Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Brian]

I'm not even going to bother with the good netiquette of not top-posting
on this one so sorry if that offends you all.

Michael,

Whether you realize it or not you're giving open culture and this
community specifically a 'black eye' by posting such inflammatory
rhetoric. I, and probably most others on the list appreciate the hard
work that went into the Neo 1973, Neo FreeRunner, and the latest
iteration from Golden Delicious, the GTA04. I think you do as well, but
you have a funny way of showing it.

In a perfect world we would already have open standards that would
allow for the devices we envision. We don't live in a perfect world.
There are rules that need to be followed if we hope to change the
devices we're growing ever more accustomed to, and you're not helping
the process.

In point of fact public posts like yours will be used as ammunition
against what most of us on the list are working towards. I share your
sense of frustration in regards to hardware specs not being more open
but I won't resort to threats like you do. Instead I'll keep trying to
educate people about the dangers involved in walled gardens and closed
systems. At least that's a positive endeavour to engage in and it's
likely to eventually take hold once we have saner patent laws.

I think it's shameful for the open culture community on the whole to
have it's reputation sullied by your threatening comments. I can't tell
if you're a troll, an agent provocateur, or just a misguided soul who
really does mean what he says. In any case welcome to my 'plonk' file
pal as this will be the only response you'll ever get from me.

Hal 



On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 23:07:32 GMT
msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) wrote:

> "Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli"  wrote:
>   
> > That points nowhere.  
> 
> For you maybe, but not for me.
>   
> > I think you should instead try to go the legal way,   
> 
> I disagree.  Man-made law of every kind is my arch-enemy, and the
> purpose of my life is to break those laws.  Without law-breaking life
> becomes devoid of meaning.
>   
> > so you can't be attacked in court,  
> 
> That is irrelevant to me: I can never be "attacked in court" because
> I WILL NEVER SHOW UP TO COURT.
>   
> > because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something
> > illegal.  
> 
> No, it isn't easy.
>   
> > Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it.  
> 
> So what are they going to do?  Send me threats?  How?  By email?  I'll
> laugh at them, then hit delete.  By postal mail to my PO box?  There's
> a paper recycle bin conveniently located right next to it.  Look up
> one of the addresses I've used for receiving shipments, addresses that
> look like real physical ones?  Well, they only *look* like real
> physical addresses - in reality they are mailbox services.
> 
> So GOOD LUCK on trying to force me to show up in court...
>   
> > The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones.
> > it's not that complicated.  
> 
> It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong.  It is
> morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the
> good code and denying it to the public.
> 
> Harald Welte is the leader of the entire Osmocom family of projects.
> He is a former employee of Om-Inc and I have every reason to suspect
> that he is hoarding a personal copy of the good code, although he'll
> obviously never admit to it.  That makes Osmocom morally tainted,
> i.e., it is morally wrong to contribute in any way to any of the
> projects under that umbrella, particularly OsmocomBB.
> 
> Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with merely *using* what
> those projects have already produced: Leninist philosophy states that
> any and all means are acceptable, so we can use whatever tool or
> resource does the job.  But it *is* wrong to help them with
> contributions.  Therefore, if I ever feel like making enhancements to
> the OsmocomBB code base, I'll be sure to make them non-GPL-compatible
> so that my work benefits only the illegal community and not the legal
> one.
>   
> > so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points
> > nowhere( they won't give you the source, they could have given it
> > to you already if they wished but they didn't. so I guess they
> > don't want to and will never give you theses sources),  
> 
> I can still kidnap one of them and do the thermorectal procedure.  And
> the prospect of going to prison for kidnapping/assault/battery/
> whatever they call it doesn't scare me one bit - I am very confident
> of my ability to upload the seized code to some warez site *before*
> the cops arrive and get me.  Then I could spend the rest of my life in
> prison or perhaps die in a gunfire exchange with the police while
> resisting arrest, but the deed will be done: the code will be FREE -
> once it hits a public warez site, it'll get copied by all the other
> warez sites and the copyright/NDA police will never be able to take
> all of those copies down.
>   
> > do so

Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Michael Sokolov]

"Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli"  wrote:

> That points nowhere.

For you maybe, but not for me.

