Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing

[steve]

Le 13-08-2010, à 19:45:51 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller (h...@computer.org) a 
écrit :

> such a thing is quite unlikely to expect from any large phone manufacturer. 
> Even if they open up an existing design. They ususally squeeze every bit out 
> of the design to reduce manufacturing cost and may have very special test 
> procedures. And they may change internals every now and then to improve their 
> production process. I.e. you may get version B4 this week and someone else 
> version C7 in two weeks with differences in the not-documented area.

Nikolaus, couldn't you wrap your lines to something more standard (72 or
so ?) Thanks, I like reading your prose, but those long lines are really
irritating.

Kind regards,
steve 

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Re: Mail Wrapping

[steve]

Le 14-08-2010, à 08:34:51 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller (h...@computer.org) a 
écrit :

> 
> Am 13.08.2010 um 22:35 schrieb steve:
> 
> > Le 13-08-2010, à 19:45:51 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
> > (h...@computer.org) a écrit :
> > 
> >> such a thing is quite unlikely to expect from any large phone
> >> manufacturer. Even if they open up an existing design. They
> >> ususally squeeze every bit out of the design to reduce
> >> manufacturing cost and may have very special test procedures. And
> >> they may change internals every now and then to improve their
> >> production process. I.e. you may get version B4 this week and
> >> someone else version C7 in two weeks with differences in the
> >> not-documented area.
> > 
> > Nikolaus, couldn't you wrap your lines to something more standard
> > (72 or so ?) Thanks, I like reading your prose, but those long lines
> > are really irritating.
> 
> Hi Steve,

Hi Niklaus (not in Zürich toniht?)
 
> there are different opinions if the 80 char line wrapping of mail is standard 
> or some
> old-fashioned relict from the 80ies. I have tried to find out what it is but 
> it appears
> to be a problem with some MUAs not correctly handling RFC 2646.

I just read (in diagonal) through rfc 2646. It seems that it clearly
says to stick to lines not longer that 80 caracters.

Anyway, may studies have shown that the reader begins to be less
concentrated when lines exceed 80 caracters, that's *my* main point.

> Here is also some discussion about mailman being responsible or not:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-us...@python.org/msg49755.html
> which says:
> 
> The problem is that prior to Mailman 2.1.10, the format=flowed and
> delsp=yes parameters were not preserved in the outgoing message.
> 
> I think the OM list uses version 2.1.9  so it could be a bug.

Maybe, but a lot of posters here don't have any problems with 72-80
caracters. I don't see where mailman comes in the game.

> I don't know if my mail client uses these paramters - but it does not have
> an option to do line wrapping when sending.

Bad MUA, change MUA (mutt maybe?) 

> So, wouldn't it be simpler if you reduce the width of your display window?
> Your client should then wrap long lines.

No it's not simpler, imagine that many people wrap at diffenrent
numbers, what should I do? Reduce *my* display every time a mail is
excedding 72-80 caracters? I'd become crazy.

> BR,
> Nikolaus
> 
> PS: I have tried to format this mail manually, but it is quite a pain...

I understand that. But bottom line, you're using a mua that sucks, if it
doesn't give you the possibility to wrap lines at the lenght *you*
choose. Have a try at mutt [1], you'll be happy.

Personaly, I use mutt with vim as a text editor, and a simple {gq},
wraps the whole paragraph as I want, awsome :-)

[1] http://www.mutt.org/


Best regards,

--
steve

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Re: Mail Wrapping

[steve]

Le 14-08-2010, à 11:09:58 +0400, Paul Fertser (fercer...@gmail.com) a écrit :

> "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:
> > Am 13.08.2010 um 22:35 schrieb steve:
> >> Nikolaus, couldn't you wrap your lines to something more standard (72 or
> >> so ?) Thanks, I like reading your prose, but those long lines are really
> >> irritating.
> >
> > there are different opinions if the 80 char line wrapping of mail is 
> > standard or some
> > old-fashioned relict from the 80ies. I have tried to find out what it is 
> > but it appears
> > to be a problem with some MUAs not correctly handling RFC 2646.
> 
> Well, i can't really see how format=flowed can make any sense, even
> nowadays. I think all sane MUAs go without it by default, and for a
> reason: it messes with formatting which is important when you're
> sending snippets of code, patches, logs etc.
> 
> Probably it's the right time for you to stop following the rules set
> by Apple and to start using a better MUA? ;)

Absolutely! Mutt maybe?
 

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Re: Mail Wrapping

[steve]

Le 14-08-2010, à 09:28:43 +0200, Matthias Apitz (g...@unixarea.de) a écrit :

> It is the responsibility of your MailUserAgent to wrap lines correctly
> around column 72. You are using Apple Mail (2.1081). If this can not do
> this, just use another MUA or another system providing correct software.

+1
 
> I'm using Mutt as MUA which in turn can use any editor when writing the
> body of the mail. I've set the editor to vim with some magic flags:
> 
> set editor="vim \'+set textwidth=72\' \'+syntax match WarningMsg 
> /\\%>70v.*/\' -i NONE"

My setting too.

> this puts any char from position 70 in red color and wraps the line if
> my typing hits positin 72, but breaks it at the last blank before, i.e.
> does not break a word into two pieces.
> 
> Just as a hint

A good one!


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Re: Mail Wrapping

[steve]

Le 14-08-2010, à 15:41:06 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller (h...@goldelico.com) 
a écrit :

> > Please people stop spamming about line length.
> > If you MUA is so good then ask it to automatically split long lines :-p
> 
> I agree that we should not spam - but IMHO this was raised as a serious
> problem.

Serious no, just courtesy.
 
> I could live with the idea that everyone uses a MUA that can
> wrap lines when reading and displaying long lines. But it appears there
> are systems out there that can't (which I did not yet know). 

How does *your* mua display your own long lines? Does it wrap the lines
to a predefined length? Or do you see them as you type them?

> And I am asked to solve their display problem on the senders side

I'm not obliging you at all, it was just a nice remark and I felt I
could share it with you because through your prose I felt someone open
to remarks. That's all.

> (although I have much better things to do)...

I'm sure of that! (I don't write a lot here, but I read nearly
everything).

> Am 14.08.2010 um 09:28 schrieb Matthias Apitz:
> 
> > El día Saturday, August 14, 2010 a las 08:34:51AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus 
> > Schaller escribió:
> > 
> >>> Nikolaus, couldn't you wrap your lines to something more standard (72 or
> >>> so ?) Thanks, I like reading your prose, but those long lines are really
> >>> irritating.
> >> 
> >> Hi Steve,
> >> 
> >> there are different opinions if the 80 char line wrapping of mail is 
> >> standard or some
> >> old-fashioned relict from the 80ies. I have tried to find out what it is 
> >> but it appears
> >> to be a problem with some MUAs not correctly handling RFC 2646.
> >> 
> >> Here is also some discussion about mailman being responsible or not:
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Nikolaus,
> > 
> > It is the responsibility of your MailUserAgent to wrap lines correctly
> > around column 72. You are using Apple Mail (2.1081). If this can not do
> > this, just use another MUA or another system providing correct software.

He said it (also) :-)

> Before we start fingerpointing on any client we are using, let's do a little 
> more research.
> 
> http://mailformat.dan.info/body/linelength.html
> 
> quotes RFC 2822 (the successor to RFC 822):
> 
>   "There are two limits that this standard places on the number of characters 
> in a line. Each line of characters MUST be no more than 998 characters, and 
> SHOULD be no more than 78 characters, excluding the CRLF."
> 
> I.e. lines more than 78 characters are *not* forbidden. From this I conclude
> that a mail recipient must cope with that. If not, the client is broken.

No. Mutt displays long line but that's not a reason for it to be broken. 

I repeat, it is easier for humains to read lines not excedding 80
caracters, after you get tired and your concentration decreases. So as
the writer, your goal is to catch your readers attention and one way to
do it, is to wrap lines to a descent lenght (between 72 and 80
caracters). 

> And, I conclude that it is not a rule for writing or displaying mails - just
> for transferring them over SMTP without making buffer overflows.

I don't care what the MTA does (at this point).

> Now let's look into the plain code my MUA is sending. Here is an example:
> 
> > Hi Steve,
> > 
> > there are different opinions if the 80 char line wrapping of mail is standa=
> > rd or some
> > old-fashioned relict from the 80ies. I have tried to find out what it is bu=
> > t it appears
> > to be a problem with some MUAs not correctly handling RFC 2646.
> > 
> > Here is also some discussion about mailman being responsible or not:
> > 
> 
> So Apple Mail *is* correclty sending wrapped lines according to RFC.

You're kidding I hope? Second line, there is only three words, same on
fourth line. The text presented like that just sucks.

> I do not excactly know what the rules are to interpret the = signs at the
> end of the line. I guess it has to do with 
> 
> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> A little more search shows this comes from RFC 2045 (MIME) on page 19 (Soft 
> Line Breaks).
> 
> From this I conclude that the mails my client sends are correct (according
> to the standard).

I think your conclusion is wrong.

[...] 

Kind regards

--
steve 

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Re: Mail Wrapping

[steve]

Le 14-08-2010, à 17:05:55 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller (h...@goldelico.com) 
a écrit :

 
> The only solution is, that I promise to try to press the return key every now 
> and then (unless I forget)...

IMHO, it is not a good solution. Otherwise, why use machines?
 

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RE: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

[steve]

I'm sure most developers appreciate the trust involved in being this open.
I'm committed to the open philosophy. So thanks for thanking me.

If the community wants to ask me questions about anything,
I'll give them straight answers.

The community will know what I KNOW. My job is to market and sell this
revolutionary device. The community's job is to turn it into something
others could never imagine. My job is easy: I'm selling the community's
creativity.

  

 



-Original Message-
From: Daniel Spies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:45 AM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Cc: steve
Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

Thank you very much for these good news! Really appreciate your update! :)

Daniel

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:55:29 -0700, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just received a status report from our VP of Marketing, Steve Mosher:
> 
> 
> The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production
> Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. We
> are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields.
> 
> The purpose of PVT is to make sure the yield is high enough, and to make
> sure the manufacturing and testing process is smooth and efficient.
> 
> Steve also welcomes direct contact from you. He can be reached at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
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RE: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

[steve]

Some points.

nearly everyone misses the difference between internal schedules and
external schedules.

In closed companies you never publish the Internal schedule. Announcing the
future product kills the present product.
You wait until the cake is fully baked, then you deliver it. Nobody sees
your internal slips. Nobody sees the nasty bug it took forever to find.
nobody sees the struggle and the hard work. They see the final product.
and it is always "on time."  

At Openmoko we choose to do things differently. Everyone on the outside sees
the sausage being made. heck they help make the sausage!. Hard core
engineers get this. It's very intimidating to have people watch your day to
day struggling. It would be easy to be closed and announce new products only
when they are finished. 

We choose a different path. 

specific questions about PVT.

First DVT parts must complete testing. DVT testing is comprehensive. the
device is expected to pass.

question about A5 and A6.  The difference between a5 and A6 is yield
related. I don't have the specifics of the change order. An A5 will function
exactly like an A6 does. It is Yeild only. 
sample A6 PCBs are coming into the factory end of march.

How long will PVT take? On paper, if everything works according to NOMINAL
schedules, then we would schedule 2-3 PVT runs ( run, test, tweak,
run,test,tweak, run,test,tweak) If my product were the only product we built
and if all tests were nominal, that would take a couple weeks. 

Then comes production. This too needs to be scheduled. 

If I guess at this stage I put huge pressure on engineering when they are
trying to perfect this device. what is the point in that? 

The next significant Milestone will be the first PVT run.  

I'll update folks when that happens





-Original Message-
From: Michael Shiloh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:25 AM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Cc: steve
Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

Hi Ian,

Since I'm in California and the factory is in China, it's a little 
difficult for me to know exactly what the plan is and where there are 
concerns and weaknesses.

