Re: Nokia N9 and Meego

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Xavier Cremaschi
 wrote:
> Hi folks,
> is there anyone here following the Nokia N9, the new Nokia's phone with
> Meego ? What exactly is free-as-in-speech in this one ?

While not exactly the N9, I have the developer edition, the Nokia N950.

It's open-ish. It has a security framework and disallows all sorts of
stuff (root is limited, etc), but Nokia do allow you to flash your own
custom kernel, as well as the community edition of Meego should you
wish. There's a whole thread going on about it at
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575

It's definitely more closed than the N900 out the box, however.

I've heard it's a similar situation on the N9.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: High Resolution Openmoko logo

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
>  > Sean Moss-Pultz ha scritto:
>  >> Martin wrote:
>  >>> Hi All,
>  >>>
>  >>> Does anyone have a high resolution Openmoko logo that I can use asa
>  >>> screen background?
>  >>>
>  >>> Ideally 2560 x 1600 (!)
>  >>
>  >> EPS files are here:
>  >>
>  >>   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy#Logo_Standards
>  >>
>  >> Sean
>  >>
>  >> ___
>  >> OpenMoko community mailing list
>  >> community@lists.openmoko.org
>  >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  >>
>  > Reading that i've noticed that Openmoko is still OpenMoko, so someone
>  > should fix the middle uppercase M.
>  > It's just an observation eh, no flame or anything bad in my mind!
>
>  Thanks for catching this! I will ask our designers to correct this ASAP.
Just on the subject of 'OpenMoko' vs 'Openmoko', I assume we should
change the former to the latter whenever we see a reference to it on
the wiki, or are there cases where 'OpenMoko' is still valid?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: GSoC 2008

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Stefan Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello.
>
>
>  On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 19:02, Niluge KiWi wrote:
>  >
>  > I'm interested in the accelerometers features [1]: Recognising gestures
>  > is a really important part of the interface between the user and the
>  > phone.
>
>  Seems this ideas gets the interest of a lot people. Nice. :)
>
>  But as we only can choice one of them for this application, you should
>  be prepared for other applications, too.
>
>
>  > With the two accelerometers in the FreeRunner, I think we can recognise
>  > lots of gestures, not only simple ones like a "click" (which is already
>  > recognised by the accelerometers used in the FreeRunner). The main
>  > difficulty is probably to extract the useful data from the gestures
>  > noise : calibration may take time. The goal is to have an almost
>  > pre-calibrated library (an idea from the wish-list in the Wiki is to
>  > allow the user to record its own gestures, but I think it's not easy to
>  > do it simple for the end-user).
>
>  Letting the user add new gestures is a key feature IMHO. Also letting
>  them combine different gestures to new ones. We should make it easy
>  for people beaing creative with this. That's where innovation can
>  start. :)
>
>  If we can have a preset of already known gestures shipped with the
>  device, great.
>
>
>  > I'm also interested in working in the ambient noise detection in second
>  > choice.
>
>  Also interesting. What I never understand completely is what kind of
>  cool stuff we can do with this. I mean detecting the ambient volume
>  level and adjust the ringing, etc is nice, but can we do more with it?
>  Fancy things like detect if we are in a car or plane and react
>  accordingly?
Maybe the GPS would be better suited to that...
Speed below 30km/h = walking / running
Speed above 40km/h and below 240km/h = driving
Speed above 600km/h = plane.

Naturally however there should be an option to override this :)
Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[Federico Lorenzi]

I was just about to ask, what would happen if I enabled 1A charging
when the Freerunner was plugged into a normal USB port? AFAIK some
devices do draw more then spec (USB laptop hdds come to mind), and
these seem to work fine.

Cheers
Federico

On 3/27/08, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:58 PM, joerg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then
> enables 1A
> >  instead of 100/500mA USB-standard.
> >  You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC.
> >
>
> This is possible via userspace with Bobby's application.
> (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script).
>
> However, the flaw to this is that it will force fast charge even if
> the charger isn't capable and hints that this could be... bad. :)
>
> For the record, it APPEARS that with the Python application, the iGo
> works just fine as a charger.
>
> -Kevin
>
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Re: Accelerometer brainstorming

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You folks are freaking me out.  Outside of tracking people, any other
>  > ideas for why you'd want this?
>
>
>  reality-based games.
>
>  pathfinding.
>
>  picnics.
>
>  parties in the desert.  etc.
>
The cool factor?

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Re: support win mobile

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Lee wrote:
>  > Dear Community,
>  >
>  > A decision has been made _today_ that Openmoko is going to support
>  > Windows mobile.  We, the distribution team, want to provide our
>  > customers the maximum freedom in choosing whatever platform they want,
>  > even the close source ones.  We will make necessary modifications to
>  > wine, thus enable win mobile on neo.
>  >
>  > One specific Openmoko hardware is going to support Windows mobile.
>  > It's the Neo Pocky.  A prototype has been made and placed in our
>  > meeting room for quite a while.  Please check this url for intro and
>  > photos:
>  >
>  > http://walkingice.twbbs.org/blog/?p=336
>
>  Hmmm, from the picture, it looks like the purfect pet to run Windows on.
I can haz win mobile phone pls?
http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/View.aspx?ciid=880127

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: OpenMoko Presentation in London

[Federico Lorenzi]

You lucky people in Europe / America get to have all the fun! I don't
suppose there are any plans for a trip to South Africa :)

Cheers
Federico

On 4/2/08, john <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sounds like a good evening! I will try and attend.
>
> John.
>
> On 02/04/2008, Thomas Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  UKUUG is hosting a talk by Ole Tange about OpenMoko next week in London
> >  (9th April). I'm planning to go along and take the latest GTA02
> >  (FreeRunner) prototype if anyone is interested in seeing it in action.
> >  I'll probably also stick around afterwards to chat and grab some dinner.
> >
> >  More details here: http://www.ukuug.org/events/openmoko/
> >
> >  Regards,
> >
> >  Thomas
> >
> >  --
> >  OpenedHand Ltd.
> >
> >  Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road /
> >  Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559
> >
> >  Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/
> >  
> >
> >
> >  ___
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> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
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Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)

[Federico Lorenzi]

 Reply Header 
Subject:Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)
Author: herve couvelard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   03rd April 2008 2:21 pm


> what if you become part of openmoko?  Just sign some kind of work
> contract (like other freelancers had and still have with openmoko),
> but with only USD 1  in return for your work, adding a clause that you
> keep the copyright on your work?
> 
> This way you are legally part of openmoko, have access to the docs, and
> can work on the code.

I don't think it's fair. the world of free software should be a world of 
truthfulness and this "way" is not. They don't want their specs to run 
out the world, so let's keep these specs on the shelve.

Let's the 'market' decide :

- If it come a chip with better package [hard+spec] for gta03, too bad 
for Glamo and they will not be in gta03.
- if the users don't like freerunner because there is no cool 3D stuff, 
freerunner won't be sold that much and they wont sell to much chips.

the long term war vs closed sources specs is not to use them : no specs, 
no cool feature, bad product, product gonna die.

it is irrelevant to spare time to develop driver for a product when the 
owner don't want a driver to be develop. Let's concentrate on another 
open field, ready to switch to a more open chips

I bet if you could name such a device, they would have no problem in using it 
for future products. 


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Federico Lorenzi]

Lets not forget, you should be able to download the server software too, and 
run it on your own server :)

/me points to the GPS location sharing project and thinks it could suite the 
task with authentication.

Cheers,
Federico

 Reply Header 
Subject:Re: Loosing your moko
Author: "Diego Fdez." Durán <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   03rd April 2008 9:00 pm

On jue, 2008-04-03 at 18:30 +0200, Michele Renda wrote:
> Some days ago I was thinking something about this.
> 
> My idea was this:
> 
> 1. An application to install (who want) on openmoko. It is running as a 
> deamon. Configure very simple like username, password, server.
> 2. If it is running, check if there is connection. If yes, it send his 
> mac and gps coordinates to a server, that can be hosted to openmoko.org

Using this approximation the centralised server could be used to many
more things:
 Ex. Measure the distance between two FreeRunners, so you can find a
friend in a party :) (In the centralised server at openmoko.org you can
set who can see you location). 

> 3. every person can access to a web application, on openmoko.org where a 
> person can set the stealt allarm.
>  It there is the stealt allarm, openmoko.org will keep all the gps 
> position received every time that the freerunner is online.
>  else if clean all the position after 7 day (I think is a reasonable 
> time a person will know if a phone was stealt)
> 4. If a person didn't gave a stealt allarm, the person can not to access 
> to position logs (to avoid privacy violation)
> 
> It can run because who steal a phone, usually he can sell. And an 
> openmoko phone is very suitable to go online, so if someone go online, 
> he will send as soon info about his position.
> 
> Is possible to think that it will send the inserted sim number or s/n.
> 
> This is my idea
> 
> 
> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> > Hi there!
> >
> > I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen...
> >
> > I got the following idea:
> > If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a 
> > special keyword/passphrase to your moko.
> > It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a 
> > server. So you can see it's position.
> >
> > cheers
> > Sebastian
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 
> 
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-- 
Diego Fdez. Durán <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://www.goedi.net
GPG : 925C 9A21 7A11 3B13 6E43 50DB F579 D119 90D2 66BB


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Federico Lorenzi]

One of the really cool ideas is the bluetooth one as mentioned before.
You can pick up a cheap bluetooth headset for next to nothing, and all
you do is carry it around with you. When / if the neo detects it is
out of range / past a specific RSSI, then it will start making noise.
Not necessarily screaming 'I AM BEING STOLEN' but maybe play a song at
full volume and start vibrating like crazy. You could also have it so
if it goes past a specific RSSI it sends a message to the headset, to
be discrete :)

Cheers,
Federico

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't want to say this is the solution for all the problems:
>
>
> > As cool as all the solutions sound, we have to think of some
> > problems/implications:
> > 1) What happens if the sim gets changed?
> >
> >
>  It continue to run, because the program is not sim related. Whe it see a
> tcp/ip connection it send a data packet to openmoko serve.
>  The sim credential is used only to identify who use the phone.
>
>
> > 2) What happens if the phone gets flashed?
> >
> >
>  To this, I think we can do nothing. I hope it is sold without to be
> flashed. Freerunner is not a so common phone for now.
>
>
> > 3) What's with my data (stored e-mail passwords, wifi-passwods, web
> > history, session cookies, e-mails, and so on)?
> >
> >
>  Is possible to implement a system to get all these data to the server (one
> time it is allarmed) and to delete the phone copy.
>
>
> > 4) What if I only loose the phone?
> >
> >
>  You can access to openmoko server without make a stealt alarm, but only a
> lose allarm
>
>
> > 5) What if I lend the phone to a friend? Do I have to follow a
> > two-hour setup procedure to avoid my phone calling the police?
> >
> >
> >
>  Is forbidden to call policy with an automatic system
>
>
>
> > There are many solutions, but each one has it's flaws. The idea that
> > the phone reports back in some way is pretty cool: at each sim change,
> > send an sms to a preconfigured number, saying "Hi, i'm name, this is
> > my new number". A good utility for keeping your buddies up to date,
> > and for having always the newest number. another good idea is to have
> > configure the phone to play some sort of alarm and encrypt the files
> > (but still allowing access to the phone, so that the thief keeps on
> > using it) when it's more then.. 2 meters away from a configured
> > bluetooth device (your headset/bluetooth keyboard/whatever). An
> > intresting idea is to trace the gps position each minute, store them,
> > and send a log per e-mail as soon as a connection is possible (open
> > wifi, gprs, logged in into wifi, ..). Also a program that sends to all
> > bluetooth devices it reaches wich accept it something like "Help Me!
> > I'm a stolen phone. I belong to $name, $adress. My actual phone number
> > is $number, please contact the police". One out of many people maybe
> > will contact the police. Also the client/server setup is an intresting
> > idea, allowing one to install its own server, and sending coordinates
> > and phone number in periodical intervals. Maybe one could even make a
> > buisness providing this client/server setup.
> > And if the card is taken out, and the phone flashed? Well.. if the
> > phone is already shut down, you've lost your phone. The only
> > possibility would be to have some sort of trackback of the serial
> > numbers of all flashed devices.. but the security and privacy
> > implications of this would be too great..
> >
> > Just my two cents
> >
> >
> >
>  Yes, I think your ideas are good!
>
>
>
>
>
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Any updates on the PVT status?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hello,
Just wondering, is there any news regarding the status of the PVT
runs? Will a new design be needed / is the current one good for mass
production / minor tweaks needed / whatever?

