (never hit the right spot)  
 around
 200-400m with reported speed from 0.5 to 20 km/h (while I am siting
 steadily in 1 place).

 When I turn WiFi Off (just on my FR, without touching access point  
 or a
 laptop from which I am writing) -- location moves to the right spot  
 with
 a bias of 10m or so.

 Therefore, the question: is that expected? ie that we can't rely on  
 GPS
 readings while WiFi is on?  Or from the other side: what is
 'documented' precision in GPS readings while WiFi is enabled (and not
 actually very actively used, if used at all  since I guess TangoGPS
 already had those tiles from OSM downloaded).

 Or may be it is just my FR which behaves that way? Did anyone observe
 any similar behavior?



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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread shawn sullivan
Alexander Syring wrote:
 Hi
 I made an howto change matchbox layout 
 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Change_keyboard_layout
 
 have fun
 
 regards
 alex
 

Dvorak, here I come!

thanks for posting this.

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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Roland Mas
shawn sullivan, 2008-07-21 09:01:26 -0600 :

 Dvorak, here I come!

Er, Dvorak on a touchscreen might be exactly the wrong thing to
do... you don't really want to alternate taps on both sides of the
screen, do you?

  Unless you meant some layout optimised especially for the FR
touchscreen according to the same methods that gave us the Dvorak-ish
keyboard layouts, in which case I'm all in favour :-)

Roland.
-- 
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Because it was the chicken's day off.

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Re: Influence of WiFi on GPS readings (200m error)

2008-07-21 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 07:54 -0700, C R McClenaghan wrote:
 I'm not sure where the fault lies, but with tangogps, I seem to get a  
 scatter plot displayed for my position. Initially the fix seems  
 accurate, then it starts to wander, although I may not be. If I am  
 moving, the trial doesn't seem to follow the route I've taken. I think  
 it may be tangogps, but I thought I'd try using my garmin bluetooth in  
 a side by side kind of test to see whether it is tangogps or the gps  
 radio.

tangogps just uses whatever comes from the GPS chip. No mangling
whatsoever. You can test it by just dumping the output of /dev/ttySAC1
to a logfile, convert it to GPX or KML and use it with Google maps.

The u-blox chip is quite jittery (extremly so when used with an SD card
without the fixes, be it kernel or additional capacitor).

Additionally in a city the accuracy of any GPS while driving or walking
will deviate up to 50m from your real position. Just have a look at
openstreetmap GPX traces for various cities...

The performance of the u-blox chip (without an SD card) is impressive -
apart from that flaw the hardware guys at openmoko have done an
excellent job.

Last word about the jitter: most GPS chips support different modes, one
where they flatten out the GPS signal and a 'straight' one. Have a look
into the u-blox binary protocol and you will most likely find something
there to switch - I know that SIRF has something to this account. The
Globallocate chip in the Neo 1973 does flatten by default. However, you
need to go between 10m and 20m before it starts to 'believe' that you
move. The u-blox tells you after 3-4m.

Marcus

 
 Chris
 
 On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Russell Sears wrote:
 
  I've had this problem when the initial fix was obtained while I'm  
  inside
  a vehicle (such as a bus or car) or near a lot of metal.  Going to a
  complete stop, then moving a few times (in the car) seems to give the
  chipset a better chance to realize it's got a bogus fix.
 
  -Rusty
 
  Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
  Hi All,
 
  Finally I got to play with FR. Flushed todays (0721) dev image and  
  kernel.
  Running TangoGPS. While WiFi is on (WEP encrypted. wpa_supplicant
  powered ;)) I am having location error (never hit the right spot)  
  around
  200-400m with reported speed from 0.5 to 20 km/h (while I am siting
  steadily in 1 place).
 
  When I turn WiFi Off (just on my FR, without touching access point  
  or a
  laptop from which I am writing) -- location moves to the right spot  
  with
  a bias of 10m or so.
 
  Therefore, the question: is that expected? ie that we can't rely on  
  GPS
  readings while WiFi is on?  Or from the other side: what is
  'documented' precision in GPS readings while WiFi is enabled (and not
  actually very actively used, if used at all  since I guess TangoGPS
  already had those tiles from OSM downloaded).
 
  Or may be it is just my FR which behaves that way? Did anyone observe
  any similar behavior?
 
 
 
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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Tilman Baumann
Roland Mas wrote:
 shawn sullivan, 2008-07-21 09:01:26 -0600 :
 
 Dvorak, here I come!
 
 Er, Dvorak on a touchscreen might be exactly the wrong thing to
 do... you don't really want to alternate taps on both sides of the
 screen, do you?
 
   Unless you meant some layout optimised especially for the FR
 touchscreen according to the same methods that gave us the Dvorak-ish
 keyboard layouts, in which case I'm all in favour :-)
Probably depends on what you are used to.
I go nuts when i have to type anything in a ABC layout on touch screens 
as they are often used in public service points.

I'm not using 10 fingers there, but i have to search every key. Frustrating!

Same goes for me with mobile phone text entry. It's not too unergonomic 
(if you are used to), but i go nuts over searching every key.

