Re: YOUR action is needed to get the Community Updates up running again

2009-06-19 Thread Gothnet



Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
 
 Hi!
 
 OM isn't working on the software for our phones any more and it looks
 like that also the releasing of Community Updates
 (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates) has stopped
 
 

Hooray! It's less than a year sine the FR commercial release and it's
already abandonware!
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Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)

2009-05-21 Thread Gothnet


Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 
 in fact there is a lot of closed linux devices out there , for example
  routers,motorola phones, ebook reader... and those doesn't mean Linux
 is closed,
 
 It only means that if they don't publish the code, and that's usual,
 they are violating the GPL. http://gpl-violations.org/
 
 

Not necessarily. They don't have to provide any mechanism to re-flash the
device, then the linux based device is just as closed, even when they
publish the source. GPL does not protect against this (v3 might, not sure).


Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 
 The problem with Android is not the license of the OS, but the
 ecosystem around it. Closed hardware, DRMd content (applications,
 music), the restrictions imposed on the OS by cell companies... it's a
 nightmare, and the freedom of the user doesn't even appear in the
 horizon.
 

It's BSD style FOSS. Anyone can do what they like with it. The fact that
others can close their versions doesn't detract from that. If you want to
argue that it loses flexibility as a platfor, when you're using a self- or
community-compiled version, then sure.


Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 I have strong feelings against Android, for the restrictions around it
 are very similar to those of the iPhone, though Apple doesn't try to
 disguise themselves as open source paladins.
 

No, they really aren't. You can download and install stuff from outside the
approved store on commercial android handsets
and on free/open ones ones (Android on FR) you have full control, including
the full source under APL2.

You just try getting the source from Apple and running it somewhere else.


Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 Android, as a platform (not an OS, not a device) is worst than closed,
 for it lures developers with the false concept of an open environment.
 

Yes, just like the entire BSD operating system! It's a trap!
*facepalm*



Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 Yes, people could fork and create gAndroid but where would they run
 it? It's a wolf with a lamb skin,
 

Why fork when you can port? There are several places doing just that and
re-submitting upstream when they have good results. It's being ported to
some nokia devices, netbooks, FR etc.

And why is it a wolf in lambs skin? I mean, what the hell are you talking
about at this point? Where would they run what?


Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
 
 And my last rant. Why did they create yet another isolated platform?
 For f*cks sake! It's not even standard java! At least Objective-C
 builds on top of C! Couldn't they create a set of libraries? Or use if
 they wanted portability use Python? Argh!
 
 My 2 cents
 

Java is the most popular language on the planet right now, more people know
it than know pretty much anything else going. Attracting developers is
essential to the success of the platform. Why *not* use java?

I use python myself, and I like it, but I don't see why choosing java was
wrong.


Frankly, I think you're nuts. A big corp puts a lot of work in and releases
a whole new userspace environment targeted at MIDs, phones etc, under one of
the least restrictive licenses out there, and you're calling it worse than
closed source!

You're weird!

You instinctively decide to hate it due to some features you don't like
(which are aimed at supporting proprietary apps, and you're free to disable
in your version, or just not use those apps). There's nothing stopping
people from releasing android apps as FOSS. personally I really like the
idea of paying for apps from an app store if I choose to, or using/writing
free ones if I don't.
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Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)

2009-05-21 Thread Gothnet

I should also add that at least in the short term I would expect that being
able to run android applications on FR is going to give me a far wider
choice of mobile-friendly software than any of the true linux distros
available for FR.
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RE: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)

2009-05-21 Thread Gothnet



jldominguez wrote:
 
 Hello, is it true that Google can uninstall an app not approved by
 themselves (that is, an app not included in the 'Android Market')? I
 understand the app would be uninstalled when the user visits a Google shop
 or accesses a Google service?
 

It's not true that any non-approved app would be uninstalled as soon as the
user visits the market, that's a little bit too Apple-ish. The App store is
not the only place that you can get software.

However there does seem to be a kill switch that would enable google to
disable specific applications. IMHO this is another good reason to run it on
FR instead of G1 or other closed handset though, as this capability can be
discovered and disabled in the source tree.
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Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)

2009-05-21 Thread Gothnet



GNUtoo wrote:
 
 
 There is something stopping people from contributing:
 make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by
 `out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/droiddoc_intermediates/javalib.jar'.
 Stop.
 what should I do?
 
 PS: I've some java warnings etc...I hope it's not the fault of
 icedtea/openjdk
 
 

I'm not familiar with that particular situation, though someone on the just
posted some generic build instructions, which might be useful so I'll repost
it -


Marcelo wrote:
 
 
 Go to: http://git.koolu.org/
 
 Follow the instructions there to checkout the code.
 
 Go to http://trac.koolu.org/ and follow the rest of the instructions.
 
 Basically:
 
 $ mkdir -p ~/bin
 $ curl http://android.git.kernel.org/repo  ~/bin/repo
 $ chmod a+x ~/bin/repo
 $ mkdir ~/mydroid
 $ cd ~/mydroid
 $ repo init -u git://git.koolu.org/freerunner/platform/manifest.git -b
 koolu-1.0
 $ repo sync
 $ make TARGET_PRODUCT=freerunner
 
 replace koolu-1.0 by whatever branch you wish to work on (look at
 the git repo to find out which ones are available)
 
 Since you need that TARGET_PRODUCT variable always, I find it better to do
 this:
 
 $ cat  buildspec.mk
 TARGET_PRODUCT := freerunner
 ^D
 $ make
 
 If you wish to switch a branch, do
 
 $ repo init -b new_branch
 $ repo sync
 
 (and likely rm -rf out)
 
 Marcelo
 
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Re: root almighty

2009-05-20 Thread Gothnet



GNUtoo wrote:
 
 On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 21:56 +0100, Juergen Schinker wrote:
 
 About the android port of the openmoko:
 I heard There were several limitations such as:
 *all hardware not fully functional yet (wifi,calls,suspend etc...):
 

Suspend is fine.
Wifi is fantastic, so much better than any of the other distros have been.
Calls work just fine.
GPS and GPRS have worked brilliantly on some images.

This all may have taken a few steps back lately with the concentration on
moving to cupcake. I'm not sure how great the koolu beta 6 is, though
progress is still being made. Michael Trimarchi at panicking.kicks-ass.org
has made some great images (14.6 in particular worked very well and I was
able to use the phone as a full GPS with AndNav for the first time).


GNUtoo wrote:
 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android_usage
 *has problem with booting:
 you need SD+flash in order to run android
 maybe using a distro on sd and android on flash+another SD could do the
 trick?
 

There is an sd-only setup method, koolu.com forums have more details. But
yes, the usual setup is to have the OS flashed to NAND and then two
partitions on the SD card.



GNUtoo wrote:
 
 About the android OS:
 *Is the SDK free(as in freedom) software...I bet it isn't but I could be
 wrong...this could stop me from trying the android OS
 

The entire OS is free. The kernel is linux and everything else is under the
APL2, an FSF approved license. 

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#apache2



GNUtoo wrote:
 
 *it could be difficult to run applications depending on glibc...I didn't
 test bionic(android libc) compatibility...in openembedded we also have
 others libc...such as uclibc
 

Yes, android is very, very non standard. Whilst it is a Linux due to the
kernel, it's cetainly not GNU/Linux as we know it. The userspace is
restricted and weird. It's pretty much designed just to support the UI and
the other java code. You certainly wouldn't be able to use Qt or GTK with
android. This may well rule it out for a lot of people. For me, it's more
important to have the freerunner as a working device that I can try to hack
at later than as a full UNIX platform. The app store is also appealing,
though I'm not sure it's available yet.


GNUtoo wrote:
 
 *I don't know android build system...maybe porting the android OS to
 openembedded could be a good idea...
 
 Denis.
 

That's not something I know a hell of a lot about. There is a build system
(I think it just uses make) and a toolchain available. Again, check koolu if
you're interested.