As far as I can tell there is some concern that the yield initially may 
not be as high as we would like, and that some tweaking will be 
necessary. Until we manufacture a trial run, we won't know whether 
tweaking will be necessary or how extensive this tweaking needs to be.

So, sadly, I don't know how long PVT will take and have no timeline.

Perhaps those of you with more mass-production manufacturing experience 
can speak from your experiences.

Michael

ian douglas wrote:
> Hi Michael (and Steve),
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has asked yet:
> 
> I know Michael himself has admitted that Openmoko has been historically 
> bad at estimating delivery dates, but is there *any* chance on getting 
> an updated timeline now that we have this news about the A5/A6?
> 
> IE: How long can we (reasonably) expect the design update from A5 to A6 
> expect to take? Will the PVT take a week? Two weeks? How long will final 
> production take to ramp up and start seeing units make their way to 
> shipping departments?
> 
> Ian
> 
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I just received a status report from our VP of Marketing, Steve Mosher:
>>
>>
>> The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production
>> Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. 
>> We are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields.
>>
>> The purpose of PVT is to make sure the yield is high enough, and to 
>> make sure the manufacturing and testing process is smooth and efficient.
>>
>> Steve also welcomes direct contact from you. He can be reached at 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Price of the Freerunner published?

[steve]

Thanks Sean,

  Let me just give the community an overview of what we want to do with sales, 
distributors, and partners moving forward.

First and foremost we want to keep sales and marketing in Openmoko as LEAN as 
humanly possible so we put maximum effort into engineering. So, in the same way 
the engineering departments rely on the community of developers, sales and 
marketing will rely on a community of resellers. 

I could build a big sales and marketing organization. I refuse to do this. I 
don't think it serves Openmoko or the community. I would rather have people in 
the community support the brand, build the brand, extend the sales channel and 
make some money for their effort and risk. For me it's simple: Hire a guy or 
empower the community? I choose the latter.

So, we are working toward a system of discounts for people who buy say 10 
phones or 50 phones,  and we are trying to create an opportunity for them so 
they can make money on their belief: their belief that FreeRunner will be a 
great product. Sean and I think that this belief should be rewarded and 
encouraged. So, we will do this.

Buying 10 phones, for example, will be as easy as buying 1 phone. And there 
will be a discount. 

Steve



 

 

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:09 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published?

ramsesoriginal wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Christian Beier ha scritto:
>>
>>> Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100
>>  > schrieb "Carlo E. Prelz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >> What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here,
>>  >>
>>  > As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you
>>  > ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device.
>>  > You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and
>>  > maybe some one will risk such order.
>>  >
>>  > If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house
>>  > post it might be easier to get a good price.
>>  >
>>  > Let's hope.
>>  > Christian
>>  >
>>  This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me,
>>  take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones
>>  to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the
>>  shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to
>>  everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs.
>>
>>  Just my 0.2€cent :D
>>
>>  Pietro
>>
> 
> The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me
> if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's
> say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe
> even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much
> more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features,
> or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for
> example skiers, with custom software and theme).
> Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the
> openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c
> sender incorporated? with wooden case?).
> Just my two €-cents

There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what 
we're planning for ;-)

Details will come later from Steve or Harry.

Sean


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this.

1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts)
2. How Many do I stock?
3. How do I sell them to you?
4. What will it cost?
5. how do you get them?

I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest
thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self.
or build a business around this service.


Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like.

Steve
 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Am So  23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz:
> We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our 
> factory to that hub.

What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, 
housing?
Will there be any repair service?

cheers
jOERG

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Production status Update

[steve]

Hi,

I have some updates on production for everybody. To recap what I explained
we have two Milestones to pass before flipping the Mass production switch.
DVT and PVT.

DVT. The phones from Design Verification Test have been characterized and
have been passed back to engineering. So, we are proceeding with a series of
PVT builds to test the production worthiness of the design.

As those PVT runs get going, I'll update everyone on the results.

Steve


 


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Thomas,

 

  The logistical difficulty in stocking distributors with spare parts is a
very large uncertainity.  The fundamental problem

is having a spare parts usage model. or consumption model.  That is, a
model, an estimate, of how many parts to spare. This comes with time

and experience. In the beginning people always guess wrong. It also requires
estimates of repair costs which no one has.

If I had to guess, based on my experience with other products, I would say
that the cost of  shipping, parts,and repair would exceed the

replacement costs in a substantial number of cases. 

 

But onto your specifics:

 

1. Batteries. We will have a Battery replacement that you can purchase
without coming back to us or our disty.  The replacements

will be standard parts.  

2. Stylus. again, we are going the open route. Nothing proprietary about our
stylus. 

3. Front and back covers?  I would no clue whatsoever how many to sell to
disty. and what would he do with the unsold ones?

I suppose I could offer  bags of plastic parts for sale on the web, but
it’s a huge amount of trouble for very little benefit.

   

4. Headsets. It’s a standard part.  

5. Pouches: there are plenty of third party suppliers of these.

6. Charger. I have also pushed for a “standard” charger. basically so guys
can use stock USB chargers.

 

 

If I put Spare parts at the Hub, The cost of shipping them back and forth
and the uncertainty in demand would force me to

price a spare screen, for example, at the cost of phone.  Why, because a
spare screen in the hub does no good if it goes unsold. How long

do I keep it there? in the factory, I turn it into a phone. Sitting in the
hub, it’s a doorstop. Who pays to keep it there?

Do I spare 10%, what if only 5% get used. Who owns the leftover screens? do
I pass those costs on everyone?

 

Steve

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:17 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

 

I think spare parts are things that should be available via the
distributors.

1. What: there are some parts everybody needs to replace or restock at some
point: battery (very important), stylus (not really important),
front/back-cover (moderately important), headsets, pouches, cables/chargers
(reasonably important)
2. How many: see importance (1.) for relative numbers
3. Bigger stocks for distributors, no direct selling in small numbers
4. Make it cheap :P
5. Same as (3.)

I guess there are many people who need at least spare batteries and some
who'd like to have extra pouches (me! :), so this are things that should be
offered to the customers. The effort and prices can be reasonable by only
selling larger numbers.
Additional spare parts like displays, antennas and so on could be available
in smaller number at the local hubs, so resellers can get it for their
customers if really needed.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this.

1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts)
2. How Many do I stock?
3. How do I sell them to you?
4. What will it cost?
5. how do you get them?

I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest
thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self.
or build a business around this service.


Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like.

Steve





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Am So  23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz:
> We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our
> factory to that hub.

What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery,
housing?
Will there be any repair service?

cheers
jOERG

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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

On Batteries.

 The battery should be a commodity. as easy to purchase as a AA at your
local shop or over the web.  So, I've asked Engineering to supply me with a
list of replacement batteries that anybody can go out and buy from their
local shop or the web. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus Bauer
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:40 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 16:00 -0700, steve wrote:
> I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this.
> 
> 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts)

batteries

> 2. How Many do I stock?

thousands ;-)

> 3. How do I sell them to you?

via the resellers

> 4. What will it cost?

free as in beer :°)

> 5. how do you get them?

by postal service :)

> 
> I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the
quickest
> thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self.
> or build a business around this service.
> 
> 
> Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like.


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Interesting,

 

 

Which country?

 

 how is the list of spare parts determined?

 

 

A simple question. If you sell a flashlight that takes standard batteries
must you hold a stock of 3 years of spare batteries for all your customers?

Or if you sell a car must hold 3 years of spare tires in stock for all the
customers? If you sell a Lamp, do you hold 3 years of light bulbs as spares?

 

basically, this goes to the definition of spare part. I’m curious how they
define it.

 

Steve

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ofek Doron [Ofek
BIZ]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:12 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

 

 

Hi Steve, 

 

There is a different between countries. 

It's a legal (rules and regulations) issue. in my county  you can not seal a
devises without the ability to seal spare parts. 

The regulator must to make sure that you have the ability to support the
costumers (include hardware maintenance and support) its mean that any
distributor / reseller need to hold a spare parts in stock (or to make sure
that he have a continuous supply of spare parts) for 3 years after the date
the costumer buy a device . 

 

 

- doron 

  

steve wrote:

I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this.
 
1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts)
2. How Many do I stock?
3. How do I sell them to you?
4. What will it cost?
5. how do you get them?
 
I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest
thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self.
or build a business around this service.
 
 
Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like.
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
 
Am So  23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz:
  

We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our 
factory to that hub.


 
What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, 
housing?
Will there be any repair service?
 
cheers
jOERG
 
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-- 



http://www.ofek.biz 

P Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail 

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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Maybe I just create a "spares" product?

with 3 batteries, and some other goodies thrown in?

What goodies would go in that bag?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:19 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
> There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and 
> can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C 
> compatible should work.

Just my $0.02 here, but:

*Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' 
battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM...

But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just 
fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, 
I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery.

I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed 
a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so 
after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod 
replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header 
needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I 
only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, 
yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents.

Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o)

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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

I don’t believe the replacements have the columb counter.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:05 PM
To: Clare Johnstone; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Am Mi  26. März 2008 schrieb clare:
> 
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
> >
> > This is pretty much finished on my end.
> > Nokia BL-6C.
> > Allen Lin did tests (we could only get BL-5C so far, also works).
> > There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and
can 
> > give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C
compatible 
> > should work.
> > Wolfgang
> >
> 
> on the GTA01v4 they work but will not charge. Is it different on 
> FReeRunner?

They *might* charge better in GTA02 (i guess not tested yet), and they won't

deliver same telemetry you get from GTA02's smart-bat coloumb-counter (see 
wiki).

jOERG

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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Hi Kevin,

Libertarian as well here. The first charger I want to test is my iGo as
well.

A while back I discussed the fast charging issue with Engineering. I'll
revisit that issue and get back to you guys. My understanding ( rememeber
I'm marketing and have been appropriately lobotomized) is that our device
checks the ID of the charger and then determines whether or not we can fast
charge. ( greater than 750ma I think... ) 

Steve




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:17 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

National warranties aside (I'm a libertarian...) I see certifying
aftermarket accessories as a crucial step for Openmoko, or at the v
ery least picking ONE that "works well" with a Neo/Freerunner device.

I recently purchased an iGo charger in the USA that "claimed "it could
charger a 100, 500 or 1000 mA device and it can't. :P I'm out $40,
which isn't "crucial" to me, but it's a sum that is large enough to
regret paying when a $10 charger would be equally effective.

I don't want to veer too far off topic but "third-party" accessories
and battery life are directly tied IMO. As long as the battery life
suck on the Neo/Freerunner people will need chargers for the device,
and as long as a working fast-charge charger doesn't exist, it will be
construed as bad planning.

-Kevin Dean

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM, ian douglas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
>  > There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and
>  > can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C
>  > compatible should work.
>
>  Just my $0.02 here, but:
>
>  *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe'
>  battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM...
>
>  But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just
>  fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay,
>  I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery.
>
>  I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed
>  a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so
>  after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod
>  replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header
>  needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I
>  only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that,
>  yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents.
>
>  Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o)
>
>
>
>  ___
>  Openmoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

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RE: headphone (was: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)

[steve]

Will,

   On the web shop and the wiki I would like to see a list of suitable
   replacements for the batteries ( nokia bl4,5,6 and clones) the charger,
   the stylus, the headsets. 

   
Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:13 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Cc: Marcus Bauer
Subject: Re: headphone (was: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)

Am Mi  26. März 2008 schrieb Marcus Bauer:
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 18:58 -0700, steve wrote:
> 
> > But onto your specifics:
> > 
> >  
> > 4. Headsets. It’s a standard part.  
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I looked on the wiki pages but can't find the specs. As nokia headsets
> with a 2.5mm plug don't work (different wiring and impedance) there are
> apparently several standards for headsets.
> 
> Can you tell us which wiring the jack uses and what impedance the
> earplugs have?