Cheers,
Federico

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Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?

[Federico Lorenzi]

First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you
_think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner

[1] http://blog.automated.it/2008/04/07/is-3g-an-important-feature/

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?

[Federico Lorenzi]

I think you should reply and apologize for the double post too :p

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 07 April 2008 16:46, Andy Powell wrote:
>  > On Monday 07 April 2008 16:27, Brad Midgley wrote:
>  > > Andy
>  > >
>  > > >  1. Yes.
>  > > >  2. No and I kill kittens.
>  > >
>  > > yes, that's the kind of influence we need. Do you know about push
>  > > polling? You would need to load the question too.
>  > >
>  > > The radiobuttons on the right didn't work but those in the middle
>  > > column did. My vote seems to have counted, and no, I'm not from
>  > > Florida.
>  >
>  > Shame, we could have had "pregnant Brad's" ;)
>  >
>  > Andy
>
>  Apologies for the '
>
>
>
>  Andy
>
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GTA02 USB Power (WAS: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hmm, thats very cool indeed, although [1] and the original
announcement of it do say 100ma. I guess  I'll go out and edit them

Cheers,
Federico

[1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  Somebody in the thread at some point said:
>
>  | Don't you mean 100ma, or has the converter been upgraded? In any case
>  | running a device that draws 500ma off a 1200mah battery...
>
>  I never heard about a 100mA proposal: the converter in GTA02 is not only
>  500mA-capable but is configured for 500mA limit with a 14K resistor on
>  the SET pin.
>
>  http://www.analogictech.com/products/ProductDisplay.aspx?ProductID=192
>  http://www.analogictech.com/products/digitalfiles/AAT1275.pdf
>
>  For current consumption, it will be pretty variable on that device.  If
>  you transmit it will do its worst, if it receives it might not be too
>  bad at all.  Transmit will be pretty low duty cycle in normal use.
>
>
>  - -Andy
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
>  iEYEARECAAYFAkf/NWgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrDCACeKBv2HEPt4tEvysGf1IFdcFOa
>  RgUAoIaQI6ftXCR5uMtmfBsgKiF34Mgj
>  =syZb
>  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>

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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Don't you mean 100ma, or has the converter been upgraded? In any case running a 
device that draws 500ma off a 1200mah battery...

Cheers,
Federico
--
Mail sent from a SE P990

 Reply Header 
Subject:Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, 
GTA03?
Author: Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11th April 2008 9:33 am

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| Anyways, I guess that for GTA02 you could always get one of those usb-3g
| modems and use it. The problem will probably be the usual where to get
| linux drivers for something like that.

The one I got is well supported under Linux, it presents as two ttyUSB
and one Mass Storage class device.  wvdial with a canned config just
worked on it.

http://www.three.co.uk/personal/mobiles_/discover.omp?CID=1193835363623

In fact AFAIK this device should work OK on a GTA02 in host mode, if it
doesn't exceed the 500mA limit on there.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkf/L1cACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqOhQCghWREGS2rXOlHhEJbQfmldLx0
B2cAnj+1xxFVP1082Ndug5hIWaS5QpUt
=zI1/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: next costumers location

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:10 AM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
>
>
> > What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you
> live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to
> buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded.
> > Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual
> name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)...
> > So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost
> of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price.
> >
>
>  I agree, btw I think that it will be cheaper also if on a city we can't
> group 10 people, simply we'll order on the "most requested city", and from
> there we'll ship to other buyers... Standard shipping in Italy should be
> just 8€ more: that's definitely lower than 30$ :P...
... Not for long!

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Re: PVT Update.

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:02 PM, NeoSleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:47:38 +0200, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
>
>
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  > steve wrote:
>
>  >> 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on
>
>  > after
>
>  >> this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while.
>
>  >> Don't ask me what "a while" is. I'll talk about the software release
>
>  >> late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release
>
>  > and
>
>  >> what will come later.
>
>  >
>
>  > This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for "release of
>
>  > software"? Are you developing a new release of the software on "closed
>
>  > doors" and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about
>
>  > testing kernel and other low-level softwares?
>
>  >
>
>
>
>  I guess he's speaking about the factory software ;) Not the neo one.
Hmm, I interpreted it as the (final) Openmoko firmware that would be
flashed onto the device at manufacturing?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Charger?

[Federico Lorenzi]

I propose it asks "do you care about your charger? yes/no". But more
seriously, is there a wall USB charger out there not rated to atleast
500ma? AlI of mine say they are rated until 2A. How about start off in
100ma mode and try and negotiate with a host. If it fails, after 30
seconds go into 500ma mode.

My 2 ZA cents (about $0.003)

On 4/13/08, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marcus Bauer wrote:
> > So essentially the Neo asks "hey, can I have 500mA?" and there is no
> > answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB
> > standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you "hey guy, there is
> > some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more
> > anyway?" - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one
> > from Apple or one from eBay.
>
> Well, and if I've no idea of what's doing my charger (and most of users
> don't know it) what shall I answer!?
>
> --
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
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Re: PVT Update.

[Federico Lorenzi]

Maybe if we send Steve a blender... :)

On 4/15/08, Steven Le Roux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Mark Arvidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, but will it blend?
> >
>
> Ahah :)
>
> for those who didn't get it... : http://www.willitblend.com/
>
>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
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> Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Will Freerunner have DUN support?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Things get way more interesting with the FreeRunner however. Don't
have a Wireless network card? Well...

You get the idea :)
Cheers,
Federico

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It should be possible over GPRS
>
>
>
>  On 4/17/08, Philip M. White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Hi, all.  Like many others, I am eagerly awaiting the release of
>  > Freerunner.  A showstopper, however, would be if Freerunner could not
>  > support Dial-Up Networking.
>  >
>  > Right now I have a Samsung SGH-T509 phone that allows me to tether my
>  > laptop to it over a proprietary serial-USB or a Bluetooth connection.
>  > Once I physically connect the phone to my laptop, the phone appears as a
>  > serial dial-up modem.  Then it's a simple matter of "dialing" a special
>  > number that T-Mobile provides me with, and I get an IP address.
>  >
>  > Does Freerunner's firmware/software support this feature?
>  >
>  > --
>  > Philip
>  >
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>
>
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>
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Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework

[Federico Lorenzi]

Wow, oh no. That means if I use the LEDs (assuming the use 3v or so) I
will use 50ma. How long exactly do you plan on keeping your LEDs on
for? Quite frankly I _don't_ care about this, and neither do most
people, because the LEDs aren't exactly a deal breaking feature.

Cheers,
Federico

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 3:57 AM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to say, I'm baffled by that sentiment. GTA02v5 is fully
>  functional, the only "problem" is that it's not as efficient as it
>  could be, just like every other product on the planet.
>
>  For those saying "wait another month" I've got a different arguement -
>  let's NOT hire people to make the changes, purchase the equipment
>  needed to do it. If a missing transistor is really upsetting someone
>  that much, the open nature of Openmoko works in your favor because you
>  can wait until the units you consider "defective" are sold out. I, for
>  one, don't want to pay the costs (and I will, if Openmoko decides to
>  wait and add the transistor for goodwill) that will be incurred and
>  spread over the rest of the product line. I'm QUITE happy to take a v5
>  and go along on my merry way.
>
>  It is quite possible to make your statement by NOT purchasing a v5
>  unit and waiting for a v6. Choosing to wait yourself, without passing
>  the delay and costs onto everyone else is the most ethical, polite way
>  to solve the problem.
>
>  -Kevin
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Steven Le Roux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I totally agree with you.
>  >
>  > I understand everybody is happy to see the neo coming, but don't forget the
>  > goal :) : to provides the best free phones.
>  >
>  > It wouldn't be pleasant for us to by a phone, knowing there is a known 
> issue
>  > with optimisation of  power consumption and LED stuff..
>  >
>  > I understand the rush ;) but we can wait...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > OpenMoko team:
>  > >
>  > > It's crazy to consider shipping the GTA02v5 without the rework
>  > > to solve the current leakage issue.
>  > >
>  > > Yes, people are REALLY anxious to get this phone. But shipping
>  > > a few thousand of units that do not meet spec on standby time
>  > > is a Bad Idea.
>  > >
>  > > pull up your socks and do the rework
>  > > if that delays launch by 30 days so be it.
>  > > besides the firmware will be better by then as well. ;)
>  > >
>  > > -ron jeffries.
>  > >
>  > > CONTEXT:
>  > > -- Forwarded message --
>  > > From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"
>  > 
>  > > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:30:59 -0700
>  > > Subject: Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future
>  > Button and LED software spec)
>  > > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
>  > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > > It sounds to me as the problem is easy for those of us that knows a
>  > little
>  > > > electronics. If I get one that leaks current, I will start soldering!
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Does anybody know if the fix Werner is talking about, will be done for
>  > all
>  > > > GTA02v5 PCB's? If it really will be a fix for it, it will not be any
>  > problem
>  > > > at all.
>  > >
>  > > Yes maybe it can be fixed.  But is the fix documented yet?
>  > >
>  > > Another way to look at it: if the fix can be done without a PCB
>  > > change, then why not get the factory to do the rework (swapping
>  > > transistors or whatever) before they are shipped?  How much would it
>  > > cost to get that done in China?
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Ron K. Jeffries
>  > > http://blog.eronj.com
>  > > http://twitter.com/RonKJeffries
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > ___
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>  > > community@lists.openmoko.org
>  > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Steven Le Roux
>  > Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > ___
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>  >
>  >
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Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide

[Federico Lorenzi]

Just wondering, everyone has asked about using GTA01's debug board
with GTA02, what about the other way around?

Cheers,
Federico

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Alexey Feldgendler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your
> feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think
> should be included.
> >
>
>  Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the
> battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones.
> It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if
> so, it should be mentioned. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be
> replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? However, these
> clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the
> hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly
> remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone.
>
>  The text mentins "provided" accessories several times. However, the next
> deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them.
>
>  Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and
> how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what
> happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated.
>
>  Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the
> prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux.
>
>  Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists
> on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But
> this isn't a problem of this guide.
>
>  Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not
> have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) and later
> unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources.
>
>
>  --
>  Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com
>
>
>
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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good question. I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Roh, do you recall?
Are you referring to changing using different current draws? IIRC,
someone was tweaking uboot because it wasn't drawing the full 100ma,
only 20 or so, and managed to change some things.

Cheers,
Federico

>  Remember, though, that the charging is all under software control, so you
> can set this in software and in fact there are apps to do just this. The
> hardware only provides automatic detection.
>
>  Michael
>
>
>
>  Ortwin Regel wrote:
>
> > That's also something I'd like to know as my Minty Boost supposedly
> > does up to ~250 mA and I'd like to use that much if possible.
> > The Neo 1973 doesn't have the necessary hardware to detect chargers,
> > though, or does it?
> >
> > Ortwin
> >
> > On 4/19/08, Hans L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Great summary Michael, and a good discussion.  It would be nice to see
> > > the ability to support other fast chargers in the future.  That is one
> > > of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single
> > > company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own
> > > specific charger which is incompatible with anything else.
> > >
> > > Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > >
> > > >  In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA,
> and
> > > >
> > > 1A.
> > >
> > > Just to be absolutely clear, are these 3 rates hardwired into the
> > > circuitry?  Or might it be possible in the future to support(through
> > > only software changes) some charger that has for example a max rating
> > > of 750mA, and get the maximum output from it.
> > > The discussion up to this point seems to indicate that the best that
> > > could be done with this theoretical charger would be 500mA.  I suppose
> > > it doesn't make a huge difference, but something I'd like to know for
> > > sure.
> > >
> > > - Hans Loeblich
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
>
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Re: 99

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hmm, isn't the dollar price just an estimation?

Cheers,
Federico

On 4/21/08, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> steve ha scritto:
> > I'll gladly put the price back to $650 which was the first price we
> > released.
>
> LOL... BTW for me you can also put the price at 398 for staying a little
> more far from 399... :P
>
> --
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

[Federico Lorenzi]

Just from looking at photos, it seems that 02's screen is a lot less
reflective then 01?

