Re: [Om2009] bluetooth keyboard - key presses not making it to X

[Paul Fertser]

Tim Abell  writes:
> I've now updated to shr-unstable, and have exactly the same symptoms as 
> before, with  events showing in hcidump but not in xev. I've tried 
> changing the startup parameters of Xglamo as suggested, I tried removing 
> vt1, I tried replacing it with vt0 (x won't start like that), and vt2. 
> None of these fixed the problem.

Have you tried using Xorg instead of old buggy and unsupported Xglamo? 

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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[Vincent MEURISSE]

On Friday 03 July 2009 01:08:47 abatrour wrote:
> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? 
You go there and select no message delivery (I don't know the exact name of 
option)


You can also do this directly from nabble. But as nabble seams down for now, I 
can't give you the link. (Just answer to this message if you can't find it)
-- 
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Re: [shr-unstable] navit won't run

[Tim Abell]

To partially answer my own question,

opkg install navit-dev
(installs *lots* of dedpedencies)
http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg46634.html
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/linux/95395-navit-opensource-vector-based-navigation-program-routing-engine-6.html

navit now runs.

That probably needs a bug report against the shr packaging of navit...

Tim

Tim Abell wrote:
> Hiya,
>
> Can anyone help me get navit to run / figure out the problem?
>
> r...@om-gta02 ~ $ navit
> Enabling low-mem workaround...
> navit:vehicle_new:invalid type 'gpsd'
> navit:speech_new:wrong type 'cmdline'
> navit:navit_init:no gui
> navit:main:Using '/usr/share/navit/navit.xml'
> navit:main:No instance has been created, exiting
>
> It worked on shr-testing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim Abell
>
>
>   

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Re: [Om2009] bluetooth keyboard - key presses not making it to X

[Tim Abell]

Hiya,

Thanks for the suggestion. I had seen that bug but hadn't known what to try.

I've now updated to shr-unstable, and have exactly the same symptoms as 
before, with  events showing in hcidump but not in xev. I've tried 
changing the startup parameters of Xglamo as suggested, I tried removing 
vt1, I tried replacing it with vt0 (x won't start like that), and vt2. 
None of these fixed the problem.

It may be worth noting that if I stop X, then I don't get any output 
from the bluetooth keyboard appearing on the console on the phone unlike 
in the bug report you mention.

Any other ideas?

Tim

If I stop

Tim Abell wrote:
> I hadn't realised till now that SHR is the main focus of development, 
> so I have just reflashed with that and will try again.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim Abell
>
> Tim Abell wrote:
>> Al Johnson wrote:
>>> On Thursday 25 June 2009, Tim Abell wrote:
>>>   
 Hi all,

 I've got my bt keyboard connected, and according to hcidump I think the
 keypress events are getting to bluez, however they aren't getting to any
 applications, including xev.

 Does anyone know what I need to do to troubleshoot this?
 
>>>
>>> Sounds like bug #1796 [1]. It's the parameters passed when starting X that 
>>> are 
>>> the problem, and affects USB keyboards too. Look in /etc/X11/Xserver and 
>>> compare with the diff below - beware line wrap. If this is the problem then 
>>> please file a bug report.
>>>
>>> --- a/packages/xserver-kdrive-common/xserver-kdrive-common/openmoko/Xserver
>>> +++ b/packages/xserver-kdrive-common/xserver-kdrive-common/openmoko/Xserver
>>> @@ -93,7 +93,7 @@ case `module_id` in
>>>  modprobe mbxfb
>>>  ARGS="$ARGS -br -fb /dev/fb1" ;;
>>>  "GTA01" | "GTA02")
>>> -ARGS="$ARGS -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -root-
>>> ppm/usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash-vga.ppm vt1" ;;
>>> +ARGS="$ARGS -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -br" ;;
>>>  "Motorola Ezx Platform")
>>>  ARGS="$ARGS -dpi 170 -screen 240x320 -hide-cursor 
>>> -root-ppm 
>>> /usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash-qvga.ppm vt1" ;;
>>>  "Nokia N800")
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1796
>>>
>>>   
>> Thanks Al,
>>
>> My Xserver file isn't exactly the same, but I tried to make matching 
>> changes:
>>
>> r...@om-gta02:/etc/X11# diff Xserver.orig Xserver
>> --- Xserver.origThu Jun 25 19:36:17 2009
>> +++ XserverFri Jun 26 23:30:27 2009
>> @@ -113,7 +113,7 @@
>>  else
>>   DPI=140
>>  fi
>> -ARGS="$ARGS -dpi ${DPI} -screen ${SCREEN_SIZE} 
>> -mouse tslib -hide-cursor -root-ppm 
>> /usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash-vga.ppm vt1"
>> +ARGS="$ARGS -dpi ${DPI} -screen ${SCREEN_SIZE} 
>> -hide-cursor -br"
>>  XSERVER=/usr/bin/Xglamo
>>  ;;
>>  "Nokia N770")
>>
>>
>> I've attached the two versions, the original from my phone (.orig) 
>> and my attempt at modifying it (.bluetooth)
>>
>> The changes don't appear to have helped.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> 
>>
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[shr-unstable] navit won't run

[Tim Abell]

Hiya,

Can anyone help me get navit to run / figure out the problem?

r...@om-gta02 ~ $ navit
Enabling low-mem workaround...
navit:vehicle_new:invalid type 'gpsd'
navit:speech_new:wrong type 'cmdline'
navit:navit_init:no gui
navit:main:Using '/usr/share/navit/navit.xml'
navit:main:No instance has been created, exiting

It worked on shr-testing.

Thanks

Tim Abell

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Re: [all] how to switch to coreutils instead of busybox

[Stephen LePage]

>On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ivvmm  wrote:

> >Hello list,
> >
> >really fed up with thr lack of options in busybox tools, how can I
> >change all this easily? Want GNU tools.
> >
> >Help needed. Thanks.
>
>
> This should work
http://www.opkg.org/package_238.html

Just tested it and no immediate breakage yet...
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Re: Why is it so slow ?

