Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On 10/09/2013 08:23 PM, Bob Ham wrote: And the next day, when you've found an old definition that accords with your view, suddenly that one definition would have obviated any discussion. The meaning of the words are defined by the communities that use it and different communities can have different understandings. And license definitions don't mean much until people in general have accepted it. You are merely trying to impose your interpretation on other people. For me, the meaning of open hardware was defined by the introduction of the IBM PC (which did not include open source schematics). This is the meaning I know about and I believe it is still the reference most people have. It is laudable to have more hardware open and it would be nice if goldelico would release the schematics in source. But I don't see them has having such obligation neither I see any inconsistence in their actions or words. Goldelico has certainly contributed to the cause of open hardware and you are merely trying to put shame on them by rhetorical manipulation to force them to do something they obviously don't have to. It is your actions I don't find laudable. ANd causing a lot of wasted energy. Fernando Martins ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On 10/05/2013 01:34 PM, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 07:50 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Neither the Openmoko, OpenPandora, Ubuntu Edge, GTA04 are open hardware - and never were intended to be. That isn't what your OpenPhoenux page says: Open Hardware Devices. Letux 2804 / GTA04 Smartphone http://www.openphoenux.org/ You're also contradicting your own previous statements: I see the role of GDC [Golden Delicious Computers] to provide future open hardware but remain software agnostic http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-May/066835.html You're nitpicking about different meanings of open and free. This discussion is no better than arguments about the freedom of GPL versus BSD. It leads nowhere. +1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On 10/05/2013 02:14 PM, Bob Ham wrote: On Sat, 2013-10-05 at 14:07 +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: I can agree that the usage of free hardware term may be a bit confusing. Describing the GTA04 as Open Hardware on openphoenux.org is, I believe, not just confusing but dishonest. When the PC was released by IBM it was considered open hardware. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenPhoneux video
On 03/09/2012 05:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I have made and posted a new video showing some experiments to make a full OpenPhoenux from a SlyParts 3D printed case, a GTA04 board and QtMoko v40. Enjoy and spread the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybT9kdhmurM Wonderful! It feels like entering a new era. BTW, what about calling it simply Phonux? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/03/2012 10:44 PM, arne anka wrote: (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) myself and others in this list have made the same offer... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/03/2012 11:09 AM, Lionel Broche wrote: well, I think you just have to look at the capabilities of IMAP5 to see that the next generations of phone/tablet will have 3D support, both for display and webcam (I think IMAP5 supports 2 webcam ports). So IMHO the big manufacturers are now focusing on including 3D instead of designing new concepts. About the choice of keyboard, from what I read on this thread I think that one of the main issue is the feedback. Touch keyboard give you a feedback via the feeling of the fingertips, so you don't need to focus your attention to it. Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...) I guess all improvements on the soft keyboard are nice but keeping the screen free with a solidly attached keyboard like the N900 is incomparably much better. Put yourself in a queue for 3 hours while using email and browser under stress. Would the GTA04 fit in the case of a N900 and would it be unrealistic to buy the case from Nokia? Anyway, although the keyboard is an interesting discussion, I still think the main hurdle to increase de community and its involvement is the current price and the lack of a complete phone solution. Also, as pointed out by others, missing an SMS, as it happened to me with qtmoko (3.4?) is a major show-stopper. I think the current approach of marketing the hardware flexibility is a good one, albeit with a smalle market. I guess it could actually be more useful for industry than individuals, but the concept of designing a mobile to fit the specific needs of a company might be too unheard off, needing a bigger/smarter marketing effort. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – Results
On 01/16/2012 09:31 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: 3. at the current price of the GTA04 group tour (450-500 EUR range) we can expect approx. 30% buyers. This would still mean 6000 of the originally sold GTA02 devices. Hm. We are still far away from this figure with subscriptions. What are the reasons? For reasons already pointed out by others, the real market might be the subscribers of this same list. Then price becomes the limitation. As others, I'm also willing to contribute with a donation (100€) or high risk small investment, but not the current price. 4. a final observation is that I have to conclude that some of us have no realistic perception of the market prices. More than 40% would not want to pay more than 200-250 EUR for a complete GTA04 (even with case etc.). This makes me really puzzled as the GTA02 was never sold cheaper than 199 EUR. Isn't getting UMTS, fast 3D graphics any value to the majority of the Openmoko community? High end phones cost around 500€ and the OpenMoko experience has taught us that open comes by with compromising the specs. I'm not sure the GTA04 has been shown (marketed) as spec competitive with high end phones of 500€. The cheapest UMTS Android 2.2 device I can currently get in Germany is at 129 EUR (most likely from some overstock clearance). Has a 320x240 display, no sensors, no free and open software. No hardware description, no schematics. Appears to be crap and much less featured than the GTA04. But the poll result indicates this is the way we should go. Really? I wnder how the community thinks it can be done at such low prices? I think the situation has changed a lot since the initial introduction of the OpenMoko, in particular with the introduction of Android. At this pace, how much will it take for an Android phone manufacturer to release a fully open phone? And more importantly, right now what are the advantages of openness of the GTA04? Why exactly is it more free? What is its competitive advantage(s)? Again, I have not seen this in a big billboard, and I admit I have not done the research myself. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On 12/12/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Yes, I think that makes sense, but the cost of the moulds seems to be a major roadblock in the road of reasonably priced devices when done in small numbers. I was asking because my brother lives in a region in Portugal known for manufacturers of moulds, China being one of typical destinations. I asked him what he knew about this business and the main issue seems indeed to be very high cost of the moulds whereas the plastic products cost merely cents. Unfortunately, as mentioned by Patryck in the other reply, moulds also need to be rectified after some time, and even this cost can be too high. And, it seems that to make a single mould, it can in fact require more than one iteration. I was a bit surprised about this last one as I thought NPC tools could make the mould exactly according to spec but he did not know what were the issues. My brother did not know specific costs but he heard on past informal conversations of costs on the orders of many thousands of Euros. Did you get to any figures yourself? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
about the cases
Hi, Out of curiosity would it be possible to recover the original moulds used to produce the cases? Anybody knows what happened to them? Regards Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sharing TSM30 source
On 11/23/2011 10:57 PM, Ben Thompson wrote: I don't speak Spanish so I am not sure if this page is actually a phone for sale :- http://anuncios.ebay.es/compraventa/telefono-movil-vitelcom-tsm30/9052718 For sale for 9€, posted on 9th, June with battery and charger new, works perfectly ideal for collectors I reply only to emails Here is another, but again I am not sure exactly what this site is :- http://www.segundamano.es/madrid/movil-vitelcom-tsm30cargador/a27772726/ It could be a really old advert but I don't know. Are there any Spanish people on this list who could comment? for sale for 15€, posted on 2nd, October phone ... with original charger. camera 3.1 mm Note that I'm not Spanish and I don't use those web sites so I can't tell if people there are reliable. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[qtmoko] Access Internet through Vodafone provider in NL
Hi, simple question :) How can I configure QTMoko to access Internet through my Vodafone provider in NL? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Shr-User] [e-users] Someone is trying to patent Quickwriting
Joachim Ott wrote: On 24 November 2010 11:15, Patryk Benderz patryk.bend...@esp.pl wrote: Dnia 2010-11-24, śro o godzinie 09:56 +0100, Thibaut Girka pisze: Le mercredi 24 novembre 2010 à 09:18 +0100, Patryk Benderz a écrit : Well, I do for example. Looking at the title of patent, it seems that 8pen is French based company. Following google hits I fount French patent office: http://www.inpi.fr/ But here after struggling for a while looking for English version, I decided to ask If any of you guys know French language and could help to find this patent (1058945 ) in patent office? I'm French, and after a quick search, I couldn't find this patent. Furthermore, I doubt INPI would accept this, it's about industrial patents, we don't have things like software patents. I made another attempt to look for this patent at http://www.epo.org/ and http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/index.jsp but failed here also. Any ideas where to find this patent? There is one more strangeness, looking at their schematic drawings, it looks like this patent application is not finished yet. Maybe they have not applied it yet? 1058945 is, as they stated on their page, an application number, not yet a patent number. nb: when I was searching for patent claim Dispositif de saisie de signes comprenant une zone de base, I found another company (swypeinc.com) that has patented an input method. ___ Patent applications are usually only made public 18 months after date of filing, therefore you can't find it on the online databases. Since the, apparently international, application is in French, most likely it will be searched at the European Patent Office. Some useful links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_application http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_participation_in_patent_examination In any case, someone posted in another mail that Quickwriting already has a patent pending. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko - Please Wait...