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!
>
>
>  Kosa
>
>  - Un mundo mejor es posible -
>
>  Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
>
>
> > The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
> > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
> > To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
> > Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
> >
> > Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
> just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
> >
> > http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
> >
> > If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
> this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
> assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
> samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
> download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
> create what you want.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
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Re: (no subject)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Me too, very insightful.

On 4/23/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/23/08, Denis Shulyaka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 2008/4/23, Casey G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >
> > >  ___
> > >  Openmoko community mailing list
> > >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> > >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
> I agree:)
> --
> Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
> http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
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Re: Youtube Video Playback on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner?)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Thats my project, btw. My biggest question is how decent the hardware
scaling is. Could it scale 160x128 to fullscreen?

Cheers,
Federico

On 4/25/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:38:24 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > i can say now - 320x240 mpeg4 video with mplayer using xvideo on the
> gta02
> > > even can't play at 30fps. i was wrong with my guess. it is dropping 25%
> of
> > > the frames. so as such actually i correct this. i was too optimistic.
> you
> > > can more likely manage 20fps @ 320x240. this is mpeg4 - so mpeg1 and 2
> may
> > > be better as they are simpler codecs. do remember when i say resolution
> - i
> > > mean the video itself. the hardware can SCALE it to fill the screen, but
> > > this is taking 320x240 video and scaling it up (adding blur) so of
> course
> > > the quality isn't that good. remember too that color information is half
> > > that resolution in each dimension again (160x120 - though depends on
> codec).
> >
> > Well, I was thinking to youtube videos streaming... Since it will be
> > impossible to see them in embedded browser (without local javascript
> > hacks), I guess that we could use an application (if I'm not wrong
> > someone is developing it on projects.openmoko.org) that fetches and
> > plays (on streaming too) the videos in other formats supported by
> > youtube (you can test them using youtube-dl -f   [1])
> >
> > The formats (fmt) that should work with no problems are:
> >   * 13: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3gpp file so H.263 video and AMR Narrowband audio
> >   * 15: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mp4 file with MPEG4 video and AAC audio
>
> these will work - or should. just a matter of enough software in userspace.
>
> > Another format that maybe works on streaming (if I've not misunderstood
> > what has been stated) is
> >   * 5: [EMAIL PROTECTED] flv file
>
> no - not going to work. 21fps at best. :(
>
> > Maybe too low, but... I think that actually it's the best way quality we
> > can get without rencoding it locally or simply without using a 3rd party
> > server doing this work for us "on the fly".
> >
> > [1] http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/
> >
> > --
> > Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> > http://www.3v1n0.net/
> >
> >
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>
> --
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Re: Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)

[Federico Lorenzi]

On 4/25/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The Freerunner will be replacing a Sony Ericsson P990i
> >  here - now
> > THAT'S a phone which could barely be more ugly, but nevertheless it sold
> > well on its features (and besides, ugliness is STILL only an opinion).

Not to mention that phone is a piece of crap, I'm sending this mail
from one now. Sure, the keyboard is cool, and so is 3G, but the fact
that I can't really multitask, like run a web browser and another app
at the same time, kills it. The FreeRunner shouldnt have this problem
though, with 128mb of RAM.
>
> I could not agree more:)
> --
> Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
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Re: Youtube Video Playback on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner?)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Just thinking out loud here, as I probably have no clue what I'm
speaking about, but what about something like XDamage, that only
updates the areas of the screen that have changed?

Cheers,
Federico

On 4/26/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:56:44 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:38:24 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > >> Another format that maybe works on streaming (if I've not misunderstood
> > >> what has been stated) is
> > >>   * 5: [EMAIL PROTECTED] flv file
> > >
> > > no - not going to work. 21fps at best. :(
> >
> > Ah... I thought that the limitation was only on playing media saved on
> > SD, not on data streaming from the net.
> >
> > Anyway if the player frame-dropping is enabled (or setting the -fps
> > value to 20 in mplayer, for example), I guess we could get a better
> > video quality than the other formats...
>
> as per the thread (just scroll back through it) there is a general
> limitation
> of video bus bandwidth. this will always limit the amount of data you can
> feed
> to the graphics chip (the glamo). this SAME bus is SHARED with SD Card data.
> so
> that same bandwidth now is for both functions, not just graphics.
>
> i tested - 21fps is what i got for my 320x240 test mp3g4 file (of course
> bitrate will vary this framerate, and different codecs will also affect it).
>
> --
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Well, after doing a few tests, (mainly thanks to ahven and SpeedEvil
on IRC), the Neo can handle a 160x128 H264 (with CABAC) encoded video
at 40kbps with a 12kbps audio track. The fun comes in with the
scaling. Scaling to 320x240 with no frame dropping is possible if I
encode the video as baseline H264. However, I think the Freerunner,
especially with a beefier processor and hardware scaling, should
perform quite a bit better. The scaling seems to give quite a big
performance hit.

Cheers,
Federico

PS) I do not own a Neo, and I'm not an expert on anything

On 4/27/08, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Christoph
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 24.04.2008, 11:19 +0200 schrieb Christoph Witzany:
> > As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the
> > freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible
> > location to store videos on the neo ftm).
>
> I did some testing on that with GTA01.
>
>
> > Please correct me if I misunderstood.
>
> Even with GTA01 it was possible - though the tests I made there are not
> valid for GTA02 (don't have one yet).
>
> What I found out with mplayer is:
>
> 1) H.264 will take to much time to decompress (even at low bitrates)
> 2) SDL will be the fastest way to output without HW acceleration
> 3) using H.263 (as Youtube does) I could get the best
>compression/bitrate/speed ratio
> 4) using 320x240 and scale to 640x480 (480x640) is doable
>
> Some of those findings are documented at the buttom of
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Video_Player
>
>
> > If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will
> > display at 5-10 fps at best, right?
>
> Actually with GTA01 I've had 13 fps in fullscreen mode (320x240 ->
> 480x640) which looked really okay and was viewable.
>
> A 640x480 H.263 though with reasonable bitrate took to much cpu-power to
> decode.
>
> Anyway, with GTA02 you should take a try - it seems doable in SW even
> without 2D acceleration, as it just has more cpu power. - try to start
> with:
>
> mencoder -quiet -ofps 13 -vf scale -zoom -xy 352 -af channels=1:0:0:1:0
> \
> -oac lavc -ovc lavc -lavcopts \
> acodec=mp3:vcodec=h263p:autoaspect=1:vbitrate=200:abitrate=32 \
> -o  
>
> mplayer -autosync 30 -vf scale -zoom -xy 640 -vf rotate=1 -sws 0
> -nodouble \
> -vo sdl -fs -framedrop 
>
>
> Greetings from Berlin
>
> Kristian
>
>
> --
> /* Web: http://www.mput.de  | Tel:+49 (0)170/6692447  *
>  * Blog:http://mput.de/blog | ICQ:93248497*
>  * GPG-ID:  4BBB6525 (..2009)   | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
>  * Twitter: kristian_m  | MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] */
>
>
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Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Well, after doing a few tests, (mainly thanks to ahven and SpeedEvil
on IRC), the Neo can handle a 160x128 H264 (with CABAC) encoded video
at 40kbps with a 12kbps audio track. The fun comes in with the
scaling. Scaling to 320x240 with no frame dropping is possible if I
encode the video as baseline H264. However, I think the Freerunner,
especially with a beefier processor and hardware scaling, should
perform quite a bit better. The scaling seems to give quite a big
performance hit.

Cheers,
Federico

PS) I do not own a Neo, and I'm not an expert on anything

On 4/27/08, Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, after doing a few tests, (mainly thanks to ahven and SpeedEvil
> on IRC), the Neo can handle a 160x128 H264 (with CABAC) encoded video
> at 40kbps with a 12kbps audio track. The fun comes in with the
> scaling. Scaling to 320x240 with no frame dropping is possible if I
> encode the video as baseline H264. However, I think the Freerunner,
> especially with a beefier processor and hardware scaling, should
> perform quite a bit better. The scaling seems to give quite a big
> performance hit.
>
> Cheers,
> Federico
>
> PS) I do not own a Neo, and I'm not an expert on anything
>
> On 4/27/08, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Christoph
> >
> > Am Donnerstag, den 24.04.2008, 11:19 +0200 schrieb Christoph Witzany:
> > > As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the
> > > freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible
> > > location to store videos on the neo ftm).
> >
> > I did some testing on that with GTA01.
> >
> >
> > > Please correct me if I misunderstood.
> >
> > Even with GTA01 it was possible - though the tests I made there are not
> > valid for GTA02 (don't have one yet).
> >
> > What I found out with mplayer is:
> >
> > 1) H.264 will take to much time to decompress (even at low bitrates)
> > 2) SDL will be the fastest way to output without HW acceleration
> > 3) using H.263 (as Youtube does) I could get the best
> >compression/bitrate/speed ratio
> > 4) using 320x240 and scale to 640x480 (480x640) is doable
> >
> > Some of those findings are documented at the buttom of
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Video_Player
> >
> >
> > > If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will
> > > display at 5-10 fps at best, right?
> >
> > Actually with GTA01 I've had 13 fps in fullscreen mode (320x240 ->
> > 480x640) which looked really okay and was viewable.
> >
> > A 640x480 H.263 though with reasonable bitrate took to much cpu-power to
> > decode.
> >
> > Anyway, with GTA02 you should take a try - it seems doable in SW even
> > without 2D acceleration, as it just has more cpu power. - try to start
> > with:
> >
> > mencoder -quiet -ofps 13 -vf scale -zoom -xy 352 -af channels=1:0:0:1:0
> > \
> > -oac lavc -ovc lavc -lavcopts \
> > acodec=mp3:vcodec=h263p:autoaspect=1:vbitrate=200:abitrate=32 \
> > -o  
> >
> > mplayer -autosync 30 -vf scale -zoom -xy 640 -vf rotate=1 -sws 0
> > -nodouble \
> > -vo sdl -fs -framedrop 
> >
> >
> > Greetings from Berlin
> >
> > Kristian
> >
> >
> > --
> > /* Web: http://www.mput.de  | Tel:+49 (0)170/6692447  *
> >  * Blog:http://mput.de/blog | ICQ:93248497*
> >  * GPG-ID:  4BBB6525 (..2009)   | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
> >  * Twitter: kristian_m  | MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] */
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
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Re: 10 or more phones order

[Federico Lorenzi]

And why is it not in Python?

On 4/28/08, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  I just can't leave it like that. :-)
> >
> >  if (phones_ordered % 10 * PRICE_1 > PRICE_10_PACK)
> > phones_ordered += 10 - phones_ordered % 10;
>
> Is this really necessary?
> what this code is for?
> And where are comments? :)
>
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

[Federico Lorenzi]

Yeah, I fully agree. It's not innuendo unless it's subtle :)

Also, are we still are missing the video from Steve's kids about the
FreeRunner, or have I just missed it?

Cheers,
Federico

On 4/28/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok, everyone, this type of content must stop right away. It will not be
> tolerated.
>
> Michael
>
> David Samblas Martinez wrote:
> > We maybe must stop this or freerunner will be the first mobile phone
> > with a PARENTAL ADVISORY tag in its case. :)
> > In oderside it can be a very agresive marketing campaing Open
> your.phone
> >
> > */Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* escribió:
> >
> > On 4/25/08, steve wrote:
> >  > Somebody needs to work on the software to make it vibrate better.
> >
> > Maybe I'll have a look at it (need to get the phone first). I got
> > one idea,
> > but I need to test it:)
> >
> > --
> > Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
> >
> >
> > Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> >
> > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo!
> >
> 
> > La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
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Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Actually, you left out a very important aspect to their success. It
starts with an F, and ends in a word normally used to refer to men of
a young age. I hear it's a trade secret.