> I think you should instead try to go the legal way, 

I disagree.  Man-made law of every kind is my arch-enemy, and the
purpose of my life is to break those laws.  Without law-breaking life
becomes devoid of meaning.

> so you can't be attacked in court,

That is irrelevant to me: I can never be "attacked in court" because
I WILL NEVER SHOW UP TO COURT.

> because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something illegal.

No, it isn't easy.

> Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it.

So what are they going to do?  Send me threats?  How?  By email?  I'll
laugh at them, then hit delete.  By postal mail to my PO box?  There's
a paper recycle bin conveniently located right next to it.  Look up
one of the addresses I've used for receiving shipments, addresses that
look like real physical ones?  Well, they only *look* like real
physical addresses - in reality they are mailbox services.

So GOOD LUCK on trying to force me to show up in court...

> The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones.
> it's not that complicated.

It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong.  It is
morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the
good code and denying it to the public.

Harald Welte is the leader of the entire Osmocom family of projects.
He is a former employee of Om-Inc and I have every reason to suspect
that he is hoarding a personal copy of the good code, although he'll
obviously never admit to it.  That makes Osmocom morally tainted,
i.e., it is morally wrong to contribute in any way to any of the
projects under that umbrella, particularly OsmocomBB.

Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with merely *using* what
those projects have already produced: Leninist philosophy states that
any and all means are acceptable, so we can use whatever tool or
resource does the job.  But it *is* wrong to help them with
contributions.  Therefore, if I ever feel like making enhancements to
the OsmocomBB code base, I'll be sure to make them non-GPL-compatible
so that my work benefits only the illegal community and not the legal
one.

> so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points nowhere( they 
> won't give you the source, they could have given it to you already if they 
> wished but they didn't. so I guess they don't want to and will never give you 
> theses sources),

I can still kidnap one of them and do the thermorectal procedure.  And
the prospect of going to prison for kidnapping/assault/battery/
whatever they call it doesn't scare me one bit - I am very confident
of my ability to upload the seized code to some warez site *before*
the cops arrive and get me.  Then I could spend the rest of my life in
prison or perhaps die in a gunfire exchange with the police while
resisting arrest, but the deed will be done: the code will be FREE -
once it hits a public warez site, it'll get copied by all the other
warez sites and the copyright/NDA police will never be able to take
all of those copies down.

> do something productive and join us in making osmocom-bb 
> usable(by improving the nuttx port on calypso and then porting osmocom-bb on 
> top of it).
>
> so instead of waisting time on useless things, please join us.

NO, NEVER.  If I have NO other option, I would rather take a gun,
shoot one of those bastards who are denying me the good code, then
shoot myself before the cops arrive.  I will be dead, but my tormentor
will be dead too, so that makes it a fair exchange, a life for a life.

MS

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Re: [Om2008.9] screen locking application?

[Andrey Mitroshin]

Hello,
Is there some application for qtmoko to lock the device so nobody can get 
personal information from the device in the case device being lost or stolen?

On Sun, Aug 07, 2011 at 08:34:21PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día Saturday, July 30, 2011 a las 10:21:38AM +0200, Matthias Apitz 
> escribió:
> 
> > El día Friday, July 29, 2011 a las 09:50:29AM +0200, Lukas Märdian escribió:
> > 
> > > You can find it in my git-repo at github:
> > > https://github.com/slyon/today
> > 
> > Hi Lukas,
> > 
> > Thanks for the pointer; I fetched it but it depends of to much other
> > Python stuff.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I wrote a small app in Python which occupies the screen and has four
> buttons 1-2-3-4, big enough to be touch by the finger, and which must
> be marked exact in that order to exit the app (and give free the Om
> desktop again). I think this is strong enough so the FR will not act
> by itself while sitting in my pocket and is touch.
> 
> The only thing I don't know how to do in Python is to
> say that it should occupy the whole screen, i.e. also the small menu
> line on top of the screen. Any ideas? I can post the Python code if
> someone is interested in.
> 
> Thanks
> 
>   matthias
> -- 
> Matthias Apitz
> t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
> e  - w http://www.unixarea.de/
> 
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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli]

>However, my work on building a Totally Illegal Phone
That points nowhere.
I think you should instead try to go the legal way, 
so you can't be attacked in court,
because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something illegal.
Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it.