[Marcel]

Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:40:08 schrieb Morten:
> Martin Bernreuther wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 2. Juli 2009 schrieb Bernd Prünster:
> >> export ELM_ENGINE=x11-16
> >> is the correct line that needs to be added to /etc/profile (just
> >> copied form my /etc/profile file, so make sure its correct)
> >
> > How about adding this information to the OpenMoko or distribution
> > specific Wiki?
> > (This was about SHR, wasn't it?) Or is it already there?
> >
> > Martin
>
> I agree, there's so many tricks that you just can't know them all by
> yourself. They should be written down (or made the default)

Maybe making up some kind of a "useful hints" page would be good, where 
every hint has tags for the distros it works with...?

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Re: Why is it so slow ?

[Morten]

Martin Bernreuther wrote:
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 2. Juli 2009 schrieb Bernd Prünster:
>> export ELM_ENGINE=x11-16
>> is the correct line that needs to be added to /etc/profile (just copied
>> form my /etc/profile file, so make sure its correct)
> 
> How about adding this information to the OpenMoko or distribution specific
> Wiki?
> (This was about SHR, wasn't it?) Or is it already there?
> 
> Martin
> 

I agree, there's so many tricks that you just can't know them all by
yourself. They should be written down (or made the default)
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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[Damian Spriggs]

Go to the list options page and select the digest option. That will  
only send one a day. Then in your mailer, create a filtering rule for  
the digest.

And it's not spam if you sign up for it. ;)

On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:08 PM, abatrour wrote:

>
> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? I only access  
> this forum
> through the openmoko/nabble website and I find it a huge annoyance  
> to be
> spammed messages every day.
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/How-to-stop-mailing-list-spam.-tp3198315p3198315.html
> Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[feywulf]

You could also setup a filter to redirect the emails to a folder other than 
your main inbox.

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Marcel  wrote:

> From: Marcel 
> Subject: Re: How to stop mailing list spam.
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 5:29 PM
> Does nabble require active
> subscription of yours? Hmm, sounds reasonable, 
> haven't used that too much yet. Another try: Look in the
> mailing list 
> settings (maybe http://lists.openmoko.org) to try and
> stop delivery to 
> your mail address since you read via nabble.
> 
> --
> Marcel
> 
> Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:22:19 schrieb abatrour:
> > But if I unsubscribe then I can't post threads or
> replies here...
> >
> > Marcel-2 wrote:
> > > Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:08:47 schrieb
> abatrour:
> > >> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my
> inbox? I only access
> > >> this forum through the openmoko/nabble
> website and I find it a huge
> > >> annoyance to be spammed messages every day.
> > >
> > > You might send a mail with "unsubscribe" as
> caption to
> > > community-requ...@lists.openmoko.org
> > > that will unsubscribe you from the list (who'd
> have guessed that?). I
> > > don't kno if you get subscribed automatically by
> nabble or something
> > > though...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marcel
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


  

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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[Marcel]

Does nabble require active subscription of yours? Hmm, sounds reasonable, 
haven't used that too much yet. Another try: Look in the mailing list 
settings (maybe http://lists.openmoko.org) to try and stop delivery to 
your mail address since you read via nabble.

--
Marcel

Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:22:19 schrieb abatrour:
> But if I unsubscribe then I can't post threads or replies here...
>
> Marcel-2 wrote:
> > Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:08:47 schrieb abatrour:
> >> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? I only access
> >> this forum through the openmoko/nabble website and I find it a huge
> >> annoyance to be spammed messages every day.
> >
> > You might send a mail with "unsubscribe" as caption to
> > community-requ...@lists.openmoko.org
> > that will unsubscribe you from the list (who'd have guessed that?). I
> > don't kno if you get subscribed automatically by nabble or something
> > though...
> >
> > --
> > Marcel
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[abatrour]

But if I unsubscribe then I can't post threads or replies here...


Marcel-2 wrote:
> 
> Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:08:47 schrieb abatrour:
>> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? I only access this
>> forum through the openmoko/nabble website and I find it a huge
>> annoyance to be spammed messages every day.
> 
> You might send a mail with "unsubscribe" as caption to 
> community-requ...@lists.openmoko.org
> that will unsubscribe you from the list (who'd have guessed that?). I 
> don't kno if you get subscribed automatically by nabble or something 
> though...
> 
> --
> Marcel
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 

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Anti-glare coating

[Cry]

Can anyone suggest a good anti-glare coating?  I can't use my freerunner in the
daylight because I can't see the screen.

Also, is their a service in the US that can replace a scratched screen or a
procedure such as fingernail polish to repair a surface scratch?

Thanks!

Cry


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Re: How to stop mailing list spam.

[Marcel]

Am Freitag, 3. Juli 2009 01:08:47 schrieb abatrour:
> How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? I only access this
> forum through the openmoko/nabble website and I find it a huge
> annoyance to be spammed messages every day.

You might send a mail with "unsubscribe" as caption to 
community-requ...@lists.openmoko.org
that will unsubscribe you from the list (who'd have guessed that?). I 
don't kno if you get subscribed automatically by nabble or something 
though...

--
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How to stop mailing list spam.

[abatrour]

How do I stop all the emails being sent to my inbox? I only access this forum
through the openmoko/nabble website and I find it a huge annoyance to be
spammed messages every day.
-- 
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[all] how to switch to coreutils instead of busybox

[ivvmm]

Hello list,

really fed up with thr lack of options in busybox tools, how can I
change all this easily? Want GNU tools.

Help needed. Thanks.



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Re: Why is it so slow ?

[Martin Bernreuther]

Am Donnerstag, 2. Juli 2009 schrieb Bernd Prünster:
> export ELM_ENGINE=x11-16
> is the correct line that needs to be added to /etc/profile (just copied form 
> my /etc/profile file, so make sure its correct)

How about adding this information to the OpenMoko or distribution specific Wiki?
(This was about SHR, wasn't it?) Or is it already there?

Martin

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Re: [QtMoko] bluetooth keyboard

[Fabio Locati]

afaik, the bluetooth does NOT work in qtmoko

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:50 PM, mobi phil wrote:
> I wonder if anybody managed to setup the keyboard with the bluetooth tool
> inside QT. The tool asks to insert the pin and then to insert it on the
> keyboard, however it stays connected only 1-2 seconds. Any idea?
>
> I can however connect with the method described on
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freedom_Slim_Keyboard
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> being mobile, but including technology
> http://mobiphil.com
>
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>



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[QtMoko] bluetooth keyboard

[mobi phil]

I wonder if anybody managed to setup the keyboard with the bluetooth tool
inside QT. The tool asks to insert the pin and then to insert it on the
keyboard, however it stays connected only 1-2 seconds. Any idea?