* Puts on fire retardent suit *

Cheers,
Federico

On 4/28/08, hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  There is nothing incredible about apple's electrical, software, or
> > mechanical engineering.  IMHO..
> >
> > The marketing/buzz machine is incredible though.
> >
>
> I presume that you have never worked on a team that has built a successful
> mainstream consumer product, because if you did, you certainly would not be
> able to dismiss their success in this manner. Making things that sell has
> very little to do with advertising. "hype" does not just come from nowhere,
> as if from the heavens. If crappy products could win based on good
> advertising, all that would be required was money and clearly that is not
> nearly enough (see Microsoft Vista).
>
> The bottom line is that best selling tech gadgets, software, and computers
> sell to primarily tech savvy people because they like them. They like them,
> because the designers and developers have figured out how to make broadly
> appealing products. That is hard. If you are suggesting otherwise without
> actually having a resume that suggests you have done so yourself, you really
> don't have much of an argument.
>
> Hank
>
>
> >
> >  --
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *hank williams
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM
> > *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
> > *Subject:* Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
> >
> >
> >   If this is primarily a developer platform, why are there so many intense
> > > opinions about such superficial things as color and marketing anyways?
> > >
> >
> > In today's world, there is *very* little daylight between marketing and
> > engineering. They are of a piece. The product design, the feature set, and
> > yes even the physical form factor are all both engineering issues as well
> as
> > marketing issues. Apple is a prime example of this. The beauty of the
> design
> > of their products is all about marketing, but could not be achieved
> without
> > incredible engineering on the electrical, software, and mechanical
> > engineering fronts. So I don't think, particularly for a phone, you can
> > separate these issues.
> >
> > Hank
> >
> > --
> > blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com
>

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Re: 10 or more phones order

[Federico Lorenzi]

Haha, one of the bests laughs I've had on here! Although I'm pretty
sure it violates PEP 346356 which clearly states that thou should not
use exec and base64 :)

Cheers,
Federico
On 4/28/08, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  So why's it not in Perl then,
> >  You could do all that in a simple one-liner...
> >
> >  ;o)
> >
> >
>
> I don't know Perl :(
> But I could try to write on z/OS HLASM. Or Erlang...
>
> Btw, it could be simple one-liner in Python too.
> Like this:
>   phone_count = 42
>   _orders = ["BOX" for _i in xrange(phone_count // 10)] + ["SINGLE"
> for _i in xrange(phone_count % 10)]
>   print("Please, order %s" % ", ".join(_orders))
>
> Or if you want REALLY python one-liner:
>
> exec("eJwryMjPS41Pzi/NK1GwVTAx4orPL0pJLSoGcqKVnPwjlBTS8osU4jMVMvMUKooS89JTNQqQtOjrKxgaaMYqaANVB3v6ufu4EtCgClbPVVCUmVeioRSQk5pYnKqjALZTQbVYCSivpKOgpJeVn5mnAXWKpiYAGp0z4g==".decode("base64").decode("zip"))
>
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Re: youtube freerunner vid is up

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Tim Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, why did these guys get early copies of a freerunner to review, when they
> even admitted to not doing this before, and didn't seem to do any research
> on the product they are reviewing?
... Because they are Steve's kids?

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Re: Our new Main page of wiki

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's not just the titles that are awkward, all the text sounds kind of
>  awkward. Brenda, don't be offended at this, but your first language is
>  not English is it? Perhaps you should leave the content of the
>  consumer-facing pages (at least, the ones that are in english) to
>  someone who has English intuition. I know, Openmoko is supposed to be
>  about Openness, but this is a little ridiculous.
Well, it sounds as if English is your first language, why not give
renaming and editing a shot?

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Re: Wiki distorted in Firefox 3?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Close, but no cigar :)

The top half of the menu renders fine for me, but the search bar is
still at the bottem.

Cheers,
Federico

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Joachim Steiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> please retest, ive added a small patch, courtesy of abraxa.
>  thanks for testing (most of us is till on FF2 here)
>
>  ps: please use http://admin-trac.openmoko.org/ for any site,
>  infrastructure, webservices issues from now on.
>
>  the product and software/openmoko distribution issues will also move
>  from bugzilla to a trac soon.
>
>  will write up about it as soon as we are done (do not worry, no bugs
>  should be lost at all, we will migrate them)
>
>
>  kind regards
>
>  --
>
>  Joachim Steiger
>  Openmoko Central Services
>
>
>
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Re: Freerunner games / using motion sensors in C

[Federico Lorenzi]

On that topic, a joystick interface to the accel. would be rather cool.

Cheers,
Federico

On 5/13/08, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
>
> | If somebody tells me how to use the accelerometers, I will have a go. Is
> | it just like /dev/joydev ?
>
> You just open /dev/input/event2 (top accel) and/or 3 (bottom).  Have a
> look in /usr/include/linux/input.h -- basically these guys
> turn up in there 300 a second:
>
> struct input_event {
>   struct timeval time;
>   __u16 type;< type = 2
>   __u16 code;< code = 0=X, 1=Y, 2=Z
>   __s32 value;   < signed mG force in 18mG steps
> };
>
> - -Andy
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkgpPNkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoVuwCfVbgX9PEmkWvsnK8ju7RwzwR5
> ilgAn2tDzszlCky4+Vq7d10iiWqB9A5B
> =GNI5
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: Idea: Wake me during light sleep

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 17:32 +0200, Sven Klomp wrote:
>> Hey, Freerunner has accelerometers, so tie the phone around your arm :-)
>>
>
> Yeah, and until you get one, why not sleep in a microwave? =P
Because microwaves put out 2.4ghz, I like my radiation at lower frequencies :p

Cheers,
Federico
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Re: Freerunner on a Mac ...

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Wilkinson, Alex
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>0n Fri, May 16, 2008 at 08:22:12AM +0200, Dirk Deimeke wrote:
>
>>One point on my list is to ask you, if it is possible, to configure
>>(install software) on Freerunner, when you have a Mac?
>
> And/Or FreeBSD ?
Should work, FreeBSD supports cdce, which is a USB ethernet gadget.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Freerunner on a Mac ...

[Federico Lorenzi]

man cdce on a FreeBSD system...

On 5/16/08, Wilkinson, Alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 0n Fri, May 16, 2008 at 08:39:48AM +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote:
>
> >On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Wilkinson, Alex
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>0n Fri, May 16, 2008 at 08:22:12AM +0200, Dirk Deimeke wrote:
> >>
> >>>One point on my list is to ask you, if it is possible, to
> configure
> >>>(install software) on Freerunner, when you have a Mac?
> >>
> >> And/Or FreeBSD ?
> >Should work, FreeBSD supports cdce, which is a USB ethernet gadget.
>
> What is "cdce" ?
>
>  -aW
>
> IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence
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Re: CDCE (was: Freerunner on a Mac ...)

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>cdce[1] is the ethernet -over-usb driver in FreeBSD. To test it, you
>>can do 'kldload if_cdce', then see the man page.
>>Last time I tested it, it worked without problems.
>
> The cdce driver is also in OpenBSD (and presumably NetBSD); on Open at least
> it is in the generic kernel so you don't have to worry about modloading it
> or testing for it.
>
> The name is not arbitrary, btw. The USB standard defines these things as
> "Communication Device Class - Ethernet".
>
> The BSDs like to give things real names like that, compared to Linux's
> somewhat boring technique of calling all network devices "eth" (even ones
> that don't actually use Ethernet). I guess it's just a style thing... (he
> says, trying to duck the resulting flamefest)...
Indeed, and if for whatever reason you don't like it, you can always
alias it to eth? too :)

Cheers,
federico

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Re: Wireless Cracking / Hacking on the FreeRunner

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 5:28 AM, Brad Midgley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey
>
>> There is an email from Andy Green in March saying says we don't have
>> monitor mode, which I think means no promiscuous mode.
AFAIK monitor mode and promiscuous mode are two different things.
Monitor mode makes the card receive everything going over the air, not
just packets with its SSID, while promiscuous mode allows you to
receive IP traffic not destined for you (in a network connected with a
hub, when you use a switch, things get interesting with ARP hijacking
and the like)

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions

[Federico Lorenzi]

Everyone should just use Python or ASM. Problem solved :)

On 5/20/08, Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5/20/08, Fredrik Wendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > > Language DOES matter. We use English on this list...
>> >
>> > Programming language. :)
>>
>> Sorry if I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was refering to the generic
>> case
>> - be
>> it spoken language, programming language, painting, music, ... If you want
>> very
>> active involvement of participants then they need to easily grasp the
>> environment and what others have done before.
>
>
> In spoken language, however, there is a de facto standard (English). When it
> comes to C vs. C++, there's always a lot of people that are fluent in one
> vs. a lot of people that are fluent in the other.
>
> / Fredrik
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Vincent
>

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Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started

[Federico Lorenzi]

Funamble connecter springs to mind. Its free too.

On 5/22/08, thomasg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Supporting proprietary apps and non-standard non-public-documented protocols
> should be imho on the far bottom of the todo.
> So do we need outlook-support out of the box? Definitely not. What we need
> is SyncML support for the PIM apps/daemon (and I'm pretty sure that abraxa
> will be doing fine work in this area).
> If someone needs sync with Outlook: there are ways to make Outlook speak
> SyncML. Mostly they are commercial, but there's no difference to Outlook.
>
> I'm looking to use the neo as a toy, as a tool and for work, but it is not
> the job of Openmoko inc. to care for proprietary non-standard third-party
> software and waste money for this.
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 3:12 AM, Wilkinson, Alex <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>0n Wed, May 21, 2008 at 01:09:24PM -0700, steve wrote:
>>
>>>I do not believe that it will sync to outlook. However, explain
>> exactly
>> what
>>>you want to do.
>>>
>>>get your outlook contacts, mail and appointments to the phone?
>>
>> Calendar and contacts syncing between Outlook and phone is a pretty major
>> thing
>> needed. I would like to use both of these functions extensively to
>> organise
>> my
>> daily working life. I'm not really looking to use OpenMoko as a toy :)
>>
>>  -aW
>>
>> IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence
>> Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the
>> CRIMES
>> ACT 1914.  If you have received this email in error, you are requested to
>> contact the sender and delete the email.
>>
>>
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Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Vinc Duran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Federico, can you send me a URL where I can learn more about Funamble?
> Google searches haven't found me much.
Of course you wouldn't - I was stupid and misspelt it :) It's really
spelt Funambol, and you can check out its Wikipedia page [1], its home
page [2] and the location of the Outlook connector among others [3].
Personally I have used the Mozilla connector with Horde's SyncML
support, and found it worked quite nicely.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funambol
[2] http://www.funambol.com/opensource/
[3] http://www.funambol.com/opensource/downloads.php

HTH,
Federico

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Re: Freerunner v. HTC v. ....

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Al Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Comparing with the FreeRunner hardware wiki page:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware
>
> Comms: Freerunner only has GSM/GPRS triband.
> Connectivity: WiFi equal, Freerunner has Bluetooth 2.1 with EDR
> CPU: same core and clock
> Camera: Freerunner doesn't have one
> Memory: Freerunner has double the RAM and double the ROM
> Memory card: Equal
> Screen: same size, Freerunner is 480x640 but has no keyboard.
> Weight: Similar? Freerunner 110g without battery, battery weight not quoted.
> Size: Similar, but different shape. Freerunner is 120.7 x 62 x 18.5 mm
> Battery: Freerunner has 1200mAh
>
> USB host mode: only Freerunner. I don't know of another phone that has this.
> GPS: only Freerunner
>
> media decode/3D: both have the hardware and neither do much with it yet.
> Openmoko have been open about exactly what the capabilities are, while HTC
> were rather evasive when customers started questioning the media performance.
> There are other phones that are better in this area.
You left out the ability to connect to a phone that has HSDPA / 3g (in
my case the Nokia E51) via Bluetooth or USB, and use it as a modem :)

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Freerunner v. HTC v. ....

[Federico Lorenzi]

> If you can type as fast on a touch screen as I can on a properly sized thumb
> keyboard,  you are a magician.
If you can type on a properly sized thumb keyboard, as quickly as I
can on a fold up bluetooth keyboard, then you are a magician. And if I
can type as quickly on a fold up bluetooth keyboard, as I can type on
my normal keyboard, then I'm a magician.

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Re: Freerunner v. HTC v. ....

[Federico Lorenzi]

Quite amusing that there is an HTC Magician :)

import hat, animals, threading, typing

def type_():
while true:
typing.typerandom()

def pullhat(animal):
hat.pull(animal)

if __name__ == "__main__":
threading.Thread(target=type_).start()
pullhat(animals.rabbit)

There :)
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:36 AM, john <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you can pull a rabbit out of a hat whilst typing on a normal
> keyboard you are indeed a magician!
>
> 2008/5/24 Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>> If you can type as fast on a touch screen as I can on a properly sized thumb
>>> keyboard,  you are a magician.
>> If you can type on a properly sized thumb keyboard, as quickly as I
>> can on a fold up bluetooth keyboard, then you are a magician. And if I
>> can type as quickly on a fold up bluetooth keyboard, as I can type on
>> my normal keyboard, then I'm a magician.
>>
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Re: software load for first mfg run of Freerunner? Is ASU what ships?

