Re: Stop whininig / be friendly
On 21 May 2012 09:51:00 +0200 openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) wrote: Hi Harald, thanks for your advices, which are intelligent ones, really. You are right, bitterness is what I feel. Why ? Openmoko forget to buy MP3-patent rights. The german customs seized my 500pcs-pallett order from China. I had to sign contract with patent holders, which is valid since 2017. So 5 years more I am a f.. slave [...] Thanks for that tidbit, you should probably right about it, officially, as one more argument against software patents. The way I see it, software patents on MP3s really *actually* hurt the inovative (mostly in that it is the most open phone around) OpenMoko project and its few distributors. This should not be hushed. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: server update
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:44:23 +0200 Harald Welte lafo...@gnumonks.org wrote: What we have in mind will definitely be an entity that most people will have heard of, not some obscure small group... From the top of my hat I'd hazzard FSFE or Software Freedom Conservancy... I wonder what the end result will be :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status GTA04 GroupTour
I just posted about it in my blog and Google+ page, now forwarding it to identi.ca (which forwards it to twitter). http://blog.1407.org/2012/01/01/gta04-free-software-smartphone-group-buy/ https://plus.google.com/111476378907603803049/posts/5vbJyoeDSLu http://identi.ca/notice/87924177 http://twitter.com/#!/RuiSeabra/status/153475257783689216 I think we should make more publicity about this in places where more people may reach these lists here are preaching to the choir, some outreach is a must! Rui On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:50:40 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hi all, that status of the GTA04 mass market group tour http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%20Group%20Tour is that we have: * passed half time yesterday * first early bird batch is sold out * but still only 16% preorders (56 units) * we have approx. 6 weeks left to fill the remaining gap of 84 % So I would say that we are still far away from becoming successful. If I read that over 2 Million new Android units have been activated over the Christmas holidays [1] and 4 Million iOS devices just on Christmas day [2], I can't believe that we do not find 350 potential buyers in 60 days... Well, we don't have a real mass market device and I think we should not even pretend to have one, in this phase. Because we are then compared to the 100 EUR Huawei Android/UMTS units where one has to suspect that the workers in China are being ripped off... What do you think should we do to make this group tour a success? * extend the subscription timeframe until we reach 100%? * ask for/collect donations to extend the early bird rebates? Some sort of sponsorship by community members for community members who can't afford a new GTA04 immediately? * have more resellers or buying groups to order batches of 10 units? * talk more about the benefits and special features one can only find in a GTA04 and nowhere else? * subsidize GTA04 boards by combining them with a UMTS contract? * offer to pay only part of the price by end of the subscription time frame so that we can already buy the expensive and difficult to source components, but postpone production individually until the remaining payments arrive? (i.e. pay 200 EUR until 10th Feb and the remainder until May) More ideas are welcome! But please keep in mind that we can't develop something completely new until February and components cost what they cost... The simpler the idea the better! And, there may be ideas which are too big for a single community member, but may become feasible if we all work together, contributing many small pieces. Curious about your ideas, Nikolaus [1]: http://www.giga.de/macnews/newsticker/ios-gegen-android-42-millionen-ios-26-millionen-android-aktivierungen-am-weihnachtstag-256890 [2]: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/27/holiday-gifts-drive-new-ios-device-activations-sharply-higher/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:04:31 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. That's too bad, but the outer shape was awesome (except for the excessively huge bevel, there should be some, but not so much). The Freerunner has an awesome format to be held horizontally on your hands, with the pointer finger around the curve (a natural fit) and the thumbs to press on the surface. Too bad it's not good enough hardware to take that advantage in hands, but it's an awesome shape that Apple won't sue you for :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The idea of making the MOKO tab
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:32:19 +0100 (CET) Alexander Lehner leh...@edv-buero-lehner.de wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, elf Pavlik wrote: Someone have just showed me yesterday this one: http://wetab.mobi/en/ It says 'Open Software, Open Hardware' but don't seam to me like open source hardware... Still it runs version of MeeGo as you can see on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBUdiPZ1hA Ha, I applied to this company a few years ago, when the product was still in the pre-alpha phase. I guess it was shortly after the Neo came out and I was interested in opensource development. I didn't take the job for other personal reasons. But there already the whole sofware and hardware stack seemed not open at all. So if you take all disadvantages of the NEO and the iPad, you will get this 'weTab'. (Sorry weTab-guys for the hard criticism). Similair to FIC/OpenMoko, their business plan seems not to work out. And I guess there is no community around the weTab at all. Maybe also have a look at the new 1-Laptop-per-Child XO/3 tablet (german news site): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/OLPC-Gruender-will-Tablets-mit-dem-Hubschrauber-verteilen-1374592.html (Hardware is still a mock-up, of course...) I still prefer the 'wooden-case' version after all these discussions ;) WeTab is quite awesome, WeTab OS... not so much :) I'm running Fedora 16 with GNOME and Enlightenment on my weTab. Running Enlightenment is almost like a Moko tablet :) Much better support than most arm devices all around with Free Software drivers. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Don't feed the Trolls: The Definitive Guide to Trolls
I'm not going to name people, but I advise some people to check out and follow the old age advice: Don't feed the Trolls http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102 Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Liberated Calypso docs found
Em 27-09-2011 07:37, Michael Sokolov escreveu: So to those one or two ex-Openmoko employees who have a copy of the Calypso fw source stashed away on a personal hard drive somewhere, but who are not admitting to that and not sharing the ware: what is stopping you from sharing? Why are you being Bad Guys by withholding highly valuable material from Humanity? Can't be for fear of being fired, assuming that you are no longer employed by Openmoko/FIC. Can't be for fear of being sued, as that is just not realistic. In principle, I would agree with you, however there are laws in some countries where should they do that and be found, they could get into a lot of trouble. WRT NDAs, I'd guess that after so much time, it's likely the NDA is void now. Can anyone confirm? However... there is still copyright law which has gotten radically harsher these last years. In some places, you are likely to get more years in jail for copying a work than from actually stealing it from a store. As such, this is the kind of information that is not very desireable to be associated with a Free Software project, because even if the developers had no problem publishing it, it would be very likely no distributor would ever like it, and even the ISPs used by SHR and others could be harassed until some action is done. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison
Em 21-09-2011 18:28, Alon Ivtsan escreveu: The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever possible. YouTube converts do WebM, but it isn't instantly (perhaps a regular batch job?). Give it a couple of days and it should play like that :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OT: OLPC hw distribution [Was: Openmoko / Medion Wikireader?]
Em 20-03-2011 12:25, Alexander Lehner escreveu: The One Laptop Per child project imo suffers from the same idea. If they would offer their product to the mass market, they would sell much more and finally could drop their price this way for developing countries. I think the OLPC project shoot themselves regularly on the foot by making it very hard for geeks to get the devices (or even upgrades, once they get one). This causes a huge barrier to entry of people with the skills to help. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: performance testing of UNWIND kernel option
Em 08-03-2011 14:01, Gennady Kupava escreveu: Hi, list. Today I noticed the following change in SHR: http://git.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/commit/?id=1516588acd3c4b4dd4add71d06ab8ce0d1bafa02 (by Denis 'GNUtoo' Cariklignu...@no-log.org) and decided to lmbench it. Here are results: http://www.bsdmn.com/lmbench/unwind_summary.txt You can see comparison of: 34def - kernel with CONFIG_FRAME_POINTER unwind - kernel with CONFIG_ARM_UNWIND default - for reference, old debugging kernel The unwind option provide clear benefit of 5%-10% in almost every area. Nice spot Denis! It does feel faster! OpenMoko Freerunner, probably the only obsolete phone that keeps getting better :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It's not a camera
Em 04-02-2011 14:19, Al Johnson escreveu: On Friday 04 February 2011, Benjamin Deering wrote: http://jeepingben.homelinux.net/index.php?level=albumid=26 There is a similar part called a mlx90615 which is much smaller, but also has a smaller temperature range. It may not work with the current kernel module, but could probably work with small changes. The temperature range is still -40C to 115C so probably good enough for many uses. I'd say for most uses! Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] theme 'default.edj' problem ?
Em 04-02-2011 19:55, cyberesprit escreveu: Yes, I use edje_decc from ubuntu-repository ...I'll change it now That's ! Sorry for screaming, but it's so far behind in the timestream one may need to shout in order for it to reach so far back :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko as mouse
Em 24-01-2011 10:46, W. B. Kranendonk escreveu: Hi List, I read about Apple -of all companies- trying to run away with an idea that was discussed (at least by myself, and probably by others as well) on the mailing list as well as off line: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110012838.pdf It seems to cover using a telephone's touchsreen as the input for another system. I would say it's lacks the innovative step necessary for a valid patent, but that's probably only the reasoning of sane people. Would it be something to worry about? Best regards, Boudewijn In the early days of OpenMoko, Valerio Valerio did an awesome program that did this, among many other things... Can't remember the name of the program though. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The epoch is upon me.
