Re: What to do with FreeRunner / Neo 1973?
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: Ad hoc works for me. So how do you use it? Can you set up a mini-ISP in a cafe and let people tether to your GPRS connection easily enough? I'd really like to do this myself with my Freerunner - an impromptu WLAN router - so if you care to share the details, it'd be really nice .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Some trickery involved in getting USB Host working on FR?
Hi, Does anyone have any advice for me on how to get the Freerunner to work as a USB Host device? I'd like to use it as the main PC surrounded by USB devices (USBMIDI cable, Powermate) .. is there some special cable I need, or is this now all easily handled at the distro level somehow, and if so: which distro has the easiest-to-use USB Host capabilities? Sorry for these dumb questions, btw .. I'm just trying to get my Freerunner into some useful context in my life, and if I could get it set up with USB Host capabilities that'd be pretty good right now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some trickery involved in getting USB Host working on FR?
To be able to charge your FR and use usb perepherals at the same time you need the Y-cable. The best option would be to get a suitable USB hub and modify it accordingly. For more references see [1] and [2]. Switching to host-mode should be easy with any distro, as it's done on kernel level and is controlled by two sysfs nodes. Great - thanks for the information! I'll go get myself a USB Hub and fire up the soldering iron some time this week .. hope I can share some progress. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What to do with Freerunner / neo1973?
Well after a year I've finally dug out these two gadgets and am wondering .. what to do with them? Anyone got any tips / tricks / suggestions for what to do with these old devices? I'd really like to catch up with you guys that are getting some value out of these devices and what you're doing with them .. so how about telling us old- timers just waking up what the current 'nicest OS' for the Freerunner is? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What to do with FreeRunner / Neo 1973?
Overall Qtmoko has my vote too. Doesn't crash and all of debian. V18 has never missed an sms and is the fastest yet, but X applications are unusable. Btw the cause is already known and will be fixed for next release. For now you can just delete /dev/input/mice before you start X (e.g. add rm -f /dev/input/mice it to /etc/rc.local). Does this just mean there's a bug that prevents X apps from running, or is it the case that you can't run X windows apps on Qt? I don't quite understand the situation but the distro itself looks pretty interesting .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What to do with FreeRunner / Neo 1973?
On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Alishams Hassam wrote: Overall Qtmoko has my vote too. Downloading it now .. ;) Whatever you decide to try, it's going to be easier to have a bootmenu. On your GTA01 i hope you have a debug board or someway to modify the bootloader if you throw on QI. Some fellow released a graphical bootmenu for it a few weeks back and it makes distro selecting very convienient. I've learned to hate U-boot. Yes, I have the board and will try to put QI on my machines as well .. thanks for the tip! That should keep you entertained for a while ;) This is exactly what I'd hoped to hear, and I appreciate the response - thank you! Seems I will have something useful to do with my Freerunner after all .. one question: I'd like to set it up as a mini- ISP, allowing Wireless/Bluetooth connections to share the Internet over the Freerunner - is this possible yet, or is it still pretty much a difficult thing to set up? I've been quite spoiled with my Android phone tethering for all my devices - if the Freerunner could do this easily enough (is there a GUI?) then I'd have a really interesting place to use it .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What to do with FreeRunner / Neo 1973?
On Mar 8, 2010, at 1:20 AM, Brolin Empey wrote: I vote for QtMoko! :) Checking it out now! Thanks for the tip! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Best thing to run on Freerunner and Neo1973 machines today?
Hiya gang, After a few months of ignoring the OpenMoko scene while I concentrated on other things (beagleboard/openpandora) I find myself looking at my neo1973 and freerunner gear, and thinking its time to do something interesting with these devices again. But I have no idea what is going on with the FR these days .. So, I turn to you guys: what would you recommend I put on both/either of these machines for a bit of fun today? FDOM, SHR, something else? In terms of easy-to-get fun factor, what do you guys suggest? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SHR-unstable, GTA01 (neo1973) and GPS?
Hiya, Well, I got SHR-testing up and running on my neo1973 after many recommendations from folks on this list and in the #openmoko channel, and so far it looks pretty nice - can make calls and receive them and so on, and it doesn't crash too much (after I did an opkg update +upgrade), so for now at least the neo1973 seems to be useful for me with SHR-testing .. except for one thing: GPS. Can't seem to get it working. Do we still need to install the gllin package on neo1973? If so, how do I do it 'properly' on SHR-testing? Any advice on this would be appreciated because I'll use the neo1973 as a phone/gps unit if its possible for now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best thing to run on Freerunner and Neo1973 machines today?
SHR is nice. Phone and gps works well. Music player can be made to work well too. Lots of games and other software is available at opkg.org. yeah i'm settling on this for gta01 for now .. it looks pretty well. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR-unstable, GTA01 (neo1973) and GPS?
Do we still need to install the gllin package on neo1973? Sure If so, how do I do it 'properly' on SHR-testing? Just opkg install it. okay it doesn't seem to be working for some reason. the gta01 has sat on the window for an hour, no fix .. FR got one in 5 minutes. (I have my gllin package always on my SD card) Rest should be taken care of by framreworkd. Last time I checked, this worked with FSO and SHR. is there anything special to do with the /etc/init.d/* scripts and setup of the /tmp/nmeaP file, like we used to have to do with OM? But, as the flash space on GTA01 with SHR is extremely limited, you will not be able to install Navit. i opted for a SD-on-root install, with 4 gigs, so this shouldn't be an issue. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android open sourced
At last maybe we will get a stable, usable O/S for the Neo (which I have shelved until such a thing exists). I was using Qt but QtExtended was a step backwards in stability. I am very happy to see Android available for development, I may un-shelve my Neo blow off the dust and help port it! Yup. Hooray if we get it working on Freerunner. Finally something to run on Freerunner that might, actually .. work .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [2008.9] Wifi very unreliable
As much as I love my FR, I must admit that the whole experience had me thinking lustful thoughts about my wife's iPhone... I would say just get an iPhone. I did. Its much more fun to develop for a *platform* rather than a constant dogs-breakfast of disaster. Until someone in the Freerunner world turns the thing into a stable platform, its just going to go on and on forever with nothing ever being fixed, stably, and dependably. I mean, give me a break. Its October, and people are *still* wrestling with WLAN configuration. Can you hackers not see how stupid it is to be fussing with 'pretty stuff' when the most basic things don't even work? I've given up on Freerunner development. Until there is a stable image that provides an Operating System (what we have now: Inoperable) its just not worth the fuss. The Freerunner project has been murdered, in my opinion, by hobby horsing hackers who have nothing but hatred for the end users that *could* be using the thing. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Who has multiple devices?
