Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 10:07 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are
able to mass produce the new cases ?
No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for
existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases.
Ah! I didn't realise the GTA02 and GTA01 cases were compatible. Just
to be 100% sure about this, could you possibly answer explicitly: will
the GTA04 board fit in a Neo 1973 (GTA01) case, with the antenna,
display, speaker, battery, etc, all working?
Bob
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openmoko.org servers
Hi there,
The git.openmoko.org host often goes down for long periods and it's
becoming a problem, not to mention annoying. I've been labouring under
the impression that the openmoko.org domain was taken over by the
community. However, having done some dns and whois queries, it appears
that the domain and all of the servers within it are still under the
control of FIC. In particular, these hosts:
88.198.93.219shakti.openmoko.org
CNAME downloads.openmoko.org
88.198.93.221 devi.openmoko.org
CNAMEwww.openmoko.org
CNAME wiki.openmoko.org
88.198.124.203 sita.openmoko.org
CNAME lists.openmoko.org
CNAME planet.openmoko.org
88.198.148.21 docs.openmoko.org
CNAMEsvn.openmoko.org
88.198.160.201 git.openmoko.org
According to the WHOIS database, the IP ranges that cover theses hosts
are all assigned to FIC and each have their admin and technical contact
recorded as Sean Moss-Pultz.
This situation strikes me as very precarious. FIC has essentially
abandoned the openmoko phone hardware/software project. Some of the
hosts are unreliable. Meanwhile, they store three things of great
importance:
1. Vital technical information about the GTA01 and GTA02 phones.
2. Sources for working openmoko software, including kernel trees.
3. A complete history for essentially the whole endeavour, in the form
of mailing list archives (including this list).
I think this information should be moved away from FIC-hosted servers.
It should be firstly archived and secondly more reliable access needs to
be provided for the git and svn servers.
I wonder, Sean, whether you are able to provide the raw data stored on
these hosts so that the services might be replicated or moved elsewhere?
And even whether the openmoko.org domain could be relinquished to the
community?
There are a number of organisations that spring to mind as able to offer
hosting for this kind of effort: the Open Source Lab at Oregon State
University¹, The Linux Foundation², The Internet Archive³, ibiblio⁴
(what used to be UNC's SunSITE), etc.
I'm curious to know what others in the community think about this?
Regards,
Bob
¹ http://osuosl.org/about-osuosl
² http://www.linuxfoundation.org/labs
³ http://archive.org/about/about.php
⁴ http://www.ibiblio.org/about/
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Re: openmoko.org servers
On Sun, 2012-03-25 at 13:40 +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
servers are not hosted or owned by FIC
WHOIS:
Domain ID:D129289086-LROR
Domain Name:OPENMOKO.ORG
The IP addresses used by the hosts I listed are all registered to FIC:
rah@myrtle:~$ host 88.198.160.201
201.160.198.88.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer git.openmoko.org.
rah@myrtle:~$ whois 88.198.160.201
...
inetnum:88.198.160.200 - 88.198.160.207
netname:FIRST-INTERNATIONAL-COMPUTER-INC
descr: First International Computer, Inc.
country:DE
admin-c:SM8835-RIPE
tech-c: SM8835-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: HOS-GUN
mnt-lower: HOS-GUN
mnt-routes: HOS-GUN
source: RIPE # Filtered
person: Sean Moss-Pultz
address:First International Computer, Inc.
address:300, Yang Guang Street
address:114 Taipei
address:TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA
e-mail: lafo...@openmoko.org
phone: +49 3024033902
fax-no: +49 3024033904
mnt-by: HOS-GUN
nic-hdl:SM8835-RIPE
source: RIPE # Filtered
admins are still Roh and Gismo afaik
ownership (aka payment) went to Harald Welte (see Name Server above)
I'm a little confused. Perhaps I'm being obtuse here but why haven't
any of these people responded to my original email?
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Re: About infra maintenance [was: Re: openmoko.org servers]
On Sun, 2012-03-25 at 17:05 +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
Anyway, best advice when any problems with OM infra hit:
* join #openmoko (or #openmoko-cdevel) on freenode.net,
* say hello and describe the issue, ask what can be / has been done
and whom
to ping (typical post: Hi! wiki.openmoko.org down for anybody else?)
* WAIT until somebody answers - this may be minutes to several
hours.
It's ironic that you mention #openmoko-cdevel. Some months ago I asked
in #openmoko-cdevel when git.openmoko.org was down. Nobody responded at
all, let alone after some hours.
I also asked in #openmoko-cdevel prior to sending my email a couple of
days ago. Nobody knew who was maintaining the openmoko servers. The
fact that the IP addresses were still registered with FIC was pointed
out and it was agreed that this was a problem. Then I sent my email to
this list.
If the best advice for when there are problems with openmoko.org hosts,
is to bring the subject in #openmoko-cdevel then we really are in
trouble :-) Could you possibly provide email addresses for roh and
whoever else is responsible for the openmoko.org servers so that
everyone knows who to contact?
Thanks,
Bob
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Openmoko servers
Mr Moss-Pultz,
The server docs.openmoko.org (aka svn.openmoko.org) has been down for
some time. Word around the camp fire has it that it is down because the
hosting company has blocked access to the machine; that they require a
signature from yourself in order to transfer control to the
administrator; and that this signature has not been received.
Could I ask: is there a particular reason that this signature has not
been provided? Are you unwilling to relinquish control?
The situation needs to be resolved so that we can get access to the data
hosted on the server, and preferably as soon as possible.
Kind regards,
Bob Ham
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Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 28/04/2012 10:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds?
What would you like as future hardware?
* WiFi chip with free firmware
* Baseband processor with free firmware
* Hardware keyboard
* Bigger screen
* Multitouch for pinch zooming
What to see in software
distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for?
Everything on Benjamin Deering's list, plus:
* A calendar app that displays contact's birthdays (with alarm or some
other notification beforehand) and synchronises with a calendar
stored on my server
* A contact app that syncronises with a contact database stored on my
server
* An email client that allows easy access to a large number of IMAP
folders
* Easy mesh networking, possibly using B.A.T.M.A.N.
Bear in mind that I don't have a Freerunner or a Phoenux so I don't know
whether any of these items exist already.
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Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
On Tue, 2012-05-01 at 18:06 +0200, Dr.H.NikolausS wrote:
we have developed a prototype for a 80 button QWERTY keyboard PCB
that could eventually be connected/integrated into the GTA04
This is some good work and the PCB looks like it will be useful.
However, I think it may be premature to start designing keyboard
circuits.
I think the really important issue in developing a hardware keyboard is
in the physical design; the arrangement of keys, how the shape of keys
effects ease of typing, how the keyboard is integrated into the case,
etc. In order to develop case designs that include a keyboard, we must
first have designs for cases without a keyboard :-)
At present, we do not have this. As I understand it, Slyon's cases do
not fit together properly and so we cannot build a complete GTA04 case
from them yet (has this changed?) There are also no case component kits
available.