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Re: wiki database error

2008-07-21 Thread Joseph M. Jarvis

koebi wrote:
   just wanted to let somebody know that today, after an edit on the 
wiki, I got a database error message:

---
Database error
 From Openmoko
Jump to: navigation, search
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in 
the software. The last attempted database query was:


 (SQL query hidden)

from within function SearchMySQL4::update. MySQL returned error 126: 
Incorrect key file for table './wikidb/searchindex.MYI'; try to repair 
it (localhost).

--

nevertheless, the changes I made were applied.


I can confirm all of this as well.

--
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http://joejarvis.org/



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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Joerg Lippmann
Am Sonntag 20 Juli 2008 schrieb Alexander Syring:

 I made an howto change matchbox layout

Great!

Is it also possible to change the size of the keys? They are so tiny. I'd like 
to reduce the size of the shift and ctrl keys to have more space for the 
letters. Also we should get rid of the unused space between the keys.

-- 
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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Timo Jyrinki
2008/7/21 Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Assuming there is sufficient difference in level between voice level and the
 level from the earpiece it should be possible to set the noise gate so that
 it only triggers when you are actually speaking, stopping the echo. The
 compressor should even out the variations in level.

So is basically everyone who is being called with a Neo Freerunner
having at least a little echo of her own voice? At some point I had
often the problem that the receiver heard everything she said very
aloud about 1s later, now in at least my own tests it's merely quite
quiet repetition that doesn't always even occur (gets cut off by
something, eg. a noise filter). I used gsmhandset.state from here:
http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=5t=170start=75#p3277
and also stored it at /etc/asound.state.

-Timo

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Cédric Berger
People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked,
they said there was none.
But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe
that's why there was no echo...
(and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too)

I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more...



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 17:58, Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/7/21 Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Assuming there is sufficient difference in level between voice level and the
 level from the earpiece it should be possible to set the noise gate so that
 it only triggers when you are actually speaking, stopping the echo. The
 compressor should even out the variations in level.

 So is basically everyone who is being called with a Neo Freerunner
 having at least a little echo of her own voice? At some point I had
 often the problem that the receiver heard everything she said very
 aloud about 1s later, now in at least my own tests it's merely quite
 quiet repetition that doesn't always even occur (gets cut off by
 something, eg. a noise filter). I used gsmhandset.state from here:
 http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=5t=170start=75#p3277
 and also stored it at /etc/asound.state.

 -Timo

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Re: Proper mixer settings for music playback, or hardware fixes?

2008-07-21 Thread Dylan Reilly
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Al Johnson wrote:

 I noticed the high-pass, but came to acceptable results using
 alsamixer's bass-boost options. My main concern is with the
 distortion in the mids to highs. As far as I understand, the
 above mentioned postings only cover the high-pass problem.
 But I certainly don't understand all the technical stuff.

 Does anyone else experience distortion?

I have also noticed some heinous distortion in the mid to high range
through the media player in the latest 2007.02 builds. However, it is
not present under Qtopia. I experimented mixing and matching kernels
between the distributionsw and 2007.02 + Qtopia kernel still has the
distortion.

I did some more poking around (under 2007.02) and it seems the issue
is related to pulse audio. Using madplay to play straight to /dev/dsp
produces no distortion but madplay through pulse audio does. I don't
know much about pulse audio; does anyone have any recommendations for
a work-around?

-- 
Dylan Maxwell Reilly

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Scott Derrick
Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings
that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference?

Scott

Cédric Berger wrote:
 People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked,
 they said there was none.
 But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe
 that's why there was no echo...
 (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too)
 
 I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more...
 


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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Ole Holm Frandsen
Very interesseting project/guide. Will this make is possible to change  
the keyboard layout to replace or add some special letters/signs to  
the keyboard - some scandinavian letters etc?

Venlig Hilsen
Ole Holm Frandsen

Registeret GNU/Linux bruger: 417963
.Mac Member: froksen




Den 21/07/2008 kl. 17.55 skrev Joerg Lippmann:

 Am Sonntag 20 Juli 2008 schrieb Alexander Syring:

 I made an howto change matchbox layout

 Great!

 Is it also possible to change the size of the keys? They are so  
 tiny. I'd like
 to reduce the size of the shift and ctrl keys to have more space for  
 the
 letters. Also we should get rid of the unused space between the keys.

 -- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Alternative stylus - Group Buy

2008-07-21 Thread C R McClenaghan
Steven,

Check this link out:

http://www.cowonamerica.com/buy/us.html

There do appear to be Canadian and other international outlets as well.

As far as your offer goes, I'll take one as well.

Chris

On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Steven ** wrote:

 Anyone interested in a different group buy?
 I want one of these:
 http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=303
 I think it would go with my FreeRunner very well.  It even has a
 little strap that I could hook though the hole on the FreeRunner!

 But as you'll see, they want $9 to ship a $3 stylus.  They apparently
 only offer UPS for shipping and I can't find any other store that
 sells this stylus.  However, the shipping cost doesn't go up with
 additional stylus (because they weigh nothing!).  So, if anyone else
 is interested in one, we could save on shipping by buying 10 of them
 and re-shipping via USPS (which wouldn't need more than a 42 cent
 stamp in the US).  Anyone interested?  If I can get 8 other people, it
 would work out to $4.50 per person.