[Federico Lorenzi]

>From mails to this list, AFAIK the answer is no.

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am NOT asking if mass production has started.
>
> I am asking if OpenMoko has frozen a release to
> load into the microSD cards. It seems to me that the unit can come off
> the line, and that one of the final steps before packing would be to load
> the
> software.
>
> Is ASU "the* ship[ping s/w load?
>
> yes I know people can and will download new s/w.
> but you'd hope that the Freerunner as shipped would not
> require an immediate s/w reload.
>
> Or maybe I'm being too "old skool" ???
> --
> Ron K. Jeffries
> http://blog.eronj.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners

[Federico Lorenzi]

Actually on the FreeRunner it is impossible to brick it unless you
have a debug board, in which case you can unbrick it anyways.

On 5/26/08, David Murrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since I'm a software guy, my list of nice to have's are:
>
> *Some sort of example workingish software stack to hack on
> *A documented way of unbricking it if/when I stuff up
> *Hardware that works
>
> I'm not seeing any problems at this stage...
>
> Here's how I see this working:
>
> Openmoko ships the phones with the old(er) firmware.
> People get them, and get onto mailing lists. Technically competent users
> figure how to update them, post instructions. Other people verify them,
> write them up in easy to use fashion. Someone posts a script, someone
> else codes it up into a GUI program for win32, downloadable as a msi
> installer. Parallel to this process will be people hacking away after or
> during work, generating custom builds, and scratching their personal
> software itches. Some of this custom work will get picked up by the
> mainline, and make it into the factory builds.
>
> This happens everywhere there is collaboration - we see it with PSPs,
> DSLites, iPods and a whole bunch of other highly closed,
> user-modification hostile platforms with no documentation publicly
> available. The fact that this is an open platform means that the above
> process is only going to occur faster from the point at which people
> receive their phones.
>
> So with all due respect, relax. I'm not a terribly good developer, and I
> reckon I'm up for it.
>
> Looking at this page:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device
>
> Suggests that as long as one isn't messing with the uboot partition, its
> actually pretty hard to properly brick the phone.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 17:47 -0700, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
>> Sebastian,
>>
>> I am well aware that we are MANY months away from Freerunner
>> being appropriate choice for an average "just a user."
>>
>> But Steve has talked about "mass production" (starting soon...)
>> which I'd assume implies OpenMoko building a few thousands of
>> Freerunners.
>>
>> I am not asking about the relatively few "early experience"
>> Freerunners that
>> Steve and Michael have evidently seeded out to a few trusted folks.
>>
>> I may be misguided, but the quality of ASU load does not sound like
>> it's ready to flow out to a few thousand developers,
>> never mind how eager they are.
>>
>> My guess:  OpenMoko is gathering feedback from the n=100 (???) early
>> experience Freerunner units, then they knocks down the nastiest bugs,
>> and THEN and only then open the spigot at the factory.
>>
>> If it was me, I would only have built a few hundred so far, but they
>> may
>> well have bigger balls than I do. ;)
>>
>> -rj
>> 
>>
>>
>> From: Sebastian Reichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>> 
>> Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 22:26:53 +0200
>> Subject: Re: software load for first mfg run of Freerunner? Is ASU
>> what ships?
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> it was said some days ago in the mailing list, that ASU is not the
>> software which is shipped with the phone. But the first Freerunners,
>> which are shipped are still not for the average user - they are for
>> developers, which are able to update their phones.
>>
>> Am Sonntag, den 25.05.2008, 12:35 -0700 schrieb Ron K. Jeffries:
>> > I am NOT asking if mass production has started.
>> >
>> > I am asking if OpenMoko has frozen a release to
>> > load into the microSD cards. It seems to me that the unit can come
>> off
>> > the line, and that one of the final steps before packing would be to
>> > load the
>> > software.
>> >
>> > Is ASU "the* ship[ping s/w load?
>> >
>> > yes I know people can and will download new s/w.
>> > but you'd hope that the Freerunner as shipped would not
>> > require an immediate s/w reload.
>> >
>> > Or maybe I'm being too "old skool" ???
>> > --
>> > Ron K. Jeffries
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Re: My experience with the Freerunner (was: Any Stats on Batterylife....)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Wow, that actually looks better then I expected. According to
PhoneScoop, my Nokia E51 has a talk time of 4 hours or so. Although
I'm not too sure if this is with UMTS or GSM, and I can't really test
as there is no such thing as free calling here.

Cheers,
Federico

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:13 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Talk time is an interesting metric.
>
> It would be cool to see how "claimed" talk times correspond with measured
> talk times.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 5:47 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: My experience with the Freerunner (was: Any Stats on
> Batterylife)
>
> I'm also doing some testing on a Freerunner for Michael and Steve, and I
> have one thing to share about battery life.
>
> With the ASU software, with no power saving at all, I placed a phone
> call to my Freerunner with a T-Mobile SIM from an AT&T phone. There was
> no audio, just two phones sitting side by side. The next morning, of
> course, the Freerunner was completely drained (my AT&T phone was plugged
> into its charger). The phone call lasted 3 hours and 52 minutes -- just
> shy of 4 full hours.
>
> I'm running another test right now with power saving turned on (dimming,
> no locking), to see if that has any additional impact on call life.
> There's also minor audio going on, as my wife is in the office/nursery
> building some cabinets for the baby we're expecting in October.
>
> Once these, and a few other power-related tests are done, I plan to
> travel around Los Angeles a little, testing the tri-band coverage in
> various areas of the city.
>
> I've written a few notes to Michael off-list about the ASU software, but
> wanted to share that of the various test calls I've made to/from land
> lines, VoIP lines (with Vonage) and various cell phones on AT&T and
> Verizon to the Freerunner with both AT&T and TMobile SIM cards, I've
> only had a single call with no outgoing audio. The SMS software is very
> basic, but complete (no MMS tested yet).
>
> The terminal application is usable, but the new keyboard isn't terribly
> useful as there are no slash ('/') or pipe ('|') characters which are
> pretty necessary for using a command line.
>
> I'm also ordering an 8GB SDHC micro SD card to test some 8GB storage
> usaes. So far the 512MB micro SD that shipped with the phone works
> great. I'll test it with a 2GB non-SDHC micro SD when this next phone
> battery test is complete.
>
> Since others have covered the packaging and accessories, I won't bother
> to echo their notes too.
>
> More later,
> Ian Douglas
>
>
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Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)

[Federico Lorenzi]

That must be a really power hungry one... I plan on using my 3G /
HSDPA Nokia E51 with the FreeRunner, probably over Bluetooth, but if
that is too slow, then I'll give USB a shot. It doesn't charge over
USB, so it shouldn't need too much power.

Cheers,
Federico

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Brad Midgley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andy
>
>> I have one of these 3G dongles, it should work from Freerunner battery
>> OK since we have a charge pump for the full 500mA it is allowed to pull.
>
> this verizon dongle comes with a Y cable of its own to plug into two
> usb host ports... ostensibly because it pulls more than 500mA.
>
> --
> Brad
>
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Re: USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Do  29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh:
>>
>> Andy Green wrote:
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > Somebody in the thread at some point said:
>> > | Am Mi  28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley:
>> > |> Joerg
>> > |>
>> > |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > | wrote:
>> > |>> Am Mi  28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley:
>> > |>>> i think it may still be up in the air
>> > |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just
>> > have
>> > | to
>> > |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one.
>> > |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll
>> > |> update the section in
>> > |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is.
>> > |
>> > | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to
>> > | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate
>> > | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting
>> > EN_USBHOST!),
>> > | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the
>> > | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not.
>> >
>> > It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for
>> > a while.
>>
>> A related question: I presume that it is the electrical signal
>> EN_USBHOST which flips the switch which causes the USB port to source
>> current in host mode, as opposed to sinking current in device mode.
>>
>> This is of course what is expected of a USB host, but it also prevents
>> us from charging the Freerunner when the USB port is in host mode, if an
>> appropriate power source is available.
>>
>> Question:
>> Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in
>> host mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST?
>
> that's exactly how Y-cable_V1 *) works (besides replacing the needed 15k?
> pulldown-Rs also switched away by deasserting EN_USBHOST)
> The combination LOGICAL hostmode + NO chargepump is exactly what the
> kernel-driver should initiate when seeing 47k
>
>
> *) There's the spec for V2 already, that's capable of working with USB2.0-OTG
> (supported by GTA03, though USB2.0 will be there with GTA04 at the earliest)
> See "Y-Cable revisited" somewhere on the lists - even more simple ;-)
I sense a leak of details :) What is the GTA03 that you speak of... I
know GTA04 is the next revision being discussed on the mailing lists,
but I thought GTA03 was skipped?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: multi-tutch?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch
screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and
you can rest your hand on them.

Cheers,
Federico

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:59 AM, ramsesoriginal
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok, as most of you probably did by now, you heared about the Windows 7
> presentation. The most precise of you may have noticed: All of the
> multitouch is also aviable on normal touchscreens (in fact it was
> shown on a "normal" tablet notebook).
> Sooo.. what does this meen for us? simple: it's possible to
> mimc full multitouch with a normal touchscreen.
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:47 AM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
>>>
>>> FR-TS is a resistive-4wire-type, which per se isn't capable of multitouch.
>>> I plan to investigate on some very hackerish tricks to get a little more of
>>> info out of this design, but for now: NO not possible.
>>> /jOERG
>>
>> I knew this, but it's neither possible to use the touchscreen particular
>> gestures like many Synaptics touchpads: I mean tapping,
>> double/triple-fingers tapping, two finger scrolling (mine, that is 5 years
>> old does it!)...
>>
>> --
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>> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>>
>>
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>
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Re: multi-tutch?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch
> screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and
> you can rest your hand on them.
Correcting myself - from Wikipedia:
Passive tablets, most notably those by Wacom, make use of
electromagnetic induction technology, where the horizontal and
vertical wires of the tablet operate as both transmitting and
receiving coils (as opposed to the wires of the RAND Tablet which only
transmit). The tablet generates an electromagnetic signal, which is
received by the LC circuit in the pen. The wires in the tablet then
change to a receiving mode and read the signal generated by the pen.
Modern arrangements also provide pressure sensitivity and one or more
switches (similar to the buttons on a mouse), with the electronics for
this information present in the pen itself, not the tablet. On older
tablets, changing the pressure on the pen nub or pressing a switch
changed the properties of the LC circuit, affecting the signal
generated by the pen, which modern ones often encode a digital data
stream onto the signal. By using electromagnetic signals, the tablet
is able to sense the stylus position without the stylus having to even
touch the surface, and powering the pen with this signal means that
devices used with the tablet never need batteries. Wacom's patents
don't permit their competitors to employ such techniques.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:37 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Do  29. Mai 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño):
>> In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not
>> so good news about production :/
>> Can you share with us something more Steve?
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2
>> [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64
>>
>> --
>> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
> I *REALLY* dislike those "tinyurl" - never give them a try. :-/
> nearly as bad as those html-only (dunno from whom) postings i use to ignore.
> just wanted to let U know
Maybe everyone should use TinyURL with preview?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: AW: multi-touch?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Fr  30. Mai 2008 schrieb Fabian Off:
>> Hey!
>>
>> How does synaptics handle this? When I look at the output my touchpad does,
> I can see "X Y Fingers" Values... Maybe we could look into this code and see
> how they do detect the amount of fingers? Dunno whether they work nearly the
> same, but I believe this could maybe point us into the right direction :)
>>
>> Only my idea... 2-finger-scrolling is so great!
>
> To the best of my knowledge, at least MY synaptics in front of me right now is
> a capacitive type, and even this one doesn't support multitouch right now
> (though maybe a driver issue).
> Please google or wp for capacitive vs resistive ts! Our 4-wire resistive type
> ts is a device as dumb as bread, NO silicon inside. You simply can't do muto
> with such device in a reasonable straight way. How do you get info of
> X1,Y1,X2,Y2 out of a device with 4 ANALOG connectors (GND incl!)??? It may be
> feasible, but it's rather tricky and needs quite some special hw AROUND the
> silicon-free ts.
> There's a way to detect the "surrounding square" of _all_ touchpoints on a
> 4w-R-ts, at least with GTA02 i think. You may use this to detect there's more
> than one touchpoint. Still you have no correct data for the coords of the 2
> (or 3?) points.
That sounds interesting, if you can tell for a fact that two points
are being pressed down, then you could use some fancy maths and
determine their locations, it would probably solve the one of the
multi touch emulation problems AFAIK, which is not knowing if two
points are being touched on either side, or one is being touched in
the centre.