I think it would be more advantageous to spend time dealing with these
basic problems. That way, we will have a solid base from which to build
more advanced designs, including designs that incorporate a keyboard.
Also, I believe we should not limit ourselves to the existing case
shape. I will say more about that in a separate email to the GTA04
list.
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Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 11:02 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
I think the really important issue in developing a hardware keyboard is
in the physical design; the arrangement of keys, how the shape of keys
The arrangement of keys is more or less standardized, so there isn't
much room for experimentation.
I think there's quite a lot of variation in modern phone keyboards. For
example, some Blackberry phones have two alphanumeric characters per
key, some phones have no number keys, some have an arrow key block and
some don't, etc.
Even within the confines of a basic qwerty keyboard, there seem to be
many variations in layout; whether the rows are offset or aligned in a
grid, whether there is a multi-row Enter key, the size of the space bar,
etc.
effects ease of typing, how the keyboard is integrated into the case,
etc. In order to develop case designs that include a keyboard, we must
Yes, shape effects ease of typing. But also do the mechanical properties of
the electric contacts. I.e. what their contact force is. You can only test
that
with having the electronics ready (at least in a prototype status).
That's a fair point.
first have designs for cases without a keyboard :-)
Well, but what do you do if you design a keyboard where the mechanical
switches are not available? Part of the experiment was to test how well
these Panasonic things work, how easily they can be soldered, what they
impose as the minimum distance between buttons.
I see.
At present, we do not have this. As I understand it, Slyon's cases do
not fit together properly and so we cannot build a complete GTA04 case
from them yet (has this changed?) There are also no case component kits
available.
The key missing part is the UMTS pentaband antenna. There are
antenna modules out there (e.g. Antenova) but those are too big.
It might be worth designing a slightly different case in order to
accommodate a usable antenna module. There is a danger of allowing
one's self to be limited by the existing design. I would say change the
case design if it will allow production of complete phones.
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
You could do pancakes+=2; :)
True. But why would I want to skip a pancake? ;-)
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Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Sun, 2012-05-06 at 23:23 +0200, Harald Welte wrote:
From my point of view, in order to proceed, what would need to be done is:
2) finding somebody with the required skills, dedication and trust by
all involved entities/people to actually maintain/upgrade those
systems for the time to come.
3) ensure that Openmoko, Inc. still has an adequate amount of last
resort control over what happens there, as it (after all) still is
their trademark. So if somebody sues them over content on those
sites, they need to be able to take action by removing such content
without having to go to anyone else.
4) migrate the VMs or at least the content to new, more reliable (and
also less expensive) rented server hardware.
I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at
Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego
project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and
Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few.
They're open to the idea of migrating openmoko.org services and/or
server VMs to their infrastructure. I believe this would be the most
sustainable and practical solution.
Bob Ham
¹ http://osuosl.org/about-osuosl
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Re: [dfu-util] who use it for flashing FR?
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 14:58 +0200, Patryk Benderz wrote:
how many of you are still using dfu-util for flashing your FR's internal
memory?
I don't have a Freerunner, I have a 1973 and I use dfu-util to flash its
internal memory.
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Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 00:08 +0100, Bob Ham wrote:
I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at
Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego
project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and
Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few.
They're open to the idea of migrating openmoko.org services and/or
server VMs to their infrastructure. I believe this would be the most
sustainable and practical solution.
Harald, Maximilian and Joachim, as the present administrators what do
you think about this idea?
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Re: *.openmoko.org infrastructure
On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 20:33 +0200, Harald Welte wrote:
On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 07:20:36PM +0100, Bob Ham wrote:
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 00:08 +0100, Bob Ham wrote:
I've spoken through IRC to some of the guys at the Open Source Lab at
Oregon State University¹. This group hosts, for example, the Meego
project, as well as helping host parts of the Apache, Debian, CentOS and
Gentoo infrastructures, to name a few.
Harald, Maximilian and Joachim, as the present administrators what do
you think about this idea?
I think it's an excellent idea. This seems like a good idea, given
that there are people who are already taking care of hosting other
projects and thus already do quite a bit of sysadmin.
So just to be clear on this: From my point of view the problem is not
to pay for some hosting/traffic every month. If anything else fails,
I'd even pay that out of my own pocket. The main issue is to have
somebody who will actually take care of updating the debian packages,
run backups, make sure things run smoothly and do a dist-upgrade every
couple of years.
Indeed, that is the main issue. The way I see it, freeing the community
from the burden of administering infrastructure can only be a good
thing.
But in the end, it is Sean that you have to convince, not me ;)
Sean, what do you think?
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Re: unofficial mirror for {git, lists, wiki}.openmoko.org
On Wed, 2012-05-16 at 16:40 +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
I created an unofficial mirror for
git.openmoko.org, wiki.openmoko.org and lists.openmoko.org:
Nice one :-)
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Re: Delivery of the GTA04
On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 09:26 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
* I think it will need 1-2 weeks until we finally know and they have
production ramped up
Do we know whether the GTA04 group tour units have production ramped up?
We could do with them here in the UK right now..
http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/public-sector/3357807/met-police-uses-quick-mobile-data-extraction-system-against-suspects/
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Re: New PowerVR SGX reverse engineering project
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:43:25 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 16.06.2012 um 12:06 schrieb Simon Busch:
The mailinglist is closed already cause of a possible lawsuit. Let me
quote Bob Ham:
No need to worry. Lawsuits are always possible, independently of what
you
do.
Even if you do nothing :)
Indeed :-)
The GNU lawyers have apparently stated that this PowerVR reverse
engineering project should not be hosted by the GNU project (on
savannah.nongnu.org) as there is a risk of the GNU project being the
subject of a lawsuit. Yay for lawyers!
I feel I should clarify this. I was told that the lawyers said it would
be not a good idea if the project was hosted by GNU and they said the
risk was small but that it would be better to avoid it entirely. It's my
inference that the risk they're talking about is of a lawsuit (although I
can't imagine what else they would mean).
As far as I know there is no specific threat at present. I wouldn't want
people to get the wrong idea :-)
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Re: [Gta04-owner] New Phoronix article on Gta04
On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 08:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 04.07.2012 um 05:06 schrieb Alishams Hassam:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTEzMjI If you
There is a typical misunderstanding with the specs.
I never did see a $100 iPhone (even on eBay and then it is broken)...
This also forgets that
I wouldn't worry too much about Phoronix. Their reporting is always
sub-par. And moveover, people know their reporting is sub-par. They
seem to be like a tabloid newspaper: they're not so concerned about the
accuracy of their reporting so long as you read the site. They'll quite
happily publish deliberately inflammatory articles to boost their
readership.
I used to have a link to Phoronix on the toolbar of my browser but I
removed it just recently because I got tired of all the nonsense they
write.
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Re: [Gta04-owner] New Phoronix article on Gta04
On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 00:01 -0700, Alishams Hassam wrote:
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about Phoronix. Their reporting is always
sub-par. And moveover, people know their reporting is sub-par. They
seem to be like a tabloid newspaper: they're not so concerned about the
accuracy of their reporting so long as you read the site. They'll quite
happily publish deliberately inflammatory articles to boost their
readership.