Em 21-12-2010 12:55, Gay, John (GE Energy Services, Non-GE) escreveu: The last time my FreeRunner's battery died, the clock reset to epoch. Now, it no longer keeps time during suspend either. I'm guessing this means the clock battery has finally died. Someone recently commented that they replaced their battery with a pair of super caps. I just wanted to confirm my diagnosis before I take a soldering iron to my phone. Cheers, John Gay So that's why my clock...? a) goes back to 2000 without a battery b) takes so long to update the clock in the toolbar and idle screen of SHR Damn, any instructions on how to do this properly? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FOSDEM 2011 Visitor's Guide
Em 15-12-2010 10:39, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Is it possible that just 3 Free Runner's so far have plans to attend FOSDEM? On FOSDEM 2010 I did count at least 70 people crowding the (guest-) devroom. So what are your plans? Nikolaus I'd love to go, but as a 4 month old father who'll be at home for paternity leave by the time FOSDEM plays out, I would need to have very good (and virtually free) conditions guaranteed to even think of going :| Otherwise, it's a no go for me. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1
Em 12-12-2010 13:50, Thomas Zimmermann escreveu: The bug with the keyboard resizing is known too, i forgot to mention this. Bug it is just ugly and i don't know if i will switch to a newer E just for this, because newer E means often more new Bugs :) For eve and ewebkit i have to take a look there were some more problems and i thought i included the working version :) For the other bugs i will have a look too in the next days. I thought the keyboard resize and efl-webkit fixes were included. If not, they are definitely worth it for shr-t. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Wikipedia
Em 29-10-2010 21:55, Stefan Monnier escreveu: This is done to protect users from malware, Please don't spread such misinformation. It is done to keep control of the device away from the user. I.e. it's only correct if you define malware as program that the company doesn't like, whereas I think it's usually understood as program which does things that the end-user doesn't like. Many pre-installed software on today's popular devices are actually malware (tho only discerning users realize it). Yeah, and useless as certain malware apps have popped up into Android and iPhoney. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] Desktop icons de-arranged with recent image
Em 03-11-2010 23:36, Martin Jansa escreveu: Found fixed today http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/changeset/54140 It will be in feed tomorrow. Verified! Great catch! Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] Desktop icons de-arranged with recent image
Em 01-11-2010 21:44, Alexander Lehner escreveu: Today I flashed the Nov-01 shr and now all desktop icons are arranged only one column wide. Has anybody else seen this? For some reason the icon labels are no longer elipsing (getting ... to shorten the name). As such, if there's onw with a very long name (eg, Vagalume) they don't fit the area anymore and the smart placement has no other option than to use a single line (what's very funny is that it gets fast as hell). In the meanwhile, you can find the .desktop file of the offending application and shorten the name by hand. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [gta04-devel] Fwd: FOSDEM 2011 Devroom on SHR/FSO declined
Em 31-10-2010 11:23, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Not me. A lightning talk about the state of FSO on foreign hardware makes no sense to me and the program of the embedded room seems to be fixed to buildsystems, C libraries, and kernel tweakings for years now. Yes, that is also my impression. What we can do is to organize our own virtual devroom. Idea: * we open a page fosdem2011 on wiki.openmoko.org * everyone tries to get a presentation into all relevant devrooms -- Mickey @ Telephony -- Nikolaus @ Embedded or Lightning -- Serdar @ Distribution miniconf -- SHR @ Distribution miniconf -- etc. * on the wiki page we collect the time, location, title etc. to provide our own Openmoko view into the FOSDEM database... What do you think? And have the meetings at nice bars in Brussels center ;) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA04] When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Em 19-10-2010 16:13, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Today, we received the first PCBs for the GTA04. It has passed a mechanical test (just some connectors and buttons mounted) and this bare board fits exactly into the GTA02 case. Next, some chips are soldered and we do measurements. Before we solder the more expensive components (CPU, UMTS module). I will keep you updated. Nikolaus Great news! :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Em 09-10-2010 15:15, Chuck Norris escreveu: Dudes, what you think about normal usb instead microusb? many devices can be easily plugged into the phone. Not for long usage of course. flash drives, tv tuners, keyboard, gamepad, etc... µ-usb means a much smaller piece, contributing to smaller size, lesser weigh and particle penetration (dust, all) and more compliance with EU law. Don't know about prices, on one hand it's more common so should be less pricey, but on the other hand it has much more material. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Em 06-10-2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ escreveu: * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen A phone is the perfect size to integrate: * personal communication (phone, IM, social network) * always present camera (still or moving pictures) * computational needs (ssh somewhere, do stuff) * run useful programs (like email, web browser, games, other apps) For these to run well in a phone you need at least 480x800. The Freerunner's 480x640 is definitly too small for most web browsing. If I go one step further in size, I'm talking about tablets: From personal experience with a SmartQ7 (now sadly broken), I attest the following: 480x800 is *not* enough for displaying a more complex document properly (eg, a PDF with readable text and pleasently displayed), you need a bigger screensize. So when you consider such small resolutions... it's definitely not for me. But good luck, though. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voicerecording software needed
Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new problem. Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work? Rui Em 04-10-2010 18:43, Alexander Lehner escreveu: Hi all, I am looking for a SW to record audio. I found some (dictator, voicenote, monologue), but none of them seems to work properly - the development seems to have stopped already for a while. I try to avoid writing the 1000th script using arecord etc., also it should be useable by children... Thanks for any hint - Alex. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Devroom for FOSDEM11
How about: Talks about the past, present and future of hackable mobile devices, respective development platforms and communities Best regards, Rui Em 30-09-2010 00:24, Serdar Dere escreveu: I will register the hackable mobile devices devroom now, which day would you guys prefer? Sat. 12-18 CEST Sun. 10-17 CEST my devroom description is: Talks and discussion about hackable mobile devices like Openmoko, Nokia... Do you got a better one? Greetings Serdar Am 27.09.10 22:28, schrieb Serdar Dere: your suggestion is: hackable mobile devices? sounds good to me. I am calling for papers for some (or all and more) papers I suggested previously. MfG Serdar Am 27.09.10 20:50, schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Am 27.09.2010 um 20:14 schrieb Serdar Dere: Hi guys, I am taking the initative again, like the last time. Kudos to you! But I would change the topic. Last time it was called Openmoko Devroom, but I want to change it to Hackable Devices Devroom for next FOSDEM. Sounds good to me. As far as I understand the policy of the Devroom decisions they favour more general topics instead of single projects (although there are some). If I look through the list of topics, there should be a little more focus on hackable *mobile* devices (there are routers, embedded boards etc.). Also note that there was an Embedded Devroom collecting a lot of different topics every year (I think in 2007 Sean's presentation was part of that). See: http://archive.fosdem.org/2010/list-devrooms-their-call-talks Embedded / Mobile (contact email) The embedded/mobile room is the place to be for people with an interest in everything small, hidden, with different CPU's and/or a gadget or mobile device. Here we discuss and present things like hacking your phone, PDA or router and everything about cross-compiling. The people that gather here are usually doing tons of cool stuff with small low-powered devices, from playing music to controlling big and complex systems. So we must somehow differentiate from that or we simply get merged. What do you think about it? ++ My intention is, that other projects can join us, like Nitdroid, or the goldendelicious guys with other projects. Definitively! In that case we can get more than one day and 3h for us. What do you guys think about it? Second part: I would love if some people who can help on following topics can contact me: * History and future of Openmoko or/and hackable devices * SHR * FSO * QTMOKO * AOF (Android-on-Freerunner) * HACKABLE:1 * DEBIAN * GENTOO * GAMERUNNER * MER * OPENWRT * QALEE * THINGS I CAN'T THINK OF (not important that all are represented but it would be nice) Thanks in advance. Greetings Serdar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPRS is broken
== /var/log/fsogsmd.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:11.427395Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:3: URC: [ %CSQ: 31, 99, 4 ] == /var/log/fsogsmd.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:15.923119Z [INFO] PdpPppMux : PDP Context Status now FREE_SMARTPHONE_GSM_CONTEXT_STATUS_OUTGOING 2010-09-19T11:48:16.131438Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:3: URC: [ %CSQ: 31, 99, 3 ] == /var/log/fsogsmd.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:18.276473Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:3: URC: [ +CGREG: 2 ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.298187Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +CSQ - [ +CSQ: 31,99 , OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.321223Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +CREG? - [ +CREG: 0,1, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.355635Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +CREG=2;+CREG?;+CREG=0 - [ +CREG: 2,1,0002,05E7, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.382536Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +COPS=3,0;+COPS? - [ +COPS: 0,0,vodafone P, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.411392Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +COPS=3,1;+COPS? - [ +COPS: 0,1,voda P, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.440701Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +COPS=3,2;+COPS? - [ +COPS: 0,2,26801, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.472286Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +CGREG? - [ +CGREG: 0,2, OK ] 2010-09-19T11:48:18.500670Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:2: SRC: +CGREG=2;+CGREG?;+CGREG=0 - [ +CGREG: 2,2, OK ] == /var/log/fsotdld.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:18.521836Z [INFO] SourceGsm : Received GSM network status signal == /var/log/fsogsmd.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:20.800956Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:3: URC: [ +CGREG: 1,0002,05E7 ] 2010-09-19T11:48:20.804015Z [INFO] libfsotransport 0710:4: SRC: D*99***1# - [ CONNECT ] 2010-09-19T11:48:20.807791Z [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting. 2010-09-19T11:48:21.388358Z [INFO] fsogsmd : Binary launched successful (FsoFrameworkFileLogger created as theLogger) == /var/log/phoneuid.log == 2010.09.19 12:48:21.024988 [libphone-ui-shr]WARNING: Activating PDP failed: (4) Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) == /var/log/fsogsmd.log == 2010-09-19T11:48:21.837368Z [INFO] LowLevelOpenmoko : Registering openmoko low level poweron/poweroff handling 2010-09-19T11:48:21.838200Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem 0C: Ready. Using lowlevel plugin openmoko to handle vendor specifics 2010-09-19T11:48:21.847418Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem 0C: Ready. Using pdp plugin mux to handle data connectivity 2010-09-19T11:48:21.867858Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem 0C: Modem Status changed to FSO_GSM_MODEM_STATUS_CLOSED == /var/log/phonefsod.log == 2010.09.19 12:48:21.937943 [phonefsod] MESSAGE: Inhibiting suspend during startup phase (max 360s) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My N900 experience compared to my FR experience
Em 16-09-2010 09:30, Patryk Benderz escreveu: [cut] so it will stop working? he he. nice ;) Not nice nor fair, where are your lines of code in help of SHR? I'm not a core developer, but at least I'm making a (sort of) kickass StatusNet client :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: running Xorg as non-root (with xserver-xorg-video-fbdev)
