Re: [OT] Raspberry Pi

2012-01-02 Thread David Pottage
On 02/01/12 18:11, Ed Kapitein wrote:
 Hi All,
 Probably Off Topic, but for the ARM hackers among us, this [1] looks
 very promising.
Not entirely off topic.

I suspect one reason that GTA04 is getting releatively little interest
is because everyone is excited about raspberry Pi.

From speaking to other programers at my workplace, most are interested
in raspberry Pi, and many people have told me about it as new exciting
news, in a similar way to how I heard about Open Moko three years ago.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Recommendations for a data-only GSM/UMTS device in USB stick ff

2011-11-19 Thread David Pottage
On 15/11/11 01:24, Michael Sokolov wrote:
 Hello Om community,

 Given that the GTA04 contains an off-the-shelf UMTS module and, if my
 understanding is correct, truly off-the-shelf GSM/GPRS/UMTS modems in
 the consumer USB stick form factor have been used during the
 BeagleBoard prototyping phase for the GTA04, I've figured that someone
 here might have some experience with / knowledge of these USB sticks,
 hence me asking here...

 * I need this device to be capable of placing old-fashioned data calls,
   not just Internet access.  By old-fashioned data calls I mean the
   arrangement where one dials a number from the mobile device with
   ATDnumber (no semicolon at the end, making it a data rather than
   voice call), and the number being dialed is a POTS land line with a
   plain old analog modem answering the call.  I want to be able to
   connect to my personal data center from remote locations bypassing
   the Internet.
I think you will find that it is imposible to make data calls to an
analoge modem. The reason is that GSM and it's sucessor standards are
inherently digital, and are derived from ISDN telephone standards, so
nothing in your phone or in the phone network will create tones that
will be understood by an analogue modem.

Having said that, there should be no problem making data calls to
another GSM device or a digital trancever on the end of an ISDN phone line.

Given your other requirements for off the shelf hardware, I think your
simplest solution would be to buy a mobile phone with a data port, and
learn how to use that port as a GSM modem. For example I used to work
for Nokia, and I know that with their phones, if you put them into PC
Suite mode they will respond to AT commands on their serial/usb ports
and let you do dial up internet to your ISP, or any other phone number.
You may find that your current phone does what you need.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: FS Freerunner

2010-09-05 Thread David Pottage
 On 05/09/10 17:13, xChris wrote:
  I know about it.

 I had no luck, the FR does not 'see' my 3G SIM (three mobile UK).
 But the WTF is that a 2005 mobile (Nokia 6320i) CAN use that SIM and the FR
Is it that the FR can't read the SIM, or can't register with the network.

Three are well known for blocking all 2G phones on their network, though
the details of how they do it are fairly vague. One story is that they
disconnect SIMs that get used in 2G devices, another theory is that they
have a whitelist of approved devices, and only allow them to register.

I suggest you try another network.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: HELP: sim card not registering...

2009-02-24 Thread David Pottage
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:25:50PM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:

 I'm switching operator and today I got m y new sim card. The current one
 will stop working in a few work days, so I'm desperate (YES, I use
 the Freerunner as my main day to day phone): it's not registering.

 I followed these instructions and they worked flawlessly:

 Where this not enough?

 Where this not correct even though it worked?

 Please help...

 Well, a Nokia and an Ericcsson phone don't load it either so maybe the
 SIM card is borked. Ah well...
I had a similar situation where a prevously working SIM card stopped 
working in any phone, after being left in a Freerunner for about a month.

Is it possible that the Freerunner is somehow destroying SIM cards 
(heat, over voltage etc?)

The SIM card had previously worked fine in three different Nokia phones, 
then I put it in my Freerunner, and used it successfully for some calls 
and text messages. I then got busy with other things so I left my 
Freerunner on charge but not in use for about a month. After this period 
I found that the SIM card no longer worked in any phone.

In my case, my operator (Orange UK) was happy to send me a replacement.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: MD5 checksums for images

2009-01-13 Thread David Pottage

On Mon, January 12, 2009 9:13 pm, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 06:46:35PM +0100, Fernando Martins wrote:
 I've downloaded images for om2008.12, FSO and SHR and something that
 puzzles me is the lack of MD5 checksums on these repositories. The sums
 would just take a couple of minutes to put there, so I'm wondering if
 there is some other check going on by dfu before flashing??

 Whoever cares about MD5 checksums, nowadays, is putting up a farse, at
 least demand SHA256 ;)

The point of MD5 checksums is to check for download errors, truncated
files or the repository maintainer uploading the wrong file somehow.

It is not to protect us from black hats who might somehow replace a
correct image with a malware infected one. (If they are able to do that,
they can replace the md5sums file a the same time).

Anyway, MD5 sum checking is done automaticaly in many tools, and most
people are familiar with the commands to check MD5 sums, so if the images
come with MD5 sums they will be checked easily. If they come with another
sort of checksum, it will be harder to check, for no real benefit.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: auxlaunch ver 0.6

2008-12-01 Thread David Pottage
On Sunday 30 November 2008 23:24:07 Al Iasid wrote:

 Here's info on an update to auxlaunch, (finger-friendly
 app launcher and window switcher). Download at [1] and
 wiki page at [2]. Version 0.6 changes include:

Sounds interesting, would you care to mention which distro it is for?

From the screen shots it looks like ASU, but it would be nice to know for 

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel

2008-11-27 Thread David Pottage
On Thu, November 27, 2008 7:06 am, Denis Johnson wrote:

 ... Preferably using something like (if
 someone knows a Linux equivalent please chime in)

The linux equivalent is cdparanoia. Like EAC it will produce bit
perfect rips of audio CDs. It is a command line program

If you want a GUI, then you can use Grip. It is a GTK based program
that automates the whole process of ripping, track listing lookups, and
transcoding to your prefered compressed format. If you have a big stack
of CDs to rip, then you can easily sit there using your computer for
other things, and feed in a new CD every few minutes.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL

2008-11-15 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 14 November 2008 15:46:34 Yorick Moko wrote:
 somebody (leinir) on irc suggested you could maybe hire (leinir Tungsten Graphics being the
 people behind gallium3d of course)
 although I don't know how much openmoko is willing to spend on it

Unless we want a closed source driver, I don't think that would work.

Reading between the lines on the Tungsten Graphics website. it looks to me 
that they have one core graphics driver, that they keep porting to whatever 
chip they are asked to write a driver for, so in each case the core engine 
stays the same and only the hardware specific stuff gets changed.

If this is the case, I doubt they would be willing to produce a GPL driver, as 
that would require them either to publish the source of their entire engine, 
or to write a new one.

David Pottage.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Receiving empty sms after registration

2008-11-01 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 31 October 2008 12:03:33 Alexandre Girard wrote:

 I receive an empty sms each time I register with my phone provider
 (Bouygues in France, Simio in Spain), with an origin address like _@.

 Has anybody got the same behavior?
 Is it coming from the phone or from the provider?

I think that is a message from your operator to say that you have a new 
voicemail message. 

When the phone gets that message it should give you a new voicemail popup or 
other indicator instead of putting the message in your SMS inbox.

Could you phone your voicemail mailbox to see if this is the case?