I already did this somewhere in wiki, IIRC.
Wait a moment, I'll have a look where to find it.

jOERG

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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Yes, 
 
The information about returns and defects etc needs to be shared. First,
however, it needs to be established or estimated. I haven’t seen a single
number from anybody on the demand rate for batteries or LCD or back covers.

Anyone care to guess?



 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexandre Ghisoli
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:28 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts


Le lundi 24 mars 2008 à 16:00 -0700, steve a écrit :
> I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this.
> 
> 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts)
> 2. How Many do I stock?
> 3. How do I sell them to you?
> 4. What will it cost?
> 5. how do you get them?
> 
> I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the
quickest
> thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self.
> or build a business around this service.

Hi Steve, 

As resellers of few products, we always share this information between
resellers and the global manufacturer.

This kind of risk should be shared between Openmoko and resellers, and
they need a good communication to share statistics about returns and
defect parts.

Now, about shipping, spare parts ordering and cost, you probably need to
setup a kind of extranet where the resellers will find the special
price, customer's price, qty and where to get them (from a local hub).

Best regards

-- 
Alexandre


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

ok, let me noodle on this a bit.   I have some ideas.

-Original Message-
From: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:41 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Cc: steve Mosher
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

If the goal is to have only one kind of "spares kit", I would put in:

1-2 batteries (100% original)
1 battery cover (100% original)
1 USB charger (if that is a special one)

no LCD
no other components (e.g. no USB cables, memory chips, they are  
commodity)

I think resellers can put 2 or 3 devices aside to extract other parts  
like LCDs or PCBs for repair. They are quite expensive parts anyway so  
the difference to a full Neo becomes smaller.

Am 27.03.2008 um 17:42 schrieb steve:
> Maybe I just create a "spares" product?
>
> with 3 batteries, and some other goodies thrown in?
>
> What goodies would go in that bag?

Nikolaus


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Thanks, At one point I suggested that an ingenious person might change this
particular resistor check so that other chargers would work in fast mode (
if they were capable)  I can't recall where that discussion ended up.

So for example, My moto mini usb is 850ma,  So I would just turn off the
software resistor check  plug it into my moto charger and ?? not blow it
up??

The open source aspect of this, of course creates opportunities and dangers.

lets keep the discussion going. My goal is not to turn Openmoko into a
supplier of expensive chargers. We would rather leverage what is already out
there.  my moto charger was outrageous; I got the Igo for free a long while
back when they first started, so hey cant beat that. 

your thoughts, always appreciated 

-Original Message-
From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:59 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Cc: steve
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Am Do  27. März 2008 schrieb steve:
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Libertarian as well here. The first charger I want to test is my iGo as
> well.
> 
> A while back I discussed the fast charging issue with Engineering. I'll
> revisit that issue and get back to you guys. My understanding ( rememeber
> I'm marketing and have been appropriately lobotomized) is that our device
> checks the ID of the charger and then determines whether or not we can
fast
> charge. ( greater than 750ma I think... ) 
> 
> Steve


Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then enables
1A 
instead of 100/500mA USB-standard.
You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC.

cheers
jOERG


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Thanks Kevin,

  I recall asking engineering what would happen if somebody disabled this
check ( hey its open source) and the general impression was that if the
charger was not capable of fast charging then you would not have nice
outcomes. I think the worse case might be if you tried to draw more than
500ma from a PC USB. Somebody not in marketing should answer that question.
 
Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Kevin Dean
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:22 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Cc: steve
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:58 PM, joerg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then
enables 1A
>  instead of 100/500mA USB-standard.
>  You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC.
>

This is possible via userspace with Bobby's application.
(http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script).

However, the flaw to this is that it will force fast charge even if
the charger isn't capable and hints that this could be... bad. :)

For the record, it APPEARS that with the Python application, the iGo
works just fine as a charger.

-Kevin


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RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

[steve]

Thx. 



-Original Message-
From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:19 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Cc: steve; 'Kevin Dean'
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts

Engineering says: you can't have both, 1A charging _and_ protection for
every 
case of missmanagement (DAU, stupid user).
USB is specified for 500mA MAX. Period! (and devices have even to announce 
when they want more than 100mA). Anyway a stupid charger consisting of a 
transformer, a diode bridge, and at best some 5V-regulator, usually doesn't 
know of *any* announcement via USB-protocol regarding 100->500mA (it
probably 
has only 2 of the 4 wires it needs for *real* USB). 
So the situation is (or to be clear: SHOULD BE. This has to be checked 
carefully for Freerunner, cause there are indications it's not at least like

this)

connect any charger: 
 - - NEO will take no more than 100mA (actually 200-300mA, BUG! (AFAIK))

have intelligent host (PC) OR
set charge mode to 500mA by GUI applet:
 - - NEO will take no more than 500mA (yet to be tested?)

connect original OM-charger (with 47K resistor) OR
set charge mode to 1000mA by GUI applet (not yet implemented?):
 - - NEO will take no more than 1A (PMU 50633 limit) (this seems to work,
more 
or less)


Alas there is *absolutely* *NO* way for NEO though to tell when your
braindead 
850mA charger will start to slowly melt down overnight when you set 1A
charge 
mode via applet. It's very unlikely there will ever be any trouble other
than 
very rare occasional broken chargers, but we just can't guarantee it's safe,

for nobody knows all the chargers in this world. 
However it's not our fault when sth really bad is happening, for every 
charger/host is supposed to be short-circuit safe (mustn't burn, otherwise 
probably mustn't be sold), and it's the USER who has to think *before* 
enabling 1A mode. Hey guys, when connecting your 110V device to a 230V
outlet 
in Europe, whom do you blame for the smoke?!

For the Y-cables to connect to 2 USB-hostports: these are absolute fake,
they 
don't balance the current in any manner, so if one port is blowfused (cause 
it once was strong) or it is weak, or dead, or disabled, the whole surge
goes 
to the other stronger port (Blam!). And these Y-cables not even do correct 
negotiation for at least 500mA per port!!! So with these Y-cables, all you 
can safely expect are no more 100mA! Everything beyond breaks specs again.

I (for own use) will check the writing on my charger, then guess whether
it's 
reasonably safe to enable 500mA or 1A, and maybe come back after 10 min to 
check whether it's still charging and charger does not start to smell.
For PC USB-hosts I have no problem to force 500mA (though this should be 
nonsense because will happen automatically), and i will *never* try 1A, not 
even with Y-adapter.

bottom line: USB is specified for 500mA at MAX, and even this needs 
intelligent host (alias charger). Everything beyond has to have some 
intelligence with it, either the one of the user not messing with
chargemode, 
or the one of OM-designers creating and checking for a proprietary way to 
signal >500mA charger capabilities (=48k).
(PS: For the record: If i got this right, the 48k even means "I'm a charger 
and I can do *2*(!)A", just GTA02 can't take more than 1A. This might change

for GTA0x!)

HTH
cheers
your friendly engineer jOERG




Am Do  27. März 2008 schrieb steve:
> Thanks Kevin,
> 
>   I recall asking engineering what would happen if somebody disabled this
> check ( hey its open source) and the general impression was that if the
> charger was not capable of fast charging then you would not have nice
> outcomes. I think the worse case might be if you tried to draw more than
> 500ma from a PC USB. Somebody not in marketing should answer that
question.
>  
> Steve
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Kevin Dean
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:22 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Cc: steve
> Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
> 
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:58 PM, joerg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >  Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then
> enables 1A
> >  instead of 100/500mA USB-standard.
> >  You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app
IIRC.
> >
> 
> This is possible via userspace with Bobby's application.
> (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script).
> 
> However, the flaw to this is that it will force fast charge even if
> the charger isn't capable and hints that this could be... bad. :)
> 
> For the record, it APPEARS that with the Python application,

RE: The problem with non-standard USB charging (was: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)

[steve]

Ya this nailed it for me.  thx Michael.


-Original Message-
From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:43 AM
To: Michael Shiloh
Cc: List for Openmoko community discussion; steve
Subject: Re: The problem with non-standard USB charging (was: Re: Price of
the Freerunner spare parts)

Michel,
this is a perfect description of the current situation.
You have to wear the t-shirt yourself! :-)

cherrs
jOERG


Am Fr  28. März 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the big problem is that there is no 
> standard for reporting current capacity other than the USB protocol, 
> which is not supported by dumb chargers.
> 
> What this means is that the various tricks that we and others play 
> (shorting unused data pins, adding resistors of specific values between 
> two pins, etc.) are all completely non-standard meaning there is no 
> agreement between manufacturers and most importantly NO PROM
> iSE THAT FUTURE DEVICES OF THE SAME MODEL NUMBER WILL USE THE SAME 
> TECHNIQUE!
> 
> In other words we could test a given Motorola charger today, find that 
> they have a resistor of value x between two pins, write the code to test 
> for this value and then bump up the current draw to the value that we 
> know the Motorola charger can provide.
> 
> But then next month Motorola might change the value of this resistor. 
> They might send a firmware update over the air to all their phones to 
> make existing phones compatible with the new charger.
> 
> We, of course, do not get this update, and suddenly the charger that we 
> had tested no longer works.
> 
> For a good example of this problem see Lady Ada's discussion on her 
> Minty Boost. You will see a string of reports from people saying they 
> needed to modify the resistor value and/or location in order to get 
> Minty Boost to work with different models of iPods. And any solution is 
> always temporary, until Apple changes something and then the resistor 
> must change again.
> 
> Thus the only way we can guarantee safe charging at higher than the USB 
> maximum of 500mA is with our own charger.
> 
> I would love to see a technical report, a white paper, written on this 
> issue. Would anyone like to take on the challenge? Winner gets an 
> Openmoko t-shirt (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SWAG)
> 
> Michael
> 
> Kevin Dean wrote:
> > O> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 




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RE: Accelerometer brainstorming

[steve]

Ya, I started down the API path with Michael Shiloh a while back, but we got
diverted by other things.

Hi matt, 

  Lets talk about your ideas, we need to highlight the new hardware we
added. Let me know what you are thinking  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:08 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: Accelerometer brainstorming


Yea, there would need to be a decent test and experiment app, with GUI,
record data feature, and visualization of data.  That would be needed likely
before the ideas we've mentioned could be worked out.  Need to develop a
solid API and event notification system.  That sort of thing prob exists for
GPS, but should it be new/separate or tagged onto GPS for acellerometer?

Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:40 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming


Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll 
> try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that 
> Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed.
I'd like to see an accelerometer graphing application, so you could monitor
and graph g force levels.  Maybe throw in a zeroing button to set a baseline
orientation, then show deviation from that.  Maybe not extraordinarily
useful, but it would be cool to look at.  You could also

record the data for later hacking or comparison, like what was my max
g-force last time I went skydiving compared to this time?  The graphing and
etc would be good for studying the feasability of other accelerometer uses,
ie is a tap on the case a recognizable event? 

Speaking of that, I'd like a tap on the case to be configurable as a mute
function during ringing.  So if you forgot to mute your phone at the
symphony and it starts ringing somewhere inside your backpack or jacket, a
well placed kick would (probably) mute it.  The value here is not having to
hunt for the phone and find a button on it.  I guess this falls under the
larger category of gesture recognition, but this alone would be a real win
for me. 

Another use would be as a 0-60 or quarter mile acceleration timer.  
Here's a link to a company that makes these:

http://www.gtechpro.com/?gclid=CLf7wPmpsJICFRI0awod1CWyQQ

I don't know if the accelerometer in the freerunner is accurate enough, but
this is a low priced product, I'd think their accelerometers are not

a great deal better, if any.



