Re: Alternatives to FR

2010-02-12 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote:



 Lowell Higley higleylh-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org
 writes:
  So I would say that no, the device drivers will not be open
  source. I would say the developer community would be provided with
  binary kernel modules.

 I guess that would be very likely to be considered a GPL violation
 then.


I guess I should read the mailing lists more often. Food for thought, not
even android is GPL.  Since this thread, I have found their SDK license.
I'm not a lawyer so it is thoroughly confusing to me.  Some things seem to
be open source and others are not. If I read their license right, their
Plazma OS (which is linux based) is not open source... which to me IS a GPL
violation.  Again.. not a lawyer.  I'm thinking of sending the license on to
an acquaintance at the FSF and getting his read.  If anyone is interested,
I'll update here.  If not, I won't.
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Re: [Shr-User] Alternatives to FR

2010-01-10 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Marc-Olivier Barre
ma...@marcochapeau.orgwrote:

 On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:58:38 +0100, Lowell Higley higle...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:12 AM, William Kenworthy
  bi...@iinet.net.auwrote:
 
  What alternatives to the FR (with the same functionality) are there?  I
  want 3G phone/sms access and the FR doesnt cut it any more ...
 
 
  Sorry to join the conversation so late but this is my favorite so far as
 a
  FreeRunner replacement.  There should be a public developer release soon.
  I'd guess (based on the pricing of the Zii Egg Dev kit) a dev kit would
 be a
  little pricey (US$600 to US$800.)  Although considering an unlocked Nexus
  One is US$530... maybe not.  All perspective I suppose.
 
  Zii Trinity http://www.ziilabs.com/products/platforms/ziitrinity.aspx

 Hi,

 First mail in a while that even catches my attention ! Thanks for that.

 Do you know if they provide open sourced drivers for their hardware ?

 Cheers,
 --
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 XMPP ID : ma...@marcochapeau.org
 www.MarcOChapeau.org
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No problem.  This came to me over identi.ca and my jaw dropped the more
reading I did.

I don't have a real answer for you.  I've been trying to get into the dev
forums but they have some .asp issues with their site. But here is my best
guess. ZiiLabs is a wholly owned subsidary of Creative Labs. If I read their
propaganda correctly, they will support both android and their own version
of linux, plaszma.  It looks like they will provide tweaked versions of
android, drivers and middleware to the dev community.  So I would say that
no, the device drivers will not be open source.  I would say the developer
community would be provided with binary kernel modules. My best guess but
the official answer would have to come from ZiiLabs.  I'm also guessing a
dev NDA would be involved.  On the other side of the coin, engadget, gizmodo
and most of the gadget news sites keep speaking of the device as Open
Source... so you never know.

They seem to be actively looking for OEMs for this phone.  Perhaps one of
our FR distributors could inquire?  I'm considering dropping $400 on the Zii
Egg dev kit just to start playing with it.  I'd rather have the Trinity but
I am not sure how long that will take.
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Re: [Shr-User] Alternatives to FR

2010-01-09 Thread Lowell Higley
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 2:12 AM, William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.auwrote:

 What alternatives to the FR (with the same functionality) are there?  I
 want 3G phone/sms access and the FR doesnt cut it any more ...


Sorry to join the conversation so late but this is my favorite so far as a
FreeRunner replacement.  There should be a public developer release soon.
I'd guess (based on the pricing of the Zii Egg Dev kit) a dev kit would be a
little pricey (US$600 to US$800.)  Although considering an unlocked Nexus
One is US$530... maybe not.  All perspective I suppose.

Zii Trinity http://www.ziilabs.com/products/platforms/ziitrinity.aspx
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Re: [Shr-User] Babiloo on Openmoko - Second milestone

2009-11-23 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Vaudano Luca vaud...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys,

 I just release the second milestone of Babiloo, a offline dictionaries
 reader, for SHR.
 Please note that it works only with MrMoku SHR branch.

 Babiloo for Neo page:
 http://babiloo-project.org/wiki/index.php/Babiloo:Neo

 Ciao
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First of all, great app.  However, I am having some troubles with the latest
Neo milestone. I am using the 19Nov SHR-Unstable image (with packages
updated as of this morning) and Babiloo Second Milestone (2.0.9-2).

Problem:
Search only uses first or first two characters of a the word in any search.
Example, I search on hello and babiloo responds with word h not found.
I have tried multiple dictionaries and many different words, all with the
same problem. What am I doing wrong?

Other comments
Any message babiloo displays always stay on top.  If I switch to another app
or to the desktop, any message babiloo might display (such as loading
dictionary.. stays on top.  Even on the lock screen.

Thanks!
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Re: [ALL] POLL: What distro do you use?

2009-09-01 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote:

 (I personally think that we've already seen what we want: what's the
 most popular distro, and how much more popular it is than the others
 and the same for the boot loader - I'm sure the results will not
 radically change, and OTOH my guess is that people who don't read
 theses lists etc are not that active in using it either.. I might be
 wrong of course)

 r



I completely agree... over 275 respondents with SHR claiming 65% of the
usage votes.  I don't think carrying on the poll will alter the results
significantly.
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Re: [ALL] POLL: What distro do you use?

2009-09-01 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Patryk Benderz patryk.bend...@esp.plwrote:

 [cut]
 
  I completely agree... over 275 respondents with SHR claiming 65% of
  the usage votes.  I don't think carrying on the poll will alter the
  results significantly.
 So, you assume almost no one reads CU? In that case maybe we should stop
 releasing CUs


Holy moly... where did that come from? By CU I am hoping you mean Community
Update.  I did not mention nor did I consider the CU in my statement.  I
don't know how many people read the CU but I would GUESS that the majority
of the readers are on this mailing list and have already responded to the
poll.  Regardless, It would not hurt to include it in the CU if there will
be one soon.  I apologize if I hit an unseen nerve (and it seems I did.)
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Re: [shr-unstable] making bricks...

2009-06-28 Thread Lowell Higley
There's been a change to the bootloader.. the following text was from a
message that came across the developer mailing list back in April.

*As this looks like it's becoming a Frequently Asked Question, I'll send
this note to a wider audience.  Please forgive me if this is obvious to
most of the folks on this list.

After flashing or upgrading distros or bootloaders, some folks have been
noticing that their usb0 network interface on the *host* side fails to
appear when the Freerunner is plugged into the USB port.

Alert users have noticed that it didn't really fail to appear, rather it
changed name from usb0 to eth1 (or eth2, etc).

What's happening here is that certain bootloaders and certain distros
have begun to use the official USB mac address assigned by Openmoko to
the Freerunner, instead of letting the kernel generate a random address
in the locally-assigned range.  Many hosts will respond differently when
they observe the official (static) mac address; instead of creating the
usb0 interface, they will create and permanently assign an ethn
interface name to that mac address.*

I think there was also an update to the USB Networking page.