The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones.
it's not that complicated.
Now it runs on the calypso of the freerunner(and on other phones too).

so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points nowhere( they 
won't give you the source, they could have given it to you already if they 
wished but they didn't. so I guess they don't want to and will never give you 
theses sources), do something productive and join us in making osmocom-bb 
usable(by improving the nuttx port on calypso and then porting osmocom-bb on 
top of it).

so instead of waisting time on useless things, please join us.

Denis.

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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli]

>- what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a  
>major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. and how much less  
>hackable is the new gsm chip's fw?
Well, you can run osmocom-bb or nuttx on it.

for instance with nuttx:
root@om-gta02:~# /etc/init.d/dbus-1 stop
Stopping system message bus: dbus.
root@om-gta02:~# /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop
Stopping XServer
root@om-gta02:~# osmocon -i 13 -m romload -p /dev/ttySAC0 nuttx.bin 
[...]
open a new shell and type:
echo 0 >/sys/bus/platform/devices/gta02-pm-gsm.0/power_on
echo 1 >/sys/bus/platform/devices/gta02-pm-gsm.0/power_on
Then on the first shell you see:
Preparing block 63, block checksum is 0xec 
handle_write_block(): 1024 bytes (1024/1024)
handle_write_block(): Block 63 finished
Received block ack from phone
Preparing the last block, filling 616 bytes, block checksum is 0x75 
handle_write_block(): 1024 bytes (1024/1024)
handle_write_block(): Block 64 finished
Finished, sent 64 blocks in total
Received block ack from phone
Sending checksum: 0x42 
Checksum on phone side matches, let's branch to your code
Branching to 0x0082
Received branch ack, your code is running now!

NuttShell (NSH)

then with a python script you can interact with the shell:
root@om-gta02:~# ./loadwriter.py 
>help
which produces:
nsh> help
NSH command forms:
  [nice [-d >]]  [> |>> ] [&]
OR
  if 
  then
[sequence of ]
  else
[sequence of ]
  fi
Where  is one of:
  [  ]
  ?
  cat  [ [ ...]]
  cp  
  dd if= of= [bs=] [count=] 
[skip=]
  echo [ [...]]
  exec 
  exit
  free
  help
  kill - 
  losetup [-d ] | [[-o ] [-r]  ]
  ls [-lRs] 
  mb [=][ ]
  mkfifo 
  mh [=][ ]
  mw [=][ ]
  ps
  sh 
  sleep 
  test 
  usleep 
  xd  

Builtin Apps:

Alternatively you can run a loader, a hello world, a rss firmware, a 
layer1(with layer23 running on the samsung SOC) firmware etc

Denis.

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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Michael Sokolov]

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:

> IMHO that has nothing to do with freedom at all. Just personal enrichment.

Objection: it is *NOT* personal enrichment if I share.  If I were to
ever get a hold of the ware that I am after, I would NOT greedily
hoard it for myself like its current holders are doing, I would make
it available to everyone who wants it.

> And does *not* bring forward the community.

Depends on which community you are talking about.  If *your* community
has chosen to cripple itself by limiting to just those means which
don't offend the repressive legislative regimes, then indeed your
community won't benefit from IFS (Illegal Free Software) work.

However, my work on building a Totally Illegal Phone (whether I do it
by kidnapping an ex-Om-Inc employee and beating the TI deliverable out
of him, by taking the publicly leaked TSM30 source and modifying it in
a copyright-disregarding manner to backport it to Leonardo/GTA02, or
by taking OsmocomBB and adding illegal enhancements to it) will most
certainly benefit a DIFFERENT community: a community of brave and
determined revolutionaries who are officially At War with all
law-making regimes and who would like to use the enemy's Public Land
Mobile Networks infrastructure in our asymmetric warfare against them.