Wtf .. Please fix the bug! There are plenty of people who might want to mass update their freerunner sets.. ; -- ibi sum On Sep 15, 2008, at 17:51, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Al Johnson wrote: I can't think of a situation where I would accidentally have two freerunners sitting in uboot. If -l shows more than one suitable device you could just suggest they remove all but the one that needs programming and try again. Agreed, that seems like the easiest way to manage it, I'll add this for the next release of my script. Thanks for your info and advice :) -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FDOM (FAT and Dirty Openmoko) Distribution ready to download
p.s. looks interesting - installing now! after a long hiatus away from the freerunner hacking for a month or so (hey, so i got an iphone, sue me!) i am very glad to see that there are folks now sharing booting images! this is gotta be good for freerunner now, which btw i -have- been using as a main cell phone a bit more recently as well too (iphone calls are expensive), so there is trepidation about taking my - Working Freerunner - and putting some random image on it! but, thats what its for, so .. here goes!! me too :) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Raster's Image and chatting on the moko!
(Remember, Raster gets all the credit! I'm just trying to spread the good word about the image!) URL to the image? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Raster's Image and chatting on the moko!
URL to the image? From the linked blog post: http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/ Thanks for that, I didn't get to it yet .. but great that Raster is finally putting out the pimped image we all want to see .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Site reviewing all distros needed? (was: Re: Raster's Image and chatting on the moko!)
I would really like to see a site or wiki page where all these (about 10) distros would be reviewed and compared every x weeks or so.. One could compare the availability of software (gprs, web, gps), stability, power saving features, ability to make phone calls and so on and maybe also list 'biggest annoyances' that then could hopefully be focused on by the developers/community. Is there anyone who could do this? Yeah, this is really needed. I would be happy to try images and report on them every week, I just don't have the time and resources to set up a server that would present the details properly, and I definitely don't want to bury this in the wiki. Something like what the GP2X scene has in the forms of regular updates and reviews would be ideal .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIP on Debian
So some work with the alsa setting and we should have VOIP and maybe even some video conferencing. Excitement! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko apps website ?
the direct link to the packages. Something like this: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ Yes, this is precisely what I hope to be able to contribute to .. its very much needed right now and imho we've got the tools we need to gather this information - scap.linuxtogo.org, planet.openmoko.org, projects.*, this mailing list, etc. If only we had a common, easy to use (interface-wise) site that could be used to collect these details and make them easier to read .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Site reviewing all distros needed? (was: Re: Raster's Image and chatting on the moko!)
This really is the intention of that wiki page, but we can't keep up with testing each distribution. I will be putting more time into testing the different distros. i think there should be more of a 'news and current details' sort of site, more than an authoritative list-of-distro's currently running, sort of thing .. sort of active pimpage. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debian on the FreeRunner -- now official
the FSO packaging team of the Debian project[1] is happy to announce that we have started to provide installation procedures and packages required to have your FreeRunner[2] run Debian-powered. This is really great news! Hooray for Debian rescuing us from the Freerunner dilemna! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!
My thought as I watched it was which OS should he really be trying out? Thats really the million-dollar question. If only there were a site that was dedicated to trying all the possible distributions (what are there now, 7 or 8 different things to run on a Freerunner) and make solid conclusions so that we could decide without having to go through hoops ourselves .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!
The problem of this is: you would have to review them every 1 or 2 weeks because they change so rapidly. so? that'd provide a very lively view of the scene indeed, and i think thats needed. i can't personally set up and run the site myself, or i'd just as well do it, but i most certainly would participate in a weblog'y all- openmoko-news-and-reviews-all-the-time sort of scene with weekly news and updates. what is hot, what works, what is frustrating, what is b0rked, what is fresh, etc. frankly, what development is happening now is not being blagged enough about.. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!
The guy is notorious. http://www.lickmyback.com/the-openmoko-freerunner-first-impressions/ Just remember to take it for what it is - an open-source development platform and project designed to put mobile technology back in the hands of the people who use it, not a consumer-ready fashion statement meant for every day use. What an incredibly short-sited fellow, eh? Doesn't he know that the real hackers are currently banking ca$h selling micro-SD pre-config'ed packages, 10 and 20 at a time, to people who are most definitely, in fashion. oh wait, thats just the edge of it. never mind. pay no attention. there is no train, and thus no wreck. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. If we could get a list of people who are the *main* developers responsible for the contributions in the image, and if those people would then tell us other developers, reliably, how to catch up and keep up with them with regards to code changes and build environments, and if there were a few reliably sync'ed images produced that we 3rd party developers could verify our own local results against, this situation will change. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! Hell yes, count me as interested. Also, anyone want to get a PalmOS emu running? That'd be wonderful, frankly .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opkg upgrade - kernel not updated corectly - Om2008.8
I'm hoping that Openmoko build leader will announce a change to this policy, but at the moment you cannot get Om2008.08 updates from buildhost. Who is that, anyway? Its so confusing. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Explain to me the reasoning behind forking the software at this point. What does it accomplish, besides paying lip service to choice? I'm thinking of the Bible story of Solomon and the two mothers here. What good is half a baby? Wait until there's something /worth/ forking. Can anyone name a product that succeeded by encouraging everyone to fork immediately? I can't think of any examples. F/OSS gives you the /ability/ to fork, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea or a goal in and of itself. In fact, I think the decision to fork is one that should be made with some gravity. There's a whole world between the cathedral and the bazaar. It really boils down to this: encouraging mass forkage in the community is a closed-sourcers weapon against the establishment of a stable community. Microsoft - and others who wish to combat the open source phenomenon - widely encourage forking as it is a sure-fire way to kill public interest in a project. After all, with too many forks, eventually people give up in the confusion. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
silly me believing not understanding irony was an entirely german disease ... He said the intention was basically 'fork early, fork often'. I simply asked 'Why?' He didn't explain the reasoning. There is no reasoning. Its a destructive policy, plain and simple. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How are kernels and distributions related?