I can however connect with the method described on

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freedom_Slim_Keyboard





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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 06:34:00PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:

> I was thinking of using the audio jack or to be more specific, the
> microphone line. Each revolution would connect the wires (with a
> resistor maybe?) to create a pulse in the microphone line. This could
> be recorded and analyzed with SW.

   It's okay to short the mic input to ground. With mic bias voltage enabled
(an ALSA control somewhere) you should get key presses and releases reported
in /dev/input/event*.

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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Michal Brzozowski]

2009/7/2 Risto H. Kurppa 

> Hi!
>
> I bike and I have a Freerunner.
>
>
Me too! :-)

On Saturday I'm going on a 4 day bike trip. I plan to use Tango for
navigation. I'll tell you how it went. I'm taking a paper map and a motorola
too just in case :-)

Michal
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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Al Johnson]

On Thursday 02 July 2009, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I bike and I have a Freerunner.
>
> GPS apps, like omgps are able to show & record the position, speed,
> length of track etc.
>
> 1) I'm missing the cadence display = the number of revolutions of the
> crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the speed at which a
> cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals.
>
> -> any ideas how to build this, both hardware and software (=how to
> convince some GPS software guy to implement it :)
>
> I was thinking of using the audio jack or to be more specific, the
> microphone line. Each revolution would connect the wires (with a
> resistor maybe?) to create a pulse in the microphone line. This could
> be recorded and analyzed with SW.
>
> 2) Another thing missing is a tool to analyze my GPS track on-the-fly:
> show the speed vs. time plot.
>
> Thanks for your ideas! Extra thanks if I'm able to have this up and
> running in a week, planning to do a 170-200km bike trip in a day :)
>
> (more over, I think there could be a need for proper bike-oriented app
> for Freerunner. Map display's nice but many other features might come
> more important for people riding bike, like heart frequency, cadence,
> current speed, avg, maybe also set target length and estimate the time
> to reach it (I know Navit ~does this) etc.. -  anyone interested?!)

You could get a USB ANT receiver for ~$35 and write some code. It uses the 
FTDI usb-serial driver. There's example VB code for talking to Garmin 
heartrate monitors, and Garmin also have bike wheel and cadence sensors which 
you should be able to find on amazon if you search for "forerunner cadence" or 
similar. Suunto, VDO and others are doing bike and heart rate sensors using 
ANT too, and a few companies are also making power meters. The forum thread 
below contains linux c code for reading from Garmin, Suunto and other 
heartrate monitor belts. It's a bit old so there may have been some progress 
since then.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8840
http://developer.garmin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=806&sid=75a21fca082b78b74e56dc3465ea2b03


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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Laszlo KREKACS]

> Umh, you may take the freerunner attached to your leg and use accelerometers?

Im thinking about using the neo freerunner while Im running/jogging.
It could count my steps (using the accelerometer data), measure the
exact distance, and plot the average speed across the distance.
It could have many sexy statistics like calories, average "step distance",
etc, etc.

The ultimate feature would be of building some training course.
Like the new could say, you are 1.3 sec behind of your average speed,
helping with some music the jogging. It could warn if your step distance
decrease. It could even help of developping your jogging skills.
It could even measure the vertical distance (so how much do you
jump while runnig), etc, etc.

It looks like the same as attaching the neo to your leg while cycling.
(while jogging, we have much more freedom where we want to
wear the neo)

So I was already toying with the idea. I hope somebody gets
his hand dirty...

Best regards,
 Laszlo

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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Anthony Clearn]

Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> 
> 
> 1) I'm missing the cadence display...
> ...-> any ideas how to build this
> planning to do a 170-200km bike trip in a day :)
> 

Here are some ideas:

as an extension of the above post:

Place a Neodymium Magnet 1mm on the crank and as has been said a hall sensor
fixed perhaps behind the bottom bracket cup with the wire routed along the
inside of the frame, out via seatpost or headset cap or breathing hole,
mount point, etc. Epoxy resin / cyanoacrylate might hold the magnet in place
to avoid drilling, as it may not be a good idea to cause a weak spot in your
cranks!

You might want to check out how ABS works also, afaik basically a toothed
wheel and hall sensor - which might mean the crank arm would cause a pulse.
I'm not sure about this

On a different tack, how about an optical sensor from a mouse / printer?
This could be a good use of an otherwise redundant piece of computer waste.
:) Though dirt may be a problem here. Also I can't see how to mount it
easily.
 
While your at how about some strain gauges and some  glue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_power_meter

Best of luck on your cycle, are you using opencyclemap? Where are you
cycling?



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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Laszlo
KREKACS wrote:
> Need a serious benchmark here, if the extra overhead is true or not.

Ok, I have written the python implementation of the file archive maker.
I need to finish (ie. write the unpacking part) of it.

I compiled few benchmarks...

I compressed the whole OSM maps tiles on my laptop (I repeated it 10 times):
l...@buldergep:~/Maps/OSM$ echo -e "\noutput.kiss"; time python
../../Asztal/down/openmoko/paroli/data/kiss/kiss.py >>
../report.txt;mv output.kiss ..; echo -e "\noutput.tar"; time tar -cf
../output.tar .; echo -e "\noutput.zip"; time zip -0 -r output * >>
../report.txt; mv output.zip ..; echo -e "\noutput_comp.zip"; time zip
-r output_comp * >> ../report.txt; mv output_comp.zip ..; rm
../output*; rm ../report.txt

output.kiss

real0m4.447s
user0m2.748s
sys 0m1.520s

output.tar

real0m4.039s
user0m0.236s
sys 0m1.188s

output.zip

real0m5.556s
user0m1.276s
sys 0m2.632s

output_comp.zip

real0m12.438s
user0m8.437s
sys 0m2.620s


So the speed is about the same as in .tar file case. And it beats the zip.
File sizes:
-rw-r--r-- 1 lol lol 109M 2009-07-02 19:11 output_comp.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 lol lol 125M 2009-07-02 19:11 output.kiss
-rw-r--r-- 1 lol lol 156M 2009-07-02 19:11 output.tar
-rw-r--r-- 1 lol lol 113M 2009-07-02 19:11 output.zip

-rw-r--r--  1 lol lol  93M 2009-07-02 19:11 output.kiss.bz2
-rw-r--r--  1 lol lol  94M 2009-07-02 19:11 output.tar.bz2

Total size of invidual files:
l...@buldergep:~/Maps/OSM$ du -hs .
290M.