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Re: root almighty

2009-05-20 Thread Gothnet



GNUtoo wrote:
 
 
 I've asked on IRC about android SDK and I was told that there were 2
 versions:
 *a non-free version tight to that EULA:
 http://developer.android.com/sdk/terms.html
 *a free version compilable from source without google stuff(such as
 maps)
 I was told I had to gab source.android.com, type make and then make sdk
 
 so I think I'll try android...but I'll look first if it's tight to
 google services...(I'm already spied a lot using google search
 engine...I don't want to be spied more)
 
 Thanks a lot for all your responses.
 
 Denis.
 

I didn't know there was still a proprietary version of the SDK, and that
does suck a bit. The Android on Freerunner stuff builds the open bits.
Google gears library is missing, I think only because nobody's ported it
yet.

That said, I had no problem hooking up the mail client to my SMTP server. No
google account needed.

On bluetooth - that's not perfect in android on FR by a long way. I could
create a pairing with my BT headset, an the button on it worked for
answering calls, but no audio was routed over it.

To make a version for Neo Freerunner, you'll need to use the Koolu
repository as well, to get the FR specific changes they're doing. I'm not
saying it's going to be easy...
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Re: root almighty

2009-05-19 Thread Gothnet



Max Suraev wrote:
 
 В Втр, 19/05/2009 в 09:48 +0200, Radek Polak пишет:
 Maybe take a look at Android?
 
 That's not an option for me because I plan to limit myself to free (as
 in freedom) distributions only. If I wanted some proprietary staff on my
 phone I would just buy some sort of chineese iphone :-)
 
 Thanks for suggestion anyway,
 Max.
 
 

What's proprietary about android?

You think the android folks are throwing hacked binaries around the place?

Android is under the APL2, which has even less restriction than the GPL, The
source is available to anyone. I don't really see what's proprietary about
it. Check out koolu for their android source git, though the mainline source
is available directly from google.

Some of the android images have worked a hell of a lot more smoothly than
anything that came out of OM, too.
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Re: root almighty

2009-05-19 Thread Gothnet



rms wrote:
 
 The DRM locking you out of applying changes to phones. The excuse of oh,
 its the
 phone maker/operator that does it is a mere smoke screen.
 

DRM? They're just locked, you don't get root if you buy a G1 or other
similar phone. I also don't see what's a smokescreen about the fact that
operators won't sell an unlocked phone? It's just a fact, and that's why
it's locked. I don't like it which is why I'm not advocating buying one.


rms wrote:
 
 And no, an unbricked android phone does not count as Free Software since
 you're
 possibly breaking the law (in the US thanks to the DMCA, and in EU thanks
 to the
 EUCD).
 

Who's talking about an unbricked anything? I'm talking about android on OM.


rms wrote:
 
 You think the android folks are throwing hacked binaries around the
 place?
 No, just gladly providing the tools to remove our freedoms.
 

You're an idiot.


rms wrote:
 
 Android is under the APL2, which has even less restriction than the GPL,
 
 Only on a superficial level can that be true. It has less restrictions
 than the
 GPL because the later tries to make sure everyone has all the essencial
 freedoms.
 
 APL2 (and similar licenses) mean that somewhere along the line YOU may not
 have
 a Free Software phone on your hands, just another proprietary piece of
 crap.
 

I'm sorry, I'm all for the GPL, but if I have the source (under APL2) for
the OS I'm running on my openmoko, nobody can take that away and make it
proprietary. You're just wrong.


rms wrote:
 
 Yes, the OpenMoko is the first Free Software example of Android (and it's
 the
 worst out there for making calls on the FreeRunner, according to the
 comments
 I've seen).
 
 Rui
 

Really? Best distro so far in my opinion. No need to drop to the command
line for GPRS/WiFi. Stable, decent keyboard, smooth graphics, responsive.

Compared to android most of the other stuff I've seen on the OM is crap.


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Re: Koolu.com?

2009-05-13 Thread Gothnet



Rene Horn wrote:
 
 Yeah, I already knew that.  I'm just wondering if anyone knows what's
 happened?
 
 Did they lose the domain?  whois records show Network Solutions as owning
 the domain.
 
 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 2:56 AM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/koolu.com
 


Well that site says it's up, but I can't get at from home or work.

Weird.
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Re: Ain't it funny..

2009-05-07 Thread Gothnet



arne anka wrote:
 
 
 nope. he's just a troll.
 
 


he's just saying what a lot of people are thinking

I still hope to use my OM for *something*, but the chances of it ever being
a reliable mobile phone are looking pretty slim.
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Re: android-sd-card

2009-03-27 Thread Gothnet



 i didn't found a terminal and i 
detect no ssh-daemon, so i couldn't connect directly to the phone. had someone 
a reason here?

i just want to edit /etc/fstab





There is no ssh daemon. Nor is there a /etc/fstab!

If you have your SD card in two partitions, as is recommended for android, then 
the second partition is mounted as /data

The first partition should be mounted as /sdcard and is used as the equivalent 
of the extrnal SD on the G1, where the phone looks for music and other stuff.

in some of the images this mount fails due to /sdcard not existing. You'll need 
to get access using adb and then remount the root partition as rw, create the 
mount point and the reboot the phone, if this directory isn't there.

Then the phone storage details in the settings should display both internal and 
sd card storage.
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Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left

2009-03-24 Thread Gothnet




You should have stopped here IMHO. It really is none of our 
(community's) business, and it would be a lot more productive to just 
focus on the question of where do we go from here?


Hey, something being none of our business has never stopped a good rant before!

Personally I'm beginning to feel like the only hope for getting a decent phone 
out of the FR is the independent work going on around android.

Actually, beginning is a lie.

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Re: HTC Dream Developer Edition / T-Mobile G1

2009-02-18 Thread Gothnet



scholbert wrote:
 
 
 
 joakim wrote:
 
 The selling point for me when buying the G1 is that I read that its
 possible to boot debian on it, just like the Freerunner.
 
 
 Unfortunately that's not quite true, at present.
 
 What people have done is to loop mount a canned debian filesystem and
 chroot to it, allowing you to use most of the debian userspace.
 
 At least one guy took it further and used unionfs to achieve a sort-of
 merged debian and android filesystem. As yet I'm unaware of debian
 actually being able to install/boot on G1. I looked into this as I was
 interested in a merged debian/android on FR, using android UI but with
 debian underneath. No joy yet.
 


How bizarre, if you forget to login it posts as scholbert
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Re: London pub meet on the 11th

2009-02-11 Thread Gothnet

Bump.

I'll be there between 6 and 6.30.

And if the batteries on my eee hold out I'll be happy to shove a recent
android build onto any unattended FRs :)




gnublade wrote:
 
 Just pinging the list to say that we're on for the 11th (this
 Wednesday) at the Old Bank of England on Fleet Street from 7.30.
 
 http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/66/660/Old_Bank_of_England/Fleet_Street
 
 Invite any OM owners, potential owners and interested parties,
 hopefully we can get a good mix of distributions and share our tips,
 tricks and war stories.  If you own an OpenMoko it goes without saying
 bring it with, even if it's a brick you never know somebody might be
 able to breath some life into it.
 
 Hope to see you there.
 
 

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Re: London pub meet on the 11th

2009-02-03 Thread Gothnet



Jan Henkins wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 7:30 is good, OBoE sounds splendid! See y'all there! First person to be
 there, please hog a nicely sized table, and display something vaguely
 Moko-ish/Linux-ish/Computer-ish (Linux Format mag or anything siilarly
 geeky) on the table for others to spot. It's a nice trick shown to me by
 some greybeards heavily into the online-community thing.
 
 

7.30 at OBoE it is then. I'll be bringing another FR owner I work with, and
given we're close to the area we should be able to get there a bit ahead of
time and try for a table.

Signage is also good. I'll print something out. having said that, I've done
this sort of thing once or twice before, and you'd be surprised how many
people miss the signs but find the group anyway...
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Re: microsoft patent with idea's from this list

2009-02-03 Thread Gothnet



Peter Nijs wrote:
 
 I'm almost sure someone suggested
 hooking up an external screen to it. That's technically not possible
 

Isn't it?

You can get external USB gfx cards these days.

Whether FR has the power to drive one, or if there are FOSS drivers, I have
no idea.
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Re: London pub meet on the 11th

2009-02-02 Thread Gothnet



Gothnet wrote:
 
 Hello all,
 
 So, it's a couple of weeks since the last thread, are we still having a
 pub meet on the 11th?
 
