Re: Will Openmoko ever see the light of day? Was Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics
Attila Csipa wrote: On Wednesday 13 June 2007 16:26, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Gibson Musical Instruments, where we were designing what was effectively a custom PDA (don't ask.) guitar tuner? There were several delays, And wait, and wait. And it never shows up. Then you get back on the phone and eventually you find another parts distributor. Since then, I've started taking delivery dates with a pretty large grain of salt. I have a story about an embedded automation device where in the end heavily modded Buffalo and Linksys wireless routers were used. Not bc they were all that well suited for the task, but because they were pretty available and had most of the parts already on them. People do funny things to meet deadlines :) parts on them... and the software is mostly done too! This is the only worrisome thing to me. Nobody has seen the software. jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
el jefe delito wrote: I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 Thoughts? We need hardware, (and far better softare), not hype. Comments don't sell phones, applications do. Once we have functional hardware, we can create better software, and the combination of these is far better than any amount of hype or PR. Devices like the FIC Neo1973 can be difficult to engineer, so Sean, we understand. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've not seen any of these devices except in the photos, and I've not seen any video/screen capture of the software in its current state. I understand that this is a first-generation device, and that when the Neo1973 is released that FIC will also be releasing a few additional 'secret' devices. :) If this first-generation phone isn't ready for general use, what is the expected timeline for the next round of devices? Will the second or third generation devices be far superior to the first generation? Or can I expect The idea is for the hardware to be completely ready for general use. However, it won't have wifi. The next release, in a couple of months or so will. The software is a completely seperate question - if you buy the one that's soon to be released, you will be able to install the 'release' software on it when the later hardware is released. running new software on old devices is likely (backward compatibility), but its a mistake if it holds back progress. running old software on new devices is nice to have, but not necessary in an open/free device. In any case, simultaneous GSM + WiFi should work (can you say stompbox?) Simultaneous BT + WiFi doesn't, except where you're either a) willing to put up with the interferce b) running a device where the manufacturer had a clue, and has wired the BT WiFi chipsets to have either not transmit when the other is receiving a packet. (As an optimization, you only have to do this when the WiFi device is running in the 2.4GHz band.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC Approval
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 14:54 -0400, Duncan Hudson wrote: That’s about as far as I bothered reading – I’ll wait until there is an official FIC response in the next 24-48 hours about how they intend to supply orders in the USA before I bother reading any more. The NEO will be FCC certified. I don't think that anyone is questioning whether or not it will be FCC certified - that's required, we all know that. The question is, has the certification process even begun? Hehe...of course. We're almost done. -Sean it will be interesting to see which parts of the FCC application are marked 'proprietary'. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC Approval
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.05.2007 um 04:57 schrieb Joe Friedrichsen: It would be great to know if any of the P0 folks are US-based as well. The majority sound European, save Rod :-) Well, the EU has similar rules but there is no central FCC. It is called CE and the entity (you personally, a distributor, a local operation of a foreign company etc.) importing something has to prove that the rules are ok. For GSM, I think there is even more precise regulation. Otherwise the taxduty authorities can ban it from import and request high penalties. It is even harder for patent infringement claims. During CeBIT there are always some unused booths - because the company trying to show a faked iPod or an MP3 player without paying patent licenses was not able to get the devices through customs... it can get much worse in the EU. You can go to jail for importing a non-CE compliant device. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC Approval
Duncan Hudson wrote: Just read that the iPhone was granted FCC approval. I asked along time ago, has the OpenMoko FCC certification process even begun yet? No FCC approval, no license to sell the product in the US... Its not a license. You can't sell, or offer to sell a device subject to the FCC regs in the US without either marking (in a rules-compliant manner) the FCC compliance information (not all devices are certified), or affixing a label that says, this device is not FCC-certified, and is not offered for sale, in order to even *show* one at a venue such as a trade show. Violation is subject to a fine of up to $10,000 per occurrence. Personally, I get a 'vibe' that Sean doesn't think the phone will sell (at least for a while) in the US... for whatever reason. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC Approval
