Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 10:07 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are able to mass produce the new cases ? No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. Ah! I didn't realise the GTA02 and GTA01 cases were compatible. Just to be 100% sure about this, could you possibly answer explicitly: will the GTA04 board fit in a Neo 1973 (GTA01) case, with the antenna, display, speaker, battery, etc, all working? Bob -- Bob Ham r...@bash.sh for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko.org servers
Hi there, The git.openmoko.org host often goes down for long periods and it's becoming a problem, not to mention annoying. I've been labouring under the impression that the openmoko.org domain was taken over by the community. However, having done some dns and whois queries, it appears that the domain and all of the servers within it are still under the control of FIC. In particular, these hosts: 88.198.93.219shakti.openmoko.org CNAME downloads.openmoko.org 88.198.93.221 devi.openmoko.org CNAMEwww.openmoko.org CNAME wiki.openmoko.org 88.198.124.203 sita.openmoko.org CNAME lists.openmoko.org CNAME planet.openmoko.org 88.198.148.21 docs.openmoko.org CNAMEsvn.openmoko.org 88.198.160.201 git.openmoko.org According to the WHOIS database, the IP ranges that cover theses hosts are all assigned to FIC and each have their admin and technical contact recorded as Sean Moss-Pultz. This situation strikes me as very precarious. FIC has essentially abandoned the openmoko phone hardware/software project. Some of the hosts are unreliable. Meanwhile, they store three things of great importance: 1. Vital technical information about the GTA01 and GTA02 phones. 2. Sources for working openmoko software, including kernel trees. 3. A complete history for essentially the whole endeavour, in the form of mailing list archives (including this list). I think this information should be moved away from FIC-hosted servers. It should be firstly archived and secondly more reliable access needs to be provided for the git and svn servers. I wonder, Sean, whether you are able to provide the raw data stored on these hosts so that the services might be replicated or moved elsewhere? And even whether the openmoko.org domain could be relinquished to the community? There are a number of organisations that spring to mind as able to offer hosting for this kind of effort: the Open Source Lab at Oregon State University¹, The Linux Foundation², The Internet Archive³, ibiblio⁴ (what used to be UNC's SunSITE), etc. I'm curious to know what others in the community think about this? Regards, Bob ¹ http://osuosl.org/about-osuosl ² http://www.linuxfoundation.org/labs ³ http://archive.org/about/about.php ⁴ http://www.ibiblio.org/about/ -- Bob Ham r...@bash.sh for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko.org servers
On Sun, 2012-03-25 at 13:40 +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: servers are not hosted or owned by FIC WHOIS: Domain ID:D129289086-LROR Domain Name:OPENMOKO.ORG The IP addresses used by the hosts I listed are all registered to FIC: rah@myrtle:~$ host 88.198.160.201 201.160.198.88.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer git.openmoko.org. rah@myrtle:~$ whois 88.198.160.201 ... inetnum:88.198.160.200 - 88.198.160.207 netname:FIRST-INTERNATIONAL-COMPUTER-INC descr: First International Computer, Inc. country:DE admin-c:SM8835-RIPE tech-c: SM8835-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: HOS-GUN mnt-lower: HOS-GUN mnt-routes: HOS-GUN source: RIPE # Filtered person: Sean Moss-Pultz address:First International Computer, Inc. address:300, Yang Guang Street address:114 Taipei address:TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA e-mail: lafo...@openmoko.org phone: +49 3024033902 fax-no: +49 3024033904 mnt-by: HOS-GUN nic-hdl:SM8835-RIPE source: RIPE # Filtered admins are still Roh and Gismo afaik ownership (aka payment) went to Harald Welte (see Name Server above) I'm a little confused. Perhaps I'm being obtuse here but why haven't any of these people responded to my original email? -- Bob Ham r...@bash.sh Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: About infra maintenance [was: Re: openmoko.org servers]
On Sun, 2012-03-25 at 17:05 +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Anyway, best advice when any problems with OM infra hit: * join #openmoko (or #openmoko-cdevel) on freenode.net, * say hello and describe the issue, ask what can be / has been done and whom to ping (typical post: Hi! wiki.openmoko.org down for anybody else?) * WAIT until somebody answers - this may be minutes to several hours. It's ironic that you mention #openmoko-cdevel. Some months ago I asked in #openmoko-cdevel when git.openmoko.org was down. Nobody responded at all, let alone after some hours. I also asked in #openmoko-cdevel prior to sending my email a couple of days ago. Nobody knew who was maintaining the openmoko servers. The fact that the IP addresses were still registered with FIC was pointed out and it was agreed that this was a problem. Then I sent my email to this list. If the best advice for when there are problems with openmoko.org hosts, is to bring the subject in #openmoko-cdevel then we really are in trouble :-) Could you possibly provide email addresses for roh and whoever else is responsible for the openmoko.org servers so that everyone knows who to contact? Thanks, Bob -- Bob Ham r...@bash.sh Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko servers
Mr Moss-Pultz, The server docs.openmoko.org (aka svn.openmoko.org) has been down for some time. Word around the camp fire has it that it is down because the hosting company has blocked access to the machine; that they require a signature from yourself in order to transfer control to the administrator; and that this signature has not been received. Could I ask: is there a particular reason that this signature has not been provided? Are you unwilling to relinquish control? The situation needs to be resolved so that we can get access to the data hosted on the server, and preferably as soon as possible. Kind regards, Bob Ham -- Bob Ham r...@bash.sh Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 28/04/2012 10:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? * WiFi chip with free firmware * Baseband processor with free firmware * Hardware keyboard * Bigger screen * Multitouch for pinch zooming What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? Everything on Benjamin Deering's list, plus: * A calendar app that displays contact's birthdays (with alarm or some other notification beforehand) and synchronises with a calendar stored on my server * A contact app that syncronises with a contact database stored on my server * An email client that allows easy access to a large number of IMAP folders * Easy mesh networking, possibly using B.A.T.M.A.N. Bear in mind that I don't have a Freerunner or a Phoenux so I don't know whether any of these items exist already. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
On Tue, 2012-05-01 at 18:06 +0200, Dr.H.NikolausS wrote: we have developed a prototype for a 80 button QWERTY keyboard PCB that could eventually be connected/integrated into the GTA04 This is some good work and the PCB looks like it will be useful. However, I think it may be premature to start designing keyboard circuits. I think the really important issue in developing a hardware keyboard is in the physical design; the arrangement of keys, how the shape of keys effects ease of typing, how the keyboard is integrated into the case, etc. In order to develop case designs that include a keyboard, we must first have designs for cases without a keyboard :-) At present, we do not have this. As I understand it, Slyon's cases do not fit together properly and so we cannot build a complete GTA04 case from them yet (has this changed?) There are also no case component kits available. I think it would be more advantageous to spend time dealing with these basic problems. That way, we will have a solid base from which to build more advanced designs, including designs that incorporate a keyboard. Also, I believe we should not limit ourselves to the existing case shape. I will say more about that in a separate email to the GTA04 list. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 11:02 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I think the really important issue in developing a hardware keyboard is in the physical design; the arrangement of keys, how the shape of keys The arrangement of keys is more or less standardized, so there isn't much room for experimentation. I think there's quite a lot of variation in modern phone keyboards. For example, some Blackberry phones have two alphanumeric characters per key, some phones have no number keys, some have an arrow key block and some don't, etc. Even within the confines of a basic qwerty keyboard, there seem to be many variations in layout; whether the rows are offset or aligned in a grid, whether there is a multi-row Enter key, the size of the space bar, etc. effects ease of typing, how the keyboard is integrated into the case, etc. In order to develop case designs that include a keyboard, we must Yes, shape effects ease of typing. But also do the mechanical properties of the electric contacts. I.e. what their contact force is. You can only test that with having the electronics ready (at least in a prototype status). That's a fair point. first have designs for cases without a keyboard :-) Well, but what do you do if you design a keyboard where the mechanical switches are not available? Part of the experiment was to test how well these Panasonic things work, how easily they can be soldered, what they impose as the minimum distance between buttons. I see. At present, we do not have this. As I understand it, Slyon's cases do not fit together properly and so we cannot build a complete GTA04 case from them yet (has this changed?) There are also no case component kits available. The key missing part is the UMTS pentaband antenna. There are antenna modules out there (e.g. Antenova) but those are too big. It might be worth designing a slightly different case in order to accommodate a usable antenna module. There is a danger of allowing one's self to be limited by the existing design. I would say change the case design if it will allow production of complete phones. for (;;) { ++pancakes; } You could do pancakes+=2; :) True. But why would I want to skip a pancake? ;-) -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Sun, 2012-05-06 at 23:23 +0200, Harald Welte wrote: From my point of view, in order to proceed, what would need to be done is: 2) finding somebody with the required skills, dedication and trust by all involved entities/people to actually maintain/upgrade those systems for the time to come. 3) ensure that Openmoko, Inc. still has an adequate amount of last resort control over what happens there, as it (after all) still is their trademark. So if somebody sues them over content on those sites, they need to be able to take action by removing such content without having to go to anyone else. 4) migrate the VMs or at least the content to new, more reliable (and also less expensive) rented server hardware. I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few. They're open to the idea of migrating openmoko.org services and/or server VMs to their infrastructure. I believe this would be the most sustainable and practical solution. Bob Ham ¹ http://osuosl.org/about-osuosl -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [dfu-util] who use it for flashing FR?
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 14:58 +0200, Patryk Benderz wrote: how many of you are still using dfu-util for flashing your FR's internal memory? I don't have a Freerunner, I have a 1973 and I use dfu-util to flash its internal memory. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 00:08 +0100, Bob Ham wrote: I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few. They're open to the idea of migrating openmoko.org services and/or server VMs to their infrastructure. I believe this would be the most sustainable and practical solution. Harald, Maximilian and Joachim, as the present administrators what do you think about this idea? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 20:33 +0200, Harald Welte wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 07:20:36PM +0100, Bob Ham wrote: On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 00:08 +0100, Bob Ham wrote: I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few. Harald, Maximilian and Joachim, as the present administrators what do you think about this idea? I think it's an excellent idea. This seems like a good idea, given that there are people who are already taking care of hosting other projects and thus already do quite a bit of sysadmin. So just to be clear on this: From my point of view the problem is not to pay for some hosting/traffic every month. If anything else fails, I'd even pay that out of my own pocket. The main issue is to have somebody who will actually take care of updating the debian packages, run backups, make sure things run smoothly and do a dist-upgrade every couple of years. Indeed, that is the main issue. The way I see it, freeing the community from the burden of administering infrastructure can only be a good thing. But in the end, it is Sean that you have to convince, not me ;) Sean, what do you think? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: unofficial mirror for {git, lists, wiki}.openmoko.org
On Wed, 2012-05-16 at 16:40 +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: I created an unofficial mirror for git.openmoko.org, wiki.openmoko.org and lists.openmoko.org: Nice one :-) -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Delivery of the GTA04
On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 09:26 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: * I think it will need 1-2 weeks until we finally know and they have production ramped up Do we know whether the GTA04 group tour units have production ramped up? We could do with them here in the UK right now.. http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/public-sector/3357807/met-police-uses-quick-mobile-data-extraction-system-against-suspects/ :-) -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New PowerVR SGX reverse engineering project
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:43:25 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 16.06.2012 um 12:06 schrieb Simon Busch: The mailinglist is closed already cause of a possible lawsuit. Let me quote Bob Ham: No need to worry. Lawsuits are always possible, independently of what you do. Even if you do nothing :) Indeed :-) The GNU lawyers have apparently stated that this PowerVR reverse engineering project should not be hosted by the GNU project (on savannah.nongnu.org) as there is a risk of the GNU project being the subject of a lawsuit. Yay for lawyers! I feel I should clarify this. I was told that the lawyers said it would be not a good idea if the project was hosted by GNU and they said the risk was small but that it would be better to avoid it entirely. It's my inference that the risk they're talking about is of a lawsuit (although I can't imagine what else they would mean). As far as I know there is no specific threat at present. I wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea :-) -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] New Phoronix article on Gta04
On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 08:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 04.07.2012 um 05:06 schrieb Alishams Hassam: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTEzMjI If you There is a typical misunderstanding with the specs. I never did see a $100 iPhone (even on eBay and then it is broken)... This also forgets that I wouldn't worry too much about Phoronix. Their reporting is always sub-par. And moveover, people know their reporting is sub-par. They seem to be like a tabloid newspaper: they're not so concerned about the accuracy of their reporting so long as you read the site. They'll quite happily publish deliberately inflammatory articles to boost their readership. I used to have a link to Phoronix on the toolbar of my browser but I removed it just recently because I got tired of all the nonsense they write. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] New Phoronix article on Gta04
On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 00:01 -0700, Alishams Hassam wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: I wouldn't worry too much about Phoronix. Their reporting is always sub-par. And moveover, people know their reporting is sub-par. They seem to be like a tabloid newspaper: they're not so concerned about the accuracy of their reporting so long as you read the site. They'll quite happily publish deliberately inflammatory articles to boost their readership. I agree that certainly there articles that are shit. However they also have many good articles and many examples of exemplary reporting. I must say I'm quite surprised by this. I would love to ask for examples of what you consider to be an examplary article on the site. However, I think it's probably best if we just agree to disagree :-) In this case, I would say the article is sub-par, however it is just as much our fault as Phoronix's. Again I'm going to have to disagree; I think it's all Phoronix's fault :-) My goal with collecting these 'good reasons' is that when future articles are published, the writer won't have to dig through the mailing lists and bug developers for good points. You mean they won't have to.. do their job? :-) If Phoronix publishes another article bashing the GTA04 after we have made our case easy to represent, I will agree with your conclusion ;) I'll hold you to you to that :-) But I wouldn't worry about if. Given Phoronix's usual modus operandi, you can rest assured that a string of negative, similarly sub-par articles will now ensue. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New PowerVR SGX reverse engineering project