Lowell

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 2009-06-28, Vikas Saurabh vikas.saur...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM, jeremy jozwikjerjoz.for...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  hello list. im in dire need of assistance. ive just re-flashed my
  phone to shr-unstable 20090624 all went well until i tried to do an
  ssh. turns out my usb0 is not showing up in anyway.
 
  Try eth0. Recent kernels(I guess freerunner's driver) have started
  registering the device properly and hence it shows up as a network
  interface

 i doubt it will be eth0. more likely eth2 or something later

 run ifconfig to find out

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Re: [shr-unstable] making bricks...

2009-06-28 Thread Lowell Higley
As root, I drop the following in a terminal:

*iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth1
ifconfig eth1 up
ssh r...@192.168.0.202*

Works like a charm.  Only caveat is make sure you clear the previous SSH
signature out of .ssh/known_hosts

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 5:57 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.comwrote:

 also...

 [r...@localhost sbin]# sudo ip address add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth1
 Cannot find device eth1

 1-8 exactly...


 On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:55 AM, jeremy jozwikjerjoz.for...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  with the freerunner connected to machine:
 
  [r...@localhost sbin]# ./ifconfig
  eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  blah blah blah
 
  loLink encap:Local Loopback
   blah blah blah
 
 
 
  On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 11:57 PM, Robin Paulsonrobin.paul...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On 2009-06-28, Vikas Saurabh vikas.saur...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM, jeremy jozwik
 jerjoz.for...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  hello list. im in dire need of assistance. ive just re-flashed my
  phone to shr-unstable 20090624 all went well until i tried to do an
  ssh. turns out my usb0 is not showing up in anyway.
 
  Try eth0. Recent kernels(I guess freerunner's driver) have started
  registering the device properly and hence it shows up as a network
  interface
 
  i doubt it will be eth0. more likely eth2 or something later
 
  run ifconfig to find out
 
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Re: [shr-unstable] making bricks...

2009-06-28 Thread Lowell Higley
Two comments and then I need to hit the road.

1) I tried using a SHR unstable image a few days ago (the 26th I believe)
and found that it had some serious issues and went back to my previous
image.  I was able to SSH in but I wasn't able to do small things like
receive SMS or make/receive calls.  I could send SMS, though.
2) I have never used SELinux (never really been that paranoid?)  So I can't
speak to that error.  I'm using a gentoo based distro and not having that
issue.

Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is did you update the
kernel and the bootloader as well?  If not, try that that, too.  I'd
download the latest image of each (including rootfs) and try again.  After
that, I am out of ideas.

Ok... two hour drive to work.  Good luck and hope it works out for you.


On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:10 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.comwrote:

 returns:

 [r...@localhost sbin]# ./ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth1
 Cannot find device eth1

 also got a lovely little notification on the linux system bar
 SELinux is preventing the iptables from using potentially mislabeled
 files


 On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Lowell Higleyhigle...@gmail.com wrote:
  As root, I drop the following in a terminal:
 
  iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
  sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
  ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth1
  ifconfig eth1 up
  ssh r...@192.168.0.202
 
  Works like a charm.  Only caveat is make sure you clear the previous SSH
  signature out of .ssh/known_hosts
 


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Re: how dangerous Freerunner could be?

2009-06-07 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:30 PM, ivvmm unachieva...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 20:37, ivvmmunachieva...@gmail.com wrote:
  koolu.com wrongly sent North American variant of devices to our
 European
  country in a pack. So what we got now is that devices operate only on
  1800MHz frequency. That's twice bigger than 900MHz.
 
  This is a joke, right? In Europe GSM frequencies are 900 and 1800MHz,
  in USA 850 and 1900
 

 Sorry. Wrongly typed that. It is written GSM: 850/1800/1900 under the
 battery of my Frerunner.


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I live in Europe (but from the US) and use the US variant of the phone... I
have absolutely no issues related to the frequency.  It works like a champ.
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Re: how dangerous Freerunner could be?

2009-06-07 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:49 PM, David Reyes Samblas Martinez 
da...@tuxbrain.com wrote:

 ivvmm, frequency(in in the range we are talking about) is not the
 harming factor is power (Watts) and in both frequencies the power will
 be the same so as mentioned avobe the only harm you can recieve from a
 US version is rare case of lack of coverage in some rural zones of
 Europe.


I live in Kosovo... I don't know how you can get more rural than that. lol.




 LOL for the chicken sacrifice, a BBQ always helps!

 2009/6/7 Lowell Higley higle...@gmail.com:
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:30 PM, ivvmm unachieva...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote:
   On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 20:37, ivvmmunachieva...@gmail.com wrote:
   koolu.com wrongly sent North American variant of devices to our
   European
   country in a pack. So what we got now is that devices operate only on
   1800MHz frequency. That's twice bigger than 900MHz.
  
   This is a joke, right? In Europe GSM frequencies are 900 and 1800MHz,
   in USA 850 and 1900
  
 
  Sorry. Wrongly typed that. It is written GSM: 850/1800/1900 under the
  battery of my Frerunner.
 
 
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  I live in Europe (but from the US) and use the US variant of the phone...
 I
  have absolutely no issues related to the frequency.  It works like a
 champ.
 
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 --
 David Reyes Samblas Martinez
 http://www.tuxbrain.com
 Open ultraportable  embedded solutions
 Openmoko, Openpandora,  Arduino
 Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!

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Analyst Angle: The dark side of the open OS handset trend

2008-12-15 Thread Lowell Higley
I debated for about 10 minutes whether or not this article is pertinent to
this mailing list.  In the end, I decided to forward it.  I think it's a
good sign that the analysts are even looking at the open handset trend.
Operative word is trend, perhaps?

http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/20081215/WIRELESS/812129981/1026/newsletter30

So if this inappropriate, please forgive me.
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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Lowell Higley
ATT in the US does offer SIMs without a phone.  However, you have to go
into a Corporate store.  The resellers generally won't or can't do this.  I
do not know, however, if they offer SIMs with contracts.  To my knowledge,
they only do this with pay as you go SIMs.

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:41 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
  when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was
  unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it.

 TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and
 I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had
 an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card
 for it.

 I'm sure ATT would do the same if you simply walk into the store and
 tell them you want to purchase a SIM card for an unlocked phone you
 already own, and that you just want the SIM card.

 -id

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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Lowell Higley
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Kevin Dean writes:
 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  US.  To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone
  *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from is (it actually
  worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these
  months as a result).
 
 I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it obvious
 that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service
 (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no
 matter what phone you have.

 Because the price of the free phone is bundled into the price of the
 contract.  If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one.

 In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of
 PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the
 service contract doesn't.
 