I probably make no sense :)

Federico

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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
>>> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)
>>
>> the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,
>>
>
>
> But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
> E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
> orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
> could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
> would likely to spoil party at some degree).
Huh, I'm a little confused about whats being spoken about here, but
the GPS satellites are effectively giant orbiting atomic clocks, its
the basis of GPS.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Pick up service in fremont CA

[Federico Lorenzi]

Does this mean instead of having the Freerunner couriered to us, we
could go and pick it up? If so that rocks, I should be in Mountain
View (visiting Google's HQ :) round about the 9th of July, and picking
up a FreeRunner would certainly be a lot cheaper then the $200 or so
shipping costs to South Africa.

Thanks,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:40 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> We will support pick up service in Fremont, CA.
>
> Drop me a line if interested.
>
> Steve
>
>
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Re: Cleared to start Mass production

[Federico Lorenzi]

Yay at last! So when does your psuedorandom date generator say they
will be ready for shipping :)

Also, in a previous email you mentioned pickups, I assume this means
we would be able to go Fremont, CA, and actually fetch a FreeRunner,
or is it only for larger orders?

Cheers,
Federico

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:12 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production (
> that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two
> seconds) has been CLEARED TO START.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis
> Wollersheim
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:16 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: OpenMOKO availbility
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> It will be available soon (within one month would be my guess).  Does anyone
> else have a better guess?
>
> You cannot book an order at present.  I reckon they will be able to ship to
> Pakistan.
>
> Cheers
> Dennis
>
> Masoom Alam wrote:
>> Hi every one,
>>
>> I wanted to ask, that when the latest version of the openmoko will be
>> available (seems a stupid question, as we can see a lot of posts on
>> the mailing list :)).
>> Actually, I dont want to wait for one year this time, therefore asking
>> this question.
>>
>> Plus, is there is any possiblity at the moment to book an order for me
>> in advance now?
>>
>> Plus, I want to ship the latest version to Pakistan, any
>> recommendation in this regard?
>>
>> Regards,
>> MM Alam
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[Federico Lorenzi]

Boo, the Glamo seems to kill everything :(

On 6/6/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:04:27 -0700 Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
> at vga.. forget mame and games - they will be doing fullscreen updates. at
> vga... no chance (of any decent framerate). if you don't believe me... try
> it
> when you get one! :)
>
> at qvga though - maybe. also a lot of arcade games are for qvga res... or
> older
> ones are at least...
>
>> You know, you are jokingly commenting about this ...
>>
>> ... but i'm fully setting mine up as a mame emulator.
>>
>> I think that while initially moko is positioned for the technically
>> experienced, I believe we have a device here that can trully do
>> something unique - become a portable general computing and gaming device.
>>
>> Why not?  Why can't we have a moko with a fold out keyboard that can be
>> pulled out and replaced with a game pad?
>>
>> This could seriously set the device apart and interest a lot of homebrew
>> and small game shop developers because the playing field is so fair and
>> level on this platform.
>>
>> I think gaming on the moko should be considered a VERY serious
>> proposition indeed.
>>
>> - Robert
>>
>> Markus Bossert wrote:
>> > Somehow I just remember how nice Tie Fighter looked on my computer
>> > back in 1994 - or 1996? With a full fledged VGA resolution. And
>> > gouraud shading.
>> >
>> > Mhmmm.
>> >
>> > If wine happens to run on the om? :-D
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: resolution preferences??

[Federico Lorenzi]

How about keeping VGA, and making the screen bigger then 2.8"?

Just an idea,
Federico

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:16:15 +1000 (EST) "NeilBrown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> babbled:
>
>> On Fri, June 6, 2008 3:39 pm, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>>
>> > we can just drive the vga screen at qvga. no need for scaling - just
>> > change the
>> > output at the lcd controller level. but it is a waste to pay for a vga
>> > screen
>> > when we won't use it. also it does look "blocky". it isn't about glamo or
>> > not -
>> > it's separate to glamo entirely. simply - how important is a vga screen...
>> > really? how many people out there can really see the difference? be really
>> > honest. stop thinking "my specs are bigger than your specs". scan u REALLY
>> > see
>> > all the pixels on a vga screen of that size. i bet to most people its all
>> > a
>> > blur - a qvga screen looks identical to them. only to a minority who have
>> > very
>> > good eyesight does it really make a difference, but this is just my "bet".
>> > i'm
>> > asking the question - and hoping for real honest answers.
>>
>> Well, it's hard to know without having an actual device to look at, but
>> I'll try
>>
>> My notebook has a 15 inch 1920x1200 monitor which comes to 147dpi.
>> The Freerunner is 285dpi, the pixels are very close to half the width/
>> height of my pixels.
>>
>> So at first I thought "wow, that's tiny.  I don't think I need them *that*
>> small" - and I have better than average eye sight.
>>
>> Then I resized my browser to 640x480 and found I could read it quite
>> well, though lots of web pages don't quite fit.
>> I took a screenshot of the window and displayed it at 50% in the GIMP.
>> So presumably that is how the image could look on the Freerunner.
>>
>> If I hold this image at the same distance from my eye that I usually
>> use a notebook (say 55cm) the text looks like it would be too small
>> to comfortably read, though the reduction of resolution has made it
>> blurry and I cannot be sure.
>> If I hold it at the distance that I would typically read a book, which
>> is closer to 35cm, the text is still a bit small, but I think I would
>> be quite happy reading it - except that the low resolution has made
>> it quite blurry. If it were still 640x480, but the same size I think I
>> could read it quite happily.
>>
>> So my conclusion is that for reading textual content, the higher resolution
>> probably is worth it for me.  I doubt it would be of much value for
>> photo for videos.  I just tried watching a video at [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>> and it was quite acceptable for the physical size.
>>
>> The question then becomes - how often will I be reading pages of text
>> on my Freerunner.  I really don't know.
>>
>> However maps are very similar to textual content - sharp contrast and
>> the potential for lots of information in a small space.
>>
>> I tried a similar experiment comparing a google-maps image
>> 320x240*147dpi and simulated [EMAIL PROTECTED], and the 320x240 felt
>> very constrained - not enough information on the display.
>> The 640x480 felt more comfortable and - I think - would have been
>> readable if I had the real resolution.
>
> cool. someone actually has done a did some experiments on themselves! well 
> done!
> this is just the kind of stuff i was hoping for. this is one of the best
> responses. it's subjective, but using objective measurements as best possible
> with the equipment you have. good!
>
> so yes - the blurry scaled down in gimp @ qvga would be a qvga screen on a
> freerunner. vga would be sharper. then again - until u have a 285dpi screen
> it's hard to really compare! :) but this is the best you can do! nice! :)
> opinion noted for the future! :)
>
>> Maybe you could ask again we have all had our Freerunners for
>> a couple of months.
>>
>> What was the story with 320x240x25fps video again?  Is it possible
>> with the available memory bandwidth?
>
> argh! :)
>
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Federico Lorenzi]

IMHO: You can drive a VGA screen at QVGA, but you can't drive a QVGA
screen at VGA...

Cheers,
Federico

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:16 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:46:28 +0200 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
>> On Friday 06 June 2008 20:07:01 Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
>> > Am Fr  6. Juni 2008 schrieb Flemming Richter Mikkelsen:
>> > > When it comes to GTA03, I will not buy one (because I buy the GTA02),
>> > > so I will not be the target. Maybe QVGA is a good solution, or maybe it
>> > > should be an option when you buy
>> >
>> > If I got that right, we "just need to tune some of the LCD-driver settings,
>> > to get QVGA performance on a VGA screen"(OWTTE). So the ONLY argument for a
>> > QVGA screen is the marginal lower price (and it allegedly looks better than
>> > a VGA in QVGA mode which I don't understand) - but this would clearly be no
>> > bargain at all if we go for more expensive offer of "QVGA *OR* VGA option".
>> > Absolute nonsense, it costs 100 somecoin to replace the screen with a 30
>> > somecoin cheaper one 'on customer order'.
>> >
>> > I opt for VGA and give us a way to drive it QVGA whenever speed is a main
>> > concern (think someone said this before?). For GTA03 I'd prefer to have the
>> > SAME LCM as GTA02, just to reduce design risk. NO capacitive ts, NO QVGA
>> > LCD screen! :-/ Just my 2 cents from HW-dev
>>
>> Full ACK. Once again, 03 is about evolution, not revolution.
>
> vga to qvga for gta03 is a drop-in replacement. same size, form-factor,
> manufacturer, etc. etc. - so as such it fits in with evolution. as it is a
> drop-in, it is a decision that can be changed easily (for at least a while).
>
> for now we have a vga screen on the gta03. i asked this after a talk with will
> and i wanted to gauge what people would really think about qvga. i'm fairly
> agnostic about vga vs qvga myself - i'm on the fence with it. i see the
> benefits both ways. if we could have i'd have liked an intermediate res (eg
> 480x272), but we won't.
>
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Re: regarding the 'data security' thread recently

[Federico Lorenzi]

I suppose the cell phone number should be more then unique enough.


On 6/10/08, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> About data wipe:
>
> I was thinking -- doesn't eny SIM card have some kind of ID number?
> And if they do, do we have software way to obtain it?
>
> Phone could wipe itself if another SIM card is inserted AND upon SMS message
> receiving.
>
>
> If you have several SIM cards, than we could create simple SIM card
> whilelist.
>

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Iphone proximity sensor (was: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Or you just use an infrared proximity sensor. I was thinking it might
be possible to do the same on the Freerunner with the accelerometers.

On 6/10/08, Raphael Wimmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:45:18 +0200, kenneth marken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 10 June 2008 07:37:33 Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
>>> -- larger physical screen size (but about the same  dpi?)
>>
>> i do belive the iphone is lower dpi as the GTA02 is smaller in size, but
>> higher in rez.
>>
>>> -- proximity sensor (knows when held to face, can dim screen)
>>
>> that is probably just the heat sensitive screen and some code that
>> basically locks out input ones a heat source with a surface area larger
>> then a couple of fingers are detected...
> [...]
>
> It's just the capacitive touch screen. I'm pretty sure no temperature
> sensor is involved. As you said ,you just measure the contact area between
> finger and screen (which is easily possible with capacitive touch screens)
> - and once the contact area gets larger than let's say 3cm you assume that
> your ear/cheek is in contact with the screen.
>
> Raphael
>
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Re: resolution preferences??

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Btw, QVGA won't cost much less (it doesn't now and in two years it could be,
> in fact, more expensive than VGA).

That has been especially true of flash drives - I remember seeing a
16MB flash drive that cost more then the same 32MB model.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Lally Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Sheesh, what's with all the hate?  I swear the open source community
> should sometimes just be called "the hater's club."

This page [1] is generally a good overview of the iPhone. Lets be
serious for a second, a new feature was advertised, the ability to
jump to a contact by typing in the first few letters of the name. My
Motorola E398 from 5 years ago could do that. For sure the iPhone is
not a terrible product, but there is absolutely nothing revolutionary
about it. If any other manufacture had made it, identically, it would
probably be a moderate success. In my opinion all the hate is caused
by the majority of people in the open source community recognize the
fact that the iPhone is no miracle phone, even though it's being
treated as such. But I'm just speaking for myself.


[1] http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Click Feedback?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> we have been shipping pulseaudio (which is quite a CPU hog on embedded
> systems) on our rootfs for quite a while now. The main reason not to use alsa
> directly was because of mixing, since alsa dmix absolutely does not cut it.
>
> However just recently I ponder whether I should remove pulseaudio for the time
> being. I have been mainly using it to create a click sound (touch feedback),
> since ring tone et. al playback goes over gstreamer anyways.
>
> So... how important is that click sound to you? Would you miss it? Personally,
> I love it, since the device kind of vibrates (because it's low enough) hence
> I immediately know that the touch has been recognized, even if the UI takes a
> bit. However, I know lot of other people hate it.
>
> If we were to get rid of it, we could ditch pulseaudio and go directly to
> alsa. This means no longer being able to mix sounds, but rather stick them
> into a queue and play them sequentially.
>
> Opinions?