MS

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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 04.03.2012 um 21:14 schrieb Michael Sokolov:

> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:
> 
>> Could it be possible that those "greedy bastards" don't even exist except
>> in your wishful thinking?
> 
> I don't buy that - I don't buy the fairy-tale that each and every
> former employee of Om-Inc who had NDA'd access to The Treasure has

> refrained from sneaking a personal copy home with him.  That is a
> preposterous claim.  There most certainly do exist former Om-Inc
> employees who are sitting on personal copies of the deliverable which
> that company had received from TI.
> 
> I know of at least two former Om-Inc employees who have demonstrated
> detailed knowledge of what that deliverable contained - I take that as
> evidence that they are the ones most likely to be holding on to
> personal copies.  Not 100% proof, but enough evidence to hire some
> professionals to do a kidnapping operation as soon as I can gather up
> the funds to do that.  And if the people whom I suspect to be holding
> personal copies of the TI->Om deliverables have deleted those personal
> copies, well, too bad for them, as the hot soldering iron won't get
> taken out of their rectums until a copy of the ware is in my hands.
> 
> So, to those reading this who are holding those personal copies: just
> upload a copy anonymously to some warez site, announce it on this list
> using an untraceable anonymous email account, and then you will no
> longer need to worry about getting kidnapped and receiving
> thermorectal treatment.

Hm. In our legislation this is considered a crime "Erpressung" (extortion).
And for good reasons.

> 
>> This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that,
>> I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these
>> modules. So it is not a realistic option.
> 
> The obvious solution is to use two separate unconnected identities for
> the NDA-signing and NDA-breaking activities.

No, that is not a solution. That is also a crime "Betrug" (fraud)...

And you honestly ask to commit crimes in the name of Free and Open Source?

IMHO that has nothing to do with freedom at all. Just personal enrichment.
And does *not* bring forward the community.
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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Michael Sokolov]

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:

> Could it be possible that those "greedy bastards" don't even exist except
> in your wishful thinking?

I don't buy that - I don't buy the fairy-tale that each and every
former employee of Om-Inc who had NDA'd access to The Treasure has
refrained from sneaking a personal copy home with him.  That is a
preposterous claim.  There most certainly do exist former Om-Inc
employees who are sitting on personal copies of the deliverable which
that company had received from TI.

I know of at least two former Om-Inc employees who have demonstrated
detailed knowledge of what that deliverable contained - I take that as
evidence that they are the ones most likely to be holding on to
personal copies.  Not 100% proof, but enough evidence to hire some
professionals to do a kidnapping operation as soon as I can gather up
the funds to do that.  And if the people whom I suspect to be holding
personal copies of the TI->Om deliverables have deleted those personal
copies, well, too bad for them, as the hot soldering iron won't get
taken out of their rectums until a copy of the ware is in my hands.

So, to those reading this who are holding those personal copies: just
upload a copy anonymously to some warez site, announce it on this list
using an untraceable anonymous email account, and then you will no
longer need to worry about getting kidnapped and receiving
thermorectal treatment.

> This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that,
> I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these
> modules. So it is not a realistic option.

The obvious solution is to use two separate unconnected identities for
the NDA-signing and NDA-breaking activities.

MS

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Re: [Gta04-owner] what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 04.03.2012 um 14:55 schrieb Benjamin Deering:

> 
> My gta02 innards will probably be reassigned to monitoring my kegerator.  
> Since it has i2c and wifi, I should be able to connect load sensors, a 
> thermometer, and a sensor to know when the compressor is running.  It could 
> then send the information over wifi to www.jeepingben.net so I can monitor 
> energy efficiency, beer levels, and beer temperature from anywhere.

++ :)

> On 03/04/2012 07:59 AM, Bob Ham wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 22:44 +0100, arne anka wrote:
>> 
>>> so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts?  
>>> just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a  
>>> meaningful solution?
>> My intention is to use the remaining phone innards to experiment with
>> and help develop, a 3D printable case.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/gta04-owner
> 
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Nikolaus

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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 04.03.2012 um 00:59 schrieb Michael Sokolov:

> "arne anka"  wrote:
> 
>> but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that  
>> is :-), that's certainly solution.
> 
> As I understand it, he already does that.

Yes, we have some GTA02 boards w/o display...

> 
>> - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a  
>> major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable.
> 
> Certain individuals in the Om community are holding personal copies of
> that firmware in "semi-source" form, or more precisely, in the form of
> object modules with full symbolic information (names of functions,
> global variables, etc) - not quite the same as full source, but pretty
> close in terms of hackability.  Unfortunately the greedy bastards are
> refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the
> use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally.  If anyone is willing to

Could it be possible that those "greedy bastards" don't even exist except
in your wishful thinking?