 
 
 The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to
 pay up front - on can choose the phone for free with one set of
 tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes
 for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can
 also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved.
 
 
 Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just
 look at cellular service differently than Americans. You are
 implying that the contract is the monthly service of voice/data
 connectivity and a handset. In the US, ONLY the monthly service of
 voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're
 ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at
 some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then
 financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying
 the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the
 cost of it in installments monthly.
 
 But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data
 connectivity) remains the same price.

 Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long
 enough to pay for the phone, or pay for the phone under the guise of
 an early termination fee.

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If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all over
the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again).
One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to protect
the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business.  I
could give many examples but I think this whole contact vs. no contract
discussion is a perfect example. imho.

Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like.
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Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?

2008-06-11 Thread Lowell Higley
Dismal.  although ATT is currently scurrying to significantly upgrade their
3G network in order to support iPhone 2.0.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800cdvn=newsnewsarticleid=25146

I don't think TMobile currently uses 3G.  I barely even got EDGE coverage
from Tmobile when I left the States last month.  Only when in major markets.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Nkoli wrote:
  ...
  As a tmobile USA (non New York) user, 3G can wait till 2009 for all I
  care, but EDGE is definitely a necessity. Since the rest of the world
  will have been using 3G for 2-5 years by the time GTA03 is released,
  not having 3G in that device will be a really bad idea. Forget the
  camera, unless it is at least 3.2 MP with xenon or dual led flash.
  ...
 Just out of curiosity - for all Americans here ... what is the
 availability of 3g service in the States?

 Rob

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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Lowell Higley
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Please note this is an OFF LIST reply, since it is off topic for
 Openmoko mailing lists.


Huh?  I agree, this is off topic but your reply did go out to the entire
list.



 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all
 over
  the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again).
  One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to
 protect
  the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business.

 Why do you instantly assume there two sides are opposed to each other?
 Now, let me say I agree that corporations (definition: a legal entity
 recognized by the government for the purpose of shielding the
 individual for personal responsibillity for their actions) are in
 general a bad thing since it means if a person does something bad
 while conducting business they don't suffer penalties. If, however, a
 person running an honest business manages to be big, I see nothing
 wrong at ALL with them.


 Businesses (big AND small) provide services and products to people.
 They don't use violence to get what they want (even Microsoft doesn't
 send the police or military to your house for refusing to buy their
 licenses). If people said I don't like how you conduct business and I
 refuse to give you my money! those businesses (large and small) would
 stop doing that thing because they want to stay in business!


First, the observation was a generalization.. notice the word tend.  No
assumptions were made.  No one said the two sides were opposed.  If that
is something you drew from the observation then I think that is something
you added...not me.  Again, notice the words tend to.  Nothing is absolute
nor did I infer it was. Perhaps I should have used the verbage laws tend to
favor and not protect?  Would that make a difference?



  I could give many examples but I think this whole contact vs. no
 contract
  discussion is a perfect example. imho.

 I was raised as a liberal Democrat. That said, I can sit back and
 (with the best of them) argue the liberal perspective about how big
 business takes advantage of the little guy/working class.

 I was also raised to believe that I should question everything and not
 accept what other people tell me without some proof. In EVERY
 arguement against big business there is one key factor - the
 government. How big might Microsoft be if the government (which
 funds every government school and university in just about every
 nation of the world) didn't pick teachers who demanded their
 assignments be submitted in .doc format? How many business might exist
 worldwide if the government didn't mandate licenses and zoning and all
 kinds of other things that prevent people (who create wealth by simply
 existing!) who have very little money from starting honest businesses
 and earning money by providing services and goods to people? How many
 deaths might be avoided if the government let people and their doctors
 determine if a medication was safe enough for their specific
 situation?


No one has asked you to accept anything.   It was merely a personal
observation.  It was not some sort of law or edict I came down from the
hills with to force on anyone. If you want evidence of why I believe my
observation is correct, I'd be happy to share them with you. However, I
don't think this is the time or place for it.


 
  Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like.

 I don't mean to shoot you down. I just find it disconcerning how many
 people attack business owners, demand regulation which forces up
 prices and reduces control and than blame businesses for increased
 prices and decreased control. Hopefully some people will critically
 evaluate things...


No one attacked business owners.  I merely pointed out a difference *I*
believe exists in the laws between the US and Europe.  Not once did I ever
say business(es), big or small, was doing anything wrong in either the US or
Europe.  Again, if you would like I will share with you why I believe my
observation is true... I could also point out why I think both systems is
good for consumers and business alike (they would obviously be different
lists). However, I don't think it is appropriate to post to the list because
it is wildly off topic, as you previously highlighted.

Sometimes I think messages on this list get blown way out of proportion.
Right now, I believe that is the case with this entire thread.  If I
offended anyone with my observation, I apologize, that was not my intent.


 
 
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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Lowell Higley
I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still have to
pay for your phone service and data service.  So if you spend US$50/mo on a
data plan, it does come out to be more expensive with the FreeRunner if and
*only if* you plan to use the phone for two years.  if you plan on ditching
it in a year, then the FreeRunner is much cheaper (you have that contract
buy out fee).

Thankfully, I have a pay as go SIM card that allows me to use GPRS.  I pay
about 10 Euros (US$15) a month with my current total usage (voice and
data).  Somehow I see that going way up when I get the FreeRunner just with
the data I'll be using.  I pay roughly 4 Euro Cents per 10kb.  In this case,
the iPhone is way more expensive than an iPhone.

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 You've forgotten about the extra grand and a half in contract charges.
 (that's just in the US, I hate to think what they'll be like here in
 Canada).

 Seems inexpensive to me :)

 On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Jorge . wrote:

 
  Hello everyone,
 
  I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone
 knows their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason
 to buy an openmoko is the freedom.
 
  But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will
 cost only $199 USD and it automatically makes the OpenMoko phone expensive,
 because they have similar characteristics... this could discourage many
 possible buyers, for purely economical reasons.
 
  I dont know if the FreeRunner price can be changed at this moment, but
 now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms of price.
 
 
  Best wishes
 
 
 
  _
  Stop squinting -- view your photos on your TV.  Learn more.
 
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/default.mspx?deepLink=photos
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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 A $600 SUBSIDIZED phone on a 2 year contract ($200 up front cost to
 subscriber) VS a $200 moko UNSUBSIDIZED phone PLUS a 2 year contract.

 Of course they are bloody the same price up front, THE MOKO ISN'T
 SUBSIDIZED.



Moko phone $200?!?!?!  Did I miss something? crossing fingers
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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

2008-06-10 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 i remember reading somewhere that the iphone's os can't run multiple
 applications at once - sorry no source for this. did i get this right,
 if i did, that's a major bonus to om/freerunner?