 -Steven

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have anyone changed his ringtone ?

2008-07-21 Thread Zitune
If yes ...
how ?

P.S. i post a mail with what I ve tried, without respond ...

old mail
Hi,

I m trying to change my ringtone, but it seems i'm missing something.

I made a new .wav (because i m not sure that it manage .ogg/mp3 yet)
my .wav is 4.5 Mo
it'located in /media/card/wav (with all rigths)

i alter my /etc/pulse/session :

load-sample ringtone /media/card/wav/test.wav

I reboot my FR (when i make a /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart ... i
lost the sound !!!???)

and ... no more ringtone.

Is anybody know where i mess up ?

/old mail


--
Zitune

GNU/Linux is user-friendly. It's just very selective about who its friends
are.
http://www.april.org/
http://www.openmoko.com/

Les enfants croient au pére Noël. Les adultes votent P.Desproges
http://www.federation-anarchiste.org/
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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Charles-Henri Gros
Roland Mas wrote:
 shawn sullivan, 2008-07-21 09:01:26 -0600 :
 
 Dvorak, here I come!
 
 Er, Dvorak on a touchscreen might be exactly the wrong thing to
 do... you don't really want to alternate taps on both sides of the
 screen, do you?

QWERTY is also optimized for that (originally to avoid typewriter
jams). The main point is to know where to find the keys.

-- 
Charles-Henri


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Message coding?

2008-07-21 Thread Alexander Syring
Hi
I sent an text message to a friend of mine but he can't read the message. Does 
anybody has same problems? I think the problem was the german umlaute äöü.

And the other problem is, that messages I get with umlaute are crippled like 
this text
 ...  k|nnen.W~rd ...
should displayed as
... können. Würd ...

I've read on wikipedia that the message should coded with 7bit.
Does openmoko-messages code the text with 7bit?

regards
Alex

 

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

2008-07-21 Thread Chris
Andy Green wrote:
 Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight.
 ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance.

 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47
I did some tests with the new settings. My observations are based on the 
signal strength output in AGPS-UI.

sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=2:
The strength of the gps-signal rapidly goes down, then I loose the fix 
on my window.

sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0:
I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good 
as with sd_idleclk=0.
I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all 
md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card.


Thanks for the great work.

-Chris


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Re: Alternative stylus - Group Buy

2008-07-21 Thread Steven **
Jetmall is the only one that seems to sell the stylus separately.  If
you can find a different vendor, let me know.  They may have cheaper
shipping.  But my Google-fu shows no other sites selling the stylus
separately.

-Steven

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, C R McClenaghan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steven,

 Check this link out:

 http://www.cowonamerica.com/buy/us.html

 There do appear to be Canadian and other international outlets as well.

 As far as your offer goes, I'll take one as well.

 Chris

 On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Steven ** wrote:

 Anyone interested in a different group buy?
 I want one of these:
 http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=303
 I think it would go with my FreeRunner very well.  It even has a
 little strap that I could hook though the hole on the FreeRunner!

 But as you'll see, they want $9 to ship a $3 stylus.  They apparently
 only offer UPS for shipping and I can't find any other store that
 sells this stylus.  However, the shipping cost doesn't go up with
 additional stylus (because they weigh nothing!).  So, if anyone else
 is interested in one, we could save on shipping by buying 10 of them
 and re-shipping via USPS (which wouldn't need more than a 42 cent
 stamp in the US).  Anyone interested?  If I can get 8 other people, it
 would work out to $4.50 per person.

 -Steven

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

2008-07-21 Thread Scott Derrick
does it say what the two settings actually do?

Scott

Chris wrote:
 Andy Green wrote:
 Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight.
 ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance.

 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47
 I did some tests with the new settings. My observations are based on the 
 signal strength output in AGPS-UI.
 
 sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=2:
 The strength of the gps-signal rapidly goes down, then I loose the fix 
 on my window.
 
 sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0:
 I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good 
 as with sd_idleclk=0.
 I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all 
 md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card.
 
 
 Thanks for the great work.
 
 -Chris
 
 
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The Song of Arkadia

2008-07-21 Thread Esben Stien
Any info on arcade games ported to the freerunner?. 

Old classics like tetris, pacman (njam), lemmings (pingus), nibbles
and sidescrollers running through dungeons and mazes, shooting space
ships and such. Fun for the whole family. 

I think I played every arcade games in existence back in 80's/90's and
it would be fun to relive those moments on the freerunner.

-- 
Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s  a 
 http://www. s tn m
  irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
   sip:b0ef@   e e 
   jid:b0ef@n n

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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Holger Freyther
On Friday 18 July 2008 20:32:50 Ole Kliemann wrote:
 Not sure whether I missed something. I am looking for a way to import
 VCF into qtopia. I could only find the discussion on this list, which, as
 far as I understand, covers importing VCF to the GTK addressbook only.