 I've looked at the pubs suggested, and my vote's on the Old Bank of
 England on Fleet street. I don't like Sam Smith's beer and OBoE is lazily
 close to work :)
 
 So who's available and could sup a couple of beers and chat about the
 state of the world/phone?
 
 I'm Dave, by the way, and only used to be a goth, though the name kinda
 stuck. 
 


This plan does, of course, rely on the snow stopping at some point.

It's years since I've seen this much snow.
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Re: Questions about the usability of GTA02

2009-02-02 Thread Gothnet



Sarton O'Brien wrote:
 
 
 There really are some moments I can't help but giggle about ... but
 that's me and I know I have a wierd sense of humour :) 
 
 

Well, there was that time in October (when I was in Australia for a month on
holiday) and I had the FR with FDOM as my only phone. It woke up and rang
twice, I answered, no sound. Unrecognised number, could be important so...

I called them back, no sound.
I rebooted the phone. Wouldn't register GSM for ages. They called back. i
hit pick up too many times and the presses registered against the
hang-up button when it appeared. This happened again. Then the battery
started to go.

After about two hours of trying to call them back, I eventually sent a text
message to the other party, and it turns out it was a wrong number.

D'oh!
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Re: Questions about the usability of GTA02

2009-02-01 Thread Gothnet



Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
 
 Why? What is it that you expect the Neo Freerunner to do that the other
 handheld devices out there won't? You will have noticed that pretty much
 all
 the unhappy users are those expecting the Neo Freerunner to be just
 another
 well polished smartphone. If you buy a Neo Freerunner, do it for the right
 reasons so you avoid disappointment.
 
 

I take issue with that a bit.

I'm not the most happy of users but I didn't expect a fully polished
smartphone. Some of the reasons you state were important to me, specifically
the fully open software stack.

That said, I did expect the basics to work in a solid way, and IMHO they
still aren't there. No GPRS, GPS, WiFi, bad  battery life... those sorts of
things I could put up with and did expect. Suspend and wake issues, bad
sound and unreliable receiving of calls and text messages were not what I
expected.

I know there's been a lot of progress, and I know there will be more, but
it's still not as useful as my £50 sony ericsson.

That said I have a lot of hope about developments in Android and FSO and
being able to use it more in the coming couple of months.
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London pub meet on the 11th

2009-02-01 Thread Gothnet

Hello all,

So, it's a couple of weeks since the last thread, are we still having a pub
meet on the 11th?

I've looked at the pubs suggested, and my vote's on the Old Bank of England
on Fleet street. I don't like Sam Smith's beer and OBoE is lazily close to
work :)

So who's available and could sup a couple of beers and chat about the state
of the world/phone?

I'm Dave, by the way, and only used to be a goth, though the name kinda
stuck. 
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Re: Replacement Battery with 2300mAh, possible?

2009-01-20 Thread Gothnet



Leonti wrote:
 
 Sometimes they are not putting the right specifications on the batteries.
 Right now I have in my other phone (k700i) battery with the capacity
 double of the original one. But this is just a label. Uptime is the
 same as with the original battery.
 My point being that for more capacity you need to have bigger battery.
 It's not possible to contain more energy in the same amount of
 electrolyte. Ate least not for a battery for 11 euro.
 
 Leonti
 
 


I was wondering if the FR battery had pretty much hit the limit for modern,
affordable battery tech.

After searching around for a while myself I've found a variety of other
batteries that claim 1300, 1400, or even 1600 mAh in compatible
form-factors. But they're all on ebay and I don't trust 'em. Especially with
this line in the description -


A temporary short capacity of new battery will be resulted from not used
for a long time, it is normal, the total capacity will be reinstated via
used for 3-5 times.

Bad english aside, it sounds like a con. Though for £7.50 it's almost worth
a try

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220343010836
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Re: Pub meet: Cambridge, UK, 30.1.2009

2009-01-16 Thread Gothnet



Andy Kilner wrote:
 
 Not trying to usurp the thread but nothing happened with the plans to
 have a london meetup.  Should we just go to this one instead or would
 anyone be interested in holding one of our own?
 
 Unfortunately I won't be able to make this one as I already have plans
 for that weekend but would be good to get together with others and see
 what they're running and share experiences, maybe even plan a few
 hackathons.
 
 


Not to continue usurping this thread but I'd probably be up for a few pints
and a natter about OM in a pub in London at some point. I have a friend who
also has an FR that would likely come along.
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Re: [Om2008.12] Remove Install Bar

2009-01-16 Thread Gothnet



boilersoup wrote:
 
 On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:02:28 +1300
 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 personally, i think the asu theme (the stock one installed on the
 freerunner) blows, and you'd be best off switching it for something
 ore useful - there are plenty around on the web. the illume one,
 included on the phone, doesn't have that bar in, and does include the
 decent keyboard, and the wrench for further config of illume
 
 
 Hi Robin,
 
 I like the asu theme and I'm comfortable with decompiling and recreating
 the edc / edj files.
 
 I already knew all the web references you gave me
 but I'm still unable to locate where the Install Bar is declared.
 
 Any clue ?
 
 Thanks,
 Mike
 
 

I did this previously by going through all the resources, one by one,
disabling them and then recompiling the theme. It took a couple of hours but
it worked. Whichever file you use to tell the theme to set a background
image, it's in there somewhere.

Of course, since then I've reflashed the phone several times and never did
note down what I'd done. D'oh.
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Re: London pub meet

2009-01-16 Thread Gothnet



Jan Henkins wrote:
 
 
 Opening shot:
 
 Depending on the number of people, if we are a small group (8 and less),
 The Dove Inn in Hammersmith is a really nice place. Food is OK, placement
 is fabulous (right on the Thames, see link below) and it's easy to get to.
 However, it is small and popular, we might have to book. What I really
 like about it, is that it has an enclosed area out the back looking on to
 the Thames if somedbody quickly need to nip out for a fix (be it getting
 a GPS or nicotine fix...).
 
 I will put this in the WIKI as a recommended venue.
 
 The Dove details:
 
 http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/15/159/Dove_Inn/Hammersmith
 
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Jan Henkins
 
 
 

I can do the 11th, and I'm not too fussy about venues as long as there's an
ale or two on tap :)

Hammersmith is fine.
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Re: London pub meet

2009-01-16 Thread Gothnet



John-2 wrote:
 
 Hi Jan, I added a couple of pubs to the wiki.
 
 I really don't mind which location. If it became a regular meet it
 would be fun to try them all out! By coincidence I appear to have
 recommended two Samuel Smith's pubs which might not suit everyone. I
 will drink anything me :)
 
 John.
 
 2009/1/16 Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net:
 [snip]
 Hello John,

 On Fri, January 16, 2009 14:23, john wrote:
 Please suggest a location. I find the BITE site an Indispensable
 (c)(tm)
 tool in cases like this:

 http://www.beerintheevening.com/

 [snip]
 
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Not a big fan of their ale a couple of pints always has a strange effect
on the belly. I'll take a look at the wiki and maybe add one or two.
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Re: [no distro] What console s/w are linux people using to communicate with the Neo FR boot loader?

2009-01-14 Thread Gothnet



john dowd wrote:
 
 I've been using minicom but its a disaster. Unless some has settings
 that they would like to share.
 
 Cheers!!
 
 -- 
   John Dowd
   jdowd at slashdevslashnull dot org
 
 


Search the wiki for a program called neocon, that seemed to work for me.

or at least it did until my linux box stopped showing the /dev/ttyACM0
device, now I just have dfu-util
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Re: stupid networking question

2009-01-08 Thread Gothnet



arne anka wrote:
 
 networkmanager used to ignore interfaces listed in /etc/network/interfaces  
 (and does this still on my debian/unstable box), so putting the wiki's  
 stanza for usb0
 auto usb0
 ...
 
 might be worth a try.
 
 
 

That sounds like a good idea, thanks for the hint. My eee and other machines
all run debian and NM does the same. I think it's geared to usage situations
(like in 90% of cases) where only one network connection is required at a
time, and if a wired interface comes up you probably want to use it in
preference to wireless most of the time.