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RE: WAG about spares ratios

[steve]

Thanks Ron,

You numbers and mine are roughly in the same ballpark, roughly
  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron K. Jeffries
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:23 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: WAG about spares ratios

Steve wrote:
~~
From: "steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'List for Openmoko community discussion'"

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:30:33 -0700
Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Yes,

The information about returns and defects etc needs to be shared. First,
however, it needs to be established or estimated. I haven't seen a single
number from anybody on the demand rate for batteries or LCD or back covers.

Anyone care to guess?


Since you asked , here are my WAGs (with rationale)

Item: Projected spares demand (adjust after 6 months field
experience)

Battery  1 spare per 8 units sold
  rationale: desire for spare battery more likely due to
wide range of uses
  (as compared with standard phone).
If Nokia battery
  is really "as good as" then this can be
lower but not zero.

LCD1 spare per 75 units sold 9slightly more than 1 percent)
   LCD breakage is not frequent, but enough that we need
spares

Back cover 1 spare per 200 units sold
   not a high failure item, but a pain when it goes.
if this is not a sturdy part
   with perfect fit, the rate will be quite a bit higher

~~~
A lot of money can be squandered if spares kan-bans are set too high but the
flip side of that coin is that a lot of delay for customers to get spares
leads to unhappy customers, and in some cases will trigger swapping an
entire unit which is REALLY expensive.


--
Ron K. Jeffries
http://blog.eronj.com

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Steve]

On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 12:36:48AM +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
>> Hi there!
>> I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen...
>> I got the following idea:
>> If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a special 
>> keyword/passphrase to your moko.
>> It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a 
>> server. So you can see it's position.
>
> Hehe...sounds fun.

I think more along the lines of:

On startup a process runs, if it recognises the sim it shuts down, if it
doesn't recognise the sim it continues in the background until an ip
connection is established and it takes the data from current sim and
uploads it $somewhere, or if that takes too long, takes the phone number
from current sim and smses that to a nominated phone number.

Hello, Police? Yea, the person who has my stolen phone has this phone
number: xx and is located here: y could you please get it back 
for me?

Steve /..

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Product Update

[steve]

 
 As I explained a while back we had a few milestones to hit before beginning
mass production.
The First was DVT. Building phones and verifying the design. That's been
completed and so we have
Moved onto the next stage PVT. Verifying the design for Production. This
stage is always a bit annoying
Because the temptation is to throw the switch and build a billion phones.
There are three PVT builds scheduled
And the first has been completed. The completed handsets will be tested and
then we will tweak the process and build two more PVT  batches. It's the
final push people so everybody keep your good humour. 



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RE: Any updates on the PVT status?

[steve]

I thought I did an update on this, so let me repeat the update, and add some
details.

The DVT run, the design verification was completed a bit ago and the design
has been verified. For a short
Time I had some worries about landscape mode, but Engineering figured out
that the issue was driver setting.
PVT is proceeding. At least 3 PVT runs are planned and  phones from PVT are
headed back to
Tiawan. During PVT there are always minor tweaks. This PVT will be no
different than any other PVT. You build
100 phones, you find out that 85 work, you tweak the process to improve
that.  You build another batch.
Since DVT is passed all that is left is production details. Running the
lines, tuning the process.  Trust me
This is not a time to bug an engineer  and ask " is done yet?" "are we there
yet?" 

So what happens from here on out. First we have to complete PVT. That means
we have to review all the PVT builds
And then we have to decide to start Mass Production. And then we have to
schedule our start date. 
Finally, if people want an early sample and can convince me that they have a
good business idea, send me mail.

I have a very small number of samples headed my way and I want to make sure
I listen to ideas and proposals I havent heard.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Federico Lorenzi
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:00 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Any updates on the PVT status?

Hello,
Just wondering, is there any news regarding the status of the PVT runs? Will
a new design be needed / is the current one good for mass production / minor
tweaks needed / whatever?

Cheers,
Federico

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RE: Hardware update

[steve]

The FreeRunner uses a 500 Mhz CPU. The board design is rated to 400 Mhz.

So, if people check  CPU processing specs they will see 500MHz. 
Operationally, we limit it to 400 Mhz. For a varety of  reasons.
 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:43 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Hardware update

Alexander Frøyseth writes:

>Soo 400/500 MHz is no more?

I've never heard any projection that openmoko was ever going to run on 400
or 500 MHz -- in fact, I'd never heard of that GSM band, and googled to find
it!

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RE: Hardware update

[steve]

The reasons are twofold.

1. The board was designed to operate at 400MHZ. It was designed to run at
400Mhz because the CPU we chose was rated at 400MHz. So running faster than
400MHZ is NOT within the design spec.  The phone will ship with a 500MHZ
processor because that is what we can buy. Simple. we ordered 400 MHZ.
we designed to 400Mhz, and the part we can physically purchase is 500MHZ.

So, if I say its 400MHZ and somebody checks the chip, they will say " HEY
it's 500MHZ" and if I say its 500MHZ and somebody checks the speed it runs
at they will say " HEY its 400 Mhz"

2. Even if I could run it at 500Mhz the battery life would suffer.


So. We designed it to run at 400. All the cpus are rated at 500. 

Steve
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Spies
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:01 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: Hardware update

So, if it doesn't cause too much trouble, may you describe these reasons?
Or is there anything on the wiki? (Sorry I cannot check it myself right
now.)

Daniel

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:39:58 -0700, "steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The FreeRunner uses a 500 Mhz CPU. The board design is rated to 400 Mhz.
> 
> So, if people check  CPU processing specs they will see 500MHz. 
> Operationally, we limit it to 400 Mhz. For a varety of  reasons.
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:43 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Re: Hardware update
> 
> Alexander Frøyseth writes:
> 
>>Soo 400/500 MHz is no more?
> 
> I've never heard any projection that openmoko was ever going to run on
400
> or 500 MHz -- in fact, I'd never heard of that GSM band, and googled to
> find
> it!
> 
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RE: Web Browser?

[steve]

The accelerometers measure gforce. They measure this force at a certain
frequency ( the spec is out there) as with all accelerometers there is a
measurement error and a drift. the Phone has two 3 axis accelerometers, and
simple physics tells you if you have Xdotdot, Ydotdot, and Zdotdot, you
can integrate over time and get velocity in each axis and integrate again
to get position. So in theory you can compute the entire 6DOF relative
geometry of the system (x,y,z, psi, theta,phi)

However, the noise in the signal and your integration step will limit
your accuracy. So, its very application specific.

For filtering there are many choices. If you know the underlying dynamic
model then a Kalman filter might be a
good choice. If you google or wikipedia on kalman filter and accelerometer
you should find stuff. code even.

The neat trick is combining GPS data with accelerometer data.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of simarillion
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:29 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Web Browser?

Am Mittwoch 09 April 2008 10:08:10 schrieb Ricky Fitz:
> Probably use the accelerometers for this? If phone bends over a few
> degrees, scroll down or up... ?

I think this is a great and innovative idea.

Does somebody know which resolution can be achieved with those acceleration 
sensors (single degrees, 10 degrees)? And is really a 3d position detection 
possible or are there any technical constraints.

Best regards,
Michael

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RE: Who is who ?

[steve]

we actually wanted to promote local groups so we created a special product
for them

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe
Guillebert
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:11 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Who is who ?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm french too :) And I was looking for these information several month
ago.
> I wonder if we can do a group of french people, like the german group, and
> do some valuable work (i18n ?).
>   

Hello all,

Just to point out that there are also "Local groups" in the wiki to 
allow local meetings of people interested in the project.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups

Since I'm also French, maybe if some more people fill these pages we 
could meet somewhere (in Paris ?) and dream about GTA02 ;)

See you


-- 
Phyce


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FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

 I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or
production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT
run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I
will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a
couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB
chargers before I send these samples out.

Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,  

1. Products.

 Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages.
Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a
quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been
$650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided
the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and
attract more developers. 

2. Pricing
We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits.
Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of
was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating
that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). 

Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We
priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar
capability.

My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
USD.

We did that.

The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers
I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later.

The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.

Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying
more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small
business, sometimes a small group or club. 

For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will
charge 369 per phone.

 
Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how
the product will get distributed


Steve



 


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory.

The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some
other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.   

Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback


Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Manjos
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 1:43 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:50 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  2. Pricing
>  We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious
bits.
>  Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of
>  was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy.
Eliminating
>  that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).

So is there any news/update on the final inventory that will be in the
box with the Freerunner?

Also, great work on reaching this milestone and thanks for letting
everyone know!

Matt

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RE: next costumers location

[steve]

Exactly why we decided to do the 10 pack!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pietro "m0nt0"
Montorfano
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:39 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: next costumers location

What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do 
you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the 
advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was 
accorded.
Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual 
name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)...
So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the 
cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price.

This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when 
buying something from US or other countries.

If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to 
use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't 
want to do that :D)

Cya!

Pietro

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Buying the lunchbox

[steve]

Can you buy the actual lunchbox separately from us?

No. My approach is this. If Openmoko buys a lunchbox and sells it to you,
then we have to make
A profit and charge you shipping and by the end of the day, the customer is
NOT served very well.

It's better to enable the customer to get the same thing for less by buying
it direct! 

http://www.all-pelican-cases-4-less.com/detail_pelican_1120.html


In short, it's cheaper for you to buy from people direct, than it is for me
to buy from them and sell to you.

Another way to look at it. Openmoko is going to focus on the areas where we
add VALUE. Buying the lunchbox from
Company A, and reselling it to you, is of marginal value. 

Plus one lunchbox doesn't fit ALL. If you want or need a secure carrying
case, then go to the guys
Who are expert in that and you will end up with a better deal all around.
The exact case you need.
A cheaper price, and openmoko can focus on open source hardware and
software.

Steve

   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ramsesoriginal
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:13 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Thats great news!
Just a quick question: will it be possible to buy the lunchbox as an own
product?

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Steve for the update. I have my money all saved up and ready!
>
> . . .Shawn
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
> 
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:50:40 AM
> Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
>
>
>
>  I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on 
> PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from 
> the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next 
> Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key 
> partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia 
> batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples
out.
>
> Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,
>
> 1. Products.
>
>  Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two
packages.
> Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It 
> was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit 
> would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a 
> huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward 
> our early developers, and attract more developers.
>
> 2. Pricing
> We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious
bits.
> Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was 
> the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating 
> that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).
>
> Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We 
> priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar 
> capability.
>
> My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
> USD.
>
> We did that.
>
> The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early 
> customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details
later.
>
> The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.
>
> Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by 
> buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, 
> sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club.
>
> For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we 
> will charge 369 per phone.
>
>
> Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and 
> how the product will get distributed
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>



--
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Well,

   My goal is to open the accessory business. Far too often companies take a
standard accessory product
And make minor changes that require the customer  to go back to them for
replacements. So, we are pushing
EVERYTHING in the direction of being open. It's a culture change. Like
Opening the CAD files.
So, that is the direction I am working toward. Open Engineering. Open
Marketing. Open Sales.

These culture changes take time. But from Sean on down we are committed to
move forward with them.

Steve  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Renda
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:37 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Hi Steve

Thank you for the update.

I think you (you all from openmoko) worked very well, and I am happy to know
these update.

According me was a good idea to remove some accessories to cut off the
price: a lot of person, can not to have too much money to buy for something
that still they don't know, so I think it is good to interest more persons /
developer. Who need, can alway to buy the accessory he need.

I am happy to tell to you that this evening I decided to buy a Freerunner,
and I hope in a future to be able to produce something for the Openmoko
comunity.

Best regards
Michele Renda

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RE: next costumers location

[steve]

I'll get the dimensions on the 10 pack, but we have reduced the size of the 
individual  box very much.
If you want to guess at shipping, figure at 10 pack will weigh on the order of 
3 Kilo, and use the dimensions
Of the Neo 1973 to figure the total package size.

The average of shipping a single phone from US to EU was about  80USD. By 
making the package smaller,
Creating a 10 pack, I'll drop this Substantially. People can go check out the 
shipping by using
The data above. 

This plan relies on one thing. People in the community coming together and 
ordering as a group.

 
 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander 
Frøyseth
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:45 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: next costumers location

I know
I checked it out a couple of months ago, it will cost (from memory) about 500 
NOK (81,98USD or 51,32€) per phone.
But the fee is mainly going after weight.

It are not cheap to live in Norway xD, or what flexd?

Alexander Frøyseth

flexd skrev:
> If ordering from the US (or anywhere really), would it be possible to 
> have the package marked as a gift to evade taxes and such? Norwegian 
> taxes are high, so we'll probably pay like half a phone extra >_<
>
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano skrev:
>> Erland Lewin ha scritto:
>>> 2008/4/13, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>  
  Well, if you consider that you've to pay the shipping costs from 
 Usa or Asia in 10 or more people, instead that as an alone buyer I 
 think that you gain really more than 30$-8€ ;)
 
>>>