I agree that certainly there articles that are shit. However they also
have many good articles and many examples of exemplary reporting.
I must say I'm quite surprised by this. I would love to ask for
examples of what you consider to be an examplary article on the site.
However, I think it's probably best if we just agree to disagree :-)
In
this case, I would say the article is sub-par, however it is just as
much our fault as Phoronix's.
Again I'm going to have to disagree; I think it's all Phoronix's
fault :-)
My goal with collecting these 'good
reasons' is that when future articles are published, the writer won't
have to dig through the mailing lists and bug developers for good
points.
You mean they won't have to.. do their job? :-)
If Phoronix publishes another article bashing the GTA04 after we have
made our case easy to represent, I will agree with your conclusion ;)
I'll hold you to you to that :-) But I wouldn't worry about if.
Given Phoronix's usual modus operandi, you can rest assured that a
string of negative, similarly sub-par articles will now ensue.
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Re: New PowerVR SGX reverse engineering project
On Sat, 2012-06-16 at 12:43 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 16.06.2012 um 12:06 schrieb Simon Busch:
The mailinglist is closed already cause of a possible lawsuit.
There will be another one soon on a different gnu host,
Finally, we have a mailing list:
http://gnu.org.ve/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/powervr-devel
All are welcome but right now, the effort particularly needs people with
low level graphics experience to help with the reverse engineering. If
anyone here has such experience and is willing to help, I would
encourage you to join the list and make yourself known.
Bob
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Re: openphoenux review on mobilejournal.net
On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 20:50 +0100, francesco.dev...@mailoo.org wrote:
What makes me angry it's that the authors do not
get enough information nor they get a direct contact with the developers
if they not are owners of a GTA0X. The result is a bad article, they do
not even know what they're talking about, and they give to the people a
bad idea of the GTA04.
From my perspective, I don't know why anyone would assume that people
who write articles *ever* know what they're talking about. Most
articles are nonsense, written by people who earn a living producing
words and read by people who will never become aware of the absurdity of
what they read. Such is the nature of mass media; a vicious circle of
cultural degradation. Welcome to the our world :-)
Of course, we don't have to pay attention to those who spout nonsense..
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Supplies of new batteries (was: Re: is my GTA02 getting old?)
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:52:56 +0100, Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org wrote:
is a compatible
battery (with a coulomb counter) available?
I second this question. It will become increasingly important as the
years go on.
I notice there is a plethora of different batteries on eBay for every type
of laptop imaginable, seemingly all unbranded and coming from unknown
Chinese factories. I wonder how difficult it would be to find a
manufacturer who will produce new batteries for the GTA0{1,2,4}.
Mr Pulster, Mr Schaller have either of you looked into this by any chance?
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Re: Ubuntu / Firefox OS for Openmoko?
On Fri, 2013-01-11 at 20:43 +0100, Christoph Pulster wrote:
The hardware GTA04 is based on one person (Nikolaus), the software
QtMoko is based on one person (Radek). My daily cudos for both of them.
But I am afraid we really need a broader basis of manpower.
I think it's unfair to mention only Nikolaus and Radek. There are many
people working to push the GTA04 forward:
http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=history;f=fsodeviced/conf/GTA04;hb=HEAD
http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=meta-smartphone.git;a=history;f=meta-openmoko/conf/machine/om-gta04.conf;hb=HEAD
https://github.com/neilbrown/linux/commits/gta04/mainline/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3gta04.c
I don't think we necessarily need any more manpower. To say that is
to say: I want people to do things for me. Indeed, we all want 1000
programmers to start working on FSO and QtMoko so that our phones become
sweet bastions of freedom and coolness. Alas, there is only us.
It is worth remembering that a factor in attracting programmers is the
ratio between (1) how much effort we spend complaining about how few
programmers the are and trying to attract more, and (2) how much effort
we spend creating useful systems with a small number of programmers.
Paradoxically, a focus on the latter is much more likely to attract new
contributors.
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Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:16:36 GMT, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael
Spacefalcon) wrote:
It is also absolutely clear that distribution of this sources or
firmware will be illegal,
If you have chosen to live and accept citizenship in a country where
such things are illegal, I feel sorry for you. If you like, I can
give you a free immigrant/refugee visa to come to my country that has
no such repressive laws.
Which country is that?
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Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:02:03 GMT, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael
Spacefalcon) wrote:
Alex Samorukov m...@os2.kiev.ua wrote:
Which country is that?
dprk ? :)
Yes, I love it.
You moved from Canada to North Korea?
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Re: FreeTSM30/FreeCalypso project started
On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 16:16 +, Michael Spacefalcon wrote:
If you like, I can
give you a free immigrant/refugee visa to come to my country
On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 20:24 +, Michael Spacefalcon wrote:
Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote:
You moved from Canada to North Korea?
I don't live anywhere at all
Forgive me, I was confused when you wrote my country. I presumed you
meant the country where you lived.
Which country were you referring to when you said my country?
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Re: GSM Firmware+Wiki
On 2013-04-25 01:38, Paul Wise wrote:
I've offered to help
with sysadmin but he hasn't had time to give me access to the
servers.
I've contacted him multiple times on IRC and email last year and this
year but I never get a response.
This is a big problem :-/
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 20:22 +0200, Paul Wise wrote:
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Ben Wong wrote:
I wonder if OpenPhoenix has an opportunity now, with all those
frustrated would-be buyers out there.
Are the Ubuntu Edge specs (or something close) achievable by OpenPhoenix?
No. I think a better question is whether OpenPhoenix can achieve
production of *any* phone?
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:10 +0200, Paul Wise wrote:
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Bob Ham wrote:
No. I think a better question is whether OpenPhoenix can achieve
production of *any* phone?
Not currently in stock, but as I understand it, GTA04 exists and is a phone.
The GTA04 is a motherboard, not a phone.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:19 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
Well, there are (or were) complete phones based on GTA04 available to
buy from Golden Delicious, so yes, OpenPhoenux has already achieved
production of any phone.
The phones consisted of GTA04 motherboards inside second-hand GTA01/02
cases. These cases were produced by Openmoko, not OpenPhoenix.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 21:44 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
The phones consisted of GTA04 motherboards inside second-hand GTA01/02
cases. These cases were produced by Openmoko, not OpenPhoenix.
Producing new cases is a matter of enough money, not of capabilities...
The OpenPhoenix community doesn't have enough money so the answer to
the original question of whether it can produce *any* phone is: no.
I don't mean to belittle the community or detract from the activities of
those who are actually doing but I think it's harmful to operate with a
muddled view of the situation. The idea that it would be possible for
the community to produce a phone with the same kind of specs as the
phone that Canonical, with its billionaire owner, just tried and
*failed* to build, seems to me to be rooted in a view so detached from
reality as to be almost pathological. To even *ask* the question shows
that there is a problem.
There are limits on what the community can do. Engaging in
pie-in-the-sky fantasies isn't going to help.
Please allow me to address a question to the community as a whole: if
you can produce a free phone then why aren't you? Do it! What are you
*waiting* for?