Jason Elwell wrote: Jim, Question: Do the regulations govern devices that are offered for sale in the US, but not devices that are sold by an off-shore company to people in the US? I was under the impression that any electronic device sold for use in the USA has to be cleared by the FCC. Customs tends to stop them at the border. Nothing prevents you from carrying one (or perhaps two or three) in with you, of course. Technically, its a violation, but you'll never be caught. But if you try to import a box of twenty, US Customs will check them, and you'll need to file the requisite paperwork showing that they do, indeed, conform to FCC regs, including the requisite agency approvals, etc. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FCC Approval
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: For purposes of the regulations, what exactly is a device? If the actual tranceiver is approved (and I assume it is), does that carry approval for a phone using it? http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sun JavaFx
Shawn, I'm more than happy to engage and debate these points, but its likely off-topic (or at least not in scope) for the list (which is about openmoko and/or the community that surrounds openmoko). Topics such as: why is Java slow (and how to construct hw to make it go fast concurrency models (threads or not) programming of same, and Java's lack of a process model aren't related (much) to openmoko, so I suggest we take these off-line, unless 'the list' decides they would rather watch/join the discussion here. (And yes, I agree that I contributed to the discussion going off-track.) The topic of Apple being open or closed, especially as it relates to the iPhone, seems at least peripheral to the discussion here. I think it likely to be mere months before some rudimentary linux kernel is running on the iPhone, and likley less than a year from then until some dedicated group of hackers make the OpenMoko environment run on the iPhone in much the same way that the Mac and the AppleTV, and even the iPod now run specialized linux kernels to 'enable' a degree of openness that Apple expressly did not plan. If OpenMoko is found to be a better environment than (or for) the iPhone (as well as other phones)... success!. If Sun's JavaFX Mobile, well... success! Jim Shawn Rutledge wrote: On 5/10/07, Jim Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: Shawn, I have been very involved in this area at Sun now for a couple of years. Let me add come comments: Hardware accelerated Java is actually fairly common already, at least in the Java ME space using ARM's Jazelle technology. It does have some benefits in very constrained platforms but in general advanced VMs with dynamic adaptive optimizations, compilation, and improved garbage collection perform better than H/W acceleration and at reasonable incremental cost (memory footprint, in particular). I think what we are seeing here is a general trend in the IT industry as general-purpose processors become more and more powerful they displace dedicated hardware solutions because software solutions are more flexible and lower cost. A notable exception, of course, is graphics acelleration but Java implementations typically use those when available. Specifically to Sun's Java chips (picoJava/microJava): I worked on them and the performance was quite good. But it is very hard, if not impossible, to keep up with performance improvements of general purpose processors together with the increasing amount of memory available. That technology evolution relegates Java hardware acceleration to niche status. Many companies have invested in Java H/W acceleration and fell into that trap. It turns out to be difficult to make Java go really fast on specialized hardware. Java wasn't designed to be fast, it was designed to be 'safe' Why is it so hard? What are the tough problems that are always going to be slow? What's wrong with taking some shortcuts, like the way KVM depends on pre-verified bytecodes so that it doesn't have to do the verification at load time? for large groups of programmers to use. You can get single order of magnitude speed-ups for some bytecode streams, but you won't see two. I (too) looked at doing a Java chip (very early, back in 1996 or so). Moore's law continues to march on, only now instead of (super)-linear speed-up on a single core, we're getting multiple cores. Java will be OK with 'multi-core', but won't survive the transition to 'manycore' ( 100 cores), nor will Python, PHP or Perl. This may not matter on a phone platform, but the desktop and server will distance themselves from co-operating sequential processes before too much longer. I think you are saying that the thread model of concurrency has limits, right? Or just that