>>> Well, that is the key question now for us in the EU - I believe that 
>>> FIC has said that they will have a distribution center in the EU, 
>>> which should make the shipping much less expensive. The very high 
>>> shipping cost in relation to the price of the phone I think was a 
>>> problem with the GTA01...
>>>
>>> I'm very much looking forward to hearing about how FIC will solve 
>>> the EU distribution, and how much the shipping will be in Europe on 
>>> top of the $399 + VAT price, which I think is a very good price. I 
>>> think that info would be in the next update from FIC.
>>>
>>> /Erland in Stockholm, Sweden
>> Yes, you are right, i was thinking that buying a 10pack phone is 
>> always cheaper than buying a single phone due to the shipping costs.
>> I'd like to know the eu price and if it's convenient to buy the phone 
>> in eu, else there are some services that you can subscribe for 10$ 
>> which give you an us address so you buy the phone and send them 
>> there, after that you pay the shiping cost from there to your nation, 
>> this can let you to not pay VAT, don't know how much it's legal but 
>> i'd like to get more info on this services because they can be very 
>> useful.
>> Everything obviously is to see how much the eu phone costs due to the 
>> VAT and other taxes.
>> So i have to get more info about this service but they exist so i 
>> think it should be a good deal to use them if in eu the phone will 
>> cost too much.
>>
>> Cya!
>>
>> Pietro
>>
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>>
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

There will be two  products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of
course)

So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1.  and yes, this is a always an
issue in volume sales.


I suspect when people get 10 committed community members to agree, they will
place the order.
Move fast. Get organized, get ready. 






 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:03 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Great news that things are getting so finalized. 

I have a question about the '10-pack'.  I'm thinking about getting together
a group order for my local LUG.  Suppose we have 11 people interested?  Is
it more a 10-plus pack, or would that extra 1 phone have to be ordered at
full 399 price? 


steve wrote:
>  I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on 
> PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from 
> the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next 
> Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key 
> partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia 
> batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples
out.
>
> Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,
>
> 1. Products.
>
>  Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two
packages.
> Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It 
> was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit 
> would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a 
> huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward 
> our early developers, and attract more developers.
>
> 2. Pricing
> We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious
bits.
> Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was 
> the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating 
> that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).
>
> Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We 
> priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar 
> capability.
>
> My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
> USD.
>
> We did that.
>
> The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early 
> customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details
later.
>
> The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.
>
> Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by 
> buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, 
> sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club.
>
> For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we 
> will charge 369 per phone.
>
>  
> Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and 
> how the product will get distributed
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>   


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Charger is on the list of goodies. So, yes there will be a charger in the
box.

Going forward, I think we as a community need to discuss these issues.

1. Do I supply a standard charger that follows the USB Spec. for example, A
charger that you could buy anywhere.

2. Do I Supply a CLOSED charger that only my phone can recognize? 

For me. custom is closed. Our high current charger is custom.its closed.  

This decision is mirrored in the battery decision.

So, I have one group of people asking be to supply them with expensive
custom parts
And another group of people asking for accessories they can buy from
anybody.

let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories. 

 


 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:23 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008/4/13, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to 
> add some  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a
custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current?

/Erland

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Shawn

  This is a very difficult issue. . Let me Nutshell it.

  1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

Some people want the custom charger and they want access to custom
replacements
Some people want the custom charger and they will live with a standard
replacement 
Some people philosophically believe we shouldn't do custom chargers.

So, I get to sort through this. But to begin with the early adopters, the
developers,
Who buy the phone first, will get a fast charger.




 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Rutledge
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:11 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 9:44 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to 
> add some  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

If the phone can be charged with a Motorola charger, I'm personally fine
with saving some money and you leaving it out of the box.  (And the chargers
can be had cheaply on ebay etc.)  But if it requires a special one then I
would want to see the charger included.  And a car charger must be made
available, too.  A desktop charger would be nice to have but I guess the
Nokia one will work, right?  Requiring the phone to be charged only from a
PC is not practical when you expect this phone to be for (advanced) users
too, not just developers, right?

Likewise if the connector is to be something other than mini-usb, including
a USB cable might be a good idea.

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first
few thousand buyers. 
 
If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great
because at every trade show
when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! 
 
  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


and no more stylus ?


On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


2008/4/13, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>  The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add
some
>  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.


There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was
a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current?

/Erland


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RE: next costumers location

[steve]

 That will be the subject of my next post. It's somewhat complicated
With a host of side issues. I look at it like debugging code. I try to fix
One issue at a time. Then test my fix. Then move onto the next problem and fix 
that.
So, We had to prioritize issues.

First: get a good product line up, simplify the product line, address the key 
concerns
DRIVE THE PRICE DOWN, and involve more developers.

   A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace.  
   B. We got rid of the base versus advanced. We have One Product. With 
developers goodies offered on the side.
   C. We are in the process ( working hard) to take excessive stuff out of the 
box. 
   D. We are working to make all accessories "non custom" products. 

Second: Work the logistics of getting products to people. This process is as 
hard as building phones.
Trust me. For Neo 1973 we utilized one distributon center. FICA in the USA. Our 
goal is to add  A HUB
In Europe.  The thought was this. Shipping to a HUB in Europe and then having 
that HUB service Europe
Would be CHEAPER than shipping to the US and having the US serve Europe. Seemed 
logical. That was wrong.


So. I'm going to Finish the first goal. Get the line up solid. Start shipping 
that lineup. Then
I will go optimize the distribution question.

I'll have more to say about this, but for now, I'm just waiting to get my 
samples.

PVTs are looking good. I'll let you know what Michael and I think when we see 
them.

Then I'l have an update on Software. Many things to talk about there.





 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:59 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: next costumers location

2008/4/13, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Well, if you consider that you've to pay the shipping costs from Usa 
> or Asia in 10 or more people, instead that as an alone buyer I think 
> that you gain really more than 30$-8€ ;)

Well, that is the key question now for us in the EU - I believe that FIC has 
said that they will have a distribution center in the EU, which should make the 
shipping much less expensive. The very high shipping cost in relation to the 
price of the phone I think was a problem with the GTA01...

I'm very much looking forward to hearing about how FIC will solve the EU 
distribution, and how much the shipping will be in Europe on top of the $399 + 
VAT price, which I think is a very good price. I think that info would be in 
the next update from FIC.

/Erland in Stockholm, Sweden

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

of course it has all the goodies. 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:06 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


Thank you  Steve for precisions.

One more question about the 10 pack... As you can see, we are organizing to
get 10pack in order to drive down the shipping cost... but is this pack will
contain the same accessories than a 1 neo pack ? (charger, stylus, other
goodies...). I mean if there is only 30$ difference between both, (plus
shipping cost) but less all goodies, I am not sure it's more interesting to
get it inner 10 neo's pack...

thx


On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:13 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


There will be two  products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of
course)

So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1.  and yes, this is a always an
issue in volume sales.


I suspect when people get 10 committed community members to agree, they will
place the order.
Move fast. Get organized, get ready.









-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:03 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


Great news that things are getting so finalized.

I have a question about the '10-pack'.  I'm thinking about getting together
a group order for my local LUG.  Suppose we have 11 people interested?  Is
it more a 10-plus pack, or would that extra 1 phone have to be ordered at
full 399 price?


steve wrote:
>  I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on
> PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from
> the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next
> Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key
> partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia
> batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples
out.
>
> Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,
>
> 1. Products.
>
>  Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two
packages.
> Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It
> was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit
> would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a
> huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward
> our early developers, and attract more developers.
>
> 2. Pricing
> We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious
bits.
> Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was
> the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating
> that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).
>
> Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We
> priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar
> capability.
>
> My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
> USD.
>
> We did that.
>
> The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early
> customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details
later.
>
> The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.
>
> Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by
> buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities,
> sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club.
>
> For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we
> will charge 369 per phone.
>
>
> Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and
> how the product will get distributed
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Well the customer charger is identified by a 47 ohm resistor it has.

Go review the list for discussion about the charger issue. Michael Shiloh
has some
Good posts on it.

So, initially I'm shipping a fast charger. I leave OPEN the option to change
My mind on this AFTER the community is served. Based on feedback from the
community.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)"
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:25 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

steve ha scritto:
>   This is a very difficult issue. . Let me Nutshell it.

Imho, not so much!

>   1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
>   2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
> 
> [CUT]
> Some people philosophically believe we shouldn't do custom chargers.
> 
> So, I get to sort through this. But to begin with the early adopters, 
> the developers.

This is a too restricted view imho, but I respect it. Anyway I simply think
that the custom chargers aren't so bad if you publish their specs.
Also the freerunner itself is a custom/non-standard device but people simply
is waiting for it!

> Who buy the phone first, will get a fast charger.

Ok, I hope to be one of these so, but I really think that you shouldn't add
this limitation (especially if you hope to sell Freerunner also to people
actually addicted to this community).

--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Thanks.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)"
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:36 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

steve ha scritto:
> Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they 
> would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a
decision.
> We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based 
> on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your 
> feedback

I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
  - AC Charger (better if "custom")
  - Headset (with mic?)
  - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
  - Stylus

Optional:
  - MicroSD
  - USB Cable
  - Lanyard

--
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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PVT Update.

[steve]

 
 The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests.
Where we try to break the phone.
The Last of the PVT runs are finishing up and then we will start  MP.

The testing of PVT phones is showing good quality and the last batch passed
the threshold so we can begin
The final process of MP.

There are two big milestones ahead.

1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after
this, but the image we commit
Is one we will stick with for a while. Don't ask me what "a while" is. I'll
talk about the software release
Late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release and
what will come later. 

2. Improving Test throughput. Optimizing the output of production means that
the test time must be faster
 that the production time, grossly speaking. So, people are focused on
improving the speed of production
Test.  


So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild
results are good.

We have a couple important milestones to hit. 


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Ha,
 
Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JW
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


>But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be
>made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one.
>Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better
>then nothing.


i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small
rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works
for me... i am always losing them anyway...

JW

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Sorry,

I want to keep things as simple as possible for our shipping folks. So,
that's the current plan. I'll make rational adjustments as time goes
forward. Think about the 10 pack as a bulk product. That's what it is.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:30 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote:
> There will be two  products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of
> course)

This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store 
software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks.

The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? 


>
> So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1.  and yes, this is a always an
> issue in volume sales.


Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like

that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in

pricing terms.

-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

yes,

 I am trying to balance all of these issues and keep the ordering process
and fulfillment process simplified.
 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:33 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  > let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories.
>
>  I agree to Open accessories.
>
>  Thinks I would like to see in the box:
>  - Charger
>  - USB-Cable
>  - Headset
>
>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
>  - Stylus
>  - Pouch
>  - MicroSD

maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards
at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for
<80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have
the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may
not be a useful size for me.

there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i
want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if
possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come
back

the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really
necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at
dick smiths, or are unique to the neo

personally, i'd want:
*a modified charger (if one is made)
*a pouch
included, and that's it
anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source
myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

 Good question.

 

  I have copied Michael Shiloh on this mail. He's on travel now. If I tried
to answer your question I would just beclown myself.

 

 So, Michael, can you recap the charger technical details. perhaps an update
on the Wiki.  Charger FAQS. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

  1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.


How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal
charger?

If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that is really
borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough
to fully charge the phone.

I fully sympathise and agree with using easily accessible hardware, but if
standard chargers take this long, perhaps the next hardware generation
should use something like easily available Nokia chargers or similar.

If it were possible to inexpensively construct some adapter cable to
existing commodity chargers to charge the Freerunner at 1 amp, that would of
course be an option too. I realize this wouldn't be ready for the upcoming
developer release.

/Erland