Should kernels and distributions be seen as independent (that is, can I update a kernel separately from a distribution, and use one kernel with multiple distributions), or should they be seen as dependent (each distribution should have a separate kernel)? i think distributions themselves will eventually devolve towards bootable one-use applications, managed through hard virtualization. there is a lot of fuss and noise about the importance of standardized installs for those who just want to press a button and work, but if i could deliver a bootable-SD to 1000 customers, i'd have a far easier time as a developer, making distributions irrelevant entirely .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. much more fun, right now, to hack code *on* the machine itself, put up with slow (actually not bad considering how much code gets written in between compiles) build times, but have a development environment that sits on a 512m SD card rather than .. 12 gigs, not counting the VM backups i've been doing over 12 months of tracking mokomakefile .. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Temporary testing and development feeds for ASU
development/unstable trees: http://people.openmoko.org/~zecke/om2008.8-dev/all http://people.openmoko.org/~zecke/om2008.8-dev/armv4t http://people.openmoko.org/~zecke/om2008.8-dev/i686 http://people.openmoko.org/~zecke/om2008.8-dev/neo1973 http://people.openmoko.org/~zecke/om2008.8-dev/om-gta02 awesome, i'm going to use this to target some packages in the next 2 or 3 days .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
I'd be fine with a tar.gz - image to put on SD-card. So size reduction is not necessarily an issue. Actually I'd rather have the complete 2008.08 suite. How are other GTA01 users thinc about that? Marc I like the idea too .. and I'm perfectly content with booting my neo1973 from SD card .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Moving my 2007.2 to SD to try 2008.8 with fallback solution
Will report in case of success. Great! It'd be pretty nice if we could come up with an installable app that will just do the Copy from Flash to SD and re-configure to boot from SD process for an end user. I'd find it quite useful - as a matter of fact I prefer to have my entire system on SD rather than flash, since I intend to load it to the gills with all possible applications I can find! :) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
Ship with nothing and everyone put what want So nobody can say it is not a complete software :) Ship with *all* available distributions on the *SD Card*, and include a script that lets you copy your desired distribution to flash once you've checked them all out .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Network over USB flaky ? - Re: Booting OM 2008.08 from SD - Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
I guess it's pretty flaky :( But still I see some (slow) progress ;) It really could be related to the USB ports on your PC .. if for some reason your PC is not happy with the power-state changes demanded by the Freerunner, then it will reset the USB hard layer, and this has the effect that your internal USB GUID changes, confusing the usb- ethernet driver, and thus giving you inconsistent services. If its at all possible, try running some sort of USB diagnostic app on your PC while this is all going on or check your log files for USB-related messages in the meantime .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008 WTF??
I think managing expectations is the crucial part...even slashdot had a pretty lukewarm response to the FR, going by the comments. Most of the discussion I've seen around the web seems to focus on the preliminary state of the software rather than then openness of the phone. For sure progress will be made, but for sure we can't make progress if we don't confront the problems and communicate about them. I'm with you on the 'go buy an iPhone' response being counter-productive. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Moving my 2007.2 to SD to try 2008.8 with fallback solution
I thought of another way to proceed in between, and started to document it here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Moving_current_system_from_flash_to_SD Great work! I was going to do something similar to this myself this weekend but I'll wait to hear of your results before I do! :) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
he code and are simply configured to be off and/or inaccessible. unfortunately - this is going to have to sit on a backburner and await whatever spare time i find for it as i have resigned from openmoko (effective end of august). Oh dear. I just won a bet (Raster will leave OpenMoko before the end of the year), but I'm not happy about it! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
Not really, I don't see a need - Installing software is not something you're going to be doing five times a day while on the train on the way to work. So? What if I want to install software at least once or twice a week, do I have to have a stylus around all the time? Sure, you _might_ use it once a day, but i think for that one time you can fumble around and find your stylus. And even if you are installing software 5 times a day, on the train and have lost your stylus, you can always use your keys ;) Bah, this is really terrible thinking. Whats wrong with making a purely finger-friendly interface, besides laziness? Its not the 90's, stylus-based computing is not cool. The rest of the world is going multi-touch, no accessories required. We ought to at least keep up. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008 WTF??
Why the developers are spending time breaking things that were previously worked (see ASU keyboard), rather than fixing what's broken and in desperate need of fixing, is beyond me. Yeah I concur with this here, its definitely been a matter of patience, watching things go backwards before they apparently .. any day now .. go forwards. Is it a lack of leadership? For this aggressive undertaking to be successful, it needs at least one person to prioritize, delegate, and lead the other developers. Its a bit hippy-dippy, if you want to know my opinion (you probably don't), and by that I mean that the punch-bowl is running linux. Is there such a person at Openmoko? If not, that's the problem. Having a team of developers, without clear leadership, is akin to herding cats :) I think the best we can hope for is that from the 2008.8 release onwards, we'll now start to see the massive progress we've always been promised as a result of community contributions. I suppose its fair to say that the majority of the platform-specific 'hard work' has been/ is being done by the core OM team, and now its up to us to start contributing. That said, I have not been able to succesfully complete a 'make openmoko-developer-image' for a week, and its been terribly frustrating watching all the bloat of OM go by, with little final 'caught up with the main developers' resuts. I'm going to give it another go, though, so stay tuned .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
screen real estate. i might be wrong but i imagine finger friendly with large buttons and so on, taking up a lot of space. i don't think so, but thats just me. there is a lot that can be done with overlays and sliders and so on that just isn't being done. but enough complaints, off i go to try to do some nice GUI that shows the nerds how things are done .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008 WTF??