programmers will balk at having to manage hundreds of threads? Well what do you think is the future then, to get more parallelism? The only question is if the rest of the industry 'woke up' enough to see the light of cracking the phone wide-open. If not, they are doomed. Yeah that's a big one. I think Apple's view is that their applications are always best-of-breed anyway, and they can satisfy 90% of the users' needs themselves, so why be open to having third-party security holes, usability problems, bugs and so on, which will sully the reputation of the phone. But I also think a lot of the success of the early Palms was the wide variety of extra software you could install on them. I doubt that Apple will really keep the iPhone closed forever, but we'll see. Nowadays it's not like it was in the Palm era though... there are so many choices for development platform. Java, Brew, Windows Mobile, Palm, Symbian, Linux/QT, Linux/X, etc. Java has not been the unifying force that it should have been. I'm not very optimistic that is suddenly going to happen; the window has probably been missed. But I guess it's worth a try
Re: Sun JavaFx
Sander van Grieken wrote: I think (hope?) it is the new appearance of Savaje platform (+ JavaFX scripting). That's correct. This is going to be very cool stuff. And the Neo is definitely very high on the list of devices I want to see this running on. If I understand correctly, JavaFX Script is going to be open source, but JavaFX Script is not the whole of the 'JavaFX family'. Does this mean there will be non-open sourced parts in the stack necessary to use JavaFX Script? Sun has already said that JavaFX Mobile (the stuff you need for the phone) will be GPLed. So.. no. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sun JavaFx
Sander van Grieken wrote: Sander van Grieken wrote: I think (hope?) it is the new appearance of Savaje platform (+ JavaFX scripting). That's correct. This is going to be very cool stuff. And the Neo is definitely very high on the list of devices I want to see this running on. If I understand correctly, JavaFX Script is going to be open source, but JavaFX Script is not the whole of the 'JavaFX family'. Does this mean there will be non-open sourced parts in the stack necessary to use JavaFX Script? Sun has already said that JavaFX Mobile (the stuff you need for the phone) will be GPLed. So.. no. Ya know, I *knew* that if I didn't support the statement with URLs that someone would get it all wrong. Not you, Sander, (though receiving four copies of your message was a bit much), but the response from Gabriel kinda pissed in my Wheaties. Well, this is not exactly true. Sun indeed said explicitly that JavaFX-Script will be GPLd, but regarding JavaFX-Mobile, I read the following : JavaFX Mobile, Sun's software system for mobile devices, is available via OEM license to carriers, handset manufacturers and others seeking a branded relationship with consumers source : http://www.sun.com/software/javafx/index.jsp Of course it is, since Sun owns the Copyright, they can distribute non-GPL versions of the code to those who want them (and are willing to pay.) MySQL does this too. OTOH: Sun will ship a pre-integrated, GPL-licensable, Linux- and Java-based operating system software reference design for mobile phones, it announced at its JavaOne conference today in San Francisco. All JavaFX products will be available under the GNU GPL, Sun said. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7539760574.html --- Sun also announced that the company is planning on open sourcing JavaFX Script. We plan to open source all of JavaFX as we work through the program, said Green. The governance, license, and community models will be worked out as the company gets closer to delivering these products. Sun will release the source code of JavaFX Script to let other companies create web authoring tools using it. Sun, too, intends to create scripting tools for content authoring, Green said The alpha code that Sun demonstrated during Tuesday morning's general session is now available at the Project openjfx.org site. Sun will be enhancing and expanding this scripting language and encourages developers to join its community and send in feedback. http://java.sun.com/javaone/sf/2007/articles/tuesday_gs.jsp --- And you could have *AT LEAST* quoted the entire paragraph of the press release: http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/pr/2007-05/sunflash.20070508.1.xml The first of these, JavaFX Mobile, is a complete mobile phone software system available via OEM license to carriers, content owners and consumer electronics manufacturers. JavaFX leverages the security and ubiquity of the Java platform and will support all content and applications currently available across the billions of Java technology-based devices in the world today. Sun today also previewed JavaFX Script, a new scripting language targeted at creative professionals, which will help to radically simplify the process of creating and distributing interactive content that spans all Java technology enabled platforms, from handsets to set tops, laptops to dashboards (see separate announcement). ***All JavaFX software, like all Java software at Sun, will be available to the free and open source community via the popular GNU General Public License (GPL) license.