Re: Windows CE on freerunner

2008-08-22 Thread Kalle Happonen
Jeff Sadowski wrote:

snip

  the whole reason to buy a
 freerunner is the fact that they support linux.
snip

Isn't the whole reason to buy a freerunner, that you are free to do 
whatever you like with it? :) (the name could give a hint...)

Kalle Happonen

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Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!

2008-08-19 Thread Kalle Happonen
Jan Keymeulen wrote:
 On Mon 18 August 2008 om 16:27:48 GMT Kalle Happonen told us:
   
 Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
 
 hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check 
 out his comments!!!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk
   
 Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the 
 comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :).

 

 http://xkcd.com/202/
   
Aaah, xkcd. How many times hasn't that saved my day :)




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Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!

2008-08-18 Thread Kalle Happonen
Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
 hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check 
 out his comments!!!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk

Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the 
comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :).


Kalle

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Re: Usable Keyboard

2008-08-09 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi all,
First of all I also have to say great job with 2008.08. I like it a lot.

Then the normal keyboard rant. I don't mind the predictive keyboard at 
all. As long as 1) I can add languages 2) can choose the word I actually 
typed.

When the predictive kb is on,  and I type in english I really like it. 
Yesterday at the bar when friends were taynting ooh let's see if you 
manage to write an sms with openmoko, I whipped out the freerunner, and 
had a message written in english before the othe guys had their phones 
out of the pocket. And this was with accuracy - (beer * 4). But when 
they asked to write something in finnish, I said ooh, who's ready for 
anothe beer and deftly hid the freerunner.

Cheers,
Kalle
 With this crazy «dictionary-thing» I'm not able to write a message in (Swiss) 
 German or any other language than English. Even a simple «Hallo» ends up 
 in «Hello». And as long I'm not able to write a word that is not in the 
 dictionary it's pretty useless for me. There are also keys missing to make it 
 usable for the terminal.

 I think I am talking for a lot of people who want to have a _nice and usable_ 
 keyboard - for any language and any app.

 The keyboard has to be finger friendly and not too small. It should contain 
 all usual letters and special characters. 
 I made a little mockup (it's no design masterpiece... ;-)) of a keyboard. I 
 think something in this direction would be really cool:
   


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Re: 2008 WTF??

2008-08-09 Thread Kalle Happonen
Bumbl wrote:
 As it seems they have the contrary.
 They have a leader which seems to dictate everything without
 accepting ideas from the developers or the community.

   
Well, that's just mean. It's not like they don't listen to the community 
or communicate with it, on ALL levels. But it's not like all community 
ideas can be implemented immideately, and that everyone can be made 
happy. Anarchy doesn't work even in open source.

I think 2008.08 is in most ways a step forward. And in the things that 
aren't like that.. sometimes you have to take a half step back to get 
two steps forward. Constructive criticism is the best help one can give, 
but bitching is just stupid.

Cheers,
Kalle
 Dimitri wrote:
   
 It's hard to argue with your points, since the phone STILL can't connect to
 the internet *out-of-the-box*.

 (Who wants to manually hack a dozen files, or install some guy's
 half-working gui posted on some blog that requires google-translate to
 read?)

 Why the developers are spending time breaking things that were previously
 worked (see ASU keyboard), rather than fixing what's broken and in desperate
 need of fixing, is beyond me.

 Is it a lack of leadership? For this aggressive undertaking to be
 successful, it needs at least one person to prioritize, delegate, and lead
 the other developers.

 Is there such a person at Openmoko? If not, that's the problem. Having a
 team of developers, without clear leadership, is akin to herding cats :)

 D


 ted braak wrote:
   
 
 I have real doubts about the some Quality Assurance aspects of this team. 
 Also I don't see real dedication and vision to get rid of bugs and produce
 something stable and usable. It looks like there is more effort in
 bringing us bling. 
 I think bling is something that can be created by the community itself. 

 
   


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Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?

2008-08-07 Thread Kalle Happonen
I got my order confirmation 27.7, shipping confirmation 28.7 and 
received it yesterday. I chose the slowest cheapes delivery, so I think 
it was in time. Delivery to France. Got one for my Nokia N810 too at the 
same time :)

Cheers,
Kalle

Cédric DUFOUIL wrote:
 I finally received an answer from ZAGG. They say they will ship 
 another one ...

 So now ... Wait  See ...
  
 

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Re: usb networking no longer works

2008-08-06 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi,
I had the same problem. IIRC it was resolved by flashing a new uboot to 
the device.

cheers,
Kalle

Dimitri wrote:
 I've flashed the latest 2008.8 images, and the script I was previously using
 to connect to the phone via usb no longer works.

 What I used to run (with 2007.2 images) was the following script as sudo in
 Ubuntu:
 --
 #!/bin/bash

 iptables -F
 ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
 route add 192.168.0.202 usb0
 iptables -I INPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.202 -j ACCEPT
 iptables -I OUTPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.200 -j ACCEPT
 iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
 bash -c echo '1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward'
 --

 But now, it fails with errors. I ran it, line by line, the first line that
 fails is

 ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0

 with the error:
 --
 SIOCSIFADDR: No such device
 usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device
 SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device
 --

 What's going on?
 Dimitri
   


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Phonecalls hanging up

2008-07-31 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi,
I just got out of a lengthy call which got hung up 4 times during the 
call. It seemed like it went to powersave mode. It might just be that 
the audio died, and the remote person hung up and called again. I did an 
upgrade to the newest 2007.2 today. I use the dim-first-then-lock 
option. Is the phone going to suspend even if a call is active?