Robin Paulson wrote: On 12 July 2010 19:07, Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: After boot, I don't get the request for the pin code. The screen displays a No network message and no response to screen touches. I press the power button to get the shutdown menu. I cancel it and then the pin code request screen appears. However, I am not able to type anything and all I see is a Please Wait... message. If I boot the FR with usb cable connected, I get the chance to enter the pin code. Can I do something to fix this issue? i find turning off, taking out the sim and battery for 20 minutes or so fixes it I might have found a simpler workaround, pressing the aux button asap, as soon as the GUI comes up. Maybe it's sufficient to press it before the no network message appears. After getting the Task Manager, exit it and then you should get a usable pin code screen. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
qtmoko - Please Wait...
Hi, I just upgraded to v24 and I keep having the same problem as before. After boot, I don't get the request for the pin code. The screen displays a No network message and no response to screen touches. I press the power button to get the shutdown menu. I cancel it and then the pin code request screen appears. However, I am not able to type anything and all I see is a Please Wait... message. If I boot the FR with usb cable connected, I get the chance to enter the pin code. Can I do something to fix this issue? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SHR-U 3rd April - no phone
Hi, After flashing the image from 03 April, the latest I believe, I don't have a phone. Going to settings/phone stalls at Loading 5 modules. Can this be solved or should I revert to an earlier image? which one? Thanks, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr unstable lite missing opkg
Hi, I just installed latest unstable from August, 8th, but opkg isn't included. I looked in /bin, /usr/bin. How can I fix this?? Could someone send me the binary? TIA, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr unstable lite missing opkg
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On 8/15/09, Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: Hi, I just installed latest unstable from August, 8th, but opkg isn't included. I looked in /bin, /usr/bin. How can I fix this?? Could someone send me the binary? TIA, Fernando opkg-cl update; opkg-cl upgrade Thanks I was not following the list and had relied in vain on google. I saw later a post about opkg being a link to opkg-cl. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use Google Map on tangoGPS
Joseph Reeves wrote: I've found that it's very enjoyable to travel somewhere not on OSM and add it later ;-) SHR + TangoGPS seems stable enough, and kind enough on the battery, to let me walk around for a whole day (or rather, walk as much as I'd want to in a day) and log everywhere I go. How about quality of data, I mean, for instance if you have to backtrack in a road, will you have to delete the log and restart all over? How about connecting two pieces of log? What about changing direction 90º; if walking (or even biking or car), in reality you are not doing 90º, will be doing a diagonal or a curve, but one wants to provide to OSM a 90º road connection. Essentially I'm trying to understand how burdensome (or not) it can become for a simple sightseeing to also do tracking. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
David Garabana Barro wrote: The same is happening to me, with the SHR testing April,22nd image. It happened also with a 16th April image updated to latest level. I though something broke on the update, and I reflashed with a clean image, but it didn't solved the problems. On my case, it failed only the two first boots after flashing. From then on, it has been working well. In my case, I switch off the phone in the evening and on in the morning. -The ONLY way I found to back to normality is to boot *ANY OTHER* distribution (I have some more on the SIM card) and then reboot in SHR. Then it starts to work again. It sounds strange, but it works to me. This suggests some hardware initialization bug (from FSO/SHR). Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
Laura Vance wrote: I'm using SHR-testing from April 23rd. In the Settings app, go to the Phone section, and there is a GSM on/off slider at the top. Ah!! It's a slider! I couldn't understand what I was looking at. I was looking for a simple check box or sticky button! Then recently I started thinking a little more about the problem, and I can always get SOS Only mode, so I started thinking maybe it's that the SIM isn't registering before the GSM daemon times out. I never tried to restart the GSM antenna before this version of SHR, so I don't know if previous versions have the same slider. It might be interesting to see if you get the same results as David Garabano Barro, i.e., booting from other distribution and then rebooting in SHR. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
Laura Vance wrote: If it truly can't seem to connect, I learned today that I can switch the GSM radio off and back on to have it re-initialize and acquire signal properly. How do you switch it on/off manually? I don't think I have a contact problem. I only got the ophonekit message on a second boot after flashing FR and in the last two days it is working as usual. Regarding the contacts problem, if you open fr frequently maybe there is a chance for dirt to compromise the contacts. Alternatively, maybe with frequent removal of battery/SIM, the holding system might get loose? Maybe put a piece of paper in the right place to increase pressure? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
Robin Paulson wrote: yeah, i'm getting exactly this error also. i later found out my sim had been borked by the messages app in 2008.12, but trying it with a friend's sim (which worked fine in his motorola and qte phone) i had the same response the gsm switch keeps going back to off also, even with a working sim Well, on switch on this morning, I got the pincode request. Sadly there has not been improvement on this area, i.e., the request for the pincode does not come right away as in typical mobiles. This is one one the few little but constant annoyances that does not allow FR/SHR to look polished. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
I've just flashed shr testing 22nd April and I don't get the usual pin code request. Also, the icons Contacts and Mofi on the desktop are just two blank sheets. Under settings, the GSM antena is set off but I can't change it to on. The Modem information does nothing (not yet implemented?). So, how can I start GSM, manually and on startup? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr-testing- how to switch on gsm?