It's not that it can't... If I recall correctly, Apple made the decision
to have only one app running at a time (ie kill game should the phone
ring) in order to conserve battery.  That was a discussion I had almost a
year ago over several pints of ale... so my recollection may be off.
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Re: Landscape keyboard

2008-06-09 Thread Lowell Higley
I think it's a great idea.  Kin to the old ergonomic keyboards.

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ...The keyboard itself has very minimal needs in terms of resolution, but
 it
 steals about a third of the screen in portrait mode, more in landscape
 -- 640x480 is probably a bare minimum.


 Chris's comment about the keyboard in landscape mode popped an image into
 my head.  Maybe it's been mentioned already, but I don't recall.  The
 keyboard for landscape mode could be split in two and have half on the
 right, and half on the left.  I think that may make it more suitable for
 thumb typing and take less area away.

 Someone will probably ask me to mock it up, but I'm a HW guy, so you really
 don't want me to try :)

 --Steve M

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Re: OT: TinyURL [Was: OT: ajax image galleries]

2008-06-04 Thread Lowell Higley
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Am Do  5. Juni 2008 schrieb AVee:
  On Wednesday 04 June 2008 22:55, Andy Powell wrote:
  
   tinyurl is useful instead of typing in twattishly long urls which many
   sites insist on using. Generally you don;t want to click on a link
 provided
   by someone you don't know/trust. Not only that but if I use this url as
 an
   example - look what your mail client / this mailing list does to it
 (break
   it on wrap)
 
  If looked, the long url is perfectly fine, on one line and clickable. So
 the
  mailing list doesn't break anything, neither does does my mail client.
 
  Having said that, tinyurl might actually make live easier for some people
  (e.g. those who should get a decent mail client), I don't 'hate' them.
 But
  please at least also include the original url. These mails are archived
 and
  both the email and the linked page may outlive the tinyurl service. You
 might
  end up loosing usefull information there.

 +1. Never consider to click a tiny-url
 /j

 btw: my URLs I see aren't mangled in any way
 btw2: html-only postings are skipped by default

 @admin: could we have a filter for this?

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+1.. If I don't know what I'm clicking... I don't click. I don't think I've
ever even considered clicking a TinyURL.
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Re: QTopia Contacts issue

2008-05-29 Thread Lowell Higley
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Now that I have so many contacts, it would be nice if you had more control
 over the list format. The only choices I see (under Options-Display
 Settings) are First Last or Company and
 Last,First or Company. I'd like to see an option that allowed company
 names and person names to be intermixed, so I had one big alphabetical list.

 Should this kind of thing go to the QTopia mailing list or forums, or
 should we still post general QTopia issues found under OM to this list?


I've never used QTopia but how about something like by groups?  A lot of
phones offer the option of grouping contacts (work, family, and even user
defined groups).  It would be nice to extend this and then be able to filter
by group?   Perhaps QTopia already has that feature?

I can't answer the original question but I thought I would throw that tidbit
in.
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Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)

2008-04-29 Thread Lowell Higley
Ok.. I'm severely jet lagged but I will try to throw some closure on this
and hope it is coherent.   Steve has been very cordial and enlightening in
his mails to me.  The last I have yet to digest and respond to but overall
it is good, constructive stuff. After reading the diaglogue that has ensued,
I totally understand why he wanted to take the conversation private.  We'll
has some things and go from there.  Sorry for starting a firestorm.

I want to let everyone know I don't intend to be negative and that was why I
sent that last message.  If I see problems, I want to offer solutions.  I
also want to thank Stroller for his phenomenal job for capturing (and
translating) what I was trying to say.

There was one statement made that I want to comment on...

I mean marketing is really just how to sellSNIP

That statement could not be farther from the truth, IMHO.  I think any Tech
CEO worth his salt would tell you the same.   That very statement and belief
is why so many startups in Silicon Valley (and probably worldwide) with very
amazing products have gone bankrupt. I have friends that lived through that
nightmare.  That mindset is the very essence of the problem my original
e-mail was trying to address.  I couldn't have summed it better myself.  It
makes it sound like engineering comes up with a product all on it's own,
throws it over a wall and to Marketing and says here, sell it. Kind of
like a hot potato. That was the case once... in the 60's, I believe.

Today, any company that had that mindset would not last long unless they had
very deep pockets. Yes, I have a specific company in mind.  My thought is
let's roll that marketing effort over to this project from a community
perspective.  A lot of Open Source projects already do it.. Open Office is
the first one that comes to mind.  One of the thing I want to do with Steve
is draw some boundaries... What is in Openmoko's court, and what is in the
community's court regarding marketing... etc.

In the meantime, let's roll out the FreeRunner and once it's out, well
attack the next project publicly.  Ok.. I'm going to sleep now. :)  Cheers!

Lowell

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:58 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  thanks for explaining that to folks


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stroller
 Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:01 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)


 On 28 Apr 2008, at 17:54, hank williams wrote:

  I have to say my unvoiced thoughts were the same as Ryan's. I was
  not at all clear why a call for the community to help figure
  marketing stuff out would be met by a request to take the
  discussion off list as though it was somehow inappropriate for
  public discussion. It seemed like a very strange response. Now
  reading the responses to Ryan's comments seem even more strange. I
  feel like I am missing something because the responses to Ryan's
  comments seem on the surface, inappropriate as well.


 If you read further back in this thread you'll see that the subject
 changed in reply to my message, Re: Ugliness  (26 April 2008
 13:58:04 BST).

 If you read back you'll see that before that someone was complaining
 the Freerunner will never sell in the mass-market because me  my
 friends think it's ugly, and my counterpoint was, heck, I'm sure
 FIC have done some market research (focus groups c).

 Lowell Higley obviously knows his stuff regarding selling tech
 products, and he raises some interesting points. I immediately wanted
 to reply to them, but I could have spent hours doing so. Not to argue
 with him, just to purse interesting avenues of discussion.

 But Lowell's insights are far more in depth than your average Xbox vs
 Playstation, who's-winning-the-format-war, fanbois' forum thread. As
 Lowell says:

   Marketing is much more than holding focus groups and creating sales
   copy.  There is competitive analysis, business cases, marketing
   requirements, negotiating with engineering over the final product,
   schedule.. and the list goes on.  My point is, as I look at things
   and put the picture together, I see no strong marketing presence
   in the FreeRunner.  Where's the MRD?  Where's the focus group?
   Where's the business case?

 In case you don't speak the business jargon, competitive analysis
 means how much does the competition sell for, how much will it cost
 us to make a similar product and how much profit can we make?.

 Business cases and the results of focus groups, say FIC stating
 that you  your friends may think it's ugly, but we reckon we can
 sell XX thousand units and make $yyy profit aren't really any of
 our business.