Em 06-09-2010 19:05, Timo Juhani Lindfors escreveu: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org writes: I expect that would be more because it tries to read /dev/input/event3 (or 4 or both) and perhaps doesn't have enough privileges? No it's because it uses the accelerometer which is a LED device and thus chown/chmod can not be used to grant permissions. chgrp and chmod appear to work, or I'm not understanding what you mean? r...@om-gta02 ~ # ls -laF /dev/input/event3 crw---1 root root 13, 67 Jan 1 1970 /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # chgrp disk /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # ls -laF /dev/input/event3 crw---1 root disk 13, 67 Jan 1 1970 /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # chgrp root /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # chmod g+rw /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # ls -laF /dev/input/event3 crw-rw1 root root 13, 67 Jan 1 1970 /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # chmod g-rw /dev/input/event3 r...@om-gta02 ~ # ls -laF /dev/input/event3 crw---1 root root 13, 67 Jan 1 1970 /dev/input/event3 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using freerunner as webcam display
Em 06-09-2010 00:24, Alexander Lehner escreveu: Just one strange thind to mention: opkg update/upgrade from my prior version crashed my phone and the power button started to shine in magenta! Never seen this before, but it was really nice. (We could use this if the SIM card was detected as TCom provider...) I usually ssh into the phone, stop X so it wastes less memory, and only then do an upgrade (specially if it's a lot of stuff). Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: running Xorg as non-root (with xserver-xorg-video-fbdev)
Em 06-09-2010 10:01, Timo Juhani Lindfors escreveu: Hi, just out of curiosity I tried running Xorg as non-root. I was surprised that it worked since this does not seem to be advertised anywhere. So, consider yourself informed! Details are at http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2010/09/msg00091.html This is awesome, and a good step to remove a lot of risk. Only problem in shr is the whole lotta stuff that still needs to be fixed (eg, the opim stuff *should* move to $HOME/.config/freesmartphone/opim rather than /etc/freesmartphone/opim ), samething for alsa statefiles, etc... Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: running Xorg as non-root (with xserver-xorg-video-fbdev)
Em 06-09-2010 16:04, Timo Juhani Lindfors escreveu: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org writes: This is awesome, and a good step to remove a lot of risk. Only problem in shr is the whole lotta stuff that still needs to be fixed (eg, the opim stuff *should* move to $HOME/.config/freesmartphone/opim rather than /etc/freesmartphone/opim ), samething for alsa statefiles, etc... I've been happily running all my X clients as non-root for more than a year. I have seen problems only with applications that are specifically written for openmoko (e.g. mokomaze)... I expect that would be more because it tries to read /dev/input/event3 (or 4 or both) and perhaps doesn't have enough privileges? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Leaving the Openmoko community, new wiki-admin needed
Hi, Thank you for your work, so far, and that you took the time to announce your intention is very much appreciated (better than suddenly dropping out). I don't remember Joachim, but I hope he's still paying attention to the mailing list. I offer my will to help with this task, unless someone else wants it. Best regards, Rui Em 31-08-2010 14:59, Marko Knöbl escreveu: Dear Openmoko community! I have previously worked as the administrator of the Openmoko Wiki for the last year. Unfortunately I have to announce that I will stop my involvement in the Openmoko community and so a new admin is needed. The reason for leaving is quite simple: I broke my FreeRunner last weekend at a party. Although I enjoyed my time with it I won't get another one. (Instead I'm getting an N900 and hoping for MeeGo or Debian + FSO to provide a free OS for this device soon) As I am leaving a new admin is needed in the wiki. The main task for such an admin would be deleting pages which are either outdated or spam. More information on the process of deleting pages can be found here:[1]. If you are willing to assist the community by taking over this task please contact a wiki sysop and request more rights on the wiki so you can delete pages. I think Joachim Steiger (Roh) is the one to contact for this purpose. I will continue the task of deleting unwanted pages until someone else will get admin rights - but not longer than one month. I wish you all the best for the future. It has been great to be a part of this project! OT: As my involvement in the Openmoko project is over I'm searching for new challenges. I'm planning to take a break for several month now, but afterwards I might consider writing some documentation again for some project related to N900. So if you're working on a related project and need assisance with documentation just contact me and maybe I'll join. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Editing_Guidelines#Deleting_pages ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: xrandr -o, left and xrandr -o right always rotate to the same direction
Em 30-08-2010 23:16, Benjamin Deering escreveu: Hello all, Now that the touch screen input is being rotated along with the screen in the latest SHR-U, I have been playing with omnewrotate. Even with the latest version, a few things need to be changed. Using the other accelerometer (/dev/input/event4) seems to work a lot better than the default. Only because that version is still considering relative values and not absolute values, which are the current settings. I'm commiting r68 in a few minutes with fixes for this behaviour change in accelerometer data. It's not a recent change, but I didn't notice because until recently frequent rotations would eventually get a white screen. It still isnt possible to rotate the screen to the right, or to invert it. The image will be displayed upside down. I don't know where to start looking for the cause of this. Any ideas? It is possible, but in an Orwellian way, left is right and down is up! Should be a bug in glamo... Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: xrandr -o, left and xrandr -o right always rotate to the same direction
Em 31-08-2010 01:09, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra escreveu: Em 30-08-2010 23:16, Benjamin Deering escreveu: It still isnt possible to rotate the screen to the right, or to invert it. The image will be displayed upside down. I don't know where to start looking for the cause of this. Any ideas? It is possible, but in an Orwellian way, left is right and down is up! Should be a bug in glamo... glamo xorg driver! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Em 13-08-2010 10:37, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly Ah, so you'll not be using any Android/Linux, I see :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Em 13-08-2010 10:56, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Em 13-08-2010 10:49, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements yes; * I accept any price yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500 euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment; Add me as a metoo if you want. I had a Nokia 6600 (I regret the 500€ but I extended them as much as I could), shortly after I learn of OpenMoko. I decided to try to keep 6600 until Freerunner comes out, but sadly one year before that I sent it for a 20 min swim. Still no Freerunner, so I get a cheap Nokia 2760 (GTA01 was clearly too early for me), lasts until today carrying my job's SIM (the work phone is *that* crappy). My main phone, carrying my personal SIM is OpenMoko and I'm treating it as carefully as I can to extend it's life well beyond the current two years, 1.5 of them with definite usage :) If it breaks, and no viable alternative exists, I hope to get an A7+, or A7, or A6, or A5+buzz fix (in this decreasing order of preference). Even with all the bugs and immaturity of the platform, I'm so passionate for Free Software I rather go through all this again than go back to proprietary phones or get a pseudo-open phone (Android/Linux, Meego, etc...). To all SHR and FSO core develpers: a *HUGE* thank you, I'm only sorry I can't help out more. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2+4+2 timing seemed to disrupt access to the sdcard
Em 31-07-2010 01:02, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) escreveu: On 26/07/2010 - 10.58 +0200, Helge Hafting wrote: I have been using the qi with 2+4+2 timing over the weekend, and noted two problems. (This with shr unstable and its 2.6.32 kernel.) First, lots of WSODs. This required lots of suspending (or reboot) without seeing the screen. This is not always possible, so lots of battery removal. Using this kernel [1] the WSODs stopped (I'm using this SHR unstable running from a µSD card)... However with it I can't use my wifi device. It isn't found at all by the phone! [1] http://www.bsdmn.com/openmoko/glamo/242/shrkernel_nows/ Have you tried to load yourself the ar6000 module? With July 30th SHR-U image I had to do that... modprobe ar6000 See if it brings wifi back to life (should be automatic but something is wrong). Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-T] Images from 29th of May
Hi, Em 22-07-2010 09:33, Risto H. Kurppa escreveu: 4) Iliwi is missing a button to disconnect from a network What's the use case that would compensate the wast of screen area? Select another network? Just connect to it (can't have two at the same time anyways). Disconnection? Just close iliwi. If anyone decides to add a disconnection button, I suggest it is something like an hover of possible actions after pressing the network for a short period (like 1s) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR shr manual: Don't use sudo with dfu-util
huh? I've always used dfu-util with sudo without a problem! Granted for some time I haven't used as I'm now booting via sd card, but I never had any problem. Em 14-07-2010 09:17, Petr Vanek escreveu: The SHR manual contains a note: Don't use sudo with dfu-util. Make sure you are root before using dfu-util! Is it still an issue? Has somebody reported it as a bug so that it could maybe be fixed? Please let me know so this note can be removed. thank you Petr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pisi won't synchronize.
Cool, thank you very much! :) Em 06-07-2010 21:28, Michael Pilgermann escreveu: Hi Rui, I fixed this - type PREF is now ignored. Your test is going through well. Fix is in the git repos already; will be coming with next PISI release (0.5.4). Best Michael I have a couple of contacts with TEL;TYPE=CELL,PREF:number or TEL;TYPE=CELL,WORK:number but those fields never get imported if they're the *only* TEL field. I could only import them only after changing to TEL;TYPE=CELL:number ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My N900 experience compared to my FR experience
Em 07-07-2010 20:27, Brolin Empey escreveu: I know the N900’s kernel is relatively old (2.6.28.x) and the N900 is less open than the FR, but this does not matter to me because it is an acceptable compromise in order to have a far better experience with a more powerful and current device. Well, if you first remove the proprietary parts in order to get an equivalently free device with the N900, *ONLY*THEN* will you be able to make an intelectually honest good comparison. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Firewall
Em 17-06-2010 18:59, Shosholoza escreveu: It is possible to use this script with SHR unstable? I tried but I found this error: Starting iptables firewall: iptables: No chain/target/match by that name. iptables: No chain/target/match by that name. Yes, but you may have to load the right modules. I have this *very* basic script to setup my Neo's firewall (see attachment). Hope it helps. Rui #!/bin/sh iptables=/usr/sbin/iptables $iptables -F INPUT $iptables -F OUTPUT $iptables -F FORWARD $iptables -P INPUT DROP $iptables -P OUTPUT DROP $iptables -P FORWARD DROP # prepare for accounting $iptables -F GPRS $iptables -N GPRS # my laptop and me $iptables -A INPUT -i usb0 -s 192.168.0.200 -j ACCEPT $iptables -A OUTPUT -o usb0 -d 192.168.0.200 -j ACCEPT # allow outgoing NEW traffic regardless of interface $iptables -A OUTPUT -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED-j ACCEPT # allow incoming related traffic regardless of interface $iptables -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT # accounting $iptables -A OUTPUT -o ppp0 -j GPRS $iptables -A FORWARD -o ppp0 -j GPRS $iptables -A INPUT -i ppp0 -j GPRS # forward and masquerade traffic from my computer $iptables -A FORWARD -i usb0 -o ppp0 -s 192.168.0.200 -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT $iptables -A FORWARD -i ppp0 -o usb0 -d 192.168.0.200 -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT $iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: HTC patent application for Joerg's Y-cable?