Kalle

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Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design

2008-07-29 Thread Kalle Happonen
Nkoli wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Having worked in Open-Hardware for over 15 years now, I was, in fact,
 expecting a much more coherent strategy for the software platform on
 Freerunner than just let the community decide.  Certainly, the
 community aspect of this project is huge; I am not saying that it is
 not valuable to have such great public influence on the design; just
 that: there *has* to be a rigid design approach to guide development,
 or else we end up with a torn map navigating fork-city.


 Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an 
 unpleasant atmosphere
Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying 
where he's trying to come from. I'm not saying that everybody should 
immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having 
an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's 
not like there's only one truth.  Trying to silence and belittle people 
who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one 
thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and 
stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're 
never at least unfounded.

Kalle

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Re: How do you reply to an sms in 2007.2?

2008-07-28 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hit the pen (lower right) when you have the message open..

Kalle

William Kenworthy wrote:
 How do you reply to an sms in 2007.2?

 Does not seem to be possible.

 Is there any user documentation for the various standard apps? - they
 are not all that intuitive!

 BillK



   


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Re: Public build host (proposal)

2008-07-24 Thread Kalle Happonen
Stroller wrote:
 On 24 Jul 2008, at 06:22, Kalle Happonen wrote:
   
 John Mark Walker wrote:
 
 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 by gratis he means without cost
 
 Oops... :)  Yes, I mean free as in beer.
   
 Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is free as in  
 free
 beer which makes much more sense :).
 

 I have never seen the phrase used this way, only free as in  
 beer (vs free as in speech).
   
Yes, I have always also heard it like that. But then I saw a question to 
Stallman, that doesn't make sense, there's no real free beer? And he 
answered that no, but people are misquoting. It was originally free as 
in free speech, not as in free beer or something pretty close... If 
there are some real gpl stallman enthusiast there, feel free to flame me 
for mistelling/quoting/having proprietary nvidia drivers on the laptop..

Kalle



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Re: Public build host (proposal)

2008-07-23 Thread Kalle Happonen
John Mark Walker wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 by gratis he means without cost

 

 Oops... :)  Yes, I mean free as in beer.

   
Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is free as in free 
beer which makes much more sense :). In general I have a way too hard 
time to find free beer.


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Launching apps in ASU

2008-07-22 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hello,
I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed 
the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I 
can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can 
ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the 
whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a 
sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there 
would be an easier way than playing with sqlite.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Launching apps in ASU

2008-07-22 Thread Kalle Happonen
Marcel wrote:
 Am Dienstag 22 Juli 2008 08:39:20 schrieb Kalle Happonen:
   
 Hello,
 I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed
 the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I
 can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can
 ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the
 whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a
 sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there
 would be an easier way than playing with sqlite.
 
 Simply add a new .desktop file for it to /usr/share/applications. :)

   
ah, well that seems more than obvious. Is this in the wiki btw? I'm sure 
I'm not the first with this problem/question.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Terminal for ASU

2008-07-22 Thread Kalle Happonen
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:39:01 +0100 JW [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

   
 Where are the design documents which say no keyboard toggle button
 should be included, please? If one wishes to contribute code or
 patches to ASU then I guess it's necessary to know this, or one will
 find patches rejected because they don't meet this design specification?

   
 surely this is a prime candidate for a motion detection / gesture detection
 to bring up the keyboard

 easy - no extra button needed

 geeks who enable their gesture of choice get the keyboard when they want it

 carsten can you build in the sleeping gesture as you go?
 

 what gesture, where? how? how ill this be able to not conflict with operation
 of other apps? i am not so hot on gestures - especially ones that use up the
 whole screen or parts o the screen where apps run - as now gestures fight 
 for
 usability with apps themselves. there is no coordination. example:

 if the gesture was slide up the screen from bottom to top - how is this
 gesture different from me dragging my finger to scroll a list in the 
 application
 on my screen? how do i make sure only ONE of these happens (the keyboard pops 
 up
 OR the scroll happens) and not both?
   
I'm not sure, but I think he meant gesture as in accelerometer. Double 
tap the phone for instance, or tap it on the bottom and it slides up, 
and tap it on the top and it slides down... or...

Kalle

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-21 Thread Kalle Happonen
Scott Derrick wrote:
 Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings
 that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference?

   
It's hard to believe nobody has come up with Better Than Default 
settings, uploaded the config, and gotten it in the newest release :)
 Scott

 Cédric Berger wrote:
   
 People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked,
 they said there was none.
 But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe
 that's why there was no echo...
 (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too)

 I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more...

 


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Re: Import contacts qtopia

2008-07-21 Thread Kalle Happonen
Greg Bonett wrote:
 Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from
 trolltech as is so is likely to have issues)

 1.) copy the the file vcf to the device
 2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted)
 3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import..
 4.) You might need to restart afterwards


 maybe someone comes up with a FAQ...



 z.
 