One of my quarrels with NM is that it's difficult to figure out how to stop
it autoconnecting to, say, the neighbours open wireless that you used for a
couple of days before your own ADSL was installed


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Re: stupid networking question

2009-01-08 Thread Gothnet



arne anka wrote:
 
 i think a right click somewhere brings up a list of preferred networks  
 where you can delete the entries not needed anymore (i distinctly remember  
 the list, but not how i got there -- the offending network maybe?)
 

I think that may depend on the version, but on the redhat machine I've got
beside me right now, yup, there's a right click edit wireless networks
option.

I also found out that somewhere under ~/.gconf there's a directory for each
wireless network and you can delete those. Less than intuitive though!
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Re: connect freerunner with debian to a windows-PC

2009-01-06 Thread Gothnet

This isn't going to help you but...

The windows driver seems dodgy. The 5th of december Android image made
windows bluescreen when you plugged the FR into a machine with the driver
installed.

Linux is your friend, though of course that's not always possible.
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Re: Car Charger?

2009-01-05 Thread Gothnet

Thanks for all the answers guys, looks like I can grab any old USB charger,
5V/2A being preferable.

And a GPS style wndscreen mount would be useful. I'm sure I can find
something though.
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Car Charger?

2009-01-03 Thread Gothnet

In about 9 or 20 months I intend to stop working for a few months and drive
around the continent of australia.

A GPS device would be good for this.

Given that this functionality is coming along ok, that by then we should
(hopefully!) have fairly stable operation, and that freerunner battery life
is probably never going to be more than a few hours with GPS running

Has anyone found a car charger that would work to supply power to the FR
running as a navigation aid?
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Re: Car Charger?

2009-01-03 Thread Gothnet



Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
 
 Not looked for one yet, but it has to have a DC Output from 3.7V 2A
 (battery written value) to 5V 2A (IIRC).
 
 Thanks to someone on IRC who helped me with this info, and don't ask me
 for more since I know almost nothing of electronics :)
 
 Rui
 
 


Thanks for that, from a quick search around (using 5V 2A as terms) it looks
like there might be a few options for that. There are a couple of things
that give you a power-only USB-A slot to plug devices into, or there are
chargers designed for other phones that use mini USB:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/216286187/dual_USB_car_charger_2A_.html
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=165045

Hmmm. Might have to try, they're fairly cheap.


To the others saying buy an inverter, it is a good idea, and I will be
travelling with a laptop too, but... it just seems wrong. Converting 12V DC
to AC via an inverter and then back to 5V DC for the device can't be that
efficient?



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Re: Help with nand u-boot environment

2009-01-02 Thread Gothnet


Leonardo-3 wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 I've been messing with u-boot and need some help.
 I was trying to set the rw parameter into bootargs to boot 2008.12
 from SD. After a couple attempts, I had too many entries in the u-boot,
 and wanted to erase them all, so I used the defaultenv command in
 u-boot to reset them to the beginning. The beginning I think it's not
 a working environment.
 Now the environment is messed and I can't boot from NAND, only from NOR,
 even if I want to use internal flash and not SD.
 
 re-flashing the bootloader does not change the environment.
 
 Could somebody point me to a saved environment file somewhere? or, could
 anybody please upload a working environment into the wiki?
 
 

I've found this useful on multiple occasions -

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#What_if_I_borked_my_bootloader_environment_and_don.27t_get_a_prompt_anymore.3F

To reset uboot environments. You can also tweak the environment.in file for
stuff like large kernels, or (I guess) different menu entries.

HTH
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Re: How do you like to read a phone number?

2008-12-31 Thread Gothnet



Stroller-2 wrote:
 
 
 I was on the phone to an Indian call centre a while back and was very  
 frustrated by the way the speaker read my number back to me - they  
 can't even speak English phone numbers correctly! I fumed, but on  
 reflection I realised that many native English speakers read their  
 numbers differently to the way I do, too. It can make it quite  
 difficult to recognise the same number, if it is presented differently.
 
 Stroller.
 
 

Not only that, but it depends on the number. My mobile number has a lot of
repetition so I tend to say Oh triple seven, double X, Y, double Z, A,B

Sometimes people don't get that, so I fall back to Oh triple 7 X, XYZ,
ZAB. However if someone reads my number back to me like that it takes more
effort to parse than the first format. Maybe I'm just weird.


And another thing, I may have exited my 20s this year but I'm not *that*
old!

;)
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Re: How do you like to read a phone number?

2008-12-30 Thread Gothnet



Stroller-2 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Note, however, that I would most always use 0207 or 0208 xxx yyy  
 for London numbers - I personally would not use 020, or group the  
 7 or 8 with the next set of digits. This is probably because I  
 remember when they changed London numbers from 01 to 020 and then  
 subsequently added the 7  8 depending upon whether the  
 destination was in inner- or outer-London respectively.
 
 Stroller.
 

I would likewise, but you need your memory checked :)

It went 01, 071/081, 0171/0181 then 0207/0208. BT changed the London codes
so many times in the 80s and 90s.
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Re: Getting rid of Android

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet



Vasili Sviridov wrote:
 
 Not sure what has changed, but when I do dfu-util -l from both NOR and 
 NAND uBoot i get this
 
 Found Runtime [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=3, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name=USB 
 Device Firmware Upgrade
 
 and thats the only line in there.
 
 So i'm currently not even able to update the bootloader (as i hoped 
 that'll allow me to see the rest of the partitions).
 
 Vasili
 
 

You can't even update?

That sounds pretty bad. If you get that from both NAN and NOR then you've
got problems. I was going to suggest that maybe you follow the  What if I
borked my bootloader environment and don't get a prompt anymore?
instructions here:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader

but if you get that from both then... Are you still running uboot or did you
switch to the new thing?
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Re: Pulster offer - Freerunner 299 eur

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet


Well, due to the current exchange rate (my government have screwed up,
royally), youmay be better off ordering from truebox.co.uk, where the
Freerunner is £272 or ~277 EUR.

My poor poor savings, and I was planning to emigrate. Damn you Gordon
Brown
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Re: How do you like to read a phone number?

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet



George Brooke wrote:
 
 On Monday 29 December 2008 14:16:15 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
 
 1234 5678 (call from the 02 area code - i.e. NSW only)
 I may be wrong but (at least in UK) you don't need to worry about the
 local 
 version of the number as mobiles need the full version with area code.
 
 solar.george
 

You're not wrong. I can't remember the last time I dialled a number without
an area code, even when I've been in the same area.

And yes, I'm pretty sure mobiles need the area code regardless.

One thing that's been missing on a few phones (but is now fixed on others)
that is useful is the ability to treat (where As are area code :

0 ##

and

+44 ##

As the same number, when things like lookups occur, so that if you've
entered someone's number in National format, but the network reports it to
your phone in international format, it behaves the same.

Similarly with dialling, whether I enter the number in national or
international format it ought to use the full international number under the
covers, so I don't get stuck re-entering numbers when I'm on holiday.
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Re: Getting rid of Android

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet



Well, if you can get sensible stuff out of u-boot then I suggest using the
devirginator thing on the link I sent earlier to repare the uboot
environmen. Then you should get back to a useful state.

I used it to tweak the kernel partition size on the internal flash, so if
(as I think you said before) you've got messed up partitions on the internal
memory then it could well be the uboot environment that needs fixing.

Can't hurt anyway, I wouldn't have thought. If the partition stuff is messed
up then this should fix it and allow you to reflash with images as normal.

Should fix your menu too, I also used it to fix the stuff that had been
altered by the debian set up script.

HTH


Apologies if this gets to the list twice, my first attempt doesn't seem to
have got through properly.



Vasili Sviridov wrote:
 
 Well, here's the situation.
 
 I can power up into NAND or NOR uBoot. Option to boot from SD is 
 available to me. If i do screen /dev/ttyACM0 on the host machine I get 
 the bootloader command prompt and can run those commands (e.g. i can see 
 the partition lists for both NOR and NAND).
 
 So it's not a full brick yet. However after several previous reflash 
 attempts i'm pretty sure that Android installation is corrupted, as I 
 can no longer boot into it.
 