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen

2008-10-26 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 25 October 2008 17:39:18 JW wrote:
 vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone

 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone
 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve
 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1

As others have said, lets not complicate the situation for software authors by 
radically changing the input methods. For this reason, I think the touch 
screen has to stay. Having said that I think input would be a lot easier if 
we had a few extra hardware buttons.

In order of preference

Option 1: Touchscreen. 
It would be nice though if we had a few extra buttons though. I suggest a 
joystick or mini trackball below the screen and a couple of soft keys on 
either side.

Option 3: Touchscreen + Mini qwerty.
The problem with this idea is that a small query is very hard to type on, and 
a big one will take a lot of screen real estate. The way I see it the only 
way a query keyboard can be incorporated into a future Openmoko device 
without compromising the screen is to make it slide out from the back like 
the Nokia N810. The problem with that is it will increase the bulk and cost 
by to much. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a small numeric keypad 
that won't take much room.

Option 2: Mini Qwerty, no Touchscreen
I HATE this idea, because it will make all existing Openmoko software 
incompatible. Please don't take this route.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Making sound work (was Re: New Rasterman Image...)

2008-10-07 Thread David Pottage
On Mon, October 6, 2008 12:11 am, Richy wrote:

 I somehow managed to get it to work to some extend. The phone isn'
 ringin, just vibrating, but I can talk and hear during a call..

 make sure you have gstreamer installed, also I added a lot of
 packages, with alsa, gst, openmoko-state, etc. Didn't work until
 reboot. (And due to the Neos booting-time I don't want to reboot
 after each package just to check...)

 Now, some PIM-software and this is near perfect :-)

I am also having trouble with sound. I can hear the other party during
calls, but apart from the The phone loudspeaker appears not to work. I
don't get any ring tones, and I can't hear music from media plays such
as pythm. I have installed pymixer, and have maxed out all the sliders
but still nothing.

I have also tried installing the snd_pcm_oss kernel module out of FSO,
but it will not load due to undefined symbols.

Any ideas. I am running the latest FDOM (Based on ASU 2008.9).

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: GSM Firmware crash

2008-10-05 Thread David Pottage
On Sunday 14 September 2008 16:10:12 Andreas Fischer wrote:
 Hi all,

 Yesterday I experienced a crash of the GSM firmware - my Freerunner
 started to vibrate and there was a message on-screen that stated that
 the GSM Firmware had crashed and that I would be unable to use phone

I have just had the same crash. I am using FDOM 20080927 firmware, and I had 
just made a call that was not answered.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: rescue my freerunner

2008-10-03 Thread David Pottage

On Fri, October 3, 2008 9:20 am, Sergey Alembekov wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 03:41:08PM +1000, nickd wrote:
 Worst case scenario, you might be able to create a backup of your rootfs
 (dfu-util -a rootfs -R -U backup_rootfs.jffs) and mount the image on
 loopback [1] and transfer your home directory back onto your Freerunner.
 Thank you for help, but unfortunately thereis known bug in dfu-util and
 becouse of it i can not do a backup.

How about preparing a MicoSD card with fresh copy of your preferred distro
on it. (ASU/Debian/etc), boot from that and then mount the rootfs and
either fix the offending files or take a copy of your data.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Suspend vs. Lock vs. Screen Off

2008-10-02 Thread David Pottage
Jason Cawood wrote:
 I'm using the latest FDOM, I believe it's based on 2008.09.  My question is
 what is the fundamental difference between pressing the power button to
 cause the phone to suspend, pressing the aux button to make the phone lock
 the screen and not pressing any buttons and letting the software timeout. 
 Mainly, I'm interested in battery life and how each action reduces power
When the device suspends Linux gets suspended to RAM in the same way as 
you can suspend most laptops. In this state the CPU and memory use very 
little power. The GSM module and parts of the chipset remain powered, so 
you should will still receive incoming calls and SMS messages. The idea 
is that the Main CPU will wake up if it receves and interupt from the 
GSM module, the power key or from varous other sources, but the rest of 
the time it will be suspended and use little power. This creates the 
illusion of being always on, but in fact only being on when the user is 
trying to use the device. Most modern GSM handsets work in the same way.

If you leave the device without pressing any buttons the screen 
backlight will go out. This saves a substantial amount of power but not 
as much as suspending. Depending on your settings, your freerunner may 
suspend after a time with the backlight out.

Pressing the Aux key to lock the screen does just that. The phone will 
turn out the back light or suspend according to it's settings.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Screen shot failure?

2008-09-16 Thread David Pottage
Iain B. Findleton wrote:
 Aborts with some message about not being able to convert the png CREATOR
 field to an ISO charset.

 Anybody know the solution to this one?
I have just taken a screenshot (for a bug report), using the methods 
described on the Wiki page.

The only snag is that fb2png is not avalable for Ubuntu, but you can 
download the rpm and extract the binary with alien

Steps are:

cat /dev/fb0 myscreenshot_001.raw
copy to your desktop
b2png myscreenshot_001.raw myscreenshot_001.png 9 480 640 16

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Chancing SIM card without reboot

2008-09-02 Thread David Pottage
Fredrik Wendt wrote:

 Just wanted to know if I'd damage the hardware by doing:

 0. Connect FR to computer using USB cable.
 1. Turn on FR (FSO-testing), fire up zhone.
 2. Open FR, remove battery, open SIM pocket, change SIM card, replace
 battery, replace back cover - all while the FR is running off power from

 In Sweden we have three GSM network operators (those with licenses to
 actually put GSM equipment to use) and having to wait 3-4 minutes after
 each SIM change really kills productivity and flow ...
There is a risk that you will damage the SIM card doing that, as it may 
receive power on the data pads before ground and power are connected. On 
consumer phones where the sim card is not under the battery there is 
normally some sort of switch on the SIM card compartment so that the 
phone, or at least the GSM module gets powered down if you attempt to 
remove the SIM card.

On the Freerunner, it would be best if you powered down the GSM module 
before you remove the SIM card. Perhaps in future we can add an applet 
to do that.

You might consider testing if the power gets removed from the SIM card 
pads when the GSM module is off, by probing it with a multimeter, though 
do so at your own risk, as there is a slight chance of damaging your 

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Is it possible to netboot a FreeRunner?

2008-08-31 Thread David Pottage
On Sunday 31 August 2008 16:34:35 Jeff Sadowski wrote:
 You would probably  need a driver built into uboot to recognize a usb
 network device or maybe a way in uboot to setup wifi. I know my avaya
 wireless phones look for new images on my tftp server when they boot.
 Maybe if there was a way to replace a live kernel that might work for

I think that would be the way to achieve a net boot, by faking it via the 
standard kernel.

To do this we have a menu entry for netboot, but what it actually does is 
starts the normal kernel in flash, passing a netboot command line option. The 
kernel boots and once it has loaded the usb-net drivers and suchlike, but 
before it starts userspace, it downloads the requested kernel over the usb 
network and runs it via kexec.

If that first stage boot to get the usb-net drivers is fast, then it will 
create the illusion of having netboot support, without the need to add 
support for usb-networking and all sorts of other tricky features to U-boot.

Of course it would be necessary to add this netboot support to the kernel, but 
I would imagine that it would be much easier, as it is only one feature into 
a  system with plenty of support functions for memory, I/O etc, rather than 
many into a system without.