*** (emphasis mine) Me, I think Java is a four-letter word (and I was @ Sun when it was invented), but I'm *certain* that Sun understands that it has made a commitment to commit all of its software technology to FOSS, and this includes new technologies. Or, you could listen to/watch the webcast where Rich Green is talking all about how they prefer the GPL and then segues into announcing that Java has been open sourced (under the GPL), Finally, Noel Poore and I used to work at Tadpole Technology, Plc together. (George Grey was the original Founder and CEO at both Tadpole and SavaJe.) If you don't know who Noel is, I suggest you check the SavaJe 'management' web page. Or my latest blog post: http://www.smallworks.com/archives/0489.htm (And yes, I did exchange email with Noel today.) Or you could continue to FUD. With the 20/20 hindsight of history, it turns out that ESR was wrong about many things, including being dead wrong about Sun. Sun *owns* the copyright to all of Java, and can offer it under a non-GPL license. Who might want to *pay* Sun for Free Software? Motorola, for one. Ed Zander (CEO of MOT, ex-COO of Sun) and McNeally (ex-CEO of Sun) golf together. Eric Schmidt (CEO of Google) used to work for McNeally and with Zander. If you *don't* think that the deal to get Java FX Mobile on MOT's handsets was done prior to this announcement, and you don't
Re: Sun JavaFx
I know its bad form to respond to one's own posting, but watch the end of the 'webcast' around the 15:00 mark, just after McNealy gets up to talk about Curriki, and then compares Rich Green to Jobs, where Jonathan Schwartz turns to ask Rich Green: JS: Rich, how would you feel about someone taking the JavaFX Mobile stack we just talked about and created an independent device, just took the code, paid Sun nothing, just created a $50 device or a $30 device? RG: To reach everyone? JS: Everyone RG: Perfect! Its just perfect. JS: So thats what we're trying to do, create an open platform that is truly open source... Apple just got its iPhone shoved into a dark, damp orifice. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sun JavaFx
Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: Shawn, I have been very involved in this area at Sun now for a couple of years. Let me add come comments: Hardware accelerated Java is actually fairly common already, at least in the Java ME space using ARM's Jazelle technology. It does have some benefits in very constrained platforms but in general advanced VMs with dynamic adaptive optimizations, compilation, and improved garbage collection perform better than H/W acceleration and at reasonable incremental cost (memory footprint, in particular). I think what we are seeing here is a general trend in the IT industry as general-purpose processors become more and more powerful they displace dedicated hardware solutions because software solutions are more flexible and lower cost. A notable exception, of course, is graphics acelleration but Java implementations typically use those when available. Specifically to Sun's Java chips (picoJava/microJava): I worked on them and the performance was quite good. But it is very hard, if not impossible, to keep up with performance improvements of general purpose processors together with the increasing amount of memory available. That technology evolution relegates Java hardware acceleration to niche status. Many companies have invested in Java H/W acceleration and fell into that trap. It turns out to be difficult to make Java go really fast on specialized hardware. Java wasn't designed to be fast, it was designed to be 'safe' for large groups of programmers to use. You can get single order of magnitude speed-ups for some bytecode streams, but you won't see two. I (too) looked at doing a Java chip (very early, back in 1996 or so). Moore's law continues to march on, only now instead of (super)-linear speed-up on a single core, we're getting multiple cores. Java will be OK with 'multi-core', but won't survive the transition to 'manycore' ( 100 cores), nor will Python, PHP or Perl. This may not matter on a phone platform, but the desktop and server will distance themselves from co-operating sequential processes before too much longer. As for the comparison of JavaFX Mobile with the iPhone: Sure, at first it looks like a me too play, but I think this applies to the whole mobile industry. The iPhone was a major wake-up call to the industry and so I think you will see many iPhone knock-offs over the next 18 months simply because the iPhone is leading the way. The only question is if the rest of the industry 'woke up' enough to see the light of cracking the phone wide-open. If not, they are doomed. Bill Joy explained it a long time ago. Lemma 1: # smart employees = log(# of employees) -- there are more smart people outside your organization than inside it Lemma 2: Innovation will occur Lemma 1 tells us that it will occur elsewhere. Question: How do you take advantage of innovation that occurs outside