 There is also a howto on importing Blackberry contacts to qtopia. It
 could be helpful if one were able to convert VCF to sqlite.

 Any hints appreciated.


Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from 
trolltech as is so is likely to have issues)

1.) copy the the file vcf to the device
2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted)
3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import..
4.) You might need to restart afterwards


maybe someone comes up with a FAQ...



z.

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Re: Alternative stylus - Group Buy

2008-07-21 Thread bburdette
Steven ** wrote:
 Anyone interested in a different group buy?
 I want one of these:
 http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=303
 I think it would go with my FreeRunner very well.  It even has a
 little strap that I could hook though the hole on the FreeRunner!
 

Put me on the list!


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

2008-07-21 Thread Chris
look here:
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47

Scott Derrick wrote:
 does it say what the two settings actually do?

 Scott

   

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Re: The Song of Arkadia

2008-07-21 Thread Yorick Moko
i'm also looking forward to this

ps: there is a wishlist page on the wiki, add what you would like :)
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Games

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Any info on arcade games ported to the freerunner?.

 Old classics like tetris, pacman (njam), lemmings (pingus), nibbles
 and sidescrollers running through dungeons and mazes, shooting space
 ships and such. Fun for the whole family.

 I think I played every arcade games in existence back in 80's/90's and
 it would be fun to relive those moments on the freerunner.

 --
 Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s  a
 http://www. s tn m
  irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
   sip:b0ef@   e e
   jid:b0ef@n n

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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Holger Freyther
On Monday 21 July 2008 14:12:35 Cédric Berger wrote:
 What about Qtopia Desktop (application for the PC) ?
 Would it fit to manage synchronisation ?

 Since download from qtopia website (
 http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qtopia/desktopdownloads ) has
 been disabled (they told me this was not intended for this application
 -not GPL- and it would be put back soon), I could only get an old (?)
 version, and anyway could not have it connect to qtopia
 synchronisation on my freerunner...

There is a src/qtopiadesktop directory in the Qtopia source tree. I have never 
bothered to compile it. qdsync runs on the device, if you attempt to compile 
it it might or might not work.

z.

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Re: Proper mixer settings for music playback, or hardware fixes?

2008-07-21 Thread Ole Kliemann
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:31:44PM -0400, Dylan Reilly wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Al Johnson wrote:
 
  I noticed the high-pass, but came to acceptable results using
  alsamixer's bass-boost options. My main concern is with the
  distortion in the mids to highs. As far as I understand, the
  above mentioned postings only cover the high-pass problem.
  But I certainly don't understand all the technical stuff.
 
  Does anyone else experience distortion?
 
 I have also noticed some heinous distortion in the mid to high range
 through the media player in the latest 2007.02 builds. However, it is
 not present under Qtopia. 

Just today I tried Qtopia. Did not do much listening, but I think I can
confirm there were no distortions with Qtopia.


pgpyaxlG2T0zy.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: Why is Qtopia much faster?

2008-07-21 Thread Lorn Potter
Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Yorick Moko wrote:
 This might be a stupid question, but it isn't the first and will not
 be the last stupid one I ask :).
 I have glimpsed at the 2007.2, ASU and qtopia image (the latest
 builds) and a very noticable difference is the speed.
 Will this improve in the ASU and the 2007.2 or should I not get my
 hopes on? Qtopia just responds and seems to load everything faster.
 
 Qtopia has a more integrated aproach. They load plugins for different 
 features. (AFAIK)
 And the other systems launch new programs for each task. Sometimes even 
 based on different frameworks. (e,gtk,qt)
 There are ideas how to speed them up. Like pre-loading or integrating 
 the basic phone apps into one binary.
 
 If you want speed now, take qtopia. What you get is a phone.
 The other systems go a few steps further...

how so?

-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company

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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Greg Bonett


 Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from
 trolltech as is so is likely to have issues)

 1.) copy the the file vcf to the device
 2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted)
 3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import..
 4.) You might need to restart afterwards


 maybe someone comes up with a FAQ...



 z.
Ah, thats seems easy.
Can anyone confirm this method?  (I'll try it as soon as I get home from
work)

-Greg


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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Lorn Potter
Cédric Berger wrote:
 What about Qtopia Desktop (application for the PC) ?
 Would it fit to manage synchronisation ?
 
 Since download from qtopia website (
 http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qtopia/desktopdownloads ) has
 been disabled (they told me this was not intended for this application
 -not GPL- and it would be put back soon), I could only get an old (?)
 version, and anyway could not have it connect to qtopia
 synchronisation on my freerunner...

QD is not around any longer and will not sync to Qtopia 4.
Qtopia 4 has 'sync agent', which currently only has a plugin for Outlook.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company


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Re: headset with qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Lorn Potter
Ole Kliemann wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 05:34:47AM +, thewtex wrote:
 Has anyone got the headset that comes with the Freerunner group purchase 
 working
 with the qtopia.net images?  There seems to be a small amount of sound coming
 out somewhere.  And speakerphone goes wacky.  Maybe alsamixer settings?
 