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Ok,

  Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
innards and not the cosmetics.

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Robin Paulson wrote:
> 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
>>  - Stylus
> 
> 
> personally, i'd want:
> *a modified charger (if one is made)
> *a pouch
> included, and that's it


I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. 
Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm 
sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh 
well), but include *something*.

-id

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Thanks Erland,

 

  I'm getting more info on the audio performance. I'll have samples arrive
in a couple of days and test the audio myself.

Bass for music was reported as a potential weakspot. So, I have to listen to
it.  Then I have to make my input.

WRT the big CAP. I don't track the passive component changes on the board.
I'm marketing. I track the performance.

So, I'll have a listen and then make my input before we go ahead. 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?

I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.

I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.

By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can

we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?' discussion on kernel list again) won't make
it into the Freerunner mass production?

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RE: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

[steve]

Thanks Lowell.

 

The phone will ship with a wall charger. 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

 

I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I RARELY plug
anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture almost never.
The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is
completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer
that consumers would feel similarly.  My expectation of a cell phone (based
on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't
break this precedent with the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle
(connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.

That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a
modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on precedent, my
expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking about it now I realize
that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make.

Just my 4 1/2 cents.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
> 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
>   2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
>
> How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
> normal charger?
>
> If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
> battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that is really
> borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
> enough to fully charge the phone.

There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
to draw 500mA.

It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
around.

So I just can second Steve:
"2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine."

Marcus





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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Ok thanks dirk.

Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked.  

If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch.

My opinion: it's a phone sock. 

Ideally I would love to have the community
develop this accessory if they want it.



 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Hi,

I spoke to my wife ("typical" end user).

She expects a
- computer independent charger
- headset
- pouch

Best regards

Dirk

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy dance.

He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)"
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Ivo Anjo wrote:
> Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a 
> really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity 
> nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the 
> neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those 
> myself).

I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually 
supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like 
to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...

-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Haha.  I remember that. I use chopsticks and squizzle sticks. 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:51 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has 
one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye.

:-)

steve wrote:
> 
> Ha,
>  
> Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like.
> 
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM
> *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
> *Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> 
>  >But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be
>  >made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one.
>  >Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better
>  >then nothing.
> 
> i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy 
> small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable 
> styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway...
> 
> JW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options

[steve]

I've got the same question into the web shop team. 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:20 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options

 

Can I ask that the US product website support either PayPal or Amex in
addition to MC/Visa?  

 

Thanks, 

Matt

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:13 PM
To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first
few thousand buyers. 

 

If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great
because at every trade show

when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

and no more stylus ?

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

2008/4/13, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>  The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add
some
>  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was
a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current?

/Erland


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-- 
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: I just want a free phone

[steve]

Thank you Breakable.

 

 We struggle long and hard with this question.  

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Breakable
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:20 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: I just want a free phone

 

Hi there,
I read some discussions about the accessories to GTA02. In my humble opinion
the community should not expect the OpenMoko Inc to provide all the
accessories, as soon as the phone is released, especially for the
non-consumer version yet. For now i would be happy to get the phone itself,
and would bare with the inconvienience of searching for accessories in ebay,
or anywhere else. I hope the communyti will start building and documenting
whatever accesories are available. It might take some time, but the
FreeRunner will popup in the local phone shops after a while, and then I
would expect to have a full range of compatible accesories avalable locally.

Regards,
Breakable

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

USB cable will be in the goodies.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:24 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

> It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All
> that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the
> software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable
> or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory
> business.
>


I want this cable not for charging, but for using USB devices with  
the Freerunner / neo1973 .. so in that instance, it shouldn't be  
included?

I feel its a bit dodgy expecting customers to hack up their own cable  
to use USB devices - unless there is a cable that can be purchased  
out there already that will give us this capability?


;
--
Jay Vaughan





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RE: PVT Update.

[steve]

Ok.

 I'm talking about the software that will go on the phone when it is built,
and then the downloads that will be available.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)"
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:48 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: PVT Update.

steve wrote:
> 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after
> this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while. 
> Don't ask me what "a while" is. I'll talk about the software release
> late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release
and
> what will come later.

This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for "release of 
software"? Are you developing a new release of the software on "closed 
doors" and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about 
testing kernel and other low-level softwares?

> So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy.
Yeild
> results are good.

This is a really happy news btw...!

-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Wow,

 Kevin, that is really enlightening for me. I've never heard anyone talk
about why they like the pouch. 

I was kinda thinking about making things like the pouch a give away at trade
shows and on the community list. Not for everybody, but for folks who were
contributers.  I would rather give 5K pouches to community members who
posted great ideas, than ship 100,000 to people and have 95000 end up in the
trash bin.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Zuber
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:48 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I totally agree with you, Marco!
But I would like to add two important things:
-The Pouch is more important than "needed" for me, it's essential. It
will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
"no-name" pouch, because I like that one with the word "openmoko" on it,
because it is simply great! I also like this "neoprene"-outfit.

-The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
(depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 

Two notices for optional gadgets:
-Lanyard: I don't think one with "openmoko" on it is a standard part,
and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)

-Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin


Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)":
> steve ha scritto:
> > Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
> > like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
> > We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
> > cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your
feedback
> 
> I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
>   - AC Charger (better if "custom")
>   - Headset (with mic?)
>   - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
>   - Stylus
> 
> Optional:
>   - MicroSD
>   - USB Cable
>   - Lanyard
> 


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RE: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricingand PVT update)

[steve]

Thanks Bobby,

 

 The approach you suggest is one that we will take eventually when we have
established a predictable run rate.

 What’s that mean?  When you sell a  million Ipods per month, lets say, then
you can establish an ATTACH RATE for

accessories. for every million ipods, I sell 100,000 chargers, 5000 screen
protectors, 62567, car chargers.

Like so.  That way, you know how many to order, how many to stock, and you
design packaging ect etc.

 

Breaking out accessories into an ala carte system incurs overhead both on
production side and the shipping

side. At certain volumes these overheads are minimized.

 

If you like I can explain further. But for now I am minimizing SKU count.

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby Martin
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:33 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner
Pricingand PVT update)

 

I am one of those crazy people who use the neo 1973 as their everyday phone,
and I NEVER use the pouch.  Does any current every day user use the pouch or
lanyard?

I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or
something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)

For me, the must have list would be just the charger.

However, to me this seems like a super-simple problem to solve!  By default
(after the 'goodies' release, of course), you just get the phone.  Anything
else may be useless junk to any particular customer, destined for a
landfill.

By default, you just get the phone, but you are given a little list of all
the extras with a checkbox for each to see if you want it in your package.
They are reasonably priced, and shipped in the same packaging as the phone.
There is clear text that you will need a Neo specific charger to
automatically get fast charge, and that only a 2.5 mm headphone compatible
with X mobile phone will work.

Something like this:
Your shopping cart:
1 $399  Neo FreeRunner
Would you like any of the following add-ons?
   [ ] $9.99 Wall charger  (the Neo can only "fast charge" from a Neo
compatible charger or a computer USB cable)  (What is this?)
   [ ] $3.99 USB to mini-A cable  (What is this?)
   [ ] $9.99 powered USB host cable  (What is this?)
   [ ] $2.99 cool Neo FreeRunner lanyard (What is this?)
   ...

Of course, I'm sure other answers seem just as obviously correct to others
:-)

Bobby

Not providing SD card could take off taxes about private copy or other
bullshits like that from RIAA and friends... as I said in a previous mail. 

To me charger should be provided, with stylus, headset and pouch at least.

-- 
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Göring at the
Nuremberg trials 

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

USB cable is in.

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
Billaudelle
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:41 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

My opinion:

+ USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice with
a self-made cable...
+ pouch
+ lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...)

- no stylus
- no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive)
- no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...)

cheers
Sebastian

Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: 

 
I totally agree with you, Marco!
But I would like to add two important things:
-The Pouch is more important than "needed" for me, it's essential. It
will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
"no-name" pouch, because I like that one with the word "openmoko" on it,
because it is simply great! I also like this "neoprene"-outfit.
 
-The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
(depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 
 
Two notices for optional gadgets:
-Lanyard: I don't think one with "openmoko" on it is a standard part,
and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)
 
-Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Kevin
 
 
Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb "Marco Trevisan
(Treviño)":
> steve ha scritto:
> > Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
> > like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
> > We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
> > cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your
feedback
> 
> I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
>   - AC Charger (better if "custom")
>   - Headset (with mic?)
>   - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
>   - Stylus
> 
> Optional:
>   - MicroSD
>   - USB Cable
>   - Lanyard
> 
 
 
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Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie
1. kein ISO Standard sind,
2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und
3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind!

Benutze bitte das "Open Document Format" - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen -
auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! 

 

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RE: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update)

[steve]

Probably need to set up a wiki of stuff like this.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus Bauer
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:47 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re:
FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update)

On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:

> I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant
> or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)

They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.

For example this one here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0Q
QitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ


No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)


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RE: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update)

[steve]

Thanks Kevin for your thoughtful comments.

My Igo works as well, as does my moto charger and I'll use these two plus
some others to check the FreeRunners that I get. 

The stylus debates get very contentious. To thumb or not to thumb.
I have my preference, but I must remain open minded. 

The fancy kick ass stylus will be in the first few thousand Boxes.

Michael and I will be in contact with you about the charger and a couple
other things in a few days.


Steve

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:16 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re:
FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update)

I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as
well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the
pouch since I took them out of the box.

But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning,
because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part
of the Neo I find it a hinderance.

I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't
have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an
accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is
the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus
is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to
not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty
sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software
won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory.

I like Bobby's idea, the "click here to buy this accessory" but I
think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to
purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would
be passing unneeded expense to the customer.

What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko
branded "Approved" stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated.
I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the
Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't
recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would
allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of
options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently
high level of quality.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:
>
>  > I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant
>  > or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)
>
>  They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.
>
>  For example this one here:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0Q
QitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ
>
>
>  No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)
>
>
>
>
>  ___
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>

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RE: PVT Update.

[steve]

ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental
plane for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy.
we flew them for a little while. Then they took one.
Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off.
bastards.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: PVT Update.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Still, poor Freerunners... :'(

On 4/14/08, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product
> free of defects :)
>
> 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >
> >   The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive
> > tests.
> > Where we try to break the phone.
> >
>

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

 Sorry about the phone sock thing, I had other metaphors at my disposal.

But I restrained myself.

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
Billaudelle
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

How to develop such a "phone sock"?
OK, my mother is quite good at knitting, but... ;-)

I could post some design proposals...

cheers
Sebastian

P.S.: I asked my mother and some neighbours:
- charger
- pouch
- lanyard
nothing else...


Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 12:36 -0700 schrieb steve: 

 
Ok thanks dirk.
 
Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked.  
 
If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch.
 
My opinion: it's a phone sock. 
 
Ideally I would love to have the community
develop this accessory if they want it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
Hi,
 
I spoke to my wife ("typical" end user).
 
She expects a
- computer independent charger
- headset
- pouch
 
Best regards
 
Dirk
 
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Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie
1. kein ISO Standard sind,
2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und
3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind!

Benutze bitte das "Open Document Format" - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen -
auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! 

 

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most
are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

My daughter requests pink.

Maybe the only one.

I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so 
you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's content.

Half jokingly,
Michael

steve wrote:
> Ok,
> 
>   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
> get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
> ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
> innards and not the cosmetics.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> 
> Robin Paulson wrote:
>> 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
>>>  - Stylus
>>
>> personally, i'd want:
>> *a modified charger (if one is made)
>> *a pouch
>> included, and that's it
> 
> 
> I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. 
> Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm 
> sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh 
> well), but include *something*.
> 
> -id
> 
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DHL has a package for me!

[steve]

My samples arrived!

I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to
send them a copy of
My social security card or my taxes.



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RE: PVT Update.

[steve]

 Ha,

   I've talked to Ninja about doing a Vid of the first production build.
   The destructive test would also be a kewl thing.

   

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Olney
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:08 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: PVT Update.

maybe mokoninja could get behind the scenes and snap some pics or vids..

On 15/04/2008, nickd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi first post :) i don't suppose as part of the open nature of the 
> production that the few sick people (myself included) in the community 
> could see possibly some videos of the testing? namely the destructive 
> tests? i've learnt how to use technology by breaking it and would like 
> to see the snuf videos if possible
>
>  -nick
>
>
>  steve wrote:
>
> > ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental plane 
> > for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy.
> > we flew them for a little while. Then they took one.
> > Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off.
> > bastards.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Ortwin Regel
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AM
> > To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> > Subject: Re: PVT Update.
> >
> > The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
> > Still, poor Freerunners... :'(
> >
> > On 4/14/08, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a 
> > > product free of defects :)
> > >
> > > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >
> > > >  The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are 
> > > > destructive tests.
> > > > Where we try to break the phone.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
>
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>


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RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item

[steve]

 I'll look into it

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter
Mikkelsen
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:18 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: oredring the Freerunner as an research item


I was wondering if it would be possible to mark the shipment as "research
items". Since it is developer editions and not an end user product, I think
it makes sence. Can anyone from Openmoko confirm this?
 
Here in Norway, we can save some money if this is done. (This requires
Openmoko to send a paper to the Norwegian custom, informing that this is
research items)
 
Best regards,
 
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
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RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item

[steve]

i'll look into it, but this country by country selective processing is
defeating the purpose.
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter
Mikkelsen
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:02 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: oredring the Freerunner as an research item


On 4/15/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I was wondering if it would be possible to mark the shipment as "research
items". Since it is developer editions and not an end user product, I think
it makes sence. Can anyone from Openmoko confirm this?
 
Here in Norway, we can save some money if this is done. (This requires
Openmoko to send a paper to the Norwegian custom, informing that this is
research items)
 

I forgot to mention that we called to the Norwegian tax office to confirm
this. They said it was not any problem
-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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RE: PVT Update.

[steve]

It's gallows humor. If you have ever watched your hard work
Undergo destructive test, you don't know whether to laugh or cry. So, you
try to do a little of both.

I've asked that we do some kind of video when we go to Mass Pro. I never
thought of doing a 
Video of  destructive test, but I think it's a cool idea.  

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Manjos
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:08 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: PVT Update.

Calling it a snuff video is a little disturbing, but I too would like to see
some "behind the scenes" videos of production. I guess that in the end, one
electronics fabrication plant is just like every other plant, but some
testing videos would be cool to see.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 5:08 AM, James Olney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> maybe mokoninja could get behind the scenes and snap some pics or vids..
>
>
>
>  On 15/04/2008, nickd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > hi first post :) i don't suppose as part of the open nature of the  
> > production that the few sick people (myself included) in the 
> community could  > see possibly some videos of the testing? namely the 
> destructive tests? i've  > learnt how to use technology by breaking it 
> and would like to see the snuf  > videos if possible  >  >  -nick  >  
> >  >  steve wrote:
>  >
>  > > ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental  > 
> > plane for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy.
>  > > we flew them for a little while. Then they took one.
>  > > Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off.
>  > > bastards.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > -Original Message-
>  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf  > Of 
> Ortwin Regel  > > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AM  > > To: List 
> for Openmoko community discussion  > > Subject: Re: PVT Update.
>  > >
>  > > The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
>  > > Still, poor Freerunners... :'(
>  > >
>  > > On 4/14/08, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure 
> a product  > > > free of defects :)  > > >  > > > 2008/4/14, steve 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > >  The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are 
> destructive  > > > > tests.
>  > > > > Where we try to break the phone.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > > ___
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>  > > community@lists.openmoko.org
>  > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  > >
>  > >
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>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
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>
>
>  --
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>
>
>
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

The Happy dance   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD
--- steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
> Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 
> dance.
> 
> He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco 
> Trevisan (Treviño)"
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> 
> Ivo Anjo wrote:
> > Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,
> unless you get a
> > really really really good deal, because you can
> buy very high-capacity
> > nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for
> 512mb or such on the
> > neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely
> getting one of those
> > myself).
> 
> I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 
> actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 
> tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...
> 
> --
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
> 
> 
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RE: Trading in €uros ?

[steve]

It's much more complex than that. We will quote in USD. We buy components  in 
other currencies,  so as currency
changes, the value of what we hold changes as a function of currency 
fluctuations. At this stage of the game, the currency we quote
in is a minor issue. That said , the dollar sucks. Somebody has to.
 
 
 
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:53 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Trading in €uros ?


No matter how is the $, I think FIC is thinking in $, not un €, so if the $ 
falls, it's good for us, and nothing change for FIC regardly the $ 
previsions... I guess


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The figure in USD is as innacurate as anything else. You're not
actually paying $399 USD, you're paying the number of New Taiwan
Dollars that can be exchanged for $399 USD.

Rebasing the price in ANY currency means absolutely nothing since
(assuming you aren't paying exchange premiums) it's the same price. Of
course, they could say 399 Euros, in which case it would be getting
more expensive for EVERYONE.


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Didier Raboud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Didier Raboud wrote:
>
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > Just wondering. With the actual fall of the U$D, why not setting the Neo's
>  > prices in €uros ? (Which is actually pretty strong.) (or ¥ens, ...)
>  >
>  > This would imply a rising price (with time) for American customers instead
>  > of a falling one for European ones.
>  >
>  > Actually, the actual situation is good for me if the U$D continues to go
>  > down : my future Neo will cost less to me. :)
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > OdyX, aka Didier Raboud
>
>  Just to precise my thoughts...
>
>  The idea is not to have a rise of the price for American customers, but to
>  protect the value of the future Neo against a fall of the U$D. If the U$D
>  continues to fall, the real income back to FIC will fall with time. FIC
>  will then have to augment its prices which is not desirable...
>
>  Well... I'm not that much in Finance, so don't give my thoughts too much
>  value.
>
>  Regards, Didier
>
>
>
>
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-- 
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Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: DHL has a package for me!

[steve]

It was funny, the lady at Customs called and said, "you sound like an
american"

I could not resist instantly imitating my swedish grandmother. 
Probably not to bright on my part, but I was annoyed.

Anyway, I prezented my papers. FreeRunner is out of customs jail.

Customs Person: " These are samples; do they work?"
Annoyed Moshpit: " No, they are currently unemployed"










 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Frøyseth
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:07 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me!

Haha

But ARE you an american?? hmm
Perhaps you are an alien xD

Alexander Frøyseth

steve skrev:
> My samples arrived!
>
> I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have 
> to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes.
>
>
>
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

In a harlequin pattern no doubt. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:10 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a
1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to be in
black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime green and pink
but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants that...

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
>
> Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?
>
> steve schrieb:
> | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
> | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set 
> | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | -Original Message-
> | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael 
> | Shiloh
> | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
> | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |
> | My daughter requests pink.
> |
> | Maybe the only one.
> |
> | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic 
> | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to 
> | your heart's
> content.
> |
> | Half jokingly,
> | Michael
> |
> | steve wrote:
> |> Ok,
> |>
> |>   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I get 
> |> to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
> |> ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on 
> |> the innards and not the cosmetics.
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian 
> |> douglas
> |> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
> |> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> |> Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |>
> |> Robin Paulson wrote:
> |>> 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> |>>>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
> |>>>  - Stylus
> |>> personally, i'd want:
> |>> *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's 
> |>> it
> |>
> |> I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a
must-have.
> |> Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo 
> |> (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 
> |> was but oh well), but include *something*.
> |>
> |> -id
> |>
> |> ___
> |> Openmoko community mailing list
> |> community@lists.openmoko.org
> |> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> |>
> |>
> |> ___
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> |> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> |
> | ___
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RE: DHL has a package for me!

[steve]

 Cool idea.

 I should be headed up to Michael house on Thursday with the phones. DHL
promised them tommorrow.
Provided I am a true american.

I think one of my spawn here have a you tube camera. I'll pry it from their
sweaty paw if I can.
Otherwise michael may have something.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NeoSleg
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:10 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me!


Could you please take some pictures and make some movies ?



Just to help us waiting for it ;)



On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700, "steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My samples arrived!

> 

> I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have 
> to

> send them a copy of

> My social security card or my taxes.

> 

> 

> 

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RE: DHL has a package for me!

[steve]

Well to release the package to me they needed my social security number. 
BUT, they would not take it verbally over the phone. They needed written
proof.
 
Why? because as the customs lady explained, homeland security had audited
DHL and found out
that people had lied to them about their SSN. So, Now DHL requires written
proof of your SSN.
to clear customs.
 
I was  given two options: Provide a Copy of your social secuity card front
and back, or provide a copy
of your Tax forms with the financial data blacked out.
 
Whatever, the stuff is headed my way.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Bassett
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:12 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me!


awesome!

why does it matter that you are or are not an american?

-Kyle


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:57 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


My samples arrived!

I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to
send them a copy of
My social security card or my taxes.



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RE: DHL has a package for me!

[steve]

 Maybe we should just make an adventure film of Michael and Steve getting
FreeRunners. 
 
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:30 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: DHL has a package for me!


Post them to engadget/gizmodo?

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Frøyseth
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:24 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me!


Support that.
Please post som images :D
NeoSleg skrev: 

Could you please take some pictures and make some movies ?







Just to help us waiting for it ;)







On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700, "steve"  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



  

My samples arrived!





  


  

I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to





  

send them a copy of





  

My social security card or my taxes.





  


  


  


  

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RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item

[steve]

Just send me a personal reminder at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
And be persistent, nag me.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter
Mikkelsen
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:13 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: oredring the Freerunner as an research item


On 4/15/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

i'll look into it, but this country by country selective processing is
defeating the purpose.
 

Thank you! I really hope for the best:)
-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774> 
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

 what you guys actually want to see me dance?

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Frøyseth
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:53 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


wtf?
This is an hocky movie

steve skrev: 

The Happy dance   



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368



 



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas

Martinez

Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM

To: List for Openmoko community discussion

Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD

--- steve  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:



  