ivvmm wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: I've just flashed shr testing 22nd April and I don't get the usual pin code request. Also, the icons Contacts and Mofi on the desktop are just two blank sheets. Something goes wrong. It should have started automatically. What image did you flash exactly? I'm not sure what else can I tell you, from http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin dated 22-04-2009 shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 dated 22-04-2009 The first time shr booted, it asked for some settings. There was a part on quick starting some apps, which I dismissed and now I wonder if I overlooked GMS startup. Later on, when I looked at the phone again, there was a dialog box stating that ophonekit was not started with an option to start, which I did, but nothing happened (no pin code request). I didn't get any error during flashing, but I don't know if dfu-util does indeed verify the image. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sunlight readable LCD
William Kenworthy wrote: For bike use, someything like this may be better: http://wdk.dyndns.org/freerunner/p1000129.jpg looks promising! Exactly which material is that made of? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdotted
Steve Mosher wrote: Like I said, if it bleeds, it leeds. When you have a major announcement such as seans you have two options: 1. Try to control the press response beforehand. Brief the press beforehand, do a press release, release an official statement on the same day as the event. A controlled blast. 2. Drop that bombshell, some of the press will get it wrong, and then use that opportunity. I gave IT support for many years to a PR department for a big local government and I learned it's hard anyway to control what the press publishes - sensational always sells and when reporters listen, a) they already have a bias towards sensational, b) they know they have to read between the lines anyway and guess the dirty hidden secret. It's amazing how often they guess the truth when being told a lie and how often they get it wrong when being told the truth. Since most times they are told the truth, they get it wrong too often. So, I don't believe there is a guarantee that your option 1 would work better anyway. Bad publicity is always good publicity, if you (can) act on it properly. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdotted
Steve Mosher wrote: And you are right the community can help: 1. get code upstream. That decreases our cost to maintain. 2. Stay involved or get involved, either by coding, testing, or spreading the word. you get the idea. My biggest itch was the frustration of getting a phone which, at that time, was not yet, say, a smooth phone, and still today has some rough edges, depending on distribution of course. I think this common experience is now acknowledged as what is hurting more the FR (leading to the slashdot post, but I'm also sure it can succeed and your recent posts are very convincing to me). Although I'm a programmer (C, Python), right now I can only spare a few hours a week which makes it difficult for me to be effective. Any suggestion how to best put my small resources at use? How much investment would it be needed to work on phone specific functions? I know this is the bazaar, but I miss a bit the cathedral to be more focused and effective. A todo list, who's doing what, change logs,... What's the status of FSO?? Maybe I have to explore better but there is a lot of info how there, spread all over, and too often not up to date. Working on documentation is also fine for me, but what is the most needed to choose from? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
Martino wrote: And what you think about this: http://mandarancio.deviantart.com/art/Around-mobile-interface-2-118407618 Gorgeous, although the notification box doesn't look so good as in previous mockups. Maybe it works better if it comes from the bottom and uses all the width. What would you put in Home, the common phone apps? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdotted
Steve Mosher wrote: Thanks Anthony. For the sake of everyone who hasnt read my posts on this or seen the video of seans speech. Let me say that your position is the one we settled on. spend our resources on the FR and then fund a modest project: project B. Put the GTA03 on hold and find a way to involve the community more in its development. I'm not a marketing guy, but I am somewhat surprised not to see more references about this aspect. There is talk about products and about methods. All that discussion on hardware development made it clear that OM needs to increase market or gain share to achieve economies of scale. I can understand that market aspects might not come to the front, but maybe the community could also help here. From another post I understand that you are also going to niche markets that need custom/open phones, which looks like a sensible approach. But could the GTA02 be made interesting to the general public to be sold together with a telecom subscription? if not, is there a GTA02+ that could do it? I have the impression that people are already using the phones in many different ways. Some do it in obvious ways for them which might not be so obvious to the majority. How about collecting these use cases and see how you can grow the current specific FR market from here, or gain market share from the general phone market. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdotted
David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever it succeed or not. 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez da...@tuxbrain.com: Yes very sad wrong titular No More OpenMoko Phone and very discorageus comentaries :( Listen, it's just one of those slashdot posts based on half-truths. Lamenting it does not help. Just address the truths in there and take the best out of it. Even bad publicity can be good. Make it play in your favor. This slashdot article could be a good opportunity to: 1) identify plain truths, plain falsities, half-truths/lies. Distinguish between technical (FR) and organisational issues (OM/community). This can be done by the community using a wiki page. 2) Acknowledge the negative organisational facts (I guess already done by OM). Fix it by: a) providing reassurance by building on the achievements and positive facts; b) providing an action plan dealing with organisational AND marketing aspects; c) ask the community for feedback on the plan (being done?) and even ask for help with organisational and market aspects (the open project doesn't have to stop at the software aspects). 3) Provide a plan to address the technical aspects involving the community (being done?). Typically everyone wants to work on their own itches, but maybe there is room for a bit more coordination, e.g. by using cofundos to focus on specific areas that could help OM deliver the promises of an open and implicitly working phone. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying a Freerunner
Young wrote: 2. with the recent announcements, I am unsure whether I want to purchase one. As suggested other times, maybe you could also look for someone in your area that could show you the phone and share experience with you. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
Davide Scaini wrote: [writing from fr now] Could you just summarise which network/email tools/setup you are using to achieve this? Thanks, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
Martino wrote: If the problem is to have the prefered or the most used apps easy accessible the solution could be put this apps before the categoty division.. Yes, that's what I was suggesting before: but using only one row for that. In general, I would use only one row to display the app icons, before or within categories, and allow the icon row to scroll horizontally (needs left/right arrow hints). Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: For illume based distros you have shortdesk to organize the icons, it works pretty well and is highly costumizable http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/sortdesk/ or http://www.opkg.org/package_95.html old screen shot of shortdesk in action thanks to costumizer kustomizer, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Kustomizer-home.png The main advantage on this layout for me is to display the icons for the most used apps (or favorites). Unfortunately, folder icons for app organisation is sooo computer biased and boring :-) Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: trouble update with tangoGPS, any idea?
Daniel.Li wrote: * Failed to download http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-milestone5/feeds//armv4/Packages.gz, error 404 quoting a message from Al Johnson: There is no package missing as there is no armv4 entry in the repository. There is an armv4 config in /etc/opkg/ which shouldn't be there, and has probably been removed in recent images, and it is that that causes the error. You can safely ignore it, or just delete the offending entry. Note that armv4t is required - one character makes all the difference! This was applicable to the SHR distribution, maybe others, but I don't have the clear picture of what is common or not between distros. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: trouble update with tangoGPS, any idea?
Daniel.Li wrote: Collected errors: * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for tangogps: * gtk+-fastscaling (= 2.10.14) * please check this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2177634 Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
Martino wrote: I think for optimize the low space in the screen that can be usefull have the apps in sub category expandible and reducible (sorry for my bad english.. :( ) like this muck up http://mandarancio.deviantart.com/art/Around-mobile-interface-117305756 What do yuo think? I like a lot the visuals but I don't see a point in the expand/shrink interface. Why would I want to have more than one category open? In addition, I can see a lot of scrolling/clicking coming out of this interface, to navigate categories/apps. On the other hand, the tabbed interface you have on the top right mock-up looks great to me. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
Martino wrote: Thanks to evry body.. @Fernando: For example can you use frequently some apps from 2 different category and take open the 2 category (but I know the problem can be solve using a favorite category..).. It' only an idea.. :D A favorites is nice but I would like to have a sliding toolbar (like in illume config) where the common apps are shown as icons. Then the tabbed interface would show the full collection and allow me to drag and drop icons from there into the toolbar. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Organize the desktop in sub category..
Martino wrote: @Fernando: Mmm.. I undersatnd.. Yes sure but I thinked at the sub category vison on the main scree for more coerence at the illume.. In second Illume has just a similar solution with the large slider ... I don't know If you understand but my english is very bad.. I'm afraid I don't follow you. Maybe you could post in Italian (I guess it's your language) and post also an automatic English translation (e.g. using translate.google.nl). Some other remarks, merely my very subjective opinion: - in the first picture, I don't like so much the layout of the top bar. The bar doesn't look so elegant, as the rest of the design, because: -- it looks un-organised with wasted space. I suppose the two icons on top left represent running applications. I would rather have mini-icos representing running applications, fit next to the already existing min-icons, without a need to expand de top bar. -- IMHO, the notification/info mini icons should also never move (they went down with the expansion). They should provide a sense of stability/anchor to the interface. BTW, what would your interface do when a category has more icons than can be fitted in one line? Would it work like a horizontal scrollbar or would the area expand vertically to fit all icons, or... I hope I'm not making you loose motivation with my challenges. I really like the visuals and it looks a clean, elegant and intuitive interface. I would love to have something along those lines in my FR. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shameless plug