 In his second message (27 April 2008 18:16:11 BST) Lowell raises the
 goal of the OpenMoko project, which is ostensibly the best
 possible mobile phone software stack that can be installed over a
 wide range of phones. But underlying

Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)

2008-04-27 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 5:58 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 So please don't be offended but saying I don't like it and neither do my
 friends is totally irrelevant - come back when you've interviewed a hundred
 different people and they've scored the Freerunner (alongside several other
 phones) in a range of 1 - 10 on size, colour, design attractiveness,
 comfort-to-hold and so on. You need to establish with each respondent why
 they chose their last phone - was price a factor? features? You can probably
 rule out everyone who got their phone free from their mobile supplier,
 because the Freerunner's market is those who are prepared to pay a premium
 for the features they want in a phone. Now interview another 100 people,
 those who are prepared to pay a premium for the features they want in a
 smart- or business-phone - do they find the Freerunner attractive or ugly?
 Do they care?


 I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you so I'll just dump my thoughts
 and you decide..

 I have spent the majority of my adult life in hi-tech, and much of that in
 product marketing.  My specialty has been taking engineering driven
 projects and turning them into actual market driven products.  I have come
 into multi-million dollar projects and bet the engineering team a month's
 salary that they would sell less than x products.  Why? Because they had
 NO clue what the customers wanted.  They just built what THEY wanted.  Each
 time I made that bet, I won.  No, I never collected the money but my point
 was made.

 When I see a product I like and it doesn't seem to have marketing polish
 I do a little informal research. I ask various people what they think.
 These people aren't my friends.  Ok, some of them are but not many.  No, it
 isn't a full focus group but I have learned over the years as a professional
 marketer than I can get a pretty good idea of how a product would sell based
 on the feedback I get from my little research projects.  Just informal chats
 with people on their likes and dislikes.  There was a statement someone made
 earlier about us techie types forcing complex phones with unwanted features
 down people's throats.  VERY true statement.  Unfortunately, the FreeRunner
 Consumer Edition will have to fight products like the iPhone head to head.
 Consumers see the bling of the iPhone and have very high expectations, all
 based on cosmetcis and the wow factor.  To make matters even worse, if you
 can't get the FCE (FreeRunner Consumer Edition) into the phone shops
 (Orange, TMobile, etc.) it will never sell big numbers.  In Europe I think
 there is a better chance of that happening.  In the US, the carriers LOVE
 their closed, crippled phones.  The deck is stacked against Openmoko ever
 making inroads as a major Treo, Blackberry or iPhone alternative.  Maybe
 this niche market it perfect for them?

 To me, FreeRunner has the smell of being an engineering driven project.
 Shawn has put a lot of effort in making it marketing driven but I don't see
 the conclusive results. (Forgive me Shawn)  I do acknowledge at this point
 that we are NOT targeting consumers.  That's ok.  But if we all want this
 product to REALLY succeed, we have to at some point.  Who knows, perhaps
 Shawn has a business case that involves just the niche market of hobbiests
 and developers such as ourselves. At one point I asked on this list how the
 design was derived.  I received no response from the core team but did get a
 heresay response that a company approached FIC to make a prototype, which
 they did.  That company then decided not to go forward, Shawn got a hold of
 the prototype and Openmoko was born.  If that story is true, I don't see any
 overt marketing involved there on FIC's part.

 Marketing is much more than holding focus groups and creating sales copy.
 There is competitive analysis, business cases, marketing requirements,
 negotiating with engineering over the final product, schedule.. and the
 list goes on.  My point is, as I look at things and put the picture
 together, I see no strong marketing presence in the FreeRunner.  Where's the
 MRD?  Where's the focus group?  Where's the business case?  I'm not saying
 this to throw dirt on the Openmoko project, just to point out that there is
 a LOT of work involved on the part of marketing.  Most of it we never see
 and perhaps we shouldn't.

 Let's look at this another way.. I have spent most of my professional life
 in Silicon Valley... Home of Apple, Netscape, Google, and Yahoo,  Between
 1998 and 2001, I received invites almost weekly to interview with some new
 startup.  Sometimes I would accept and go talk to them.  In two years, I
 probably interviewed with 15 companies.  I would always insist on talking
 with the Director of Engineering (or whatever his title was) prior to
 talking offer, etc.  I would always ask the same question.  Why do you want
 to hire a Marketing

Re: Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)

2008-04-26 Thread Lowell Higley
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 5:58 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So please don't be offended but saying I don't like it and neither do my
friends is totally irrelevant - come back when you've interviewed a hundred
different people and they've scored the Freerunner (alongside several other
phones) in a range of 1 - 10 on size, colour, design attractiveness,
comfort-to-hold and so on. You need to establish with each respondent why
they chose their last phone - was price a factor? features? You can probably
rule out everyone who got their phone free from their mobile supplier,
because the Freerunner's market is those who are prepared to pay a premium
for the features they want in a phone. Now interview another 100 people,
those who are prepared to pay a premium for the features they want in a
smart- or business-phone - do they find the Freerunner attractive or ugly?
Do they care?


I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you so I'll just dump my thoughts
and you decide..

I have spent the majority of my adult life in hi-tech, and much of that in
product marketing.  My specialty has been taking engineering driven
projects and turning them into actual market driven products.  I have come
into multi-million dollar projects and bet the engineering team a month's
salary that they would sell less than x products.  Why? Because they had
NO clue what the customers wanted.  They just built what THEY wanted.  Each
time I made that bet, I won.  No, I never collected the money but my point
was made.

When I see a product I like and it doesn't seem to have marketing polish I
do a little informal research. I ask various people what they think.  These
people aren't my friends.  Ok, some of them are but not many.  No, it isn't
a full focus group but I have learned over the years as a professional
marketer than I can get a pretty good idea of how a product would sell based
on the feedback I get from my little research projects.  Just informal chats
with people on their likes and dislikes.  There was a statement someone made
earlier about us techie types forcing complex phones with unwanted features
down people's throats.  VERY true statement.  Unfortunately, the FreeRunner
Consumer Edition will have to fight products like the iPhone head to head.
Consumers see the bling of the iPhone and have very high expectations, all
based on cosmetcis and the wow factor.  To make matters even worse, if you
can't get the FCE (FreeRunner Consumer Edition) into the phone shops
(Orange, TMobile, etc.) it will never sell big numbers.  In Europe I think
there is a better chance of that happening.  In the US, the carriers LOVE
their closed, crippled phones.  The deck is stacked against Openmoko ever
making inroads as a major Treo, Blackberry or iPhone alternative.  Maybe
this niche market it perfect for them?