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 23:20 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote:
On Thu 22 August 2013 21:44:13 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Producing new cases is a matter of enough money, not of capabilities...
As already suggested by me[1], you also could go the other way and adapt the
PCB shape (plus a few circuit addons like hw matrix kb) to fit into a widely
available convenient existing case, more convenient and available than
Openmoko shower-radio housing. Think N900 [2].
Nikolaus, could you release the source files for the GTA04 PCB so that
others can work on this?
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 23:30 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote:
If this Shuttleguy really been interested in
building a Edge , he'd simply DO it instead of starting nonsensical
crowdfunding.
Don't you see this is a marketing gag, nothing else?
No, I don't. It was indeed a wonderful marketing campaign for
Canonical's mobile efforts but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't
want the phone to be made.
We can speculate about why Shuttleworth was not prepared to invest his
own money in the project but that's all it is, speculation.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On 2013-08-23 07:26, openm...@pulster.de wrote:
the GTA04 is a ready-to-use OpenSource smartphone.
The GTA04 *is* out of production and no longer for sale. It *could* be
the motherboard in a ready-to-use smartphone but it *isn't*.
There are no other
reasons why it isnt available, just damn investment $$ are missing.
If money is the only problem then why is nobody running a fundraising
campaign? I don't think money is the only problem.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On 2013-08-23 09:38, joerg Reisenweber wrote:
On Fri 23 August 2013 10:35:38 Bob Ham wrote:
On 2013-08-23 07:26, openm...@pulster.de wrote:
The GTA04 *is* out of production and no longer for sale.
Says who?
Says Golden Delicious:
Note: we currently have no stock since we need to collect at least
200 orders so that we can produce in big enough batches.
-- First sentence on https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04
There are no other
reasons why it isnt available, just damn investment $$ are
missing.
If money is the only problem then why is nobody running a
fundraising
campaign? I don't think money is the only problem.
I think it's up to you to answer your own question, instead of
implicitly
accusing highly honored guys like Nikolaus and Christoph of not
telling the
truth.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I'm not accusing anybody of
hiding problems. I'm saying that there are problems other than money
which are preventing the successful production of a free phone. Those
other problems have been discussed openly on this list and others.
everybody (even you) can start a fundraiser.
Of course they *can*. But they're *not*. That's the point.
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Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:02, openm...@pulster.de wrote:
Its not out of Production, but production is stopped
Err..
What's the difference between out of Production and production is
stopped?
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Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:38, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 23.08.2013 um 12:10 schrieb Bob Ham:
What's the difference between out of Production and production is
stopped?
Compare with a train:
stopped: is at the railway station and waiting for a green light
I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04?
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Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote:
I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the
GTA04?
That was already mentioned; money for components being available.
The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to be
implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money
being available. How is that transition going to happen? What's going
to cause the green light to go on?
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Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On 2013-08-23 11:27, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 23.08.2013 um 13:18 schrieb Bob Ham:
On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote:
I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the
GTA04?
That was already mentioned; money for components being available.
The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to
be implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money
being available. How is that transition going to happen? What's
going to cause the green light to go on?
People deciding to spend some money instead of complaining that it is
too expensive.
What is going to cause people to decide that?
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Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 23.08.2013 um 15:45 schrieb Bob Ham:
On 2013-08-23 11:27, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 23.08.2013 um 13:18 schrieb Bob Ham:
On 2013-08-23 10:56, Paul Wise wrote:
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Bob Ham wrote:
I don't understand. What is the green light with respect to the GTA04?
That was already mentioned; money for components being available.
The fact that there is *no* money was mentioned. Here you seem to be
implying some kind of transition from there being no money to money being
available. How is that transition going to happen? What's going to
cause the green light to go on?
People deciding to spend some money instead of complaining that it is
too expensive.
What is going to cause people to decide that?
What do you think the reason is?
I can't see anything that people will cause people to make that
decision. This is why I'm wondering what cause *you* see. You said
you're waiting. What do you believe is going to happen? What are you
waiting *for*? What is going to occur that will cause people to decide
to spend money on the GTA04?
I can't see any reason. A train stopped at a disconnected signal light
waiting for it to go green, doesn't make any sense to me.
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Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 00:20 +0200, joerg Reisenweber wrote:
Can't you finally come up with some *suggestions* or - even
better - real actions that would help?
At present the community is beholden to a particular company which
produces something the community depends on. That company has a
monopoly on production within the community. It does not share the
source files for its work and does not allow others to contribute to
designs.
This is the same situation as a community that is beholden to a company
producing proprietary software. The GTA04 is like proprietary hardware.
We have schematics in a .pdf file but nothing else. There is no shared
repository containing the source files for the schematics or the PCB
designs. Nobody can commit design fixes. The community is not
iterating the GTA04 design. The community is not working together to
create a free phone. Instead, all we do is discuss and argue about one
company's product.
A lot of people have come up with various ideas for modifications to the
GTA04. Some of them simply require some soldering which is no problem.
However, some require a redesign of the board. To my recollection,
nobody has ever pointed out that this isn't possible unless Golden
Delicious do it. The fact that only Golden Delicious can do it is bad.
Despite describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware¹ and stating that the
aims of the community are for DIY hardware², Golden Delicious does not
release any source files for the hardware it produces. There is no
community of hardware hackers contributing to shared PCB designs.
I suggest that the community changes from consuming hardware designed
and built by a single controlling entity to producing one or more Open
Source Hardware³ phone designs which can be taken as a base, modified
and manufactured by any party. For example, a board design could be
used in the same fashion as the GTA04, as a replacement for GTA01/02
boards but could also be modified by the N900 community to provide an
updated board for their phone.
I suggest that Golden Delicious release the source files for the GTA04
board in order to assist this effort and act as a base for the first
community phone design.
¹ http://www.openphoenux.org/
² http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/community/2013-May/000324.html
³ http://www.ohanda.org/
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Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 09:56 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Why are you still a member of this community
I want freedom. I want a phone that runs 100% free software, including
any firmware for component devices and also including firmware running
on the baseband processor. I want the same freedom for the hardware.
The openmoko-community and openphoenux-community mailing lists are
places where I expect like-minded people will congregate.
and participating in this discussion?
Even though I believe the GTA04 product from Golden Delicious is not
viable, I don't expect it will be the last effort to produce a free
phone. Indeed, if Golden Delicious release the source files for the
board, the GTA04 design could form a base for the development of the
next effort. I hope this will happen.
I hope that by participating in the discussion I can convince others to
let go of the GTA04 product and embrace a broader, freer vision of a
community that produces its own phone designs collaboratively. I
believe this change will enable movement forward, bringing us closer to
viable products and ultimately closer to freedom.
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Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 11:21 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 24.08.2013 um 02:10 schrieb Bob Ham:
We have schematics in a .pdf file but nothing else.
Yes. And the PDF is the source.
I don't believe this is the case. I believe the PDF was compiled from
designs that came from other files. I don't believe your circuit
designs were written in the PDF language. If they came from other
files, the PDF is not the source, the other files are the source.