In order for that feature to work universally, it would have to be in every 
kernel that is likely to be flashed into a freerunner, and the only way that 
will happen is if the developer is able to persuade Linus and the rest of the 
kernel people that it is a feature worthy of Linux. (They may take the view 
that it is an ugly hack and that sort of thing ought to be in the BIOS/U-Boot 

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Nokia wired headsets compatibility

2008-08-27 Thread David Pottage

On Mon, August 25, 2008 10:52 pm, Alberto Morales wrote:

 In this page at the wiki [1] describes the pinout of the headset
 connector. It also says that the four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack is used by
 motorola smartphones and the v-360. Both motorola smartphones and v-360
 are very difficult to get in stores because v-360 is more than three
 years old. I've spend today three hours in a dozen stores in my city and
 i only found one, new but in very bad state, and very expensive (~25


 Some new nokia mobiles have the same kind of connector. This wiki page
 [2] says that the nokia 3.5-2.5 adapters doesn't work, but says nothing
 about nokia headsets. Some nokia headset model numbers with the same
 plug are: HS-45/AD-54, WH-700, HS-44/AD-44, HS-47, HS-40. Have you tried
 any of these on the Neo?

I have one of those Nokia headsets (Came with my E51).

It does not work properly. When connected to the Neo, I only get sound it
one ear, and it is not very loud. I have not tested the microphone

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Krells!

2008-08-23 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 23 August 2008 08:25:08 Dale Maggee wrote:
 If you're like me, you're a big fan of gkrellm, and you always have it
 running so you can keep an eye on what your system is doing. I wanted to
 have a remote display of my FR CPU usage on my host, for the same reason
 - to be able to see at a glance what's going on.

 Looking at gkrellm's man page, I discovered that it can monitor a remote
 host which is running gkrellmd - the gkrellm daemon.

You can do the a similar thing with ksysguard.

I have debian running on my freerunner, so it was simple to install it, and 
monitor my freerunner's process table, cpu and memory consumption remotely

You need to install ksysguardd which is the demon that ksysguard connects to.

I also found that I could not directly connect to the demon, instead I needed 
to use an SSH tunnel. To do that, I added my ssh key as authorised 
in /root/.ssh, and started an ssh agent on my desktop PC, with my key loaded.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Cincinnati Bell Wireless

2008-08-23 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 22 August 2008 02:47:00 Nick Matteo wrote:
 I intend to buy a FreeRunner.  This will be my first time owning a
 cell phone, though.
 My service plan is offered through my university by Cincinnati Bell
 Wireless, and includes a free phone.  Can I expect that removing the
 SIM card from the free phone and placing it in the FreeRunner will
 work?  (IE, allow calls and SMS.  I'd do any data over wifi.)


A quick google search shows that Cincinnati Bell Wireless operate a GSM 
network, which is compatible with the freerunner. You should get a 850MHz 

It is possible that your network may use nasty tricks to prevent you from 
using the SIM card from the free phone in your freerunner. It is possible to 
lock SIM cards to a particular handset for example, however this is fairly 

Welcome to the freerunner club.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Qualcomm Snapdragon? (Re: Intel Atom )

2008-08-14 Thread David Pottage

On Thu, August 14, 2008 4:25 am, Urivan Saaib wrote:
 What about the QC Snapdragon?


Qualcomm have a history of being a very litigious company. Just look at
their ongoing litigation with Nokia over CDMA patents. I would be worried
that if we got on the wrong side of them, they would sue OpenMoko faster
than you can say software patent.

With someone like Qualcomm, I would want all the drivers and all the docs
under a GPL license before I would consider them, preferably GPL-3 with
it's even stronger protections against software patents and similar

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?

2008-08-12 Thread David Pottage

On Mon, August 11, 2008 6:09 pm, Ilja O. wrote:
 I've got confirmation @ Jul 24
 Your item has been shipped message @ Jul 28
 And received it today (11 Aug).

 That's in Europe.
 Quite slow, but you'll eventually get it.

I got mine yesterday, about a month after I ordered, so yes, very slow.

I orderd the full body protector, but now that I have it, I don't think it
is worth having. All I received was a screen protector, and a series of
cut out section, which are meant to be molded around the case. It would
probably work well for something with a flat face like an iPod, but I
don't think it would work for the freerunner.

I would suggest that anyone else buys just the screen protector.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list

Hardware buttons not working in 2007.2 build

2008-08-03 Thread David Pottage

I have a freerunner, which I have updated to the latest 2007.2 build using 
opkg update, and I have found that it is now ignoring the hardware buttons.

I know that the buttons themselves work, and that there is not a hardware 
fault because the work normally in uboot, and Qtopia.

Has anyone else seen this. Can you suggest a solution?

Or should I just put up with it until ASU is released at the end of the week.


Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Removing SMS Messages from OM

2008-08-01 Thread David Pottage
John Whitmore wrote:
 Sorry can't find answer to problem.

 Hello all, Well my OpenMoko has arrived and I'm very happy with it. 
 Thanks to all the people who've made this happen. I do hope that in the 
 future I can join the contributors.

 Before that I've got two minor problems which somebody might be able to 
 direct me to the solutions on the wiki. I can't seem to find them.

 Firstly my Irish Vodafone SIM card don't work so I'll have to get a new 
 one tomorrow. In the mean time I plugged in a friend's SIM just to see 
 if that worked. It did, so that I know it's a SIM issue, but now I've 
 got a load of my friend's SMS messages in my OM phone :-( Never thought 
 that would happen. OK what was I thinking, but could somebody tell me 
 where the OM stores it's SMS's and can I delete them?
They are in:


Hope this helps

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

2008-07-30 Thread David Pottage
On Wed, July 30, 2008 9:07 am, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:

 I will not reply to comments like these in detail. You would not


Ad homen attacks aside, you need to respond in public to Marcus's
substantive points. He is an important community developer, and he is
expressing real issues that are widely felt. Tango GPS is a killer
application for OpenMoko, and if we loose it, then we substantially
weaken the platform, you should think very carefully before burning
that bridge.

I don’t think it was helpful for him to insult you, I guess he was
angry, but regardless his points about getting a working platform now
are important. You want to build up a community around OpenMoko, from
which you hope will flow lots of useful applications. You where very
successful in doing that before the hardware was released, but now that
it has, and thousands of enthusiast have put down a months rent on a
unit of hardware there is widespread frustration.

None of us expected an iPhone like polished and fully integrated
software stack, but we did expect a developer friendly platform with
some basic functionality that would mostly work. Instead the software
distributions are forked 5 ways, and none of them work. I am sure I am
not the only person who is disinclined to put any effort into finding
or fixing the many bugs because I have no idea which distributions will
emerge from the mess.

You hope that the community to come up with lots of useful applets and
full applications, to run on the first open cell phone. For that to
happen most people will be 'scratching an itch' The problem is that
they will not chose to use an OpenMoko to scratch that itch unless they
are carrying it with them, which won't happen until basic phone
functionality is working, and most enthusiasts are carrying their
OpenMoko as their personal phone. The Wiki and Mailing lists are
absolutely brimming with ideas, many of which would be quick to code in
a scripting language, but none of this will happen until the basics are

As Marcus says, the staff a OpenMoko need to put FSO/ASU aside for a
while at least and refocus on getting working phone functionality from
OM2007.2 as soon as possible. All the design docs are already there on
the Wiki and have been for 18 months, it just needs implementing. Once
the ecosystem has been started properly you can spend time if you must
on your blue sky projects with their clever design.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list


2008-07-27 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 26 July 2008 22:15:54 David Pottage wrote:

 The SMS applet on my phone is doing the same.