On Sat, 2012-06-16 at 12:43 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 16.06.2012 um 12:06 schrieb Simon Busch: The mailinglist is closed already cause of a possible lawsuit. There will be another one soon on a different gnu host, Finally, we have a mailing list: http://gnu.org.ve/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/powervr-devel All are welcome but right now, the effort particularly needs people with low level graphics experience to help with the reverse engineering. If anyone here has such experience and is willing to help, I would encourage you to join the list and make yourself known. Bob -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openphoenux review on mobilejournal.net
On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 20:50 +0100, francesco.dev...@mailoo.org wrote: What makes me angry it's that the authors do not get enough information nor they get a direct contact with the developers if they not are owners of a GTA0X. The result is a bad article, they do not even know what they're talking about, and they give to the people a bad idea of the GTA04. From my perspective, I don't know why anyone would assume that people who write articles *ever* know what they're talking about. Most articles are nonsense, written by people who earn a living producing words and read by people who will never become aware of the absurdity of what they read. Such is the nature of mass media; a vicious circle of cultural degradation. Welcome to the our world :-) Of course, we don't have to pay attention to those who spout nonsense.. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Supplies of new batteries (was: Re: is my GTA02 getting old?)
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:52:56 +0100, Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org wrote: is a compatible battery (with a coulomb counter) available? I second this question. It will become increasingly important as the years go on. I notice there is a plethora of different batteries on eBay for every type of laptop imaginable, seemingly all unbranded and coming from unknown Chinese factories. I wonder how difficult it would be to find a manufacturer who will produce new batteries for the GTA0{1,2,4}. Mr Pulster, Mr Schaller have either of you looked into this by any chance? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ubuntu / Firefox OS for Openmoko?
On Fri, 2013-01-11 at 20:43 +0100, Christoph Pulster wrote: The hardware GTA04 is based on one person (Nikolaus), the software QtMoko is based on one person (Radek). My daily cudos for both of them. But I am afraid we really need a broader basis of manpower. I think it's unfair to mention only Nikolaus and Radek. There are many people working to push the GTA04 forward: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=history;f=fsodeviced/conf/GTA04;hb=HEAD http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=meta-smartphone.git;a=history;f=meta-openmoko/conf/machine/om-gta04.conf;hb=HEAD https://github.com/neilbrown/linux/commits/gta04/mainline/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3gta04.c I don't think we necessarily need any more manpower. To say that is to say: I want people to do things for me. Indeed, we all want 1000 programmers to start working on FSO and QtMoko so that our phones become sweet bastions of freedom and coolness. Alas, there is only us. It is worth remembering that a factor in attracting programmers is the ratio between (1) how much effort we spend complaining about how few programmers the are and trying to attract more, and (2) how much effort we spend creating useful systems with a small number of programmers. Paradoxically, a focus on the latter is much more likely to attract new contributors. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:16:36 GMT, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Spacefalcon) wrote: It is also absolutely clear that distribution of this sources or firmware will be illegal, If you have chosen to live and accept citizenship in a country where such things are illegal, I feel sorry for you. If you like, I can give you a free immigrant/refugee visa to come to my country that has no such repressive laws. Which country is that? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:02:03 GMT, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Spacefalcon) wrote: Alex Samorukov m...@os2.kiev.ua wrote: Which country is that? dprk ? :) Yes, I love it. You moved from Canada to North Korea? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 16:16 +, Michael Spacefalcon wrote: If you like, I can give you a free immigrant/refugee visa to come to my country On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 20:24 +, Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: You moved from Canada to North Korea? I don't live anywhere at all Forgive me, I was confused when you wrote my country. I presumed you meant the country where you lived. Which country were you referring to when you said my country? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM Firmware+Wiki
On 2013-04-25 01:38, Paul Wise wrote: I've offered to help with sysadmin but he hasn't had time to give me access to the servers. I've contacted him multiple times on IRC and email last year and this year but I never get a response. This is a big problem :-/ -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 20:22 +0200, Paul Wise wrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Ben Wong wrote: I wonder if OpenPhoenix has an opportunity now, with all those frustrated would-be buyers out there. Are the Ubuntu Edge specs (or something close) achievable by OpenPhoenix? No. I think a better question is whether OpenPhoenix can achieve production of *any* phone? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:10 +0200, Paul Wise wrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Bob Ham wrote: No. I think a better question is whether OpenPhoenix can achieve production of *any* phone? Not currently in stock, but as I understand it, GTA04 exists and is a phone. The GTA04 is a motherboard, not a phone. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:19 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: Well, there are (or were) complete phones based on GTA04 available to buy from Golden Delicious, so yes, OpenPhoenux has already achieved production of any phone. The phones consisted of GTA04 motherboards inside second-hand GTA01/02 cases. These cases were produced by Openmoko, not OpenPhoenix. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:44 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: The phones consisted of GTA04 motherboards inside second-hand GTA01/02 cases. These cases were produced by Openmoko, not OpenPhoenix. Producing new cases is a matter of enough money, not of capabilities... The OpenPhoenix community doesn't have enough money so the answer to the original question of whether it can produce *any* phone is: no. I don't mean to belittle the community or detract from the activities of those who are actually doing but I think it's harmful to operate with a muddled view of the situation. The idea that it would be possible for the community to produce a phone with the same kind of specs as the phone that Canonical, with its billionaire owner, just tried and *failed* to build, seems to me to be rooted in a view so detached from reality as to be almost pathological. To even *ask* the question shows that there is a problem. There are limits on what the community can do. Engaging in pie-in-the-sky fantasies isn't going to help. Please allow me to address a question to the community as a whole: if you can produce a free phone then why aren't you? Do it! What are you *waiting* for? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 23:20 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Thu 22 August 2013 21:44:13 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Producing new cases is a matter of enough money, not of capabilities... As already suggested by me[1], you also could go the other way and adapt the PCB shape (plus a few circuit addons like hw matrix kb) to fit into a widely available convenient existing case, more convenient and available than Openmoko shower-radio housing. Think N900 [2]. Nikolaus, could you release the source files for the GTA04 PCB so that others can work on this? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 23:30 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote: If this Shuttleguy really been interested in building a Edge , he'd simply DO it instead of starting nonsensical crowdfunding. Don't you see this is a marketing gag, nothing else? No, I don't. It was indeed a wonderful marketing campaign for Canonical's mobile efforts but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't want the phone to be made. We can speculate about why Shuttleworth was not prepared to invest his own money in the project but that's all it is, speculation. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On 2013-08-23 07:26, openm...@pulster.de wrote: the GTA04 is a ready-to-use OpenSource smartphone. The GTA04 *is* out of production and no longer for sale. It *could* be the motherboard in a ready-to-use smartphone but it *isn't*. There are no other reasons why it isnt available, just damn investment $$ are missing. If money is the only problem then why is nobody running a fundraising campaign? I don't think money is the only problem. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On 2013-08-23 09:38, joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Fri 23 August 2013 10:35:38 Bob Ham wrote: On 2013-08-23 07:26, openm...