the organization? Answer: Open Source Of course, FOSS is one answer, there are others, but stating the answer without knowing the question is Jeopardy! However, JavaFX Mobile is distinctly different in that it will be an open system (not closed as the iPhone) and will be part of a multi-screen approach that delivers content across desktops, TV, and mobile. Only Java currently has that market reach so Sun would be ill-advised *not* to capitalize that. Even then, Java, even JavaFX is not the web. http://shaver.off.net/diary/2007/05/10/the-high-cost-of-some-free-tools/ Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Steven ** wrote: On 4/29/07, Martin Lefkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an HTC wizard right now branded as cingular that I am running skype on. If I remember correctly I downloaded the software off the skype site for this handset. Does this mean it's approved or not approved? With your setup, it's a gray area. With the iPhone, it is presented as anything not approved is inherently banned. You were able to get the app because that phone is at least slightly open. The press on the iPhone makes it seem completely closed. Its not 'the press', its Steve Jobs himself. Wouldn't it be a problem for the FTC if Cingular didn't approve software like this because it wouldn't be fair and equitable for that frequency? They would need to have some sort of test for certification right? Or, is this the difference between licensed and unlicensed 802.11b/g/etc. uses 2.4 GHz unlicensed spectrum. No FTC beyond the power limits that would be enforced on the manufacturer of the chip. It's the wifi chip that needs FTC approval, not the software. You're wrong, on several counts. 1) The FTC is the Federal Trade Commission, responsible for things like dealing with anti-competitive behavior. The FCC (Federal Communications Commission) is responsible for various other things, including 'spectrum regulation'. 2) power limits are not the only thing (or even the most important thing) that you need to worry about with a compliant ISM (Part 15.247) WLAN device. Far **MORE** important is out of band emisisons, especially operation in the 'restricted bands' just outside the 2.4GHz spectrum. 3) The FCC doesn't approve 'chips', the manufacturer of the design obtains certification. Note: the *whole* design is tested, and in many instances, this **includes** the software. It certainly includes the entire radio section, from baseband through, and including the antenna. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS module, sense of direction
Vladimír Lapáček wrote: Hi, I am quite currious about the GPS module planned in Neo 1973. For me it is one of the really nice things about Neo. I don't have much experience with GPS, but this really makes me thinking about buying the device. My question is if in Neo will have sense of direction in much similar way a compass has. This would be very handy for orienting the map overlay that every one would most like to use in connection with such device. Any ideas explaining this are more than welcome. GPS only gives you position (assuming 4 satellites, in 3-D space). If you're standing absolutely still, the GPS can't tell you which direction you're facing. You can take the vector of the last motion as an approximation, of course, and as soon as you start to walk/run/drive again, you can correct any errors. If the cell towers would give the phone the angle of arrival (a side-effect of beamforming) from two or more towers, then you could make an estimate of which direction the phone is facing. There are electronic compass chipsets, but the Neo1973 doesn't have one. The addition of something like Honeywell's HMC 1055 could provide not only a tilt-compensated electronic compass, but the accelerometers could make for interesting additions to the GUI(s). Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Duncan Hudson wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. I'm as anxious as anyone to get my hands on one of these, but it just concerns me that the date has slipped again. With each slip the competition gets closer and closer. Openmoko has been compared, favorably, by many sources to the iPhone - and it was originally scheduled to ship months before that device. Now we're talking about shipping after the iPhone, so the bar that you have to clear will have been raised considerably. 1) the Openmoko-for-customers is slated for 9/11/07, so it was going to ship after the Q207 date for the iPhone in any case. 2) the iPhone may slip too. Its all the rumor in the Apple world these days. We already know that Apple has slipped its next OS release (10.5) because it put some large number of its OS folks on the iPhone project, in order to get it out the door. Most of us understand that adding people to a slipping project typically makes it slip harder. 3) the iPhone is being sold (in the US) through ATT/Cingular's channels, which are deep and wide. Getting a consumer to the iPhone will be easy. Getting that same individual to an OpenMoko phone will be much more difficult. 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: built-in scripting languages.