To me, FreeRunner has the smell of being an engineering driven project.
Shawn has put a lot of effort in making it marketing driven but I don't see
the conclusive results. (Forgive me Shawn)  I do acknowledge at this point
that we are NOT targeting consumers.  That's ok.  But if we all want this
product to REALLY succeed, we have to at some point.  Who knows, perhaps
Shawn has a business case that involves just the niche market of hobbiests
and developers such as ourselves. At one point I asked on this list how the
design was derived.  I received no response from the core team but did get a
heresay response that a company approached FIC to make a prototype, which
they did.  That company then decided not to go forward, Shawn got a hold of
the prototype and Openmoko was born.  If that story is true, I don't see any
overt marketing involved there on FIC's part.

Marketing is much more than holding focus groups and creating sales copy.
There is competitive analysis, business cases, marketing requirements,
negotiating with engineering over the final product, schedule.. and the
list goes on.  My point is, as I look at things and put the picture
together, I see no strong marketing presence in the FreeRunner.  Where's the
MRD?  Where's the focus group?  Where's the business case?  I'm not saying
this to throw dirt on the Openmoko project, just to point out that there is
a LOT of work involved on the part of marketing.  Most of it we never see
and perhaps we shouldn't.

Let's look at this another way.. I have spent most of my professional life
in Silicon Valley... Home of Apple, Netscape, Google, and Yahoo,  Between
1998 and 2001, I received invites almost weekly to interview with some new
startup.  Sometimes I would accept and go talk to them.  In two years, I
probably interviewed with 15 companies.  I would always insist on talking
with the Director of Engineering (or whatever his title was) prior to
talking offer, etc.  I would always ask the same question.  Why do you want
to hire a Marketing Manager?  The first 14 companies responded with
something like Because our venture funding says we have to.  If I pressed
the issue it would come out 

Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lowell Higley
Nine out of ten typical consumers I show it to think it's ugly and
wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.  If I show it to a techie type, I
get the what are the specs? question.  Lesson?  To the consumer, beauty is
only skin deep.  Us techie types are deeper and can see the true beauty.
Who woulda thunk it?

I'm kind of hoping someone does a lot of good with the freed CAD drawings.
Seeing as how I'm not willing to pay the exorbitant price for ProE, I won't
be able to do anything with it.

L

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/25/08, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Not soo easy.
  One thinks it look like a buttplug

 I do not agree. Many of my friends likes the design - believe it or not.
 And it is much better than many other phones out there - some even
 has this ugly keypads
 --
 Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
 See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

 Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
 URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774

 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lowell Higley
It was the GTA01.. the first pics I saw of the GTA02 was last week.  I
showed both colors of the GTA01.  I got the impression was it was the shape
that was a turn off but I am not sure because I never asked for that kind of
detail.  Although I do have to admit I'd never heard it called a buttplug
before.  That's an interesting observation.

If I were to make three recommendation for GTA03 (or whatever the consumer
version is going to be), it would be focus group, focus group, focus
group.

L

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Nine out of ten typical consumers I show it to think it's ugly and
 wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.


 Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in my
 opinion.

 But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in spite
 of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..

 ;
 --
 Jay Vaughan






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Re: 3G? What about CDMA?

2008-04-17 Thread Lowell Higley
I believe CDMA is a proprietary technology owned/licensed/patented by
Qualcom.  If that is correct, you'd have to license to use the patent.  Kind
of conflicts with the idea of an open phone.  I guess no more so than some
of the GSM stuff... but hey.. who knows.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Steven ** 
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I talk with friends and co-workers about OpenMoko and the Neo
 Freerunner all the time.  Inevitably, they say something like That's
 cool.  Will it work with Verizon? or That's cool.  Will it work with
 Sprint?.  And of course, the answer is no...  I don't think any of my
 friends are with att (even though they're supposedly the largest
 wireless carrier in the US) or any other GSM provider.  They're all on
 Sprint or Verizon.  I myself was originally on Verizon and switched to
 att solely for the Neo.  But most people aren't willing to do that
 (and most are locked into contracts with a $250+ early termination
 fee).

 So, have you considered making a CDMA version of the Neo?  I think
 that'd about double your sales in the US.

 -Steven

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Lowell Higley
Spare the case plastics (create an orderable part number) and have a Trick
out your Neo contest.  Grand prize?  An autographed photo of the Neo Team!
Or perhaps the remains of a Neo after the destructive tests.  If I could
buy an extra case for around US$20 to $30, I'd probably give it a whirl.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:05 AM, David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hey
 there is nothing more dearly than a happy developer
 dancing after a successfull test. :)

 Regarding colors, maybe in the massmarket phase being
 able to customice your case as a lot of comercial
 moviles will be a plus to fashion victims ( My female
 work college has his laptop, movile phone and mp3 all
 in hello-kitty pink!!!) but in this stage of the
 process where developers are the target, no matter
 what case neo has, meanwhile it do the job of protect
 their precious inner electronics.

 I not agree with the stiker solutions because is
 matter of time than the stiker become ugly rubbished
 and the hole phone become  stiky.

 The paint-it-yourself solution if you find a
 combination of case material//markers really permanet
 will be an original and great feature. sure there are
 some aerograph artist within us than can make very
 cool designs.




 --- ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 escribió:

  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
what you guys actually want to see me dance?
 
  Oh hm... YES! xD
 
  and also some of my female (and even male) friends
  asked about
  coloring: the preferred ones:
  -red
  -pink (yes, really)
  -blue
  -kiwi-green
 
  --
  My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org
 
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Re: End User Input....and Question

2008-04-16 Thread Lowell Higley
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:15 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The hardware is complete. But I assume that if hardware bugs are discovered,
it will be considered to fix them before the consumer release (depending on
the bug). Since all the software isn't ready yet, I guess it is impossible
to be 100% sure there are no bugs. But remember, they did a lot of testing,
so I guess the hardware is good.


There will be bugs.  I spent three years in hardware continuation
engineering and there were always bugs.  Most of them not a big deal.  I do
have to say this.  FIC used to be the vendor of our PC mainboards (when we
branded our own PCs) and they were always responsive once we detailed the
bug to them.  Sometimes it was a firmware fix, sometimes we had to modify
the mainboards (very rare).  The bottom line is there will most likely be
hardware bugs but I have great confidence that they will be appropriately
addressed by the Neo Team and FIC.
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I RARELY plug
anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture almost never.
The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is
completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer
that consumers would feel similarly.  My expectation of a cell phone (based
on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't
break this precedent with the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle
(connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.

That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on precedent, my
expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking about it now I realize
that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make.

Just my 4 1/2 cents.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
  2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
  normal charger?
 
  If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
  battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
  borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
  enough to fully charge the phone.

 There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
 great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

 I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
 you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
 works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
 whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
 to draw 500mA.

 It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
 home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
 devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
 Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
 around.

 So I just can second Steve:
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

 Marcus





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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
I think my main concern is I see USB Cable and USB Charger used
interchangeably in these messages.  They are not one and the same.  So which
is that we are talking about?