You can run OCR and convert it into any
format you like. And modify it as you like. What else do you expect? More
convenience?
It's not so much about convenience. Let me quote the GPL 2:
The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for
making modifications to it.
There is a reason for stipulating this. Having to convert a work into a
format suitable for making modifications represents a barrier. It's a
barrier to freedom. It can be abused.
Even disregarding this reasoning, let's assume that it *is* just about
convenience. Why is that bad? Why would you not want to help people
take the GTA04 design and create a derivative? Why would you want to
make it more difficult? Why are you reluctant to release the source
files?
high density PCB design needs a very specific
type of knowledge that isn't widely available.
The specialisation of the knowledge required to work on phone designs
means that those with the knowledge will likely have high demands on
their time. That means that one should aim to make it as easy as
possible for them to get involved in the community. That means removing
barriers like having to create new PCB designs from the PDF schematics.
That means releasing the source files for the existing designs.
Despite describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware¹ and stating that the
aims of the community are for DIY hardware², Golden Delicious does not
release any source files for the hardware it produces. There is no
community of hardware hackers contributing to shared PCB designs.
Because designing such a difficile and miniaturized device is more challenging
than the average hardware hacker is capable to do.
So let's foster a community of above-average hardware hackers who are up
to the challenge. Golden Delicious can help foster such a community by
making the source files for the GTA04 available.
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Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 16:12 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
But start on the green field (yes, as prepared by Openmoko) as we
have done.
Why? Why do you want people to start on the green field rather than
building on your work?
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Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 11:26 +, Bob Ham wrote:
Even disregarding this reasoning, let's assume that it *is* just about
convenience. Why is that bad? Why would you not want to help people
take the GTA04 design and create a derivative? Why would you want to
make it more difficult?
I answered your questions about why I am taking part in this discussion.
I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions about helping
others create derivatives of the GTA04.
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Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:32, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 24.08.2013 um 13:26 schrieb Bob Ham:
There is a reason for stipulating this. Having to convert a work
into a
format suitable for making modifications represents a barrier. It's
a
barrier to freedom. It can be abused.
I only see the convenience aspect.
You haven't addressed my question. I want to know why you want people
to start PCB designs from scratch rather than making use of your work.
Why do you think that convenience a bad thing?
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Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:41, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 24.08.2013 um 17:27 schrieb Bob Ham:
I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions about helping
others create derivatives of the GTA04.
I think i have done this several times (spread over several mails) in
the
past hours.
I see plenty of reasoning about why you think people should avoid
trying to create derivatives of the GTA04.
I see no reasoning about why, once a person has decided to create a
derivative, you want them to create PCB designs from scratch rather than
using your work as a base. This is the matter that my question is
concerned with.
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Re: Releasing GTA04 hardware source files (was: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3)
On 2013-08-24 18:53, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Only your mother is giving you convenience for free...
I find GNU to be overflowing with convenience.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Wed, 2013-10-02 at 23:15 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
It would have its own cost (in money and in size), but in the long run,
I hope the benefits of relying on standardized interfaces would make up
for it.
From what I can tell, Free Hardware projects don't benefit nearly enough
from each other's efforts. Not sure we have enough Sisyphus around to
keep them all alive.
I would note that the GTA04 is not a Free Hardware project.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu, 2013-10-03 at 21:32 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 03.10.2013 um 20:09 schrieb Bob Ham:
I would note that the GTA04 is not a Free Hardware project.
Yes that is correct. It is not Free Hardware in the strict FSF definition
I don't think FSF has a definition of Free Hardware. Possibly we're
ascribing different meanings to the phrase. I'm using Free Hardware
to refer to free or libre hardware with the four freedoms, as described
by the (unfortunately named) Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance:
http://www.ohanda.org/
All of them have been as open as it could be practically done at the moment
when some design decisions had to be made.
You've previously said that the reason you refuse to release the
hardware source files, making the device more open, is because you
expect money in return. Are you now saying restricting access to the
hardware source files is somehow a design decision?
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Fri, 2013-10-04 at 20:16 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 04.10.2013 um 19:48 schrieb Bob Ham:
I don't think FSF has a definition of Free Hardware. Possibly we're
ascribing different meanings to the phrase.
Yes they have one and even do a certification (which would not be
possible with a definition):
http://www.fsf.org/news/endorsement-criteria
http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Certification_criteria
They don't use the term Free Hardware to describe what they're
endorsing.
I'm using Free Hardware
to refer to free or libre hardware with the four freedoms, as described
by the (unfortunately named) Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance:
http://www.ohanda.org/
All of them have been as open as it could be practically done at the moment
when some design decisions had to be made.
You've previously said that the reason you refuse to release the
hardware source files, making the device more open, is because you
expect money in return. Are you now saying restricting access to the
hardware source files is somehow a design decision?
???
I already told you that the hardware source files are open and public.
The source files are not public. The only thing that is public is a PDF
file containing bitmap images generated from other (Eagle?) source
files. The other source files themselves are not available.
I don't understand how you can maintain that the source files are
public.
Just not in the format you would like to see them but you are free to
convert them.
You don't seem to understand that the difference in format is
critical. It is the difference that prevents the GTA04 being described
as free hardware.
By your logic, all binary software executables are open because the
format can be converted into assembler. While it may be true that one
can disassemble binaries and modify the resulting assembler, this is not
what we're referring to by the phrase free software.
Similarly, the GTA04 is not free hardware.
And by the way, I looked into your idea of scanning PCB schematics.
It's bogus. I tried to see whether any suitable software was available
but here's what I found instead:
there is no direct way to translate pure graphical data to an
intelligent schematic, EDA schematics contain a lot of intelligent
information that simply is not available on a sheet of paper
http://www.edaboard.com/thread8258.html
No, nothing like that exists. ... Such a tool would be difficult to
create, and impossible to realistically support considering the
multitude of ways even a single IC could be represented. ... In short,
it's unrealistic.
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/66432/any-research-to-turn-schematics-as-a-picture-into-a-simulation
Here I am referring to the typical discussion about binary blobs and
firmware drivers - because we decide(d) to use chips we can buy.
You're obviously using the phrase free hardware to mean hardware that
can run with entirely free software. This seems to be non-normal usage.
For example, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_Freedom_Day
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Neither the Openmoko, OpenPandora, Ubuntu Edge, GTA04 are
open hardware - and never were intended to be.
That isn't what your OpenPhoenux page says:
Open Hardware Devices.
Letux 2804 / GTA04 Smartphone
http://www.openphoenux.org/
You're also contradicting your own previous statements:
I see the role of GDC [Golden Delicious Computers] to provide future
open hardware but remain software agnostic
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-May/066835.html
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 09:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
I simply don't believe in the Free Hardware ideology.
This admission makes your announcement here seem deceitful:
we are happy that we can make an announcement to the Free and
Open Hardware Community, right in time for X-mas and New Year: We
have finally tested, understood and patched the bugs of the
first GTA04 sample board
http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-December/006585.html
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 13:34 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
You're nitpicking about different meanings of open and free.