 I am using this version: 
 
   qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash-07172049.tgz
 
 When I plug in the headset while playing something with mediaplayer, I
 only get sound on one channel on the headset, speaker still sounds
 normal.
 
 There is a alsamixer control `Amp Spk'; if you turn it off, speaker goes
 off and headset has both channels.
 
 Now question would be, how to make qtopia to recognize the headset has
 been plugged in and change mixer settings accordingly. The .state files
 in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios are in place but don't seem to be used.

Yes, they are used by Qtopia. You would not have sound on a phone call, 
if these were not used to change the mixer settings.

Qtopia might have stopped seeing the headphone insert. Will look at this.



-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Kalle Happonen
Scott Derrick wrote:
 Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings
 that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference?

   
It's hard to believe nobody has come up with Better Than Default 
settings, uploaded the config, and gotten it in the newest release :)
 Scott

 Cédric Berger wrote:
   
 People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked,
 they said there was none.
 But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe
 that's why there was no echo...
 (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too)

 I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more...

 


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Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostlyoutdated and incomplete documentation.

2008-07-21 Thread Michael Shiloh


Josh Monson wrote:
 Has the list been created? The wiki-editors mailing list?

yes. it's called documentation.


 
 Michael/Brenda,
 Is there any type of organizational plan at this point in terms of whom
 will be doing what, 

no, although i look to the original 4-5 volunteers to lead the effort.

if you want to be involved, the procedure should be this:

1. join the documentation mailing list
2. respectfully listen for a bit, to see how the list flows
3. make your offer of assistance, and let the lead volunteers guide you.
4. if you have comments or suggestions, it would be polite to wait a 
little longer to see how the active participants communicate amongst 
themselves, how they identify and organize the work, and what they are 
actually doing. they are probably already aware of whatever comment or 
idea you have, and it would be impolite to push them.






and will Brenda be coordinating the efforts I
 assume?

no.

i won't be in charge in any strong sense, but i'll be the company 
representative and will guide only when necessary. i really see the 
original volunteers as the leaders here.



 I know this has all come up very quickly so it's totally understandable
 if there is no plan as of yet :P. Just trying to get coordination
 rolling.


hope this helps
 
 Cheers and thanks again
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:24 PM
 To: 'Steven **'; 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
 Cc: 'Brenda Wang'
 Subject: RE: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of
 mostlyoutdated and incomplete documentation.
 
 The issue is the wiki grows like a weed. On one hand this is great since
 information just get posted.
 On the other hand this rhapsodic construction is difficult to navigate. 
 
 So... Solutions welcomed. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven
 **
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:29 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Cc: Brenda Wang; steve
 Subject: Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostly
 outdated and incomplete documentation.
 
 I'll tell you explicitly.  Go ahead.  It's a wiki!  If anyone doesn't
 like
 your change, they can easily see the history and revert it.  Or just
 clean
 up your change however they like.  That's what makes the wiki so
 powerful.
 
 If they didn't want you to edit it, I'm pretty sure they could lock it
 down
 so that you can't.  The fact that they haven't seems to mean they aren't
 worried regular users might edit it.
 
 -Steven
 
 On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Stroller
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Hi there,

 I thought to try fixing a small part of this particular problem by 
 editing the main page  adding a link to http://wiki.openmoko.org/ 
 wiki/Distributions

 But I do not see where to put it! Perhaps it should replace the 
 Current software stack link to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ 
 NeoSoftwareStack ??

 Perhaps these 5 categories:
   Introduction to Openmoko
   Openmoko Products
   Join Openmoko development
   Openmoko community
   Getting started with Openmoko Wiki
 should be extended with the addition of Openmoko software?

 Or perhaps I should just get my hands dirty and change the 
 Introduction to Openmoko to include the link to Distributions? As 
 a user I feel reluctant to edit the main page as I feel it belongs
 to Openmoko the company or to Brenda, so you must tell me explicitly 
 if you wish me to feel free.

 Stroller.



 On 17 Jul 2008, at 20:00, steve wrote:

 Brenda

   The main page index does not address Scotts issue.

   I second scott's criticism of the wiki. It is not organized well.

   A good start would be a better search engine



 Steve

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda 
 Wang
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:56 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of 
 mostly outdated and incomplete documentation.

 Hi, I am wiki full time editor of Openmoko.
 Thank you for your opinion . I will put more effort , to make wiki 
 more easy to use.
 And now , If you want to know what we have on wiki , Please use this 
 Index page.
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

 Brenda

 Scott Derrick ??:
 Perhaps this is what you seek?

 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions



 This is a great page, one of the gems hidden in the bowels of the OM
 
 Wiki.

 Its also a great example of whats wrong with the Wiki.

 But how do I find it?  Its not listed on the home page,  not on the
 FreeRunner page,  not on the getting started page?Unless I
 search
 for exactly teh right word or combinations of words I would never 
 know it existed... The only link I could find, after I knew it 
 existed was Software/distributions/distributions..