Steve Mosher wrote: http://esc-sv09.techinsightsevents.com/freerunner_giveaway FYI, under Thunderbird, your email gets hidden under the thread SHR Fennec web browser recipe, which I guess you replied to to get the community mailing list address. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- avoid suspend and dim screen
W.Kenworthy wrote: Ah! What a relief!! :-) so, mdbus is what I was looking for! Many thanks for the script. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr- avoid suspend and dim screen
Hi, I would like to avoid suspend while using GPS (tangoGPS) but at the same time allow the screen t switch off. I found on the wiki a page about ompower (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ompower) but the first command, to get a list of the available resources dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.openmoko.Power / org.openmoko.Power.Core.ListResources returns an error: Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: the name org.openmoko.Power was not provide by any .service files I suppose to avoid suspension and switch off the screen are quite common needs. How are people doing it? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- avoid suspend and dim screen
Ah! I forgot to tell: I'm using shr unstable from January and the settings UI doesn't work, , so I was looking for a command line instruction to suspend on/off. Unfortunately, suspend off is not sufficient since the battey gets drained too fast, in a couple hours while using GPS. I don't know how much power the GPS and CPU is being used, but I'm sure switching off the screen would help. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- avoid suspend and dim screen
The Digital Pioneer wrote: Can you not opkg update opkg upgrade? Actually I don't know what exactly that would lead to: wold I get SHR testing or the current SHR unstable? OTH, my current setup works (mostly) well and recently there were a bunch of people reporting problems with getting a GPS fix, and I don't want to go through that process again myself. I would expect to exist some command line instructions (like dbus-send) to control suspend and screen on/off. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- avoid suspend and dim screen
The Digital Pioneer wrote: That will just get you latest unstable. I do it frequently, and it all works about as well as can be expected, including GPS. Ok, great! Thanks, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thinking deeply about cofundos.org
David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: Dear colleges users , There are only about 25 distributors but we are are about thousands users, our support to those initiative we like is vital for them and now we can have the opportunity to request features with more than complains :) even an euro to demonstrate interest about a project or feature requested will help to make it real quicker than waiting for it and you will have the satisfaction to being part of the solution instead of only an spectator. Well... enough words for one post... I will be glad to receive your comments As a user I am happy to donate to a project (or feature) I'm interested to have. As a matter of fact, I'm convinced donations to Free Software, through Foundations, could be one of the best approaches to support FS development, if governments had laws allowing donations to be somehow deductible to taxes. But I have yet to see the FSF, FSFE, ONU, etc, to lobby for this concept. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- install zhone
Al Johnson wrote: There is no package missing as there is no armv4 entry in the repository. There is an armv4 config in /etc/opkg/ which shouldn't be there, and has probably been removed in recent images, and it is that that causes the error. You can safely ignore it, or just delete the offending entry. Note that armv4t is required - one character makes all the difference! Thanks, the update is complete but zhone is not in the list. Am I correct in assuming that zhone is not available for shr? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Daniel Willmann wrote: On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:35:37 +0100 Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: BTW, the date was automatically set, somehow, some days later. Is this done when there is a phone call? (I have few phone calls). Timezone will be set according to the nationality of the GSM network you're associated to. Since this is annoying for a couple of people we'll probably make this optional/prompt for new timezone. Time will be updated either through NTP if your FR has a connection to the Internet or through GPS if you wait long enough. I'm a bit confused with this: I would assume that if timezone is changed, time/date would be automatically updated. So, why then bother to update time based on NTP or GPS? Also, it would be nice to know, grossly, how much is long enough, but I suppose it's not yet done or decided... When I'm traveling for short periods, usually I don't bother to change times to local, unless I have tight schedules to follow and prefer not to risk missing a mental time translation. For longer periods, usually I do. I think it would be nice to go to a date/time setting panel having (also) a button to just change the timezone. Of course this requires the FR to know at all times that the set timezone is not the local one. Also, a very small but annoying issue: busybox date command displays a very brief help string that does not tell which is the input format to set date/time. If one is on the road, without a GUI to set date/time, and no man page, the format is difficult to guess (date -s MMDDhhmm.ss). I suggest to show this format on the help string of date (I know technically it is a trivial change, but no idea of what this involves regarding patch bureaucracy). Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Daniel, many thanks for your replies, please see below. Daniel Willmann wrote: Hello, On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:19:05 +0100 Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: there is a backup battery, but in my experience it only takes a couple hours without battery until the time is lost again. I never leave the battery out, I only take it out to reboot after a crash. But now I wonder: usually I keep the phone switched off during the night, and since I use it rarely, sometimes I forget it switched off at home. Is it the case that, when FR is switched off, the main battery does not feed the backup battery? (yeah it sounds weird, the main battery would become the backup of the backup battery). So you're going in with a fix and when you come out you wont get a fix any more? How long are you staying in the building? 1 hour is sufficient to become unable to get the fix back. Please check with the GPS tabs in zhone How many SVs have ephemeris before and after you are inside the building. Also check after you've left the building if you are seeing any signals from SVs and if the chip actually thinks there are SVs in the sky. I don't have zhone installed but from using tangoGPS I remember it stated always 0 SV on the sky (e.g. 8/0). I don't think in tangoGPS I can see how many have ephemeris data (I though all of them had it). I'll install zhone and do the checks. regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr- install zhone
Hi, I wanted to install zhone on SHR (unstable from January 16th or so) to check GPS data, but when I tried opkg install zhone all I got was An error ocurred, return value: -50512. which I think means the package is not in the repository, or it uses a different name (?) Also, on the wiki page for zhone, it says how to install zhone in Ubuntu, but not in FR. What should I do to install zhone? TIA, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Daniel Willmann wrote: I'm not sure I understand completely. I can't see why one wouldn't want to set the proper time (maybe with an offset option for people notoriously being late so they can set the clock to real-time + 5min). Could you explain some more what you mean by that? Ok, this might not seem so rational, but it works for me: because I have to correct the time for several devices (wrist-watch, car, phone, etc), I just ignore all of those. In a couple of days, they'll be back to the correct time anyway :). The important point is that all my clocks are consistently wrong. If FR changes the timezone without me realising it, then I can be tricked into looking into the right time and wrongly add up one hour more on it. (it has happend that I fixed one clock and then get tricked by another - it can happen both under stress or total relaxation :-) That's why (consistency) I would prefer to have manual control of time changes on FR, but I'm starting to feel I'm the nut job here :-) Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Daniel Willmann wrote: But now I wonder: usually I keep the phone switched off during the night, and since I use it rarely, sometimes I forget it switched off at home. Is it the case that, when FR is switched off, the main battery does not feed the backup battery? (yeah it sounds weird, the main battery would become the backup of the backup battery). That should work. I'm trying to reproduce that now. Does that also happen if you keep your FR switched off overnight or for a couple of hours? After that happens is your main battery drained completely or is it at about the same level before you turned your FR off? It's not simple to give an accurate answer because I hardly need a mobile and even rarely look at the FR time. When I notice the date was reseted (which happened ~3 times in a couple of months) it's difficult to associate it with what I've done with the battery. Usually (but not always) I charge it in the evening before switching it off (it's never fully charged because of GSM being ON). I don't recall ever being surprised by a (almost) drained battery. I never let the battery discharge completely (for known reasons). I will pay attention to battery date in the mornings. If there is some other specific observation that could be useful let me know. IIRC 8/0 means the GPS thinks there are 8 SVs in the sky, but it uses 0 for the fix. Yes, you are right. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am So 15. März 2009 schrieb Fernando Martins: Daniel, many thanks for your replies, please see below. Daniel Willmann wrote: Hello, On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:19:05 +0100 Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: there is a backup battery, but in my experience it only takes a couple hours without battery until the time is lost again. I never leave the battery out, I only take it out to reboot after a crash. But now I wonder: usually I keep the phone switched off during the night, and since I use it rarely, sometimes I forget it switched off at home. Is it the case that, when FR is switched off, the main battery does not feed the backup battery? (yeah it sounds weird, the main battery would become the backup of the backup battery). From PCF50633 PMU datasheet it seems backup bat isn't used as long as main battery is supplying sufficient voltage, no matter whether phone switched off or not. So backup bat is the backup for main bat, not vice versa ;-) /j Uff, I was getting all confused with these batteries back and forth :-) I never let the main battery drain fully, so something else has caused the date to reset. BTW, I was also curious whether the backup battery recharge itself, and from the datasheet above it seems to be the case. I still remember the old times where I had to replace batteries in PC motherboards. Nowadays motherboards dye before the battery :-) Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Daniel Willmann wrote: Okay, I can totally understand that. But in that case you only want to disable the timezone changes. I assume the default is to have automatic timezone changes enabled. I would like to go to a config file (no big need for UI) and change enabled to disabled (or change 1 to 0). When I need to change the date/time, I would go to an UI, which tests if (option=0 AND FR_timezone local_timezone), a button labeled Adjust to local timezone would become enabled. You would still want your time to be accurate to the second (of the timezone it is set to), would you not? Personally yes, but I know people, as you also mentioned, who advance their watches 5 min (or even 15 min) to help them be on time. Therefore I am inclined to say that in this case an automatic change after moving to another timezone should keep an existing shift on time. Is this problematic? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:36:29 +0100 Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: I'll install zhone and do the checks. Hi Daniel, I'm having trouble to install zhone. What about using telnet to extract the GPS info you asked? (what would I have to do?) Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: odd mail, pretends to be from openmoko sales dep
arne anka wrote: Dear Sir, Thank you for the interest in Openmoko. Since I have seen you name in the group sales list at the wiki, I was wondering if you have already received what you intended to buy. If not, please let me know, so that I can help you processing your order. If you have any question, please do not hesitate to let me know. Sincerely, Ailsa Huang sales dept. Openmoko,inc. If header is correct, it looks like a salesperson or PR rookie thingy :-) Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: date and GPS related questions
Mike Montour wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: 1) I got the date reset to 1970 a few times. I was not paying attention but I guess this happens when battery is removed, i.e., there's no battery specific for the clock? There is a backup battery. Make sure that the system time is being saved to the hardware clock, e.g. hwclock --utc --systohc. I'm sure I did it, per Wiki page (no --utc) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Date. Next time I remove the battery, I'll pay more attention to the date. BTW, the date was automatically set, somehow, some days later. Is this done when there is a phone call? (I have few phone calls). Cheers, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
date and GPS related questions
Hi, 1) I got the date reset to 1970 a few times. I was not paying attention but I guess this happens when battery is removed, i.e., there's no battery specific for the clock? 2) Several posts mentioned that GPS could only get the fix if date was correct, the requirements being within 1 sec precision. However, with the date/time completely messed up, GPS is getting the fix anyway (and it's fairly fast, 1 min or so). So, what's up? I'm using SHR unstable from January. Is the GPS driver (?) being to ignore dates before FR production, or something else? 3) While using tangoGPS and I enter a building, when I come out, a fix is not gotten until I reboot FR. Is this a known issue? any quicker workaround than rebooting? 4) How can I avoid going into suspend mode? (alternatively, are Power Mng settings working in recent SHR testing?) Regards and TIA, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 Touchscreen Capacitive (was Re: OT: iPhone howto)
Helge Hafting wrote: But even non-techies may like some of the things you can do with a stylus. Such as handwriting, or drawing sketches. Capacitive screens won't give you the option. +1 for handwriting. Bonus point for usable recognition. A stylus attached/embedded in the case would be nice. Quite frankly, I just hope OM becomes successful enough to produce different models. If they believe that capacitive is the way to for the next device to grow market share, all the power to them. I should add that is not so obvious to me after this discussion. I suspect the key is more into distribution and arrangements with network companies. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Introducing CellHunter (Update 0.4.1)
Sebastian Hammerl wrote: for the most location based services this location info is good enough. think about: give me a restaurant in the near or remind me when i am near this place. you dont have to wait until you get a fix and know in a second where you are. Thanks, with current GPS fix issues in SHR unstable, this can reveal really useful, and any excuse is good to play a game :-) Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Introducing CellHunter (Update 0.4.1)
Sebastian Hammerl wrote: I created a manual for cellhunter i hope it will help. you find it under the introduction on the cellhunter homepage. Allow me to display my ignorance and ask what is this cell info useful for? (no hint the wiki page) Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR first impression : it's slow ?
Xavier Cremaschi wrote: I cannot make it working. Hardware is ok since it worked with Om2008.8, timezone/time is good, but no fix... 'telnet localhost 2947' always output same 'empty' data. Someone recently (2 weeks ago or so) posted some steps to solve this. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it and I can't look for it right now. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Need help flashing my freerunner for the first time
Adam Jimerson wrote: I just got my freerunner today and when I have been trying to flash it with OM 2008.12 now that it is charged (comparing my Home and the images on the wiki I don't even think it came with 2007 installed), according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing I should not set up a usb0 connection but dfu-util doesn't seem to be working with it. The dfu-util -l only sees it half the time and when I try to backup the Kernel with dfu-util -a kernel -R -U good-kernel.img the freerunner just times out. The host that I am using is openSUSE 11.1. Intermittent errors typically point out to hardware problems. I guess you are using a new USB cable from the OM package, so try connecting it to a different USB port / computer. Anyway I also had some unreliability issues with the USB connection, including device not found and flashes with errors. One aspect is that the order of connecting seems important: that is, connect one end of the cable, switch on OM to boot from NOR flash, connect the other end of the cable. Do not reboot with the cable linked: it has always locked with me. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR - Latest unstable] navit
Tony Berth wrote: Dear List when trying to install navit (= opkg install navit) I get following error: Collected errors: * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for navit: * gtk+-fastscaling (= 2.10.14) * Please take into account that following source: http://download.navit-project.org/navit/openmoko/svn/Packages is already in the opkg conf file icluded! Check this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-January/040527.html including the part where I overlooked that ERROR had become WARNING :-) Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [meta] Re: separate mailing lists for each GTA device?
Brock wrote: Separate lists per-device (and per-distro) has been discussed and dismissed previously. The general consensus is to push for topic-aware subjects like [GTA01] or [debian]. Those subject brackets are quite RSI unfriendly to me (I have a PT keyboard). I hope it's not a big problem if I use just gta02- Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki page - which file system in sd card?
Martin Bernreuther wrote: again (cmp. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-January/040623.html)... IMHO, it should be owner/group concept and permissions (there are even extensions for ACLs) and linking is a part of a build process (typically after compiling), so maybe support for hard/soft links is a better expression And what about - other special files like named pipe files, device files,... - file name conventions (Which are the file name restrictions in FAT?) Thanks, I'll adjust it accordingly. For me permissions was encompassing owner/group concept so I didn't see the need for extra verbosity. I'm happy to put it as you wrote. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki page - which file system in sd card?
W.Kenworthy wrote: I have to disagree here - because my own opinion is that ext2/3 are not the best for every purpose, and are demonstrably a poor choice for OSM maps on an SD card for instance. Last I heard reiserfs3 is still being maintained, and it has some real advantages for OSM maps (reiserfs doesnt have inode limits like ext2/3 does), and is much faster (against ext3). Well, I've seen often claims as yours (and never recall the opposite) and it is also my subjective perception, using regularly a system with ext2 and reiserfs in two partitions of the same hard disk. I made my choice base on space usage. I'll look for some benchmarks on performance later on. ...There is a certain amount of YMMV with file system choices depending on your usage scenarios, but personally I would really like to use reiserfs and dump ext2/3 and all the problems they cause on the FR (lost data/corrupted filesystems, slow performance, ...) that I have. I would not expect to read about ext3 corruptions?? I know it doesn't do checksums after saving blocks in the disk, but is reiserfs doing it? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki page - which file system in sd card?
arne anka wrote: There is a certain amount of YMMV with file system choices depending on your usage scenarios, but personally I would really like to use reiserfs and dump ext2/3 and all the problems they cause on the FR (lost data/corrupted filesystems, slow performance, ...) that I have. i, on the other hand, recall lots of reports of corrupted reiser filesystems. so, what does it prove? exactly to end this fruitless debate i proposed the phrase opinions are divided -- over the years i never found any objective, unbiased analysis favouring one over the other. so my understanding is, that they are pretty much equal and the only real point is, what you personally prefer. It's difficult to compare objectively both fs from the angle of reliability/corruption. On this measure I would agree that opinions are divided is a good way to compare them. However, regarding other aspects, namely, performance and space usage, from an engineering point of view I am unhappy with that assessment. It just makes a joke of the technology/profession, really. I know that fs behave differently dependent on file sizes, folder entries and operation, etc, and each one has their own corner cases of optimal/bad behavior. Still, this information can be assessed objectively, and therefore opinions are divided is quite disappointing answer to users. However, has Helge Hafting pointed out, comparisons should really be done on the FR. Therefore, I'll edit the page with opinions are divided regarding reliability and no objective comparisons yet for other criteria. Cheers, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wiki page - which file system in sd card?