 If I try to start it from the command line. I get 4 coppies of the error

 Gtk-WARNING **:gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with
 width -11 and height -11

 and a Segmentation fault.

I have just reproduced the bug again gdb I now get:

Program received signal SIGSEGV ...

0x40c3786c in g_utf8_casefold() from /usr/lib/

And that is as far as I can get.

It is a fatal bug in a fundamental bit of phone software, that no one is 
attempting to fix. I know that everything about the freerunner is alpha 
quality and that I should not expect anything to work properly, but I would 
expect an environment where bugs like this are easy to fix. Instead no one is 

Thanks to the confusion over distros, I am not willing to look at this any 
further, because I have no idea if the GTK based messaging application will 
be in use in 3 months time, so any effort I put into further isolating or 
fixing this bug could be wasted.


On a separate note, does anyone know where in the filing system the received 
messages are stored, as I would like to write a script to parse them. 
Grepping the entire filing system for likely words has not found anything.

Openmoko community mailing list

Re: device only powers up on its own

2008-07-26 Thread David Pottage
Dimitri wrote:
 Thanks guys for responding so quickly. I didn't realize that I had to hold
 down the power button for 5 seconds; I was only holding it down for maybe 3
Alternatively, you can hold down the AUX button while you press the 
power button to bring up the boot menu. That way you only have to hold 
down the power button for a much shorter time.

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2008-07-26 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 26 July 2008 07:53:01 stef wrote:
 i've got my freerunner since thursday and it works quite fine except the
 SMS applet.
 At first I could open the applet and send messages but now it fails. When I
 try to start the
 applet it seems to be loading but it stops after a while. Is there any way
 to fix it or to reinstall
 the applet??

The SMS applet on my phone is doing the same.

If I try to start it from the command line. I get 4 coppies of the error 

Gtk-WARNING **:gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with 
width -11 and height -11

and a Segmentation fault.

I imported about 400 contacts using the one of the scripts on the Wiki page 
about VCF contacts (1), and considering the number it is likely that some are 
null, so I deleted them all using another script on that page and the SMS 
applet started working again.


Openmoko community mailing list


2008-07-26 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 26 July 2008 22:15:54 David Pottage wrote:

 The SMS applet on my phone is doing the same.

 If I try to start it from the command line. I get 4 coppies of the error

 Gtk-WARNING **:gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with
 width -11 and height -11

I have just started messages again with the address book fixed, and I still 
get those warnings. I guess they have nothing to do with this bug, they are 
just random unfixed warnings.


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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread David Pottage

On Sun, July 20, 2008 3:28 pm, arne anka wrote:
 a gsm cell is usually much bigger than most restaurants -- and gps might
 not be available inhouse.

True, but you can still use the GSM cell to determine that you are not in
the restaurants, because you are in a different cell on the other side of
town. The rule interpreter could check he GSM cell ID to determine if you
might be near enough to a significant point before starting the GPS to
determine your exact location.

Alternatively, the user might decide that for most rules, the approximate
location from the GSM cell is good enough. For example, my local cinema is
in a fairly isolated spot out of town. If I am within a couple of miles of
it, the chances are I will be going to the cinema shortly, or I have just
left, so a rule switching the phone to silent mode if I am in the same GSM
cell as the cinema would be good enough.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Accelerometer(s), Camera, and Memory

2008-07-19 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 19 July 2008 19:47:38 Dee Ayy wrote:
 Is there no camera?  After tracking my stolen phone with 2
 accelerometers and GPS, my app will like a nice candid snapshot/video
 of the culprit.

There is no camera. Also you can't use the accelerometers to do ineral 
navigation for more than a short time because there are no gyroscopes, or 
high precisson. The accelerometers are more usefull for gestures, detecting 
which way is down, and detecting free fall (ie dropping your phone). You 
could for example configure your phone to reject calls if it is face down, or 
sound a loud alarm if you drop it more than 60cm.

 My head is spinning.  Somewhere I think I came across an 8GB maximum
 SD size.  Can I not use the largest SD size I can find?

I have never heard of a limit, it is just that 8Gb is the largest size 
currently available. I dare say you will be able to use larger size cards 
when they become available.

 Where can I find documentation or APIs?  The above thread mentions
 /dev/input/event3  Is it mentioned somewhere at ?

The phone runs linux, and most of the APIs are the same as linux, so you can 
look for docs in the usual places. For phone specific stuff, check the Wiki, 
openembedded or the mailing list archive.

 Is the DBoard like a physical simulator for the closedPhone?  In other
 words, can I do development with only a Neo FreeRunner?

There is a simulator you can run on linux. It runs ARM binaries and emulates 
some of the phone hardware. You can also develop some types of X applications 
for the phone on your linux desktop, and then re-compile for the phone when 
you are ready, however now that hardware is available you are probably better 
off buying a phone, rather than relying exclusively on a simulator.

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Re: Possible Camera

2008-06-18 Thread David Pottage

On Wed, June 18, 2008 12:40 pm, christopher bradski wrote:
 Good Morning Community,
  I was browsing around the other day and found a cmos camera at Its a
 1.3 mega pixel camera and doesn't have much current draw and under $10.
 not an electrical engineer but was wondering how feasible(with some
 soldering skills and a basic electronic understanding) it would be to
 this the the freerunner? The data sheet is included on the site. Thank you
 all in advance for your help.

I assume you are thinking of building a small daughter board with the
camera on, connecting that board to the freerunner mainboard somehow, and
mounting the camera in a modded case?

I would say your chances of adding one to an existing freerunner is quite
slim. The freerunner has an I2C bus to control it so that part would be
easy, but it looks like it needs an 8 bit I/O port to get the picture data
out, and I don't think the freerunner has an accessable one you could tap

Also the whole camera is surface mount, which would make it fairly tricky
to mount on your daughter board.

None of these things would prevent a camera like this being included in a
future OpenMoko design, but don't think it would be possible for anyone to
add a camera like this to an existing phone.

If you want a working camera on your freerunner, then I suggest you look
for one that connects via USB, as that is a much easer bus to connect to.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Dual SIM?

2008-06-12 Thread David Pottage
On Thu, June 12, 2008 3:21 pm, Bumbl wrote:

 would it, in theory, be possible to emulate a 2nd sim-card which was
 inserted and saved on the flash memory before and switch between it
 and the inserted one?

In theory this is possible if you can extract the 128 bit crypto key
inside the SIM which is used to authenticate the SIM card to the
network. Because of weaknesses in the crypto algorithms used by GSM it
is possible to extract that secret from a SIM card using about 60 000
chosen challenges, which can be done in about 12 hours. (assuming the
SIM card does not have a retry counter)

If you manage to do all of that, then yes you could have as software
copy of one or more SIM cards and switch between them, thought the GSM
module will only ever be able to use one at a time.

You should also bear in mind, that some people may consider cloning SIM
cards to be illegal computer hacking or circumvention technology,
especially networks who might object to you using cloned SIM cards to
do least cost routing.