Write a light weight sound muxing daemon? :) Wouldn't it be possible
to get the device to actually vibrate when you touch something, since
it does have a vibrator and all?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:40 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> correct. no 3g for gta03.

Could you confirm if there is edge, or just normal GPRS?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Jorge . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I dont pretend to start a flamewar of "FreeRunner vs iPhone". Everyone knows 
> their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy 
> an openmoko is the freedom.
>
> But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost 
> only $199 USD and it automatically makes the OpenMoko phone expensive, 
> because they have similar characteristics... this could discourage many 
> possible buyers, for purely economical reasons.
>

*sigh*
The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
through a 2 year AT&T contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Jorge . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> *sigh*
>> The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
>> through a 2 year AT&T contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
>> nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.
>>
>
> Just look Ebay, amazon, etc...  you can buy unlocked iPhones for almost the 
> price they have with AT&T, in fact there is no AT&T in my country, an i could 
> buy one on many shops in the downtown (dont misunderstand me, i want the 
> FreeRunner!!).
>
> I am sure it will happen again with the iPhone 3G
No, it won't. When you buy a 3G iPhone, you will actually have to take
out a contract there and then at the Apple store. It's not like how it
was before when anyone could buy it, and just bypass activation. They
will not sell you an iPhone unless you take out a contract.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Dual SIM?

[Federico Lorenzi]

"no"

Not directly at least, it should be possible however to connect
another phone that has bluetooth up to it, and allow it to act in
nearly the same way.

HTH,
Federico

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Adilson Oliveira
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi.
>
> I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive
> answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2
> SIM cards?
>
> []s
>
> Adilson.
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC
> XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs=
> =tW0/
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Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:10 PM, thomasg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Usually UMTS devices are capable of a very fine scaling in small steps
> between -50 dBm and 21(24) dBm. As far as I know the usual transmitting
> power in a good covered areas is about 0 dBm.

Remember that every 3dBm is 2x power output, and 10nW(-50dBm) power output?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: OT: Nokia expects open source developers to accept things like DRM, commercial IP rights, and SIM locks.

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Gabriel Ambuehl
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As for SIM locks and subsidised business models, it seems like a valid trade
> off to me. Get a phone much cheaper than it would cost on its own but only
> use it on our network. As long as there are unlocked version of the same
> phones available, I guess I just don't see the issue. Denying the possibility
> of such arrangements actually impairs the freedom of the end-user as well.
> Namely the freedom to buy a somewhat restricted product at a much lower
> price.

This has been beaten to death in previous threats. You are not getting
the phone for free, you are merely paying for it in your contract.
South Africa has a nice system here. Sure you can get a phone on
contract, for free, but that phone is not restricted in anyway. If you
want to use it on a competitors network, fine, as long as you keep
paying your contract or pay cancellation fees, they don't care.

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Problem in committing project files

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hello,
You have to add your ssh public key to your profile, then use ssh+svn
for subversion

HTH,
Federico

On 6/14/08, saurabh gupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello everyone
>
> This is saurabh gupta, developing for open moko in speech recognition
> facility.
>
> I am getting a problem in committing the files at
> https://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/speech.
>
> First I checked out the repository by command- svn checkout --username *
> saurabhgupta* https://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/speech
>
> But it didn't prompt for a password and when i tried to commit anything, it
> says
> svn: Commit failed (details follow):
> svn: Can't create directory '/svnroot/speech/db/transactions/0-1.txn':
> Permission denied
>
> Can someone please tell me how do you commit your changes to that. I am not
> getting the information about the project manager of the openmoko projects.
>
> thanks in advance..
> --
> Saurabh Gupta
> Electronics and Communication Engg.
> NSIT,New Delhi
>
>
>
>
> --
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> NSIT,New Delhi
>

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Re: moko running everything as root

[Federico Lorenzi]

Isn't there a targeted SElinux policy being developed as part of GSoC?

On 6/15/08, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you have root AND user, root can make a backup copy of user's valuable
> data
> every once in a while, and user or the virus she imported while browsing the
> web can NOT destroy this backup.
> I can't follow your arguments. It's NOT an evil person we need to fence in,
> it's bad behaviour of applications that go nuts on (virus|bug|user fault|*)
>
> If we don't start to care about this topic NOW, we will see lots of poor
> designed apps that rely on having root access where they shouldn't, and we
> end up in a situation like M$, where the whole system is so much
> root-centric
> that you simply can't switch to a sane user-management anymore, because it
> would break half the system. To fix those apps later is a major PITA.
>
> I just "talked" to Wolfgang Spraul and he answered
> "But right now we are selling to hardcore developers only, so it's not
> our #1 priority.
> Once our software becomes more stable and mature, this needs to be
> addressed seriously. The good news is that the FOSS community is
> pretty paranoid about this, so I'm sure over time we will have a good
> solution."
> It's a FOSS project and you are "the community", so just contribute! I'd
> say,
> do it *now*, as long as it's easy.
>
> cheers
> jOERG
>

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Re: Why not use votation system?

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Robert Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do we have to suffer noobs forever on really retarded topics?

Do not feed the tro^H^H^Hnoobs perhaps?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Why not use votation system?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Funny enough I got an email from a friend of mine, her signature seems
really appropriate here:

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
counts can be counted."
Albert Einstein

While person x may not have committed anything, he may have been in
the IRC channel helping people, or person y could have done a huge
effort in cleaning up the wiki.

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:15 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I havent thought out the details, but essentially I would like a system
> where I could be more attentive
> To the people making big contributions, without ignoring those who have yet
> to make one. Tough balance.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
> Martinez
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 3:14 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: RE: Why not use votation system?
>
> good one, code committed to main stream distro? or bash code ? python script
> included in that offer?
>
>
> --- El dom, 15/6/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
>
>> De: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Asunto: RE: Why not use votation system?
>> Para: "'List for Openmoko community discussion'"
>> 
>> Fecha: domingo, 15 junio, 2008 9:18
>> Could we  weight votes by  code committed. No code. No vote.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele
>> Renda
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:25 AM
>> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>> Subject: Re: Why not use votation system?
>>
>> Hi Steve
>>
>> I think I was a bit mis-understood.
>>
>> I didn't told that all the decisions must to be took with a votation
>> system!
>> If we would do so I think we will not have a phone, but a microwave.
>>
>> My idea was only: when Openmoko has to take a decision between two
>> equivalent solution and WANT to know the opinions of the comunity to
>> use a votation system. But only for opinion asked by OM, like it was
>> for the audio jacket.
>>
>> And in every case must to be clear that also if the votation say
>> "choose A"
>> the final decision must to be tooken by OM, because you must to invest
>> on it.
>>
>> I hope I clarified something :)
>>
>> steve wrote:
>> > The complexity of the decision is deeper than that.
>> >
>> > It involves cost, engineering budget, schedule, price,
>> return on
>> > investment, parts availability.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Brad
>> > Midgley
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:12 PM
>> > To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>> > Subject: Re: Why not use votation system?
>> >
>> > Michele
>> >
>> >
>> >> Do you want feature X or feature Y?
>> >>
>> >
>> > you might need a table representing the cost and
>> business feasibility
>> > of each feature. We've seen a lot more
>> transparency on the 3g decision
>> > recently which reveals it to be more complicated than
>> people thought.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Brad
>> >
>> > ___
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>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>>
>>
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Re: Delay is getting worse...

[Federico Lorenzi]

As an experiment, this mail was sent at 7:33pm UTC.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is 13:41 here in Mexico City, and the last
> mail I got from the list arrived at 5:23, it is
> from DR. H. Nikolaus Schaller. (Re: Why not use
> forum)
>
> I check this box at leas once an hour and I can
> tell this is not good. I've been in this list for
> a while and I used to get the messages as soon as
> posted. Pleas, do somehing about it. Even my own
> mails get at least two hours after I send them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kosa
>
> - Un mundo mejor es posible -
>
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Re: GPS

[Federico Lorenzi]

This seems to be really misunderstood. The GPS is the Freerunner can
get a fix with no help whatsoever, it'll just take longer. This is
where the AGPS can come in. Download some data off an assistance
server, and suddenly your time to fix is much less. There have been
posts to this mailing list about it.

HTH,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Francesco Cat
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the FreeRunner will have a true GPS integrated, not only an AGPS
> system, wouldn't it?
>
> Because I was given the address of this flyer:
> http://www.pulster.de/info/pdas/openmoko/freerunner-flyer.pdf
> and I hope it is just out-dated
>
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Re: Openmoko Community Repository

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hello,

I'd love to help out, is it necessary to have a Freerunner?
If so then in 2 weeks hopefully :)

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 6:00 AM, Tick Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi List,
>  Openmoko has a community repository that everyone can put their
> packages on. You can use the projects.openmoko.org to release your
> packages. If you are interested you can get more information on the wiki
> page.
>
> The wiki page is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CommunityRepository
> The projects site is http://projects.openmoko.org/
> The mailing list is 
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community-repository
>
>
> We need package volunteers to review packages, maintain wiki pages.
>
> Any suggestion is welcome.
> Thanks
>
>
> Happy Hacking,
> Tick
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFIXx/hPNWONWpVfqoRAjUjAJ9zIfwM0uB6FGzroUzfq2QvLt0mPwCffLaO
> Mnbt1t9UBP65DRm8pAo8Vnw=
> =neOE
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Or build a script that wget's the store page every 10 minutes and
compares it to the previous version and emails you the diff :)

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Steven **
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And note that those will have zero impact on your chance of getting a Neo.
>
> Essentially, if you want a Neo, make sure you check your email often.
> I'm assuming the announcement will go to the announcement list...
>
> -Steven
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:26 AM, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> see buyers interest list
>>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List
>> and group sales
>>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
>>
>>
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Re: FSO Image gets it right

[Federico Lorenzi]

FSO QT GTK ASU GLX. Pick the odd one out :)

On 6/24/08, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've seen the past and there is nothing about FSO.
>
> WTF is FSO? ;-)
>
> Graeme Gregory escribió:
>> Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO.
>>
>> For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls on a
>> gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software
>> cannot do this.
>>
>> And the best of it is, this was on my broken GTA02 where the gsm is
>> about as reliable as a robin reliant (non UK people look up Only Fools
>> and Horses).
>>
>> Things are looking good now we have solid gsm.
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
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Re: BizWeek on iPhone 3G component cost

[Federico Lorenzi]

And how many 3g modules do you think they ordered? Knock off a few
zeros and you get the quantity that Openmoko would buy.

On 6/24/08, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2008/tc20080623_505287.htm
>
> note that 3G royalties add $45 to iPhone cost of goods sold.
>
> Apple's 58 pct. gross margin is ultra sweet for
> consumer electronics market.
>
> Ron K. Jeffries
> http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries
>

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Re: How Slow Is Fast?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Well, I did some work with regards to streaming videos over GPRS a
while ago, and ahven in #openmoko was able to play a streaming video
that had a total bit rate of 52kbps with no lag. (H264 at 40 with
Vorbis audio at 12, and it looked and sounded better then the normal
YouTube mobile streaming too :) I'm pretty sure it can do more too.
There is info on the wiki about it, check out the GPRS class info.

On 7/3/08, Knight Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone who has paid attention to this mailing list over the last few
> months has seen the "It doesn't have 3G, it's worthless" messages about
> the FreeRunner. For me (And many, many others) having a fast,
> power-hungry wireless pipe to the phone isn't as important as everything
> else the FreeRunner brings to the table. But I do have a question: What
> kind of thru-put can we expect to see from the GPRS radio in the
> FreeRunner? Is it 2k/sec dial-up speed? I'm interested in any
> information about this radio, theoretical as well as experiential (Now
> that people are getting FreeRunners). I've got some grand plans in the
> works, which may or may not ever come to fruition, but some of the
> design considerations hinge on what kind of bandwidth the GPRS radio
> provides.
>
>
> Also, and I know this has been talked about before, but is the final
> word that the GPRS can or cannot be active at the same time as the GSM
> (Class B or whatever it's called)? An ongoing GPRS connection would be
> really nice but if it can suspend/resume decently (Something like v.92
> on modems if anyone remembers those).
>
>
> -KW
>
>
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Re: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!!