Pretty strange, it reserves half the size 

I think this file format worth the effort.

Best regards,
 Laszlo

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Re: linphone 3.1.0

[Al Johnson]

On Thursday 02 July 2009, Denis Shulyaka wrote:
> Hi! I'm trying to use linphone on Om2009 and can't get sound working
> properly. Which asound.conf and voip.state file should I use? I tried
> opnes from koolu.org but all I got was ringing sound, no voice in any
> direction. The ringing sound was from speaker, not earpiece.

I haven't tried it on Om2009 yet. On FSO-ms5 I used the voip-handset.state 
that was already in FSO, and http://www.koolu.org/asound.conf

Did you remember to switch the mixer state? This needs to be done manually 
because linphone isn't FSO-aware yet. If the ring came from the speaker then 
either voip-handset.state wasn't the active state or it has changed. IIRC 
linphone has play and record options that should let you check its audio 
settings independent of any problems you may be having with SIP.

I'm planning to give OM2009 a try soon, so I may have some more ideas soon.



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Re: linphone 3.1.0

[Denis Shulyaka]

Hi! I'm trying to use linphone on Om2009 and can't get sound working
properly. Which asound.conf and voip.state file should I use? I tried
opnes from koolu.org but all I got was ringing sound, no voice in any
direction. The ringing sound was from speaker, not earpiece.

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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Cameron Frazier]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:

> 1) I'm missing the cadence display = the number of revolutions of the
> crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the speed at which a
> cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals.


For cadence detection, a hall effect sensor and a small magnet would
cover it and have no moving parts/contacts ( see [1] for an example),
you could do the same for wheels if you wanted to, though that would
require some form of pre-processing to multiplex the signals I would
think.

[1] http://www.instructables.com/id/RGBike-POV-Open-project/

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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[jeremy jozwik]

speaking of this again. im still waiting for a car lap tracking app
ala iphones lap timmer

http://web.me.com/hschlangmann/LapTimer_Homepage/Snapshots/Seiten/Snapshots_LapTimer_%28iPhone%29.html

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Nicola Mfb wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I bike and I have a Freerunner.
>>
>> GPS apps, like omgps are able to show & record the position, speed,
>> length of track etc.
>>
>> 1) I'm missing the cadence display = the number of revolutions of the
>> crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the speed at which a
>> cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals.
>>
>> -> any ideas how to build this, both hardware and software (=how to
>> convince some GPS software guy to implement it :)
>
> Umh, you may take the freerunner attached to your leg and use accelerometers?
>
>Nicola
>
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Re: Turn FR into bike meter

[Nicola Mfb]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I bike and I have a Freerunner.
>
> GPS apps, like omgps are able to show & record the position, speed,
> length of track etc.
>
> 1) I'm missing the cadence display = the number of revolutions of the
> crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the speed at which a
> cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals.
>
> -> any ideas how to build this, both hardware and software (=how to
> convince some GPS software guy to implement it :)

Umh, you may take the freerunner attached to your leg and use accelerometers?

Nicola

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Turn FR into bike meter

[Risto H. Kurppa]

Hi!

I bike and I have a Freerunner.

GPS apps, like omgps are able to show & record the position, speed,
length of track etc.

1) I'm missing the cadence display = the number of revolutions of the
crank per minute; roughly speaking, this is the speed at which a
cyclist is pedalling/turning the pedals.

-> any ideas how to build this, both hardware and software (=how to
convince some GPS software guy to implement it :)

I was thinking of using the audio jack or to be more specific, the
microphone line. Each revolution would connect the wires (with a
resistor maybe?) to create a pulse in the microphone line. This could
be recorded and analyzed with SW.

2) Another thing missing is a tool to analyze my GPS track on-the-fly:
show the speed vs. time plot.

Thanks for your ideas! Extra thanks if I'm able to have this up and
running in a week, planning to do a 170-200km bike trip in a day :)

(more over, I think there could be a need for proper bike-oriented app
for Freerunner. Map display's nice but many other features might come
more important for people riding bike, like heart frequency, cadence,
current speed, avg, maybe also set target length and estimate the time
to reach it (I know Navit ~does this) etc.. -  anyone interested?!)


r

ps. http://www.obico.de/

-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi

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Re: [shr-unstable] 20090624 suspend off not really off?

[jeremy jozwik]

well, as far as getting the slider to stay where i want it to be.

as far as the suspend actually being off, ill let you know in 6,ooo seconds.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:50 AM, jeremy jozwik wrote:
> crap. your right! sorry all.
> well. good to know its not broken.
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM, mqy wrote:
>>
>> I assume that auto-suspending is disabled by some app while you try adjusting
>> in SHR-settings :)
>> Auto suspending is disabled by omgps, you can't adjust auto-suspending when
>> omgps is running.
>>
>>
>> vendion wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just noticed the opposite problem, I am unable to get shr-
>>> unstable to auto suspend.  Going to shr settings -> Power and using
>>> the slider for the auto suspend to try an enable it does not work,
>>> when I drag it, the slider just goes back to "disabled" no matter how
>>> many times I try it or even how long I hold it there.
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:23 PM, jeremy jozwik wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://n2.nabble.com/-shr-unstable--20090624-suspend-off-not-really-off--tp3192622p3193723.html
>> Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
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>

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Re: [shr-unstable] 20090624 suspend off not really off?

[jeremy jozwik]

crap. your right! sorry all.
well. good to know its not broken.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM, mqy wrote:
>
> I assume that auto-suspending is disabled by some app while you try adjusting
> in SHR-settings :)
> Auto suspending is disabled by omgps, you can't adjust auto-suspending when
> omgps is running.
>
>
> vendion wrote:
>>
>> I have just noticed the opposite problem, I am unable to get shr-
>> unstable to auto suspend.  Going to shr settings -> Power and using
>> the slider for the auto suspend to try an enable it does not work,
>> when I drag it, the slider just goes back to "disabled" no matter how
>> many times I try it or even how long I hold it there.
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:23 PM, jeremy jozwik wrote:
>> ...
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/-shr-unstable--20090624-suspend-off-not-really-off--tp3192622p3193723.html
> Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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RE: Training France Openmoko Android...where?