Well, that's just mean. It's not like they don't listen to the community or communicate with it, on ALL levels. But it's not like all community ideas can be implemented immideately, and that everyone can be made happy. Anarchy doesn't work even in open source. Well the problem is that the toolchain has such a huge ramp-up to just get started that there really isn't much contribution to the mainline base packages from the community. If we look at the major contributions in the form of apps and new things coming to the platform lately, we do *not* see a lot of them being built using the main OM body of tools - mostly are compiled separately, not packaged into .ipk files, or even better: just plain ol' python based projects that you hand-install. There really is *no* momentum behind the OM build system that I see right now, in terms of 3rd party developers picking it up and getting started with it. You have to sit through a few days of compiling just to catch up with the factory image, and even then there are so many forks on the other side of the fence that you'd be lucky to produce a md5-compatible image using the current build tools. I think 2008.08 is in most ways a step forward. And in the things that aren't like that.. sometimes you have to take a half step back to get two steps forward. Constructive criticism is the best help one can give, but bitching is just stupid. Trudat. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2.5mm neo to 3.5mm stereo adaptor
imho shipping such an adapter within FR box would be a nice gesture from OM -- they chosen an adapter which seems to be not that popular and people struggle to choose 'the right one'. I bet if OM bought in bulk it would cost them no more than 1$ a piece. While we're on the subject, a USB Host/Device Y-cable or adapter would be good to include as well. Come to think of it maybe there is a market for a 3rd party supplier to put together an accessory kit that extends the functionality of the FR beyond 'laser-pointer yielding' and into 'USB device medusa' .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU 2008.08 image
To be fair the wiki points to an equally misleading folder : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/ I guess it was all prep work for the release. Is this the official release location now or what? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
People, please don't forget Neo 1993! +1 from me .. i have two neo's, one of them is broken, and i -still- hang on to hope that they will be useful somehow .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
a tar.gz file would be very useful for booting from SD card... yeah in fact i would favour a less dfu-util'y approach to these public releases, and say .. make the boot-from-SD the norm, rather than an exception, leaving dfu-.. for 'factory default boot config'. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FR at golem.de
Yes, but you can use it only if you promise that you will not show to others how to use it (NDA)! So, for me is like it doesn't exist! IF only we had OpenGL on the Freerunner by now, imagine the amazing apps we could write .. geeze guys, what a big disappointment the Glamo is .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO ringtone
Yeah, Bubble Bobble works, but my favorite has always been the music from R-type... I also loved the music from RoboCop and Maniac Mansion. Crazy Climber FTW!! BTW, we need an openmoko-emu-porters list .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FR at golem.de
Agreed. Why does nobody seem to be addressing/acknowledging this issue (or am I just looking in the wrong places)? An April 2008 post on the mailing list suggests that SMedia want $15,000 to release the docs under NDA to anyone outside of Openmoko employees. If this is the case, and nobody is even prepared to address this issue in other ways let alone pay for it, then for the foreseeable future it seems that this chip will do nothing more than sit there consuming power and the Freerunner will be without any form of graphic acceleration. It is a crying shame. The more we moan about it, the more likely it is that someone who has signed the NDA will produce a fix. ;) Oh no, wait, thats not reality, thats me waking up from a dream .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cpu-speed limitations
That kind of sucks doesn't it. That there is a processor on the chip that could do, say, scrolling independently of the main processor and we aren't allowed to know how to do it. I'm sure it's a great chip, but if we can't drive it in interesting ways: a) it means that Glamo doesn't look very good. b) developers will think that Glamo isn't very good and will ask for something else. Does this scenario work well for S Media? I think the point is this: whoever *has* access to the documentation at OpenMoko shouldn't be working on *anything else* except for getting the features of this chip available to us in the public sphere. If you've got the docs, why work on something that a public community member can work on? Work on the hard stuff - that which we can't get the docs for here in the open community - and push the hardware as much as possible.. please! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cpu-speed limitations
I don't think that this is necessarily the case. OM people have lots of fish to fry and writing a acceleration code running inside the Glamo probably isn't *the* most important thing to be working on. Getting the core kernel, device libraries and some application software working IMHO *is* the most important thing. The thing is though, these sorts of things can be done by people who haven't signed an NDA to get access to the docs. It makes no sense to me that the only people who can do something about the pitiable Glamo situation are instead worrying about other stuff that the rest of the community, unencumbered by NDA's, can handle .. I think you might be shooting the wrong people here. S.Media are the 'bad' guys as they won't/can't provide the documentation. However, if this were always the case then maybe the Glamo was a poor choice. However, I imagine that it *was* the right decision _at_the_time_ the decision was made; everything is clearer with hindsight and everybody *thinks* they would've made a better decision. Sure, sure. I just wish that the most pressing issues of non- operating hardware were being properly addressed. I don't think its cool to buy a phone that has features that go unused, just because we've got an NDA situation going on. We in the Open Source community can route around that damage, and it seems the only way to handle that right now is if the 'official' folks in OpenMoko address the issue. It would be a terrible shame if, after all the 'more important work' gets done, Glamo gets ignored because 'now its time to build new hardware'. I think it'd be rotten, in fact. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 Multitap-pad toggle?