 There has to be some kind of boiler plate format for the 

Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Lorn Potter
Greg Bonett wrote:

 Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from
 trolltech as is so is likely to have issues)

 1.) copy the the file vcf to the device
 2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted)
 3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import..
 4.) You might need to restart afterwards


 maybe someone comes up with a FAQ...



 z.
 Ah, thats seems easy.
 Can anyone confirm this method?  (I'll try it as soon as I get home from
 work)
 

Would probably work., or putting them in /home/root/Documents or on the 
sd card and then clicking on them in the Documents view.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company

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Re: USB numeric keyboard as full character keyboard

2008-07-21 Thread Steven **
In theory, it should work.  Whether it would work out-of-the-box is
another question.  Can't say that for sure.

-Steven

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Tomasz Czapiewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is it possible to use with Neo FreeRunner USB numeric keyboard for
 notebooks simmilar to these:
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/NUMERIC-USB-KEYPAD-LAPTOP-NOTEBOOK/dp/B000P158OM/ref=pd_bxgy_ce_img_a
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-NumKey-Numeric-Key-Pad/dp/3293009948/ref=pd_sbs_ce_3

 The idea to use it is simmilar to phone's numeric keyboard when writing
 SMS etc. but it's just a simple numeric keyboard.

 I've just get notebook accessories case with such thing and I'm planning
 to use it with Neo FreeRunner when I'll buy this linux phone/PDA
 (with group buy next week).

 --
 xeros

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Re: update to quickstart user guide adds known issue section

2008-07-21 Thread Michael Shiloh


Mike Montour wrote:
 Michael Shiloh wrote:
 
 Most importantly, the addition of a known issues section: 
 http://quickstart.openmoko.org/#knownissues
 [...]
 (Duplication is evil because it almost guarantees that one is wrong, or 
 at the very least confuses the newcomer.)
 
 Note that there is a similar page on the wiki at 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues

Yes. I'm well aware of it, and resolving this duplication is a strong 
intention of mine.

Thanks,
Michael

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Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

2008-07-21 Thread Michael Shiloh
...and Michael goes to Steve, so all roads lead to Steve.

Expect a reply from Steve very shortly (if he hasn't already done so).

Michael

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 This should go to Steve and Michael, I guess
 
 
 Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb C R McClenaghan:
 Tony,

 Will OpenMoko offer this repair to Freerunner owners? How and under  
 what terms?

 Chris

 On Jul 18, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) wrote:

 Dear Community:

 For GTA02 SD card interference GPS issue, our hardware team provide a
 hardware fix/workaround for this coexistence bug. Sorry post it late,
 because we have to make sure this fix works and don't have side  
 effects.

 Here is the fix:

 http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf

 This fix could give almost same performance with SD card out of case.

 But this work still not suggest do by yourself, also, this fix need
 proper size capacitor (10 pf with 0402 package), and some solder  
 technique.

 We saw people ask about service issues of Openmoko devices, and we are
 working on it. Our sales discussing with our distributor about proper
 services model, but do not have consensus yet, I will keep update it.

 Thanks,

 Tony Tu

 Openmoko, Inc.

 Support

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Re: have anyone changed his ringtone ?

2008-07-21 Thread arne anka
did you check if your wav matches the paramters of the sample used  
(frequency, bits, ...)?

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-21 Thread Russell Sears
I fell out of this discussion for a while, but I'd much rather see a 
very simple C API that delivers events from DBUS with bindings for 
python / your favorite language.  The event system and programming model 
(rule based, prolog, python, ...) should be completely separate modules. 
  That way, you don't need to design your application around being able 
to  receive external events.

Also, if we couple the event system to the programming language, then 
all other languages become second class citizens.  That would suck.

I'd like to clarify my original post.  (Also, I still haven't looked at 
D-BUS, it might already do most/all of this stuff.)

These two lines are meant to be function invocations, perhaps in C or in 
python:

register_event_handler(/phone/incoming_call = true,
 mute_music_callback)

register_event_handler(/clock/time = 600,
   play_alarm_callback,
 loud_buzzer.ogg)

register_event_handler() should be a C function that takes three arguments:

1: A char* containing a query written in a small domain specific 
language.  I don't think we need support for more than:

  a)  =, , , ...
  b)  Conjunction + disjunction;  and ||, which means all of or one
  of these rules match

The following two would be nice, but might make things harder to implement:

  a)  Parenthesis for grouping
  b)  Negation

xpath is a well-known language, and is close, though I don't know how 
well existing implementations deal with events (ie: third parties making 
changes to the underlying xml document).  Also, I think xpath is 
probably too complicated.

2: A function pointer of type void (fcn*)(void *)

This gets invoked when the evaluation of the query changes from false to 
true.

3) A void *

The application program controls what goes in the void*.

Applications should be able to build all sorts of things with these 
primitives, including new domain specific languages.

It would be good to make sure that it's easy to have prolog or some 
other rule based system autogenerate and interface to the small domain 
specific language.  I think the way it would work is prolog would use 
some event handlers to maintain a table of facts that the DSL would then 
use as its base database.

Also, datalog would be a much better choice than prolog.  The outcome of 
prolog programs depends on the order in which rules are defined.  This 
isn't true for datalog, which has cleaner semantics.  The two languages 
have nearly identical syntax.