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A USB
 charger is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is
 simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall
 charger or a car charger.

 If you go to ebay and type in usb charger you get plenty of hits
 starting from a few dollars.

 The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB
 protocol and thus can't say hey, you can take as much as you want and
 I'll give you as much as I have. They simply offer voltage and current
 on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug.

 So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no
 answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB
 standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is
 some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more
 anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one
 from Apple or one from eBay.

 best,
 marcus


 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote:
  I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I
  RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture
  almost never.  The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer
  to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as
  a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly.  My
  expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall
  charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't break this precedent with
  the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a
  wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.
 
  That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
  modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on
  precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking
  about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to
  make.
 
  Just my 4 1/2 cents.
 
  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
   2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge
  the phone.
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
  
   How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger
  vs. a
   normal charger?
  
   If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours
  (1200 mAh
   battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that
  is really
   borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge
  won't be
   enough to fully charge the phone.
 
  There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists
  and the
  great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.
 
  I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing
  is that
  you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger
  and it
  works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a
  dialog
  whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if
  you want
  to draw 500mA.
 
  It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers
  for
  home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of
  other
  devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for
  charging.
  Finally there is an end coming to have all these different
  chargers
  around.
 
  So I just can second Steve:
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, you'll get used to it :)
USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as
any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on.

I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a computer,
it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a month.  I am
a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't always have
the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense?

I'm going to change the topic a little bit.  I'm a little concerned about
the direction of these messages.  It seems like the thought that goes into
them isn't that consumer focused.  It's more personal opinion based than
anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the
thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy.  I know
for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech
toys.  But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would
want to buy?  I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted
effort to make this a consumer device one day.  That was what I was trying
to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger.

Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of
the Neo1973.  You want to know what I hear?  Man, that's ugly!  That's
what I hear every time.  Now you're thinking so what? it's functional.
You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do.  I'm guessing
no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created.
It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what
consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie
types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the
customer.  I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a
great job pioneering the first freed phone.  Just maybe the consumer isn't
their/our focus?  And if not, will it ever be?

The bottom line is who is the target market for this product?  That's who I
am always going to answer questions for.  Anyways, I digress.  I'm sure I'll
get a few barbs/flames out of this one.

L
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Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
Then I'll shut up.  BTW,  I don't hate or love the visual look of the Neo.
It's more function than anything else to me.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Well, you'll get used to it :)
  USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well
  as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on.
 
  I know this isn't the case, but if were to HAVE to plug it into a
  computer, it would be a deal killer for me. I haven't been home in over a
  month.  I am a road warrior (I spend 80% of my time on the road) and I don't
  always have the option to pull out my laptop to charge my phone. Make sense?


 And I only charge my current phone from my laptop. An extra charger is no
 use to me.

 I'm going to change the topic a little bit.  I'm a little concerned about
  the direction of these messages.  It seems like the thought that goes into
  them isn't that consumer focused.  It's more personal opinion based than
  anything else, personal preference. My original statement was to reflect the
  thought of what a consumer expects (not want) in a phone they buy.  I know
  for now this is still a geeky device for those of like that like cool tech
  toys.  But isn't the end goal to create a device that end consumers would
  want to buy?  I see mentions here and there but I don't see a concerted
  effort to make this a consumer device one day.  That was what I was trying
  to say more than, hey, I have to have a wall charger.


 Right now we are focusing on the developer release. That is for geeks, not
 consumers.

 Let me give you another example... I've probably showed 20 people pics of
  the Neo1973.  You want to know what I hear?  Man, that's ugly!  That's
  what I hear every time.  Now you're thinking so what? it's functional.
  You and I may not care what it looks like, but consumers do.  I'm guessing
  no focus group was done by FIC way back when as the prototype was created.
  It was a bunch of techie/engineering types that generally have no clue what
  consumers want. I can say that because I used to be one of those techie
  types that focused on the technology versus the requirements of the
  customer.  I'm not trying to bash the team in any respect.. They've done a
  great job pioneering the first freed phone.  Just maybe the consumer isn't
  their/our focus?  And if not, will it ever be?


 I love the design. People have different taste.

 The bottom line is who is the target market for this product?  That's who
  I am always going to answer questions for.  Anyways, I digress.  I'm sure
  I'll get a few barbs/flames out of this one.


 I think the focus on a market product can really begin when all the
 developers got their phone. Now the focus must be on the developers.


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Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
My personal view is looking at the Neo as a Linux computer and not just
as a phone - this opens a completely different perspective: as such the
Neo is an absolutely unique device. There is only one similar device
which is the N810 but it lacks the GSM modem.

If you use that rational with Voda, Orange, T-Mobile, ATT, not to mention
an end consumer, I would expect you to get either a) a deer in the headlight
look or b) immense laughter.  I'm not trying to demean what you are saying.
For you the value is a cool Linux handheld that is completely open and
supported.  To you, there is strong value in that.  Carriers and, more
importantly, end consumers could care less about those things and thus don't
see value in them.  If it's not flashy and cool.. (which it most definitely
could be) they aren't interested.  Bottom line.  That was all I was trying
to say.

I've spent a great portion of my adult life in both engineering and
marketing roles in hi-tech companies.  I've seen the blunders made when
engineers lead the project with no marketing input.  I've seen really cool
products stay on the shelf because they simply didn't meet consumers'
requirements.  Why? Because engineers usually don't talk to customers.
That's what would happen with the current version of the Neo, in my
opinion.  Before you deliver a product to a customer, you need to first
ascertain what it is they want.  We've done a good job of that within the
community... but failed miserably outside the community.  IMHO.

I think that's all I will say for now.  Please don't hurt me. :)
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
Just trying to help.  Not terribly useful at the engineering stuff any more
so trying to help how I can. :)

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Thanks Lowell.



 The phone will ship with a wall charger.


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-13 Thread Lowell Higley
I would consider the following if I were in your shoes...

1) include the custom (closed) cable or at least make it an option
2) ensure the manual includes that a standard USB cable will work.  Be sure
to list the limitations of said cable. (I think the wiki has this but it
needs to be in the docs that go with the phone.)
... OR...
3) publish the pinout / construction of the custom cable.  Maybe publish the
BOM and your source of those items.  Perhaps a 3rd party could make a small
ebay fortune out of this item.

That's my two cents.

Lowell

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 4:13 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Charger is on the list of goodies. So, yes there will be a charger in the
 box.

 Going forward, I think we as a community need to discuss these issues.

 1. Do I supply a standard charger that follows the USB Spec. for example,
 A
 charger that you could buy anywhere.

 2. Do I Supply a CLOSED charger that only my phone can recognize?

 For me. custom is closed. Our high current charger is custom.its closed.