On Aug 5, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Dylan Reilly wrote: opkg install http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_0.1-finger_armv4t.ipk hrmm ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg remove matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod matchbox- keyboard-im Removing package matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod from root... Removing package matchbox-keyboard-im from root... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg remove matchbox-keyboard-applet Removing package matchbox-keyboard-applet from root... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cd /tmp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# mkdir matchbox-keyboard [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# cd matchbox-keyboard [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# wget http://www.ginguppin.de/files /keyboard-ipk.tar.bz2 Connecting to www.ginguppin.de (212.204.60.1:80) keyboard-ipk.tar.bz2 100% || 31233 --:--:-- ETA [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# tar -jxf keyboard- ipk.tar.bz2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# opkg remove -force- depends multita p-pad No packages removed. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# opkg install matchbox-keyboard-inp utmethod*.ipk Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod and matchbox-keyboard- inputmethod) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod and matchbox-keyboard- inputmethod) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Installing matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod (0.0+svnr1910-r10) to root... Collected errors: * Package matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# opkg install matchbox-keyboard-im* .ipk Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-im and matchbox-keyboard-im) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-im and matchbox-keyboard-im) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Installing matchbox-keyboard-im (0.0+svnr1910-r10) to root... Collected errors: * Package matchbox-keyboard-im md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# opkg install matchbox-keyboard-app let*.ipk Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-applet and matchbox-keyboard- applet) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-applet and matchbox-keyboard- applet) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Installing matchbox-keyboard-applet (0.0+svnr1910-r10) to root... Collected errors: * Package matchbox-keyboard-applet md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp/matchbox-keyboard# cd .. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# rm -rf matchbox-keyboard [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# opkg install http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/ matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_0.1-finger_armv4t.ipk Downloading http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_0.1-finger_armv4t.ipk Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod and matchbox-keyboard- inputmethod) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Multiple packages (matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod and matchbox-keyboard- inputmethod) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Installing matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod (0.1-finger) to root... Configuring matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# Collected errors: * Package matchbox-keyboard-applet md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. * Package matchbox-keyboard-im md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
I have a MIDI keyboard I can bring with me to LinuxWorld, and a USB/ MIDI interface. Well I spent some time hacking on it this weekend and I've gotten a basic MIDI parser/librarian/sequencer setup on the Freerunner now .. great fun to play back tracks to my 19 rack using the Freerunner! But I've got some cleaning up to do and some serious catching up to do in the packaging department before I can put this out there for general use - right now its quite a bit hacky to get things started. If your synth is ready in time I'd love to show it. M It would be nice indeed, but I don't think I'm ready to release yet .. I have to get move away from my current hacked-up configuration to a cleaner, public-packaged style setup .. and I can't really do that with the moving targets of our current images, alas .. but stay tuned, because if things go well with this weeks new ASU release, I'll do my work all over again and make sure I produce proper packages that will work for a majority. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Anyway, I'm done complaining. Anyone want to buy a new Freemoko? I'll sell it for $350 with free shipping to anywhere in the US :) my advice is: don't be too quick to get off the train, which is well and truly under way, whatever the load .. having a working freerunner that kicks ass in 2 weeks time, or having it now: its up to the community. which isn't going to stop, just because people are not using the hardware yet .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing for audio playback
Also, I think having the applications disable suspend would be better than letting some system-level daemon guess what the appropriate behavior is. I advocate a principled application of the concept of 'init states' for the entire system, which deal with the running state of various subsystems through the proper use of /etc/init.d/ scripts mapped to various power levels .. If power/suspend has been initiated by the user, then let init start and stop and send messages and such, to the appropriate subsystems that need it, and leave it at that. If some daemon pops up and says 'the user wants init 10', and we've got 'init.d/rc10.d/S,K*' scripts that properly do whats required for init 10, then let init 10 be we're at the office, leave us alone. I know there are all sorts of reasons to abandon init to the wind, but since we're already using init to deal with different system states, if but with a veritable stinginess, then surely it could be expanded? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
There were a number of sites, like Engadget and a few others, that were essentially implying that the Freerunner was ready for general use (as opposed to the Neo1973, which was strictly a developer's phone). well, if you use qtopia, with an eye on the rapid progress, you can at least adopt a holding pattern as good things come along. what i think has happened is, frankly, a bit of a wild hacker mutiny. realizing that, once the hardware is actually out there in good numbers, the distribution wars are *on8*, be-atches, the openmoko 'community' went ballistic, and .. yes kids .. its true, there are more than one operating systems to run on your freerunner, and frankly thats not going to change or 'devolve', its clear. so tell your iPhone homies :P to them having 'the one mans operating system', while you have .. so far .. at least 5 or 6 to choose from. and, thus: the race is on. who will make the freerunner a trully rockin' device? *all* the bits are there, and frankly, with such a big feast, its sure we'll not run out of forks. So, I enthusiastically ordered it, only to realize that it's still, very much, a developer's phone. And not just a developer's phone, but a *super hardcore* developer's phone. well, i have to admit that i think its high time the back-room 'disk image swapping around of' crowd got their thumbs out of their asses and started sharing bootable goods, pre-configured and ready to roll, but thats just me bein' all 'cyber' about it, alas .. I wouldn't mind learning to program for it, but even that's hard to do, since there are a handful of competing openmoko software architectures that aren't really interoperable. consider this: there is *nothing* stopping you from spending an hour or two for a week, configuring and building your -own- distro, from all the parts, slapping a lable on it and installing it on the other 9 phones you've got in your box. the only question then, of course, would be: who you gonna call? Anyway, I guess I'll wait for the software to catch up to the hardware. Meanwhile, I'll keep it tucked away in the closet. i've got mine in my kit, its a very useful linux box to me already, only a 9 or so days into the trip, and i must admit its fun to have when i need it .. i've got mine set up for the local public funkfeuer nodes, just fine, and that means i've got at least a feed or two in the park to read, and GPS maps (weather too) as well .. so thats nice. it is actually *quite* a useful system if you pump some time into it. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
What is the point of having GPS anyway? Its nice, when you're navigating around an unfamiliar area, to be able to have a realtime update of where you are exactly. Its also fun to have a trace of your trip, if you're the kind of person who gets out a bit. Nice in the forests and among nature, for example, to find that 'magic spot' again .. I spend most of my time walking or taking public transport, within a very short radius, in an area I already know very well. I'm just not getting what's cool or exciting about GPS. GPS is a good reason to get out more. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application
I'd *love* to see a motorbike mount! although it would need to be *very* secure, and waterproof my idea for a general-purpose mount for the freerunner consists of your standard clamp - such as used to fix a light to a bicycle - with a fat large industrial strength rubber band length, sufficient to pass through the loop of the freerunner (lanyard hole), thus giving a swivel factor too. but the problem with this is that we need to have a good way to rotate the screen around, of course. sure would be nice to be able to do this with the accelerometers by now, anyway .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 Multitap-pad toggle?
FWIW, I have a tweaked version of matchbox keyboard and an accompanying layout that is finger capable and still usable in a shell. The layout is based upon the iPhone keyboard (do not hate me!) because I figured they spent many dollars on getting it right. It's by no means perfect but I find it very usable. If that interests anyone, I can post is somewhere. count me as interested! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 Multitap-pad toggle?