 Ah, thats seems easy.
 Can anyone confirm this method?  (I'll try it as soon as I get home from
 work)
   
Hmm I didn't get this to work. I didn't have a terminal on the phone, so 
I ran it with X forwarding, i.e. the windows opened on my laptop. I 
think I would have gotten them imported (vCard version 2.1, not 3 for 
some reason), but I found no way of confirmin the Would you like to 
import dialog. I didn't find a way to tell addressbook to autoimport, 
the documentation is a bit skimpy..

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Rogers SIM (Canada) causing crash on Dialer

2008-07-20 Thread Kalle Happonen
Sparrow wrote:
 Hi Folks, 

 I have an issue with a rogers (Canada) SIM card crashing the
 dialer application when a call is started.  After hitting dial on the
 dialer app the screen moves cuts over to the out going call screen and
 then the dial crashes.  I have tried another SIM from a friend's 1st gen
 iPhone and it works without issue.  This SIM does work in several other
 phones without issue.  Where should I start to debug this issue?  
 Thanks for your time and help. 

   
My Swiss Orange card shows the same symptoms, but only intermittently. 
Much of the time, I can call and receive calls. Sometimes after a the 
phone has been on for a while the dialer crashes when I try to call, or 
dialer looks like it's dialing, but nothing happens. When this happens I 
can't receive calls or sms's either. A reboot solves the problem. Any 
idea where to start debugging? I run the latest scaredycat (as of last 
thursday). I have also had dialing/receiving problems when I tested ASU.

Cheers,
Kalle Happonen


 Best Regards, 
 Steven O'Reilly





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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi,
I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it 
does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes. 
Someone earlier wrote:

That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It 
resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to 
fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably 
resume makes it an unreliable phone.


So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up 
from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know 
it's under development, just curious.

Cheers,
Kalle


Adam Talbot wrote:
 I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/

 Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
 every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
 wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
 Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
 will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
 only one who can get these numbers ;-)
 -Adam


 On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
   
 I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
 dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
 say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
 showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
 desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
 minutes or so).  apm showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
 apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
 standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.

 -Steven

 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 How are you doing this?

 If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
 nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
 Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
 to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
 suffer from this?

 I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
 What are you using?
   
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen
Jay Vaughan wrote:
 For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at  
 *least* daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not  
 wiki).
 


 Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not*  
 diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who  
 are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS  
 testing issue is a *huge* screw up.

   
No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but 
nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a 
*huge* screw up.


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen
Jay Vaughan wrote:
 Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue  
 *not*
 diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who
 are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS
 testing issue is a *huge* screw up.
   
 No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug.
 

 Context:SD+Glamo == No go.
 SD+GPS == No go.

 How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was  
 discovered?  How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so  
 that development can continue?
   
Haha, compared to how many products has a big phone company shipped 
before fixing their hw bugs?, a neglible amount, and those to HC fans 
and supporters that know they are beta testers.
 Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but
 nothing extraordinary.
 

 If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer  
 qualified for my project.  Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats  
 nasty.  I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but ..
   
Well, then it's a big issue for you, which of course is crappy. But 
that's just it, it's a huge issue for *you*.  In the grand scheme of 
things it's a bug, and a bug Joerg has told us to be patient about, and 
one where there will be a fix for. I'd just wait for the sw + hw fixes, 
and see what the result is.


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen
Marcus Bauer wrote:
 On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 08:45 +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote:
   
 Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not*  
 diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who  
 are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS  
 testing issue is a *huge* screw up.

   
   
 No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but 
 nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a 
 *huge* screw up.
 

 I don't follow your view. The Debian ssh bug was all but obvious. That's
 why it went for a long time unnoticed.
Not being obvious doesn't mean it isn't a huge screw up. Small things 
can mean huge implications. The Debian bug immideately cut the 
foundation of a huge amount of security that relies on this, worldwide 
and in critical applications. Keys are expected to be practically 
uncrackable, and a *lot* is built on this assumption, so correct key 
generations should be a no-brainer (20-20 hindsight, I admit). So the 
debian bug was a huge screw up, but luckily I think it was fixed with a 
bad scare in most cases.

 However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very
 obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder
 if anybody ever drove around with it.

   
Well, if you buy a beta first customer release car and the gps isn't 
working when you play a cd, You might think crap! well luckily they 
promised a fix in the end of the week, in time for the weekend trip to 
my parents.
 The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing
 sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care
 about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily
 phone.
   
This IMHO is a much bigger problem, which has caught much less attention.
 Then there are the phones with a GSM modem that constantly re-registers.

   
 And there is still no word about which headsets are usable with the Neo.

 Don't mix up freedom with broken hardware!
   
Don't mix first release beta phones with big-company market ready 
devices (which sometimes are market ready themselves, even with a lot 
more resources).

I think this is just a bit bigger case of the whole gta02v5 vs gta02v6 
led issue, that when quickly resolved actually was forgotten and even 
the word issue is too strong.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen
thomasg wrote:
 Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
 Complete bullshit.
Which of this? I agree with Scott, well, in a more understanding, and 
smiling way but still. I took the phone from the charger this morning, 
and it's almost dead now at the end of the workday, without me having 
used it at all. But I know there's work on improving this, and some nice 
results too, and I'm ok with this now. For real use, the current battery 
life just doesn't work in most cases.

As for the other stuff in the mail, people have been fighting with sim 
cards, gsm (o/), gps (o/).