Em 07-06-2010 16:00, Al Johnson escreveu: As Joerg says, I don't think it should be worthy of a patent. Unfortunately courts in the US have been progressively lowering the obviousness bar to the point where it's patentable unless someone has explicitly described it already before the priority date. It's not just software patents that are broken that side of the pond. And it's not just on the US either, particularly in Germany where recent developments are, to say the least, very troubling. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Em 25-05-2010 07:05, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are too early to really pose this question since for solid market research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature list and target price). For me there are a few requirements about it: * it has to fit *inside* the freerunner box, or I'm not interested * it has to have a working GSM chip, or I'm not interested * it should be possible to port SHR (preferred) or Meego for it with little trouble, or I'm not interested This is only because I both: 1) use the Freerunner as my main phone 2) don't have the time to make it all work If these issues were gone, then maybe we could talk prices, but not before, at least for me. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pisi won't synchronize.
Em 05-05-2010 14:31, Michael Pilgermann escreveu: This got fixed. Please upgrade to 0.5.3. If you are not on SHR-U; here is the link for manual download: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/all/pisi_0.5.3-r0.4_all.ipk I have a couple of contacts with TEL;TYPE=CELL,PREF:number or TEL;TYPE=CELL,WORK:number but those fields never get imported if they're the *only* TEL field. I could only import them only after changing to TEL;TYPE=CELL:number Also, could sync have a one-way-only mode? I have over 200 contacts so it's quite slow to fix the issues with one contact... if I try to sync a vcf with only the contact to be fixed, it syncs both-ways thus taking a long time. If it could be told to sync one-way only, then it would look for similar contacts and sync them on OPIMD (or whatever) from the info contained in the VCF. Thus, a bit like a VCF importer ;) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko 0.5.8 is out!
http://blog.1407.org/2010/05/01/omnewrotate-0-5-8-is-out/ OMNewRotate 0.5.8 is out! I’ve just released omnewrotate[0] 0.5.8 which integrates Tim Abell’s improvements to rotation sensitivity and I’ve added some code so it is smarter about detecting the paths for setting the brightness level while rotating which changed in more recent Linuxs (2.6.32 and beyond, I think). As I’m running SHR-Unstable, your mileage may vary but it’s likely it will work :) As usual, the download links are at the project’s Google Code site for omnewrotate (see the featured downloads section): * the ipk of this release[1] (OpenPGP sig[2]). * and its tar ball[3] (OpenPGP sig[4]) SHR-unstable users should only need to upgrade omnewrotate. Enjoy! Links: [0] http://code.google.com/p/omnewrotate/ [1] http://omnewrotate.googlecode.com/files/omnewrotate_0.5.8-r2.4_armv4t.ipk [2] http://omnewrotate.googlecode.com/files/omnewrotate_0.5.8-r2.4_armv4t.ipk.asc [3] http://omnewrotate.googlecode.com/files/omnewrotate-0.5.8.tar.gz [4] http://omnewrotate.googlecode.com/files/omnewrotate-0.5.8.tar.gz.asc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OmNewRotate 0.5.8 is out!
Em 01-05-2010 12:36, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra escreveu: http://blog.1407.org/2010/05/01/omnewrotate-0-5-8-is-out/ OMNewRotate 0.5.8 is out! Obvious typo in subject :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Em 19-04-2010 13:49, Vibhav Sharma escreveu: On Saturday 17 April 2010 11:49 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: http://www.google.pt/search?q=olpc+tablet It's would be a real killer if it has a reflexive screen like XO-1 and XO-1.5 * low energy requirements when backlight is off * visible even with direct sunlight * color! (well, I don't know if reflexive mode can support it, in current XO's it can't Seen the NotionInk Adam. Just google it. Specially check out videos. Seemed interesting until I read it uses NVidia Tigra. Not anymore. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 179, Issue 23
Em 17-04-2010 10:02, Christoph Pulster escreveu: I consider the idea, that the future of open source hardware could be this: taking high-quality hardware from big players like Apple, which are sexy and free of bugs. But jailbreaking/reflashing the bootloader, installing a free OS. Sure, we get in some dependencies of the HW manufactorer and this is not the 100% clean way like Copyleft-concept of Qi is (well this is a very European idea, maybe some Russian crackers are more intelligent in some practical way). Won't work. One word why: drivers. You'll always produce a sub-standard alternative to the official OS that comes with the device. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Em 16-04-2010 23:02, Kosa escreveu: I ain't no expert on this, but since iPad is being a succesful mobil device, we could give a chance for a BIGGER Freerunner. Of course iPad won't sell as many pices as the iPhone has, but 400k seems good for a start. There's a huge market for the big touchscreen devices. There is a project for such a pad at the OLPC. Joining the effort seems like the wisest choice, to me. http://www.google.pt/search?q=olpc+tablet It's would be a real killer if it has a reflexive screen like XO-1 and XO-1.5 * low energy requirements when backlight is off * visible even with direct sunlight * color! (well, I don't know if reflexive mode can support it, in current XO's it can't) Add to it new Comix/Evince/etc... interfaces oriented to touch screens, and you'll have a huge success if it's cheap, so featureful and open. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: how to contribute to open source projects
You don't have to let anyone in, that's your power :) But you're creating artificial barriers to participation (no public read-only SCM -- at the very least -- so people can work on their patches and adapt to changes in main trunk until they get their patches just right, keeping aces up your sleeve, etc...) You say you do that because of forks, but that behaviour's precisely what incentivates forks :) Rui Em 12-04-2010 22:55, Marcus Bauer escreveu: Hello Rui, you certainly know that I value your opinion a lot. Just the other day there was a storm going on about a remark of Scott James Remnant from Ubuntu who is an outstanding developer, very much committed to advancing Ubuntu. People who have never done any contribution flooded the bugzilla and flamed him. Foul behaviour needs to be sanctioned, otherwise it ruins the whole basket of apples. User experience is key. Actually I have received several supportive emails today from people that have similar amounts (or more) of Google hits in connection with Openmoko than I do have. As wrong as it is to go for weeks to argue with these people it is to let it go through without response. There were at least three other projects in the last four years with a similar scope than tangoGPS. Where were the people complaining about not being able to participate in the development of tangoGPS when those projects were open for participation, where are their contributions? Foul play needs to be clearly identified and pointed out. I rather doubt that those people have got plenty of invitations today to join other projects but I'd be happy if that would be the case. I don't know what your current main project is, but feel free to invite them. Let me know in 4 years if they are still actively contributing and I'll cover myself in ashes :-) Have fun with them and please take them away from me and thousands of happy tangoGPS users and integrate them in your projets :p Marcus On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:17:30 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: Hi Marcus, Reading your comments, I'd say you're quickly running several steps of How to destroy your community - http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ I won't go into the details of listing which is which, and please note that my felling on that is *PURELY* based upon your emails and not on what others claim or feel or actually passed through. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: how to contribute to open source projects
Hi Marcus, Reading your comments, I'd say you're quickly running several steps of How to destroy your community - http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ I won't go into the details of listing which is which, and please note that my felling on that is *PURELY* based upon your emails and not on what others claim or feel or actually passed through. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AAVA Mobile?
Em 06-04-2010 15:05, arne anka escreveu: The issue is really what they mean by open. which of intel's hardware does not have open source, intel supported, drivers? if they really make all drivers available (as with their graphic adaptors and wifi), it would be more open than the freerunner, wouldn't it? Except that I don't expect them to make things easy on the following devices: * graphics card * gsm chip * gps chip * wifi chip * bluetooth chip While the Freerunner isn't perfect on all of those (independent computers running it's own firmware), at least none of them require you to run a proprietary driver thus restricting kernel, X11 and other basic software upgrades. They provide an AT command interface you can speak to the chip without blocking the rest. If it's at least as open as the Freerunner, I'm willing to accept that for the time being, while I wish a truly open hardware phone to come up. However, a truly open hardware phone will require funding by someone probably richer than Mark Shuttleworth, who has an interest in it :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AAVA Mobile?