@pulster.de wrote: The GTA04 *is* out of production and no longer for sale. Says who? Says Golden Delicious: Note: we currently have no stock since we need to collect at least 200 orders so that we can produce in big enough batches. -- First sentence on https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 There are no other reasons why it isnt available, just damn investment $$ are missing. If money is the only problem then why is nobody running a fundraising campaign? I don't think money is the only problem. I think it's up to you to answer your own question, instead of implicitly accusing highly honored guys like Nikolaus and Christoph of not telling the truth. There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I'm not accusing anybody of hiding problems. I'm saying that there are problems other than money which are preventing the successful production of a free phone. Those other problems have been discussed openly on this list and others. everybody (even you) can start a fundraiser. Of course they *can*. But they're *not*. That's the point. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:02, openm...@pulster.de wrote: Its not out of Production, but production is stopped Err.. What's the difference between out of Production and production is stopped? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:38, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 23.08.2013 um 12:10 schrieb Bob Ham: What's the difference between out of Production and production is stopped? Compare with a train: stopped: is at the railway station and waiting for a green light I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote: I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04? That was already mentioned; money for components being available. The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to be implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money being available. How is that transition going to happen? What's going to cause the green light to go on? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 11:27, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 23.08.2013 um 13:18 schrieb Bob Ham: On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote: I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04? That was already mentioned; money for components being available. The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to be implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money being available. How is that transition going to happen? What's going to cause the green light to go on? People deciding to spend some money instead of complaining that it is too expensive. What is going to cause people to decide that? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 23.08.2013 um 15:45 schrieb Bob Ham: On 2013-08-23 11:27, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 23.08.2013 um 13:18 schrieb Bob Ham: On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote: I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04? That was already mentioned; money for components being available. The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to be implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money being available. How is that transition going to happen? What's going to cause the green light to go on? People deciding to spend some money instead of complaining that it is too expensive. What is going to cause people to decide that? What do you think the reason is? I can't see anything that people will cause people to make that decision. This is why I'm wondering what cause *you* see. You said you're waiting. What do you believe is going to happen? What are you waiting *for*? What is going to occur that will cause people to decide to spend money on the GTA04? I can't see any reason. A train stopped at a disconnected signal light waiting for it to go green, doesn't make any sense to me. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 00:20 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote: Can't you finally come up with some *suggestions* or - even better - real actions that would help? At present the community is beholden to a particular company which produces something the community depends on. That company has a monopoly on production within the community. It does not share the source files for its work and does not allow others to contribute to designs. This is the same situation as a community that is beholden to a company producing proprietary software. The GTA04 is like proprietary hardware. We have schematics in a .pdf file but nothing else. There is no shared repository containing the source files for the schematics or the PCB designs. Nobody can commit design fixes. The community is not iterating the GTA04 design. The community is not working together to create a free phone. Instead, all we do is discuss and argue about one company's product. A lot of people have come up with various ideas for modifications to the GTA04. Some of them simply require some soldering which is no problem. However, some require a redesign of the board. To my recollection, nobody has ever pointed out that this isn't possible unless Golden Delicious do it. The fact that only Golden Delicious can do it is bad. Despite describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware¹ and stating that the aims of the community are for DIY hardware², Golden Delicious does not release any source files for the hardware it produces. There is no community of hardware hackers contributing to shared PCB designs. I suggest that the community changes from consuming hardware designed and built by a single controlling entity to producing one or more Open Source Hardware³ phone designs which can be taken as a base, modified and manufactured by any party. For example, a board design could be used in the same fashion as the GTA04, as a replacement for GTA01/02 boards but could also be modified by the N900 community to provide an updated board for their phone. I suggest that Golden Delicious release the source files for the GTA04 board in order to assist this effort and act as a base for the first community phone design. ¹ http://www.openphoenux.org/ ² http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/community/2013-May/000324.html ³ http://www.ohanda.org/ -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 09:56 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Why are you still a member of this community I want freedom. I want a phone that runs 100% free software, including any firmware for component devices and also including firmware running on the baseband processor. I want the same freedom for the hardware. The openmoko-community and openphoenux-community mailing lists are places where I expect like-minded people will congregate. and participating in this discussion? Even though I believe the GTA04 product from Golden Delicious is not viable, I don't expect it will be the last effort to produce a free phone. Indeed, if Golden Delicious release the source files for the board, the GTA04 design could form a base for the development of the next effort. I hope this will happen. I hope that by participating in the discussion I can convince others to let go of the GTA04 product and embrace a broader, freer vision of a community that produces its own phone designs collaboratively. I believe this change will enable movement forward, bringing us closer to viable products and ultimately closer to freedom. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 11:21 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 24.08.2013 um 02:10 schrieb Bob Ham: We have schematics in a .pdf file but nothing else. Yes. And the PDF is the source. I don't believe this is the case. I believe the PDF was compiled from designs that came from other files. I don't believe your circuit designs were written in the PDF language. If they came from other files, the PDF is not the source, the other files are the source. You can run OCR and convert it into any format you like. And modify it as you like. What else do you expect? More convenience? It's not so much about convenience. Let me quote the GPL 2: The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. There is a reason for stipulating this. Having to convert a work into a format suitable for making modifications represents a barrier. It's a barrier to freedom. It can be abused. Even disregarding this reasoning, let's assume that it *is* just about convenience. Why is that bad? Why would you not want to help people take the GTA04 design and create a derivative? Why would you want to make it more difficult? Why are you reluctant to release the source files? high density PCB design needs a very specific type of knowledge that isn't widely available. The specialisation of the knowledge required to work on phone designs means that those with the knowledge will likely have high demands on their time. That means that one should aim to make it as easy as possible for them to get involved in the community. That means removing barriers like having to create new PCB designs from the PDF schematics. That means releasing the source files for the existing designs. Despite describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware¹ and stating that the aims of the community are for DIY hardware², Golden Delicious does not release any source files for the hardware it produces. There is no community of hardware hackers contributing to shared PCB designs. Because designing such a difficile and miniaturized device is more challenging than the average hardware hacker is capable to do. So let's foster a community of above-average hardware hackers who are up to the challenge. Golden Delicious can help foster such a community by making the source files for the GTA04 available. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 16:12 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: But start on the green field (yes, as prepared by Openmoko) as we have done. Why? Why do you want people to start on the green field rather than building on your work? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 11:26 +, Bob Ham wrote: Even disregarding this reasoning, let's assume that it *is* just about convenience. Why is that bad? Why would you not want to help people take the GTA04 design and create a derivative? Why would you want to make it more difficult? I answered your questions about why I am taking part in this discussion. I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions about helping others create derivatives of the GTA04. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:32, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 24.08.2013 um 13:26 schrieb Bob Ham: There is a reason for stipulating this. Having to convert a work into a format suitable for making modifications represents a barrier. It's a barrier to freedom. It can be abused. I only see the convenience aspect. You haven't addressed my question. I want to know why you want people to start PCB designs from scratch rather than making use of your work. Why do you think that convenience a bad thing? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:41, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 24.08.2013 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Ham: I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions about helping others create derivatives of the GTA04. I think i have done this several times (spread over several mails) in the past hours. I see plenty of reasoning about why you think people should avoid trying to create derivatives of the GTA04. I see no reasoning about why, once a person has decided to create a derivative, you want them to create PCB designs from scratch rather than using your work as a base. This is the matter that my question is concerned with. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:53, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Only your mother is giving you convenience for free... I find GNU to be overflowing with convenience. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Wed, 2013-10-02 at 23:15 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: It would have its own cost (in money and in size), but in the long run, I hope the benefits of relying on standardized interfaces would make up for it. From what I can tell, Free Hardware projects don't benefit nearly enough from each other's efforts. Not sure we have enough Sisyphus around to keep them all alive. I would note that the GTA04 is not a Free Hardware project. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-10-03 at 21:32 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 03.10.2013 um 20:09 schrieb Bob Ham: I would note that the GTA04 is not a Free Hardware project. Yes that is correct. It is not Free Hardware in the strict FSF definition I don't think FSF has a definition of Free Hardware. Possibly we're ascribing different meanings to the phrase. I'm using Free Hardware to refer to free or libre hardware with the four freedoms, as described by the (unfortunately named) Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance: http://www.ohanda.org/ All of them have been as open as it could be practically done at the moment when some design decisions had to be made. You've previously said that the reason you refuse to release the hardware source files, making the device more open, is because you expect money in return. Are you now saying restricting access to the hardware source files is somehow a design decision? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Fri, 2013-10-04 at 20:16 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 04.10.2013 um 19:48 schrieb Bob Ham: I don't think FSF has a definition of Free Hardware. Possibly we're ascribing different meanings to the phrase. Yes they have one and even do a certification (which would not be possible with a definition): http://www.fsf.org/news/endorsement-criteria http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Certification_criteria They don't use the term Free Hardware to describe what they're endorsing. I'm using Free Hardware to refer to free or libre hardware with the four freedoms, as described by the (unfortunately named) Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance: http://www.ohanda.org/ All of them have been as open as it could be practically done at the moment when some design decisions had to be made. You've previously said that the reason you refuse to release the hardware source files, making the device more open, is because you expect money in return. Are you now saying restricting access to the hardware source files is somehow a design decision? ??? I already told you that the hardware source files are open and public. The source files are not public. The only thing that is public is a PDF file containing bitmap images generated from other (Eagle?) source files. The other source files themselves are not available. I don't understand how you can maintain that the source files are public. Just not in the format you would like to see them but you are free to convert them. You don't seem to understand that the difference in format is critical. It is the difference that prevents the GTA04 being described as free hardware. By your logic, all binary software executables are open because the format can be converted into assembler. While it may be true that one can disassemble binaries and modify the resulting assembler, this is not what we're referring to by the phrase free software. Similarly, the GTA04 is not free hardware. And by the way, I looked into your idea of scanning PCB schematics. It's bogus. I tried to see whether any suitable software was available but here's what I found instead: there is no direct way to translate pure graphical data to an intelligent schematic, EDA schematics contain a lot of intelligent information that simply is not available on a sheet of paper http://www.edaboard.com/thread8258.html No, nothing like that exists. ... Such a tool would be difficult to create, and impossible to realistically support considering the multitude of ways even a single IC could be represented. ... In short, it's unrealistic. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/66432/any-research-to-turn-schematics-as-a-picture-into-a-simulation Here I am referring to the typical discussion about binary blobs and firmware drivers - because we decide(d) to use chips we can buy. You're obviously using the phrase free hardware to mean hardware that can run with entirely free software. This seems to be non-normal usage. For example, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_Freedom_Day -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Neither the Openmoko, OpenPandora, Ubuntu Edge, GTA04 are open hardware - and never were intended to be. That isn't what your OpenPhoenux page says: Open Hardware Devices. Letux 2804 / GTA04 Smartphone http://www.openphoenux.org/ You're also contradicting your own previous statements: I see the role of GDC [Golden Delicious Computers] to provide future open hardware but remain software agnostic http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-May/066835.html On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 09:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I simply don't believe in the Free Hardware ideology. This admission makes your announcement here seem deceitful: we are happy that we can make an announcement to the Free and Open Hardware Community, right in time for X-mas and New Year: We have finally tested, understood and patched the bugs of the first GTA04 sample board http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-December/006585.html -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 13:34 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: You're nitpicking about different meanings of open and free. This is hardly nitpicking. If I had known what Nikolaus's position was back in 2010, I doubt I would ever have bought a GTA04. There seems to be (1) the meaning that Nikolaus gives free hardware and open hardware; and (2) the meaning everyone else gives free hardware and open hardware. It seems to me that Nikolaus has falsely advertised the GTA04, and is continuing to do so. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 14:07 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: I can agree that the usage of free hardware term may be a bit confusing. Describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware on openphoenux.org is, I believe, not just confusing but dishonest. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 17:17 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 05.10.2013 um 12:12 schrieb Bob Ham: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Neither the Openmoko, OpenPandora, Ubuntu Edge, GTA04 are open hardware - and never were intended to be. That isn't what your OpenPhoenux page says: You're also contradicting your own previous statements: This admission makes your announcement here seem deceitful: Hm, I wonder what you want to prove? I want you to stop describing the GTA04 as open hardware. You seem to be aware that there is a difference between what you describe as open hardware and what others describe as open hardware and yet you ignore this discrepancy and continue as if what you're saying is true because it accords with your own personal definition. I want to make it undeniably clear that describing the GTA04 as open hardware is wrong. On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: If I remember there was a printout of the ssl code on paper, exported as a book from the US and then typed in again by volunteers to found openssl. Was it non.open source? It was not open source. This issue has been discussed previously. The source must be in the form customarily used for making modifications to it. This is an important factor. From the GNU GPL 2: 'The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it' https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html From the Apache License 2.0: 'Source form shall mean the preferred form for making modifications' https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html From the MPL 2.0: '“Source Code Form” means the form of the work preferred for making modifications.' https://www.mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/ From the CDDL 1.0: '“Source Code” means (a) the common form of computer software code in which modifications are made and (b) associated documentation included in or with such code.' http://web.archive.org/web/20090305064954/http://www.sun.com/cddl/cddl.html If a software company refused access to their software's source code in electronic text form and only released it in paper form (or in the form of a bitmap image inside a PDF), that software would not be considered open source. The phrase that seems most appropriate for such software, I think, would be encumbered source. Wikipedia gives a fair description of open(/free) hardware: 'Open-source hardware consists of physical artifacts of technology designed and offered by the open design movement.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_hardware And of the open design movement, it says this: 'Open design is the development of physical products, machines and systems through use of publicly shared design information. ... The process is generally facilitated by the Internet and often performed without monetary compensation. The goals and philosophy are identical to that of the open-source movement, but are implemented for the development of physical products rather than software.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design The Hardware Freedom Day website states the following: 'Goals and philosophy of the Open Hardware movement are closely aligned with the ones of the Free Software movement.' http://www.hfday.org/open-hardware The free hardware and open hardware communities derive their ethos from free software and open-source software. Access to source files in the preferred format for making modifications is therefore an important requirement for free/open hardware just as it is for free/open software. The Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance have taken the four freedoms of the Free Software Definition and modified them to apply to free hardware. They stipulate the following in freedoms 1 and 3 of their criteria for use of the OHANDA label: 'Access to the *complete* design is precondition to this' http://www.ohanda.org/ (My emphasis) The requirement is made explicit by the Open Source Hardware Association which has the following in its Open Source Hardware Definition 1.0: 'The documentation must include design files in the preferred format for making changes, for example the native file format of a CAD program.' http://www.oshwa.org/definition/ The idea that a circuit schematic in bitmap form constitutes the source for open hardware is fallacious. Furthermore, continuing to quote Wikipedia on open design: Open design is a form of co-creation, where the final product is designed by the users, rather than an external stakeholder such as a private company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design What you're doing is nothing to do with open hardware. The idea that you can pop some schematic bitmaps in the back of your manual while refusing access to the source files, and then rightfully label your company's product as open hardware is fallacious. Please stop labelling your company's product as open hardware. -- Bob Ham r
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 20:10 +0200, Martin Jansa wrote: On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 05:37:59PM +, Bob Ham wrote: I want you to stop describing the GTA04 as open hardware. You seem to be aware that there is a difference between what you describe as open hardware and what others describe as open hardware and yet you ignore this discrepancy and continue as if what you're saying is true because it accords with your own personal definition. I'm sorry but I think you're doing the same, just from the other side. From this thread it's clear that different people understand open hardware differently, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong or dishonest. I disagree. I've quoted a number of different bodies on their idea of what constitutes open hardware and they all concur. Meanwhile: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: And for me any printout that I can read is open source. Nikolaus goes by his own definitions, regardless of what is generally accepted. We've even got people making up their own meaningless phrases: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 14:07 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: In my dictionary, it's definitely free platform. The way I see it, on one hand there is a bunch of individuals on a mailing list with their own ideas about what the phrase open hardware should refer to, and on the other hand there are a number of well-organised bodies with clear definitions which are not only in accord with each other but with (1) the open hardware community that I know and (2) the principles of the free software movement and the open source community, the progenitors of those bodies. == open hardware isn't AFAIK any registered sticker or trade mark with clearly defined meaning, so it's pity that different people associate it with different meanings/freedoms, but that's not their fault. The people here seem to have their own meanings. Everybody else seems to have a pretty consistent idea about what constitutes open hardware. You're right though, there is no trade mark. I would hope that by clearly demonstrating how Nikolaus's ideas conflict with the basic ideas of the open hardware community, he will respect the fact that there is an incompatibility and refrain from misrepresenting his product. == Your source code citations from licenses are nice, but license text is the right place where you should find definition of what's meant by term source code The quotations from license are there as evidence of the principles of the free software movement and the open source community. Licenses are explicit manifestations of the ideas and motivations behind these groups. If you want to find out what the open source community or the free software movement believes, the licenses they create are the place to go. What we see when look at those expressions of principles is a common theme of requiring source code to be in the preferred form for making modifications. This idea has been inherited by the open hardware community. The inheritance is expressed in the Open Source Hardware Definition and elsewhere. To me, those people who disagree are not part of the open hardware community. They're part of some other community which does not share the principles of the open design movement. And in fact, Nikolaus admits as much: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 09:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I simply don't believe in the Free Hardware ideology. == Your accusations sounds like if Nikolaus is using OHANDA clearly defined label without fulfilling requirements defined by OHANDA. Well, I'm not sure how you get that impression. It's not like it's a matter of adherence to a collection of finely detailed criteria. Nikolaus denies access to the source files for his hardware. It's not a subtle conflict. It flies in the face of the open hardware movement. To be honest, I'm dumbfounded that there can be any confusion over it. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 08:42 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Can you agree on the following? 