[travisniel]

 A comment can be found on the rootdsp.eu course a google group discussion 

 http://groups.google.fr/group/embedded-linux-embarque

Does anyone been on the bignerdranch course?

Travis

>Has anyone been on either the bignerdranch Android course or the RootDSP.eu 
>course? Can they recommend either?

QUOTE Nevel:
>Low level stuff which is a lot easier than doing application level
>programming like on the .

>Low level is easier then high level programming? Have you ever done any low 
>level programming...I dont think so!!



Message: 9
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:49:00 +0200
From: Nevel Shute 
Subject: Re: Training France Openmoko Android...where?
To: smartphones-userland at linuxtogo.org
Message-ID:
   <8a44c4690905181449i44d6f16dja80770edfe3fd869 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

bignerdranch.com is
about programming in the Android enviroenment, high level. Helps with
programming applications for the Android based phone. Sounds interesting and
useful. Where as RootDSP.eu is about embedded programming, drivers and just
uses the Openmoko phone and flashs Android as a prelude/example to the
overall how to embed an OS.
Low level stuff which is a lot easier than doing application level
programming like on the .

I think I will  go on the German course later this year.

--

> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 21:05:04 + (GMT)
> From: Jackie BESNARD 
> Subject: Re: Training France Openmoko Android...where?
> To: Smartphones-userland at linuxtogo.org
> Message-ID: <669720.44439.qm at web27301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> This on is in France.
>
> rootdsp.eu
>
>
> - Original Nachricht 
> Von: arne anka 
> An:  smartphones-userland at linuxtogo.org
> Datum:   15.05.2009 15:22
> Betreff: Re: Training France Openmoko Android...where?
>
> > Have look on internet for new company who do Openmoko with Android
> > training
>
> and i was thinking, android was intuitive ... silly me.
>
> > I hear about, but cannot find!
> >
> > Does any one no where or who there are?
>
> what about asking google fro "android +training"?
> several companies are coming up and the first one has different phone
> numbers to call and ask for north america, europe and asia pacific.
> > http://www.bignerdranch.com/classes/android.shtml
>
>
> > Gutten righter
>
> whatever that means.
>




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Traverse unt de Niel


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Der Arcor-Online Butler loggt Sie automatisch in unsere Online-Dienste ein und 
Sie kommen mit einem Klick zu Ihren E-Mails, zum Chat und vielem mehr.
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Re: Why is it so slow ?

[Nicola Mfb]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Sebastian
Krzyszkowiak wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 22:57, Nicola Mfb wrote:
>> Again for the same reason you see, in the case of SHR for example,
>> python apps interacting with python ophonekitd, interacting with
>> python framework.
>
> You're wrong. In SHR, python apps which are in default image are only
> pyphonelog, frameworkd, shr-settings and notifier. ophonekitd,
> libframeworkd-phonegui and libframeworkd-phonegui-efl are written in
> C, and ophonekitd is being rewritten in Vala.

Sorry ophonekitd's vala rewriting confused my memory :) please ignore
it, I really meant to focus about  the actual software architecture
and the development approach in general.

Regards

 Nicola

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Re: [omgps] collect feature requests

[kimaidou]

> I usually add detail (housenumbers etc.) to areas that are already well
> mapped, so making OSM directly won't work for me. The road is already
> there, for example. GPX comments makes it easy to add only the stuff
> that is new.


Good point, so my next idea : have the 2 features ;)
* one "map from scratch into .osm" when you KNOW there is nothing here -->
directly in osm format (especially for poi, because roads require some basic
"post-processing" to become a way in osm (simplify, cut, etc.)
* one "map for josm into .GPX : what you said

Kimaidou
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Re: [shr-unstable] 20090624 suspend off not really off?

[Tschaka]

vendion wrote:
> 
> I have just noticed the opposite problem, I am unable to get shr- 
> unstable to auto suspend.  Going to shr settings -> Power and using  
> the slider for the auto suspend to try an enable it does not work,  
> when I drag it, the slider just goes back to "disabled" no matter how  
> many times I try it or even how long I hold it there.
> 

I'm experiencing the exact same problem with the 20090624 SHR Unstable. This
is can only be fixed by rebooting. What i experienced is, that this is
always happening when starting Mokomaze and tangogps (i suspect other
suspend-preventing apps would have the same effect). After the program gets
closed, autosuspend doesnt work again. 

However, i set up this Wifi script, which requests the cpu and sets it back
to auto when turning wifi off again. The particular commands are:

mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage
org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy CPU enabled

mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage
org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy CPU auto

When using these commands, autosuspend works flawlessly. which commands are
omgps, tangogps, mokomaze using? In mokomaze you can specify the particular
commands per config. i put in those above, only with "CPU" replaced by
"Display", autosuspend doesnt work again though after closing mokomaze. The
display dimms anyway.


vendion wrote:
> 
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:23 PM, jeremy jozwik wrote:
> 
>> list! shr-unstable issue on the table for today. i have just noticed
>> my phone is continually going into suspend mode even though both
>> enlightenment and shr suspends are disabled.
>>
>> is there something in frameworkd.confg that can kill suspend from auto
>> happening but still allow for power menu suspending?
>>
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View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: Why is it so slow ?

[Sebastian Krzyszkowiak]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 22:57, Nicola Mfb wrote:
> Again for the same reason you see, in the case of SHR for example,
> python apps interacting with python ophonekitd, interacting with
> python framework.

You're wrong. In SHR, python apps which are in default image are only
pyphonelog, frameworkd, shr-settings and notifier. ophonekitd,
libframeworkd-phonegui and libframeworkd-phonegui-efl are written in
C, and ophonekitd is being rewritten in Vala.

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Re: [omgps] collect feature requests

[Helge Hafting]

Marcel wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2009 13:48:05 schrieb Patryk Benderz:
>>> make it track-friendly for OSM map and JOMS application. Please feel
>>> free to comment or add new feature requests here.
>> Feature request: add support for vector/binary maps.
> 
> That would be really nice. Problem might be the low render speed for 
> vector maps though which navit suffers from... Maybe there are ways to 
> speed it up?

For the freerunner, make sure you do all tour drawing calculations with
integer math only. No floating point coordinates.