 There's still a possibility of booting from SD card into a regular moko 
 environment (one of) and maybe flashing from there... At least I hope 
 that it will work.
 If not - i'll be looking for a person with a debug board in Vancouver :D
 
 Vasili.
 
 

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Re: Getting rid of Android

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet


Vasili Sviridov wrote:
 
 Will it still work w/o debug board? All i got is the USB cable connection.
 
 Vasili
 

yeah, me too :)

Worked just fine. Follow the instructions on that page - 

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#What_if_I_borked_my_bootloader_environment_and_don.27t_get_a_prompt_anymore.3F
 

Apply a little common sense and edit some of the files if you're not trying
to achieve a complete reset of the uboot env (though I think you are) and it
should be.

I'm not saying that this is definitely your problem, but it sounds like it
to me, and I don't think it can actually hurt your phone right now either.
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Re: Getting rid of Android

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet



Gothnet wrote:
 
 
 Vasili Sviridov wrote:
 
 Will it still work w/o debug board? All i got is the USB cable
 connection.
 
 Vasili
 
 
 yeah, me too :)
 
 Worked just fine. Follow the instructions on that page - 
 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#What_if_I_borked_my_bootloader_environment_and_don.27t_get_a_prompt_anymore.3F
  
 
 Apply a little common sense and edit some of the files if you're not
 trying to achieve a complete reset of the uboot env (though I think you
 are) and it should be.
 
 I'm not saying that this is definitely your problem, but it sounds like it
 to me, and I don't think it can actually hurt your phone right now either.
 


Though if it is your partition table that's b0rked then you may want to edit
the environment.in file too, I found it pretty easy to read.

It would be nice for an actual OM dev or representative to chime in here and
tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree


Have a play I guess. 
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Re: Pulster offer - Freerunner 299 eur

2008-12-29 Thread Gothnet



arne anka wrote:
 
 Price Truebox is 272 GBP + 15% VAT + 40 shipping = 405 eur
 
 with eur:gbp at almost 1:1 it is actually more like 360 eur ...
 
 Price Pulster is 299 eur incl. VAT + 15 shipping = 314 eur
 
 ... nevertheless it costs more than yours ;-)
 
 

I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but the truebox price
includes VAT, I bought mine from them at that price back in the summer.

Unless somehow I managed to avoid paying VAT or just forgot to look at
the actual price... weird.

OK, having looked at their website it seems I'm just ignorant.

299 EUR including taxes is a great deal from pulster!
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Re: Stage of GTA03 development?

2008-12-24 Thread Gothnet



rakshat hooja wrote:
 
 
 Also if there are reports of 3G dongles working well with the Freerunner,
 please post them on this list/ wiki. Resellers can start stocking them if
 the demand is there.
 
 Rakshat
 
 

AAH!

I don't want to have to have a dongle, probably with a separate contract, in
order to use 3G from my phone. That is the worst possible outcome for an
openmoko data connection.

I want my phone to BE my 3G dongle, so I have a decent smartphone with a
good connection speed, good 3G coverage for calls AND can use the connection
from my laptop, preferably via bluetooth.

Screw it, I'll buy a mass produced android next time.
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Re: Stage of GTA03 development?

2008-12-24 Thread Gothnet



Sargun Dhillon wrote:
 
 Additionally, why are we expecting 3G from OM, they are having a hard
 time getting a phone right. Why are we holding them to the same
 standards as Apple, HTC, etc... Apple can't get 3G in the iPhone for
 two years.
 

For which they were heavily criticised because smartphones (and not so smart
phones) in Europe had had 3G for years.
3G is not a special feature any more, it's pretty basic in most handsets.

The FR, with it's all-touchscreen interface and open nature *could* be
forgiven for not having 3G. It's a shortcoming, but it's forgiveable when so
much of the rest was at least near the state of the art - Linux, GPS, uSDHC
etc.

If 03 is released in a year or so without 3G it will have fallen way behind,
especially as the touch screen control is no longer unusual.

If the hardware is fixed at this point then, well, sorry, but OM ought to
revise it.
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Re: Stage of GTA03 development?

2008-12-24 Thread Gothnet



rakshat hooja wrote:
 
 
 I am talking about GTA 02 and people who already own it and need to use
 3G.
 GTA 02 does not have 3G built in
 
 sorry if if this was not clear in my mail
 
 Rakshat
 

Sorry, thought you were suggesting it as a get-out-of-jail-free for OM and
3G on the 03. If you need it now then sure, that might be an idea.
Personally, my focus on the FR is having a phone that works...
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Re: Getting rid of Android

2008-12-24 Thread Gothnet



Orlando-13 wrote:
 
 I Hate to tell you this, but you can try to format your sd card (just to
 fat32 or ext3) in another Linux box. Then, install another Linux distro in
 your openmoko...
 
 The problem as I see it is that your sd card has a lot of partitions right
 ?
 
 -Orlando.
 
 

Probably not actually, android (AFAICT) must be installed on the internal
flash, not the SD, so content of the SD card is pretty irrelevant.

I don't think I've ever tried to go back from android to another distro on
my FR, so I can't help with the original question either.

/I'm helping!

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Re: Stage of GTA03 development?

2008-12-23 Thread Gothnet



Helge Hafting wrote:
 
 Making a good small lens is not a problem, a good small sensor is.
 Japanese tourists may be satisfied, but perhaps they just aren't that
 good photographers. Small-sensor images can be reasonable under ideal
 lighting conditions, but hopeless for most other cases. But then,
 tourists go where the sun is. 
 

To use an internet cliche you're doing it wrong. Most people aren't good
photographers, Japanese or otherwise. Neither do they care. Look at the
sales of disposable cameras before digital came along.

The quality of photography is just not the point. You want a decent
resolution, sure, but if they come out a bit blurry or badly lit? Who cares?
I'm snapping stuff that doesn't matter but might be cute if it comes out ok,
the dog looking at me funny, the family in front of an amusing road sign, a
shop with an amusing name, some people at a birthday part in a
restaurant In fact the act of taking the photo is probably more
important than the result most of the time.


To others arguing about cameras and no camera, I can't have one at work -
please recognise that you are a tiny, tiny minority. Many more people don't
care about cameras in their phones, many more do, but those for whom it's
actually an obstruction are really an insignificant market sector.

And the I just want a phone that works and does nothing but make calls
crowd won't be looking at Neo anyway.

As to whether camera or 3g should be a priority? Both, IMHO.

3G is an absolute must for the gta03, without it it's just a phone with a
lousy connection most of the time. Or would be if I could be bothered to try
getting GPRS working...
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Re: [Android] koolu first beta release

2008-12-22 Thread Gothnet



Andreas Wallin wrote:
 
 I tried it,
 Still the keyboard does not work in all text dialogs, wifi doesn't work,
 
 I cant lock screen, and suspend still doesn't work, GSM seems to work.
 
 I reflashed my openmoko with qt after 1 days use, When suspend,lock
 screen and soft keyboard works i will give android a new try,
 
 greetings !
 
 

Which kernel did you try?

with the tracking kernel (from Sean's directory or elsewhere) I could get
suspend and resume working to some extent with Sean's image. Haven't tried
koolu's one though, gave up on FR again about the 6th of december when
android decided that registering on GSM was just not going to happen any
more.
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Re: No more optimization team

2008-12-18 Thread Gothnet



Olivier Migeot wrote:
 
 Community, you have this Openmoko company who is still working on
 their product some months after it's been released. Granted, the first
 release was nowhere near astounding. But in closed world developement,
 who could claim such dedication? ;) 
 

In a closed world OM would have been panned, the devices returned and
probably have been forced out of business by now.

Openness is great. FOSS is great. Working base functionality is more
important though. After trying to live with the freerunner and OM2008 for a
month I bought another phone. My FR is also doing a good impression of a
brick most of the time.
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Re: [debian] installation

2008-12-12 Thread Gothnet



Vinzenz Hersche wrote:
 
 
 hey tony,
 
 your first partition on the sd-card should be fat-formated. 
 
 

Not if you update your NAND uboot to a recent (i.e sometime in the last four
months or so) version. Then ext2 is fine. I've had mine running this way.