1. you are talking about open SOURCE hardware (which I call free hardware) No. I've explicitly refrained from distinguishing between such labels because I'm aware that they are not as well defined in the domain of hardware as they are in the domain of software. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Wed, 2013-10-16 at 20:03 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 16.10.2013 um 19:31 schrieb Timo Juhani Lindfors: Balint Szente bal...@szentedwg.ro writes: What is not clear for me is that can a software be FSF/OSI free but illegal to use? Free is a term only considering copyright. I.e. it is licenced under copyleft. This is incorrect. Copyleft and software freedom are different concepts. For example, BSD code is free software but not copyleft. The FSF explicitly describes the BSD license as a free software license: 'This is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license' https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OriginalBSD -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Wed, 2013-10-16 at 14:30 -0500, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: Afaik you can use it legally if you connect it directly to your own base station. The other approach would be to start a kickstarter/selfstarter to buy some spectrum licenses That's not really necessary; GSM development licenses are not expensive. I understand in Germany a 12-month license costs around €130. In the UK it is £50. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04A5 / Letux 2804
On 2014-01-24 07:45, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: he wanted to use GTA02 motherboards as wall decorations or somesuch - now THAT kind of waste should be criminally punishable! I find this a curious statement. I'm not sure how you can claim your own micronation and yet argue that others should be criminally punished for their behaviour outside your micronation. There appears to be a conflict between your purported views on freedom and your view of punishment. It seems to me that if you truly believed in individual sovereignty to the degree of having declared your own micronation, you would not be offering an opinion on the criminality of others. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? BTW: more support for that work from the community would speed up progress. On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 09:57 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Looks like topic for a master or PhD thesis... When you start working on the master or PhD thesis to resolve the power drain, I'm sure you'll find the community will be more supportive -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the kernel is working on the power drain. You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless phone board, the community will be more supportive. -- Bob Ham r...@settrans.net for (;;) { ++pancakes; } signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 21:32 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I am not asking you to publicly apologize for the 2 years of mental TORTURE you put me through They didn't put you through torture, you put yourself through it. You continue to do that now, in different ways. The person who you most need to apologise to is yourself. I wish you healing and wellness. Bob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 17:11 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: Why is your wellness dependant on a phone? Because I use one to stay in touch with the people who matter in my life What would be the consequences if you didn't have a mobile phone to do that? It is also a well-known fact that most free software developers derive great personal satisfaction from doing something that benefits a larger community True. However, there's a very big difference between deriving satisfaction from doing worthwhile work and being pathologically dependant on it. I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. It looks like for you, the work isn't done just for satisfaction, it looks like a need. On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 17:41 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I do not owe any apology to a bunch of sadists who got some kind of sexual gratification out of watching my life wither away (for a full 2 years!) How did your life wither away? What happened? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Wed, 2015-04-22 at 15:42 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: I disagree. The same pathological need still seems very much present. And the emphasis here is on the pathological. In your emails to this list, there is still a very strong strain of psychological disequilibrium and this is a bad thing, for the list, the wider community and for you. So what exactly do YOU seek to accomplish by deconstructing my motivations for working on the FreeCalypso project? As I said, perhaps I can help you to achieve some peace. When one person achieves some peace, we all benefit. Suppose you succeeded in convincing me to either drop the project or take it underground to where you'll never hear about it again - how would such a change benefit you or the wider community? My concern is not to convince you to drop the project or take it underground. I don't know where you got that idea from. However, an absence of your writings on this list would benefit me and the wider community in that in would elevate the environment to a more peaceful one. Let me pick out some of the individual key words which you've written recently and which I quoted in my last email: peasant unpaid only one hardship unprivileged nobody kidnap torture kill life-sacrifice hurt torture painful These words are not exactly uplifting. One doesn't need to be a psychiatrist to see that there some deep problems you're grappling with. You may not recognise or acknowledge those problems. You may not acknowledge that others can see the symptoms but we can. Your emails are a mix of technical content and symptoms of your personal psychological problems. The latter has a negative impact on the community. If your emails were technical content alone, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, free firmware in your phone won't actually bring you peace like you think it will. Because as soon as you got that phone, it would become clear that you're still bound by the proprietary firmware running on every GSM base station. And once you'd solved that problem, you'd go on to the next piece of proprietary firmware like the VGABIOS in your graphics card or the controller firmware on your hard disk. The phone is not the problem. The base station and laptop and hard disk are not the problem. The problem is within you, within your mind. You're not at peace. Unfortunately, there are no screws to tighten and no code to patch to fix your mind. On the other hand, you're saying that the only reason you need a mobile phone is to contact your loved ones. I don't understand why you can't use a land line with a firmware-less handset. I need *them* to be able to contact *me* freely while I roam around a rather large geographical area. Why? What is so important about needing a mobile phone for immediate contact? As I see it, the choices you had in the past were: 1) Let your family know the nearest landline you can be contacted on as you move around. 2) Use a phone with proprietary firmware. 3) Threaten murder. For some reason, you chose to threaten murder. Why? The fact that you're currently using a mobile phone with a proprietary firmware without threatening to murder people shows that there's some contradictions in what you're saying. No act of murder would free my Pirelli DP-L10 from its proprietary fw, How would murder have freed your Openmoko phone from its proprietary fw? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 21:28 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: Because I use one to stay in touch with the people who matter in my life What would be the consequences if you didn't have a mobile phone to do that? I consider this status quo to be a very poor state of affairs That doesn't sound like a particularly grave consequence. Feeling that something is a very poor state of affairs doesn't seem like motivation for threatening murder. True. However, there's a very big difference between deriving satisfaction from doing worthwhile work and being pathologically dependant on it. I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. It looks like for you, the work isn't done just for satisfaction, it looks like a need. The need I had at that time has been satisfied, hence there is nothing relevant to the present in need of discussion here. I disagree. The same pathological need still seems very much present. And the emphasis here is on the pathological. In your emails to this list, there is still a very strong strain of psychological disequilibrium and this is a bad thing, for the list, the wider community and for you. On the one hand you're saying that your phone work is so important that your life withered away for two years because of it, and that it justifies threatening murder. On the other hand, you're saying that the only reason you need a mobile phone is to contact your loved ones. I don't understand why you can't use a land line with a firmware-less handset. The fact that you're currently using a mobile phone with a