Displayed just fine for me now .. looks good! I am installing it now .. j. On Aug 1, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Dylan Reilly wrote: Bah. I suppose I should have tested them first. The screen shot app is broken for me and refuses to save valid PNG's. So, no screen shot love for now I am afraid. On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those don't display as images... -Steven On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Dylan Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/keyboard1.png http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/keyboard2.png http://atariland.net/~dreilly/openmoko/keyboard3.png ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Dylan Maxwell Reilly ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: numptyphysics ipk
Responsibility ;) I did it once. Take it, submit patches. Talk to the author :) Have fun. The port is not 'mine'. We should just sync what we do so that we don't waste resources by having two people working in parallel fixing the smae things twice. But I will not fix things the next two weeks as I am on a camp ground. okay then i'll have a bash at it, then .. i love numptyphysics, its a great game, and with fixed to the UI so it works smoother, i think it'll be a great 'here let me demo the freerunner' app to tag along .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
7) Maybe run some simple synth applications on the FR, using the USB host mode to connect it to a MIDI keyboard. this is what i'm doing this weekend .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
you seem very passionate about your concerns. If you are going to linux world I'd be happy to meet and discuss things. Or if you can make a list of specific problems I can try to explain or address your concerns. [reply off-list] ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
About Jay, I apologize if I attached personally it, but he was attaching a lot of person of this ML, and it was not too much nice. I don't believe I attacked any one person specifically, personally, but okay .. lets move on. There is code to be written and new things to be talked about. All griping aside, it sure is fun to have a nice open pocket platform to code for, as stormy as this one is .. Now I wish you a very nice day, and happy programming ( or experimenting). Indeed! Moving on .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
planet.osm.bz2 is 4.2 gigs now, but that's why there are 8 gig microSD cards I guess. :-) Of course being unindexed XML you don't have time to parse and render that much data. Hmm .. that alongside mokopedia, and my 8gig card is *full* to the brim . Cool! :) Hey - maybe *this* is the killer app that puts moko ahead of the pack - a full, open, earth map, combined with the total information of mokopedia, *onboard*, being sold as far and as wide as our languages will allow .. *VERY* interesting! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Nope. Can't compete against a TomTom or any other commercial Navi. But then there is no solution for the Neo: the screen is too small and the speaker too weak. Nevertheless it is quite often quite handy. I'm using it to navigate the streets of Vienna quite happily, Marcus .. it took me a bit of effort to get it set up to do so, but for the most part it works great. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
If you go read Morse Peckham's book http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Rage-Chaos-Biology-Behavior/dp/080520142 You will understand how museuems and gallery's function; and, Sean's words will strike you more deeply. Its all well and good when you're dealing with art students, but when you hope to sell 1,000 Freerunners as the base hardware platform for a multinational operation, it doesn't sell too well. Sorry. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
(We have external LNA) It means it can track with a 16dBm reduction in GPS signal after it made the satellite acquisitions. So if you understood it will get a fix OK with the software workaround, and we saw many people report this, you should expect the tracking phase to work better than the acquisition phase since the signal requirement is relaxed by 16dBm. My experience has proven that this is not the case; yes the fix happens sooner, but if SD I/O occurs during tracking phase, wild errors are still introduced into the GPS signal sufficient to drive us off the map. Just sayin', not trying to stir the pot. I've been testing this GPS fix every day since it arrived, by tracking my progress to work, and if I zoom too closely (meaning there is more SD I/O on map refreshes) the GPS goes wild. That'll be interesting. But in the real world many thing perturb GPS tracking and sophisticated software filters are anyway used to try to see through excursions, I guess this will be the case for typical SD Card usage pattern here. My ride to and from work is through a wide open space with no obstructions, lots of blue sky, and for sure .. SD I/O still massively impacts GPS *accuracy*. Not just in the acquisition phase, but also tracking .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
I would take this to mean that your current location drifts from the actual spot to places not quite where you are standing. Exactly. I will try to upload some logs (just discovered the /tmp change in tangogps, grr.. some test data has been lost) in the next few days that demonstrate this factor, just so its clear. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I'll try to follow some of other people's instructions (they seem to be scattered all over the place) and see if I can get it working on ATT. I've never tried this before, but if I should be so lucky, I'll create a step-by-step tutorial for others to follow (or maybe write a script to automate the process). I believe SettingsGUI has some features around this issue, so you might want to check into that and help out with that if its feasible .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. Likewise, but it would be nice if we had some dyndns support pre- configured so that Freerunners everywhere could function, rightly so, as pocket-based web servers. I love the idea of being able to see, physically on the screen, whenever someone is downloading something from the webserver in my phone. This would be *Fantastic* for software delivery services for a new realm of independent developers .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
Yes Jay. That is exactly the goal of this company. Sell 1,000 phones. They we all can retire. -Sean wtf? you're ridiculing a single order of 1,000 phones being placed at one time by an enthusiastic customer? sheesh. what sort of CEO are you? *all* orders, large and small, are worth the effort, or is that not true? i suggest you think about this a little. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
Yeah it was a misunderstanding then. That's exactly what I was referring to. Too many emails :-) Only a joke Jay. Nothing personal. okay, so please consider this .. i have a customer with the potential to place an order for 1,000 phones. when do you propose i go to them and close the deal? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ppp support not in the kernel?
We must stop bad modules being accepted by the kernel. If the packaging will use the git hash patch in EXTRAVERSION it will be good. the question i have is this: who is making the decisions about what goes into the kernel, modules-wise and built-in wise? the reason i have this question is that i very badly want to add more gadget_* style drivers to the openmoko base, so that we can for example use it as a storage device, or ethernet, or audio/midi device, or heck .. even as a gadget HID device .. so how do we go about arranging things with the 'kernel guy' whoever that is, to allow this change? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: numptyphysics ipk
http://wwwpub.zih.tu-dresden.de/~mkluge/numptyphysics_0.2_armv4t.ipk For usage etc. see the project home page: http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org Awesome! Great to see some fun on the Freerunner! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
We're not done with what we can do to mitigate it in software. These guys should be in tomorrow's kernel. okay i'll continue testing and logging in the meantime .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: numptyphysics ipk
Would someone be willing to post a video on YouTube of them playing this game on their Freerunner? When Crayon Physics came out people flipped when they saw it running on a tablet. I think a video on YouTube would help get Openmoko some additional exposure. Certainly I'd be willing to do a video of it, as it is very addictive and I do enjoy playing it, but I think some of the user interface glitches need to be fixed first .. it'd make for a smoother demo, and we really need to keep in mind in this day of the Jesus Phone, that any little nit matters. We can't demo something where you can't select one of the 'go to next level' buttons, for example .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ppp support not in the kernel?