More recent uboot's also have some better charging code and other fixes,
it's probably worth flashing one if you're still on the factory-shipped
version.

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Re: [debian] installation

2008-12-12 Thread Gothnet



Tony Berth wrote:
 
 Having a OM2008.9 jffs on FR, I did run 'install.sh all'. I did shutdown
 the
 device and when rebooted I choose the SD card to boot. That should do the
 trick!
 

No, no it won't, uyou need to follow the section below -

Adjusting your uBoot environment

Go back to the wiki and either run that OR use a fat filesystem for the
install. You will need to do one or the other or it won't work.
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Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone

2008-12-11 Thread Gothnet



Didier Raboud wrote:
 
 arne anka wrote:
 
 the facts known about google's remote control of the android g1
 (privately
 owned devoces, mind you!) are absolutely horrible, and i don't want to
 support any effort in that way.
 
 +1 from me too.
 
 Don't use Big Evil Google !
 
 

I don't want them having my data, it's true, I don't use their services
(other than search) because I don't believe in giving control to third
parties.

However, in this case, they have provided an open source mobile phone
operating environment that is responsive, pretty and provides a hardware
agnostic application environment. With a little bit of market penetration
(and there are already many vendors looking with phones in the works) a
software community far wider than a single device could spring up.

And with it being OSS I can make sure the version I run is not subject to
any google control.

I agree that google are currently in a moral grey area, (and outright wrong
about controlling people's phones) but I don't think android should be
dismissed for this.
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Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)

2008-12-10 Thread Gothnet



John Lee wrote:
 
 I shouldn't say gta03, I should say the next generation software we
 are going to use.  Since people will switch to that software with
 their freerunner (gta02), it makes more sense to put more resource
 to work on that.  My writing wasn't accurate enough.  Sorry about that.
 
 - John
 


John (and Marek),

Thanks for explaining that, I have no particular attachment to any one
software distribution, only an interest in getting a stable, responsive
phone. To this end I'm encouraged that more effort is going into the FSO as
it seems like 2008.X is something of a sideline now.

And yes, the use of the term gta03 to refer to the newer software stack IS
confusing!
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Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone

2008-12-10 Thread Gothnet

I agree with Rui, and as a Software Engineer with about a decade of C under
my belt I should be able to help out. It's just getting motivated and
getting started that are the problems here

The nice thing about Android is that it seems like the interface stuff is
basically there, it's sharp and responsive (compared to the last time I used
2008.X or FDOM, which was October) and it just seems like a much 'nicer'
environment.

Problems I have with getting started are I wouldn't know how to begin
debugging, I don't have a qemu environment set up and the non-POSIX nature
of the android setup is a little odd.

The low-effort option for me seems to be to wait and see what koolu come up
with...
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Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)

2008-12-09 Thread Gothnet



John Lee wrote:
 
 Olv is having kernel fun now, but since it's gta03 related, you probably
 won't see him a lot on the public kernel list.
 
 ...
 
 OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia is
 fairly limited.
 

I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing on
gta03? Already?

It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a
working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an abandonment
of freerunner owners.

With the software in the state it was when the 02 came out, I certainly
won't be buying a 03 until OM proves it can actually make something that's a
useful product rather than just a public alpha. this goes double if the
alpha product is essentially left for dead without ever being fully working.
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Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)

2008-12-09 Thread Gothnet



polz wrote:
 
 
 
 That's just common sense. If you want a working phone, just stick to the 
 Freerunner, maybe try and help get it into a working state. Once the base 
 system is working, you can always buy a GTA03 to get some new, faster,
 shinier 
 hardware.
 

Yes, but I'm wondering who they think is going to buy the 03 when the user
experience for the 02 has been so poor and it looks like development effort
is being shifted off it when the phone is still basically in alpha testing.




 Don't worry, the software on your phone is free, it'll stay supported as
 long 
 as there's at least one user willing to keep building images/packages for
 it. 
 You're likely to run out of replacement parts or break it unintentionally
 way 
 before then.
 

That's not in any way the same as having paid development effort to get it
up to a base working state. 
And it's not support I'm worried about, it's the absolute basic
functionality and reliability that's at issue here.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet

Got the thing booting, finally, by using my universal charger. I guess the
problem now is that when it gets too low it'll just shut itself down, even
with the charger attached.

I'm running uImage-tracking and the rootfs with the keyboard now.


Rui Castro wrote:
 
 
 My keyboard has some obvious problems, the letter/number/symbols keys
 are too small 
 
 

If you have fingernails the buttons just about work, could definitely be
wider though.



Rui Castro wrote:
 
 
 I have been able to boot with kernels uImage-android and
 uImage-tracking, but both are very unstable. The suspend/resume don't
 work reliably in any of them. With uImage-tracking, the only one I
 could get to work for some time, bluethooth works, gsm works
 sometimes, wifi works but it doesn't detect my wireless network (WPA)
 and it doesn't shutdown.
 
 

I noticed the same stuff, and in addition to this the UI seems less
responsive than it was in previous releases. The smoothness of bringing up
the app menu is just not quite as good as before, which is a shame. The
suspend/resume is better than last time around, and any keyboard is a good
start, but we're not quite there yet. OTOH, it seems to be a matter of
glueing the firmware to the hardware successfully, rather than fundamental
problems.


Rui Castro wrote:
 
 
 The workaround to boot the uImage-tracking kernel from uBoot (setenv
 bootcmd setenv ... ; saveenv) works, but when I poweroff neo and try
 to boot again it doesn't work anymore; I have to do the hack again.
 Maybe I'm doing something stupid here. It's the first time I mess with
 uBoot shell.
 
 

I did things the long way round, downloading the uboot env with dfu-util,
editing it and then re-uploading (see previous post on what to do with
borked uboot env).

Mostly did this because neither of my debian systems at home wanted to bring
up any /dev/ttyACM  or /dev/ttyUSB or whatever interfaces and I couldn't
access the shell. Have booted this way several times, so you may want to
give it a try.


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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet



Hire wrote:
 
 Someone can explain me how I can edit the uboot env? Because I did it:
 
 bootcmd=
   setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} ${mtdparts};
   nand read.e 0x3200 kernel 0x30;
   bootm 0x3200
 
 But it doesn't boot. It does the same issue: can't find an image kernel.
 
 I have edited only the environment.in and not env.in 
 

Oh - that's what I did, in NAND uboot, download the env using dfu-util, grab
the devirginator toolset and environment.in, change that single character
in environment.in from a 2 to a 3 in the bootcmd section, run the
environment generator and then upload the new env.out file.

Then I re-uploaded the kernel and rootfs using dfu-util and it worked
fine. That's all the help I can be.




I've also discovered a new feature in the image since my last post. Plugging
it into my windows box to charge makes the box bluescreen. Not only when
booted, but if it's plugged in then the OS bluescreens differently during
startup. Yay!
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet



Cédric Berger wrote:
 
 
 But I made a call and while on call I could not get the keyboard !
 Menu button brings special call menu, and there is not the keybord
 button :-(
 I am afraid that it could be the same for incoming calls. So you could
 not answer.
 
 So no access to volume buttons. And DTMF with Phone application
 numerical keyboard does not work...
 


I'll give incoming calls a go with real hardware slightly later, but from
what you're saying you wouldn't be able to hang up!

Still, progress eh?
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet



Cédric Berger wrote:
 
 
 Well hang up is possible since there is an hang up button on the
 standard phone menu. (press menu button during call to see it)
 
 The problem is to respond to a call...
 


No problem at all, just made and received calls between my cheapo sony
ericcson and the freerunner running the 2.4MB (tracking) kernel and the
latest rootfs.

Incoming call gets displayed, click power button for menu, click button for
keyboard, click button for pick up.

Would it be better if the dialer app had on-screen buttons for pick up or
reject? Certainly.

But Rui's keyboard works fine.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet

Actually, when I say fine, I mean that I could pick up.

To hang up at the end of the call I still had to bring up the phone menu.


Right, next test - text messages.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet



Gothnet wrote:
 
 Actually, when I say fine, I mean that I could pick up.
 