> perform such an operation for the benefit of the community, I can
> supply the names of the suspects and my best available information as
> to their physical whereabouts.
> 
> Alternatively, there exists the TSM30 firmware source: it's a
> different Calypso phone, and that code is full source and readily
> available from Cryptome.org and other sites.  Unfortunately the TSM30
> hardware has been very heavily modified from the Leonardo* baseline
> (whereas the GSM part of GTA02 is almost identical with Leonardo),
> hence backporting the TSM30 source to run on a Leonardo-style Calypso
> subsystem like GTA02 would take a lot more work than what we could do
> if we had the "real" GTA02 version of the "semi-source".  But the
> backport of the TSM30 to Leonardo/GTA02 does not seem impossible, just
> really difficult, and I am hoping to find the time some day to tackle
> that project - in my view, it is an ethically superior approach than
> OsmocomBB.
> 
> [*] Leonardo is TI's reference design for the Calypso/Iota/Rita
>chipset; liberated Leonardo board schematics and chip docs for all
>components are on my public FTP site.
> 
> There is also a possibility that someone in the People's Republic of
> China may have a copy of the same "semi-source" deliverable which FIC
> got from TI (that exact same deliverable or a very very similar one
> must have been given to *all* makers of Calypso-based feature phones),
> but who would be more open to sharing than the Om bastards.  Any
> comrades in the PRC reading this, you know whom to email.
> 
>> and how much less  
>> hackable is the new gsm chip's fw?
> 
> We shall only know if Nikolaus were to grow the b*lls to burn or shred
> his German passport, apply for citizenship in the Principality of
> Sealand, the Republic of New Poseidia or some other (micro)nation in
> which NDAs have no legal validity and in which all intellectual
> creations of every kind are automatically and unconditionally in the
> public domain, and publicly share all materials which he has received
> from the maker of whatever GSM/UMTS module he has used in the GTA04.
> 
> If and when Nikolaus does the above, I shall gladly and immediately
> buy a GTA04 - but not till then.

This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that,
I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these
modules. So it is not a realistic option.

And you would be astonished how tiny information we really have. Almost
everything we know has been transcribed into valuable information and
is included in the user's manual. This are AT commands and the pin layout.

By going to the official product page you can also find out that there
is a QC MDM6600 inside (same as iPhone 4). But that does not mean
that we have received any information about that chip or its firmware...
We are at least on the output of the third level information filter from QC to 
us.

It is in this respect like buying a UMTS-USB stick in a blister pack where
you don't get a service manual included.

Finally you will find by research that there are some projects to write
alternate firmware for MDM6600 devices. But that is all, that I know that
those projects exist (I think one was mentioned recently on the GTA04
list [1]).

Nikolaus

[1]: http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2011-December/001071.html


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Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 03.03.2012 um 14:07 schrieb Gerald A:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
> 
> Am 01.03.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul:
> 
> >> So what to use? Nothing to use...
> >
> > We should look for what comes after phones and tablets.
> > What's next?
> 
> Next generation phones and tablets :)
> 
> As a consumer, it's a bit hard to distinguish between one generation and the 
> next, though. In the past, it was easier -- upgrades from LCD to mono 
> screens, from mono screens to color, from telephone keypads to qwerty.
> It's harder lately to distinguish, at a quick glance, a "retina" display from 
> a regular one.
> 
> It is difficult to develop something totally new.
> (My standard methapher: each revolution looks
> like evolution if you have a sufficiently distant point
> of view).
> 
> I agree to a certain degree -- from a hardware point of view, at least.
> 
> But it's pretty clear that the iPhone and iPad were dramatic shifts for 
> smartphones and tablets.
> The iPhone brought new energy and enthusiasm to the smartphone market. There 
> were a few big players already in this market, but Apple managed to change 
> the direction of the market.

I think they mainly could because they were neither a network operator nor a 
classical phone manufacturer. So they could decide to make standard Web 
browsing (instead of MMS "services") the default.

> The iPad brought tablets, which had languished for years, from being ignored 
> to something that many people knew something about.

And, they have very valuable content to distribute. That makes IMHO the main 
difference. Before, a smartphone was a device to communicate and have some 
preinstalled games plus "PIM" applications to sync with your desktop.