But not to worry, improvement is on the way, and the speed that this 
moves on with the openmoko team and the community, I'm pretty sure this 
(and most other issues) will be solved sooner than later.


 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime
 people
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to
 accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously
 can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?

 Scott

 --

 -
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will
 within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do
 not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but
 the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of
 the individual.

Thomas Jefferson


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Package and image signatures

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi,
would it be possible to add signatures for the packages and hashes for 
the images? The latter one should be easy and it could be pretty much 
automated in the build process. I agree that it doesn't help much, but 
it would stop some of possible malicious repo tampering. I'm not saying 
it will happen, but they got Ubuntu too so it's always a possibility :)..

Having package signatures is a bit more work, at least if you want to do 
it well and securely, but I think this would be importat at latest when 
openmoko starts getting mirrors, just to make sure users get correct 
versions of software.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

2008-07-15 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hello,
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
 Hi,

 Diego Fernández Durán escribió:
   
 I use the FR as a phone.

 And I trying to figure out where can I apply my C, C++, Gtk knowledge to
 help in the development.

 A list of small things that must be done will be appreciated, so
 anybody of us can use our free time to read the code, write a small
 patch and summit it to a om developer. :)

   
 

 I have using it also as a phone, almost as soon as I get one. It works 
 fine. After a while I reflash it and screw it, but seems nothing 
 serious.  I will play with it tomorrow finding a solution.

   
I also use it as a phone. Even with all the glitches it's better than my 
old one which I had by accident manhandled over a long time :).

For me it works ok. The main problem is that now and then, after a boot, 
I can't call or receive calls even if I seem to be connected. Another 
boot usually solves this. With some kernel/image combination, I also had 
the problem that the gsm doesn't work after it goes to sleep... I have 
heard that my sound quality is poor though, but I haven't done further 
testing.

Cheers.
Kalle

 Cheers,

 Offray


   
 El dom, 13-07-2008 a las 10:11 +0200, Yorick Moko escribió:
   
 
 there is some talk about this on the devel-list:

 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003560.html
 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003562.html
 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003563.html

 On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Randy S. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 I am curious to know if anyone is using their FR as a phone.
 Mine has such poor audio quality, it is unfortunately useless
 as a phone.  The audio I hear is clear but at a very low
 volume; the other person hears my voice very distorted and
 with a buzz.
 
 I am on T-Mobile in Texas, USA.

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread Kalle Happonen
Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
 indeed, especially since I see possibility for it to be twofold: if it
 is not purely an issue of SD card in place putting physical stress on
 the board somehow (would be worth checking with dummy plastic
 insert instead of real SD card), it means that 

   
I just ran three tests. Without SD card, with SD card with tape over the 
contacts, and SD card normally. This doesn't seem to be mechanical, 
since the first two cases got fixes in ~45 seconds, and with the SD card 
actually in and working I stopped waiting after 10 minutes.

It'll be interesting to see what removing the SD card does to the 
battery life, if anything.

 1. either SD card is powered all the time (which afaik is not needed for
 the flash memory ;-)), thus leading to power drain without need

 2. some component on the way (e.g. capacitor) is noisy
 and emitting EM noise/interference, thus again consuming power without
 need.

 Could anyone verify that power consumption is not changed considerably
 whenever SD card is in but not engaged, in comparison to whenever there
 is no SD card?

 On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Jay Vaughan wrote:

   
 The problem only occurs if a SD card is set in. Doesn't matter if  
 it's mounted or in use, it just has to sit in the socket.
   

   
 oh man, if this is true, its not good news.
 


   
 ;
 


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-15 Thread Kalle Happonen
This is great news indeed! Since I'm adventurous, and thought I'd take 
the Freerunner into phone use immideately, this has been the biggest 
obstacle for normal use so far. With decent battery life I'd be a Very 
Happy User.

Adam Talbot wrote:
 This is all with my FreeRunner.
 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
 like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
 out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
 management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
 many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
 a working SIM to test wake up on call.

 Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
 module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?

 On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
   
 Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new
 suspend/resume functionality.  I don't know if there's an image that
 has those changes available though.  It's not a hardware issue...

 -Steven

 On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?

 Scott

 --

 -
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within 
 limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within 
 the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and 
 always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Thomas Jefferson


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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hello,
I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the 
security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course passwordless 
root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is possible 
over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it 
listen only to the usb.

In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or /home 
if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be nice, but 
maybe too heavy and battery draining?

In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best 
practices should be at least considered, including automatic security 
updates.

After the basic security is in good shape, one could move on to fun 
things like phone lock/unlock/shutdown with an sms, personal data 
backups / remote removal... the possibilities! :)

Cheers,
Kalle

Yorick Moko wrote:
 This mail was posted on the devel list
 (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003594.html).
 Thought it would interest a lot of people who are not subscribed to
 that list:


 Hi Guys,

 a few months ago we have planned to improve the security of our beloved
 Neo, after we have read about desires of the community regarding to the
 security issue.

 And here we are. Today I will present you our project MokSec.

 What is MokSec?
 ===

 MokSec is framework which target is to improve the security of the mobile
 devices which are based on OpenMoko (and other frameworks which are running on
 Neos)

 What is our main focus at the moment?
 =

 The main focus is the encryption over GSM. This is very complicated issue and
 for this we searching developer which are willing to work with us on this
 interesting project.