This is hardly nitpicking. If I had known what Nikolaus's position was
back in 2010, I doubt I would ever have bought a GTA04. There seems to
be (1) the meaning that Nikolaus gives free hardware and open
hardware; and (2) the meaning everyone else gives free hardware and
open hardware.
It seems to me that Nikolaus has falsely advertised the GTA04, and is
continuing to do so.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 14:07 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
I can agree that the usage of free
hardware term may be a bit confusing.
Describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware on openphoenux.org is, I
believe, not just confusing but dishonest.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 17:17 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 05.10.2013 um 12:12 schrieb Bob Ham: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Neither the Openmoko, OpenPandora, Ubuntu Edge, GTA04 are open hardware - and never were intended to be. That isn't what your OpenPhoenux page says: You're also contradicting your own previous statements: This admission makes your announcement here seem deceitful: Hm, I wonder what you want to prove? I want you to stop describing the GTA04 as open hardware. You seem to be aware that there is a difference between what you describe as open hardware and what others describe as open hardware and yet you ignore this discrepancy and continue as if what you're saying is true because it accords with your own personal definition. I want to make it undeniably clear that describing the GTA04 as open hardware is wrong. On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: If I remember there was a printout of the ssl code on paper, exported as a book from the US and then typed in again by volunteers to found openssl. Was it non.open source? It was not open source. This issue has been discussed previously. The source must be in the form customarily used for making modifications to it. This is an important factor. From the GNU GPL 2: 'The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it' https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html From the Apache License 2.0: 'Source form shall mean the preferred form for making modifications' https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html From the MPL 2.0: '“Source Code Form” means the form of the work preferred for making modifications.' https://www.mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/ From the CDDL 1.0: '“Source Code” means (a) the common form of computer software code in which modifications are made and (b) associated documentation included in or with such code.' http://web.archive.org/web/20090305064954/http://www.sun.com/cddl/cddl.html If a software company refused access to their software's source code in electronic text form and only released it in paper form (or in the form of a bitmap image inside a PDF), that software would not be considered open source. The phrase that seems most appropriate for such software, I think, would be encumbered source. Wikipedia gives a fair description of open(/free) hardware: 'Open-source hardware consists of physical artifacts of technology designed and offered by the open design movement.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_hardware And of the open design movement, it says this: 'Open design is the development of physical products, machines and systems through use of publicly shared design information. ... The process is generally facilitated by the Internet and often performed without monetary compensation. The goals and philosophy are identical to that of the open-source movement, but are implemented for the development of physical products rather than software.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design The Hardware Freedom Day website states the following: 'Goals and philosophy of the Open Hardware movement are closely aligned with the ones of the Free Software movement.' http://www.hfday.org/open-hardware The free hardware and open hardware communities derive their ethos from free software and open-source software. Access to source files in the preferred format for making modifications is therefore an important requirement for free/open hardware just as it is for free/open software. The Open Source Hardware and Design Alliance have taken the four freedoms of the Free Software Definition and modified them to apply to free hardware. They stipulate the following in freedoms 1 and 3 of their criteria for use of the OHANDA label: 'Access to the *complete* design is precondition to this' http://www.ohanda.org/ (My emphasis) The requirement is made explicit by the Open Source Hardware Association which has the following in its Open Source Hardware Definition 1.0: 'The documentation must include design files in the preferred format for making changes, for example the native file format of a CAD program.' http://www.oshwa.org/definition/ The idea that a circuit schematic in bitmap form constitutes the source for open hardware is fallacious. Furthermore, continuing to quote Wikipedia on open design: Open design is a form of co-creation, where the final product is designed by the users, rather than an external stakeholder such as a private company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design What you're doing is nothing to do with open hardware. The idea that you can pop some schematic bitmaps in the back of your manual while refusing access to the source files, and then rightfully label your company's product as open hardware is fallacious. Please stop labelling your company's product as open hardware. -- Bob Ham r
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 20:10 +0200, Martin Jansa wrote:
On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 05:37:59PM +, Bob Ham wrote:
I want you to stop describing the GTA04 as open hardware. You seem to
be aware that there is a difference between what you describe as open
hardware and what others describe as open hardware and yet you ignore
this discrepancy and continue as if what you're saying is true because
it accords with your own personal definition.
I'm sorry but I think you're doing the same, just from the other side.
From this thread it's clear that different people understand open
hardware differently, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong or
dishonest.
I disagree. I've quoted a number of different bodies on their idea of
what constitutes open hardware and they all concur.
Meanwhile:
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
And for me any printout that I can read is open source.
Nikolaus goes by his own definitions, regardless of what is generally
accepted. We've even got people making up their own meaningless
phrases:
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 14:07 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
In my dictionary, it's definitely free platform.
The way I see it, on one hand there is a bunch of individuals on a
mailing list with their own ideas about what the phrase open hardware
should refer to, and on the other hand there are a number of
well-organised bodies with clear definitions which are not only in
accord with each other but with (1) the open hardware community that I
know and (2) the principles of the free software movement and the open
source community, the progenitors of those bodies.
==
open hardware isn't AFAIK any registered sticker or trade mark
with clearly defined meaning, so it's pity that different people
associate it with different meanings/freedoms, but that's not their
fault.
The people here seem to have their own meanings. Everybody else seems
to have a pretty consistent idea about what constitutes open hardware.
You're right though, there is no trade mark. I would hope that by
clearly demonstrating how Nikolaus's ideas conflict with the basic ideas
of the open hardware community, he will respect the fact that there is
an incompatibility and refrain from misrepresenting his product.
==
Your source code citations from licenses are nice, but license text is
the right place where you should find definition of what's meant by term
source code
The quotations from license are there as evidence of the principles of
the free software movement and the open source community. Licenses are
explicit manifestations of the ideas and motivations behind these
groups. If you want to find out what the open source community or the
free software movement believes, the licenses they create are the place
to go.
What we see when look at those expressions of principles is a common
theme of requiring source code to be in the preferred form for making
modifications. This idea has been inherited by the open hardware
community. The inheritance is expressed in the Open Source Hardware
Definition and elsewhere.
To me, those people who disagree are not part of the open hardware
community. They're part of some other community which does not share
the principles of the open design movement. And in fact, Nikolaus
admits as much:
On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 09:11 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
I simply don't believe in the Free Hardware ideology.
==
Your accusations sounds like if Nikolaus is using OHANDA clearly defined
label without fulfilling requirements defined by OHANDA.
Well, I'm not sure how you get that impression. It's not like it's a
matter of adherence to a collection of finely detailed criteria.
Nikolaus denies access to the source files for his hardware. It's not a
subtle conflict. It flies in the face of the open hardware movement.
To be honest, I'm dumbfounded that there can be any confusion over it.
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Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 08:42 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Can you agree on the following?
1. you are talking about open SOURCE hardware (which I call free hardware)
No. I've explicitly refrained from distinguishing between such labels
because I'm aware that they are not as well defined in the domain of
hardware as they are in the domain of software.