Now it became the access device to a plethora of well organized content. And 
the Apps ecosystem is nothing else than a publisher business model (incl. 
selection and quality control). This was IMHO the most dramatic change.

> 
> Now, the hardware they used wasn't the greatest in each case -- it had and 
> has lots of limits. But they had amazing software, and a vision for the 
> "customer" of their device.
> They didn't end up inventing a "new" device, per se, but they did end up 
> re-inventing it. To consumers, they are new devices, because they never saw 
> the clunky windows tablets or older smartphones. 

Consumers mostly see the content (that is always well packed by Apple/Disney), 
not the device.

> 
> For phones and tablets it means they will increase in
> screen resolution, increase in processing power and
> networking speed, increase in battery life, increase how
> easily they can be used.
> The last one is the most interesting since it includes
> both hardware and software.
> 
> One thing is clear: Until a device is commercially successful, it has no 
> chance to survive in the arms race that is commercial phone development. 
> Things change too fast and cost too much to bring out a new rev every X 
> months.
> Every hardware piece is a compromise, and I've been a close watcher on the 
> sidelines when FIC/OM launched their phones. It's harder with a phone, 
> because since almost everyone has one, everyone will have an idea about one.
> 
> So, where does that leave us? I think it's simple -- we have to compete, at 
> first, mostly in software. I held out lots of hope for this with the Neo and 
> the Freerunner, but they had basic issues that made them a bit difficult to 
> deal with.

I think QtMoko and now SHR are on a good path. The OPAM3 used in the GTA04 is a 
much better supported platform to concentrate GUI development on the useability 
aspects.
 
> I do think there are markets that are out there that are unserved and 
> underserved, where something with good software could flourish.
> 
> I'm still not convinced your business model is the best approach. While it 
> involves the least risk for all concerned, it feels to me like it's not 
> working well. I gave you some thoughts earlier, and you had good points why 
> your point of view was better. But, your current rallying point is to get to 
> 40% of your goal, and that means that 60% remains. Don't get me wrong, I do 
> hope your device gets built, and I intend to order when budget allows me ... 
> but without some major donation, I'm not sure your timeline is feasible.

I think it is still feasible. The only thing we must improve is the positive 
feedback look.
The more GTA04 (from stock) devices are out there and the more users of the 
GTA04
are happy (and report that), the more the undecided ones can decide.

Several factors are not yet positive enough, but we are working on it:
* production yield for the "from stock" devices is being increased
* we are working on a case kit so that a 3D printed case from Shapeways becomes 
a 100% replacement to disassemble a GTA01/02
* we work to preinstall QtMoko in NAND flash so that the first power-on gives a 
better impression and has less problems forma

Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Arne,

Am 03.03.2012 um 22:44 schrieb arne anka:

> what's stopping me from subscribing for the GTA04 is simply the question, 
> what to do with the innards of my disembowled GTA02.
> although the GTA02 as well as a new GTA04 would be litle more than a toy 
> anyway, i shrink back from the idea to produce electronic waste just for fun.
> 
> money isn't really an issue here, but i don't want to spend 750 euros for a 
> complete new GTA04 i don't really have a practical use for.
> (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help 
> someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price)
> 
> so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? 
> just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a 
> meaningful solution?

I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI 
device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C 
interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector.

So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to 
educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo 
frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little 
slow).

Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished 
(which is not very far away).

> 
>> Therefore it is important to spread of the platform.
>> Having 1 month left over for subscribing to the
>> (extended) group tour is a good point to draw an
>> intermediate view.
>> 
>> This morning we now have 34% which is one third of the
>> required number of units (for the given price). This is a
>> good increment from the 23% or so we did have right
>> before FOSDEM when we decided to extend the subscription
>> time frame.
>> 
>> So the next goal is to crack the 40%!
>> 
>> One more thing:
>> 
>> some 5% rebate seats are still available since
>> some generous subscribers did choose no early
>> bird rebate.
>> 
>> BR,
>> Nikolaus
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04-Custom: EAGLE schematics and board file blueprint for developing expansion/adapter boards

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 03.03.2012 um 11:00 schrieb Lionel Broche:

> Coming back to the original message, is it possible for an averaged-skilled 
> person to carry out the customisation of the GTA04 board to change the 
> connector? 