 What are the other components?
 ==

 At the moment we only working on a phone firewall, which will be
 blocking/accepting incoming calls. Later one we will add other projects or
 developer will be able to add their projects.

 Were you can find more informations?
 

 http://moksec.networld.to : The main page
 http://moko.networld.to   : The git repositories
 http://networld.to/mailman/listinfo/moksec-public : The mailinglist

 We hope that a lot of people will work with us on the security issue.

 Happy programming

 Alex Oberhauser

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Re: Import Contacts

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
Andreas Dalsgaard wrote:
 2008/7/12 Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
 On Friday 11 July 2008, Kalle Happonen wrote:
 
 Hi,

 Brian C wrote:
   
 Brian C wrote:
 [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM
 terminal]

 Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM
 terminal.
 
 It might work from an ssh session if you run:
dbus-launch scriptname
 I haven't tried this though - just guessing based on similar behaviour from
 gconftool-2

 
 However, it appears to have entered all null contacts and
 so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them
 

 If you do not want to delete all the null contacts by hand I've made
 a script(attached as remove_all_contacts.py) based on Wurps script
 which removes all contacts in your addressbook. It should be pretty
 easy to modify so that it only deletes null contacts.

   
 I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script.
 I had two issues actually. The easiest to try
  is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and
 have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem.
   
 Blank line removal should be a one-liner - if only I were more familiar with
 python ;-)
 

 Take a quick look at the attached import_contacts.py script, it is
 based on Al Johnson modification to Wurps script.

   
Hah, thanks for fixing the script. I almost feel ashamed for not 
spending a few minutes to fix it up, but just did vim magic on my 
contacts files :). And thanks for the contact remover too!
 I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in
 Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard
 from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those  v2.1 vCards. I then
 exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the
 entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth).
 AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be
 similar problems.

 When I tried to import Wammu vCards,  they showed up as null entries on
 openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution,
 and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to
 openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any.
   
 Interesting...I remember having similar problems with OpenXchange a couple of
 years ago. It assumed v3 and didn't check the version in the vCard itself.
 You had to pick which interface to use depending on the vCard version. i
 wonder if Evolution Data Server is doing something similar?

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
thomasg wrote:
 On 7/14/08, *Kalle Happonen* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,
 I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the
 security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course
 passwordless
 root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is
 possible
 over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it
 listen only to the usb.

  
 There's no need for a firewall at all (in fact it's probably the worst 
 idea).
 Just set a root password (you're probably a win user, the command is 
 simply passwd) and it'll be fine.
  
What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can set the 
root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot 
if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit 
heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but making 
dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good 
compromise, if that is possible.

However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost 
essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi should 
(almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone 
is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps they 
install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only viable 
way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one 
interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a 
firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface.


 In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or
 /home
 if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be
 nice, but
 maybe too heavy and battery draining?

  
 Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system.
 Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the 
 files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important 
 documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my idea would
No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically 
what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is 
kernel support for it already.
 be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles 
 encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure 
 that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it 
 (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook).
 This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and 
 access is granted dynamically (as needed).
I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to use. If 
you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to get the 
contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible. If you 
want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is 
long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI enabled SIM, 
which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup. 
The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the 
pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible 
easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to 
use the phone. There could be then options to forget the encryption key 
either locally or via a magic sms.
 Yeah, it's a little much effort, but there is no security without it.
 If you'd encrypt the whole rootfs you'd have it decrypted the whole 
 time the phone is on (otherwise nothing would work), what means, the 
 security is gone.
No it doesn't. Everything NEEDS to be decrypted automagically when the 
phone is on. Otherwise it's just unusable. The whole system shouldn't be 
encrypted, that's just waste.  But having a personal area decrypted at 
startup means that only you can access it at bootup, and one can add the 
option of remotely disabling access to it. That is very much security, 
way more than phones usually have nowadays, even more than 
laptops/desktops, but not too much to make it hard/annoying to use.
 Well, that's only a part of a possible security framework, but this 
 are only some thoughts.
  

 In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best
 practices should be at least considered, including automatic security
 updates.

  
 It's a standard linux system with a lightweight, but still standard, 
 packet management, so that's how it already is handeled (well, without 
 the automatic, but I don't like automatic updating anyway).

The fact that it has package management doesn't mean much in itself. I 
think current linux distributions have a pretty good model. A separate 
security updates repo, which just releases security patches, and since 
these are an security update of the recommended version, they don't 
(well shouldn't) break anything, so they can even be pretty safely 
applied automatically. Again, defaults matter. If you need to log in, 
run

Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
arne anka wrote:
 How would being root help somebody decrypt a filesystem?  Accessing an
 encrypted filesystem should depend only on having the correct key.
 

 well, to be really usefull the fs should be mounted transparently (hacking  
 in the passphrase on every access seems utterly tedious with that tiny  
 keyboard -- and would probably add to the exposure risk).
depends on what you mean on every access. If it's once per startup, I 
wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone?


Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
arne anka wrote:
 wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone?
 

 with a battery uptime of about 8h -- at least once a day, because the fr  
 usually silently shuts down.
 on weekends more frequently because i play around and something crashes or  
 so.
   