Hi, Based on list feedback, I have rewritten my former proposal for a wiki page dealing with the choice of file system for sd cards. If you feel so inclined, please review the text below before I put it on the wiki. I was thinking to link it from the FAQ page, under Storage, modulus a better suggestion. I would love to have benchmarking info there, both for performance and storage efficiency. Cheers, Fernando = This page summarises some aspects of file systems on SD Cards based on a thread in the OpenMoko community list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-January/040521.html I got a new SD card. Which file system is the best? Short answer: ext3. Other options: ext2, vfat. Don't use wear-aware file systems like jffs2 and ubifs. Long answer: In principle you can use any file system that is supported by the kernel in your Open Moko, commonly FAT, ext2, and ext3, and reiserfs. The main difference between the first two and second two, is that the second set (ext3, reiserfs) supports journaling. The journal is an extra data structure used to make sure that the file system is always in a consistent state. Typically, if a crash happens in the system, the file system might get corrupted and even become unusable. In simple terms, the fs first saves all the data needed to perform the operation in the journal and only then starts updating the file system. If something goes wrong, the fs can rely on the journal to safely repeat the operation and repair the file system. Without a journal, the operation will certainly be lost and it might not even be possible to fix the file system. If you read the mail thread, you'll see people both vouching for fat and ext2 but also others experiencing corruption and annoyed with both file systems. Since not many people are recommending reiserfs nowadays due to lack of maintenance, regardless of being considered better than ext2/3, ext3 remains as the choice. There are three disadvantages with the journaled file system: - lower performance at write time, since there is the extra work of the journal - increased chance of damaging the SD card due to extra use of the journal causing wearing - increased space usage (for the journal) Regarding performance, if you are using the SD mostly for static storage like maps or music files, it should not be a big problem. After the initial storage phase, the reads won't be delayed by the journal. Regarding the extra wearing, the number of write accesses before wearing seem to be sufficiently high not to have to bother with it, and the SD card in itself as automatic wearing leveling which will ensure that the journal will be written in another place after some time. All in all, sd card damage due to the journal should not be a practical issue. FAT might already be the fs in your card when you got a new one. It has the advantage of being recognised in many other systems. The data structures are simpler which might mean less writes on the sd-card and less code being executed (unverified) and you'll find more tools available to recover information when you get errors. But even if you use ext3 in the SD Card you should be able to have access to it through the USB interface, instead of feeding the acrd directly into the PC SD reader. It is also important to note that ext is faster than FAT (benchmark, anyone?) but, most importantly, it supports permissions, which FAT doesn't. Of course, since FR is in general a single user device, the permissions might be not so important. Another advantage of ext2/3 is linking support, which, for instance, if you are storing maps and you have blank tiles files, you can keep a think blank file and have all the others be just a link to this one (you would need a script for that to make it practical) What about file systems like jffs2 and ubifs, which are aware of flash card wearing? SD cards, according to SanDisk specs, should have wear leveling logic, which controls the number of writes and remaps blocks as needed. Wear-aware file systems might actually play against the logic of the card and are usually not recommendable. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki page - which file system in sd card?
arne anka wrote: systems. Since not many people are recommending reiserfs nowadays due to lack of maintenance, regardless of being considered better than ext2/3, ext3 remains as the choice. it's not only lack of maintenance and reiserfs is not considered to be better (by whom?)! I was just trying to keep it simple: I could say general lack of support, lack of commitment from the community. I believe Hans Reiser was not keen on supporting reiserfs since he preferred people to use to reiser4. As you Suse, moved from reiserfs to ext3. Thus lack of maintenance does not seem incorrect to me. If you prefer another option, fine. As for the better, unfortunately I don't have any benchmarks but I can look for it when I have more time. I can say for sure by my own experience that reiserfs compared to ext3 with a minimal journal and same block size, does take significantly more space. Sufficiently so for me to move 100GB or so of data from ext3 to reiserfs. I don't remember all the details since it was already several years ago. Oh, and you said Suse moved to ext3, from reiserfs, right? I assume they preferred it over ext3 before they had to move to ext3 for other likely non-technical reasons. the best you could say is, that opinions are divided on the subject. ext3 has a long history of kernel support compared to reiserfs -- if reiserfs would be considered better, ext3 would not have gained the attrention it got -- there's no natural choice. even suse, a long term supporter and co-developer of reiser switched to ext3 -- and certainly not due to lack of maintenance. Well, I understand Suse was doing some maintenance but without namesys fully committed to it and the head developer not available, I think those reasons were more than sufficient to drop it. Not many technical reasons needed I think. the choice depends entirely on the given circumstances and personal preferences -- the biggest obstacle for reiser would be that the available kernels do not support it imo. would be interesting, to ask, why not, btw. Ah! someone mentioned using reiserfs for sd cards, so I assumed it was supported by open moko kernels. Then I would prefer to change the text and simply mention reiserfs is not available. But even if you use ext3 in the SD Card you should be able to have access to it through the USB interface, instead of feeding the acrd directly into the PC SD reader. huh? what is that supposed to mean and what does ext3, compared to other fs, have to do with accessing the sd card through usb (as opposed to what? wlan? bluetooth?). Well, on the list someone pointed out that the universality of FAT was not so relevant because if you wanted to access the data from a Windows machine it would be better to use USB instead of removing the card and inserting it in the Windows PC reader. anyway, thanks for the effort to compile a wiki entry! ;-) No problem, unfortunately the subject does seem to bring some amount of subjectivity, maybe even emotion. (it's time consuming and complex to get hard facts on comparing file systems). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] No route to host with latest upgrade of unstable!
Tony Berth wrote: Dear list, I just did an upgrade on the latest SHR unstable image and now isn't possible to connect via ssh to the FR any more. I get the 'No route to host' error. Were some changes? I thing the usb0 interface gets a inet6 address only? Any advice? I'm using unstable from 23.01 and ubuntu 8.10 and the setup which is advised on the wiki page for usb networking is not working well. Firstly, sometimes (if not always) I have to unplug and replug the cable for usb to be recognised in Ubuntu. Then I just run manually: sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 /etc/network/freerunner where freerunner is the script for automatic routing (or is it bridging?) to/from FR. HTH, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multitouch possible?
kris Occhipinti wrote: I agree that it is a hardware limitation. But, you never know what some one will come up. One day someone may come up with an idea the rest of us never thought about. Yes, just for the folklore, this reminds me of the old ZX Spectrum console which had only 16 colours until someone figured out that if they switched two colours on a pixel fast enough the eye would perceive the combined colour. A new era of beautiful games started there :-) Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which file system for sd card?
Sean McNeil wrote: Neither of those filesystems are appropriate for sd cards. They have wear leveling logic that is not necessary or a good thing as it is already done in firmware for sd. An efficient journaled filesystem not designed for memory devices (like ext3) would be best. A quick net reading tells me that wear leveling works by counting writes and remapping sectors. Still wearing doesn't go away. It's also not clear what are the limitations of wear leveling. How much space remapping requires (or is reserved beforehand) and thus how many sectors can be remapped and whether it also suffers from wearing problems itself. Although wearing is not important for my specific use (mostly static storage of maps), I think a journaled file system essentially duplicates the writes in terms of data and might have some extra writes for extra data structures. Thus, speculating a bit, a journaled file system uses more space, causes more writings and can put more strain on wear leveling (the journal, in addition to the file system data structures). Another issue, actually the most important for this use, is read performance. FAT has the advantage of requiring simple logic but indexing it's poor (I think it does a sequential access on each relevant directory table). I guess it also depends a bit on the FAT implementation (I've read subjective claims that Linux implementation is not the best). Unfortunately a quick search didn't return really interesting benchmarks. Cheers, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which file system for sd card?
Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: William Kenworthy ha scritto: I found vfat clearly better (less susceptible to corruption) than ext2, however ext3 is better than vfat, but will still play up at times. Using it for OSM maps BillK IMHO the best fs for sd is vfat if you don't care about permission, so if you have to put your photos or docs on it, else ext2 is BETTER than ext3 in this case for a simple reason, it doesn't have the journal. Not having the journal imlies a redouced number of write to sd and a reduced probability to get the data lost. I'm not sure I follow your logic favoring ext2. The point of ext3 journal is exactly to control for errors. Even if you get globally more chance of errors with ext3, you should only consider the errors in the journal. I mean, a write to ext2 is equivalent to a write in ext3's journal, since from here, ext3 guarantees no errors in the fs, even if takes more tries to update it. So, if the transfer from the journal to the fs itself is guaranteed, then the comparison should be between ext2 and the ext3's journal, right? Anyway, I'm also inclined for FAT, mostly for the simplicity (thus less susceptibility to corruption) and universality of the fs. I'm just left wondering about performance, in particular as a storage for maps. Cheers, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Over-quoting
Paul Fertser wrote: I'm so tired of all that over-quoting and top-posting! Can't you people have a little respect for others? Take a look at RFC1855, at least it has some sane reasoning. Well, since it is weekend I went to check TFM for you :-). I guess the relevant parts are: - If you are forwarding or re-posting a message you've received, do not change the wording. If the message was a personal message to you and you are re-posting to a group, you should ask permission first. You may shorten the message and quote only relevant parts, but be sure you give proper attribution. - Read all of a discussion in progress (we call this a thread) before posting replies. Avoid posting Me Too messages, where content is limited to agreement with previous posts. Content of a follow-up post should exceed quoted content. - If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! There are a few comments regarding top-postings, the one I preferred being: Top quotes vs. inline quotesI gree that if it's a complex matter inline quotes give you necessary context. But if I'm in a hurry - e.g. at an Internet Cafe dealing with a lot of email, a top quote can work well. It's a matter for the poster to use good judgement, rather than rigid rules. (pmarmite) Anyway, this is off-topic for the discussion. Cheers, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which file system for sd card - for Wiki
arne anka wrote: if it is not yet in the wiki, somebody should probably gather the bits from the archives and put it there -- it seem to be a rather recurrent question. I wrote the following text which I can put somewhere in the wiki. Since I'm no authority on the matter, I would appreciate feedback from the list beforehand. = I got a new SD card. Which file system is the best? In general, vfat or ext2 are the most recommended. Vfat might already be the fs in your card when you got a new one. It has the advantage of being recognised in many other systems. The data structures are simpler which might mean less writes on the sd-card and less code being executed (this statement should have some objective verification) and you'll find more tools available to recover information when you get errors. ext is Linux centric but one of the most tested and tuned. It is also a faster file system than vfat (citation?) and most importantly, if you need, it supports permissions, which vfat doesn't. What about file systems like jffs2 and ubifs, which are aware of flash card wearing? SD cards, according to SanDisk specs, should have wear leveling logic, which controls the number of writes and remaps blocks as needed. Wear-aware file systems might actually play against the logic of the card are usually not recommendable. What about journaled file systems like ext3? The advantage is that it will maintain your data in a consistent state. However, the journal uses extra space and will impose more writes in the sd card, thus decreasing performance and wearing the card. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
Thanks, arne, Helge, I just made my second try this morning and I got a lock in 35 secs (tried two times, consistent lock time). 8-) I don't know why the different behaviors, but I did the tests inside a party tent I've in the garden and after reading how GPS behaves in weather (rain, cloud, snow makes no perceptible difference), the only thing that comes to my mind is that last time the tent was probably wet or might even had a thin layer of ice (temp was 0ºC). I don't know if it was sufficient to compromise the reception (tent now is dry), but I'll test it again when I get similar conditions. Cheers, Fernando arne anka wrote: slot. If it isn't there, then your phone have this problem. not necessarily. in fact, if you really have this problem you didn't update your kernel a very long time. the gps/sd card fix is in all kernels available for a very long time now, the hw fix is not necessary. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr? - no reboot with usb linked to pc
I don't know if this is shr specific or not, but two times I left the usb cable connected to my desktop during a reboot locked om (at the splash screen). Is this known? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
which file system for sd card?
I bought a 2GB sd card which came formatted with FAT. Is this a good option for the sd card or is it advisable to use another fs? I'm using it for osm maps. Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS 0.9.5 is out
I'm using shr unstable (yesterday's) and I got * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for tangogps: * gtk+-fastscaling (= 2.10.14) * I tried: opkg install gtk+-fastscaling and I got: An error ocurred, return value: -50512. I'm not really familiar with opkg, but I think the packages are supposed to come from shr/unstable/ipk, but the package is not there... Fernando Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, a new release of tangoGPS is out. Improvements are: - better handling of broken NMEA (some people experienced crashers) - fix for correct lat/lon display for eastern longitudes and southern latitudes - Google has changed their URI scheme thus satellite imagery works now too - anyway, there is copyright on them, just use free alternatives - a cool new default repository is opencycle map - the whole repository dialog is now overhauled ...and a couple more things. As usual you can get it at http://www.tangogps.org/ By the way, I will be at FOSDEM and spend some time at the GNOME stand. Just drop by and say hello. Have fun Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS 0.9.5 is out
Michael Sheldon wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: I'm using shr unstable (yesterday's) and I got * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for tangogps: * gtk+-fastscaling (= 2.10.14) * I tried: opkg install gtk+-fastscaling and I got: An error ocurred, return value: -50512. I'm not really familiar with opkg, but I think the packages are supposed to come from shr/unstable/ipk, but the package is not there... Just use --force-depends, in most recent builds the gtk+ package is simply gtk+ rather than gtk+-fastscaling. So you'll have all the necessary files anyway. Thanks, I used: opkg -force-depends install http://www.tangogps.org/downloads /tangogps_0.9.5-r0_armv4t.opk but I still get the same error. (I also tried --force-depends, it seems both syntaxes are accepted). Cheers, Mike. Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, a new release of tangoGPS is out. Improvements are: - better handling of broken NMEA (some people experienced crashers) - fix for correct lat/lon display for eastern longitudes and southern latitudes - Google has changed their URI scheme thus satellite imagery works now too - anyway, there is copyright on them, just use free alternatives - a cool new default repository is opencycle map - the whole repository dialog is now overhauled ...and a couple more things. As usual you can get it at http://www.tangogps.org/ By the way, I will be at FOSDEM and spend some time at the GNOME stand. Just drop by and say hello. Have fun Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS 0.9.5 is out
Michael Sheldon wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: Michael Sheldon wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: I'm using shr unstable (yesterday's) and I got * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for tangogps: * gtk+-fastscaling (= 2.10.14) * I tried: opkg install gtk+-fastscaling and I got: An error ocurred, return value: -50512. I'm not really familiar with opkg, but I think the packages are supposed to come from shr/unstable/ipk, but the package is not there... Just use --force-depends, in most recent builds the gtk+ package is simply gtk+ rather than gtk+-fastscaling. So you'll have all the necessary files anyway. Thanks, I used: opkg -force-depends install http://www.tangogps.org/downloads /tangogps_0.9.5-r0_armv4t.opk but I still get the same error. (I also tried --force-depends, it seems both syntaxes are accepted). Are you sure it was an error? You'll still see the same message with --force-depends but it will be downgraded to a warning instead of an error and the package will be installed despite it. Sorry, you are right; as I said, not really familiar with it, and a too quick reading of the message. Something else, the tangoGPS desktop icon stop being displayed during install. The tangogps.desktop file is under /usr/share/applications (I believe this is the right one) but it's not displayed anymore. I haven't rebooted yet to see if it comes back, but anyway I guess this should not be happening. Cheers, Fernando Cheers, Mike. Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, a new release of tangoGPS is out. Improvements are: - better handling of broken NMEA (some people experienced crashers) - fix for correct lat/lon display for eastern longitudes and southern latitudes - Google has changed their URI scheme thus satellite imagery works now too - anyway, there is copyright on them, just use free alternatives - a cool new default repository is opencycle map - the whole repository dialog is now overhauled ...and a couple more things. As usual you can get it at http://www.tangogps.org/ By the way, I will be at FOSDEM and spend some time at the GNOME stand. Just drop by and say hello. Have fun Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS 0.9.5 is out
arne anka wrote: Also my thanks to the author for such a nice app! GPS was my third reason to buy OM. Now it's only missing a navigation guide with voice. navit. Thanks, ps: please cut the mail to the necessary minimum when replying. Sure, didn't realise it was an issue. Is it for bandwith/storage, readibility or something else? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
Thanks Hemantha, I could not yet come back to GPS testing but I'll try it. Cheers, Fernando Hemantha Holla M wrote: On 14/01/2009, *Fernando Martins* ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: so something with the device is not working. Also, TangoGPS tells me no GPS found. Probably unrelated, but on Om2008.*, I saw this TangoGPS complaint quite often ; this was because somehow 'lo' interface was down and was solved by '/etc/init.d/networking restart' Hemantha Any further suggestions from here? Regards, Fernando Michael Sheldon wrote: You can test fso-gpsd by running telnet localhost 2947 then typing r and pressing return. You should the receive GPS data. Cheers, Mike. Fernando Martins wrote: Actually I just thought I had to start manually fso-gpsd (that's what's on the shr wiki page) but as a matter of fact I checked now that it is being actually started at boot time. I'm now trying to figure out how to check whether gps is on/off and how to control it. Thomas des Courières wrote: did you try http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2104833 ? 2009/1/13 Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl writes: receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? 1) is the GPS chip powered on? 2) is there a process that has the serial port for GPS open? 3) is that reading any data? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Hemantha Holla M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
shr- GPS howto?