-Rusty

Chris Wright wrote:
 2008/7/20 Ryan Meador [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 I think it's important that we use an existing general-purpose platform such 
 as
 Prolog (at least, it's about as general purpose as logic programming 
 gets...).
 
 I would favor Rhino.DSL, simply because I know it integrates well with
 a language with dbus bindings. And because it can probably result in
 very readable syntax. And it's based on Boo, which is very nearly
 Python, and thus more accessible to most programmers than Prolog.
 
 Does dbus allow you to specify your priority when listening to an
 event, and to prevent it from being published to other listeners? If
 not, then the first step is to separate the relevant dbus events and
 come up with an application that merely translates unconditionally
 between the two. And that allows you to insert any rules engine you
 want.
 
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Re: Proper mixer settings for music playback, or hardware fixes?

2008-07-21 Thread Russell Sears
See bug #1614

https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1614

I've uploaded a patch that bypasses pulseaudio and a difficult to 
install ipk file (sorry).  This ~ halves mediaplayer's CPU utilization.

Can you check to see if the change fixes distortion in mediaplayer?

-Rusty

Dylan Reilly wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Al Johnson wrote:
 
 I noticed the high-pass, but came to acceptable results using
 alsamixer's bass-boost options. My main concern is with the
 distortion in the mids to highs. As far as I understand, the
 above mentioned postings only cover the high-pass problem.
 But I certainly don't understand all the technical stuff.

 Does anyone else experience distortion?
 
 I have also noticed some heinous distortion in the mid to high range
 through the media player in the latest 2007.02 builds. However, it is
 not present under Qtopia. I experimented mixing and matching kernels
 between the distributionsw and 2007.02 + Qtopia kernel still has the
 distortion.
 
 I did some more poking around (under 2007.02) and it seems the issue
 is related to pulse audio. Using madplay to play straight to /dev/dsp
 produces no distortion but madplay through pulse audio does. I don't
 know much about pulse audio; does anyone have any recommendations for
 a work-around?
 


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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread arne anka
 the keyboard - some scandinavian letters etc?

självklart ;-)
have a look at the file -- from my short glance yesterday it seems you  
just define the rows and what each button should be.

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Re: Proper mixer settings for music playback, or hardware fixes?

2008-07-21 Thread Dylan Reilly
Actually, ignore my response about it not working. I completely missed
the MD5 sum error. I need to read directions more closely.

The fix improves the quality immensely. There are occasions where some
slight clipping and popping still occur, however. But, I am having
trouble nailing down exactly when.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Dylan Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just installing the ipk alone (I assume this is what you meant -- I
 have no dev environment up and running ATM) seems to not effect the
 distortion much if at all. The difference between no pulse audio and
 through pulse is still like night and day.

 On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Russell Sears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 See bug #1614

 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1614

 I've uploaded a patch that bypasses pulseaudio and a difficult to
 install ipk file (sorry).  This ~ halves mediaplayer's CPU utilization.

 Can you check to see if the change fixes distortion in mediaplayer?

 -Rusty

 Dylan Reilly wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Al Johnson wrote:

 I noticed the high-pass, but came to acceptable results using
 alsamixer's bass-boost options. My main concern is with the
 distortion in the mids to highs. As far as I understand, the
 above mentioned postings only cover the high-pass problem.
 But I certainly don't understand all the technical stuff.

 Does anyone else experience distortion?

 I have also noticed some heinous distortion in the mid to high range
 through the media player in the latest 2007.02 builds. However, it is
 not present under Qtopia. I experimented mixing and matching kernels
 between the distributionsw and 2007.02 + Qtopia kernel still has the
 distortion.

 I did some more poking around (under 2007.02) and it seems the issue
 is related to pulse audio. Using madplay to play straight to /dev/dsp
 produces no distortion but madplay through pulse audio does. I don't
 know much about pulse audio; does anyone have any recommendations for
 a work-around?



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 --
 Dylan Maxwell Reilly




-- 
Dylan Maxwell Reilly

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Re: Matchbox Keyboard Layout Change

2008-07-21 Thread Ole Holm Frandsen
Den 21/07/2008 kl. 20.31 skrev arne anka:

 the keyboard - some scandinavian letters etc?

 självklart ;-)
 have a look at the file -- from my short glance yesterday it seems you
 just define the rows and what each button should be.

Hehe tak ;-) Fair, then there is not much that is left which prevents  
me from buying a Neo Freerunner... :-)
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Re: Special Letters?