Well, this wasn't available now, was it? :). Since these are only plans, 
and afaik the powersave functionality will be vastly improved, that 
argument is hopefully invalid when the encryption is available.

Kalle

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Paul Jimenez wrote:
   
 Alex Oberhauser wrote:
 
 Bumbl wrote:
   
   
 It would be more important to not run everything as root I think
 
 
 This will be also a main focus. When we receive the Freerunners, we will see
 how fast we can change this bad state.

   
   
 Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I 
 can worry less about snoopy people getting access to my personal data if 
 I lose my phone or it's stolen.  How many 'main focuses' are you allowed 
 ? :)
 

 Can we use the SIM-Card to decrypt stuff?
 It's after all a smart card. :)

 Would be cool if we could store a crypto key on the SIM, which it will 
 only release if you provide the right SIM.
   
I don't think that's doable with normal SIMs. But there are places where 
you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a 
certificate (PKI). This is possible at least in Finland, but not widely 
used.  If you had the PKI enabled SIM, I'd say it wouldn't only be cool, 
it would be THE way to go, as far as security and ease of use goes. :)


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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
Jan de Haan wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 But there are places where
 you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a
 certificate (PKI).
 

 I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)?

 Sincerely,

   
Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by 
the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland.
http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument


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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Kalle Happonen wrote:
   
 Jan de Haan wrote:
 
 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   
 But there are places where
 you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a
 certificate (PKI).
 
 
 I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)?

 Sincerely,

   
   
 Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by 
 the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland.
 http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument
 

 I wish more governments would be so progressive. *g*
 We in Germany are botching around on this idea for years with apparently 
 no result. But at least our politicians have the will to implement 
 anonymous signatures, which is rather cool.
 Sometimes you just want to prove that you are real, and not who you 
 actually are.

 Well, off topic... Congrats Finland. ;)

   
Well it looks cool, but in practice... there's maybe 1 service that 
accepts these.. maybe. And the operators are clueless about it. I agree, 
it's great to have this infrastructure, but without services, it's just 
a virtual finnish penis




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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
thomasg wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:22 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Of course you can create another user, as you are used to on any
 unix
  system.
  It just doesn't ship with one because the distro comes in
 ready-to-deploy
  images, not with a installer like the binary-distro-people are
 used to.

 sure? i think it possible that some things won't work when
 non-root ...


 Of course some things won't work - if they would, there would be no 
 need for a special root account.
 Basically all the tools someone would use without a terminal should 
 work (dialer, contacs, ...) no matter what stack is used.
 The daemons that need root access run in background and can be 
 controlled by userspace-programs without root-access.

 If of course would take a loginmanager or similar to use a user with 
 password at startup, because currently the user root is automatically 
 logged in. Should be easy to fix.
Even running only critical things as root, and most stuff on a 
no-password unprivileged account would be better. But an user account 
with a password a would of course be better. The I'd say that the PIN 
could almost be saved somewhere, to avoid the need for a double log-in.

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Kalle Happonen
thomasg wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

 What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can
 set the
 root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot
 if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit
 heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but
 making
 dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good
 compromise, if that is possible.

  
 Ok, sorry, that was a too mean joke :P
I forgive you :)
 The situation with no root password set is of course not bearable, but 
 I'm pretty sure that this issue will be solved in a consumer-ready 
 release.
 What I'd imagine would be a kind of first-run-guide, that forces 
 (or allows, however you want :) ) the user to do all the important 
 settings at the first run of the phone (could be used for backup 
 purposes, too, e.g. load an xml-file with the settings).
 Would make the life way easier for newbies.

That would make sense yes. And since it's a pretty complex device, a 
first-run setup is almost needed anyway.

 However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost
 essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi
 should
 (almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone
 is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps
 they
 install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only
 viable
 way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one
 interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a
 firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface.

  
 A firewall is always a more or less big piece of software, always not 
 the best for performance, and always a security risk (if it's not 
 dedicated). It also is not possible to do a easy and _good_ 
 configuration, so however it's done, it's always suboptimal.
 There are not too much services running, and all of them are open 
 source software, so that is imho not that a big deal.

iptables fits into a small kernel, that's not big software :). It might 
have some performance hits, but with these traffic amounts it shouldn't 
matter. The big but is of course the frontend to it. And open source 
software isn't immune to vulnerabilities :). Security patches help, but 
if possible, I'd still go for a firewall.


 
  In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for
 /root (or
  /home
  if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be
  nice, but
  maybe too heavy and battery draining?
 
 
  Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system.
  Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the
  files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important
  documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my
 idea would
 No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically
 what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is
 kernel support for it already.
  be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles
  encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure
  that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it
  (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook).
  This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and
  access is granted dynamically (as needed).
 I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to
 use. If
 you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to
 get the
 contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible.
 If you
 want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is
 long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI
 enabled SIM,
 which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup.
 The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the
 pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible
 easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to
 use the phone. There could be then options to forget the
 encryption key
 either locally or via a magic sms.
  Yeah, it's a little much effort, but there is no security
 without it.
  If you'd encrypt the whole rootfs you'd have it decrypted the whole
  time the phone is on (otherwise nothing would work), what means, the
  security is gone.
 No it doesn't. Everything NEEDS to be decrypted automagically when the
 phone is on. Otherwise it's just unusable. The whole system
 shouldn't be
 encrypted, that's just waste.  But having a personal area decrypted at
 startup means that only you can access

Accessing the freerunner filesystem

2008-07-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi all,
I was wondering what the easiest way to access freerunner's filesystem 
from a computer. Or just copy over files. If i got the wlan up, it would 
be one way, but for that I apparently need to write the wpa supplicant 
conf, and I prefer not doing that on the phone :). I could probalby just 
make a new image with the files included, but is there an easier way? I 
could probably copy it over to the flash card on the laptop, but that 
also means removing the battery and sim for every change.