proprietary firmware without threatening to murder people shows that there's some contradictions in what you're saying. Either you're full of shit, or you're not aware that there are contradictions. Assuming you're not full of shit, examining the contradictions and making them conscious can help to resolve the internal conflicts which give rise to your dysfunctional behaviour. Of course, if you are full of shit then there's a whole other set of internal conflicts to deal with. You asked me how you torture yourself now. I'm trying to answer that question. In doing so, it's possible that the dysfunctional content of your regular expositions on this list can be resolved and we can all live more peacefully, including yourself. I'll provide you with some examples so that you're aware of what is inappropriate. Some of these are quite innocuous statements by themselves but their inappropriate nature becomes clear when seen as part of a pathological pattern: On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 06:15 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: my old peasant mind it has occupied me on and off (unpaid volunteer time is naturally limited) for a year and a half now Unfortunately there is only one of me The amount that's been raised ... will certainly help relieve my and Shannon's current severe hardship On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 17:41 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: unprivileged persons like me nobodies like me there is no longer any need for me to kidnap, torture or kill anyone there is no more need to resort to life-sacrifice means On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 21:32 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: your former coworkers who badly hurt me the 2 years of mental TORTURE you put me through the painful 2 y long episode ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 15:38 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I wish you healing and wellness. Those will happen automatically as soon as I have a phone in my purse that runs my own firmware. Why is your wellness dependant on a phone? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding campaign for cloning the GTA02
On Mon, 2015-04-06 at 05:07 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: In the case of this elderly TI Calypso baseband there is not just one, but two free software projects working toward running fully free and fully functional firmware on the baseband: OsmocomBB and my own FreeCalypso. FreeCalypso isn't free firmware, it's leaked proprietary firmware. The user does not have the right to even run the firmware, at least within nation states whose laws respect copyright. This includes the United States and hence Long Beach, California, where you claim to be based in your Indiegogo campaign. What you claim to be free firmware is not. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sun, 2015-05-24 at 01:54 -0700, Brolin Empey wrote: Bob Ham wrote: I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. Hans Reiser? ;-) Hans Reiser murdered his wife who had left him, not someone who got in the way of his work. Your response is inappropriate and in extremely bad taste. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA04 bundle for sale
Hi all, I am offering a huge GTA04 bundle including a complete GTA04, a complete Neo 1973 (GTA01) kit and a virtual treasure trove of accessories :-) The GTA04 can run the latest 4.10 kernel[0]. Photos are here: http://settrans.net/~rah/gta04-sale/ - Golden Delicious GTA04 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM board - Golden Delicious GTA04 LCD module (attached to GTA04 board) - Golden Delicious GTA04 RS232 cable - OpenMoko Neo 1973 case, modified to fit GTA04 - OpenMoko Neo 1973 board with LCD attached (it has string around it to keep the battery in; I'll even throw in the string for free! ;-) - OpenMoko charger A10P1-05MP 5V 2.0A, USB mini B with swappable UK and European plugs (bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - FIC GTA-01 battery (barely holds charge) - FIC GTA-02 battery (good, bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - OpenMoko neoprene phone case - OpenMoko big black plastic hacker box (this is possibly the hardest thing to let go of; it's a really nice box :-) - OpenMoko lanyard, unopened - 2x GTA01 debug boards with flexible flat cables - Bag of PCB offsets for one debug board - 2x Glede Torx T6 screwdrivers (one brand new and unopened) - 2x brand new USB A to USB mini B cables - Dunlop 73 guitar pick - Combination pen, stylus and LED light with metal case. Unfortunately the pocket clip is loose now and doesn't stay on any more. I can't comment on the light but the batteries are definitely drained :-) I'll include them though, so you can find replacements. - Zagg Invisible Shield "OpenMoko Condom" case protector (unused) I am looking to sell everything for £800 (GBP) plus postage or to exchange for bitcoins. I'm open to offers though. Kind regards, Bob [0] http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2017-February/007257.html PS, please excuse the cross-posting signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 bundle for sale
Hi again, After some discussion with others, inspection of currency exchange rates, and further ruminations on my desire to shift the kit, I have decided to drop the asking price to £550 plus postage, or nearest offer. Regards, Bob On 2017-02-22 21:20, Bob Ham wrote: Hi all, I am offering a huge GTA04 bundle including a complete GTA04, a complete Neo 1973 (GTA01) kit and a virtual treasure trove of accessories :-) The GTA04 can run the latest 4.10 kernel[0]. Photos are here: http://settrans.net/~rah/gta04-sale/ - Golden Delicious GTA04 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM board - Golden Delicious GTA04 LCD module (attached to GTA04 board) - Golden Delicious GTA04 RS232 cable - OpenMoko Neo 1973 case, modified to fit GTA04 - OpenMoko Neo 1973 board with LCD attached (it has string around it to keep the battery in; I'll even throw in the string for free! ;-) - OpenMoko charger A10P1-05MP 5V 2.0A, USB mini B with swappable UK and European plugs (bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - FIC GTA-01 battery (barely holds charge) - FIC GTA-02 battery (good, bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - OpenMoko neoprene phone case - OpenMoko big black plastic hacker box (this is possibly the hardest thing to let go of; it's a really nice box :-) - OpenMoko lanyard, unopened - 2x GTA01 debug boards with flexible flat cables - Bag of PCB offsets for one debug board - 2x Glede Torx T6 screwdrivers (one brand new and unopened) - 2x brand new USB A to USB mini B cables - Dunlop 73 guitar pick - Combination pen, stylus and LED light with metal case. Unfortunately the pocket clip is loose now and doesn't stay on any more. I can't comment on the light but the batteries are definitely drained :-) I'll include them though, so you can find replacements. - Zagg Invisible Shield "OpenMoko Condom" case protector (unused) I am looking to sell everything for £800 (GBP) plus postage or to exchange for bitcoins. I'm open to offers though. Kind regards, Bob [0] http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2017-February/007257.html PS, please excuse the cross-posting -- Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net> for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko13 firmware
On 2017-10-12 17:42, Mychaela Falconia wrote: Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net> wrote: then the FreeCalypso firmware is not based on OM's historical firmwares. Therefore, the statement regarding the recently released moko13 firmware update was not false. The person I was refuting did not say that the new fw is not based on OM's historical fw, he said that it is not based on "the original licensed firmware for Openmoko devices". A reasonable interpretation of that "original licensed fw" phrase is "firmware which TI licensed to OM" A reasonable interpretation of this situation is that your reasonable interpretation of the words of the person you were refuting, is a misinterpretation. That is, you misunderstood what they meant. It's not a big deal. -- Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net> for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko13 firmware
On 2017-10-10 21:16, Mychaela Falconia wrote: On Tue Aug 29 01:05:29 UTC 2017 Joerg Reisenweber wrote regarding the recently released moko13 firmware update: Please carefully note that this update is not based on the original licensed firmware for Openmoko devices, This statement is false, and the poster knows it. Both OM's historical firmwares and the current FreeCalypso ones are based on the same 20070608 base code delivery from TI If the FreeCalypso firmware is based on the 20070608 base code from TI and OM's historical firmwares are based on the 20070608 base code from TI then the FreeCalypso firmware is not based on OM's historical firmwares. Therefore, the statement regarding the recently released moko13 firmware update was not false. -- Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net> for (;;) { ++pancakes; } ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community