Em 06-04-2010 07:02, Werner Almesberger escreveu: undrwater wrote: I'm wondering if this is a re-badged product discussed here previously, or something relatively new? Looks like something new. It isn't quite clear to me what semantics they attach to Open, in particular whether the openness is supposed to come from the mere fact of being an x86 platform and inherently PC-ish, or whether it also means an absence of binary kernel modules and similar kinds of joy. Or it could just mean that they'll license the design to anyone, which would indeed be more open than anything else on the market, even though at a different level. I'd also be curious about battery life. If they've indeed managed to make an x86-based phone with a battery life that compares to a good ARM-based one, that would be very impressive. There's of course also the question to what extent x86 matters for mobile phones today. In terms of processing power, already ARM seems to offer more than enough for most purposes. In terms of compatibility, they don't seem to aim for straight PC-compatibility anyway, and the concept of an app store, having been given a very pronounced shape by Apple, has changed the landscape. It's supposed to be Intel's Moorestown, which is aimed, I guess, at ARMs, so it should be comparable, at least. The issue is really what they mean by open. Nokia N900 is *not* open even if you can install another OS not blessed by Nokia, as important functionality is clearly missing. Same goes for many other open phones around the spot. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OMNewRotate 0.5.7 is out!
http://blog.1407.org/2010/04/04/omnewrotate-0-5-7-is-out/ After about 11 months since the previous release, I've just released omnewrotate 0.5.7 (after short lived 0.5.5 and 0.5.6 as I found out a dangling patch in SHR-Unstable's recipe and did a mistake on the 0.5.6 release) which integrates Tim Abell's init script change and the aforementioned patch. As I'm running SHR-Unstable, your mileage may vary but it's likely it will work :) As usual, the download links are at the project’s Google Code site for omnewrotate (see the featured downloads section): * the ipk of this release (OpenPGP sig). * and its tar ball (OpenPGP sig) Enjoy! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Upgrades for SHR-unstable
Em 01-04-2010 14:38, Thomas Franck escreveu: Hi.. Please 'opkg update; opkg upgrade' and reboot afterwards. Done so.. when I checked again it was screen was black (locked).. I tapped it.. and that image was very very scary.. ;) April Fools day and all, I suppose.. will it change with the an update tomorrow? :P Oh I sure hope so! My first thought was: .oO( OMG, they killed SHR! You bastards! ) ;) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Comparing A5 and A7 sound settings
Em 17-03-2010 20:54, Niels Heyvaert escreveu: And it's all fine and dandy if it wasn't so damn easy to casually change the mic volume into some unusable mode. One setting works a lot better (at least for me) and I only need to check it after upgrades! Rui Hi Rui, Can you put your sound settings on the Wiki too? Just so that others can see if it works out OK for them. Only saw this now, I was in vacations. Will do. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Comparing A5 and A7 sound settings
Em 16-03-2010 06:23, Timo Jyrinki escreveu: 2010/3/16 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: ' You may call my tests misinformation, but I'll calmly go on with usable sound settings with which I can be heard even from a noisy restaurant by *NOT*USING* the Correct setting. I am not claiming the wrong settings would not help. The main thing is that it should be possible to achieve the same situation with other settings, while keeping the audio path more sane. If it works for you, fine, but it's not exactly how the audio path should be configured in general. I did use wrong settings myself to a satisfaction for a long time, but they shouldn't be used in general. If you see http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg58185.html - for example the same effect as raising control.12 from 5 to 7 like some people do when they feel they have too little microphone volume can be had by increasing control.5 by 6 values, but without having additional stage of amplifying (keeping control.12 at 5 means 0dB). The exact effect of setting Mic Sidetone Mux (control.63) to Right PGA instead of Mic 2 is not known, but it uses a wrong audio path and a similar way of lessening noise and mic volume should be done by using control.5 (mono playback) instead. And it's all fine and dandy if it wasn't so damn easy to casually change the mic volume into some unusable mode. One setting works a lot better (at least for me) and I only need to check it after upgrades! Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buzz is not Fixed
Em 14-03-2010 12:07, Toni Mueller escreveu: after getting my device back (months ago) and putting the first semi-working distro on it (SHR unstable from Feb. 24th this year), sound has improved from pure buzz to semi-intelligible buzz like on an old military short-wave walkie-talkie. It's very hard to use if there are also environmental noises, which there usually are. I verified that the buzz fix hardware is there. I'm using a T-D1 card on a contract in Germany (not reseller or prepaid). What now? My A5+buzz fix gets reasonably good sound if I change the Mic Sidetone Mux to a value other than the correct value. Can you try and see if it works for you too? I have it like this, under current SHR Unstable: r...@om-gta02 ~ $ grep ^63 /etc/freesmartphone/conf/GTA02/alsa-default/gsmhandset 63:'Mic Sidetone Mux':1:3 Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Comparing A5 and A7 sound settings
Em 13-03-2010 17:48, Timo Jyrinki escreveu: Mic Sidetone Mux: 'Mic 2' = the correct setting, please try to not spread misinformation that it'd be wrong simply because it happens to also increase the volume and therefore buzzing as well if other settings are high Mic 2: '3' (= 0dB) Mono Sidetone: '5' (= 0dB,) Mono Playback '100 (= -21dB) (for buzz-fixed A5 I had this around 115) You may call my tests misinformation, but I'll calmly go on with usable sound settings with which I can be heard even from a noisy restaurant by *NOT*USING* the Correct setting. I have an A5+buzz fix, and I get better sound with this surgical change than from ever toying around with volume which, by accident, can be set to unusable easily, otherwise. For me, after upgrades, I always check for the 63'rd value of gsmhandset to be 3, rather than 2. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [[SHR all] Read this if Call screen and messages dont work - a.k.a.- fixing dissappearing call window, segfaults and name-to-number resolution
Em 15-03-2010 23:36, Bernd Prünster escreveu: mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.opimd \ /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Contacts \ org.freesmartphone.PIM.Fields.ListFields I get r...@om-gta02 ~ $ mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.opimd \ /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Contacts \ org.freesmartphone.PIM.Fields.ListFields Segmentation fault r...@om-gta02 ~ $ (updated yesterday). Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rolling dices on OpenMoko
Em 08-03-2010 18:13, Xavier Cremaschi escreveu: - for 3D : OpenGl or ??? I am not sure about using OpenGl or not... I know the tech, and OpenGl would be great when soft runs on PC, but what about openmoko ? AFAIK, because of a lack of OpenGl ES support, any OpenGl app would run on mesa/software-acceleration-by-cpu. Without OpenGl I don't know how I can do 3d, any idea ? Don't worry so much about fancy hardware 3D support for effects, better a simple 2D fast and working app than fancy but slow or not working. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My FreeRunner’s USB port still works for power, but not data?
Em 03-03-2010 19:19, Brolin Empey escreveu: Brolin Empey wrote: Now my FreeRunner’s USB port works for power, so I can still charge the battery, but not for communications, so I think a solder connection must have come undone. I need to try disassembling my FreeRunner to check the connections for the USB connector so I can ask someone at work to fix (resolder) the connection, but I have not yet done so. It must be a hardware problem because QtMoko can still charge, but nothing happens when I connect USB devices to my FreeRunner: no kernel modules are automatically loaded, there are no kernel messages. Manually loading the kernel modules (e.g., dm9601 for my USB→Ethernet adapter) for the USB device does not help. It is not because of the electrical/logical USB host/device setting because I checked that; I know how to use sysfs to change it. I don't want to seem cocky, but did you try do ifdown usb0 ; ifup usb0 in vala-terminal? If still has no IP and connectivity, ifconfig usb0 IP netmask NETMASK ? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Palm Pre] Code-Sprint next week!