I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.

Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 

dance.



He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Marco 

Trevisan (Treviño)"

Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM

To: community@lists.openmoko.org

Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



Ivo Anjo wrote:



Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,

  

unless you get a



really really really good deal, because you can

  

buy very high-capacity



nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for

  

512mb or such on the



neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely

  

getting one of those



myself).

  

I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 

actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 

tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...



--

Treviño's World - Life and Linux

http://www.3v1n0.net/





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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Ole.

 Let's do a thought experiment

 I'll sell you all the red phones you care to buy at a deep discount.
 In fact, I will promise never to sell a RedRunner and let you have
 all of the red phone market.

 How many would you buy? 

 Today, they like red, yesterday it was pink, Tuesday will be herringbone.
That is fashion.
Skirts go up. They come down.

 Nothing wrong with that!

  But for now We are choosing a different path. 
 

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ole Tange
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:03 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
> >
> > Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?
>
> I do! :D (just kidding)

I recently was at a dinner with former colleagues. The subject turned to
OpenMoko and mobile phones. I asked my female former colleague what her
killer feature would be. Without hesitation she said: It has to be red. That
was the ONLY requirement.

When I told the story to my girl friend she said: "Can I get one in red,
too?"

Neither of them cared about about the size of,the phone (which I personally
find a big too large), as they were going to carry it in their bag.

I think we seriously underestimate that 50% of the population is female. If
painting it red can raise the sales, I would say, go for it.


/Ole

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

 Need to figure out how  Cyanea Octopus does it

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070209-octopus-video.html 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:23 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely wants
one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the white-and-markers
idea isn't such a bad one, eh?

Michael

Bastian Muck wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
> 
> Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?
> 
> steve schrieb:
> | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
> | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set 
> | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | -Original Message-
> | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael 
> | Shiloh
> | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
> | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |
> | My daughter requests pink.
> |
> | Maybe the only one.
> |
> | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic 
> | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to 
> | your heart's
> content.
> |
> | Half jokingly,
> | Michael
> |
> | steve wrote:
> |> Ok,
> |>
> |>   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I get 
> |> to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
> |> ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on 
> |> the innards and not the cosmetics.
> |>
> |>  |>
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian 
> |> douglas
> |> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
> |> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> |> Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |>
> |> Robin Paulson wrote:
> |>> 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> |>>>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
> |>>>  - Stylus
> |>> personally, i'd want:
> |>> *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's 
> |>> it
> |>
> |> I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a
must-have.
> |> Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo 
> |> (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 
> |> was but oh well), but include *something*.
> |>
> |> -id
> |>
> |> ___
> |> Openmoko community mailing list
> |> community@lists.openmoko.org
> |> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> |>
> |>
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HAPPY DANCE version .9

[steve]

 
Dhl delivered  goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage
boys. 

Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha.







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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to enable
others to seize these opportunities.
 
So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even
shipped. I think this decision is
underappreciated.
 
The per piece cost of plastic is small.  Go price a pound of plastic. The
risk is tooling. We reduced that
by making CAD data open.
 
Long LONG ago, you had to pay big set up fees to Print a document. That has
come down over time.
 
 I want to enable a world were you can print parts. Trust me, I am not happy
when I tell people
that they cant get pink. If you want pink, you should get pink.  
 
That doesnt entail that I should build pink. I enable people to make it pink
by publishing CAD files.
 
If you think pink, then I'll sell you the electronics that go under those
pink platistics
 
 
  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Davey
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:18 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


>From the involvement I've had with injection molding the costs of material
(ie the plastic) per piece it not very expensive, it's the mold tool that is
the expensive part.. For one project I'm involved in I think the mold tool
was something like $10KUSD.. This is a production quality (read high
quality) tool... I have heard of cheaper tools out of china I think (like a
few $K), but don't think the quality is as good..

Just my 2c

Regards
Neil Davey

Hugo Mills wrote: 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:

  

Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and 

start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.





   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more

or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes

involved -- just to see what it would take to do.



   Hugo.



  


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---

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Daveytronics.com.au



P.O. Box 6089

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QLD, 4114



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Talk to us and see what we can do for you

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

This is EXACTLY why we freed the CAD files 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugo Mills
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:58 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:
> Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files 
> and start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.

   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more or
less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes involved --
just to see what it would take to do.

   Hugo.

--
=== Hugo Mills: [EMAIL PROTECTED] carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk 
===
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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

I love emachineshop.

I thought of approaching them to do some kinda co promotion. Maybe Michael
Shiloh can weigh in here. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They do
injection molding of various plastics in "many" colors.

I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of cases
and then reselling them or not.

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank  
> cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of  
> making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and  
> then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just  
> selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no  
> idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.
>
>Hugo.

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RE: Mini jack 2.5mm?

[steve]

I have not decided on the final package contents Joerg.

When I do, I will let people know. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:35 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Mini jack 2.5mm?

32 Ohm pretty much is standard. Neo comes with standard headset.

For really god sound (with bass) you'll need a high Imp (= much Ohm)
headset. 
Up to 800 Ohm. More Ohm = more bass, up to 800 Ohm.

cheers
jOERG

Am Mi  16. April 2008 schrieb Alexander Frøyseth:
> Soo
> 32 Ohm is okey?
> How rare is they?
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev:
> > Am Mi  16. April 2008 schrieb Alexander Frøyseth:
> >   
> >> Perhaps that.
> >> But I want to listen to music with other thing then the headset 
> >> that follows.
> >> I know I need a 8Ohms headset to use it on the NEO But is 8 ohm soo 
> >> commen?
> >>
> >> Alexander Frøyseth
> >> 
> >
> > Nope, you should go for a 800 Ohm headset, which really isn't that 
> > common
at 
> > all.
> > GTA02 will ship with a 32 Ohm anyway... :-/
> >
> > cheers
> > jOERG
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >   
> 
> 



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RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9

[steve]

First question was can I play WOW on it.
 
I slap my head so hard I have no wrinkles in my forehead anymore.
 
better than Botox.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:56 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9


So it appears to be the destructive test ;)


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:41 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dhl delivered  goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage
boys.

Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha.







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-- 
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Well, you actualy have to design the case to allow painting.
 
Paint has THICKNESS. So if you look at the clearence for buttons, you would
have one clearence
for a non painted plastic and a bigger clearence for a painted plastic part.
 
I have made this mistake before, when I wanted to change colors at the last
minute and the painted plastic
parts didnt exactly provide the types of clearences ( etc) that you need.
All that said, there are parts on FR
that could be painted without ruining fit and function.  The back cover,
and front cover
 
The middle part which houses the UBS, ext ant, etc etc, is the part I would
worry about painting, because
of the clearence problem for the connectors and buttons that are brought out
through that plane of the device. 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:04 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


Hmm in this goal, why not Openmoko.com to sell "blank" case, non finished
ones, witout any painting, just to be customized/adapted later ?

I don't think only with painting, but integrate an eye cam or other
expansion pack, or wifi external connectors for example...

Even one water proof why not :) 



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Steven **
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote:


For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com
They do injection molding of various plastics in "many" colors.

I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of
cases and then reselling them or not.

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
>  cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
>  making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
>  then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
>  selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
>  idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.
>
>Hugo.

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RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9

[steve]

 Hey, it's been a while and there is no blood.  
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:15 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9

Is that supposed to stress the phone?  Or you?  ;-)

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Dhl delivered  goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two 
> teenage  boys.
>
>  Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha.
>

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RE: next costumers location

[steve]

There are differences. See the CAD files I cannot recall off the top of my
noggin what they are. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brandon Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:19 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: next costumers location

On Wed April 16 2008 2:30:04 pm AVee wrote:
> On Monday 14 April 2008 01:13, steve wrote:
> >A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace.
>
> *snif*
> I will now forever (or at least the rest of the day) regret not buying 
> a GTA01.
>
> AVee

Are the GTA01 and GTA02 cases the same?  If so, some lucky orange Neo1973
owners could sell some rare orange freerunner cases on ebay!

--

Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://onedollarlinux.com
BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Go for it. 

Let me know if I can help in any way. Off list. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Stubbs
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:36 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion; Hugo Mills
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On 16/04/2008, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I have no experience at all in manufacturing -- my closest moment  
> came when I did some work on production scheduling in a flour mill --  
> but I still thought it was worth finding out what it would cost to do  
> it. I doubt that I'll have the capital, drive or time to bring this  
> idea to fruition, but I might as well see what's involved...

Hugo,

I do happen to know a bit about this sort of thing. I know a guy in HK that
owns a tool maker and mold shop in China. I have had a few products that I
have designed made by him, and he is very good. If you have asked UK based
companies this question, I expect you may see a delay as they are all at a
show in Telford this week [1]. The guy in HK will probable be a lot cheaper,
and also quicker with the tooling.
The part prices may be a bit higher to account for the shipping.

Let me know if you want his details off list.

Regards,
--
Philip Stubbs

[1] http://www.pdmevent.com/

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RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting!

[steve]

 
I decided to do a test of sorts. I gave a phone to the boys and decided to
let them see if they could
Figure it out. I gave them 1 bit of info. Go buy a Pay as you go phone and
make sure it's GSM. Put
That Sim in the NEO. And I made them use their money. 

I also told them to make a you tube video. Then I said nothing else. They
went out to the stores
To get a pay as you go phone and to try to source a cable for the dang video
camera. They came back
And the cable for the video camera was the wrong one. I said nothing. We
opened the pay as you go
Phone. The plastic package was so thick I had two choices. Plasma torch or
garden shears. I chose the latter.

That's when the fight broke out between me and them. Who puts the simm card
in, etc etc?
"Dad you don't understand. Let us do it." So I did. They didn't want my damn
help and would not listen
To a fricken thing I said. I told them "fine dont screw it up."

About 10 minutes later my land line rings. Crap. Crap. crap. Who is calling
me now?

FreeRunner #98.

They will make a video later if  we can find a cable.  right now these boys
who never stop fighting are out having dinner together.

HA. Neo and world peace. I feel like miss america.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:26 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9

steve wrote:
>  
> Dhl delivered  goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two 
> teenage boys.
> 
> Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha.

If they break the hardware, is that a successful stress test?

Ian

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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

See what you think. The one issue might be that you have to use their design
Package ( a little funky) and I don't recall being able to get an data base
of your
Design files. So, it's a bit sketchy on the open philosophy side of things.
I havent been to their site in couple years, so lets check it out.

I'm headed up tommorrow. I have FreeRunners! 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:45 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I've never used emachineshop, but I will ask around. Perhaps some of my
friends have.

Michael

steve wrote:
> I love emachineshop.
> 
> I thought of approaching them to do some kinda co promotion. Maybe 
> Michael Shiloh can weigh in here.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT 
> update
> 
> For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They 
> do injection molding of various plastics in "many" colors.
> 
> I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of 
> cases and then reselling them or not.
> 
> -Steven
> 
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank 
>> cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of 
>> making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and 
>> then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just 
>> selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no 
>> idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.
>>
>>Hugo.
> 
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[steve]

Thanks Lon.

 Good comment. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lon Lentz
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:12 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 For quite a while now I've been reading comments from people saying that
this issue or that issue is a "deal breaker". I've been reading hardware
requests and demands that stretch the gambit from quaint and interesting to
just down right silly. If this is the environment in which all FOSS is
developed, it's amazing we have a kernel to run it all on. I'm all about
presenting and discussing ideas. But the making of demands in this
environment is extreme.

 FIC and OM have come up with a hardware platform to meet a predetermined
need and market. If someone thinks some major item is missing, create a
competitor. Fork the hardware.

 In all fairness though, I think calling the release of the CAD files under
appreciated is a little premature. Accessories companies are going to wait
to see what the adoption of this phone will be like.
Then they will make business decisions about risk versus benefit. If the
phone does become "successful", that is moving enough units to make it
profitable for FIC and the accessories makers, we will see the CAD files be
put to use outside of hobbiests.



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:07:18AM -0700, steve wrote:
>  > One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was 
> to enable  > others to seize these opportunities.
>  >
>  > So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has 
> even  > shipped. I think this decision is  > underappreciated.
>
>From reading this thread, I think you're right.

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RE: e-mail app on OM

[steve]

We should probably have a MOST WANTED list of apps on the Wiki  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:06 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: e-mail app on OM

i've had a look through the projects page, and done a quick search on the
wiki, and can't see an e-mail app anywhere. do OM have one planned, or is
this something that will be left to the community? is anyone working on
anything?

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