Helge Hafting

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Re: [omgps] collect feature requests

[Helge Hafting]

kimaidou wrote:
> Hum... speaking as a OpenStreetMap user, it would be great to "merge" 
> the functionalities of omgsp with those of a tool like
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomapper
> meaning big buttons (9 per full-screen) allowing to store preset OSM 
> data such as "shop=bakery", "highway=residential", "amenity=pub", etc.. 
> and be able to export directly in osm format.

Nice idea. And if I export GPX instead of OSM, include all that
pub/bakery/... stuff as comments. (The gpx format support comments) 
These comments then show up in JOSM - very useful.

I usually add detail (housenumbers etc.) to areas that are already well 
mapped, so making OSM directly won't work for me. The road is already 
there, for example. GPX comments makes it easy to add only the stuff 
that is new.

Helge Hafting


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what is situation of qemu-neo1973?

[Aapo Rantalainen]

Is anybody working with or under qemu?


I tried follow wiki but svn repository has old dated address where it
search images.

svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973
cd qemu-neo1973
./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu  # GCC 3.x will be required, see --cc=
make

wget http://cc.oulu.fi/~rantalai/freerunner/qemu/env_om2009.diff
patch -p0 < env_om2009.diff
openmoko/download.sh
openmoko/flash.sh
arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M gta01 -m 130 -mtdblock
openmoko/openmoko-flash.image -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin
-usb -show-cursor

#It starts to boot menu, but selecting boot will reboot it back to boot menu.

#I changed older u-boot (I didn't find it from official page, so I uploaded it)
cd openmoko
rm u-boot-*
wget http://cc.oulu.fi/~rantalai/freerunner/qemu/u-boot-gta01bv4.bin
cd ..

#reflash and now kernel will start. first boot takes time.
openmoko/flash.sh
arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M gta01 -m 130 -mtdblock
openmoko/openmoko-flash.image -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin
-usb -show-cursor

#But it stopped 'paroli stopped unexpectable..." and mouse clicking
doesn't respond

#When I change kernel older one, I got it running (but there might be
some problems with modules)
cd openmoko
rm u-Image*
wget http://cc.oulu.fi/~rantalai/freerunner/qemu/u-Image-2.6.24-om-gta01.bin
cd ..

#reflash and now paroli will start. first boot takes time.
openmoko/flash.sh
arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M gta01 -m 130 -mtdblock
openmoko/openmoko-flash.image -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin
-usb -show-cursor

#Pressing enter (AUX) two seconds bring settings, but there are no
display-entry, so I do not know how to continue with this.

#Then I changed rootfs too to SHR (and renamed it, so we can use same
flashing script)
cd openmoko
rm fso-paroli-image-om-gta01.jffs2
wget 
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta01/shr-lite-image-om-gta01.jffs2
-O fso-paroli-image-om-gta01.jffs2
cd ..

#reflash and now SHR will start. first boot takes time.
openmoko/flash.sh
arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M gta01 -m 130 -mtdblock
openmoko/openmoko-flash.image -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin
-usb -show-cursor


Now I have SHR running with old kernel. Then I want ssh to it, but
easiest way on wiki [1] uses pppd, which doesn't work on this kernel
(missing modules). So I think this is dead end. This is only little
bit better than famous 'Kernel is... not found', but maybe some one
else want confirm this and try another solution?

-Aapo Rantalainen

[1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Jose Luis Perez Diez]

El Wednesday, 1 de July de 2009 23:20:40 Laszlo KREKACS va escriure:
> ## General properties
> - blocksize: 512 bytes
> - only store filename (and directory if any) and content
> - first file contains the filenames
> - header: start block, end block, position of last block
>
> ## Overall file structure
> [header][filenames][1. file][2. file][3. file]
>
> ## [header]
> [SB][EB][POS] [SB][EB][POS] [SB][EB][POS] etc..

My first reaction to this was: Why do you need this?

My points are:

1- With this format the resulting archive is near read only (every few inserts 
 need the whole file should be rewrote.
 One could use a loop mounted filesystem and use well tested tools.

2- To make it usefull with every app I think we need to mount it with fuse.

3- Not enogh metadata.

I think it could be simpler that way

Metadata Block [0..511]
  [0..3] Previus # metadata block (last block for fist metadata block)
  [4..7] Next#Metadata Block (First on last metadata block
  [8..]  Metadata_items   #list of  Metadata_item
   
Metadata_item
   [0..1] Metadata_size #Bytes;
   [2] Kind # of metadata (Name, Block,Size, Date,CRC, ...)
   [3..6] file Id 
   [8..Metadata_size-1] Value;

Block Value 
 [0..3] Start Block
 [4..7] End Block

The example on QA soud could have the folowing metadata be:

  00 00 00 00 # Previous 
  00 00 00 00 # Next 
  00 1F 01 00 00 00 01 "first filename.extension" #31 Bytes Name id 1
  00 11 01 00 00 00 02 "second try" # 17 Bytes Name id 2
  00 1D 01 00 00 00 03 "I want a sexy name.txt" #29 Bytes Name id 4
  00 0F 02 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 02 # id 1 blocks 1-2
  00 0F 02 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 04 # id 2 blocks 3-4
  00 0F 02 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 05 00 00 00 08 # id 3 blocks 5-8
  00 0B 03 00 00 00 01 00 00 03 00 #id 1 768 bytes
  00 0B 03 00 00 00 02 00 00 04 00 #id 2 1024 bytes
  00 0B 03 00 00 00 03 00 00 07 FF #id 3 2047 bytes
  00 00 #end of metadata

And a total file size of 9 blocks or 4608 bytes but with the same disk usage 
of 8kb.

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Alexander Shulgin]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:15, Laszlo
KREKACS wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Alexander Shulgin 
> wrote:
>> I fail to see how is this true for normal tar files (vs. data read
>> from pipe).  Can you elaborate please?
>
> Yepp, of course;)
>
[snip]
>
> Simplification of tar archive:
> [1. file header][1. file][2.file header][2. file][3. file header][3. file]
>
> So how you read the third file from the archive? You read the file until the
> [3. file header], your test is successfull (is it the right file?),
> and you read the
> file itself. You see? You have read the whole file, just accessing the
> last item inside.