On Apr 18, 2007, at 1:44 AM, Dmitri Hrapof wrote: Jamie Allsop пишет: Yes this page is very good. One thing you might want to note also is that there is a nice C++ binding for Python in boost www.boost.org. Please don't infer from this that I am a big Python fan, most of my scripting to date has been with Perl, however I do see Python as being a language that could be more generally useful as a default. Once upon a time there was a nice idea to make Scheme the default scripting language for the GNU project. (And it even worked in Gimp :) Yes, unfortunately it was still Scheme. Today I suddenly realized I had been wasting my time by not porting some Common Lisp implementation to OpenMoko. :) Yes, you are. Get to work! :-) I was waiting for the hardware, but I could use an emulator! Am I correct? quite Will a working clisp or say, gambit scheme influence the choice of default scripting language? :) Unlikely, but I would use it. You don't want a scripting language, you want a language that makes it possible to build domain-specific languages. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: built-in scripting languages.
On Apr 18, 2007, at 2:41 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: PyGTK looks like the most likely contender to me -- not just because I wrote a book about it and I'm the author of almost everything Python-related in OE, but also because PyGTK is pretty mature and easy to extend (you probably have seen Zecke's work in wrapping the Moko classes did you?). The thing that worries me is the performance. The Neo1973 has a really slow CPU. I didn't test on a device yet, but I'm afraid running 'import gtk' alone will take roughly 30 seconds, if not more. We will probably have to jump through hoops to make _any_ scripting language to perform reasonably on the Neo1973 (first incarnation). Well, python is known to be slow. There is plenty of CPU on the OpenMoko for something like Lua.. or lisp, or scheme might look into Chicken Scheme: http://www.call-with-current- continuation.org/index.html It runs on the Nokia 770: http://chicken.wiki.br/chicken%20on% 20handhelds, and the Zaurus, both of which have less CPU than the Neo1973. Chicken Scheme compiles to 'C'. Its fast, way faster than Python. http://curiousprogrammer.wordpress.com/2006/09/25/switching-scheme- implementations/ One of the more recent additions to Chicken is the 'Easy Foreign Function Interface'. This enables you to embed C or C++ code inside your Scheme code and it gets converted to Scheme automatically. The example given in the manual http://chicken.wiki.br/easyffi or http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/chicken.pdf uses Chicken Scheme to write a Qt application. The Qt classes get automatic wrappers generated using the object system (TinyClos). So the actual Scheme code looks like: (define a (apply make QApplication (receive (argc+argv (define hello (make QPushButton hello world! #f)) (resize hello 100 30) (setMainWidget a hello) (show hello) (exec a) (destroy hello) (destroy a) There is a GTK SWIG for Chicken: http://wiki.freaks-unidos.net/ chicken-gtk Someone should also look into putting Einstein http:// www.kallisys.com/newton/einstein/ the NewtonOS port on the Neo1973. It already runs on the Nokia 770 and the Zaurus. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