 To hang up at the end of the call I still had to bring up the phone menu.
 
 
 Right, next test - text messages.
 


Which I can't do because now it's refusing to register. Except when I call
it the Network think's it's registered and I get ringtone.

Hmmm.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-04 Thread Gothnet



Levy Abinajm Melero Sant'Anna wrote:
 
 
 
 Nice, I will test this last image this weekend.
 
 Thank you,
 Levy.
 
 
 

don't get too excited, after registering for the first 24 hours, it now
refuses to. I think the unregistered but still ringing thing was a network
glitch. Since then, no registration despite several reboots. There's a GSM
bug in there somewhere that spoils the call answering feature.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-03 Thread Gothnet



Warren Baird wrote:
 
 
 I agree Android looks like it has a lot of promise - but if you want a
 functioning phone today - I'd suggest trying out QtExtended 4.4.2 - it
 doesn't give you much more than basic phone functionality, but I've been
 using it as my day-to-day phone for a month now, and am generally pretty
 happy with it...
 
 Warren
 

Qtopia is one of the two things I didn't try, SHR being the other. I gave up
on the rest because of the unresponsive interfaces, poor battery life,
terrible remote echo (tried everything I could find), refusal to wake up in
a timely fashion on incoming calls etc. I was also discouraged by the
prominence of we should work on stuff for GTA03 comments on the lists.

I now have a cheap sony-ericsson for the sake of my sanity, so I'll wait
until android or other distro can provide a bit more than basic phone
functions, or at least do it better than what I have. Android looks like it
could be the quickest route to solving most of the issues and the echo was
gone straight away. i know I ought to get off my a*se and help, but after
the dayjob I don't have much appetite for coding and debugging right now.

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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-03 Thread Gothnet



Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
 
 
 Sean,
 
 which uImage should we take? uImage-android or uImage-tracking?
 
 Franky
 
 

Take a look here -

http://n2.nabble.com/andy-tracking-kernel--td1609293.html

for details on the kernel difference. and what you'll need to do to u-boot
to get the tracking kernel to boot.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-03 Thread Gothnet



Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
 
 which uImage should we take? uImage-android or uImage-tracking?
 


OK, for the hard of thinking (amongst whom I count myself) I got the
tracking kernel booting by following the what if I borked my bootloader
instructions from here -

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader

But editing the bootcmd entry to read a larger kernel nand read.e
0x3200 kernel 0x30; then flashing the kernel and rootfs image as
usual. Unfortunately the time I took to do this seems to have run down the
freerunner's battery, and now android boots and immdeiately says shutting
down because of low power. It doesn't do it though.

I also can't seem to find my universal charger any more, dammit, so I'm not
quite sure what to do. Does the battery charge whilst in u-boot menu?
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-02 Thread Gothnet



Cédric Berger wrote:
 
 For now, most wanted for me is a keyboard, and internet connectivity
 (90% off android applications need internet access !).
 Wifi does not work, GPRS either (for me at least), and I did not
 manage to have internet access via USB  (though I have read this may
 work ? Success anyone ?).
 

Can't quite get there, I have a missing link. I can get into a shell on the
freerunner and see the ifconfig info for usb0 -

usb0: ip 192.168.0.202 mask 255.255.255.0 flags [up broadcast running
multicast]

And ping the notebook on 192.168.0.200. Adding a route with -

route add default gw 192.168.0.200 dev usb0

Once that's done I can ping the public IP address of the notebook as well. I
think there's some sort of firewall stuff on this machine (work laptop)
that's preventing me from forwarding packets, but the main problem I have is
that there's no /etc/resolv.conf so I'm not sure how to add DNS info. I
could add the file and try that I s'pose.

Also the command line ssh (dropbear client) chokes because it can't get
random data.
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First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-02 Thread Gothnet

Improvements since the first release are evident, the graphics are now pretty
glitch free where they used to occasionally flicker.

However, since the last image I flashed, bluetooth has stopped working, I
now just get a message saying Unable to turn on Bluetooth.

Wifi claims to turn on but fails to scan. Can't remember if this is better
or worse than before.
No keyboard, will attempt to find a way to install the one mentioned here: 

http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1583918

Err... does anyone know if suspend/resume works yet?

So anyway, we're still a little way off a useable phone, IMHO. I'm happy to
be contradicted here though.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-02 Thread Gothnet

Yup, DNS is the issue now.

Attached to another machine I can ping 66.249.91.147 but lookup of
www.google.com fails. To create a resolv.conf i had to remount the root
filesystem as rw with -

mount -o remount,rw -t jffs2 /dev/root /

But it didn't help. So, yes, net access over USB but no DNS.
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Re: First impressions on new Android rootfs

2008-12-02 Thread Gothnet

Please forgive me for replying to so many of my own emails...

Apparently the answer is setprop net.usb0.dns1 $IP_ADDRESS

Though I haven't made it do anything because the browser won't start,
there's no keypad to enter mail settings and the only command line tool I
can find (ping) doesn't seem to get the setting. Guess I need a keyboard.
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Re: [Android] OnScreen Keyboard

2008-11-27 Thread Gothnet



Sean McNeil wrote:
 
 Excellent. Then we can just include it within the image as it won't 
 affect operations otherwise.
 

Got any sort of ETA on an updated image?
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Re: Android rootfs image?

2008-11-25 Thread Gothnet

If you can wait a week or so Koolu - http://www.koolu.com/ - have promised to
release their version of Android for Freerunner in the first week of
December.

I hope that means they'll release it for general use and not just for their
customers. I also hope they release the source code for any changes they
make back into the wider android community. I guess we'll see.
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Re: Android rootfs image?

2008-11-25 Thread Gothnet



Jeroen van de Nieuwenhof wrote:
 
 
 Where does it say that it will be released in the first week of december?
 
 


I think they made an announcement or press release or some such. It's
covered in a bunch of online blogs and news sources -

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Koolu-Support-Android-Platform-Openmokos/story.aspx?guid={6A22E64A-35D7-421A-8F28-B92492742C55}
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9302153625.html
http://androidguys.com/?p=2870
http://androidcommunity.com/beta-release-of-android-for-openmokos-freerunner-handset-available-the-first-week-of-december-20081120/


They all sound quite similar and you're right, there is no sign of it on the
koolu site, so we can only hope for now.

I too am interested in what they've done about a keyboard. From the animated
image on their site it looks like they've solved the call answering problem
by putting in an on-screen button for it, which looks good to me.
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Re: Survey about the Touchscreen

2008-11-21 Thread Gothnet

Larger screen.

More real estate for a keyboard, basically, the current ones are just on the
boundary of unusable with a finger and anything bigger would take up too
much space; you need a comfortable amount of space for the application and
the on screen input.
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Re: [Android] Soft keyboard

2008-11-20 Thread Gothnet



Tom R wrote:
 
 I'm not familiar with the android environment so here are a couple of 
 questions
 do I need the android SDK to install this keyboard? if I don't need it
 then,
 how do I ssh into android once it's running? I've tried the usual 
 ifconfig usb0 x.x.x.x  ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] but the connection is 
 refused.
 if i dont need to ssh to install it, then how to do it?
 
 regards
 Tom
 

I thought it was worth mentioning here that adb is also what you need to get
a shell on your android-freerunner.

ADBHOST=192.168.0.202 adb shell

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Re: [Android] Soft keyboard

2008-11-19 Thread Gothnet



Walter Chang wrote:
 
 i can't wait till q1 of next year for google to come out with a soft
 keyboard so i made one.  I used the copy-and-paste functionality on
 Android
 so the keyboard works with other apps without changing them.  to download:
 http://code.google.com/p/netgents/downloads/list and download
 qad-keyboard.apk.  for instructions on installation and usage:
 http://code.google.com/p/netgents/wiki/QadKeyboardHowto .
 
 enjoy,
 

Fantastic news, quick question - does this keyboard allow us to answer calls
at all?



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Re: Buzzing (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)

2008-11-17 Thread Gothnet



Iain B. Findleton wrote:
 
 the main issue with optimization efforts is whether they can proceed
 faster than the
 introduction of better hardware. If a 400 Mhz machine is too slow,
 will a 1 Ghz machine be fast enough? Will anything be fast enough?
 Apparently, from the history of desktops, the answer is no!
 