 This decision is mirrored in the battery decision.

 So, I have one group of people asking be to supply them with expensive
 custom parts
 And another group of people asking for accessories they can buy from
 anybody.

 let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories.








 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:23 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to
  add some  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

 There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a
 custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current?

 /Erland

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Re: 850MHz or 900MHz? ATT or TMobile?

2008-03-23 Thread Lowell Higley
I've had the exact opposite experience.  I had been a T-Mobile USA customer
for over three years..they made a mistake, even admitted to making the
mistake but wouldn't correct it (refunding money to me).  I've found that
T-Mobile's customer service is not great... each time I contact them, it
gets worse.  I switched to ATT when I came back from Europe in January.
Once I walked into a corporate store (not a reseller) all my questions were
answered and got what I wanted.  I've contacted customer service twice and
they've been good but not great.  Two totally different opinions on the same
issue... you'll just have to make up your own mind.

As far as technology, I think ATT has a slight edge... they are more
quickly deploying 3G from what I hear.  I travel a lot and when my phone
goes to a T-Mobile antenna I always get Edge and when on a Cingular/ATT
antenna I get 3G about 50% of the time.

ATT is definitely more expensive (like 20% more) but for the better
customer service, I think it is worth it.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:54 PM, thewtex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  Which would be the better provider for this area: ATT or TMobile?
 

 I have been a long time TMobile customer, but not in that area.  Their
 costumer
 service is superb and their prices are decent.

 I would not get ATT.  The have an illustrious history of being a monopoly
 and
 acting like one.  They treat their costumers as prey to be taken advantage
 of.
 They will try to lock you in.  They will spy on your calls and have no
 qualms
 about letting the government do the same.  Their costumer service is
 horrible.

 In some areas, their coverage may be better, maybe.  And, there may be
 better
 hardware out there than the Openmoko Freerunner.  But that is not the
 point.
 Get an Openmoko for the freedom and do not buy service from a company that
 willingly lets the government spy on your conversations.




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Re: 850MHz or 900MHz? ATT or TMobile?

2008-03-23 Thread Lowell Higley
I bought a tri-band phone while I lived in Europe.  It is 900Mhz/1900Mhz.  I
had no problems with it on T-Mobile's USA network while I was their
customer.  I tend to buy my phones is Asia or Europe because they are
unlocked and usually not crippled.  T-Mobile in particular likes to
artificially limit their phones.  For example, they will limit SMS messages
to say 30 characters when that is not the technological limit.  My theory is
they do this to increase the number text messages sent so they can get you
to buy a more expensive SMS plan or charge you the 10 cents per message
overage charge.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:07 PM, feydreva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,

 I do have almost the same question...

 I live in US, but I m european, and goes back there very often, plan on
 comming back to europe in less than a year

 I am with T-mobile, and from what I heard/read, T-mobile in US  is
 mainly 1900 Mhz.
 So, I i have a 1900/900 phone in US, will I really suffer from not
 having the 850 Mhz ?
 Does T-mobile US really uses the 850 Mhz

 Openmoko really need to be a Quad-band phone
 Is there any plans for it ?

 Regards
 Philippe

 On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 07:28 -0500, Adam Hough wrote:
  On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 04:02 -0700, Ajit Natarajan wrote:
   Hello,
  
   A question from a cell phone newbie.
  
   I understand that the Freerunner will come in two varieties: 850MHz
 and
   900MHz.  I live in the Silicon Valley in California.  My work zip is
   95014 (Cupertino) and my home zip is 95008 (Campbell).  In and around
   these areas is where I expect to be most of the time.
  
   Should I get the 850MHz version phone or the 900MHz?
  
   Which would be the better provider for this area: ATT or TMobile?
  
   If I should RTFM, please send me a pointer to where I should look to
 get
   my answers.
  
   Thanks!
  
   Ajit
  
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  Most likely you want to get the 850Mhz version because as far as I know
  there is no 900Mhz GSM frequency band in use in the US.
 
  http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml
 
 


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Re: Price of the Freerunner published?

2008-03-21 Thread Lowell Higley
Having lived in the US and Europe...

1) We usually do pay shipping from China.  It's usually built into the cost
of the product so it's hard to say exactly what it is.  I would guess less
than $10 a unit.
2) We do not have VAT in the US.  Closest thing we have to it is sales tax.
Most states have a sales tax rate of about 7 to 8 % (not 19) while some
states like Oregon have no sales tax.  Sales tax is ONLY charged when the
product is sold to the consumer, not every time it changes hands getting to
market. Also, if you are a resident of one state and purchase via mail
(post) and have it shipped to your state and the reseller has no offices in
your state, you do not have to pay your state's or the reseller's state
sales tax.  So I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, if I buy the Freerunner via post
from a reseller in Arizona and that reseller does not have an office/store
in Nevada, I pay no sales tax... just shipping (which sometimes can be more
than tax.)
3) The only state I know of that has state mandated recycling/environmental
fees is California.  The fee  is usually assessed on items that have a
battery or could be hazardous if disposed of incorrectly (LCD monitors and
TV's for example.)
6) I believe that for a product to be sold in the US, the manufacturer must
meet certain warranty requirements.  I haven't dealt with this in over 10
years but my memory tells me that the only cost a reseller is obligated to
incur is for shipping products back to the manufacturer for service.  I'm
sure that may vary by state and that laws have more than likely changed in
the last 10 years.

Hope that helps.

Lowell


On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Vincent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:40 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Since nobody seems to realize it, I guess I have to explain this.
  1. Even the distributor has to pay shipping
  2. 19% VAT in germany
  3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe
  4. 2 years warranty in germany
  5. The dollar-euro change will not always remain nearby 1.60$/1€
  6. People who handle the shipping and warranty in germany, do you think
  they can work for free?
 
  Don't get me wrong, I also like to get products cheap and not too
  expensive, but nobody can really expect to get the device for 285 euro from
  a resaler - you have to pay the 19% even if you import by yourself (the 19%
  are also on the shipping fees).
 
 
 
 Regarding points 1, 2, 3 and 6 - doesn't the US have something similar?
 Regarding 5 - shouldn't the prices be according to current exchange rates?
 Isn't that the whole point of exchange rates?

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Re: Go Phone without the phone

2008-03-10 Thread Lowell Higley
You can buy a Go Phone SIM card ($25, I think) at any ATT store operated by
corporate (resellers are generally useless in anything out of the norm.)

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,

 Is there a way to subscribe to ATT Go Phone in the U.S. without
 purchasing one of their phones?  Their web site at http://gophone.com
 offers a three step process.  The second step requires selecting one of
 their phones.

 If I purchase a Neo, how would I opt for a Go Phone deal?

 Thanks.

 Ajit


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