Yes, but is lseek(2) banned on neo?  This is what I was talking about
then mentioned normal files (i.e. not pipes). :)

>> Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't zip -0 do the trick for your purpose? :)
>
> It will do more or less, however there are three main problems with it:
>
> 1. you can only obtain the whole file from the archive. So you cant
>  read a part of the file. So if you packed lets say a 700MB file to zip,
>  you run out of memory on neo.
>  At least this is the case on standard python zipfile module.
>
> 2. There is no random access feature, at
>    least not in standard python modules.
> 3. There are significant processor time wasted when accessing to a file
>   (many computation required). Btw, it needs to benchmark on the neo, how
>   worse is it.

OK, I see now.  Thanks for explanation.

--
Cheers,
Alex

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SMS Notification broken in Koolu beta 7

[Steve " 'dillo" Okay (Roadknight Mobility Labs)]

I've posted about this once before but didn't have much time to  
investigate until now.
Tonight, though, I came across something that has me pretty sure that  
there's something broken in Koolu Beta 7 WRT
how incoming SMSes are detected and notification is handled.

In short, the symptom is that when running Koolu Beta 7, text messages  
sent to the FR seem to never arrive.
They never get bounced back to the sender either, nor do they silently  
appear in my SMS inbox, they just sort of seem to disappear off into  
the ether.

I have the Adafruit SIM reader and plugged the SIM from my FR into it.  
There were 9 text messages
on the SIM from each of several different occasions over the past week  
or two when I've sent an SMS
to the FR  at random times. In each instance, it seems like the  
message never arrives, but
apparently they have been received and stored on the SIM, but that  
isn't being picked up on by Android.

So, some sort of notification/ event handling is broken in how Koolu  
notifies WRT incoming SMSes.
I've looked around on a couple Android forums and there seems to be a  
few others having this problem
but no immediate solution or workaround and there are others who say  
that they're not having this problem.

I'm posting what I've found here to bump this topic up some and  
hopefully get it some more attention.
I'm going to try to take a look at the source(s) this weekend and see  
if I can figure out what's going on, but was also hoping
that somebody else might have seen this and know if there's a fix or  
workaround.

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Michal Brzozowski]

2009/7/2 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller 

> I do not completely understand the reasons why there is a need for
> (once again) a new file format.
> As far as I understand the proposal, it is just a file system running
> in an image file. Like mounting an ISO or any other file system
> residing not on a raw disk but within a file.
>

Good point. You can divide the archive into 100kb blocks and use mount -o
loop on them. When you run out of space, just create a new block.
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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

I do not completely understand the reasons why there is a need for  
(once again) a new file format.
As far as I understand the proposal, it is just a file system running  
in an image file. Like mounting an ISO or any other file system  
residing not on a raw disk but within a file.

So what problem does it solve better than just using the existing file  
system hierarchy directly (/tiles/z/y/x.png)? If it does not compress,  
has no directories, is not faster and is not more reliable as William  
pointed out.
I see only one benefit - you can copy the whole archive as a single  
object instead of copying a file tree.

New file formats usually create more problems than they solve...

Am 02.07.2009 um 10:08 schrieb William Kenworthy:

> I hope not - I have over 2 million tiles stored on SD card - if file
> corruption or disaster occurs, it may affect only one tile if its  
> being
> accessed at the time - imagine the effect of file system corruption on
> one large archive ... you will most likely lose the lot.
>
> Then there is the extra overhead needed - Ive gotta ask "why"? - if  
> you
> can justify the extra cpu needed for this, why not do vector maps?
>
> BillK
>
>
> On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 00:42 -0700, mqy wrote:
>> x and y are tile no in tile coordinate system within range of [0..  
>> 2^zoom).
>> just do it if you have time, since proof of concept is necessary :)  
>> keep in
>> mind clear APIs.
>> it's likely that, the final version to be integrated into omgps is  
>> rewritten
>> in C.
>>
>>
>> Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
>>>
>>> If I understand right the OSM tiles, they have the following  
>>> directory
>>> ...
>>>
>>
> -- 
> William Kenworthy 
> Home in Perth!
>
>
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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:08 AM, William Kenworthy wrote:
> I hope not - I have over 2 million tiles stored on SD card - if file
> corruption or disaster occurs, it may affect only one tile if its being
> accessed at the time

My experience differs completely from yours.

>- imagine the effect of file system corruption on
> one large archive ... you will most likely lose the lot.

I would even prefer to loosing my map files (backups?), than
crashing the whole filesystem.

However this is not the case. I dont intent to push "pack everything
into a single file". Instead have about 1MB files. (or pack subdirs only)
So if you want to loose something, loose 1MB.
But this fileformat should be safe enough, if the header is untouched,
you can recover files from the archive (and there are the checksum
options too)

> Then there is the extra overhead needed - Ive gotta ask "why"? - if you
> can justify the extra cpu needed for this, why not do vector maps?

Need a serious benchmark here, if the extra overhead is true or not.

In opposite of your opinion, I expect speed improvements. ;)

Laszlo

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[William Kenworthy]

I hope not - I have over 2 million tiles stored on SD card - if file
corruption or disaster occurs, it may affect only one tile if its being
accessed at the time - imagine the effect of file system corruption on
one large archive ... you will most likely lose the lot.

Then there is the extra overhead needed - Ive gotta ask "why"? - if you
can justify the extra cpu needed for this, why not do vector maps?

BillK


On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 00:42 -0700, mqy wrote:
> x and y are tile no in tile coordinate system within range of [0.. 2^zoom).
> just do it if you have time, since proof of concept is necessary :) keep in
> mind clear APIs.
> it's likely that, the final version to be integrated into omgps is rewritten
> in C.
> 
> 
> Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
> > 
> > If I understand right the OSM tiles, they have the following directory
> > ...
> > 
> 
-- 
William Kenworthy 
Home in Perth!


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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

> Here is the updated specification (I added two more faq entries,
> max filesize and max filename length):
> http://pastebin.com/f51927121


I made a small mistake (header structure), here we go:
http://pastebin.com/f5feafd7a

Laszlo

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:42 AM, mqy wrote:
>
> x and y are tile no in tile coordinate system within range of [0.. 2^zoom).
> just do it if you have time, since proof of concept is necessary :) keep in
> mind clear APIs.
> it's likely that, the final version to be integrated into omgps is rewritten
> in C.

Ok. I'll do it.

I will put the [filenames] section at the end of file. That way appending
to the file is dead simple.
The header structure will be the same, so between 10-20 bytes are
always the [filenames] position.