David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Font type and size was (QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03)

2008-06-11 Thread David Pottage

On Wed, June 11, 2008 2:59 am, Dale Schumacher wrote:
 If your current display is around 150dpi, you can see what QVGA would be
 like with something like this:

 xterm -fn '*-clean-*--6-*-c-40*' 

 This will give you a terminal window with a 4x6 font cell (3x5 for
 characters + 1px spacing).  Note that the automatic smear bold make this
 font unreadable, but the non-bold works.

 However, I would much prefer to use a larger font on a VGA-size display
 with 285dpi, like this:

 xterm -fn '*-clean-med*--16-*-c-80-*' -fb '*-clean-bold*--16-*-c-80-*' 

Thank you for that. You have added some useful light to the discussion on
graphics resolution compared with all the heat. It is a simple test that
anyone running Linux, or most other X servers (even cygwin) can run.

Having tried the test myself I would say the difference is like night and
day. At QVGA you can just about log into your box to reboot your web
server if you need to, but the whole experence is quite painfull. At full
VGA you can examine log files and the like and actualy figure out the root
cause of any problems and fix them.

This is the difference between windows sysadmins (reboot at the first sign
of trouble), and unix sysadmins who actually find and fix the root cause.

For myself I already have a QVGA Nokia phone with PuTTy, so I can log in
remotely in an emergency, but VGA is so nice that with a Freerunner I
probably would log in in other situations as well.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm

2008-05-30 Thread David Pottage

On Fri, May 30, 2008 7:18 am, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:

Prefer B - Classic 3.5 mm connector.

If I want a headset to make calls on, I will buy a BT one. There are loads
to chose from these days from cheap chinese things up to high end High,
but for listening to music I want to be able to plug in a 'normal' set of
headphones. (Bluetooth A2DP headphones are expensive)

I also like the Idea of copying the iPhone standard of a 3.5mm headset
with an extra ring for the Microphone. I have also seen that in the past
on some Motorola phones.

 Hi community!
 A short poll: on a future GTA0x (2), would you prefer to have
 A) standard 2.5mm headset (mic+phones) connector, where you have to buy
 cheap adapter if you want to use your old headphones, (the way like it's
 for GTA01/02)
 B) classic 3.5mm headphones Walkman(R) connector, where you have to DIY
 adapter for any standard cellphone headset? (or does anybody know of 3.5mm
 headSET standards or adapters?)

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: using the openmoko neo101 in mass storage mode

2008-05-30 Thread David Pottage

On Fri, May 30, 2008 10:09 am, Andy Green wrote:

 ~ But not mass storage: this operates in block mode and requires complete
 ownership of the storage by the host then (since if we have it mounted
 too, we will write conflicting things to directory structures, etc).

Could we emulate a block device, so that Windows thinks it has sole
ownership of a USB block device with a FAT32 FS on it, but for every block
access call it makes we intercept the call, figure out what file windows
is trying to read or write to, make the corresponding change to our local
files (on and ext3 volume), and return emulated results back to windows.

I dare say windows would get confused if I file it had cached got changed
by Linux, but the user could probably put up with that.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread David Pottage
On Thu, May 8, 2008 7:17 am, Robin Paulson wrote:

 it's not just the trust thing; it's for when things go wrong. there
 are many possible slip-ups between california and my house, and i
 would prefer knowing that if the unpredictable happens, we're all
 covered, and know where we stand.

 and US$4000 is a lot of money, for people i don't know; i'm just not
 that trusting. nor do i expect the others in my group to hand over
 that sort of cash with no cast-iron assurances

I think that the worry of things going wrong can be reduced if you form a
local group (or join an existing LUG) and hand over phones and cash in

Personally, I would be quite wary about sending full or part payment for a
phone to someone I had never met in person, but I would be quite happy to
drive for a couple of hours to meet them at their house, give them cash
for a phone, and then come back a week later to collect the phone that had
been ordered, because I would know that they where a real person, and I
would know their street address in case they turned out to be a frudster.

If there was an arrangement to pay half before ordering and half on
collection and the group organizer wanted to take a copy of my photo ID to
protect themselves against me not turning up with the second payment, then
that would also be fine.

Conversely, if I was a group organizer, I would want everyone in the group
to visit me in person at least once to devlever money. If anyone who
wanted to conduct the whole transaction via post and email, I would want
the whole cost of the phone up front, and I would use a fully insured,
signature on delivery courier to deliver the phone, which would cost the
buyer more.

I realize that meeting up in person would not suit everyone, but I think
it is the best solution to resolve trust issues, even if you spend more on
fuel  driving to the meet than you save on postage.

David Pottage

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Re: research project topic

2008-04-27 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 25 April 2008, simarillion wrote:
 Hi community,

 I'm studying electrical engineering at Karlsruhe University in Germany and
 I nearly finished.
 Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big fan of
 the openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. I've got an offer
 from an Institude to do something like that. I must give them a topic that
 must contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research with
 the freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko
 community and seems to be something that institute would support. It should
 not be only writing a gui or something like that.
 I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something. This project
 should last between 3 and 6 months. I'am also trying hard to be allowed to
 give my research solution back to the community, as kind of code or

How about some software to turn GPS locations (lat/long) into place 
descriptions that more people will understand. Lat/Long format is not very 
usefull for most people unless they are navigating by sea or air, as most 
maps are not ruled with lat/long grids. It would be much better to convert to 
the grids used on the maps people commonly have. In most places that will be 
road and atlases that may not use a national grid, but will probably use the 
same basemap and projection.

I am thinking of giving the user their current location in a format like: 

Michlen Road atlas of France, 2008 Ed, Page 53, square D2, top left corner

The user would tell the software which maps and atlases they own, and would 
then be able to convert opaque lat/long locations to a format that is more 
easy to find on the map they have. This could be used for their current 
location, the location of other people (via Stroller's SMS idea), and with 
the help of OpenStreetmap as a gazetteer of other places.

Converting between nationally recognised grids should be simply a question of 
feeding in the correct parameters into a conversion formula. In principle 
converting to the proprietary grids used by road atlases should not be any 
harder once you find out what projection, scale etc the atlas uses. This 
should be fairly easy to calculate if you can feed in the map reference of a 
number of landmarks, and corelate those places with their locations on 
OpenStreetmap. The complication is the mult page format of atlases, and the 
fact on most the grid does not contine from one page to the next. (eg page 
one might have squares 1-6, but turn the page and they start again at 1 
instead of continuing to 7).

What I suggest is that you come up with a helper application that community 
members can use to feed in the parameters for the atlases they own. The 
information can then be uploaded to a central database and shared by all 
users. The parameter entry application would ask the user to look at the 
index page of their atlas, and say how many pages wide and high the overall 
mapped area is, how the page numbering works (eg are successive rows north or 
south of each other), If there are any sections of a different scale, or 
projection, and what grid format is used on each page. The application would 
then ask the page number and grid reference of a sucesson of places taken 
from OpenStreetmap, until it had deduced the map projection, scale etc to 
sufficient precisson.

David Pottage

Openmoko community mailing list

RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

2008-04-25 Thread David Pottage

On Fri, April 25, 2008 2:18 pm, Crane, Matthew wrote:

 Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
 idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
 properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
 would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
 without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can
 be added and removed without warning.