It's one of those lovely situations that someone is not going to be happy either way :-) I have made the patch for this and will send it out on kernel list as an RFC. really, though, root-on-nfs is a common use case for Freerunner? in which case, we may as well add a tftpboot option to the default u-boot menu, no? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
So, to me, GPS works great now. I had more problems with accuracy of my Garmin outdoor device. on todays drive home i also did a trace - and got wildly sporadic results when tangogps had to read maps again off the disk .. i do not have the latest kernel, however, as it doesn't appear to have propagated to my device yet. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
My question, and apologies for not being specific enough, was to allow the FR to host a website (maybe just w/ redirects or not) and/or an ftp server. Being able to ssh into my phone over the public internet and or serve content would be phenomenal. Has anyone dug into this? i have my freerunner connected to my local WLAN and am ssh'ing into it that way, instead of using the usb-ether approach, and it works very well. quite fun, in fact, to have it stay in the pocket of my shirt and still keep hacking away from the laptop. as long as you can get your freerunner on the WLAN and give it an ip address just like any other host, you can get into it. as far as using it as a web server, for sure openembedded has lighthttp and even a pared down (or is it bloated, i forget?) apache too, so thats entirely feasible. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: numptyphysics ipk
then simply vi list.txt whenever I need to know the exact name of anything. also do 'opkg list_installed installed.txt' whenever you want to check whats onboard your freerunner already - i found its helpful to have such a list when you are doing frequent image swaps and upgrades and if you do it after a fresh image install, and then again before you wipe the image, you can get a diff of only those things you personally installed in the meantime. one thing i'd like for opkg to have is the ability to maintain a complete 'set' of installed packages in a database i can put on another system and do a 'sync' with .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
I think my first project will be called MokoBingo! (with the exclamation mark!)! It will check the mailing list on a regular basis and the Freerunner will make a squeaky noise when any of the following terms are encountered: heh heh .. please do this! :) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere. Last I checked, no one put a gun to your head and forced you to buy or design for the FR. If you're tired of waiting for the device to become stable, sell the phone and check back again in about a year. What part of 'open' don't you get? Its open. I can criticise if I think its necessary. So once again, if you believe your time and money has been wasted on the project, cut your losses now and go. Develop for another device until the neo becomes more palatable to your tastes. I'm hacking on Freerunner daily. Its my chosen platform. When I criticise the strategy and the approach being made to establish a platform, its because I intend to stick with it. Wouldn't make sense otherwise. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
And while Openmoko is working on their own framework, I have to agree with many other voices: knowing which platform to develop for, as a developer myself, is confusing. I don't like the thought of having to write multiple versions of an application that caters to GTK and Qt separately, although I recall that the FSO framework is trying to bridge that gap. But I also don't want to have to market my application as only works on 2007.2/FSO because I use GTK because that's the route I chose to build my app. More important to note is the hassles involved in *testing* for all the differing platforms. I've got lofty dreams that my applications might actually be worth it to someone. But if I have to support them on all 4 different platforms, thats 4 more phones I should buy and set up with the different environments .. hmm .. Personally, I signed up to help manage the wiki to make it a better source of information. I'm working on developer tutorials. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
If you need a benevolent dictator to lead, why not become one yourself? Because there is one already, he just doesn't have any power to make smart design decisions because of some new-age hippy-dippy faff. If you need standards why not make them? This is not a responsibility of the Openmoko team. They already gave us the damn thing to build it all on. This really is the job of the community. Stop whining and start doing the job yourself if you want it done. It's no one else's responsibility. I am: building apps (a game, a time tool, a music system), and: working on developer tutorials to help my fellows also build apps they are interested in. Stay tuned. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying where he's trying to come from. Thank you Kalle .. no, I'm not trolling, yes I am voicing a strong opinion, yes I do think the Freerunner is a cool device to hack on, no I don't have any plans to abandon my work, yes I would like it if there was a little more spirited organization towards delivering a *finished* system that targets users and which developers can stably approach. I'm not saying that everybody should immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's not like there's only one truth. Indeed. Keep in mind people, the Freerunner is not the only open- hardware project out there (Pandora, I've got my eyes on you, baby), its just one that has a lot of hype going for it because of the general interest (Apple) towards beefier cell phone computing .. how many times have I looked at iPhone with hungry eyes, goodness .. Trying to silence and belittle people who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're never at least unfounded. Linus is a champion. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
having to do battle with the ugly, ugly, OM
elephant.
2. How to pick and choose your toolkits, and what are available.
3. How to target the different images that are out there already,
effectively.
truly open way. However, if we're to have a benevolent dictatorship,
then at least we need to know that's what we have. When people know
what to expect, they are less likely to get their feelings hurt.
I'm not bothered about hurt feelings, I'm bothered by the prospect
that my applications won't have any users because the OpenMoko phone
experience turns people away and so they just buy iPhones instead.
Like it or not, we *{are}* in the same space as the iPhone, gadget-
wise, whether we developers agree on the technical details or not:
teenage girls and their grandmas don't know the difference.
Again: it's been less than a month that the device has been on
sale. I
believe the Openmoko team has clearly been working overtime and
doing a
great job at an overwhelming-sized task. Everyone take a deep breath
and let's find ways to work together. (And, please: answers to some
key
questions?)
Brian
Well done, Brian, on formulating a positive, rational view of the scene.