 

Having seen the way the device responds under android compared to the way it
responds under OM2008, I'd say they have a way to go on current hardware. I
guess I'll try OM2008.11 at some point and see if that's caught up.
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Re: Calling interested Glamo OpenGL developers (was: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)

2008-11-16 Thread Gothnet


Lally Singh wrote:
 
 
 Just fair warning here.  As I don't think OM will use the Glamo in
 future devices, doing the right thing isn't as critical as normal
 software projects...
 
 -- 
 H. Lally Singh
 Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
 Virginia Tech
 
 

Doing the right this IS critical to support the freerunner, going forward.
I, personally, get rather worried by all this talk of supporting future
revisions and not putting in too much freerunner-specific energy because it
won't be loing until GTA03 is here

If OM drop efforts to make 02 better, then they'll probably have a lot of
folks that just won't buy the 03 because they're angry.
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Re: Buzzing (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)

2008-11-14 Thread Gothnet

To add my two pence-worth about the joke comment -

I have a very high tolerance to stuff not working. or not working smoothly.
Most of my computers are broken in some way at any given time. However, when
forced to rely on it for a month, even I got annoyed with the freerunner
running OM software.

It really needs work on the basics. I mean, responsiveness is not there,
interface is dodgy (the end call button being in the same spot as the
accept call button, and being unresponsive, made me hang up s many
calls). Echo on calls, battery life...

Also, I know everyone loves X, but is it really the best choice for a low
powered device that needs a responsive UI?

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that whilst I love the ideals, it's
basically become a toy rather than a phone, until such time as android is
available. And I feel really bad for saying that because I so want a small,
community involved, properly open platform to be a reality, and I know you
guys are doing a lot of work, it's just not ready for prime-time yet. I
think maybe I had the wrong impression about the state of the software when
I bought it.
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Re: Buzzing (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)

2008-11-14 Thread Gothnet


Jacob Peterson wrote:
 
 I know the buzzing issue had quite a bit of attention from the Openmoko
 team, judging from watching the traffic on the Hardware and Kernel mailing
 lists.  So I don't think they have given up on that, but it doesn't seem
 like there is any set solution for current devices, only anecdotal reports
 of alsa volume tweaks.
 

I've not actually suffered the infamous buzzing, my problem was that, mostly
on incoming calls, the other party had their words echoed back to them at
full volume a second or so after they spoke. One of the 2008 updates fixed
it, but then it came back in the next one. I've tried using various folks'
gsmhandset.state files to no avail, in fact some of them killed sound
altogether. Android doesn't seem to suffer from it, but of course I've only
been able to make outgoing calls.
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Re: [android] new version with page flipping corrected.

2008-11-12 Thread Gothnet

Excellent.

I've flashed this now and the screen flashing has indeed gone and it's still
just as responsive as before.

I was able to activate bluetooth and detect the device with other systems.
I could activate GPS (apparently) but there's no GPS app I could find on the
default image. S'pose I ought to hunt one down.

Still no way to answer calls or type a text message, but I understand that
will come next year from Google themselves.

Anyone got GPRS going yet?
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Re: [android] Answer calll problems

2008-11-06 Thread Gothnet

Well colour me impressed. I've had a play with android on the Freerunner and
(no disrespect to the openmoko guys) it's renewed my faith that the device
will some day be useable as a phone.

Managed to get it running, import contacts from the SIM and make calls, with
acceptable volume and none of the echo that the OM distros suffered from.

There's a lot that's not working (receive calls for instance) but this looks
really good guys. Kudos and thanks.
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Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience

2008-10-17 Thread Gothnet

Hi all,

My thoughts on this (as a software dev that hasn't yet got into the
freerunner software development, despite best intentions) -

1. Basic phone functions:

It needs to work as a phone, currently it doesn't wake up from suspend in
time for more than 2 rings before the other party is diverted to voicemail.
The sound quality is terrible and usually echos back at the other party.

2. Battery life:

The battery in the gta02 is not a small capacity battery, far from it in
fact, why does it only last a few hours?
At best I get about 12 hours out of it.

3. Stability

Resuming from suspend sometimes just doesn't happen, and nothing I do wakes
it up.


Given 2 and 3, a quicker boot time would be nice, but if we could fix the
things that mean I have to boot it so often it would be helpful.

The only other thing that springs to mind is that it would also be good if
the settings (screen brightness etc) were stored somewhere so I don't have
to redo them every boot.

As far as I'm concerned, anything else is just candy. Other functions (GPS,
GPRS, WiFi etc etc) would be nice and should be expected as part of any
decent phone package, but right now the absolute basics (and I mean absolute
basics) need work.

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Re: [debian] going to install - hints?

2008-10-02 Thread Gothnet



Davide Scaini wrote:
 
 Do you have any hints before starting to have a nice installation?
 

Sorry for the delay, but better late than never!

go here - https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_Freerunner

And update u-boot by going to the section marked Flashing the boot loader
to the NAND. You'll want this because u-boot has improved and because the
older u-boot couldn't boot the kernel from ext2.
You may also want to get a program called neocon - it allows you to halt the
phone in the bootloader phase, giving you long to kick off dfu-util to
update uboot.

Then just follow the wiki - http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner

It took me a couple of hours but all worked pretty well. I gave up on debian
pretty quickly because I stopped getting any GSM signal/registration after a
while. I liked the zhone interface though, and it seemed more responsive.
Also having the full apt repository is amazing.

It's now FDOM for me, though as and when debian/FSO is known to be more
stable I might switch again. I like debian, and the size of the community
ensures that information is easy to find and community support done well.


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Re: So what should I learn and develop for?

2008-07-31 Thread Gothnet



Matthew Lane wrote:
 
 It looks like future frameworks are heading towards the ASU or FSO?  I'm 
 not really sure, although ASU seems to be a merge of 2007.2 and 
 Qtopia, so perhaps that direction is what you're looking for?
 

Perhaps, though I have my doubts about running a full X server on neo
hardware, Qtopia's framebuffer approach might be a little more resource
friendly.

Guess I'll have to try a couple of them.
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Best UK data plan?

2008-07-30 Thread Gothnet

Hi all,

I'm expecting my FreeRunner in the next day or so (thanks Truebox) and was
wondering if any other UK users had come across any good data tariffs?

I've got myself a SIM card from T-Mobile with their Solo 15 package, and
managed to persuade the guy in the shop to try selling it to me with their
Mobile Broadband Plus add-on. 12.50 for 3G a month unrestricted use. This
combination's not on their lists or their website and head office said it
couldn't be done, but for once computer says yes in store.

It's only a month's rolling contract so - anyone found a better one?
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Re: Best UK data plan?

2008-07-30 Thread Gothnet

My bad - I meant 3GB a month, unrestricted on what you can do with it.

I don't think it's only 3G traffic, at least I couldn't find any reference
to anything differentiating which technology you could use. The only plan
differences I could see were whether you were allowed to use the phone as a
modem for a laptop (Mobile Broadband) or not (Web'n'Walk).

Guess we'll see when the first bill comes in!



arne anka wrote:
 
 Mobile Broadband Plus add-on. 12.50 for 3G a month unrestricted use.
 
 would it be technically possible to use a 3G data plan with a 2.5G device?
 3G is umts, 2.5G gprs -- i would imagine t-online does not allow you to  
 use a umts plan with gprs.
 
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So what should I learn and develop for?

2008-07-30 Thread Gothnet

As a newcomer to the Openmoko scene, I've started to notice that there are a
lot of different firmwares out there, some from Openmoko and some from other
places.

I'm a C programmer by trade with almost a decade of commercial experience,
mostly in server/backend stuff. I want to start looking at Openmoko and the
FreeRunner but  I'm now not sure which frameworks, firmwares and library
sets I ought to be looking at.

What's the stable openmoko distribution?
Should I start working against Qtopia as it's got a wider device base and
(probably) a larger community?

I must admit I like the idea of making debian workable, but from the
distributions page that looks like it has a long way to go before I'd get a
workable phone out of it.

What's the state of play guys?
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