I don't think this is a practical idea, even if it would work (which I
doubt). The problem is that unlike cyphers like PGP, analogue audio
cyphers are fairly easy to break with modern computers, and anyone
attempting to eavesdrop on your voice call will quite well resourced.

Analogue audio scramblers are probably helpful for wired phone calls where
you might be worried about a low tech attack such as a Hotel telephonist
recording your phone call to your mistress, and then using it to blackmail
you, but for GSM calls, the air interface between your handset and the
base station is usually encrypted using the A5 cypher. So the only way
someone can listen to your call is by having access to the telephone
company switch. This could be via hacking, a corrupt employee, or lawful
intercept. Either way the eavesdropper is likely to have access to all the
equipment he needs to decrypt a simple voice scrambled call.

The way I see it, the only way you can get encrypted voice calls is either
to wait until both you and the other party are near WiFi access points,
and do it over VOIP, or to do VOIP over GSM, and put up with the huge
latency, which will give you a walke-talkie like connection.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Freerunner AC adaptor

2008-04-22 Thread David Pottage

On Tue, April 22, 2008 5:19 am, Jeremy List wrote:
 I would be very surprised if there was any law in New Zealand against
 importing things with foreign power plugs as a few years ago I bought a
 palm treo which required an adaptor.

 Adaptors for devices which have the wrong shape of plug but don't mind
 240V AC @ 50Hz are much cheaper and more efficient than ones which
 actually convert the electricity to whatever voltage is standard in the
 U.S. When I finally get a freerunner, would I fry the charger and/or the
 phone by using that kind of power supply?

I doubt this will be a problem. If you look at the photograph of the
charger and it's adapters. You can see that the charger has flat prongs
for American sockets, and that two adapters are supplied. On the top right
is an adapter with two round pins suitable for most parts of western
Europe. On the bottom right is one with three rectangular prongs for the
UK and some former British colonies such as India.

These days most wall wart adapters are switch mode power supplies and can
handle a large range of voltages, so I would be quite surprised if the
Freerunner one can't, though obviously I will check the rating printed on
it before I plug it into the mains for the first time.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

Openmoko community mailing list


2008-04-11 Thread David Pottage
On Fri, April 11, 2008 3:57 pm, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

 ramsesoriginal writes:

 [snip] ... I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone
 and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just
 Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which
 standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended
 clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds?
 GPS data? files?

 I've synced anything I've wanted to (going to/from a linux box) using
 'rsync -auv'

I don't think ramsesoriginal was asking about syncing the filesystem
which you would sync with rsync, but about synchronizing his address
book (contacts) calendar etc.

In general the solution is to use SyncML, which is an open standard for
synchronization between phones, desktop computers, and internet sync
servers. It can use a variety of transports including bluetooth and
TCP/IP, and works by exchanging vCard files, for contacts, and similar
vCal etc files for calendar events and the like. It should be fairly
easy to port a sync client or server to Open Moko.

I have done some experimenting with syncing my Nokia phone with my
Linux desktop. The syncing part went fairly well, the problem was that
Kontact would not play nice as a sync target, so I was only able to
sync the contacts DB on my phone with a directory full of vCard files
on my Linux box, rather than with my groupware client which is what I
was really trying to achieve. Proper sync support is on the roadmap for
the next version of Kontact, so everything should work properly fairly
soon. I am eagerly awaiting the next Ubuntu release in order to give
that a try.

Another exciting possibly is that seeing as the OpenMoko phone is a
full Linux computer it could be used as a Sync server, making it
possible to sync with another cellphone without the need for a normal
computer. If we could have that as a standard feature on the consumer
version of the Freerunner it would be very cool.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Loosing your moko

2008-04-09 Thread David Pottage
, especially anyone based in a country with
weak privacy laws or oppressive law enforcement. I think Germany might
be a good choice for that.

The third issue is about the owner of the phone tracking the person who
is currently in possession of it. In this discussion people are talking
about having their phone stolen, loosing up its location, and then
forwarding that location to the police. Or perhaps loosing their phone,
and using the database to find out where they left it. However we also
need to consider the privacy implications of employers tracking their
staff, spouses tracking each other if they suspect infidelity, and
parents tracking their children, or elderly relatives. An openmoko
owner could easily turn on tracking, and then give the phone to someone
they wish to track without telling them that they will be tracked. This
would be illegal in a lot of places. Obviously there is nothing to stop
someone writing their own program to do that, but I think openmoko
should be careful to ensure that the out of the box tracking software
is legal and has appropriate safeguards.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that there is one global solution to this,
as individual privacy laws vary a lot from country to country. Perhaps
the best solution is to gather the data (if the user registers), but
only to allow the owner access to it if the phone is in a country where
such tracking is allowed. Even if tracking is not allowed we would
still allow police access in case of theft. To avoid tracking people
without their knowledge, there should be a pop up at random intervals
(every few days), reminding users that they are being tracked. That way
it would be hard for someone to covertly track another person. The
popup could be disabled if a ‘stolen’ flag is set in the central DB.
(via a request from the police).

That is my view.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Using Wi-fi on Neo FreeRunner

2008-03-12 Thread David Pottage

On Tue, March 11, 2008 9:31 pm, Robin Paulson wrote:

 is there anything underway to allow nokia n-series software to run on
 the neo? is it just a matter of installing hildon and some other
 dependencies? if it's possible, there is always skype

That is like asking if there is anything available to run windows software
under Linux, and asking that question about 10 years ago.

Nokia smartphones run a completely different OS known as Symbian Series
60. In theory someone could start a project similar to Wine that would
provide an API layer to allow Series 60 applications to run under ARM
linux. (Both the Neo 1973, and Nokia phones use ARM CPUs), but in practice
it would be a huge project, so is unlikely to happen any time soon.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer

2008-03-06 Thread David Pottage
On Thu, March 6, 2008 12:11 pm, Schmidt András wrote:
 Joseph Reeves wrote:
 Dear all,

 Please excuse my blatant blog-promotion, but here's a short entry on
 my use of the Neo1973 and tangoGPS as a bicycle computer:

 In PDA shops you can buy a bicycle mount for PDA's. I hope it will be
 compatible with the Neo.

More of a problem is the fact that the Neo is not waterproof, and if you
put it in a waterproof case, the touch screen can't be used.

Perhaps it would be possible to attach a waterproof external keyboard via
USB, and control the Neo using that. The keyboard cable would pass via a
well sealed hole in a waterproof case.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders

2008-02-25 Thread David Pottage
On Monday 25 February 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote:
 Ivo Anjo wrote:
   3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we
   will open the web store and begin taking orders.
  Does this mean that it will be possible to purchase openmoko from
  inside the EU, so there are no random customs taxes? That would be

 Hi Ivo,

 That is certainly our intention, which is why we have been trying to set
 up distributors in as many places as possible.

 The only one I know of so far is in Germany. Since that's in the EU,
 that should work for you, right?

It would work, but the rate of sales tax is fairly high in Germany. Under EU 
rules, Europeans can buy stuff from anywhere in the EU, and pay the sales tax 
rate prevalent in the country where the shop operates instead of the rate in 
their home country.

If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such 
as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared 
with buying from a German web shop.