;
--
Jay Vaughan
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
This does not work. That is all. As Sean already said. You are only speaking for yourself. I am not alone in my view. I am glad that OpenMoko is not just another half-open half-closed effort that once thought: Oh look Linux. It doesn't cost a dime. Let's make something that is flashy and blinks and develop it as proprietary as we always did. I'm glad OpenMoko has as many rabid fanboix as other projects, it means there is hope yet .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: compiling on the freerunner ( coreutils / git )
3 weeks. so i have to compile everthing directly on the freerunner. I know, it's a bit slow :) . If you organize your project properly, you won't really be limited by slow compile times .. btw : i am using a ASU image, and opkg list doesn't come up with git or coreutils. As far as I know there are no packages for either tool - you'll have to build them yourself. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
I am no one to tell to you how to use your time, but I personally thing that continuing to use your time to repeat how many stupid things Openmoko do, and complaining how many fanboy there are, is not the best way to help this project. Then do you what do you think is better! I don't think rabid fanboix'ism is going to help the situation. There *are* negatives to whats going on with OpenMoko; perhaps you don't see them because you haven't been attempting to write applications for the platform, as I have for a year now. Certainly, unless there is pressure to address the faults in current strategy which are making it /so/ /very/ /hard/ for 3rd-party developers to ramp up to productivity in promoting, and using, the OpenMoko platform, then it won't happen. OpenMoko *need* to know that there is dissatisfaction in the ranks with the way they are dealing with these issues - I'm only one of about 15 people who have shared the same views as me, and I'm vocal about it because *I care*; sycophants and dilettantes are not going to make it easy for them to see they are turning developers away, and making it difficult to get behind the platform in a big way. I do believe we can build a great product with OpenMoko. I just want to make sure that the OM community realises that there are issues at hand which *must* be addressed if we want to make it as big as we all desire. Certainly the current fractious nature of the distribution, the feature regression and creeping bugs are not making it easier. Something must change. All this in my personal opinion! Thanks for sharing it in a manner we are all entitled, since this is an Open project. And thank you to all those people who have shared their opinions with me privately. If any of you wish to continue to voice an opinion about Jay Vaughan and how much time he is wasting, please feel free to do so - privately, off-list. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
@Marcus - My main job is to sell the Neo ( I work for a distributor) and tangoGPS is the application that impresses my clients (and me) the most (even though we hardly have OSM data for India!). I would love to see it continue to be developed. (Offline maps is something that people have asked me about also. If you have some suggestions about making that possible using OSM data and I am sure you will find a lot of community support to make that happen) It is very interesting to hear of your travails in India .. here in Austria, the map data is available for the most part, and what I have done with TangoGPS is navigate all over the areas I need, while connected to the Internet, and 'soaked the cache' as much as possible. This is a very rewarding experience, somehow, especially with daily updates to my datasets (trace tiles!) .. and it can be used in offline mode pretty well, if you give it space. So I hope you come up with good data for India. I always wanted to have a map of the entire world available in my pocket, so maybe we get closer and closer to that .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
Try Qtopia, its more what I expected a phone like this to look like, and it mostly works. I tried it, but to be frank I'm a little more inclined to want to go with the 'open' side of things, even if its messy and chaotic, than the 'commercial vendor slipping us open guys a sugary treat so we don't out-do them' approach, which is what I think Qtopia is, really .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Howto compile more kernel modules with MokoMakefile?
I want to compile the USB GADGED STORAGE module for the kernel how I have to do this? You can't use other Gadget devices currently, because Gadget-Ethernet is compiled into the kernel (not as a module) and this precludes any other gadget drivers from loading. As I am currently working on Gadget Audio for the Freerunner, I too would like to see this situation resolved properly at the distribution level. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Howto compile more kernel modules with MokoMakefile?
You can't use other Gadget devices currently, because Gadget-Ethernet is compiled into the kernel (not as a module) and this precludes any other gadget drivers from loading. As I am currently working on Gadget Audio for the Freerunner, I too would like to see this situation resolved properly at the distribution level. That's frustrating. I had imagined the gadget functions could coexist so we could provide both network and storage. It sure is frustrating, and imho is a bit of an oversight on the part of whoever-it-is that is responsible for making command decisions about the configuration of the OpenMoko distro. Personally I think for sure we need to pile on as many g_* drivers as possible, and that means reconfiguring the current distros to make g_ethernet a module, not compiled -in .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: wifi
SettingsGUI still has to be ported to GTA02 and the FSO image. This is what I'll be doing here during the next days. I'll be very happy to test on GTA02 and GTA01 concurrently, and help out any way I can. I think SettingsGUI could make a lot of mundane OM tasks a lot more pleasant, frankly .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
[snip] This does not work. That is all. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Sorry to hear it doesn't work for you. But like I said, we each have our own ways of understanding and making meanings. You are free to create your own meanings. I just can't see how you honestly believe all this panty-waiste dilettante waffling about not having a design because its up to the open community is going to drive things forward. Are you, or are you not, committed to delivering a working phone platform that *users* and developers alike are going to be interested in? Then: some standards need to be put forth, and they need to be adhered to. Because at this point, it seems to me that you've just pissed in the koolaid. Basically, you're just selling incomplete, mediocre hardware in order to cash in on the Open Community meme, or what? Please, for all that is merciful and mighty, *get a design* for the current systems done, and make sure your team of superlative wizards adhere to that design. Provide, at the very least, a reference platform for your daily bread. Lead this community, don't just throw its fates to the winds of its own desire; that is *doom* for all who have invested so far in the hopes that the platform grows sufficiently to make the not insignificant effort to play along, worthwhile. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Openmoko is trying to do what can: is trying to build a phone. It is trying to build a running open hardware: It will not be perfect but it will be open. You will know all the defect and compromise token to get it. Then is your choose. And don't tell to me that OM hardware is broken because you know it, while other firm's hardware that keep all closed, are prerfect because you don't know about defects? I'm fully aware that hardware companies cover their asses with software fixups. Thats not the issue I'm declaring, which is: please can we have some attention to the design, so that we're not constantly chasing an unknown. It is *important* that such things as a usable GUI, which looks nice, are presented very, very rapidly - there is no other way for our projects to snowball than to attract the interest of those who will use the hardware. So far, nobody is enjoying the usability experience, terribly much, and this is because of this attitude that 'the community will fix it'. In this situation there is no way to drive a community. We must to stop and to think on ourself. What we did on our phone? I guess this is really the essence of the situation. I remmeber when there was the GPS/SD problem, how a lot of person outside OM and inside OM started to work togheter and WE did a miracle. Sorry, its one thing to fixup the GPS/SD issue (which is still borked), its another thing entirely to sit down before you commit any further silicon and say this doesn't work, it is not to our specificaiton, we need to /design/ it better. Glamo, SD, GPS. Three things we really do *not* want to talk too loudly about, if we want to continue to attract developers.. and I am fairly convinced that it is the lackadaisical attitude to the qualities of the hardware, which would ordinarily be addressed through a *strong* design ethos, which brought this situation about. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