Em 26-02-2010 18:06, morp...@gravedo.de escreveu: After the sprint is over we will report what we have done and which tasks are open to help us to get a full featured FSO rootfs for the Palm Pre. Awesome news! Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gta02-core (was Re: OM future)
Em 25-02-2010 01:39, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) escreveu: boys with the big pots of money are surprisingly close there. rome wasn't built in one day. fight the battles you can win - dont fight the impossible ones. sure - it's not as glorious. it's not as sexy. but it gets you one small step closer to where you'd like to be. you may never get it. that's the nature of compromises. but you can get some of it at least. Oh come on, don't beat them with a stick, if you don't have people working on this now, then when the time comes there will be pretty much nothing to show and all the time of development will have to start *then* instead of now :) The beauty of these communities thing is that one resource spent in developping gta02-core is not one resource not spent in SHR because (and I might be wrong here because I'm not into gta02-core) most likely gta02-core people don't feel as excited writing software for a smartphone environment (PIM, call support, other apps, etc...). As such, gta02-core people are not diminishing SHR people, but complementing. Hugs, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rutgers University writes malware for Freerunner
Em 23-02-2010 08:23, Jakob escreveu: On 2/23/10, Michael Smith openm...@netapps.com.au wrote: Having your web browser run as root is very dangerous. I hope we fix that soon. -- Michael Smith +61 416 062 898 http://glitch.tl ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community It's not hard to run your browser on the neo as user. Though it should be made default. e.g. in SHR one could ask the user at first startup to create a user and then run the browser, piding and all those internet applications with the rights of this user. Everything should be run as the user. Using dbus should be enough for getting the priviledged stuff done at FSO level. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rutgers University writes malware for Freerunner
Em 23-02-2010 18:42, GNUtoo escreveu: On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 00:08 +0100, Petr Vanek wrote: as my middleware fails to bring up GSM interface 9 of 10 times lately, i guess i am pretty safe from any bad hackers' attacks! But what if you get attacked from wifi? I think we need help on security in openembedded(the build system SHR uses): *no security team and potentially outdated and vulnerable packages,but sometimes people fix security bugs... *On SHR and many default images root is the only user *I bet we have no selinux support but because of the previous issues it becomes irrelevant. I'd like to help with that, if someone could introduce me to the right people. My technical background is on systems and firewalls administration at the portuguese payments network. Best, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM future
Em 23-02-2010 18:41, Mike Crash escreveu: You talk something else than me. I didn't said anything about usage and development, only about the phone. Take a today phone and try to use it as GPS. In some hours you are out of battery, not very usable for a weekend in nature. I think that can be said of each and every computer with Neo's capabilities (or better). You say, that Neo is like laptop in 2000? Nope, on laptop you can write documents, make programming etc. On neo you cannot I beg your pardon? WRT typing: Neo doesn't have a keyboard (only on screen emulation). Get a laptop from 2000 without a keyboard or mouse. Neo can do more (you can type on the screen). Now add a bluetooth keyboard: suddenly you can type a lot better. The small screen is very limited. Yes and no. The advantage of being a nice GNU/Linux computer is that you get your normal applications. The advantage is, you get your normal applications but they are not thought for small screens. We need smaller UIs, I recently asked the AbiWord guys to promote a Google SoC Neo can be used as GPS, for access to internet (especially reading), book reading, as MP3 player etc. But not as mobile office. If you are clicker, yes, but for real work no. Also consider the open source community - it has not the power to take the lead. And no power to make really open phone. Not without any involvement of some big manufacturer. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rutgers University writes malware for Freerunner
Em 22-02-2010 21:52, Andrew Stephen escreveu: http://www.technewsdaily.com/hacked-smartphones-could-be-used-to-spy-on-you-100222-0237/ --8-- The researchers say their intent is not to just scare people, but to inspire action. What we’re doing today is raising a warning flag, Iftode said. We’re showing that people with general computer proficiency can create rootkit malware for smart phones. The next step is to work on defenses. The team used an open-source smartphone called the Openmoko FreeRunner running Linux software, but they emphasized that with enough time and effort, any smartphone operating system can be attacked with malware. The Rutgers team plans to use their results to inspire developers to create new ways to detect and prevent rootkit attacks on smartphones because none exist right now. --8-- Considering the number of things I have to turn off, I'm not surprised anyone found a way to deliver malware through SHR. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ar6000 (FR's wifi) bugs, workarounds and CLI usage tips, read this for stable wifi
Em 21-02-2010 15:50, arne anka escreveu: please, explain power cycling. rebooting ar6000 (one of Freerunner's computers). Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ar6000 (FR's wifi) bugs, workarounds and CLI usage tips, read this for stable wifi
With small variations upon your script I have: 1) ~/wpa dir with the following contents: r...@om-gta02 ~ $ ls wpa/ amigos.wpacasa.wpa gomaxperf spot.wpa wifi-dhcp.sh (the .wpa files are wpa config files with special setups). 2) maxperf is for the weird cases: r...@om-gta02 ~ $ cat wpa/maxperf #!/bin/sh wmiconfig -ieth0 --power=maxperf 3) go just glue's Paul's commands (but required a bit more of sleep time in order to work reliably, and using sh instead of bash): r...@om-gta02 ~ $ cat wpa/go #!/bin/sh CONF=$1 set -x fsoraw -r WiFi -- sh -c sleep 5; wpa_supplicant -i eth0 -D wext -c $CONF sleep 10 wpa_cli -a /home/root/wpa/wifi-dhcp.sh -B -G100 4) and wifi-dhcp.sh is slightly modified (for instance, I don't have dhclient): r...@om-gta02 ~ $ cat wpa/wifi-dhcp.sh #!/bin/sh if [ $2 == CONNECTED ] ; then udhcpc $1 pkill -f wpa_cli -a wpa_cli -a $0 -B -G100 fi 5) running the following works, and recovers wifi when resumed after suspend: cd wpa ; ./go casa.wpa Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Jefliks Jabber-Client release
Em 17-02-2010 16:16, Davide Scaini escreveu: Yes i found that :) I tried with that sever, but it gives me IO Error 7 gmail wants ssl, my guess is that sasl is not ok (and tsl of course)... (i'm not an expert, not at all) so right now it does not work :) d Perhaps it will work if you apply this fix: http://code.google.com/p/elmdentica/wiki/httpsSupport Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtmoko] New significant speedups coming to FreeRunner
Em 15-02-2010 13:03, Radek Polak escreveu: I think the slowness of the graphics can be explained by not having the kernel-modules installed. The slowness is more likely because SHR runs on top of X while QtMoko draws directly to framebuffer. A framebuffer device is usually slower than a native driver under X. My Freerunner's UI performance definitely felt a bit faster after moving to the native driver. I also noticed this in my SmartQ7 after moving from the framebuffer to a native driver. The slowness of the graphics is better explained by the brain deadness of the hardware. Now... Qt from framebuffer devices is very highly optimized, so it may be a bit faster than other Windows managers, but it also does a lot less (like not being exactly a window manager). Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: elm_browser initial release
Em 14-02-2010 02:26, c_c escreveu: - preconfigured to handle https Hmm, I could add the /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt to the ipk for now. What do you think? Please don't! It should be in it's own package, and not provided by each application. If you want, while it's not in its own package, package your own (/usr/share/ventura/ca-certificates.crt for instance). However, thank you very much for that tip, so my elmdentica code works with SSL but all it lacked was that file... I copied it from my laptop and now I have SSL working on the Freerunner, so cool! Anyone knows of a package that has this file and should be installed by default even though it isn't currently? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Community Updates] 2010-01-14 released
Em 20-01-2010 10:42, Patryk Benderz escreveu: [cut] I know, I didn't have time to update the CU, but elmdentica's latest release didn't show up :) Hi Rui, sorry we missed elmdentica this time, but it sometimes just happens. Can you point me to your post on ML, where you gave info about new release? Latest i could find in my mailbox is: ElmDentica 0.7.0 is out! dated on 2009-10-12 which is rather old. Could it be, we missed it also on previous CUs ??? If so, than I am terribly sorry, but believe me, getting all this information from many sources and combining them together sometimes is an uneasy task. Sometimes something gets lost in this process. Don't be sorry, it's also partly my fault, it seems that I forgot to forward a mail to the mailing list and add it to the current talk page of the community news :) It went into the planet, unless something wrong happened. Anyway, it is the latest article in http://blog.1407.org/tag/openmoko Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community action required: Wikipage with FOSDEM 2010 activities and attendants
Will you do #1024 bug fixing @ FOSDEM? How much would you charge for it? BTW, same question for other companies who will show up :) Rui Em 18-01-2010 07:21, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Hi all, I will attend FOSDEM 2010 and give a talk about experiments with GNUstep running on the Freerunner. Here is the schedule: http://fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/gnustep_porting_quantumstep But since I am sure there are many more attendants and activities, I have started a Wiki Page where you can register yourself: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=FOSDEM_2010 This all should ease to keep the community from being thinned out during such a large event. And I am sure that there are many new things to learn and nice people to meet around the Freerunner. Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: elm_browser initial release
Em 14-01-2010 04:24, c_c escreveu: Michael Smith-5 wrote: If you want bookmarks then keep them on a server somewhere as a list of links. I was thinking of adding those to a sqlite db. Fast, simple, efficient. I keep my bookmarks as a html page (firefox bookmarks.html) and browse to it to launch from. Maybe a similar list of html links on a local page as the startup page will be nice to launch from. I really can't suggest strongly enough to use sqlite as the place to store bookmarks, specially if you add keyword organization instead of merely hierarchichal. Thanks for stepping up with that project, I was thinking of doing it myself but I haven't had much time lately. Best, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Community Updates] 2010-01-14 released
Em 15-01-2010 17:40, Patryk Benderz escreveu: Hello everybody, Recent Community Update is out. Take a look at News link in Community box on wiki pages to read it. For your convenience here is direct link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2010-01-14 and contribute to the new draft at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/Draft_2010-01-28 Thanks to all contributors of this issue of CU: * PaulWise * Kichkasch * Multi * Baba melone * Vanous * Valos * Bt4 * Linuxxr * Deubeuliou I know, I didn't have time to update the CU, but elmdentica's latest release didn't show up :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Quick e-mail poll: Still using your Freerunner?
Em 03-01-2010 06:10, Ken Young escreveu: Do you use FR as your daily/primary phone? Yes. Do you use FR as your primary PDA? There's no decent PDA software for the FR, and I have no other, so No. What distribution you run most of the time? SHR-u Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner gone...
Em 11-12-2009 22:59, Pieter Colpaert escreveu: Hi, My moko got lost. Whether it got stolen or whether it just fell out of my pocket, I have no idea. Today I felt pretty sad and I had some time to think about things every distribution should have just to make sure someone will not slam his head against the wall, repetitively, again and again, like I did, for not installing some basic stuff that might prevent these things from happening. 1. Sms sentry. Put that application, or a similar one, in every light image we got: It will reply the GPS coordinates when texting sentry:location to moko. 2. When another sms is send we should be able to put the volume to max and play a voice saying: PLEASE RETURN THIS PORTABLE, IT IS LOST AND THE OWNER TRIES TO FIND IT. I'd be happy to record that voice. And display contact information on the screen delivered by sms. What do you guys think? Saving €230 with 5 lines of code seems a big deal to me (€230 + sim card + personal configurations + a lot more personal stuff actually). It's very sad to know of this. I hope you can continue to be part of this community by getting another open phone (fancy a new Freerunner?) Best, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [any] formatting text in python elementary buttons
On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 10:09:17AM -0500, Josh Thompson wrote: I'm converting a small app I wrote in python-gtk to use python-elementary. I had some buttons where I was using set_use_markup on a button's label to do things like setting the font color and background. I can't find a way to do that with python-elementary. Is there a way to do so? If there is, where should I look for more info on it? I've been using the source control browsing for python-elementary[1] and looking at shr-settings as a guide so far. Have you tried font color=#fftext/font ? Perhaps it's all you need. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Experiment: better sound on remote end
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 02:56:28PM +0100, arne anka wrote: did you ever change the gsmhandset.state file after applied buzz fix? the tracker links to an improved file specifically tuned for buzz fixed devices and so far used by a lot of peoples. I'm using current SHR with the state file that's provided. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Experiment: better sound on remote end
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 08:31:22PM +0100, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 15:17, David Garabana Barro da...@garabana.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 December 2009 15:12:36 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 02:56:28PM +0100, arne anka wrote: did you ever change the gsmhandset.state file after applied buzz fix? the tracker links to an improved file specifically tuned for buzz fixed devices and so far used by a lot of peoples. I'm using current SHR with the state file that's provided. I can't understand why they changed state file. Old one worked OK on most Neos. New one sounds bad on almost every one... You can try the state.file from old SHR... Here old one was unusable at all here, new one is quite good. And new one was official Openmoko's one, and now you can adjust volume with sliders in UI - so what's the problem? Speaking of the sliders, are they persistent in the value they set? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 07:26:57PM +, Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/11/7 Neil Jerram neiljer...@googlemail.com: Thanks. I think I'll look at adding this into the e17 WM. I have some code ready to share now. What would be the best way to do that - bearing in mind that the aim is to facilitate contributions and new packages for the Freerunner? If the E project is still interested in illume changes, I guess I could send changes there. But if illume isn't of ongoing interest now, maybe some Debian or SHR repository would be better, or maybe I should set up a new repository somewhere? FWIW, as well as the discussed rotation support, I'd also like to - add a GPRS/PDP toggle to the GSM gadget - add a fast charge menu to the battery gadget - fix the battery gadget so that it it goes up to 100%. So I think there's a strong case for an ongoing FR-focussed e17/illume codebase. There's an illume2 project at enlightenment, perhaps a good spot for it? It has seen some action recently, perhaps thanks to Samsung's sponsoring? Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present....