I was thinking more about the metadata stuff. If we agree on a filename,
like .metadata-kiss, and attache it as a simple file, there is no importance
where in the archive should be placed (but I think should be placed at
the end):
[header]
[1. file]
[2. file]
[3. file = metadata file]
[filenames]


But metadata is really for future consideration (if people find this
archive format useful).

I will also make some test archive file along with the kiss and unkiss
program, to easy implementing.

Here is the updated specification (I added two more faq entries,
max filesize and max filename length):
http://pastebin.com/f51927121

Laszlo

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[mqy]

x and y are tile no in tile coordinate system within range of [0.. 2^zoom).
just do it if you have time, since proof of concept is necessary :) keep in
mind clear APIs.
it's likely that, the final version to be integrated into omgps is rewritten
in C.


Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
> 
> If I understand right the OSM tiles, they have the following directory
> ...
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/New-archive-file-format-%28was%3A--omgps--collect-feature-requests%29-tp3191899p3193890.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Patryk Benderz wrote:
> - only store filename (and directory if any) and content"
> It might be convenient for future to store file properties like time of
> modification. This way you could implement automatic update of tiles
> that have been modified since last update or archive creation.

This is a neverending game. You store one properties, others want other
property to store. You finally ends something overcomplicated like an
xml structure.
And for accessing the files inside the archive, you dont need this infos at all.

But this fileformat is flexible enough, just attach the metainformation of files
as a file into the archive!
And your problem is solved, and it is future-proof.

So the file structure would be something like this in your case:
[header]
[filenames]
[1. file = metadata file]
[2. file]
[3. file]
[4. file]


However this fileformat is not final, Im open for suggestions;)
I didnt decided if the filenames section should go at the end, or
right after the header. And where to store the metadata, if any?
(start vs. end of file)

So
[header]
[filenames]
[1. file]
[2. file]
[3. file]

vs.
[header]
[1. file]
[2. file]
[3. file]
[filenames]

The same with metadata:
[header]
[filenames]
[1. file = metadata file]
[2. file]
[3. file]

vs.
[header]
[1. file]
[2. file]
[3. file = metadata file]
[filenames]


Need a bit of thinking here.

Laszlo

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Alexander Shulgin wrote:
> I fail to see how is this true for normal tar files (vs. data read
> from pipe).  Can you elaborate please?

Yepp, of course;)

Tar archive does not contain the byte positions of files inside the archive.
That means accessing a file inside the archive needs to read the whole
content before it, and determine where each file ends. (and you test
if you are at the desired file by reading its header).

It simply lacks of a TOC (table of content).

So accessing the last file in the archive reuires to reading the whole archive.
You can read it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(file_format)#Format_details

Simplification of tar archive:
[1. file header][1. file][2.file header][2. file][3. file header][3. file]

So how you read the third file from the archive? You read the file until the
[3. file header], your test is successfull (is it the right file?),
and you read the
file itself. You see? You have read the whole file, just accessing the
last item inside.

>> Zip support accessing each files in the archive, although
>> it compress the file by default.
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't zip -0 do the trick for your purpose? :)

It will do more or less, however there are three main problems with it:

1. you can only obtain the whole file from the archive. So you cant
  read a part of the file. So if you packed lets say a 700MB file to zip,
  you run out of memory on neo.
 At least this is the case on standard python zipfile module.

2. There is no random access feature, at
least not in standard python modules.
3. There are significant processor time wasted when accessing to a file
   (many computation required). Btw, it needs to benchmark on the neo, how
   worse is it.

Best regards,
  Laszlo

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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Patryk Benderz]

> You can read it here, I also included it (at the end of mail)
>  for reference:
> http://pastebin.com/m608acaeb
>From your reference:
"## General properties
- blocksize: 512 bytes
- only store filename (and directory if any) and content"
It might be convenient for future to store file properties like time of
modification. This way you could implement automatic update of tiles
that have been modified since last update or archive creation.

-- 
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Re: New archive file format (was: [omgps] collect feature requests)

[Laszlo KREKACS]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:22 AM, mqy wrote:
>
> XML is used as a database, elements can be easily added, modified, removed.
> xor tends to be overkilled as of map tile usage -- we don't need iterating,
> delete, and that much meta information. With my suggested design, we can
> even add newly downloaded tiles:
> insert record into meta database, and append tile content into "heap" file.


If I understand right the OSM tiles, they have the following directory
structure:
XX/YYY/ZZZ.png
10/558/357.png

All the information is obtained from this info (position, zoom level),
am I right?
XX: zoom level
YYY: position x? (or I dont know how to call it;)
ZZZ: position y?

So I think we should only pack the files into the KISS archive file.
For more in depth explanation see the end of this mail.

So something like this:
XX/YY1.kiss
XX/YY2.kiss
XX/YYY.kiss

Im willing to implement a simple kiss/unkiss program (just like tar/untar),
for easy archiving.
I will use python with no non-standard modules.

Best regards,
 Laszlo

ps:
Some statistical data:

Number of all tiles
# cd ~/Maps/OSM; find . -name *.png |wc -l
63818

Subdirs in zoom level dirs (YYY), and total number of files.
for i in *; do echo -n $i; echo -n " "; cd $i; ls -1|wc -l; cd ..; done
for f in *; do cd $f; for i in *; do cd $i; for k in *; do echo
"$i/$k" >> ~/Maps/OSM/$f.txt; done; cd ..; done; cd ..; done
cd ~/Maps/OSM
for i in *.txt; do echo -n "$i "; cat $i|wc -l ; done

2:   4 dirs, 16 files
3:   8 dirs, 64 files
4:   11 dirs,77 files
5:   17 dirs,83 files
6:   22 dirs,   265 files
7:   22 dirs,   217 files
8:   17 dirs,75 files
9:   26 dirs,   152 files
10:  39 dirs,   426 files
11:  71 dirs,  1484 files
12: 100 dirs,  1046 files
13:  78 dirs,  2902 files
14: 193 dirs, 23400 files
15:  86 dirs,  1941 files
16: 119 dirs,  4033 files
17: 277 dirs, 27637 files


Count the files in the subdirs(ZZZ):
for i in *; do echo -n $i; echo -n "f "; cd $i; for j in *; do cd $j;
echo -n "$i # $j @"; ls -1|wc -l; cd ..; done; cd ..; done

The number of files is in general 20-30, and the maximum was 180.

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