I've started the demon fso-gpsd and then tangoGPS but it's still receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? Are there any known extra steps needed to get TangoGPS to work? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl writes: receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? 1) is the GPS chip powered on? I remember in original om had an option to turn on/off GPS but I can't find it in SHR. Anyway, I assumed gpsd would take care of it. So, in SHR, how can I check whether GPS is on/off and how to switch it on/off? 2) is there a process that has the serial port for GPS open? 3) is that reading any data? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
Actually I just thought I had to start manually fso-gpsd (that's what's on the shr wiki page) but as a matter of fact I checked now that it is being actually started at boot time. I'm now trying to figure out how to check whether gps is on/off and how to control it. Thomas des Courières wrote: did you try http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2104833 ? 2009/1/13 Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl writes: receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? 1) is the GPS chip powered on? 2) is there a process that has the serial port for GPS open? 3) is that reading any data? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
ok, it's the first time I'm looking into this GPS stuff. Following the suggestion from Timo in another post, I do a cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron (which is different from his /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-regltr.7/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron, but that's what I found) and that gives me 0. A echoed a 1 to it, but it's the first time a learn about sysfs and I'm not sure this way of setting configuration really works. Anyway, I telneted then to the port but I'm not really familiar with these GPS codes. This seems to be NEMEA data and a quick reading tells me that $GPRMC should give me my coordinates but I'm getting empty stuff $GPRMC,,V,,*31 so something with the device is not working. Also, TangoGPS tells me no GPS found. Any further suggestions from here? Regards, Fernando Michael Sheldon wrote: You can test fso-gpsd by running telnet localhost 2947 then typing r and pressing return. You should the receive GPS data. Cheers, Mike. Fernando Martins wrote: Actually I just thought I had to start manually fso-gpsd (that's what's on the shr wiki page) but as a matter of fact I checked now that it is being actually started at boot time. I'm now trying to figure out how to check whether gps is on/off and how to control it. Thomas des Courières wrote: did you try http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2104833 ? 2009/1/13 Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl writes: receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? 1) is the GPS chip powered on? 2) is there a process that has the serial port for GPS open? 3) is that reading any data? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: shr- GPS howto?
No luck: - I've setup date and timezone; - GPS is on, per /sys/class... incantation - demon fso-gpsd is on, checked with ps - telnet comunicates with gpsd but no good data - tangoGPS doesn't find GPS device I have no idea of the reception capabilities of om (or GPS devices in general): is it supposed to work indoors? Any further suggestions? Thanks for all the help so far, Fernando Michael Sheldon wrote: You don't need to power on the GPS device yourself, FSO will handle this for you when a client requests the GPS resource (and then power it down again when there are no longer any clients using it). You'll get empty data until the device acquires a fix. From what I've read elsewhere it seems important to make sure that your time-zone settings and date/time are correct, as it seems FSO uses these when getting a fix. Cheers, Mike. Fernando Martins wrote: ok, it's the first time I'm looking into this GPS stuff. Following the suggestion from Timo in another post, I do a cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron (which is different from his /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-regltr.7/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron, but that's what I found) and that gives me 0. A echoed a 1 to it, but it's the first time a learn about sysfs and I'm not sure this way of setting configuration really works. Anyway, I telneted then to the port but I'm not really familiar with these GPS codes. This seems to be NEMEA data and a quick reading tells me that $GPRMC should give me my coordinates but I'm getting empty stuff $GPRMC,,V,,*31 so something with the device is not working. Also, TangoGPS tells me no GPS found. Any further suggestions from here? Regards, Fernando Michael Sheldon wrote: You can test fso-gpsd by running telnet localhost 2947 then typing r and pressing return. You should the receive GPS data. Cheers, Mike. Fernando Martins wrote: Actually I just thought I had to start manually fso-gpsd (that's what's on the shr wiki page) but as a matter of fact I checked now that it is being actually started at boot time. I'm now trying to figure out how to check whether gps is on/off and how to control it. Thomas des Courières wrote: did you try http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2104833 ? 2009/1/13 Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi mailto:timo.lindf...@iki.fi Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl mailto:ferna...@cmartins.nl writes: receiving no coords. What can I do to test GSP services? 1) is the GPS chip powered on? 2) is there a process that has the serial port for GPS open? 3) is that reading any data? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
which SHR image
I would like to try SHR but there are plenty of images in SHR image folder. Which files should I get for flashing? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which SHR image
Very much appreciated, thanks. the obvious suggestion for the right person would be to have your reply as a readme file in the folder... Fernando Helge Hafting wrote: Fernando Martins wrote: I would like to try SHR but there are plenty of images in SHR image folder. Which files should I get for flashing? The latest is what you want, but of course there are several latest images too. At this time of writing, the latest is dated dec.16 and dec.17. The images dated dec.17 don't seem to be newer, the upload must have happened around midnight. Some of them are described here: http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Get Started This describes the difference between the lite image and the image that isn't lite. Basically, lite has fewer apps. So most users don't want lite, unless they want it as a basis for customization. Images with gta02 in them are for the neo freerunner, images with gta01 in them are for the older neo 1973. Images with very short names, such as shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 are just links to images with longer names. See the file sizes to see just which ones. Files with rootfs in their names are root file systems (contains standard linux software and distribution apps). This gives you three files to choose from for a freerunner, assuming you don't want lite: openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20081216-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20081216-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20081215-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz The .tar.gz file is not an image for flashing. It is simply an archive with all the files. It is useful in that you can extract the files on a pc easily. You may then copy single files to the freerunner in order to fix a botched customization without having to reflash. If you have customized over several weeks, then perhaps you don't want to reflash and start from scratch. Both of the other two works. The summary file is slightly bigger, but is preferable. I have no idea why - but was told so. You also need a linux kernel image, in addition to the root file system. Kernel images all start with uImage. The name contain gta01 or gta02, depending on what phone they are for. Simply get the newest that is correct for your phone. You may also want a modules file. If you get one, get the one that matches your kernel. If your kernel has oe03 and gta02 in the name, then so should the module file. The git part of the name should match too. Modules are extra drivers. You don't need them right away, I haven't bothered yet. You may need them if you want to do something slightly unusal, such as connecting USB devices to the phone. module files aren't images for flashing, you unpack them on the phone using linux commands, after you have the SHR image running normally. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
MD5 checksums for images
I've downloaded images for om2008.12, FSO and SHR and something that puzzles me is the lack of MD5 checksums on these repositories. The sums would just take a couple of minutes to put there, so I'm wondering if there is some other check going on by dfu before flashing?? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR: contacts locked and terminal without keyboard
Thanks, finally I have (at least) a basic phone functioning, with SHR! Next step, GPS. Klaus Kurzmann wrote: * Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl [090112 23:14]: I just flashed SHR latest (2008-12-16) but when I went to contacts and pressed New it stopped responding. I could not kill it with illume. I went then to the terminal, however it misses a keyboard. How can I get one? if you tap on the illume top bar you will find a qwerty button that switches the keyboard on and off. Should it be possible to add new contacts to the Contacts app? yes. Regards, Fernando mrmoku ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