Bad XMas present, bad! :! Sorry, it's quite nice, but mrmoku's image from Friday 13th works better as a phone. Forgive my anger but today I almost missed being interviewed on a major portuguese radio about our horrible CyberCrime law (similar to the german horror)... fortunately I still had mrmoku's image on another µ-sdhc card and quickly replaced it Good news regarding CC law... the Chief Inspector of the investigative police agrees with us (Free Software activists) and wants the law changed, as well as the president of the association of judges :) Rui On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 05:01:03PM +0100, Thomas Zimmermann wrote: -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -- Betreff: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present Datum: Donnerstag 19 November 2009 Von: Sebastian Spaeth sebast...@sspaeth.de An: SHR-devel shr-de...@lists.shr-project.org, SHR-user shr- u...@lists.shr-project.org [Nov 19 2009, The Internets] It's been psychologically proven that the longer you wait for your presents, the more happy you will be when you finally get them. It seems, the SHR team wants to make you REALLY happy and has let you waiting for quite some time without updates to shr-unstable... ENOUGH WAITING. Christmas comes a bit early this year, and a new SHR-unstable image is out for public consumption. Keep in mind that this is the first snapshot after quite many major transitions, so don't complain if things are a bit ..well... unstable in the beginning. We are working hard to stabilize things. If you depend on your phone, you will probably not yet want to use this, e.g. right now the ringtones aren't working (it just vibrates). We had no resources to provide a nice and working upgrade path, so an opkg upgrade is very likely to lead to a non-working system. (Really! It won't work. We know you'll try anyway :). It still won't work). So download the image (http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable), flash it and start afresh. I am writing this before the new images are out there, so be a bit patient before you can really grab them. We will take a branch off current shr-unstable in a couple of weeks (after the dust has settled a bit) and start a conservative branch that will allow for more -testing releases and -finally- a stable snapshot. If others want to volunteer to do that, I'll happy hand over that job though. So what has changed, and what to expect: * First don't expect any miracles. While stuff has changed under the hood, you are still owning a fine piece of open. but outdated hardware. But a path has been laid for future improvements (also performance wise), so this is the way to go. Also, we have tried to keep the look and feel as similar as possible in the new phone apps. You will feel very much at home there. But improvements are much easier now. * xorg server rather than glamo kdrive. We switched to using a proper xorg-server, with a graphics driver that is actively maintained. There have been some improvements, and developer Weiss thinks that there are more perf improvements to get. * eglibc rather than glibc. Just like Debian did, we switched our libc library from glibc to eglibc which (apparently) is a bit better suited to embedded devices. * While the theme contest is still ongoing, we have decided to install the gry theme by Bernd Pruenster by default, it is faster than the default theme, which is not designed for obsolete embedded hardware. The illume theme is still set to default or Illume SHR, so try stasetting it to *gry* through the top bar wrench (preference settings) * The neo theme is also nice and fast. It is not installed by default, but it is in the feeds. You can easily install in with opkg install shr-theme-neo. Another theme to try out is the niebiee theme which has been designed with speed in mind (opkg install shr-theme-niebiee). * the python-based frameworkd is being replaced bit by bit with components written in Vala. The first components that we use are fsousaged (which replaces ousaged), fsodeviced, and fsonetworkd. Mickey posted a status update (http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2009/11/10/towards-the-end- of-2009/) on the new fso stuff. * phonefsod replaces the ophonekitd phone daemon and and phoneuid/libphoneui are now responsible for all things GUI with the phone apps. * opimd is included and we have the possibility to save incoming and outgoing SMS as well as contacts on the SIM card or on the SD card (using the sqlite backend). New SMS/contacts are now by default saved in a database on the FreeRunner (SD card or NAND), so be careful before reflashing! (Someone should probabably give instructions somewhere on how to change the configuration to use the SIM card as default and how to transfer data from one backend to another.) * We have proceeded with the integration work with openembedded.org and we are very close to
Re: Fwd: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present....
And now the bugs: 1) contrary to reported, not even vibration... it's as if it was in silent mode 2) I hear no sound on calls, the other side doesn't hear as well If I could live with 1), I surely can't live with 2) :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present....
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:23:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: And now the bugs: 1) contrary to reported, not even vibration... it's as if it was in silent mode 2) I hear no sound on calls, the other side doesn't hear as well If I could live with 1), I surely can't live with 2) :) It seems this is mostly fixed, I'll let you know... Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present....
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:09:16AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:23:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: And now the bugs: 1) contrary to reported, not even vibration... it's as if it was in silent mode 2) I hear no sound on calls, the other side doesn't hear as well If I could live with 1), I surely can't live with 2) :) It seems this is mostly fixed, I'll let you know... Spoke too soon. Now there is 2) again. Reverting to mrmoku's friday 13th again. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: [Shr-User] SHR-unstable got a facelift. And you a christmas present....
Do you have audio *after* a few suspend/resumes/calls ? I got audio on the first couple of calls, then nothing more. Rui On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:33:31AM -0500, Warren Baird wrote: I installed the new image yesterday afternoon, so far the non-phone functionality is working relatively well. Only 1 red-flag for me on the non-phone stuff: redraws seem noticably slower than my shr-u-sept - with omnewrotate installed and using epdfview to view a document it sometimes took as long as 10 seconds for the view to completely refresh after rotating my FR. I didn't time it on my shr-u-sept install yet, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that slow... However, the phone functionality seems pretty broken. I do get audio, so it's a little better than Rui is seing, but I get feedback squeeling as soon as I try an outgoing call, and have to drop the microphone gain - and then the person I called said they had trouble hearing me. I'm trying an update/update now - it seems like things are evolving quickly, but so far I'm strongly considering going back to the sept build so I can make phone calls.. Warren On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.orgwrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:09:16AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:23:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: And now the bugs: 1) contrary to reported, not even vibration... it's as if it was in silent mode 2) I hear no sound on calls, the other side doesn't hear as well If I could live with 1), I surely can't live with 2) :) It seems this is mostly fixed, I'll let you know... Spoke too soon. Now there is 2) again. Reverting to mrmoku's friday 13th again. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Making Geek's phone not so offtopic on this list ;)
If it's better hardware than the Freerunner and with free software drivers, then I'm surely interested :) Best, Rui On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:06:59AM +0100, David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: Dear list, I was talking with the Geek's phone CEO we agreed a couple of intersting things , In a couple of days we will receive some final prototypes of the final version of ONE We will work together to open as far the hardware of the phone, first step is obtaining the BOM list of the chipsets included on the ONE, to evaluate how difficult will be to port the actual kernel used to run Android to one to use for example SHR,QtMoko, or any other :) Until the prototypes arrives and/or the we obtain the BOM I would like hear from you any question you believe is useful to be answered, other requeriments to achieve make run a GNU/Linux distribution on this hardware. Also if someone is already interested to do serious hacking on the device please contact me personally or through this list and I will try to make you arrive one of this unit, as you can understand if we receive more colaboration proprosal than devices available we must do a selection, so please don't blame us to much if you can't recieve a unit at first attempt :P Regards ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:00:31AM +, Dave Ball wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: wm needs to track both and determine which one takes precedence based on policy and th en implement that rotation, if needed. policy is what a wm implements - that's the nature of the beast. that policy may be hard-coded in the wm or configuration for it. I've been looking at existing window properties [1] to try and understand the best way to do this. option1: New atoms in the _NET_WM_STATE property. - _NET_WM_STATE_LANDSCAPE - _NET_WM_STATE_PORTRAIT If neither is present for a given window, WM can choose (based on the accelerometers). Both present is an error - or could be defined as leave the window in it's current orientation. option2: New property. _NET_WM_ORIENTATION 0 = Either / WM decides 1 = Landscape 2 = Portrait There are two landscape positions and 2 portrait positions :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:08:06PM +, Dave Ball wrote: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:00:31AM +, Dave Ball wrote: option1: New atoms in the _NET_WM_STATE property. - _NET_WM_STATE_LANDSCAPE - _NET_WM_STATE_PORTRAIT If neither is present for a given window, WM can choose (based on the accelerometers). Both present is an error - or could be defined as leave the window in it's current orientation. option2: New property. _NET_WM_ORIENTATION 0 = Either / WM decides 1 = Landscape 2 = Portrait There are two landscape positions and 2 portrait positions :) Doh - of course! Which would lead to: _NET_WM_STATE_ORIENTATION_LANDSCAPE _NET_WM_STATE_ORIENTATION_PORTRAIT _NET_WM_STATE_ORIENTATION_INVERTED or _NET_WM_ORIENTATION 0 = Either / WM decides 1 = Landscape 2 = Portrait 3 = Landscape inverted 4 = Portrait inverted However, what's the use-case for an application requesting either of the inverted states? I can't see when those would be useful - in terms of hints the app would supply. Obviously, if the WM was deciding orientation based on the device position, you would correctly rotate to the inverted states, but if an application is built for portrait or landscape is there any reason a developer would not want the normal portrait/landscape orientation for the device? Yes, certain devices may be better prepared (in terms of connectivity for power, usb, etc...) for one kind of landscape rather than the other. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 05:15:54PM +, Dave Ball wrote: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:08:06PM +, Dave Ball wrote: However, what's the use-case for an application requesting either of the inverted states? I can't see when those would be useful - in terms of hints the app would supply. Obviously, if the WM was deciding orientation based on the device position, you would correctly rotate to the inverted states, but if an application is built for portrait or landscape is there any reason a developer would not want the normal portrait/landscape orientation for the device? Yes, certain devices may be better prepared (in terms of connectivity for power, usb, etc...) for one kind of landscape rather than the other. Yup - although that would be at the device level rather than the application level. If the WM knows what the device's policy is, I can't see a situation where one app wants to be in landscape, and a different app wants to be in landscape inverted on the same device? If you want to standardize something, better be prepared for uses such as a device. For some reason xrandr allows different options rathen than just 3. 0 == normal 1 == turned left 2 == normal inverted 3 == turned right Now... on my laptop, landscape == 0 or 2, but on the Free Runner landscape = 1 or 3 Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some questions about android on Freerunner