Having said that, it is not a huge cost, and having a web shop any where in 
Europe is a great improvement over importing from the Far East.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)

2008-02-10 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 09 February 2008, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

 At least the 1973-compatible Nokia batteries will probably be
 available for a long time (as I'm hoping the Nokia 770 batteries will
 be), but there is still the problem with charging them (the phone
 cannot do it).  The rule of thumb is that no LiIon battery will last
 longer than 3 years or so.

I think we are probably safe on that. The Nokia BL5C is used in quite a lot of 
different Nokia phones, including a number of very low cost models for 
developing countries. Those phones will get manufactured in huge numbers 
(perhaps 100 million), and will be around for a long time. Due to their huge 
numbers, and the fact that some of the owners won't have the money to upgrade 
for a long time, I doubt spare parts availability will be a problem.

You might consider buying one of these cheap phones, both as a backup to use 
if a software update renders you Neo 1973 temporally unusable, and to charge 
the spare battery. I have a Nokia 1100, as a spare, and I use it's battery 
interchangeably with other devices.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES:

2008-01-13 Thread David Pottage
Ted Lemon wrote:
 On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/

 Sure you can - put a switch in the phone's advanced preferences!   :')

 Anyway, I have always felt that with a little dress-up, the verbose
 startup could become reassuring rather than alarming.   The reason
 it's alarming is mostly that it just sits there saying nothing
 intelligible to the end-user.   If it said things like probing for
 Atheros ethernet device...   found. or configuring network... then
 the end user might be less alarmed.   If you don't know any better
 though I think it looks too much like a Windows crash, to which
 old-timers are too painfully accustomed.
On the non verbose startup screen, Can we have a progress bar with a
percent complete, Where certain percentage steps, have defined meanings,
so if I see a device that gets as far as 27% I can search online and
find out that it found the Atheros Ethernet, but did not get as far a
probing the GSM interface.

In my day job I spend some of my time supporting a database application,
it does not have verbose startup, but I know that 30% is when it sees
the license server, 35% for the backed database etc, which is almost as
good, once you know which steps mean what.

Obviously to be useful, the steps and their meanings should be as fixed
as possible, so we would have to leave gaps in the numbering scheme, a
bit like leaving gaps in the line numbers a program in an early dialect
of the basic language.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: What to use while waiting of v2?

2007-12-16 Thread David Pottage
Ben wrote:
 I can't hold out any longer.

 I need a PDA that will work as reliably as possble, have a few options
 for easy automatic sync (with Mac or Linux) or at least automatic
 backup. I will be using it to implement GTD (Getting Things Done).

 Phone not essential.

 I don't need it to be open, non-evil, etc. I just need it's
 shortcomings to be outweighed by the ease of backup and sync it has
 over a Hipster PDA (Notebook and Pen).
Nokia N800 or N810?

Both are Linux PDA  web tablet like devices, running linux, (and I
think GTK), so depending on your view of Nokia, they are fairly open and
non-evil. They don't have a Cellular interface though, so the only way
they can be used for phone calls is via Skype or another VoIP service
when you are near a Wi-Fi hotspot.

The N810, which was announced recently and may not be available yet, has
a slide out keyboard and a GPS, otherwise it is similar to the N800.

They are remarkably small, more like a large smartphone than a PDA.

I work for Nokia, (but not in device development) BTW, so you may wish
to take my views with some salt.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer

2007-10-12 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 12 October 2007, Oliver wrote:
 I've had similar ideas, but haven't posted them yet. Here's one:

 Imagine you're surfing the internet, or checking a map, or something like
 that. We don't have a multi-touch screen, so we can't zoom out with our
 fingers like iPhone users. Zooming out, though, is something we really
 should be able to do. So just hold a hardware button and bring the phone
 closer to your face!

 The site/image should be shrunk in such a way that you'll think it is
 stationary behind the phone, and the phone screen is a window through
 which you can view this image/site! When you've spotted something you want
 to focus on, somewhere else on the page, don't scroll, just keep holding
 the button bringing the phone/window down to that place. If you stop
 holding the button, the image can either stay where it is, or go to it's
 original zoom-level.

 Just imagine, if you think of the screen as a window, what incredibly fun
 games you could develop for the phone!

I think a better idea would be to think of the screen as a mirror that you are 
using to view a much larger page behind you. That way you can intuitively 
scroll both vertically and horizontally a large page or map by tilting the 
screen, and without using the touchscreen. (Which can be reserved for other 

A lot of UI ideas here are coppied from other touch screen devices. That's 
fine where appropriate, but the Neo 1973 is the only phone with built in 
accelerometers, and I think we should make use of them where we can. We 
should not just copy the iPhone or whatever, that only uses it's 
accelerometer as a tilt sensor to make the display image the right way up.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-25 Thread David Pottage
On Tue, September 25, 2007 3:14 pm, Dani Anon wrote:

 It's either one of the following:

 1) Application asks to draw a line and waits. X sees that request and
 uses a driver to draw the line, then sends confirmation. Now the
 application waits and when the confirmation is received it's ready
 for the next operation.

 2) Application uses a driver to print the line.

I think you are misrepresenting the difference. I would write that as:

1. Application asks X to draw a line, then gets on with other stuff, or
makes other calls while it waits. X calls the device driver which talks
to the hardware GPU (using around 20 bytes of API call) which uses
accelerated hardware to draw the line in the screen buffer. A few
microseconds later X informs the application that the line has been

2. Application (via compiled in or dynamically linked libraries) talks
directly to the memory mapped frame buffer. It does it's own geometry,
area fill and transparency calculations, (wasting the perfectly good
GPU that the hardware has) then directly updates several thousand
memory locations to make the line appear on the screen. (flushing the
CPU's cache in the process) While it is doing that it cannot do any
other useful work.

 Which one would you choose for performance? Apparently most of the
 phones are using the second. The mind boggles...

Interesting point. The advantage of the first (via X) is that it uses a
standard API, and if the GPU device drivers are well written then most
of the hard work can be offloaded, making screen updates very fast,
even if the screen is very big (=lots of memory buffer to move around).

The advantage of the second (direct frame buffer) is that it is much
quicker to implement on new hardware, and uses slightly less memory.

The way I see it, using a direct frame buffer system such as Qtopia is
sensible in an early version before the GPU device drivers are working,
but after that there is little benefit.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: [-SPAM-] Re: application idea

2007-09-19 Thread David Pottage

On Wed, September 19, 2007 12:00 pm, Ian Stirling wrote:
 ian douglas wrote:
 Tilman Baumann wrote:

 The biggest challenge would be a mapping from gps coordinates to
 regions/postcodes or such.
 If you have this information, you could do all sorts of crazy stuff.
 But i doubt these data would be very easy to get.

 I've seen it at another contract I worked a year ago, but not sure if
 the GPS-to-US-zip-code data was freely available or a paid service. The
 database I used for my job there had the entire US postal code regions
 mapped out based on latitude/longitude so the data IS out there. Just a
 matter of seeing if it's free to download from somewhere. The database
 was gigantic though, I'm not sure it's something you'd want to store on
 the device itself.

 Going to the 5 digit zips is easy - it's well under a meg.
 5 digit + 4 is a whole different matter.

But is the data freely available, or is it constrained by copyright or the

In the UK, postcode (zipcode) data is restricted by copyright, and the
post office makes money selling licenses to users. Even if we could get
the data, we could not freely distribute it.