> Also, would it be feasible to make a GTA04 module that could be connected to 
> external screens while powered, so that you could switch from tablet to 
> phone? I just ask out of curiosity, but it would be fun to connect your phone 
> to a large display in your car for easier sat nav, then take it back as a 
> phone.


Well,
retrofitting the display connector is only one part. This needs quite 
sophisticated equipment.
I was not able to do it myself even under a microscope (0.3 mm pin distance!).

The second aspect is that the interface is not designed to be capable of 
automatically switching
displays.

The GTA04-Custom board has some components removed that either need space or are
electronically in the way and to make the bottom side really flat. This are 
usually:

display connector, touch screen controller, backlight converter
battery spring contacts, speaker pogo pins, usb-otg socket, RS232 socket, 
backup battery/supercap,
pushbuttons, LEDs, microphone, headset jack, IrDA.

And, we use a variant without GPS, UMTS, and the FM-TRX in a PDA style device.

This of course makes the board cheaper than a fully populated GTA04 board
(as replacement for the GTA01/02 or an OpenPhoenux).

Therefore you should see them as two different variants (with very much similar 
software,
e.g. QtMoko runs on the PDA version with 3.5 inch screen after disabling the 
GSM modem
functions).

To summarize: yes, you can build a PDA around the GTA04-custom board but it is
not exchangeable on the fly.

Nikolaus
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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04-Custom: EAGLE schematics and board file blueprint for developing expansion/adapter boards

[Lionel Broche]

true, that would be easier. But it also need more electronics.

On 3 March 2012 19:25, Al Johnson  wrote:

> On Saturday 03 March 2012 10:00:27 Lionel Broche wrote:
> > Coming back to the original message, is it possible for an
> averaged-skilled
> > person to carry out the customisation of the GTA04 board to change the
> > connector?
> > Also, would it be feasible to make a GTA04 module that could be connected
> > to external screens while powered, so that you could switch from tablet
> to
> > phone? I just ask out of curiosity, but it would be fun to connect your
> > phone to a large display in your car for easier sat nav, then take it
> back
> > as a phone.
>
> Why not use a DisplayLink USB display like the touchscreens at [1]? You
> might
> even find a daylight readable one for the car. Not sure if GTA04 can charge
> while in host mode though - the docs suggest not but don't say explicitly.
>
> [1] https://newit.co.uk/shop/products.php?cat=16
>
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Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Lionel Broche]

vibration is a pretty good idea though, have you tried it arne?

On 3 March 2012 21:20, arne anka  wrote:

> sounds is a no-go.
> the only sound i tolerate is the one coming out of the earpiece/headset
> when making/recieving a call or listening to music.
>
>
>  --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Lionel Broche  wrote:
>>
>>  Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an
>>> alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to
>>> trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...)
>>>
>>
>> Ah so you never tried fatfingershell :)
>>
>> Rafa
>>
>> PS. BTW, it uses four different sounds, so every key sounds different
>> than its neighbors. And you have (if you want) a smooth vibration
>> feedback as well.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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>
>
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-- 
Dr Lionel Broche
Aberdeen Biomedical Imaging Centre
University of Aberdeen
tel : +44 1224 553 206
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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[arne anka]

(but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help  
someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated  
price)



myself and others in this list have made the same offer...


that's very good to know.
i didn't follow the development of sales too close (though close enough to  
finally convince me, i may want a GTA04, too ;-)


- how many are there an how much additional GTA04 could we buy/fund in  
adavnce between us (if nobody takes up the offer)?
- how well known is that to prospective buyers of limited funds? such an  
offer, however generous it may be, is of little use if potential users are  
not aware of it - i for one did not know about it, except the remark about  
5% rebates still being available since several early subscribers did not  
claim it.


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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Neil Jerram]

msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) writes:

> close in terms of hackability.  Unfortunately the greedy bastards are
> refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the
> use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally.  If anyone is willing to

I'm sorry, but that is an intolerable thing to write.  I hope you will
take it back and apologise for it.

   Neil

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Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?

[Fernando Martins]

On 03/03/2012 10:44 PM, arne anka wrote:
(but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will 
help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the 
rebated price)



myself and others in this list have made the same offer...

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