I would like some suggestions on where to go, and wether I can export my google code svn history. Please let us know your conclusions :) Thanks, Rui On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 01:00:34PM -0500, Jim Ancona wrote: It appears that Google is actively blocking access to Google Code from Iran and several other countries. See their TOS: http://code.google.com/tos.html and these threads on their groups list: http://groups.google.com/group/google-code-hosting/search?group=google-code-hostingq=iran I'm the owner of the android-on-freerunner Google Code project. I will initiate a discussion about moving the project to another site on the a-o-f mailing list, http://groups.google.com/group/android-on-freerunner, which doesn't appear to be blocked. Jim On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Levy levy.santa...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 14:12, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra If you prove me it's Google who's actively blocking Iran, then I will remove both omnewrotate and elmdentica from Google Code in protest. Nice, I would like to suggest the same for other Free projects! Best regards from a portuguese, Rui Best regards from a brazillian, Levy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 01:28:48PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: But there is a problem. The user may switch between several apps with different rotation needs. (xmahjongg needs landscape, tetris needs portrait, ...) How will omnewrotate be notified about this? The proper way is to define a set of DBUS signals. Of course conflicting signals need to be ignored. What conflicting signals? A proper implementation won't have conflicts? app1 prefers landscape1 app2 prefers landscape2 app3 prefers portrait1 In such a system, while app1 will have to prevail and the others will have to wait. (...) There are no conflicts, but whatever software you have managing the display must be able to change orientation at exactly the right moment. Of course you see, then, that rotation is a job best served by the Window Manager, yes? :) Daemons that rotate the screen (like my omnewrotate) are simpler hacks... Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 11:49:18AM +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 20:24:13 + Neil Jerram neiljer...@googlemail.com said: 2009/11/6 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 04:40:04PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: Well, you cannot expect every app to have such preferences, this device runs generic linux apps that aren't made specially for the freerunner. Now, of course the app loader can do this, similiar to how we already request the cpu/backlight when launching some apps. But there is a problem. The user may switch between several apps with different rotation needs. (xmahjongg needs landscape, tetris needs portrait, ...) How will omnewrotate be notified about this? The proper way is to define a set of DBUS signals. Thanks to everyone for your replies on this topic. I agree with Helge, in that I don't think DBUS is a good solution, because I really want a solution that works for existing apps. I suppose for existing apps there could be a DBUS proxy that somehow works out the best orientation and then sends a DBUS signal on the app's behalf. But that seems complicated. Also I'm not sure why DBUS helps at all. Once a program somewhere has worked out the best orientation, why not just call xrandr directly? Another thought that occurred to me is that if this was a window manager responsibility, perhaps the window manager could infer preferred orientation simply from the requested window size? (i.e. requesting width height implies a preference for landscape). That should often work for apps that were designed for the desktop. I would guess that apps written for the FR might not request specific sizes, because they'd know that they will always be fullscreen anyway - so for those apps some explicit configuration would be needed somewhere (prefer-portrait, prefer-landscape, or auto-rotate). repeating... property on window. the rotation preferences are a property of a window - like min and max size are, its title, etc. etc. - stick it on the window. ignore dbus. this is not something you do by dbus. if something is related to the display - especially something is related to your window, your domain for advertising state, information, making requests and getting replies is the x11 domain as long as you are using x11. :) I'm definitely not following you... I envision the following scenario according to what you say, could you please elaborate on why it wouldn't happen this way? 1. App wants to be landscape, sets property on window 2. rotator determines the phone is in portrait, rotates. Now what happens? 3. App is landscape, but screen is portrait: fail or 3. Window manager overrides rotation 3.1 but rotator determines portrait, rotates again 3.2 go to 3: fail Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 08:24:13PM +, Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/11/6 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 04:40:04PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: Well, you cannot expect every app to have such preferences, this device runs generic linux apps that aren't made specially for the freerunner. Now, of course the app loader can do this, similiar to how we already request the cpu/backlight when launching some apps. But there is a problem. The user may switch between several apps with different rotation needs. (xmahjongg needs landscape, tetris needs portrait, ...) How will omnewrotate be notified about this? The proper way is to define a set of DBUS signals. Thanks to everyone for your replies on this topic. I agree with Helge, in that I don't think DBUS is a good solution, because I really want a solution that works for existing apps. You have no solution for existing apps other than causing a full stop on rotation once you get the desired rotation (which is what I do for apps that work better on landscape). I suppose for existing apps there could be a DBUS proxy that somehow works out the best orientation and then sends a DBUS signal on the app's behalf. But that seems complicated. Not smart either, because you'd have a buttload of work for little gain, and there will always be one more app which isn't supported yet, etc... Also I'm not sure why DBUS helps at all. Once a program somewhere has worked out the best orientation, why not just call xrandr directly? DBUS helps a lot because you can define a standard set of signals: 1. screen rotation apps could listen for specific screen rotation signals 2. apps which have specific needs can broadcast said needs to DBUS This means minimal aditional work for everyone. Another thought that occurred to me is that if this was a window manager responsibility, perhaps the window manager could infer preferred orientation simply from the requested window size? (i.e. requesting width height implies a preference for landscape). The only way this could be the window manager's job, was if the window manager had auto-rotation routings. AFAICT, E doesn't yet. Of course rotator apps only come up because people feel the need and writing a simple daemon is simpler than patching a quite evolved window manager. That should often work for apps that were designed for the desktop. I would guess that apps written for the FR might not request specific sizes, because they'd know that they will always be fullscreen anyway - so for those apps some explicit configuration would be needed somewhere (prefer-portrait, prefer-landscape, or auto-rotate). So rotators would need to parse all the configurations? I still think DBUS is the way to do it well, but I'm open for proof otherwise. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 11:46:28PM +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote: if something is related to the display - especially something is related to your window, your domain for advertising state, information, making requests and getting replies is the x11 domain as long as you are using x11. :) I'm definitely not following you... I envision the following scenario according to what you say, could you please elaborate on why it wouldn't happen this way? 1. App wants to be landscape, sets property on window 2. rotator determines the phone is in portrait, rotates. Now what happens? 3. App is landscape, but screen is portrait: fail or 3. Window manager overrides rotation 3.1 but rotator determines portrait, rotates again 3.2 go to 3: fail rotate and wm should work closely together or be the same. the wm reads ande knows all the properties of all windows. the rotator can do this independantly - but its a fair bit of work. the wm makes decisions which rotation to use based on app properties and rotation preference (preference maybe being set by the user explicitly or automatically by accelerometers - how, doesn't much matter). It can do *your*way* with more work than the WM, but then, if the WM *doesn't* do rotation according to accelerometers, this is a moot point :) rotator doesnt go off and do whatever it likes irrespective of app hints. it needs to take them into account - put hints on window as properties. Of course, but there has to be a standard way to take their needs in account :) Being X properties or DBUS, it's the same for me. DBUS seems more natural as there's probably less pooling, but then I know only a bit more of DBUS than of X11 (which AFAIR was a bunch of huge books) :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:23:01PM +, Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/11/7 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I'm definitely not following you... I envision the following scenario according to what you say, could you please elaborate on why it wouldn't happen this way? My thinking is evolving with this discussion, but my current idea of the solution is that the WM controls whether omnewrotate is running (or equivalent, but for simplicity let's just say omnewrotate). Actually, screen rotation *should* be the job of the WM. For me, as a relative begginer, it was easier to startup with the first rotate.c written by Chris Ball and step by step improving (for instance, drop fork and link to libxrandr for better performance, control speed of reading from device, give tolerance, etc. But if it was the WM, the WM could even do nifty special effects (in graphics card that would allow it), etc... OMNewRotate is a hack satisfying one need. To keep it going it needs a smart way to do it (like DBUS). X properties is probably not so good for this kind of programs. (...) As above, omnewrotate wouldn't actually be running, so wouldn't do this. If you have two applications handling screen rotation at the same time, then you're just bound to a disaster fuse. Either the WM does it (hint for more experienced E developers), or it should keep it's hands off of it :) I hope that helps to clarify what I have in mind! Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideal screen rotation
On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:53:18PM +, Neil Jerram wrote: But I think I might have a go anyway at patching the e17 WM. With Debian, and 'apt-get source', and gcc on the phone, it shouldn't be as hard as it might sound. Please do, and hopefully make it so much better and niftier than omnewrotate :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community