In the UK there is a project [1] to build a post code database using user
contributed information. Basicaly users are asked to type in the postocode
and location of their homes, busneses, and any other site they can find.
We many have to use similar database for other countries.


David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe

2007-08-22 Thread David Pottage
Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote:
 It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko
 devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !!

 I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are
 available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices
 from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe.
I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as
Switzerland is outside the European Union.

I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as
that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying
any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the
prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to
ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high).

Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer
ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still
have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of
paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the
Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value.
 Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in
 Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in
I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of
receiving payments that would be good.


David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: power management

2007-07-27 Thread David Pottage
On Friday 27 July 2007, Nelson Castillo wrote:
 On 7/27/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On an 850mAh nokia battery... maybe 3 hours mostly idle (not sure, I
  came back to find it dead.)  Haven't timed it with the 1200mAh real
  battery, but basically, power management isn't really there yet.

 Is it hard to do it? Would using NO_HZ in the kernel help?

If you mean a tickless kernel, then probably if it where available. Last I 
heard it was only available for 32bit x86, not even x86_64 is supported.

In any case, I suspect the power saving stuff is more fundamental than that. 
From reading the Wiki, the Neo 1973 has a low power mode in which it goes to 
sleep, and turns of the screen, untill it receves and interupt from a device 
such as the GSM module or the touchscreen. The unfinished power management 
will be the necessary code to make the phone go to sleep after a minute or so 
of inactivity.

A tickless kernel might save a few more percent on top of that, but it is 
sleep mode you need to get from 3 hours battery life to 5 days.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: another linux platform platform

2007-07-26 Thread David Pottage

On Thu, July 26, 2007 4:23 pm, Tim Newsom wrote:
 I just noticed this:

 They claim to have many of the features we have talked about on the
 however, I am wondering about the pending patent related to placing
 security in the bootloader for signature checking of a boot image.  Does
 anyone know if this is available GPL or if they have somehow managed to
 around all of that?

I doubt they can get a patent on on bootloader signature checking. Nokia
have had that feature on their phones for a few years now. That is why
they are so hard to unlock compared with other brands.

Also, GPL3 forbids that kind of thing unless you give the end user a way
to sign their own boot images. In a year or two it will be quite hard to
build a Linux phone that does not include any GPL3 software, so this will
not be useful in preventing unauthorized firmware. (Though it will still
be helpful for virus protection and the like).

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-21 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 21 July 2007, Valerio Bruno wrote:
 i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

 i think is good:

 - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
 - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
 - it can have email notification for reply
 - could be a central point for developers too!
 - other motivations said by other people..

 So i'm going to create a forum.
Three cheers for that man.

I definitely think a forum is a good idea. I have been a list subscriber for 
the past 6 months or so, and just recently the traffic has got rather high. I 
shudder to think what it would be like in November with thousands of newbies 
out there asking questions.

I don't think we should close the list or the Wiki, just divert some of the 
newbee questions, and discussons of soft issues like advertising away from 
the list. Forums are also good because you can easily add links  embedded 

Rather than having lots of stickys in each sub forum, I think it would be 
better to move HOW-TOs, FAQs etc to the Wiki, and then just have one sticky 
with links to them.

 Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
 and some graphics suggestions.

I don't mind being a moderator. I won't have time to moderate all the time 

 Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

Personally I am familiar with phpBB, but not Invision, so that would be my 

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Store info - shipping costs to Germany

2007-07-10 Thread David Pottage

On Mon, July 9, 2007 11:37 am, Al Johnson wrote:
 On Monday 09 July 2007 10:39, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
 FYI, shipping to Germany:

  Neo BaseNeo Advance
  1x  2x  3x 4x1x   2x
 WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED $71.85  $83.14  $94.15 $114.52  $104.99  $134.16
 SAVER   $75.19  $88.25 $100.73 $118.89  $112.08  $139.04
 WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS   $77.46  $90.23 $103.00 $121.73  $114.35  $142.16
 WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS_PLUS $122.86 $135.63 $148.40 $167.13  $159.75  $187.56

 Looks like shipping from within the EU (as promised) didn't happen yet.
 Will it be in place by October?

 Similar prices for shipping to UK. I was going to get the Advance now and
 the GTA02 in October, but with these shipping prices and maybe import
 duties on top I'll have to rethink.

Agreed, those shipping prices are a tad high. I think we should try to
organise some order sharing via the Wiki, Perhaps someone with enough edit
rights could create a new page sorted by country, and then people could
add their name  city. It should then be fairly easy to see if there are
any other Open Moko buyers nearby who you could share an order with.

It would also create an opportunity to meet fellow hackers.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: Linux

2007-07-08 Thread David Pottage
On Saturday 07 July 2007, Vicente Alcañiz Buceta wrote:

 I just want to have a Linux mobile phone but maybe is not going to be
 release in Japan???

As Jason Elwell says, the Linux mobile phone is released today, so you can buy 
at the unsubsidised price. Unfortunately you won't be able to use it in Japan 
(or Korea) as it is GSM only.

I guess if you are realy keen, you could buy one as a Linux PDA, or to develop 
software, but otherwise, you will have to wait and hope that FIC produce a 3G 
model with W-CDMA support some time next year, that you will be able to use 
on the Softbank (formerly Vodaphone) network.

David Pottage

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)

2007-07-03 Thread David Pottage

On Tue, July 3, 2007 2:33 pm, Niels L. Ellegaard wrote:

 On a related note I think that Slashdot once had a story about a
 (bluetooth based??) Japanese dating gadget that worked in a similar
 fashion. They had to buy the gadget, encode their preferences, and
 then wait for the unexpected buzz of finding a perfect match. They
 must have used some kind of encoding to prevent abuse, but I am not
 sure how it worked.

Nokia have software to do that with their S60 smartphones. I don't think
it has a large enough user base to be useful. (even though there are ~100
million compatible phones out there).

 On an even less related note it could be fun to keep a log-file of the
 wifi phones that stay in your vicinity for more than an hour (ignoring
 public transport). Then your phone can tell you whether or not you
 have met a given person before. Perhaps you can use data from the log
 file to query friends for further information or a vcard. This idea
 might require a lot of storage and a way to filter out routers, but it
 could lead to some fun.

I think if you are going to do that, you would be better off doing it with
Bluetooth, as there are many more BT devices out there, and most people
leave BT switched on, as it does not drain the battery much.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list

Re: GPS bluetooth receiver

2007-07-02 Thread David Pottage
 Can I use the GTA01B_v4 as a bluetooth gps receiver? And will it be easy
 to do.

 I was going to wait for the GTA02 in October, but in the meantime I'm
 about to buy a gps bluetooth receiver to use with maemo-mapper on my N770.

 If I can use the GTA01_v4 as a gps receiver instead, I'd rather buy it and
 then get the GTA02 as well.

I would expect bluetooth GPS is in the roadmap, and it will be very easy
to implement.

If you connect a normal GPS to the serial port of your computer (9600
baud, 8N1 usually), and view the output you will see a series of messages
in NEMA format. Once a second the GPS reports your current location. It
can optionally report other parameters such as how good the reception is
and your current speed  heading.

A bluetooth GPS just creates a BT serial connection, and sends the same
data over that. Once the bluetooth and GPS drivers are working, it should
be very easy to write the necessary demon, it might even be possible with
a few pipes in shell.

David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

OpenMoko community mailing list