Cheers,
Kalle



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Re: Accessing the freerunner filesystem

2008-07-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Ah, how could I have been so blind and missed that part. Thanks, just 
what I needed.

Cheers,
Kalle

arne anka wrote:
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking

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Re: Import Contacts

2008-07-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hi,
Brian C wrote:
 Brian C wrote:
 [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM terminal]

 Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM
 terminal.  However, it appears to have entered all null contacts and
 so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them
   
I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script. 
I had two issues actually. The easiest to try
 is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and 
have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem.

I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in 
Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard 
from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those  v2.1 vCards. I then 
exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the 
entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth). 
AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be 
similar problems.

When I tried to import Wammu vCards,  they showed up as null entries on 
openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution, 
and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to 
openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any. 


Hope it helps,
Kalle

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear - what market

2008-06-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

   
 Robert Taylor wrote:
 
 On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.  
 If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than 
 the $600 the phone is worth.
   
 The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow
 you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen
 again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the
 first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone
 will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price
 than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with
 moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone
 will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway)
 

 not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this
 happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was 
 assumed
 that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore
 the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they
 sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that.

 now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you
 can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a
 contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract
 unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination
 clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of
 not completely cover it and then some.
   
This is how I've understood it too, so this means there would be no 
cheap unlocked iPhones on the market in any significant volume. But 
the next thing to consider is what market/audience is the main target of 
OM. It seems some places (US) you'll end up to pay the same for the 
contract with or without a subsidised phone, which makes OM pricey 
compared to other options.

In many places in europe however you can get much cheaper contracts 
without an included phone. In Finland (which is a best case scenario, 
granted) for example, I would never touch a phone+subscription combo, 
partly thanks to a good legislation. So in many (most?) countries in 
europe OM + a contract could be significantly cheaper than iPhone.

I can't say about the asian market, but I think the imporant thing to 
consider where the most phones are expected to be sold. Another thing to 
consider is the target audience of GTA02. Are people who consider 
getting GTA02 also considering iPhone, or is it more of a geek/hacker 
(GTA02) - ooh look at me, I'm so trendy (iPhone) split, in which case 
the problem isn't a big deal to begin with.


 sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or
 from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and
 some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that
 that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate
 once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey 
 have
 to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money.

 as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are
 going to be much more than $199.

   
 furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a
 freephone have to be competitive  in price, not only in quality and
 philosophy. 
 
 This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing 
   
 things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to 
 be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, 
 it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and 
 understand the reality of the situation.
   
 not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about
 smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable
 you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you
 pay anyway

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Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Michael Kluge wrote:
 7. Apple currently defines the PDA/mobile marketplace.
 

 No, the smartphone market is dominated by the Blackberry.
   
Dominate and define are different things. Blackberry might dominate 
(only in US though), but now Apple has the new cool thing, and every 
manufacturer from Samsung to Nokia make releases of similar models at 
the same time. So Apple does define the smartphone market for a given 
cusomer segment.

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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

2008-06-10 Thread Kalle Happonen
Hello,
I won't coment on the techical specs, but the pricing is in no way 
comparable. The iPhone v2 might be 199$, but that's with a 2 year ATT 
subscription. If you want a real comparison of the real device price, at 
least double the iPhone price. There was some country where Apple had to 
sell the original iPhone separately too because of the law (france? 
gremany?), and then it was priced 799€ or thereabouts iirc. So to 
compare the actual phone price, I think iPhone is even more expensive.

Cheers,
Kalle

Ron K. Jeffries wrote:

 [I trust this will not initiate a flame war.] Please?

 iPhone v2 announced today. I'd like to understand
 on a hardware basis ONLY (I grok the value of
 free and open source) how does
 the entry level $199 iPhone with 4GB
 compare with Freerunner GTA02.

 where I get lost is how much RAM iPhone
 has vs Freerunner. I realize I can buy
 high capacity microSD flash card to match
 iPhone flash capacity

 are these assertions correct?

 Apple has:

 -- 3G data [much faster than Freeruner's GPRS]
 -- faster processor
 -- larger physical screen size (but about the same dpi?)
 -- 2 megapixel camera
 -- proximity sensor (knows when held to face, can dim screen)

 the two smart phones are aprox equal on
 -- wi-fi
 -- accelerometer
 -- bluetooth

 Ron K. Jeffries
 http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries


 

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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

2008-06-10 Thread Kalle Happonen
arne anka wrote:
 It's 8GB not 4 and it's $199 with a 2yr contract.  Regular retail prices
 have yet to be announced.
 

 as i understand, 199 is apple's price -- providers may subsidise the  
 iphone, too.
   