[Federico Lorenzi]

I am so buying one, on my phone :)

On 7/3/08, Harry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear All,
> Sorry for delay long time!!!
> So far, only GSM850 Freerunner is available in stock, Debug board and
> spare also!!!
>
> http://www.openmoko.com/store.html
>
> Freerunner is running
>
> Thanks and BR
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
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Error while paying

[Federico Lorenzi]

Hi, I get a gateway error from hitrust when attempting to pay, anyone
know what the problem is?

Thanks,
Federico

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Re: Error while paying

[Federico Lorenzi]

Maybe it has to do with the lack of a CVV?

On 7/3/08, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I get the same gateway error!  WTF?
>
> -Steven
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 6:25 AM, William Lai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Ken Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Federico Lorenzi wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi, I get a gateway error from hitrust when attempting to pay. anyone
>>> > know what the problem is?
>>>
>>> I get this error too.   It is "Gateway Error 500", for whatever
>>> that's worth.   I was tryig to order an 850 MHz 10-pack, with
>>> expedited shipping.   I tried placing the order with both Firefox
>>> and Internet Explorer.   Same error each time.   Does anyone
>>> know what's going wrong?
>>
>> Placing an order for 10 pack with Firefox worked for me.
>> Did you try again?
>>
>> WL
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Re: Error while paying

[Federico Lorenzi]

Just tried with my dad's credit card and i get the same error. All
these cards have international payments allowed. I want my Freerunner!

On 7/3/08, Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe it has to do with the lack of a CVV?
>
> On 7/3/08, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I get the same gateway error!  WTF?
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 6:25 AM, William Lai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Ken Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Federico Lorenzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi, I get a gateway error from hitrust when attempting to pay. anyone
>>>> > know what the problem is?
>>>>
>>>> I get this error too.   It is "Gateway Error 500", for whatever
>>>> that's worth.   I was tryig to order an 850 MHz 10-pack, with
>>>> expedited shipping.   I tried placing the order with both Firefox
>>>> and Internet Explorer.   Same error each time.   Does anyone
>>>> know what's going wrong?
>>>
>>> Placing an order for 10 pack with Firefox worked for me.
>>> Did you try again?
>>>
>>> WL
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Re: Anyone attending Foo Camp?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Where? When?

On 7/4/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm setting up an Openmoko hack-a-thon and would love to know if anyone
> from this list will be there.
>
> Michael
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Re: GSM Carrier

[Federico Lorenzi]

Normally it is. If the provider allows you to access SSL sites,
there's not much the can do. Google for proxytunnel.

On 7/4/08, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Or with a little more work you can make the entire thing transparent by
>> setting up a VPN on one of those ports and just directing linux to route
>> all traffic over the VPN.
>
> i'm sure, if it was that easy to circumvent the restrictions imposed on a
> 5$ plan, t-mobile would have dropped it already.
>
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Re: Posible Bluetooth Keyboard

[Federico Lorenzi]

You could probably use a mouse with it too. What would also be
interesting to see is if a bluetooth keyboard uses more or less power
then one connected via usb.

On 7/5/08, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> At the moment my FR is travelling to me, so I'm looking for a good
>> portable bluetooth keyboard.
>> What do you think about BT KB? what about Nokia SU-8W?
>>
>
>
> I had some great sessions with my Apple Wireless KB and the neo1973 ..
>
> ;
> --
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>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Shipping to canada...

[Federico Lorenzi]

163 dollars for shipping to South Africa... Any reason USPS isn't offered?

On 7/5/08, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Did I mention UPS suck?
>
> i second that ...
>
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Re: on screen keyboard?

[Federico Lorenzi]

Afaik raster was working on a magic keyboard that had all sorts of
cool features.

On 7/5/08, Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Saturday 05 July 2008, arne anka wrote:
>> hi,
>> somebody asked thsi already a while ago (but got no answer):
>> is there a package available providing a better keyboard than that
>> included w/ the freerunner, resembling a multi tap phone keyboard?
>> honestly, i can't figure out a rationale for spending effort on
>> implementing such a limited keyboard, it even misses crucial characters!
>
> You can at least modify the character map for the multitap keyboard - it's
> in
> etc/multitap-pad/im-multipress.conf
> You can add printing characters like slashes, pipe and so on. Not ideal but
> at
> least a bit more useful.
>
>> so, is there a fullblown keyboard (hopefully with up/down and tab, so one
>> can sroll in hitory and use completion)?
>> opkg list | grep keyboard
>> gives only matchbox-strokes which looks nice but is not really functional
>
> I found the same as you last night. I was trying to follow the instructions
> at
>   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards
> I've just used mokomakefile to build the packages:
>   make build-package-matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod
> I'll let you know how I get on...
>
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Re: Picking up Freerunners in Fremont (was: Openmoko Webshop ReopenNOW!!!)

[Federico Lorenzi]

Steve, you rock :)

I don't suppose we'll know by Thursday the 14th whats going to happen?
I'm only in the US for 4 days, and it's my chance to get a Freerunner
without paying $170 shipping to South Africa.

Cheers,
Federico

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 1:03 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm headed there Monday to figure it out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 4:05 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Picking up Freerunners in Fremont (was: Openmoko Webshop
> ReopenNOW!!!)
>
>
>
> Brian C wrote:
>> Harry wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> Sorry for delay long time!!!
>>> So far, only GSM850 Freerunner is available in stock, Debug board and
>>> spare also!!!
>>>
>>> http://www.openmoko.com/store.html
>>>
>>> Freerunner is running
>>>
>>> Thanks and BR
>>
>> For those who wish to pick up in Fremont, there doesn't seem to be an
>> obvious option in the checkout process to indicate that.  Can this be
>> changed or can someone advise what we should do?
>
> Brian, and others in the Bay Area,
>
> The Fremont facility is not at all set up to do this. However, Steve is
> doing everything he can to figure out a way to do this in spite of this
> fact.
>
> Give him a little time - he's deeply involved in trying to keep the ordering
> and shipping running smoothly.
>
> Thanks for understanding,
> Michael
>
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Re: FR Max downlink bandwidth

[Federico Lorenzi]

Lets say 6kb a sec. In a minute thats 360kb, in an hour it is 24000kb
and per day that is 288000kb. In a month that could be 10656000kb or
10gb. But ssh will never use that much :)

On 7/6/08, Diego Fdez. Durán <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> El dom, 06-07-2008 a las 17:08 +0300, Mikko Rauhala escribió:
>> su, 2008-07-06 kello 16:01 +0200, Diego Fdez. Durán kirjoitti:
>> >  What is the max downlink bandwidth of FreeRunner?
>>
>> 80k for the 4 downlink timeslots. In theory. Practice, you can get >50.
>>
>> >  It's just curiosity, I'm going to use FreeRunner to keep open a SSH
>> > session to my server's control server and latency is the critical thing.
>>
>> Then why're you talking bandwidth? Latency is always bad with gprs.
>> 0.5-1s usually. SSH is not pleasant but usable; done that semiregularly
>> over gprs for quite a while.
>
> Now I get 250ms to 500ms when I'm in the city.
>
> I'm asking about bandwidth to estimate the daily max downloaded data so
> my service provider don't fuck with the bill :)
>
>
> --
> Diego Fdez. Durán <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://www.goedi.net
> GPG : 925C 9A21 7A11 3B13 6E43 50DB F579 D119 90D2 66BB
>
>

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Re: GPS

[Federico Lorenzi]

An interesting idea would be to acquire a fix, then bring the phone
under cover, so it loses the fix, then bring it back in the open and
see how long it will take to reacquire the fix.

On 7/7/08, Kai Römer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Al,
> If you need testers, please contact me. I have several gta02v5
> available and can do tests in Germany Munich.
>
> thanks
> Kai
>
> 2008/7/7 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> I'm not saying there isn't an antenna issue, but that we may be able to
>> mitigate the effects on startup time.
>>
>> On Monday 07 July 2008, Kai Römer wrote:
>>> Hi Al,
>>>
>>> Sounds really convincing, but how do you explain the constantly fast
>>> fix via external antenna then. I really think its an antenna issue.
>>>
>>> Also the difference of the GPGSV values support this idea.
>>>
>>> Tomorrow evening i will ask a specialist to check the antenna signal
>>> qualities. Maybe a cable is broken or there is a short circuit on the
>>> main board.
>>>
>>> I ll report about the results.
>>>
>>> CU Kai
>>>
>>> 2008/7/6 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>> > From what I've seen on the wiki the version of the Antares4 on the
>>> > GTA02
>>> > doesn't have the memory needed to store almanac and ephemeris, last
>>> > known
>>> > position or time. This means that every start is a true cold start,
>>> > unlike every other reasonably modern GPS we're comparing it to. It
>>> > starts
>>> > up thinking the time is midnight on 30th November 1999 and seems to
>>> > need
>>> > a fair bit of decent signal to convince it otherwise, contributing to
>>> > the
>>> > long startup time.
>>> >
>>> > It looks like there is a way around this if you look at the
>>> > documentation
>>> > for the assist. The AID-INI message needn't be supplied by a remote
>>> > server; we can generate it locally to provide the sort of data that's
>>> > stored internally most of the time. At the very least we have a fair
>>> > idea
>>> > of the current time and date. We should also be able to store location,
>>> > almanac and ephemeris when we shut down the GPS, and provide it at the
>>> > next startup. We can also have a stab at current location, based
>>> > perhaps
>>> > on cell ID or wifi data as discussed by some of the other threads, or
>>> > on
>>> > user input.
>>> >
>>> > I'll try to patch together something to do this based on the example
>>> > perl
>>> > client and server code, and see how much difference it makes.
>>> >
>>> > On Friday 04 July 2008, Kai Römer wrote:
>>> >> I can affirm this for 6 opemoko devices. i guess its an internal
>>> >> antenna issue. as soon as you connect a external antenna to it works
>>> >> like a charm. but fur me thats no solution.
>>> >>
>>> >> TTFF with external antenna (perfect condition): 40 to 60 seconds
>>> >> TTFF with internal antenna AGPS (perfect condition): more than 1:20
>>> >> minute but not always. its like gambling.
>>> >>
>>> >> I guess a miss design of the internal antenna.
>>> >>
>>> >> CU Kai
>>> >>
>>> >> 2008/6/23 Peter Kraker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>> >> > This timings are insane unless you don't even have a valid almanac,
>>> >> > which is rare. This doesn't look right.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yorick Matthys pravi:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Marcus Bauer said:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My experience with the Freerunner is ~12 minutes TTFF (time to first
>>> >> > fix) without use of agps and ~4-8 minutes TTFF with agps from
>>> >> > agps.u-blox.com using the software from openmoko.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The Neo1973 (GTA01) had a TTFF without agps assistance of ~2 min.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 12 minutes without AGPS and 4-8min with AGPS??
>>> >> > I hope there was a thunderstorm inside the basement where you tested
>>> >> > this...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > :)
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Seriously, these just don't seem realistic.
>>> >> > Compare them for example with some other devices from 2003:
>>> >> > http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/ttffcomparisons.php.
>>> >> > Or from ublox: http://www.u-blox.com/technology/assistnow/ (table at
>>> >> > the bottom of the page)
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Surely there must be something wrong with your
>>> >> > software/settings/hardware/environment...
>>> >> > (or maybe they still have a lot of work to do on the GPS :))
>>> >> >
>>> >> > y
>>
>>
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Re: shipping very expensive

[Federico Lorenzi]

Ha, only 100 dollars for you. Shipping to South Africa is $160

On 7/7/08, Flyin_bbb8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hey everyone i live in Qatar, and just to see how much the shipping would be
> for the 900 MHz i just tried to check out the 850 version and shipping to
> Doha - Qatar ( where i stay ) with UPS worldwide expedited is 97.59 USD, and
> UPS saver 101.23 USD, that's just unacceptable and very expensive. why
> so? and why do we not have other choices like FedEx or DHL or even others...
> why are we restricted on using just UPS, we should have more options... i
> have done other purchases from other websites and normally the shipping
> would be between 20 USD to 40 USD as a maximum... but not 97 USD
>

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