2008-07-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:37 +0200 Ole Holm Frandsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:

 Sounds great that it will be possible to create better support for  
 Danish and other non-english languages. Does anyone know when the  
 SVN build might become stabile?
 But there is no way at the moment du fix this issue?

right now as of svn rev 151 of illume - the keyboard is fully functional, and
the internal illume one is enabled by default (no choice right now to turn it
off - will add that), and it ships with 3 layouts by default with a layout
selector. i changed the .kbd text format a little, but you can see examples of
inlt chars in the Numbers.kbd (i included a few). someone can make an Intl.kbd
with all the usual european accent chars in it and maybe russian and greek and
other .kbd files. have at it. maybe you want qwertz not qwerty? dunno. you guys
decide! i'm just trying to make it easy for you so that policy isnt locked in
code, and you just have config files or other config parameters you can twiddle
with to get what you want. it's not perfect, but it's not too shabby. again -
sorry for RtoL speakers. not supported (and RtoL languages are painful to
support especially for display in mixed LtoR and RtoL text). will one day get
to it.

nb - for asian languages (traditional or simplified chinese by zuhin or pinyin,
you will need ALSO an input method handler like uim, scim, kinput etc. etc.).

maybe it makes sense eventually fo the keyboard to also include input method
integration so the buffer when doing dictionary-lookup and correction displays
the input method compose buffer... but i'm going to worry about that after
simpler european langauges are done. (probably before RtoL though).

 Den 20/07/2008 kl. 17.59 skrev Michele Renda:
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
  in the end i imagine people might do custom layouts for a language  
  (eg german
  would only have ä, ö, ü and ß). romainian some other set, danish  
  another set.
 
  I think i can help we collect a series of layout to ship with  
  Freerunner.
 
  If we collect a person for every country we can provide a full set of
  keyboard layout (we can see the key are available in our keyboard).  
  They
  are text file so them will not take too much space.
  We need something to easily swith from a layout to the other (if it
  doesn't exist yet).
 
  Regards
  Michele
 Sounds like a great idea Michele and if made correctly it wouldn´t be  
 that difficult to implant in the SVN build that Carsten Haitzler is  
 talking about.
 
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
  iEYEARECAAYFAkiDYOUACgkQSIAU/I6SkT1AcwCfZqoDOohHCzChP8Pxr0XU0gA8
  kGIAn3R9F2oDJLZXJXQEJ7ZC9SdZOEfg
  =uDgl
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
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 Venlig Hilsen/Kind Regards
 Ole Holm Frandsen
 
 
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Re: Terminal for ASU

2008-07-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:18:50 +0200 Sven Klomp [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 On Monday 21 July 2008 05:30:09 Ken Restivo wrote:
  On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 08:20:46PM -0700, Brian C wrote:
   Ken Restivo wrote:
   1. It's an open platform, so it's inevitable that it will have a
   terminal.
  
   2. If it were not possible to have a terminal on ASU, then OpenMoko
   should just abandon ASU immediately.
  
   Therefore, you should feel free to open the bug.
 
  I'll wait to see if anyone responds with Sure, it has one, or you can use
  any terminal with it, here's how you get it to work, get it into the
  menu/icon/illume thing, make it use the keyboard, blah blah blah.
 
 Hm, I'm using the openmoko-terminal2 without problems on ASU. The tricky part 
 was to use the Illume keyboard with GTK applications. At freeyourphone.de was 
 a hint that you have to install ONLY  matchbox-keyboard-im (see 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner) and 
 GTK applications will start Illume keyboard. I know, it is strange. However 
 it worked :-)

the problem is the designers decided that ASU is not to have any manual
keyboard toggle button because it will disturb the design and/or confuse users,
so all apps and toolkits need modification to talk a protocol to bring up the
keyboard on demand (no manual controls). that is why you need to do this.
personally i think you need a manual control because, as such, many apps and
toolkits will not be changed, or they will get it wrong and give you a keyboard
when you don't want one, or decide not to give you one when you do... but
that's not my call.

but you will ned the matchbox- or multitap im module to send these messages.
qtopia-x11 has been patched todo this too. the illume keyboard also understands
a newer and much more reliable method of auto-requesting a virtual keyboard
(properties on your window), and i think holger has added support in qtopia-x11
for that now, but it also understands the older MB and multi-tap protocol... if
people want other protocols supported...let me know the details.

-- 
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Re: Why is Qtopia much faster?

2008-07-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:11:25 +0200 Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 This might be a stupid question, but it isn't the first and will not
 be the last stupid one I ask :).
 I have glimpsed at the 2007.2, ASU and qtopia image (the latest
 builds) and a very noticable difference is the speed.
 Will this improve in the ASU and the 2007.2 or should I not get my
 hopes on? Qtopia just responds and seems to load everything faster.

he real major problem is qt/qtopia and the x11 output. it is amazingly
inefficient. it does a whole set of no-no's when it comes to performance (like
uploading and downloading pixmaps and converting to/from image formats...
repeatedly). if you want things  to work well in x11:

1. only upload when you need a pixmap or data on screen... dont upload until
you need it.
2. never repeatedly upload if u can do it just once, so defer uploads of pixel
data as late as possible.
3. NEVER download (get images) from x. this will kill performance as it 1,
stalls your app into waiting on x, 2, needs to wait for data to be read from
video ram (slow - even on desktop systems), 3, causes yet more context
switching which is expensive on ARM.

one reason EFL gets the performance it does is it has an almost 1 way pipeline
with everything deferred as much a possible. be it software rendering or
xrender etc. - everything happens as late as possible. it never downloads data
from x... and man all of this really helps.

-- 
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