No, 199$ is a operator subsidised price.

from
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/the-cost-of-the-199-iphone-10-more-per-month-for-data/

According to a press release from ATT, the carrier will no longer give 
a portion of monthly usage fees to Apple. Instead carriers will pay 
Apple a subsidy for each phone sold, in order to bring the price from 
$399 down to $199 for the 8 Gigabyte model.

later in the same
Now Apple will get its money, say $500, up front and it no longer has 
to police what people do with them.
which I guess is a fair estimate.

What this means is of course significantly higher monthly fees.

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Re: resolution preferences??

2008-06-06 Thread Kalle Happonen
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:
 On 6/6/08, NeilBrown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 On Fri, June 6, 2008 3:39 pm, Carsten Haitzler wrote:

 
 we can just drive the vga screen at qvga. no need for scaling - just
 change the
 output at the lcd controller level. but it is a waste to pay for a vga
 screen
 when we won't use it. also it does look blocky. it isn't about glamo or
 not -
 it's separate to glamo entirely. simply - how important is a vga screen...
 really? how many people out there can really see the difference? be really
 honest. stop thinking my specs are bigger than your specs. scan u REALLY
 see
 all the pixels on a vga screen of that size. i bet to most people its all
 a
 blur - a qvga screen looks identical to them. only to a minority who have
 very
 good eyesight does it really make a difference, but this is just my bet.
 i'm
 asking the question - and hoping for real honest answers.
   
 Well, it's hard to know without having an actual device to look at, but
 I'll try

 My notebook has a 15 inch 1920x1200 monitor which comes to 147dpi.
 The Freerunner is 285dpi, the pixels are very close to half the width/
 height of my pixels.

 So at first I thought wow, that's tiny.  I don't think I need them *that*
 small - and I have better than average eye sight.

 Then I resized my browser to 640x480 and found I could read it quite
 well, though lots of web pages don't quite fit.
 I took a screenshot of the window and displayed it at 50% in the GIMP.
 So presumably that is how the image could look on the Freerunner.
 

 No. Now you need to zoom 2x. Then compare the original with this.
 They should occupy the same amount of space on your screen, but
 the QVGA should only have half the pixels.

   
No again :). Someone has mentioned this before, but I thought I'd clear 
this up since it's come up a few times. QVGA stands for Quarter VGA 
(320*240 = 75kpix), so it's 1/4 of the pixels of real VGA (640*480 = 
300kpix). Half the height and you have half the pixels, after that half 
the width and 1/4 remains.


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Re: Illume / ASU on GTA01 - Video

2008-06-05 Thread Kalle Happonen
thomasg wrote:
 Hi list,

 there are still many people who don't know about ASU, and about the 
 change in the Openmoko distribution - and there are not many videos, too.
 So I decided to do a small video to show what it looks like, what it 
 behaves like and some of the next-generation apps.

 I took my Neo (still gta01), flashed one of the qtopia-x11 images[1] 
 (that's what ASU is at moment!) and played around.
 It's far away from being complete, it's not perfect and it surely 
 doesn't show what will come, but I hope it will show you what the 
 softwareguys at openmoko are working on and what the future will look 
 alike.
 Here it is: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/openmoko/illume_intro.mkv (16 
 MB, ~3.5 min)
 I hope you don't mind getting no crappy flashvideo this time, but a 
 500 kbps h264 with vorbis sound.
 Feel free to download, share, and whatever you want.

 P.S. Excuse my bad english, I'm not a native speaker :(

Thanks for the great vid. It's exciting to see what we'll be able to get 
our hands on. And epic music :). And my 2 cents (eurocents), 
downloadable real video  flash in most cases.

Kalle


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Re: Stylus Recommendation

2008-05-02 Thread Kalle Happonen
I've actually thought about the stylus issue, and it's a small shame 
that there isn't storage for the stylus within the freerunner itself. 
One idea would be to make a magnetic flat stylys that should attach 
itself to the back of the Freerunner? Its profile could be be shaped 
like this |) with a place for a nail to get it loose, and pointy ends. 
This way it would probably stay with the freerunner and it would be 
easily accessible. I'd probably try doing something like this myself if 
I had some experience in that field.


Cheers,
Kalle



Tom Russell wrote:

I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than
necessary.  I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher
http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74
It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it
everywhere.  While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will
come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been
a great tool.

Regards,
Tom


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Re: new main page of our wiki

2008-04-17 Thread Kalle Happonen

Sebastian Hammerl wrote:


Steven Le Roux schrieb:



crash your win, install a debian/gentoo or any other real good OS... 
then try again :)



i use linux with opera

no windows!
Ah, so do I, but it looks good here. You might want to play around with 
the author mode/user mode settings (and/or update to newest opera). If 
this page doesn't look good, there's a big chance that other pages have 
problems as well.


Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Accelerometer brainstorming

2008-03-31 Thread Kalle Happonen

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:


Do you think it's possible to use traits of a person's walk for 
identification? Never heard about something like this. Interesting 
idea, if it turns out implementable.


I remember seeing some research results about this a few years back. 
Using a phone with accelerometers they managed to identify different 
persons from their walk with about a 90% accuracy IIRC. So it seems to 
be completely feasible, but I doubt that it's trivial.


Kalle


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