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Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Wed, 2013-10-16 at 20:03 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 16.10.2013 um 19:31 schrieb Timo Juhani Lindfors:
Balint Szente bal...@szentedwg.ro writes:
What is not clear for me is that can a software be FSF/OSI free but
illegal to use?
Free is a term only considering copyright. I.e. it is licenced under
copyleft.
This is incorrect. Copyleft and software freedom are different
concepts. For example, BSD code is free software but not copyleft. The
FSF explicitly describes the BSD license as a free software license:
'This is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license'
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OriginalBSD
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Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Wed, 2013-10-16 at 14:30 -0500, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
Afaik you can use it legally if you connect it directly to your own base
station.
The other approach would be to start a kickstarter/selfstarter to buy some
spectrum licenses
That's not really necessary; GSM development licenses are not expensive.
I understand in Germany a 12-month license costs around €130. In the UK
it is £50.
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Re: GTA04A5 / Letux 2804
On 2014-01-24 07:45, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote:
he wanted to use GTA02 motherboards as
wall decorations or somesuch - now THAT kind of waste should be
criminally punishable!
I find this a curious statement. I'm not sure how you can claim your
own micronation and yet argue that others should be criminally
punished for their behaviour outside your micronation. There appears to
be a conflict between your purported views on freedom and your view of
punishment.
It seems to me that if you truly believed in individual sovereignty to
the degree of having declared your own micronation, you would not be
offering an opinion on the criminality of others.
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GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline
Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste
time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the
board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the
power drain?
BTW: more support for that work from the community would speed up progress.
On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 09:57 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Looks like topic for a master or PhD thesis...
When you start working on the master or PhD thesis to resolve the power
drain, I'm sure you'll find the community will be more supportive
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Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
the kernel controls the power drain.
How has that been determined?
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Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham:
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
the kernel controls the power drain.
How has that been determined?
Please find the answer and tell us about the results.
This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that
the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion
was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the
kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the
kernel is working on the power drain.
You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When
you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless
phone board, the community will be more supportive.
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Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 21:32 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I am not asking you to publicly apologize for the 2 years of mental TORTURE you put me through They didn't put you through torture, you put yourself through it. You continue to do that now, in different ways. The person who you most need to apologise to is yourself. I wish you healing and wellness. Bob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 17:11 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: Why is your wellness dependant on a phone? Because I use one to stay in touch with the people who matter in my life What would be the consequences if you didn't have a mobile phone to do that? It is also a well-known fact that most free software developers derive great personal satisfaction from doing something that benefits a larger community True. However, there's a very big difference between deriving satisfaction from doing worthwhile work and being pathologically dependant on it. I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. It looks like for you, the work isn't done just for satisfaction, it looks like a need. On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 17:41 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I do not owe any apology to a bunch of sadists who got some kind of sexual gratification out of watching my life wither away (for a full 2 years!) How did your life wither away? What happened? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Wed, 2015-04-22 at 15:42 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: I disagree. The same pathological need still seems very much present. And the emphasis here is on the pathological. In your emails to this list, there is still a very strong strain of psychological disequilibrium and this is a bad thing, for the list, the wider community and for you. So what exactly do YOU seek to accomplish by deconstructing my motivations for working on the FreeCalypso project? As I said, perhaps I can help you to achieve some peace. When one person achieves some peace, we all benefit. Suppose you succeeded in convincing me to either drop the project or take it underground to where you'll never hear about it again - how would such a change benefit you or the wider community? My concern is not to convince you to drop the project or take it underground. I don't know where you got that idea from. However, an absence of your writings on this list would benefit me and the wider community in that in would elevate the environment to a more peaceful one. Let me pick out some of the individual key words which you've written recently and which I quoted in my last email: peasant unpaid only one hardship unprivileged nobody kidnap torture kill life-sacrifice hurt torture painful These words are not exactly uplifting. One doesn't need to be a psychiatrist to see that there some deep problems you're grappling with. You may not recognise or acknowledge those problems. You may not acknowledge that others can see the symptoms but we can. Your emails are a mix of technical content and symptoms of your personal psychological problems. The latter has a negative impact on the community. If your emails were technical content alone, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, free firmware in your phone won't actually bring you peace like you think it will. Because as soon as you got that phone, it would become clear that you're still bound by the proprietary firmware running on every GSM base station. And once you'd solved that problem, you'd go on to the next piece of proprietary firmware like the VGABIOS in your graphics card or the controller firmware on your hard disk. The phone is not the problem. The base station and laptop and hard disk are not the problem. The problem is within you, within your mind. You're not at peace. Unfortunately, there are no screws to tighten and no code to patch to fix your mind. On the other hand, you're saying that the only reason you need a mobile phone is to contact your loved ones. I don't understand why you can't use a land line with a firmware-less handset. I need *them* to be able to contact *me* freely while I roam around a rather large geographical area. Why? What is so important about needing a mobile phone for immediate contact? As I see it, the choices you had in the past were: 1) Let your family know the nearest landline you can be contacted on as you move around. 2) Use a phone with proprietary firmware. 3) Threaten murder. For some reason, you chose to threaten murder. Why? The fact that you're currently using a mobile phone with a proprietary firmware without threatening to murder people shows that there's some contradictions in what you're saying. No act of murder would free my Pirelli DP-L10 from its proprietary fw, How would murder have freed your Openmoko phone from its proprietary fw? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 21:28 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: Because I use one to stay in touch with the people who matter in my life What would be the consequences if you didn't have a mobile phone to do that? I consider this status quo to be a very poor state of affairs That doesn't sound like a particularly grave consequence. Feeling that something is a very poor state of affairs doesn't seem like motivation for threatening murder. True. However, there's a very big difference between deriving satisfaction from doing worthwhile work and being pathologically dependant on it. I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. It looks like for you, the work isn't done just for satisfaction, it looks like a need. The need I had at that time has been satisfied, hence there is nothing relevant to the present in need of discussion here. I disagree. The same pathological need still seems very much present. And the emphasis here is on the pathological. In your emails to this list, there is still a very strong strain of psychological disequilibrium and this is a bad thing, for the list, the wider community and for you. On the one hand you're saying that your phone work is so important that your life withered away for two years because of it, and that it justifies threatening murder. On the other hand, you're saying that the only reason you need a mobile phone is to contact your loved ones. I don't understand why you can't use a land line with a firmware-less handset. The fact that you're currently using a mobile phone with a proprietary firmware without threatening to murder people shows that there's some contradictions in what you're saying. Either you're full of shit, or you're not aware that there are contradictions. Assuming you're not full of shit, examining the contradictions and making them conscious can help to resolve the internal conflicts which give rise to your dysfunctional behaviour. Of course, if you are full of shit then there's a whole other set of internal conflicts to deal with. You asked me how you torture yourself now. I'm trying to answer that question. In doing so, it's possible that the dysfunctional content of your regular expositions on this list can be resolved and we can all live more peacefully, including yourself. I'll provide you with some examples so that you're aware of what is inappropriate. Some of these are quite innocuous statements by themselves but their inappropriate nature becomes clear when seen as part of a pathological pattern: On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 06:15 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: my old peasant mind it has occupied me on and off (unpaid volunteer time is naturally limited) for a year and a half now Unfortunately there is only one of me The amount that's been raised ... will certainly help relieve my and Shannon's current severe hardship On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 17:41 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: unprivileged persons like me nobodies like me there is no longer any need for me to kidnap, torture or kill anyone there is no more need to resort to life-sacrifice means On Sat, 2015-04-18 at 21:32 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: your former coworkers who badly hurt me the 2 years of mental TORTURE you put me through the painful 2 y long episode ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Tue, 2015-04-21 at 15:38 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I wish you healing and wellness. Those will happen automatically as soon as I have a phone in my purse that runs my own firmware. Why is your wellness dependant on a phone? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding campaign for cloning the GTA02
On Mon, 2015-04-06 at 05:07 +, Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: In the case of this elderly TI Calypso baseband there is not just one, but two free software projects working toward running fully free and fully functional firmware on the baseband: OsmocomBB and my own FreeCalypso. FreeCalypso isn't free firmware, it's leaked proprietary firmware. The user does not have the right to even run the firmware, at least within nation states whose laws respect copyright. This includes the United States and hence Long Beach, California, where you claim to be based in your Indiegogo campaign. What you claim to be free firmware is not. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sun, 2015-05-24 at 01:54 -0700, Brolin Empey wrote: Bob Ham wrote: I don't know any other free software developers who threaten to murder those who get in the way of their work. Hans Reiser? ;-) Hans Reiser murdered his wife who had left him, not someone who got in the way of his work. Your response is inappropriate and in extremely bad taste. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA04 bundle for sale
Hi all, I am offering a huge GTA04 bundle including a complete GTA04, a complete Neo 1973 (GTA01) kit and a virtual treasure trove of accessories :-) The GTA04 can run the latest 4.10 kernel[0]. Photos are here: http://settrans.net/~rah/gta04-sale/ - Golden Delicious GTA04 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM board - Golden Delicious GTA04 LCD module (attached to GTA04 board) - Golden Delicious GTA04 RS232 cable - OpenMoko Neo 1973 case, modified to fit GTA04 - OpenMoko Neo 1973 board with LCD attached (it has string around it to keep the battery in; I'll even throw in the string for free! ;-) - OpenMoko charger A10P1-05MP 5V 2.0A, USB mini B with swappable UK and European plugs (bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - FIC GTA-01 battery (barely holds charge) - FIC GTA-02 battery (good, bought new from Pulster.de in 2013) - OpenMoko neoprene phone case - OpenMoko big black plastic hacker box (this is possibly the hardest thing to let go of; it's a really nice box :-) - OpenMoko lanyard, unopened - 2x GTA01 debug boards with flexible flat cables - Bag of PCB offsets for one debug board - 2x Glede Torx T6 screwdrivers (one brand new and unopened) - 2x brand new USB A to USB mini B cables - Dunlop 73 guitar pick - Combination pen, stylus and LED light with metal case. Unfortunately the pocket clip is loose now and doesn't stay on any more. I can't comment on the light but the batteries are definitely drained :-) I'll include them though, so you can find replacements. - Zagg Invisible Shield "OpenMoko Condom" case protector (unused) I am looking to sell everything for £800 (GBP) plus postage or to exchange for bitcoins. I'm open to offers though. Kind regards, Bob [0] http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2017-February/007257.html PS, please excuse the cross-posting signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 bundle for sale
Hi again,
After some discussion with others, inspection of currency exchange
rates, and further ruminations on my desire to shift the kit, I have
decided to drop the asking price to £550 plus postage, or nearest offer.
Regards,
Bob
On 2017-02-22 21:20, Bob Ham wrote:
Hi all,
I am offering a huge GTA04 bundle including a complete GTA04, a
complete Neo 1973 (GTA01) kit and a virtual treasure trove of
accessories :-) The GTA04 can run the latest 4.10 kernel[0].
Photos are here: http://settrans.net/~rah/gta04-sale/
- Golden Delicious GTA04 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM board
- Golden Delicious GTA04 LCD module (attached to GTA04 board)
- Golden Delicious GTA04 RS232 cable
- OpenMoko Neo 1973 case, modified to fit GTA04
- OpenMoko Neo 1973 board with LCD attached (it has string around it
to keep the battery in; I'll even throw in the string for free! ;-)
- OpenMoko charger A10P1-05MP 5V 2.0A, USB mini B with swappable UK
and European plugs (bought new from Pulster.de in 2013)
- FIC GTA-01 battery (barely holds charge)
- FIC GTA-02 battery (good, bought new from Pulster.de in 2013)
- OpenMoko neoprene phone case
- OpenMoko big black plastic hacker box (this is possibly the hardest
thing to let go of; it's a really nice box :-)
- OpenMoko lanyard, unopened
- 2x GTA01 debug boards with flexible flat cables
- Bag of PCB offsets for one debug board
- 2x Glede Torx T6 screwdrivers (one brand new and unopened)
- 2x brand new USB A to USB mini B cables
- Dunlop 73 guitar pick
- Combination pen, stylus and LED light with metal case.
Unfortunately the pocket clip is loose now and doesn't stay on any
more. I can't comment on the light but the batteries are definitely
drained :-) I'll include them though, so you can find
replacements.
- Zagg Invisible Shield "OpenMoko Condom" case protector (unused)
I am looking to sell everything for £800 (GBP) plus postage or to
exchange for bitcoins. I'm open to offers though.
Kind regards,
Bob
[0]
http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2017-February/007257.html
PS, please excuse the cross-posting
--
Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net>
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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Re: moko13 firmware
On 2017-10-12 17:42, Mychaela Falconia wrote:
Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net> wrote:
then
the FreeCalypso firmware is not based on OM's historical
firmwares.
Therefore, the statement regarding the recently released moko13
firmware update was not false.
The person I was refuting did not say that the new fw is not based on
OM's historical fw, he said that it is not based on "the original
licensed firmware for Openmoko devices". A reasonable interpretation
of that "original licensed fw" phrase is "firmware which TI licensed
to OM"
A reasonable interpretation of this situation is that your reasonable
interpretation of the words of the person you were refuting, is a
misinterpretation. That is, you misunderstood what they meant. It's
not a big deal.
--
Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net>
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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Re: moko13 firmware
On 2017-10-10 21:16, Mychaela Falconia wrote:
On Tue Aug 29 01:05:29 UTC 2017 Joerg Reisenweber wrote regarding the
recently released moko13 firmware update:
Please carefully note that this update is not based on the original
licensed
firmware for Openmoko devices,
This statement is false, and the poster knows it. Both OM's
historical
firmwares and the current FreeCalypso ones are based on the same
20070608 base code delivery from TI
If
the FreeCalypso firmware is based on the 20070608 base code from TI
and
OM's historical firmwares are based on the 20070608 base code from TI
then
the FreeCalypso firmware is not based on OM's historical firmwares.
Therefore, the statement regarding the recently released moko13
firmware update was not false.
--
Bob Ham <r...@settrans.net>
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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